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Getting Misogyny, Racism and Homophobia Out of Gaming

Soulskill posted about 7 months ago | from the can't-we-all-just-get-along dept.

Games 704

An anonymous reader writes "A central theme for several talks at this week's Game Developers Conference has been how to deal with the abuse generated by a small segment of gamers. BioWare's Manveer Heir says he wants the industry to stop being scared of challenging the most outspoken and vituperative members of the gaming community. His GDC talk focused on 'misogyny, sexism, racism, ethnocentrism, nationalism, ageism, ableism, homophobia, transphobia, queerphobia and other types of social injustice.' He said, 'We should use the ability of our medium to show players the issues first-hand, or give them a unique understanding of the issues and complexities by crafting game mechanics along with narrative components that result in dynamics of play that create meaning for the player in ways that other media isn't capable of.' Meanwhile, Adam Orth, who became the center of an internet hatestorm last year after an offhand comment about always-online DRM, said game developers should make an effort to encourage their playerbase to behave in a more civilized manner."

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Disable player chat (5, Funny)

ackthpt (218170) | about 7 months ago | (#46547417)

That's the quickest way.

Re:Disable player chat (1)

JustNiz (692889) | about 7 months ago | (#46547445)

He's talking about the messages baked into the game by the developer, not those from the interactions with other players. He's also not limiting his comments to multi player games.

Re:Disable player chat (1, Insightful)

buraco_espinhoso (3578311) | about 7 months ago | (#46547501)

Sound more like feminist victimization rehashed...

Re:Disable player chat (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | about 7 months ago | (#46547623)

Because, you know, being part of a movement looking to improve the rights of historically opressed groups makes their arguments crap.

Are you kidding? You do know that feminism isn't about hating on men or trying to mooch off society right? Evidently you don't.

Re:Disable player chat (3, Informative)

MouseTheLuckyDog (2752443) | about 7 months ago | (#46547717)

You do know that feminism isn't about hating on men or trying to mooch off society right? Evidently you don't.

Well that is because there is empirical evidence to the contrary.

Re:Disable player chat (5, Insightful)

sideslash (1865434) | about 7 months ago | (#46547719)

You do know that feminism isn't about hating on men or trying to mooch off society right? Evidently you don't.

Depends on which feminists you are talking about. Are you really unaware of the wide spectrum of activism that falls under the term "feminism"?

Re:Disable player chat (4, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about 7 months ago | (#46547731)

"Because, you know, being part of a movement looking to improve the rights of historically opressed groups makes their arguments crap."

Yes, actually, in practice it does. At some point they go beyond improvement, then to parody, then to active harm of others. Too many groups keep going long after the problem is solved, and seek to create problems where there are none so they can be "solved" - usually by force.

Re:Disable player chat (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | about 7 months ago | (#46547815)

You mean parity, but feminism has indeed reached parody.

Re:Disable player chat (4, Insightful)

buraco_espinhoso (3578311) | about 7 months ago | (#46547861)

Yeah communism is all about equality too. Textbook "isms" aren't the same as in practice "isms". For starters if they really mean equality they should start by changing the name. It doesn't help if even your name is biased.

Re:Disable player chat (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 7 months ago | (#46547751)

Now you're just being racist and homophobic.

ya screw the fucking players (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 7 months ago | (#46547531)

ya screw people by having to put up with chats that are disgusting , worry about some clever racist bullshit.....
ya ok....lame

Re:Disable player chat (4, Insightful)

Penguinisto (415985) | about 7 months ago | (#46547541)

Down that path lies perdition. I'll explain:

The moment you start "cleaning up" the design and atmosphere of a game, you open the door to censorship, even if self-imposed.

While ordinarily clearing such things out of a given game is, on the surface, a laudable goal, there's one great big problem: There is no objective definition and delineation of terms like "mysogyny", "racism", or "homophobia". I have seen people called "racist" point-blank because they disagreed with the president's policies, or called "homophobic" because they believe homosexual activity to be a moral wrong (though not a crime, or cause to hate someone, or etc).

Given this, first, okay, you clear out the obvious stuff. But then some loudmouthed political action group starts squealing about things which kinda-sorta-might-count, but likely don't. Next thing you know, you're having to nerf the game entirely, and are stuck with an ever-decreasing list of genres, or wildly inaccurate ones just to satisfy the perpetually-offended.

Screw it - let the market decide: If a game is truly offensive, word will get out and it won't be bought, leading to its failure. No one is forcing anyone to buy a given game, FFS.

PS: (3, Insightful)

Penguinisto (415985) | about 7 months ago | (#46547559)

Seriously - would anyone have even bothered with titles like DOAX or Duke Nuke'Em if it didn't have the content it had?

They both sold like effing mad... I'll leave it up to the reader to decide why they think that is.

huh? (2, Insightful)

Fwipp (1473271) | about 7 months ago | (#46547585)

Yes, the "market" is going to magically erase misogyny in gaming, because here's these games that sold super well for being misogynist.

Re:huh? (5, Insightful)

Penguinisto (415985) | about 7 months ago | (#46547603)

...neither of them stack up to "Leisure Suit Larry". Funny thing is, I know of more women who bought that particular game then men, mostly because it was funnier than hell.

But then, the ladies in question weren't overly-sensitive professional victims, either.

Re:huh? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 7 months ago | (#46547839)

So because some games sold well for being misogynist, it follows that any game with a chat/communication is okay to be misogynistic? Sounds misogynistic in general to me.

Re:Disable player chat (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 7 months ago | (#46547659)

You know, censorship and not denegrating half your customer base could potentially be different things. Also, the 'market' doesn't erase social problems. If the only games you can buy are full of mysogyny (which they are), then you either have to give up games or play the mysogynistic games. Since women are people too, they like games, and will buy them despite the lack of female characters who aren't sexualized and defined entirely by their gender.

Re:Disable player chat (2, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | about 7 months ago | (#46547567)

Heir’s argument went on to debunk studies which claim that games with female protagonists are doomed to have poor sales. He said that he believes such studies, including one which Polygon’s Ben Kuchera published during his time writing for the now defunct Penny Arcade Report, rely on "cherry-picked, inconclusive data."

"When a game starring a woman comes out," Heir said, "the marketing and the development spends are simply less, which can overall impact the quality of the game and [its] success, which skews the numbers in the negative."

Screw this. If there's a woman in the game, she better be hot or I'm not buying the game. These guys are selling fantasy. I want my fantasy hot and sexy, otherwise I'll go watch porn and not bother with the stupid game play, or obnoxious time-sink quests or the obnoxious early teen goofs who get off on being jerks. My life is full of more than enough reality, I want to buy some misogyny and sexism, not some PC-BS. This is what keeps me sane and provides a catharsis so I don't do this stuff in real life.

Re:Disable player chat (2, Insightful)

ackthpt (218170) | about 7 months ago | (#46547631)

He's talking about the messages baked into the game by the developer, not those from the interactions with other players. He's also not limiting his comments to multi player games.

How about we just play a bunch of movies and commercials from the good ol' days (1950's and before) where this sort of stuff was the norm.

look kids, a woman, and see how happy she is with a new vacuum cleaner!

Re:Disable player chat (4, Funny)

Simonetta (207550) | about 7 months ago | (#46547715)

" His GDC talk focused on 'misogyny, sexism, racism, ethnocentrism, nationalism, ageism, ableism, homophobia, transphobia, queerphobia and other types of social injustice.' "

      Boy, this one is a challenge. Wish I had Will Shortz here to help. But I'll do the best I can:
Capital Crime: Example in a game comment:
misogyny You dumb fuck, you fight like a girl
sexism You dumb chick, you don't fight worth a fuck
racism You fight like a white boy.
ethnocentrism You fight like a French white boy.
    nationalism You fight like a French white boy. USA, fuckin' A!
  ageism You fight like an old French white boy. USA, fuckin' A!
ableism You fight like an old French white boy in a wheelchair. USA, fuckin' A! ,
homophobia, You fight like an old French faggot white boy in a wheelchair. USA, fuckin' A! ,
  transphobia You fight like an old French faggot white boy in a wheelchair who dropped her dick on the floor. USA, fuckin' A!
  queerphobia You fight like an old French faggot white boy in a wheelchair who dropped her dick in his boyfriend's asshole. USA, fuckin' A!

Did I miss anything?

look at the WII (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 7 months ago | (#46547419)

a game or console that brings people together will ultimately be more successful than one that doesn't

Not isms or phobias (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 7 months ago | (#46547433)

We don't need new fancy words for being an asshole.
Even if none of the listed identity groups were involved, these gamers would still be rude jerks to other people.

Re: Not isms or phobias (5, Insightful)

Fwipp (1473271) | about 7 months ago | (#46547485)

It's not so much *who* they're rude toward (everyone), so much as the *way* in which they're rude.

There's a big difference between "You suck at this game" and "You play like a girl," to use the most tame example I can think of. Putting down players by implying that they're $category, using hateful slurs, only propagates the idea that $category is not a desirable thing to be. Not only are they hurting the player they're insulting, but any person in $category that is in the same game; as well as teaching the non-$category people that this is an acceptable way to act.

Re: Not isms or phobias (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 7 months ago | (#46547663)

You missed the point "You play like a girl" is mysoginistic (implies women can't play). Most games are a competition where my ammusement is predicated on someone else sitting most of the round out. This is not a comunal feel-good space. if you want tame conversation and polite comments, i recomend you join a knitting circle.

Re: Not isms or phobias (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 7 months ago | (#46547709)

What an enlightening view into the minds of the assholes under discussion.
These people game because the environment still allows them to indulge these anti-human urges.

Re: Not isms or phobias (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 7 months ago | (#46547765)

Competition and one-upmanship are VERY much human urges.
just because you don't like something doesn't make it unnatural.

Human urges (0)

Fwipp (1473271) | about 7 months ago | (#46547829)

It's kinda telling that, for you, "competition" has to include shitting on people who aren't even involved, or you won't enjoy it.

Re: Not isms or phobias (1)

Kjella (173770) | about 7 months ago | (#46547729)

It's not so much *who* they're rude toward (everyone), so much as the *way* in which they're rude. There's a big difference between "You suck at this game" and "You play like a girl," to use the most tame example I can think of. Putting down players by implying that they're $category, using hateful slurs, only propagates the idea that $category is not a desirable thing to be. Not only are they hurting the player they're insulting, but any person in $category that is in the same game; as well as teaching the non-$category people that this is an acceptable way to act.

Well, bullies like to punch where it hurts and where you have the least chance to defend yourself. I don't think bullies really have anything in particular against people with glasses or freckles or red hair but they'll still latch onto anything that makes you different and an outsider. It's a variation of trolling where taunting a woman into a feminist rage is a victory. It can be amazingly much more insulting if you use an implied inferiority like "Hey, not bad... for [a woman/an old man/racial slur]" than "You suck", it's like you weren't my equal to begin with so the results were already given. It's also compounded by the fact that we're not equal - we say "you fight like a girl" because in a fist fight to the death all other things equal I'd much rather fight a girl or an old man than a young male. I'm old enough to have to admit a younger me would probably kick my ass.

Don't project childish malleability on others. (0)

Oligonicella (659917) | about 7 months ago | (#46547831)

"Not only are they hurting the player they're insulting..." Actually, no. They're causing phantom pain and grief in other people who feel the need to stand up for those who most likely don't give a shit because they want to appear morally superior. And, no a second time. They're not teaching anyone anything other than they're douches.

Re:Not isms or phobias (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 7 months ago | (#46547863)

Fuck you, dumbass!

"phobia" is a misnomer (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 7 months ago | (#46547443)

Yeah, like the subject says: "phobia" is a misnomer.

Wrong Subsection (0, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about 7 months ago | (#46547447)

The small sub-section of intolerant gamers doesn't need to go.

The small sub-section of Professional Victims who love to always complain should take a hike for once.

Re:Wrong Subsection (2)

kruach aum (1934852) | about 7 months ago | (#46547461)

It would be nice if they both killed each other, Braveheart-style.

Re:Wrong Subsection (0, Flamebait)

MrEricSir (398214) | about 7 months ago | (#46547477)

The small sub-section of Professional Victims who love to always complain should take a hike for once.

It's almost like there's a reason some people are victimized more than others. But no, let's blame the victims instead of the people causing the harm, because it's easier to be an Internet Contrarian (TM) than to actually think about the issues.

Re:Wrong Subsection (1)

kruach aum (1934852) | about 7 months ago | (#46547515)

I think before you continue your tour of righteous internet justice you should learn to read, and also to understand how an argument works. AC is not blaming real victims, AC is not exonerating bigots, and being an Internet Contrarian and Thinking are not tasks that are either harder or easier than the other.

Re:Wrong Subsection (-1)

MrEricSir (398214) | about 7 months ago | (#46547779)

Oh, I understand how argument works -- AC is dragging out the old argument that we don't need to listen to someone's complaints because they're victimized more than other people. It's the same tired excuse that defenders of biggots have always relied on.

Maybe if you spent a little less time being condescending ass on the internet, you'd notice that this pattern is neither new nor a valid argument.

Re:Wrong Subsection (1)

Oligonicella (659917) | about 7 months ago | (#46547867)

Missed it twice in a row. Kind of like your on-display morality here, the people referenced aren't actually victims. They said it very plainly, you just missed it twice on purpose.

Re:Wrong Subsection (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 7 months ago | (#46547887)

I think before you continue your tour of righteous internet justice you should learn to read, and also to understand how an argument works.

Understanding grammar is a real necessity for understanding the positions in a debate:

AC is not blaming real victims,

The small sub-section of Professional Victims who love to always complain should take a hike for once.

When you remove the White Knights from the equation, the remainder of the Professional Victim lobby is indeed made up of a vast majority of real victims. Thus, the AC is blaming real victims that he does not actually believe are victims regardless of the reality of the situation.

AC is not exonerating bigots,

The small sub-section of intolerant gamers doesn't need to go.

That's exonerating bigots. This isn't an argument that intolerant gamers are still bad and need to be dealt with. This is an argument that intolerant gamers are fine and can stay as intolerant as they are. Intolerant gamers absolutely do need to go.

and being an Internet Contrarian and Thinking are not tasks that are either harder or easier than the other.

I think before you continue your tour of righteous internet justice you should learn to read, and also to understand how an argument works.

Thinking is indeed hard for many people on the internet. Internet Contrarianism is based around having a very strong, emotionally-based knee-jerk reaction against something. It is not based around thinking, which, as you noted, is not the same thing. Thinking involves being able to rationally think through your argument, and in a forum where you can delay a reply you also have the capability to consider what you're saying and how you're saying it, allowing you to change your wording to something that isn't so easily attacked.

Re:Wrong Subsection (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 7 months ago | (#46547881)

I don't like getting hit on and touched by men. So, I don't go to gay clubs. Am I missing out on the latest dubstep? Maybe. Do I stand around and picket outside because I'm the center of the universe and everyone else has to conform to me? NO, that's a professional victim. A group of like minded people has chosen to gather in a particular space. If you're not of like mind, kindly go do something else, everyone else would like to go back to buttfucking.

Re:Wrong Subsection (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 7 months ago | (#46547499)

The article is talking more about misogyny and racism built into the fabric of nearly all modern video games. Secondly, just because YOU don't feel harassed and uncomfortable in a gaming environment doesn't give you the right to decide what should make other people feel that way.

Re:Wrong Subsection (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 7 months ago | (#46547657)

Secondly, just because YOU don't feel harassed and uncomfortable in a gaming environment doesn't give you the right to decide what should make other people feel that way.

Just because YOU DO feel harassed and uncomfortable in a gaming environment doesn't give you the right to decide what should make other people feel that way.

Re:Wrong Subsection (1)

pla (258480) | about 7 months ago | (#46547785)

Secondly, just because YOU don't feel harassed and uncomfortable in a gaming environment doesn't give you the right to decide what should make other people feel that way.

Except yeah, it kinda does. Because I will pay for games like Duke Nukem, DoA, or Bayonetta - And thus, the publishers will make more like them.

You, for your part, can choose not to pay for them, and instead buy pablum like Candy Crush, Bejeweled, or Angry Birds.

See how the free market works? I buy the games I like, and don't get offended; you buy the games you like, and don't get offended. And most importantly, our two tastes need have nothing in common for us both to remain perfectly happy playing.

So right back atcha, Ms. Gore - Just because YOU feel harassed and uncomfortable in a gaming environment doesn't give you the right to decide that other people can't play and enjoy that same game.

Re:Wrong Subsection (1)

Oligonicella (659917) | about 7 months ago | (#46547875)

That you must blatantly exaggerate the situation in games just shows how little ground you stand on.

Re: Wrong Subsection (1)

Scowler (667000) | about 7 months ago | (#46547513)

Seems like a lot of overlap exists between those two groups. From what I've seen, most bigots also spend a lot of time whining.

Never gonna happen (3, Insightful)

kruach aum (1934852) | about 7 months ago | (#46547451)

Haters gonna hate. Bigots gonna bigot. 13 year olds gonna 13-year-old.

Not until bigotry makes your appendages explode will this ever end. And maybe not even then.

Re:Never gonna happen (1)

maz2331 (1104901) | about 7 months ago | (#46547583)

Various social engineers have been trying for decades to change human nature. It hasn't worked in the past and it won't work in the future any better than attempting to change cats into vegans would. Even if they manage to suppress the expression of the thoughts in one place, it just pops up elsewhere, or worse, festers into a sudden explosion of rage.

Yes, it's gonna happen (3, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about 7 months ago | (#46547621)

The goal isn't to eradicate bigotry, but to lessen it as much as we can. By that measure we can, and we have succeeded. Yes, there will always be more work to do. But, overall, the world is a better place today than it was centuries ago if you are a woman, racial minority, and/or LGBT. The question is not "can we create a utopia." Obviously not. But can we make the world better than it is today? Yes, absolutely.

How? We do it by ignoring comments like yours, and working at it anyway. Your comment isn't just pessimistic, it's oppressive. It strengthens the status quo. I'm sure you have good intentions and don't outwardly hate people. I don't think you're a bigot, but you're standing in the way of progress by trying to discourage people from even attempting to improve the world. Please don't do that.

Re:Never gonna happen (1)

R3d M3rcury (871886) | about 7 months ago | (#46547637)

Not until bigotry makes your appendages explode will this ever end.

Well, it is a game...

"There's some faggot lurker on pad 3."
(*BOOM*) Player's arm explodes.

Even better if you're playing with a bunch of Brits.

"Hey, enemy player guy! What do you brits call cigarettes?"
"Fags."
(*BOOM*) Enemy player guy's leg explodes.
"Ha ha!"

Re:Never gonna happen (1)

Bill, Shooter of Bul (629286) | about 7 months ago | (#46547679)

Now that's a good idea. Use voice recognition, and punish them in game.

Re:Never gonna happen (1)

SuperKendall (25149) | about 7 months ago | (#46547753)

It seems like a good idea, until you realize that they will use it for Griefing - they will just run up next to you then yell the forbidden word as they give you a death hug and the satellite laser (or whatever) strikes them - and you.

Or just when you are about to kill them they will issue the word and "escape".

There are lots of ways to abuse a punishment system to those that are truly warped, and just looking to abuse the system in whatever way is possible.

Reality says otherwise (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 7 months ago | (#46547677)

Having met a reformed neo-nazi skinhead, in the flesh, I can personally tell you that people do change. I'm not saying that gaming environments can do it alone, but there are plenty of opportunities to influence people by the construction of virtual environments within games. Challenging people to grow out of violent, simplistic gaming models toward an appreciation for something 'better' would be more difficult for game designers but not imposssible.

Linking in-game environments to positive real world complex systems would be a good start, but since you can't sanitize a virtual environment from the ugly extrenalities of culture, it would be challenge to show participants that their behavior could have positive outcomes without preaching some form of gospel, but I'd love to see some enterprizing leadship try.

Standard response to "that's gay": (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 7 months ago | (#46547471)

"Don't say 'gay', say 'teen'. That is so teen."

Re:Standard response to "that's gay": (2)

kruach aum (1934852) | about 7 months ago | (#46547475)

Ageist

Re:Standard response to "that's gay": (1)

edmudama (155475) | about 7 months ago | (#46547739)

In the US it's legal to age discriminate against anyone under 40.

Re:Standard response to "that's gay": (2)

sexconker (1179573) | about 7 months ago | (#46547789)

In the US it's legal to age discriminate against anyone under 40.

I've always found it ridiculous that our anti-ageist laws were themselves ageist.

Re:Standard response to "that's gay": (3, Funny)

Stormy Dragon (800799) | about 7 months ago | (#46547825)

I've found an effective way of dealing with homophobia online is to start flirting with them. They HATE when you do that.

I've a cure (3)

zakeria (1031430) | about 7 months ago | (#46547497)

it's called Stoicism

Gaming for more than thirty years & never seen (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 7 months ago | (#46547509)

I started on a Coleco system in the 1980s. Progressed to a C64, and soon had nintendos, PC systems and mainstream consoles coming out my ears. In 32 years of gaming both online and offline: I'm sorry, but I just don't see this mythical mysogynist racist homophobic culture claimed to be ruining the experience.

Gaming is an emotional experience and in the middle of that experience shit falls out of people's mouths and they say or type things they wouldn't elsewhere. That's just part of being human. If you find yourself being offended by it then you should probably check your assumptions about the other person more than their actions.

If I can 'cope' with it for 32 years and it's not bothered me in the slightest, then there's no definable absolute problem with culture. It's those who're offended who are choosing to be offended.

oh? (1)

Fwipp (1473271) | about 7 months ago | (#46547521)

"Billy, you're a fucking idiot! What, I don't see anything wrong with that statement, it doesn't offend *me,* my name's Jerry - for God's sake, Billy, quit CRYING."

Re:Gaming for more than thirty years & never s (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 7 months ago | (#46547703)

Have you ever been tested for sociopathic tendincies?

Remove fear labeling to start objective discussion (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about 7 months ago | (#46547519)

We don't call it "race-phobia" or "men-phobia" or "women-phobia", the labelling of disagreeing with an accusation of fear (homo-phobia) does not allow the conversation to begin on a level of mutual respect, where people merely have disagreements on personal behavior.

Race and gender are not behavioral, but physiological facts, and therefore subjective debates easily point out a subject bias against an unchangeable reality. But it seems _any_ disagreement with homosexuality is instantly labeled as "hate", and I propose it's partly because of the fear label associated with disagreement.

No one expects a racist Nazi to love black people, but we absolutely expect them not to attack them. And we even enforce free speech laws that allow these people to openly run organizations that support racial superiority.

But with homosexuality it's the reverse, there is a movement to force a belief change and acceptance of another persons beliefs. Without honest objective discourse, emotionally biased labels and arguments will suppress disent that even Nazi's don't suffer under.

This social group (slashdot) espouses scientific disagreement as a basis for learning. I propose we start hearing both sides of the arugment about sexuality objectively, apply the doctrine of tolerance equally and remove the subjective and biased label of "homophobia" to those they merely disent.

I agree (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 7 months ago | (#46547595)

Sometimes I just want something to be non-sexual in all ways, but people insist on bringing homosexuality into it anyway. Come one, just leave some things as non PC non-sexual.

Oh, that's easy (2, Insightful)

Fwipp (1473271) | about 7 months ago | (#46547627)

So, if instead of saying homophobia, I said heterosexism, all my arguments would instantly be valid? Weird that you're hung up on a word you don't understand the meaning of.

We enforce free speech laws that allow the Westboro Baptist Church to protest, don't we? Why is that "the reverse" of protecting racist Nazi's?

Oh, you mean that you want to be able to shit on other people, and face no *social* backlash? That doesn't work for Nazis, either, sorry.

Re:Oh, that's easy (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 7 months ago | (#46547691)

I think you proved the point, as soon as you disagree objectively, people come out and acuse you of hate. Just like you did here.

Extrapolation (2)

Fwipp (1473271) | about 7 months ago | (#46547783)

It's not hard to extrapolate.

If I say "hey, hey, woah, let's check out BOTH SIDES of the evolution argument" - it's not hard to figure out that I don't "believe" in evolution. Just because your literal words sound objective, doesn't mean that they are.

Re:Extrapolation (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 7 months ago | (#46547845)

Nope, you're just a douchenozzle. It's not hard to extrapolate.

Re:Remove fear labeling to start objective discuss (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 7 months ago | (#46547649)

And here we have the classic reverse judo method.

 

Re:Remove fear labeling to start objective discuss (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 7 months ago | (#46547869)

Your point seems... kind of ridiculous.

There is this thing called xenophobia, and it is not the same as racism. You might be afraid of the other gender, and I'm sure that has a name, too.
Anyway, Wikipedia has a detailed article about heterosexism, just as it has for those other words. But unless someone says people identifying as gay should be banned from the game, homophobia is probably a better way to describe it.

What's that strong smell? (1, Insightful)

buraco_espinhoso (3578311) | about 7 months ago | (#46547537)

Do I sense a smell of feminist BS?

Re:What's that strong smell? (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 7 months ago | (#46547639)

SJW bullshit, at any rate.

It's the humanities, and they've come to bully them some nerds.

Re:What's that strong smell? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 7 months ago | (#46547773)

God bless the Internet Aristocrat (http://www.youtube.com/user/InternetAristocrat). He takes on the Social Justice Warriors without being a complete asshole or Internet tough guy. And the SJWs false flagged at least one of his videos in response.

Getting it out of Slashdot (0)

strangeattraction (1058568) | about 7 months ago | (#46547539)

Given the post by anonymous cowards yesterday on the Jessy Jackson article. There are plenty of slashdot readers that can fit into this category. Are they mainly gamers?

Morals & DRM (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about 7 months ago | (#46547545)

I play games for fun, not morals. Your beliefs about a moral actions may not be other's so adding your "correct" action in a game then give rewards for the right" choice is just another way of enforcing your beliefs on others.

For example I believe Homophobia is wrong, I have a right to stop someone else who is hurting another either physically or verbally, But I do not have the right to force the attacker to change his/her views, they are his/her choices and he/she believes them to be right just as he/she doesn't have the right to make me join in.

And everyone I know hates DRM's not for the fact they stop piracy (kinda) but as yet no DRM has been seamless. Frequent disconnects, ridiculous sign-up's (eg making a live account) The inability to access some content offline or even unable to play the game at all offline. We live in a world when you can't always be online, esp if you live in rural area or have bandwidth limitations. So hate about DRM's is completely justified, if you want to stop piracy look at why people pirate games, not some lackluster attempt at stopping them, you won't win, so far every DRM has been breached.

taking the sport out of attacking innocent citizen (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 7 months ago | (#46547549)

unsung veteran hero on at least two continents http://rt.com/usa/occupy-scott-olsen-settlement-433/

arachnophobia (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 7 months ago | (#46547561)

No spiders allowed.

WhatMeWorry!

Bans don't work (2)

Scowler (667000) | about 7 months ago | (#46547579)

If you ban a player for a short interval, it's not enough to dissuade bad behavior. If you choose a long interval, they just join the game under a different player name. In essence, if a player's behavior has already deteriorated to the point of needing a ban, the battle is already lost.

Don't buy it then (3, Insightful)

geekd (14774) | about 7 months ago | (#46547589)

If the content of a videogame offends you, then don't buy it. If enough people don't buy offensive video games, people won't make offensive video games.

Telling other people "you should do this" or "you should not do that" only pisses them off and wastes your time.

Re:Don't buy it then (4, Insightful)

Shados (741919) | about 7 months ago | (#46547611)

This is more about the behavior of the community than the content of the game though.

Re:Don't buy it then (1)

ImprovOmega (744717) | about 7 months ago | (#46547681)

Is this from the same group that gets all up in arms when Christians try to shove their beliefs down other people's throats? How is trying to change the beliefs and mores of the gaming community any different? You're still trying to change who they are to better suit you.

Re:Don't buy it then (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 7 months ago | (#46547797)

You will very few people who disagree with promulgating a morality at all.

It's nuances of the morality itself that matters.

For example, the Christians trying to shove their beliefs down other people's throats? Want to tell people they are despicable for their choice of sex partners, or life partners, for example. Sometimes this is acceptable. Disapproving of pedophiles and rapists is generally supported. When it comes to same-sex or even inter-race relationships, that is where there is conflict.

Re:Don't buy it then (1)

R3d M3rcury (871886) | about 7 months ago | (#46547683)

As I understand it, it isn't so much the content of the game as those playing it and communicating via it. For example, there may be a game mode in which there is one player versus many. Should the company go to appropriate lengths to make sure people aren't setting up games called "Smear the Queer?"

Re:Don't buy it then (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 7 months ago | (#46547735)

The social "justice" crowd has to have censorship to push their agenda. This is what happens when the humanities gets involved in anything. I'm surprised they haven't started using words like "patriarchy" and accusing random things, like pieces of music in games, or the hard keys of a keyboard, to be rape accessories.

Re:Don't buy it then (1)

Chris Mattern (191822) | about 7 months ago | (#46547835)

I think he's not so concerned about offensive video games as about offensive video gamers, and what the games themselves might be able to do about that.

Getting Misogyny, Racism and Homophobia Out (4, Funny)

Citizen of Earth (569446) | about 7 months ago | (#46547593)

Just delete the humans and you're all set.

"behave in a more civilized manner" (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 7 months ago | (#46547599)

means "being good little goyim for their Jewish masters"...

Whooops! I forgot. We aren't allowed to NAME THE JEW here, are we...

Why are Jews and other Leftists so afraid of free speech? I just can't imagine...

What is shechitah? What is kapporot? What is bris?

Says who? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 7 months ago | (#46547605)

What do you mean gamers are biased against women, homosexuals and non-caucasians?

I'll have you know they're the number one consumers of asian lesbian porn!

Vote with your wallet. (-1, Flamebait)

JustNiz (692889) | about 7 months ago | (#46547617)

I dislike games that feel the need to insult the payers intelligence by just showing unfeasably big breasted women or the "kill the ho with a baseball bat" type of thing, however I will refuse to buy a game that starts pushing some PeeCee political agenda at me too, especially one that is advocating LGBT as an intrinsically socially acceptable attribute or even one to be admired.

"peecee" (2)

Fwipp (1473271) | about 7 months ago | (#46547645)

Yes, saying that an unchangeable characteristic about a person is socially acceptable is too radical for Slashdot.

What's next? Games that say it's "okay" to be black?? Please, free market, save us from this terrible fate!

Re:"peecee" (-1, Troll)

JustNiz (692889) | about 7 months ago | (#46547787)

Yeah OK you got me, I only accidentally included the B there.

That said, there are some of us that legitimately think that being gay is not something to to teach kids to aspire to.

Possibly the wrong approach (1)

Necreia (954727) | about 7 months ago | (#46547625)

While I applaud the idea, it's as unrealistic as "Getting Misogyny, Racism and Homophobia out of the Internet" or "Getting Misogyny, Racism and Homophobia out of books".
 
Games are not like TV Shows, in that there is not a single channel in which consumers get it (like TV Stations). A single person can make a game that becomes popular with tens or hundreds of thousands of people. Combine this with the fact that one group can find content as offensive (She's has a character flaw... misogyny!) while another of the same group can find the alternative equally offensive (All the females in this game are one-dimensional... misogyny!).
 
I also don't see how creativity will flow if all content needs to be impossibly 'appropriate' for all people. For big companies, it's self-correcting anyway: If it's offensive to too many people, the game won't be successful... so at least big companies have interest to make games that sell on the mass market.

Re:Possibly the wrong approach (1)

roc97007 (608802) | about 7 months ago | (#46547699)

And even if somehow all mainstream games are scrubbed clean, wouldn't that open new markets amongst independent game creators? "You won't find any of that perv stuff in Grand Theft Auto XXVII, not much of anything really, except stiffing generic looking taxi drivers. But i know a guy who's writing a game in his basement that you might like..."

where's the fun in that? (4, Interesting)

stenvar (2789879) | about 7 months ago | (#46547633)

Gaming is one of the last bastions where political incorrectness survives. I hope it will stay that way and that gaming won't get invaded by the armies of the politically correct spoilsports. And, yes, I am a minority and a target of some of these "-isms" and "-phobias".

Out of Games 1st (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 7 months ago | (#46547661)

Bioware seems like a rare example of a developer which doesn't incorporate ""isms (at least, not overly), so perhaps the gaming industry can lead by example.
Not to mention, simply removing the offenders doesn't solve shit, said offenders simple move on.
Societiy will never move forward, unless you change their minds, using the same ability which you propose limiting: speech. Otherwise, eventually, you'll help create the next (albeit, slightly smaller) generation of ""isms.

Myogyny? (4, Insightful)

roc97007 (608802) | about 7 months ago | (#46547665)

I wonder, who gets to decide? Does this mean that all game avatars will be wearing grey coveralls like THX1138?

.And how do you resolve the "it's misogynist to have women avatars in combat" and "it's misogynist *not* to have women avatars in combat" groups?

Resolution (1)

Fwipp (1473271) | about 7 months ago | (#46547799)

Easy - the former is only said by people who think women are fragile beings who need protection by big strong men. Or, can you not tell the difference between MRAs and feminists?

It Depends... (1)

IonOtter (629215) | about 7 months ago | (#46547745)

If you're talking shit in the lounge or common area, then you deserve a banhammer right to the forehead. And if you're playing a non-violent or otherwise cooperative game, then nasty epithets really aren't cool.

But combat games? Actually shooting at other player opponents? Nuh-uh. Anything goes, jungle rules and survival of the fittest. If you're hunting other humans, then you should not only expect such nasty talk, but you should desire hearing it. When you've just flung a knife halfway across the map and skewered some n00b in the eyeball, [youtube.com] then hearing them call you a bitch faggot is just icing on the pwncake.

There's also something else to consider? Being a nasty little troll can come with some really horrible, but incredibly spectacular consequences. [pcgamer.com]

What's Important? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 7 months ago | (#46547755)

"But this problem isn't solved with words, it's solved with action," he continued, building to a climax. "It's solved not only with intent but convictions and a little bit of courage. It's solved by fighting, by challenging your team to do something a little deeper and making something that's important to you." - Manveer Heir

The plight of the homosexual is not really important to a heterosexual game developer. The dev's create games that are important to them, and apparently what is important to the devs are caucasian heterosexual male leads, and female supporting staff and their +10 enchanted undergarments.

What he is really saying is, make a game that is important to a small niche audience, and don't be afraid to not make any money off of it. Which, in today's gaming world is a perfectly reasonable thing to do, if anyone decides it is important enough for them to do it.

Why? I do not want dick sucking men in my games! (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 7 months ago | (#46547809)

Getting Misogyny, Racism and Homophobia Out of Gaming. Why!?
I do not want dick sucking men in my games!
I do not want perverts in my game!
Make it optional for faggots and I am OK with this BS.

Races in Videogames? (1, Funny)

HockeyPuck (141947) | about 7 months ago | (#46547837)

In many video games, going back to some of the oldest, there's almost always been multiple races. Heck even Space Invaders had two races. WoW has over a dozen.

If you're going to make a game that involves humans. Which race do you pick? Someone's going to get offended no matter which race you pick.

I play SC2, Terran. There's Zergs and Protoss. Three races right there. Is someone offended that the Terrans appear to be primarily Caucasian? Sure there's a few bit characters that aren't. Why isn't Reynor hispanic, or Jewish or Chinese or Native American or whatever...

Ignore it. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 7 months ago | (#46547851)

The only way to dissuade bad behavior is to tap into a super power hidden deep within the human body called "ignoring something." Most choose not to do so, and now we have the wonderful world we do today.

Everyone wants to feel important, everyone wants to be "in," and they'll gladly suffer humiliation or abuse just to feel like they're a part of something.

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