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Slashdot Asks: Will You Need the Windows XP Black Market?

timothy posted about 8 months ago | from the undead-is-more-like-it dept.

Windows 245

NicknamesAreStupid (1040118) writes "As Whoever57 pointed out, there are some who will still get support for Microsoft Windows XP — the 'haves'. However, most will be the 'have nots.' Anytime you have such market imbalance, there is opportunity. Since Microsoft clearly intends to create a disparity, there will certainly be those who defy it. What will Microsoft do to prevent bootleg patches of XP from being sold to the unwashed masses? How will they stop China from supporting 100 million bootleg XP users? And how easily will it be to crack Microsoft's controls? How big will the Windows XP patch market be?" There are a lot of businesses still on Windows XP; if you work for one of them, will the official end of life spur actually cause you to upgrade? (And if so, to what?)

Sorry! There are no comments related to the filter you selected.

NO (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#46678853)

I'm going to run XP in a VM from Linux. Anytime I get infected, I'll just restore to before the infection.

Re:NO (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#46678893)

Not meny know when they are part of a botnet

Re:NO (4, Funny)

Cryacin (657549) | about 8 months ago | (#46679043)

Arrrrr... Pirate support desk, XP division... What ken I do fer ya matey?

Yes hello, I'm trying to search for a pirate's favourite letter, but nothing's coming up under 'R'.

Yad think it's R but it's really the C.

Re:NO (4, Funny)

rasmusbr (2186518) | about 8 months ago | (#46679387)

Good day Cryacin, my name is John. I'm calling from Windows Service Center to talk to you about a problem with your Windows computer.

I beg your pardon sir?

No, I'm calling from Windows Service Center. We often call Windows users who have Windows computers that have been infect...

No, we are not within cannon range of your "ship"!

Sir, are you sitting in front of your Windows computer right now? It is urgent that you solve your malicious software infection urgently. Can you see a key on your keyboard with a Windows icon on it?

*Sound of distant thunder*

*Sound of glass shattering*

*Sound of wall collapsing*

Sir, we need to speed this up. Just Google "team viewer" and install it on your Windo...

*Sound of screams and cutlasses striking against metal*

Sir, I'm going to have to call you ba.....

*Static*

A Terrific Opportunity (2)

VernonNemitz (581327) | about 8 months ago | (#46679225)

For any scammer who pretends to install an XP patch, but actually installs malware.

Re:A Terrific Opportunity (-1, Troll)

Lumpy (12016) | about 8 months ago | (#46679263)

All of XP patches are malware. XP was at it's most stable before Microsoft started to send out it's "patches"....

pointed out (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#46678865)

there are some who will still get support for Microsoft Windows XP pointed out, there are some who will still get support for Microsoft Windows XP pointed out,

Editing? Anyone? (5, Funny)

horm (2802801) | about 8 months ago | (#46678867)

Seriously? Nobody even bothered to read the first sentence of the submission?

Re:Editing? Anyone? (1)

RaiIGunner (1973954) | about 8 months ago | (#46678913)

timothy can't stay off dailykos long enough to do his "job" here.

Re:Editing? Anyone? (4, Funny)

wonkey_monkey (2592601) | about 8 months ago | (#46679143)

Editing? Anyone?

There ain't no editors and there never was! Now git!

Re:Editing? Anyone? (3, Insightful)

causality (777677) | about 8 months ago | (#46679171)

Seriously? Nobody even bothered to read the first sentence of the submission?

Apparently lots of people did and are also griping about it. Are Slashdot "editors" capable of feeling embarassment?

Back to the discussion...

Since Microsoft clearly intends to create a disparity, there will certainly be those who defy it. What will Microsoft do to prevent bootleg patches of XP from being sold to the unwashed masses? How will they stop China from supporting 100 million bootleg XP users? And how easily will it be to crack Microsoft's controls? How big will the Windows XP patch market be?

Unless these third-party patch vendors are claiming to be Microsoft then they're not in any way "bootleg". If Microsoft no longer wants to do this but someone else does, what's the problem? How would this be different from (i.e. less legitimate than) publishing a device driver, AV suite, or other system-level software?

Do the submitter and "editor" not understand what the word "bootleg" means, or is there a real problem here I'm just not seeing?

Updates more likely to infringe than drivers, AV (2)

tepples (727027) | about 8 months ago | (#46679211)

How would [providing third-party updates to Windows XP components] be different from (i.e. less legitimate than) publishing a device driver, AV suite, or other system-level software?

Device drivers, antivirus suites, and the like don't need to replace Windows system files with fixed versions of the same code to function. Windows updates do. And because they'd be providing versions of the same (Microsoft) code without the permission of the owner of copyright in that code, they would likely infringe* Microsoft's copyright.

* Slashdot posts aren't Legal Advice(tm).

Re:Updates more likely to infringe than drivers, A (3, Interesting)

causality (777677) | about 8 months ago | (#46679319)

How would [providing third-party updates to Windows XP components] be different from (i.e. less legitimate than) publishing a device driver, AV suite, or other system-level software?

Device drivers, antivirus suites, and the like don't need to replace Windows system files with fixed versions of the same code to function. Windows updates do. And because they'd be providing versions of the same (Microsoft) code without the permission of the owner of copyright in that code, they would likely infringe* Microsoft's copyright.

* Slashdot posts aren't Legal Advice(tm).

It wouldn't be possible to provide only a binary patch that contains just the modifications to said files? That would also infringe copyright?

Apple v. Psystar (1)

tepples (727027) | about 8 months ago | (#46679415)

It wouldn't be possible to provide only a binary patch that contains just the modifications to said files? That would also infringe copyright?

That depends on how a particular judge decides to apply precedents related to Apple v. Psystar.

Re:Editing? Anyone? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#46679313)

Here's what you are missing: Someone will leak the patches and they will end up on torrents or the like. People will be able to get these patches without paying for the extra support. You see companies like Oracle suing over stuff like this every few years.

second editor fail in less than 24 hours (1)

RaiIGunner (1973954) | about 8 months ago | (#46678875)

"As Whoever57 pointed out, there are some who will still get support for Microsoft Windows XP pointed out, there are some who will still get support for Microsoft Windows XP — the 'haves'

what on earth does that sentence mean? this is even worse than Timothy's earlier oversight of re-running the same article less than a week after its first run. we know slashdot doesn't pay editors to edit, but could they at least show enough pride in their job to read what they post?

Re:second editor fail in less than 24 hours (3, Insightful)

Rosco P. Coltrane (209368) | about 8 months ago | (#46678933)

what on earth does that sentence mean?

What do you mean what on earth does that sentence mean what on earth does that sentence mean - the haves?

Re:second editor fail in less than 24 hours (3, Funny)

who_stole_my_kidneys (1956012) | about 8 months ago | (#46679029)

I had to read this 3 time to verify that i was not still drunk 3 times to verify drunk that i was still not drunk.

Re:second editor fail in less than 24 hours (4, Insightful)

causality (777677) | about 8 months ago | (#46679187)

"As Whoever57 pointed out, there are some who will still get support for Microsoft Windows XP pointed out, there are some who will still get support for Microsoft Windows XP — the 'haves'

what on earth does that sentence mean? this is even worse than Timothy's earlier oversight of re-running the same article less than a week after its first run. we know slashdot doesn't pay editors to edit, but could they at least show enough pride in their job to read what they post?

This kind of poor quality work is what long ago dissuaded me from ever paying for a Slashdot subscription. I block ads, too, since before my karma level gave me the option of having Slashdot do it for me. That was all before Malda sold out to Dice Holdings. It's not improved since.

Re:second editor fail in less than 24 hours (1)

symbolset (646467) | about 8 months ago | (#46679245)

You don't pay for a subscription to reward the editors. You do it because occasionally someone will say something so insightful you want to review everything else he's ever written here.

Re:second editor fail in less than 24 hours (2)

causality (777677) | about 8 months ago | (#46679329)

You don't pay for a subscription to reward the editors. You do it because occasionally someone will say something so insightful you want to review everything else he's ever written here.

But your payment does reward the company and its staff. There is no way around that. They don't deserve it, their shoddy work hasn't earned it, and no fringe benefit of extra database access is enough to convince me otherwise.

Your value system may vary. I for one was speaking for myself.

Re:second editor fail in less than 24 hours (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#46679343)

We don't need to hear your rationalisations, Slashdot already has a high tolerance for leaches.

Already gone to Linux Mint Cinnamon... (4, Insightful)

CaptainOfSpray (1229754) | about 8 months ago | (#46678899)

Looks like XP, mostly works like XP, closer to XP than Win 8, easier upgrade path than Win 8, lower rate of support calls from friends and family ...and in my experience, it's lighter and faster and more responsive than XP. So, no, I won't be laying out hundreds of pounds/dollars on a new machine or even more hundreds on replacing all the software that will not work on Win 8.

Application and driver compatibility (1)

tepples (727027) | about 8 months ago | (#46678949)

Linux Mint Cinnamon [is] closer to XP than Win 8

But how well does Wine run apps that run on Windows XP? Last time I checked, the iTunes Store client ran on Windows XP but not on Wine. And how well does Wine run applications that control expensive-to-replace peripherals with Windows XP drivers? I imagine one would need ReactOS to run those, as among free operating systems, only ReactOS implements enough NT infrastructure to have any chance of running Windows XP drivers.

Re:Application and driver compatibility (4, Informative)

Zombie Ryushu (803103) | about 8 months ago | (#46679055)

iTunes 11.1.3.8 is listed/rated "Gold" so, yes, iTunes works.

Finally (4, Informative)

tepples (727027) | about 8 months ago | (#46679097)

Then it must have changed very recently: garbage in 1.7.5 (December 2013), gold in 1.7.15 (April 2014) [winehq.org] . I wonder what breaking change Apple will introduce in the next version.

Re:Finally (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#46679161)

I wonder what breaking change Apple will introduce in the next version.

It's iTunes, it breaks constantly.

Re:Finally (1)

tepples (727027) | about 8 months ago | (#46679185)

Except people have good reason to endure such breakage. When browsing YouTube, I find some songs that say "Buy on iTunes, Amazon, or Google Play". Others say "Buy on iTunes". Or are people supposed to fall back to buying shiny discs for songs not sold on Amazon?

Re:Finally (1)

PopeRatzo (965947) | about 8 months ago | (#46679345)

Except people have good reason to endure such breakage.

There are no songs available on iTunes that are unavailable elsewhere.

Re:Finally (1)

tepples (727027) | about 8 months ago | (#46679379)

There are no songs available on iTunes that are unavailable elsewhere.

For viewers in the United States, the lyrics video for "Bück dich" by Rammstein [youtube.com] lists only iTunes. Granted, you can buy the whole album on a shiny disc [amazon.com] , or you can break the law [wikipedia.org] and risk getting caught [wikipedia.org] . Which of those is what you meant?

Re:Application and driver compatibility (2)

TheRealMindChild (743925) | about 8 months ago | (#46679221)

The question that should be asked, does WINE support the custom driver for a CNC machine that is still in operation? The one off device in some back government office? The answer is no.

Re:Application and driver compatibility (1)

tepples (727027) | about 8 months ago | (#46679287)

And how well does Wine run applications that control expensive-to-replace peripherals

does WINE support the custom driver for a CNC machine that is still in operation? The one off device in some back government office?

That's sort of what I was getting at. Wine can't, seeing as it doesn't aim for driver compatibility. ReactOS has more potential in this department.

Re:Application and driver compatibility (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#46679411)

does WINE support the custom driver for a CNC machine that is still in operation? The one off device in some back government office?

That's sort of what I was getting at. Wine can't, seeing as it doesn't aim for driver compatibility. ReactOS has more potential in this department.

He keeps using that word, "support". I do not think it means what you think it means.

Re:Application and driver compatibility (1)

tepples (727027) | about 8 months ago | (#46679607)

Yes, I too have seen The Princess Bride. But with that out of the way, please explain what you think "support" means, and what you think I think it means.

Re:Application and driver compatibility (1)

Lumpy (12016) | about 8 months ago | (#46679311)

Why do you need to "update" the CNC machine's OS? what moron has it on the network with internet access? I know of CNC machines that are running windows 95. and SHOCKER.... they work just fine without any support from microsoft.

Re:Application and driver compatibility (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#46679517)

Is that computer hooked up to ANY network? Yes? Then you're IT people are idiots. Pull the ethernet card, turn off wireless, and use it until it breaks (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Year_2038_problem). Windows uses 1980 instead of 1970, maybe their's is 2048 problem? Either way, you've got decades until a standalone winxp machine needs to be upgraded.

Re:Application and driver compatibility (2, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#46679299)

Linux has a Dramatically better hardware support than XP,Vista,7 or 8 has combined. Only a fool that knows nothing of linux would ask the "expensive to replace peripherals" raging bullshit line not knowing that linux has such better hardware support than Windows, that many times a device actually works BETTER under linux.

But don't let facts like that slow down your bullshit tirade.... please continue... I so would love to hear more of your "superior race" Mein Furor... We all know that you are too stupid to actually research the crap that spews forth out of your mouth... and we all really love the flow of foamy shit that daily comes from your mouth as "advice" or passed off as "knowledge" by you.

Better for some, perhaps most, but not all (4, Informative)

tepples (727027) | about 8 months ago | (#46679357)

Linux has a Dramatically better hardware support than XP,Vista,7 or 8 has combined.

Dramatically better on the whole? Perhaps. Better for every particular device? Not necessarily. There are probably plenty of edge cases that have an XP driver and no Linux driver at all. Does SANE support the Microtek ScanMaker 4850 flatbed scanner yet? It appears not [sane-project.org] .

Re:Already gone to Linux Mint Cinnamon... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#46678987)

Supports hardly any software that XP&8 support.

Eh, I'll just use the NHS (&co.) leaks of MS patches. As far as I'm concerned, XP doesn't go out of support for at least a year - it's just that MS isn't directly delivering updates to everyone any more.

Re:Already gone to Linux Mint Cinnamon... (4, Informative)

MrBigInThePants (624986) | about 8 months ago | (#46679001)

Same experience here.

Set up a "multimedia desktop" for my parents in their lounge. The desktop startup/response time of the OS is orders of magnitude faster than any other computer in our family and yet it is on the oldest and slowest hardware. Anything higher than windows XP ran like an absolute dog on this machine - in fact not really usable at all due to lack of memory etc.

Since it is only used for browsing and multimedia they don't even notice the subtle differences.

The fact that they are complete computer novices who would never try to tinker with any admin options actually works in their favour. Most of the apps use are essentially"platforms" in that the software works the same on both OS's.

Installation was also stupidly easy. The apps were free.

Pretty much the only "negative" was that I had to google some alternative apps for the ones I would use on windows as there was not a linux version - and that's just being picky.

This wont be the solution for everyone (due to app support etc) but I seriously suggest it to anyone with an XP machine that does not want to hope on the M$ upgrade train just for the sake of it.

I think this option will be overlooked by many due to historical difficulties - that PR baggage is hard to shake it seems.

Re:Already gone to Linux Mint Cinnamon... (2)

Irate Engineer (2814313) | about 8 months ago | (#46679241)

Ditto on this, and I was a Linux skeptic for a while after my first painful experiences trying to work with SUSELinux and Debian several years ago.

There is hardly any learning curve required to go from XP to Mint. Everything works pretty much right out of the box. Getting wireless up was easy and I had my printer and scanner up and running in 15 minutes after a brief search for drivers. I was pretty much back to business as usual on my netbook about 30 minutes after overwriting XP with Mint. LibreOffice works nicely with my existing spreadsheets and documents.

If you have mission-critical software that just needs Windows, well, that is another story. But if you or someone you know has a home machine that they use just for browsing, spreadsheet and document applications, Linux Mint is the way to go.

Re-buying hardware (1)

tepples (727027) | about 8 months ago | (#46679321)

I had my printer and scanner up and running in 15 minutes after a brief search for drivers.

I got printing and scanning working on Linux, but I needed to replace my existing printer and scanner with an HP Officejet 4500 because the page for my old scanner on the SANE project's web site had said "unsupported" for years. It must be even worse for companies that will need to replace a multi-thousand-dollar CNC mill. They'll probably just need to air gap the machine that controls it and continue to run unsupported XP.

Re:Already gone to Linux Mint Cinnamon... (1)

MAXOMENOS (9802) | about 8 months ago | (#46679413)

With all due respect, "looks and feels like XP" only gets you so far. If you're a home user, that's fine as long as you don't want to play PC games, or use most Windows software like Quickbooks. If you're an office user, that's fine as long as you don't need to continue to run Visual Basic 6 (yes, really) for critical business applications.

Where I work, we need to run legacy apps for the foreseeable future. So we're migrating, somewhat painfully, to Windows 7. Sure, there's plenty of Linux that can do 90% of what we need to do. That last 10% is a bitch.

Does anyone edit these posts? (-1, Redundant)

PHPNerd (1039992) | about 8 months ago | (#46678905)

What does "As Whoever57 pointed out, there are some who will still get support for Microsoft Windows XP pointed out, there are some who will still get support for Microsoft Windows XP" mean?? Who's editing these stories?

Re:Does anyone edit these posts? (0)

sumdumass (711423) | about 8 months ago | (#46679203)

It means his control c got stuck and pasted twice.

I imagine this happened because the keys got sticky from a couple one handed sessions in the middle of the night which might also explain the lack of attention on the actual post and the lapse in editing.

I've heard stories about people putting their keyboards in the dishwasher to clean them but I'm not sure I would ever want to eat at the editors house after that unless it was a BBQ and we used paper plates.

Air-gapped systems? (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#46678907)

Any idea how many of these XP systems are actually air-gapped and offline? If they're not connected to anything and require local-access to hack, what point is there really to upgrade?

How much does it cost to upgrade? (3, Interesting)

viperidaenz (2515578) | about 8 months ago | (#46678911)

If UK govt paid $9M for 12 months, how much does it cost to upgrade 680,000 PC's? A lot of them will probably need new hardware.
At a pure guess of $500 per PC, including new Office licenses, some new hardware, labour, etc. over 12 months, $9M is only 3% of the total cost. They could invest the upgrade money and make a profit from buying extended support.

Re:How much does it cost to upgrade? (5, Informative)

jonnythan (79727) | about 8 months ago | (#46678941)

It costs a lot more than a new PC to upgrade thousands of PCs. Imaging, deployment, backup/restore processes for the end users is just the beginning. Upgrading dozens, hundreds, or thousands of individual customized applications to be compatible with Windows 7 is an absolute nightmare. I know all about this just from upgrading my relatively small workplace from XP to 7. It was a fight just to get core, mission critical apps to work with IE 9; 10 and 11 are out of the question. Lots of cash to vendors and app support folks, lots of cash to deployment specialists, lots of overtime. Adds up to a LOT of money.

By the way: $9 million over 680,000 PCs is $13 per PC. That's less than we paid per PC to have a contractor come in and physically install new machines at desks, and completely ignores the cost of OS licensing, hardware, support, and the thousands and thousands of man hours the IT department spent with associated tasks.

Re:How much does it cost to upgrade? (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#46678993)

Time to update your software. If it still relies on IE6, you're getting your software from the wrong people.

Re:How much does it cost to upgrade? (1)

mpe (36238) | about 8 months ago | (#46679099)

It costs a lot more than a new PC to upgrade thousands of PCs. Imaging, deployment, backup/restore processes for the end users is just the beginning. Upgrading dozens, hundreds, or thousands of individual customized applications to be compatible with Windows 7 is an absolute nightmare. I know all about this just from upgrading my relatively small workplace from XP to 7. It was a fight just to get core, mission critical apps to work with IE 9; 10 and 11 are out of the question. Lots of cash to vendors and app support folks, lots of cash to deployment specialists, lots of overtime. Adds up to a LOT of money.

XP to 7 (or 8) is really a "migration" than an "upgrade". Depending on a lot of factors it may or may not be the easiest (or cheapest) migration to make.

Re:How much does it cost to upgrade? (2)

wvmarle (1070040) | about 8 months ago | (#46679591)

It was a fight just to get core, mission critical apps to work with IE 9; 10 and 11 are out of the question.

Sounds like time to bite the bullet and write them to use web standards for the user interface (this is obviously a web-app as you use a browser for access - so if you're doing anything more than displaying a user interface and maybe some basic input sanity checking and you're doing something wrong to begin with). As an added bonus this will relieve you of your dependency on IE and Windows, and it would even work on non-Windows systems such as most tablets.

Re:How much does it cost to upgrade? (1)

NJRoadfan (1254248) | about 8 months ago | (#46679605)

How often did they migrate before XP came out? Many offices jumped from NT4 to 2000 to XP in a fairly short period of time. Many places also upgraded from 3.1 to 95 to 98 in a short period of time. In both of those cases, it likely involved hardware replacement too.

Re:How much does it cost to upgrade? (1)

NJRoadfan (1254248) | about 8 months ago | (#46679589)

The joke is likely on them for paying. Microsoft was going to patch XP until 2019 anyway via extended support for Windows Embedded 2009.

If one were to take over the world using XP (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#46678929)

SkyNet Couldn't have it any more easier .... !

I guarantee... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#46678939)

I guarantee in writing, or nothing of value returned, the MS will restart support for XP.
This is the first OS that Bill got mostly right (took a couple of SPs).

But seriously, the adoption of XP is very deep and it will probably take another decade
to break from depending on it. Many embedded systems, POS terminals rely on it to
operate. Especially retail, where any upgrade offers absolutely no benefit - XP works fine.

Many shops use the "free" visual studio for their XP development. If MS doesn't continue
support as they have in the past, yes, users will upgrade away from MS products and
possibly linux. It only takes one big name to do it first, then everybody else follows.
Once that critical mass is reached, MS will, almost overnight, disappear.

CAP = 'bill gates' pretty funny

I wonder . . . (2)

fizzer06 (1500649) | about 8 months ago | (#46678961)

Can an unused retail copy of XP be activated? Will MS support THAT?

Re:I wonder . . . (-1)

glasshole (3569269) | about 8 months ago | (#46678999)

No, support will only come for large enterprise customers.

Re:I wonder . . . (1)

wonkey_monkey (2592601) | about 8 months ago | (#46679151)

Activation is not support.

Re:I wonder . . . (1)

glasshole (3569269) | about 8 months ago | (#46679393)

Ah yes, mis read. :)

Running XP on several machines now (4, Interesting)

hessian (467078) | about 8 months ago | (#46678967)

What will I do? Probably keep working from a known image and patch it up as best I can.

In other words, the same thing I've done with legacy DOS, 95, Novell, 98 and 2k systems.

My hope is that at some point I can find a low-overhead Linux or BSD system to use as a VM host, and then have access to every operating system since the dawn of the 4004.

Ask Slashdot (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#46679049)

What software are you using that keeps you on XP?

Take advantage of the hive-mind, there may be alternatives or workarounds.

Simple answer, they won't (0)

bloodhawk (813939) | about 8 months ago | (#46678971)

The unwashed masses are too cheap to upgrade or to even get editors that can even make at least a half arsed attempt at reading before submitting. Why would anyone think they are all going to run out and pay for a service, that is ignoring the incredible complexity of supplying said patches in the first place.

Went to Windows 7 (2)

Brad1138 (590148) | about 8 months ago | (#46679017)

It's DAZzling :)

Slashdot "pay for play" pro-Microsoft propaganda (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#46679023)

Read the headline. It clearly states that anyone supporting XP after Microsoft disowns to OS is a 'CRIMINAL'. That's why the term 'black market' is used. Third-party support for XP becomes tainted with terminology specifically chosen to imply criminality.

Apparently,according to the owners of Slashdot (who are DIRECTLY responsible for all article summaries posted here), all versions of XP become 'boot-leg' copies after the Microsoft disownment date. This filthy Orwellian use of terminology accompanies Microsoft's ILLEGAL position that users do not own their copy of their OS. Actually, as tested in EU courts, the OS is just as much a product as your car or blender. And you are just as entitled to use it with or without the official support of the original manufacturing company.

But the owners of Slashdot make MAJOR coin by running/promoting articles like this one. Direct payments from Microsoft for doing so. And this abuse of language in propaganda is only going to get worse. When did this site ever cover so-called 'climate change' without giving prominence to the word 'DENIER' in the summary. This is how stupid the owners of Slashdot think you are.

Use != modification (4, Informative)

tepples (727027) | about 8 months ago | (#46679149)

It clearly states that anyone supporting XP after Microsoft disowns to OS is a 'CRIMINAL'.

Under current copyright law, Microsoft could make a good faith case that anybody else providing modifications to its copyrighted operating systems is committing criminal infringement of copyright. I don't see how stating a reasonable interpretation of current law is "propaganda".

Actually, as tested in EU courts

Slashdot is subject to the jurisdiction of US courts, not EU courts.

you are just as entitled to use it with or without the official support of the original manufacturing company.

Using it doesn't include modifying it, which is what third parties providing support would have to do in order to let their clients keep using it without known security holes. And there's precedent against that: Apple successfully sued in the United States a company that was selling PCs along with the patch to run OS X on them. Put Apple v. Psystar in your favorite web search engine.

Re:Use != modification (1)

TapeCutter (624760) | about 8 months ago | (#46679453)

Under current copyright law, Microsoft could make a good faith case

Ever heard of software "clean rooms"? - If a thousand monkeys did actually manage to recreate the windows source code they would not be infringing copyright, monkeys can't read so obviously they cannot be guilty of copying anything belonging to MS.

Re:Use != modification (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#46679567)

If a thousand monkeys did actually manage to recreate the windows source code

Why not? They did it once already in Redmond.

Re:Use != modification (1)

tepples (727027) | about 8 months ago | (#46679595)

The files that a third-party support organization would need to replace contain other functionality that it would have to replicate as well.

Pointed out (0, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#46679035)

As Whoever57 pointed out, there are some who will still get support for Microsoft Windows XP pointed out, there are some who will still get support for Microsoft Windows XP pointed out, there are some who will still get support for Microsoft Windows XP pointed out, there are some who will still get support for Microsoft Windows XP pointed out, there are some who will still get support for Microsoft Windows XP pointed out, there are some who will still get support for Microsoft Windows XP ...
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The US government is getting updates. #duplicate (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#46679065)

If the recent whistleblowing of top secret shit is any measure, these updates being duped and leaked is a foregone conclusion.

Why does everything have to be about class warfare (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#46679105)

Why is it that every story these days has to be about an imagined divide between "haves" and "have nots?"

Re:Why does everything have to be about class warf (2)

KrimZon (912441) | about 8 months ago | (#46679251)

Not every story is about an imagined divide. Some have an imagined divide whereas others do not.

Microsoft is leaving a ton of money on the table (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#46679107)

Just stupid. There is absolutely nothing wrong with XP or Windows 2000 Pro UI, particularly for business. Heck even Windows 98 UI is far more user friendly then the utter garbage Microsoft is producing now. They could have simply just added new features where you can turn on or add things like Metro. There really is no valid reason for the average use to migrate other than security which could simply be taken care of with anti-virus. Microsoft could have simply handled this by charging updates to XP each year.

Something like:

"Your copy of XP will expire and will be insecure. Receive the latest security updates for 1 year. Buy it Now $10".

"Add Metro UI, Buy it Now $10".

"Upgrade to XP 2015, buy it now $80"

F Microsoft UI developers and all the fan boys that want change for the sake of change. While I am at it, F the Linux developer community for going down the same path at the same time as Metro and losing a perfectly good opportunity to challenge Microsoft missteps.

My clean PC runs Xfce (1)

tepples (727027) | about 8 months ago | (#46679169)

F the Linux developer community for going down the same path at the same time as Metro

What "same path as Metro"? I don't see "modern" tiley garbage on my copy of Xubuntu. Its user interface behaves more like Windows 2000/XP than Windows 8 without Classic Shell does.

Re:My clean PC runs Xfce (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#46679455)

Gnome 3. I know you can chose another default and they added classic mode but that was the focus of development.

No support needed... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#46679111)

Unless theres some msblast type remote exploit found again, I don't see any need for updates.

I've been running Windows XP since pre-launch(worked tech support for MS then); My last update was SP2(because I found SP3 was just added for .net framework and to slow it down to make vista/etc not seem so bad).

It's the web browsers security and applications you install in general that are a vulnerability, sure it's the same thing as surfing as 'root/admin' but that's how it was done all through DOS/win9x, and that was fine also.

So XP support? meh, I guess some might need it, update your browsers and keep antivirus around if your worried. the single biggest reason to install a newer OS is > 3.5gb memory support.

FYI: I have about a half a dozen computers here, most all came with a windows vista-7 license, I 'upgraded'(down implies negative) them all to XP, and they run much better and even take less power(I'm a bit of a power miser(offgrid)).

Classic Open Source Arguments (0)

Demonantis (1340557) | about 8 months ago | (#46679147)

They have become reliant on a single supplier for updating the OS. All market related forces for a company with a Monopoly position will occur. With an open source product a new supplier for updates could have emerged. It will be interesting to see if counterfeit updates will emerge.

Re:Classic Open Source Arguments (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#46679215)

I think it speaks more to the quality of opensource that the masses would rather run a 12 year old OS.

Re:Classic Open Source Arguments (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#46679339)

If you're sure, I mean, you have made a persuasive argument stating examples of the poor quality, such as the constant blue screening (or snap rebooting) - oops, that's a Windows Feature. Umm... how about the destruction of documents being edited, and their backup files? No, wait, that was Office 2003, still in use in many places today. What about the Activation loops that can be created, with no solution except reinstallation? No, wait, that was also Microsoft.

How about my other partition that just stopped working after I didn't boot it for 5 months? Umm, no, that was Windows 7.

There is always the nightmare OS problem that was my cousin's lapto... no, that was Vista.

Y'know, I have a feeling that the quality level at Microsoft is not as high as you portray it.

XP users don't care (5, Insightful)

msobkow (48369) | about 8 months ago | (#46679159)

Nobody in their right mind is going to resort to the black market for XP support for a business -- it'd be like *inviting* the crackers into your network.

Home users either won't know how or won't care to bother. Most people I know who are still running XP have been virus-infected for months or even years. As long as it lets them play YouTubes, check their gMail, and surf Crackbook they just flat out don't *care* that the machine is infected.

Hell, most of them don't even realize the adware popups they keep seeing are due to an *infection*, not "bad behaviour" on the part of the aforementioned websites. One fellow I knew used to complain about the "popups from YouTube" all the time, 'cause all he ever did was YouTube and Crackbook. As far as he was concerned, it was YouTube that was putting up all the porn ads.

Re:XP users don't care (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#46679471)

Don't blame XP. This is typical behavior for all Windows users.

Much ado about nothing (0)

dreamchaser (49529) | about 8 months ago | (#46679195)

Everyone knew long ago that end of support was coming. Most of the enterprises that I consult for have already finished or started migrations to Windows 7. Some have gone to 8.1, but most are moving to 7.

XP has been around for a long, long time. It's time to move on.

Re:Much ado about nothing (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#46679377)

Tell that to my work. We have equipment that are is far out of date that nobody makes spares for it, and the gear is literally falling apart. We're presently down a couple of crucial items, and we will not be getting replacements.

Most of our computers are so old they're single core. Imagine video editing with under 3 gigs of RAM and you're living our nightmare. All of our machines are XP or XP Pro, and not a single one will be upgraded. Some of our systems are even older, pre-Plug and Play.

We are overdue for an upgrade, on all of our hardware and software from one end to the other, but with the CEO deliberately underpaying us most weeks to make his budget look good, that's just not going to happen.

Why Should I Upgrade? (2)

dmbrun (907271) | about 8 months ago | (#46679201)

I'm a Windows XP user. I see no need to upgrade. The only circumstances in which I would upgrade is either I can't find hardware to run XP on or the data I process (documents, music, video) have no applications I can use on XP. These circumstances forced me from 98 to 2000 and now XP.

Yes, I'm going to have to take care to stop being infected by malware. Good anti-virus, good firewall, Chrome browser, safe surfing habits, care with email.

If you would like a similar analogy people drive old cars with drum brakes, no seat belts, no air bags and no crush zones in modern traffic. They see no need to upgrade as well. Just take care and be sensible.

If Chrome and AV on XP go away (1)

tepples (727027) | about 8 months ago | (#46679281)

The only circumstances in which I would upgrade is [...] the data I process (documents, music, video) have no applications I can use on XP. [...] Yes, I'm going to have to take care to stop being infected by malware. Good anti-virus [...] Chrome browser

So long as Google and the publishers of "good anti-virus" continue to support Windows XP. Otherwise, "the data [you] process" (virus definitions and HTML documents) would "have no applications [you] can use on XP". Support for Chrome on Windows XP will continue longer, possibly as a side effect of support on Windows Server 2003, but even that's going away in a year [blogspot.com] .

good firewall

If security researchers (wearing any color hat) exploit a defect in the TCP/IP stack of Windows XP, a firewall running on Windows XP is unlikely to help you much.

You use the Internet (2)

rsilvergun (571051) | about 8 months ago | (#46679385)

you need to upgrade. Sooner or later one of the poorly policed ad networks will serve you up a virus. I run some ads off my home page to pay for hosting/etc and I stick to google's ads because so far every site I browse has been shut down at least once when their ad networks served up a virus. Angry Nintendo Nerd, Spoony Experiment, Something Positive. All of them. Heck, I think even Penny Arcade's been nailed.

It's not a matter if if, it's when. Which is why I'm posting from Win 7 today :(...

Re:Why Should I Upgrade? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#46679441)

My only suggestion is that you could make a backup copy using dd or Norton Ghost (or whatever works for you, I found older versions of Ghost that worked and newer versions that were just terrible) from a known clean install with good default settings, and reinstall it every few months.

Legacy Software Limitations (3, Interesting)

nickberry (1226494) | about 8 months ago | (#46679255)

My business uses software that was written for serial communication that simply doesn't work on windows 7, nor 8. The cost of replacing the software is more than having a couple dozen thinkpads with windows xp installed handy in case one goes down and we can't get support. At that we've even tried to have new software written and the vendors who took on the task simply couldn't get it to work. Then we run into the damn hardware problem I still can't find a serial to usb adapter that runs across at 1200 baud.

Arduino it (1)

tepples (727027) | about 8 months ago | (#46679337)

Then we run into the damn hardware problem I still can't find a serial to usb adapter that runs across at 1200 baud.

Couldn't you make such an adapter out of a microcontroller like the one in an Arduino kit?

Re:Legacy Software Limitations (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#46679383)

You did try ones with the FTDI chipset?

http://www.amazon.com/Serial-9-Pin-RS-232-Adapter-Chipset/dp/B006AA04K0/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1396823808&sr=8-2&keywords=ftdi+usb+to+serial

In my experience any adapter with a prolific chipset has been troublesome.

Or try something like this if your laptop supports it.

http://www.startech.com/Cards-Adapters/Serial-Cards-Adapters/1-Port-Native-ExpressCard-RS232-Serial-Adapter-16950-UART~EC1S952

Re:Legacy Software Limitations (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#46679511)

My wife's business had the same problem, software that the vendor wanted far too much money to upgrade to a version compatible with Windows 7 (with absolutely zero additional features). And it wouldn't run under WINE no matter what we tried.

Our solution: Linux Mint with a virtual machine running XP on its own partition. Her business software doesn't need network access so the VM is set up without it.

Sure, it runs about 10-20% slower than native XP would, but after upgrading her laptop to a newer model, her software actually runs faster than before.

Windows 98 unofficial patch site (4, Informative)

Neo-Rio-101 (700494) | about 8 months ago | (#46679289)

Given that somebody clearly took the trouble to make Unofficial patch sets for Windows 98, we can fully expect unofficial patch sets for Windows XP

http://www.mdgx.com/upd98me.ph... [mdgx.com]

Re:Windows 98 unofficial patch site (4, Interesting)

Neo-Rio-101 (700494) | about 8 months ago | (#46679305)

This one is more up to date. Somebody is still working on patching Windows 98!

http://www.htasoft.com/u98sesp... [htasoft.com]

Give up Windows Now. No Excuses! (-1, Troll)

turgid (580780) | about 8 months ago | (#46679309)

I got off the Windows treadmill when Windows 95 came out. I was young, but lucky enough to have some education and some contact with clued-up people and I got the whole Emperor's New Clothes thing.

I went straight to Slackware Linux (where I still am) which has been a great education and got me into Solaris, Debian, Red Hat, SuSE, CentOS, Gentoo, Ubuntu and MINT.

I have never needed to run a Windows desktop since. Ever. Period. You can do it, and you can run your DOS and Windows stuff if you really, really need to.

In 99% of cases it's just fear, ignorance and laziness stopping people getting off of Windows.

Even Mrs Turgid has found herself at work booted off of Windows/IE/MS Office onto google's cloud stuff. There was no training provided and none required. IE no longer required either.

For those who really need it: (1)

drolli (522659) | about 8 months ago | (#46679331)

Most of them can solate the XP machines in a private network, very much like i isolated the Windows98 machines (Thanks, Tektronix) a few years back.

completely wrong (1)

slashmydots (2189826) | about 8 months ago | (#46679475)

What market? All you need is one person to give it out for free and the market collapses. Nobody will make a penny on XP bootleg patches.

Why? (5, Insightful)

fredprado (2569351) | about 8 months ago | (#46679491)

The objective of applying security updates from Microsoft is to make your OS safer by applying fixes delivered by a trusted party. MS may not be perfectly "trusted" but at least it has to worry about the liability of any fishy piece of software they install in your computer. On the other hand any source from the "black market" can simply deliver rootkits and any kind of malware disguised as security updates which certainly defies the purpose of applying updates.

NOPE. (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#46679495)

I've been happy with Linux since Chicago was in beta from Microslop.

Businesses should support Linux and BSD (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#46679577)

And guess what, 6 to 13 years from now windows 7/8.1 will go the same way as XP, and so we will have the same dance as we have now. Why not small and big businesses get together and start supporting(hire software developers) linux or even bsd instead of wasting time and money on MS products. Windows 9 beta this year and rtm next year.

Absolutley Not! (1)

c4t3l (3606237) | about 8 months ago | (#46679613)

Haven't needed that shit since 2003.
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