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Phil Shapiro says 20,000 Teachers Should Unite to Spread Chromebooks (Video)

Roblimo posted about 6 months ago | from the computers-for-eager-young-minds-and-fingers dept.

Education 101

Phil Shapiro often loans his Chromebook to patrons of the public library where he works. He says people he loans it to are happily suprised at how fast it is. He wrote an article earlier this month titled Teachers unite to influence computer manufacturing that was a call to action; he says that if 20,000 teachers demand a simple, low-cost Chromebook appliance -- something like a Chrome-powered Mac mini with a small SSD instead of a hard drive, and of course without the high Mac mini price -- some computer manufacturer will bite on the idea. Monitors? There are plenty of used ones available. Ditto speakers and keyboards, not that they cost much new. The bottom line is that Phil believes Chromebooks, both in their current form factor and in a simpler one, could be "the" computer for schools and students. Maybe so, not that Android tablets are expensive or hard to use. And wait! Isn't there already a Chromebox? And even a Chromebase all-in-one Chrome-based desktop? In any case, Chrome-based computers look pretty good for schools and libraries, especially if and when prices for the simplest members of the family get down to where Phil thinks they should be. (Alternate video link)

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Frosty (0)

cyborg_monkey (150790) | about 6 months ago | (#46729121)

Yeah, still have it.

Re:Frosty (0)

Jeremiah Cornelius (137) | about 6 months ago | (#46729671)

"Google for your 'one ring'! Get your 'one ring' here at Google!"

Great for learning programming, too! (1)

mellon (7048) | about 6 months ago | (#46729133)

I am not thrilled that this is considered a good idea. In principle I suppose you _can_ learn to program on a Chromebook, but only in a very limited way. If this is the wave of the future in education, some thought needs to go into how to design a programming curriculum that can work with these devices.

Re:Great for learning programming, too! (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 6 months ago | (#46729155)

If can can teach myself machine language on a Commodore 64, they sure can learn to program in Python on a motherfucking Chromebook. What is wrong with you?

Re:Great for learning programming, too! (2)

mellon (7048) | about 6 months ago | (#46729171)

A properly locked-down Chromebook doesn't let you do stuff like that. You have to enable developer mode. Presumably the point of using chromebooks is that they're easier to maintain, and that won't be the case if they aren't locked down.

Re:Great for learning programming, too! (1)

JMZero (449047) | about 6 months ago | (#46729201)

There's no reason you couldn't learn to program inside a web application - it limits the tools you can use, sure, but it's certainly not impossible.

Re:Great for learning programming, too! (2)

khellendros1984 (792761) | about 6 months ago | (#46729375)

And then you've got a developer used to being tied into that web app for anything they want to do. "Certainly not impossible" doesn't inspire a lot of confidence. A cheap computer that's suitable for learning programming isn't a very high bar, and there are a lot of options.

Re:Great for learning programming, too! (1)

JMZero (449047) | about 6 months ago | (#46729771)

Lots of people have always got attached to their first language or IDE or whatever, but the core skills learned are transferable. What's being talked about isn't vocational training; it's introducing, for example, programming to patrons at a library.

I think a Chromebook has some very good properties for a public library. They're not just cheap, they're simple and maintainable. If they couldn't support learning how to program at all, I think that would be an important disadvantage. But I think in the context of a library, having online tools and sites available to learn programming is perfectly reasonable, and "ticks that box" so to speak.

Re:Great for learning programming, too! (1)

FatLittleMonkey (1341387) | about 6 months ago | (#46731097)

And then you've got a developer used to being tied into that web app for anything they want to do.

Dude, no-one is a "developer" straight out of high school. Kids who learn basic web-hosted programming skills in high school are still going to do a college-level course before even the most entry-level coding job.

Re:Great for learning programming, too! (1)

khellendros1984 (792761) | about 6 months ago | (#46732231)

They wouldn't be what I'd call an "engineer", and maybe "programmer" would've been a better word than "developer". I certainly would've described myself as a programmer before I was out of high school. You're nitpicking word choice without addressing the point that I was trying to make: limitations suck, and someone using standard tools is going to be able to find more material to learn from, anyhow. If the choice is between having a bunch of Chromebooks or nothing, then that's an obvious choice. If there's another option available, then it's better to teach a student with something they'll be able to get help with on their own.

Re:Great for learning programming, too! (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 6 months ago | (#46732567)

I'm sure there are other options, but codeskuptor.org is a decent web-based python interpreter. Admittedly, no-one in their right mid would use it to run real applications, but it is perfectly adequate for teaching the basics at a high-school level, and it is used for a introductory course for programming on Coursera (or at least was when I took it).

Re:Great for learning programming, too! (1)

K. S. Kyosuke (729550) | about 6 months ago | (#46729721)

I wonder if it were possible to run PNaCl code on the Chrome OS machine generated by another program running on the same Chrome OS machine. In the worst case, you'd need one web server to run in from, but I don't see anything else being necessary for this. That way, you'd be able to compile most reasonable things (C, C++, Go, Ocaml and similar) into native code.

Re:Great for learning programming, too! (1)

Ol Olsoc (1175323) | about 6 months ago | (#46730811)

There's no reason you couldn't learn to program inside a web application - it limits the tools you can use, sure, but it's certainly not impossible.

I suppose I'll have to go into the witness protection program now, but here is a site/language alreay doint just that:

https://www.ruby-lang.org/en/ [ruby-lang.org]

Re:Great for learning programming, too! (1)

Ol Olsoc (1175323) | about 6 months ago | (#46730807)

A properly locked-down Chromebook doesn't let you do stuff like that. You have to enable developer mode. Presumably the point of using chromebooks is that they're easier to maintain, and that won't be the case if they aren't locked down.

A couple days ago, I traded in an old P3 XP powered laptop at a well known place I won't mention lest I be declared a shill. Got the cheapest Chromebook for 99 dollars.

Initial reports are that it is the most amazing 99 dollar computer I ever purchased. It still would be at normal pricepoint of 199 dollars. Fast and responsive in a way my better half's W8 touchscreen laptop would love to be, but never will. All that at around 18 percent of the price.

But more to the point of your comment, after a few days of learning chrome OS, I installed ChrUbuntu on it. I'm not a big fan of Ubuntu, and prefer Mint, but there ya go. Problem solved, and learn to program at will. I just boot into whatever I need at the moment.

I just used "Caret" to write a JavaScript app (1)

Paul Fernhout (109597) | about 6 months ago | (#46731833)

https://chrome.google.com/webs... [google.com]

I just wrote a completely open ended HTML5/CSS/JavaScript app on my Samsung $250 Chromebook using the regular user mode and "Caret". I saved versions of the files on the Chromebook and ran them locally from Chrome. The app I wrote uses IndexedDB for local storage of snippets of HTML (which can include JavaScript). The app is intended to support boostrapping a better app by supporting experiments with HTML5/CSS/JavaScript. You can edit text and have it included as a section of HTML on the page. From start to finish (well, it's not really "done") I wrote it on the Chromebook.

I just put the code up on GitHub as an example for you (again using only the Chromebook) :
https://github.com/pdfernhout/... [github.com]

You can try a demo version here which will store data in your browser: http://rawgithub.com/pdfernhou... [rawgithub.com]

Here is a direct link to the bootstrap.json content to paste in as a start: https://raw.githubusercontent.... [githubusercontent.com]

See the GitHub repo for basic instructions on how to use it.

Granted, to do C compiling I'd need some tool that converted C to JavaScript in a special way, but more and more such tools exists.
https://github.com/kripken/ems... [github.com]
http://www.infoq.com/research/... [infoq.com]

So, more and more things are possible with Chromebooks or similar devices.

You can program on a locked-down Chromebook just (1)

Technomancer (51963) | about 6 months ago | (#46732433)

fine.
I used Python Editor V3 http://editor.codnex.net/pythonv3/index.php to play with Python.
There are plenty Javascript editors, with WebGL it can be fun.
And if C/C++ is your favourite, there are probably online compilers for emscripten or asm.js and whatnot.

Re:Great for learning programming, too! (1)

fustakrakich (1673220) | about 6 months ago | (#46729275)

Can you program it to automatically clear the cache?

Re:Great for learning programming, too! (1)

mk1004 (2488060) | about 6 months ago | (#46729415)

I must have missed the part in the article that said they were to be used for programming. The idea is that students use them for studying for all classes. With Chromebooks, it needs to be pretty much all web-based, but that should be doable. If they are teaching programming, they can get a few Raspberry Pi modules (kidding) or a few regular desktops with whatever OS you want to teach in.

Re:Great for learning programming, too! (1)

niftymitch (1625721) | about 6 months ago | (#46729719)

I am not thrilled that this is considered a good idea. In principle I suppose you _can_ learn to program on a Chromebook, but only in a very limited way. If this is the wave of the future in education, some thought needs to go into how to design a programming curriculum that can work with these devices.

Not only can but many folk at Google do exactly that.
They interact with the cloud of compute servers and VMs to their hearts content.
It is not necessary but it is possible to set a Chromebook in developer mode
and do the rare odd bit that cannot be done in their cloud. Schools could provide
a modest cloud server set of student resources inside a school VPN and
have a lot of control.

The point is that not only can you but this is solved at Google and with some
modest education of the teachers is easy.

Re:Great for learning programming, too! (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 6 months ago | (#46730375)

Google's evil and you suck a demon's dick.

Re:Great for learning programming, too! (1)

BitZtream (692029) | about 6 months ago | (#46730889)

I know a few Google employes.

They give their kids chrome books.

They all have Macs, Linux as the primary OS, few use OSX, none use Windows.

Anyone you know at Google using a chrome book as their primary ... isn't doing anything important.

Re:Great for learning programming, too! (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 6 months ago | (#46731345)

http://www.compileonline.com/compile_java_online.php

this Chromepost smells Chromefunny (4, Insightful)

globaljustin (574257) | about 6 months ago | (#46729135)

Chrometeachers need laptops, sure but it's not the essential tool of Chromeeducation.

For some Chromereason, I feel like TFA is taking benefits of ***USING ANY LAPTOP*** and recasting them as Chromebenefits of using one company's product

Re:this Chromepost smells Chromefunny (1)

ColdWetDog (752185) | about 6 months ago | (#46729151)

Yeah, I'm not so sure that the Chrome God should be anywhere near students on a regular basis. It's just another $computer would be great for learning rant.

Nothing to see here, move along.

Re:this Chromepost smells Chromefunny (1)

Shatrat (855151) | about 6 months ago | (#46729309)

You should use my Windows 7 laptop. It's takes several minutes to get my email open when I come in to work.

Re:this Chromepost smells Chromefunny (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 6 months ago | (#46736383)

Your network pipe is clogged by YouTube streams / Hockey/Football/Soccer ..etc
OR
You don't know how to hold your laptop.

Re:this Chromepost smells Chromefunny (1)

93 Escort Wagon (326346) | about 6 months ago | (#46729593)

For some Chromereason, I feel like TFA is taking benefits of ***USING ANY LAPTOP*** and recasting them as Chromebenefits of using one company's product

Well, just off the top of my head - if these teachers don't push their students into using Chromebooks, Google will need to find some other method of collecting data and building shadow profiles on those people.

So, right there, you've got a significant benefit to specifically promoting Chromebooks.

Re:this Chromepost smells Chromefunny (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 6 months ago | (#46731111)

Partial credit.

Stay away from my school please (4, Insightful)

KalvinB (205500) | about 6 months ago | (#46729145)

Chrome laptops are consumption devices. They are not creative devices.

Schools need computers that you can hook Arduinos up to or Raspberry Pis or install Apache, MySQL, PostgreSQL, PHP, Ruby, Visual Studio Express, etc. on. Computers you can install Gimp or Photoshop on.

They do not need fancy TVs.

The iPad failed in LA, not because it was expensive, but because it was a very dumb idea.

We need to get people involved in schools that at least have some clue about technology and what would be most useful to kids.

And frankly, until we get that sorted out, you'd be better off buying the students $200-400 worth of notebook paper and pencils.

Re:Stay away from my school please (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 6 months ago | (#46729249)

Well, books are consumption devices too, and there's room for them in schools. If all you need is a browser to gather information or prepare a report, it's not a totally dumb idea. And already my (middle school) kids use prezi to prepare powerpoint type reports online, then email the link to their teacher who puts it up on their Prometheus board (prometheanworld.com) for presenting to the class. They would be happy with a Chromebook if it ran Minecraft.

Re:Stay away from my school please (1)

Richy_T (111409) | about 6 months ago | (#46729271)

It is not too bad if you have a real computer you can SSH into.

I haven't tried Google's version of VNC/RDP yet. I refuse to run the server on my main system.

Re:Stay away from my school please (1)

Teckla (630646) | about 6 months ago | (#46729353)

Chrome laptops are consumption devices. They are not creative devices.

This is nonsense. There are a lot of web apps and Chrome apps for creating things.

Re:Stay away from my school please (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 6 months ago | (#46730173)

yep and most of the web apps are poor quality shit not capable of replacing real apps

Re:Stay away from my school please (1)

ChunderDownunder (709234) | about 6 months ago | (#46731277)

It's a platform that restricts the available choice of software, forcing content to be rewritten for a web interface.

Pre-existing content isn't an issue just for Chrome OS. e.g. A friend's grandchildren were forced to use an iPad for classroom use. Turns out they couldn't do a homework exercise because the educational material targeted flash.

Re:Stay away from my school please (1)

zoid.com (311775) | about 6 months ago | (#46729493)

Not true. In our elementary schools they are pretty much using browsers only with occasional word processing and presentations. The chromebooks are berfect for this. At this grade they are not doing any tech type stuff and if they do then they go to the labs. They are using the laptops for courseware not programming.

Re:Stay away from my school please (1)

rogoshen1 (2922505) | about 6 months ago | (#46729885)

i don't think there's an age that's too young for students to start learning to program (Even if it's using symbols, versus numbers and or text) -- the concepts that they'd pick up along the way (logic, reason, problem solving) are worth way more than ipads, or any other $tech). And these concepts are not limited to just IT/tech.

We seem to have this bias that kids are too stupid to pick up things like math or science until they're in middle school, that sounds more like an artifact of the teaching methods than their potential.

Wow, do you have it wrong (1)

Pollux (102520) | about 6 months ago | (#46729619)

I work in a K-12 school setting. And let me be up front about it...Google is Evil Empire 2.0. I'm not a fan of signing over 1,000 students to Google so that they can harvest personal data and target ad services to them.

But nobody, absolutely nobody does a better job at KISS than Google. With Google Apps, school districts can now setup dumb-terminal-2.0s (i.e. Chromebooks) at $250 a pop, teach almost anybody how to administer the @school.k12.xx.us user domain, and no longer depend on specialized staff for server administration. Kids have access to their files at home, at school, on vacation, on their Chromebook, on their school computer, on their iPhone... nothing else comes even close to this level of simplicity and usability. And while Google Apps doesn't cut it for power users, it does exactly what it needs to do for the average student and teacher. And schools are signing up in droves.

You're smoking the FOSS pipe thinking that schools can and will be willing to pay for techs who know how to work with Apache, MySQL, et al. And the iPads haven't failed in LA. There's been a setback, but they're still being deployed. (Though I'm sure not a fan of Apple by any means, either. Root canals are more pleasant than administering iPads.)

And as far as getting people in schools who have a clue about technology, stop your ranting and talk to your local school board member. They represent public interests in your neighborhood school. And besides, in my community, our board members are expecting me to add more tablet technology into our K-12 schools. Why? Because they're convinced that's how kids learn these days. The only way they'll see otherwise is if they get educated by people such as yourselves.

Re:Wow, do you have it wrong (1)

walterbyrd (182728) | about 6 months ago | (#46731045)

> I work in a K-12 school setting. And let me be up front about it...Google is Evil Empire 2.0. I'm not a fan of signing over 1,000 students to Google so that they can harvest personal data and target ad services to them.

You think MS is any better? You must not have been keeping up with the news. Microsoft is worse - far worse - when it comes to harvesting data from k-12 students.

Re:Wow, do you have it wrong (2)

walterbyrd (182728) | about 6 months ago | (#46731075)

Bill Gates Marginalises Teachers and Harvests Schools’ Data for Profit at Expense of Privacy
http://techrights.org/2013/06/21/bill-gates-marginalising-teachers/

Bill Gates Brings NSA-esque Surveillance to Children
http://techrights.org/2013/12/03/indoctrinate-control-and-spy/

What? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 6 months ago | (#46729791)

Schools need computers that you can hook Arduinos up to or Raspberry Pis or install Apache, MySQL, PostgreSQL, PHP, Ruby, Visual Studio Express, etc. on. Computers you can install Gimp or Photoshop on.

Schools need to get their act together to properly teach reading, writing, math and science. Unfortunately, our populace is so scientifically illiterate that folks are attacking Cosmos [salon.com] because it doesn't show "their side" - superstitious beliefs based on Iron Age Jewish Myth.

The skills that were mentioned by the parent are not appropriate for K-12 students and will distract from subjects that are being short changed now - let alone if programming and Arduinos.

How can students get any value out of learning the programming and Arduino if they can't understand basic math and science?

Re:Stay away from my school please (2)

chmod a+x mojo (965286) | about 6 months ago | (#46729863)

Umm, no, chromebooks are not just media consumption devices. I'm on one right now, find me another 100% Linux compatible laptop with a decent keyboard for ~$300USD. It should also be x86_64 and have a battery life of ~8-10+ hours with normal use and WiFi on.

QuickOffice / GoogleDocs ( even offline ) damn well better be good enough for highschool papers, it's good enough for college papers unless you are juggling enough sources to need a reference manager.

Re:Stay away from my school please (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 6 months ago | (#46730327)

true but when you wipe chrome os off and replace it with ubuntu, arch or windows 8 they suddenly become much more productive for real work and are no longer the media / web consumption

the current generation of chrome web apps are awkward, clunky, slow and unresponsive, lack required features and place your data in somebody elses hands

so i bought the 199 acer c720, installed arch linux and have got a great REAL laptop that is so much more useful than chromeos that I only ever boot into chrome to watch netflix. windows 8 runs pretty well on it (but no acpi support) to but the stock ssd drive is too small for windows 8 to really be useful so i stuck with arch linux,

i want google to keep promoting them to retarded american school boards so I can keep converting sub 200 intel haswell based chromebooks into real tools for people

Re:Stay away from my school please (1)

Ol Olsoc (1175323) | about 6 months ago | (#46730955)

true but when you wipe chrome os off and replace it with ubuntu, arch or windows 8 they suddenly become much more productive for real work and are no longer the media / web consumption

I can't figure why anyone wouldn't dual boot instead of wiping Chrome. My Chromebook is dual boot Linux or Chrome. There are some very compelling aspects to Chrome.

And spare me the idea that you are only being tracked and merchandized when using Chrome. Don't want that? Pull the ethernet cable or turn off the wireless adapter if you don't want any of that.

Re:Stay away from my school please (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 6 months ago | (#46729879)

Chrome laptops are consumption devices. They are not creative devices.

Nonsense!
Think of all the personal information the pupil will generate and hand-over to Google in over a decade of schooling!

Re:Stay away from my school please (1)

walterbyrd (182728) | about 6 months ago | (#46731143)

> Think of all the personal information the pupil will generate and hand-over to Google in over a decade of schooling!

But it's okay to hand-over said data to Microsoft?

Microsoft is worse than google when it comes to harvesting data from grade schools children.

Re:Stay away from my school please (1)

Angrycrow (3613387) | about 6 months ago | (#46730651)

IF there is a deal to be made where you can get the Chrubuntu experience in the classroom then I think it's viable. I remember early phasing in of laptops for classrooms in the iBook days. It was not the best solution. Even walking students through the install process and setting up that account could be good for those kids interested in CS / Creative Tech. But I agree on your point that having staff that can make a good curriculum is more important than the actual brand of parts you put in front of them.

Re:Stay away from my school please (1)

Ol Olsoc (1175323) | about 6 months ago | (#46730915)

Chrome laptops are consumption devices. They are not creative devices.

Oh, I really have to disagree

Schools need computers that you can hook Arduinos up to or Raspberry Pis or install Apache, MySQL, PostgreSQL, PHP, Ruby, Visual Studio Express, etc. on.

I sorta agree, but we must remember that this is the equivalent of armies always being ready to fight the last war. Computers you can install Gimp or Photoshop on.

They do not need fancy TVs.

You can indeed do Gimp on a Chromebook. Note that I cheated a little bit, because I dual boot my chromebook into either ChromeOS or Ubuntu. But the concept behind the Chromebook is valid for the most part. While I'm not a cloud fan, the general performance of the things for webwork is tremendous. And I can boot into either OS in about as much time as starting a program.

We need to get people involved in schools that at least have some clue about technology and what would be most useful to kids.

And frankly, until we get that sorted out, you'd be better off buying the students $200-400 worth of notebook paper and pencils.

I agree wholeheartedly about the technology, certainly Pi's should be required, and hey, I still believe that slide rules are cool.

But at some point, we gotta move on, and these things are slick and easy. Chrome, or something akin to it is the wave of the future.

Ubuntu? Fedora? (1)

Scowler (667000) | about 6 months ago | (#46729157)

How is this better than competing Linux alternatives? Besides being more tightly wedded to Google services and the cloud, I mean.

Re:Ubuntu? Fedora? (1)

jedidiah (1196) | about 6 months ago | (#46729461)

For what they seem to be talking about, even discarded hardware running some discontinued version of Windows would be a better idea than a locked down web terminal.

This sounds like some completely clueless idiot latching onto the latest fad or something he heard about in the news.

Re:Ubuntu? Fedora? (2)

nobdoor (1496229) | about 6 months ago | (#46729857)

Giving previously discarded windows machines to students? There's no way a school's sysadmin would be able to support anything that's not homogeneous.

These things are a good option because the hardware is decent and dirt cheap. The school district can also install any OS they want to on them, not just ChromeOS. If you can find where to get an x86 processor (that's Haswell no-less), 2GB ram, and 32GB SSD on a laptop for cheaper than $200, I would agree with you. I haven't been able to find anything that beats the Acer C720 at its price point.

Re:Ubuntu? Fedora? (1)

Ol Olsoc (1175323) | about 6 months ago | (#46730999)

For what they seem to be talking about, even discarded hardware running some discontinued version of Windows would be a better idea than a locked down web terminal

You must have a newsletter - you know so much about chrome books..

No discarded Windows machines aren't nearly better.

Options: ChrUbuntu. I'm running it this very moment on my cheap Chromebook

Option 2: programs written specifically for ChromeOs

Unless you have some technical reason that I don't know about that precludes any kind of programming app to be written for a Chromebook, And if you do, I challenge you to educate us, it can be done.

Re:Ubuntu? Fedora? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 6 months ago | (#46729855)

It's better because a student will spend 12 years interacting with a device run by an ad company, bent on extracting every piece of information they can from individuals.

Then, when said student one day becomes a politically active 30 year old, a replica of their mind is just one subpoena away from Google HQ.

I read that as... (1)

QilessQi (2044624) | about 6 months ago | (#46729167)

"Phil Shapiro says 20,000 Teachers Should Unite to Spread Chromosomes (Video)"

I was wondering whether the video showed the actual spreading of the chromosomes....

Nooooo. (3, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about 6 months ago | (#46729175)

Why do people think that relying on a corporation's cloud for all of their computer use is a good idea?
I'm fine with the idea of demanding low-cost computers, but why must it be Google's spyware'd up version of Linux? Why not some other solution?

Are Chromebooks Heartbleed victims? (1)

Em Adespoton (792954) | about 6 months ago | (#46729189)

Does the Chromebook use OpenSSL?

Might want to harden those things significantly.

But I think that schools should change the way they roll out computers -- have appropriately powered computers for creative work, and have a whack of these for consumptive work/staff tools/etc. Makes a lot more sense than a homogeneous network of anything.

Re:Are Chromebooks Heartbleed victims? (1)

Ol Olsoc (1175323) | about 6 months ago | (#46731001)

Does the Chromebook use OpenSSL?

Sites use OpenSSL.

Re:Are Chromebooks Heartbleed victims? (1)

walterbyrd (182728) | about 6 months ago | (#46731149)

You think Microsoft has never had any security issues?

lower cost chrome? (1)

roc97007 (608802) | about 6 months ago | (#46729229)

> especially if and when prices for the simplest members of the family get down to where Phil thinks they should be.

Has anyone tried to get Chrome running on the Raspberry Pi?

Re:lower cost chrome? (2)

khellendros1984 (792761) | about 6 months ago | (#46729503)

For Chromium OS, a guy called Hexxeh had some builds, but he seemed disappointed by the performance, so the port is on an indefinite hiatus. For the Chromium browser, I saw posts that indicated that it could be built for and run on the Pi. I haven't tried it, and I didn't try to find binaries. For Chrome itself (browser and OS), Google doesn't seem to have produced appropriate binaries.

Re:lower cost chrome? (1)

BitZtream (692029) | about 6 months ago | (#46730851)

Yes, its been working for as long as I can remember. Well, Chromium, but it works, I presume thats close enough for you.

Its slow as balls because Broadcom is a bunch of pricks who just recently released the specs for A DIFFERENT chip thats much like the one in the Raspberry Pi, so hardware acceleration for graphics was pretty much non-existent. Maybe sometime in 2016 we'll see an accelerated graphics stack and chrome won't suck on it, but you'll be able to buy an iPhone 5s off contract for less than the raspberrypi before it actually has usable graphics stack based on past experience.

You don't want to use a Raspberry Pi, its crappy hardware with a broken USB stack, shitty graphics stack due to Broadcom not making a driver or release the specs.

The Raspberry Pi is a utterly stupid design anyway. They took a video processor that had a neat little SLOW arm chip attached to do 'other things' ... and then tried to turn it into a general purpose computer.

You know its a stupid design and the wrong implementation when the ARM core that you run Linux on ... is not what it boots from. It boots the video core, then the software enables the ARM core and boots it.

For $10 more you can get a beagle bone black which is superior in every way ... well, except it doesn't have the rabid fanboys that the RaspberryPi has.

I tried using the raspberry pi with chromium in kiosk mode to display a page with 6 Monitis (www.monitis.com, I don't work with them and don't recommend their service either really) charts on a single page. Since its mostly static and only refreshes every so often you'd think it wasn't that bad ... but when you put it on a screen on the wall, not directly in your view ... you still get drawn in by the fact that it'll start an update ... draw part of the page ... and pause ... and then the next or rest.

The RaspberryPi is a pretty much never something you should actually choose. Its certainly not a $35 general purpose computer

Re:lower cost chrome? (1)

Dan Askme (2895283) | about 6 months ago | (#46732583)

The RaspberryPi is a pretty much never something you should actually choose. Its certainly not a $35 general purpose computer

Running great as my £25:
- Webserver
- Ftp server
- Bittorrent server

Also runs great as a external device controller. You know, robotics and real world implementation that school kids can learn stuff from?

You don't want to use a Raspberry Pi, its crappy hardware with a broken USB stack, shitty graphics stack due to Broadcom not making a driver or release the specs.

Broadcom released specs and driver source this year http://blog.broadcom.com/chip-... [broadcom.com]

Yes there are better devices out there, yes the Pi is now "slow", but its also old in a fast paced ARM race.
But the Pi is designed for exploration and learning. Which is does not only as a device, but as a foundation and community.

£25 for your kids to learn from a hands on device, count me in.

Re:lower cost chrome? (0)

BitZtream (692029) | about 6 months ago | (#46733419)

You should read my whole post before you reply. Broadcom released the specs to a chip LIKE the one in the RPi, NOT the ACTUAL Pi.

The Pi was NEVER fast, it was ALWAYS crap and it just has a big following.

And just because you can run a few servers that do basically nothing ... doesn't make it impressive. I can't say I've got a bit torrent client, but I can run FTP and Web servers, including SSL, on $5 micro controllers that will be more than happy to serve my personal requirements ... and thats not impressive.

And I wasn't talking about running some network services ... I specifically was talking about GRAPHICAL environments which you just completely ignore.

Reading comprehension is hard but you really should put more effort into it.

I have a Chromebook (1)

Richy_T (111409) | about 6 months ago | (#46729253)

I like it but it's not possible to get full functionality without signing your soul away to Google.

I'm sure it won't be long before they're require google plus to login either. You already need a gmail account.

Re:I have a Chromebook (1)

walterbyrd (182728) | about 6 months ago | (#46731159)

I have a chromebook also, and I have no idea what you are posting about.

Please explain how using a chromebook causes anybody to "signing your soul away to Google."

And while you're at it, please explain how MS never pulls any vendor-lock-in scams, or anything like that.

Chromebox? (1)

Mr. Sketch (111112) | about 6 months ago | (#46729263)

You mean like the ASUS Chromebox?

http://promos.asus.com/us/chro... [asus.com]

Mod parent up; big miss in video; my experiences (1)

Paul Fernhout (109597) | about 6 months ago | (#46733365)

http://www.google.com/intl/en/... [google.com]

It turns out they are not that much cheaper though, so I don't really see the value proposition in practice implied by Phil Shapiro since they are not yet $100 and screens still cost money:
"Review: Asus crafts a tiny $179 Chromebox out of cheap, low-power parts"
http://arstechnica.com/gadgets... [arstechnica.com]

I'm surprised Roblimo could miss pointing the Chromebox out, just mentioning the Raspberry Pi. Although he was right to point out the SSD speedup is significant for any small computer.

Another big miss is that for US$50 you can buy an Android Smartphone and use it only with Wi-Fi. Example of what we paid $50 for a few months ago, but now is $31?
http://www.amazon.com/Kyocera-... [amazon.com]
"The Kyocera Hydro is sophistication and style in a mainstream Android smartphone that can work for everyone. Plus it offers water-resistance, giving consumers the âoeno-fearâ durability and security they demand. With a 3.5 inch HVGA touchscreen, 3.2 MP camera and video, and Android 4.0, you get the best of all worlds."

Although I would much rather use the Chromebook with a keyboard for making content than trying to use an Android phone. But $30 to be connected with the global internet? That is an amazing realization of many educational technologist's dreams (e.g. Alan Kay Dynabook or OLPC XO-1). And perhaps also some nightmares... See also the 1950s short story by Theodore Sturgeon called "The Skills of Xanadu" on where that all could lead.

My own hopes and predictions from 2000 based in part on seeing the "Cybiko":
"[unrev-II] The DKR hardware I'd like to make..."
http://www.dougengelbart.org/c... [dougengelbart.org]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C... [wikipedia.org]

Also, I don't see why a teacher or librarian is so keen to limit people's mobility (although it doesn't surprise me, going with the "school is prison" meme).

A big value to my $250 Samsung Chromebook is how light and portable it is. I still use my Quad Core Mac Pro Desktop with three big screens for work and running VirtualBox VMs (and the Chromebook could not replace that, especially the screens) -- used to run Debian for about five years until we (my wife especially) got tired of all the random breakage with every "apt-get dist-upgrade" around 2008 (probably much better now). But I use my Chromebook (with Linux under the covers) for just noodling around or surfing the web and posting on Slashdot sitting in our living room, or doing some light for-fun development work. As I said in another post, I wrote this JavaScript-based information manager tool bootstrapping system entirely on the Chromebook:
https://github.com/pdfernhout/... [github.com]

Why do I use the Chromebook instead of my desktop (treadmill workstation actually) Mac Pro? Psychological and social, mostly. I gain some distance from my daily paying work by using a different computer in a different place. I also have done it partially as an experiment in learning about the next generation of computing. It's true that our two-year old Macbook Pro is still a much better computer as far as keyboard and screen and CPU and what it can do -- but it is often otherwise in use these days. My wife would always complain about me leaving a lot of tabs open in Firefox. And so on. The Chromebook is more a personal computer just for me. And it was cheap enough that I could justify it as an experiment compared to another $1000-$2500 Macbook.

We did however buy a $1000 Win 8 ASUS laptop a few months ago anyway. What a disappointment as a laptop. Even with a bigger screen and much faster processors than the Chromebook, I'd rather use the lighter Chromebook with better battery life and more robustness if I drop it (no HD). The Chromebook is not constantly hassling me about upgrades and reboots and having to install new apps to get basic functionality or get the trackpad to work right and so on (even if it does upgrade itself). Windows (now 8.1) seems to mostly just get in my way. Every time Win8 updates itself it seems to break something or lose a custom setting for the trackpad (maybe an exaggeration, but not much). And the less I use Windows, the higher percentage of the time using it is spend in system administration and reboots. Still, the ASUS would make an OK desktop and in an emergency if my 4+ year old Mac Pro failed (one reason I got it), I could do my day-job work on the ASUS, connecting it to a big screen via HDMI and a USB keyboard and trackball and an external USB disk.

I've been using computers for more than thirty years and have had enough of all that system administration in my spare time (for pay it is different). And for what? What do either the Mac or Windows really provide me for my spare time use and system administration? It would be different if I was a gamer more than an author and programmer, I admit. Both Mac and Windows have value still as gaming platforms -- but less and less for anything else. The web and HTML5/CSS/JavaScript with URLs for everything is such an amazing "platform" for me compared to a desktop -- much better than a conventional desktop in many ways. Yes, the web could be better, and web browsers coudl be better (better standards, better support for local apps, etc.), but I have less and less need or interest in desktop stuff. I can see the value in porting our old educational software from Delphi and Java and Python and Smalltalk and C++ to HTM5/CSS/JavaScript (or using emscripten perhaps).

I still want local storage though. We have a $250 MyBook Live for a local server that can even run Python and PHP code I write. Why don't I run that server code from my more powerful Mac Pro? The MyBook Live uses less power and is always on (maybe a 10 second delay if it spins down the disk). I don't have to worry too much about a clean shutdown of the MyBook Live. I put my work desktop to sleep when I am not using it. From a security perspective too, it is better to not be serving data from my workstation. Chromebooks would be much better if they supported mounting remote drives with WebDav or Samba or stuff like that (they may by now with plugins?). I feel that is a weekness in Chromebooks to not have that connectivity. Still, I can get around it. If I wasn't worried about bricking my MyBook Live with complex upgrades, or working towards my own "Pointrel" flavor of social semantic desktop, I'd put "OwnCloud" on it.
http://owncloud.org/ [owncloud.org]

True, after a year of moderate use in my spare time for making Slashdot posts and such, the "space" key on the Chromebook seems to be having issues, so I can see a limit to the life for this device just from that. It might support a USB keyboard, but tethering it to one place would make it less valuable to me. Although it was impressive when I hooked it up via HDMI to a big TV and if just worked with two screens. I remember how much trouble getting two screens to work (and stay working) used to be under Debian around 2004. I can see other possible downsides if Google pushes an "Evil upgrade" at some point for Chrome. On my desktop, I set up Chromium instead of Chrome and I still rely of FIrefox for privacy reasons and NoScript. Once can criticize Google and privacy or spying or mistakes, like a recent bug (?) that lets Chrome provide speech-to-text transcripts of your microphone even when you have not asked it to -- but what bugs do WIndows, Mac, or desktop Linux have?
http://www.ibtimes.com/google-... [ibtimes.com]
"A security flaw in Google Chrome, currently the world's most popular Web browser, could allow a hacker to turn on a user's computer microphone and secretly obtain a Chrome-generated transcript of the user's conversations, according to an Israel-based software developer who highlighted the flaw in a blog post this week."

Anyway, I can see the niche for the Chromebox vs. the Chromebook, depending on the context and availability of existing displays. I can even see why some schools would like it for computer labs and ease of maintainability. But I think most people would probably be better served by the laptop or all-in-one form factor in practice, especially for machines that likely have a limited lifespan and given teh cost difference is so small. What I paid for the Chromebook last year is probably less than I used to spend annually on paper and (expensive) inkjet cartridge two decades ago like for reviewing documents and code printouts (and even printing web pages) which I now do mostly all look at now on the computer. You did not used to be able to carry a big PDF document with you on a lightweight device you could read from. So, if I need to replace a Chromebook once a year or so, and re-purpose the old one somehow (perhaps to give it to another homeschooling family who wants to use it with a USB keyboard, or just using it for checking the weather in the kitchen), it is not that big a deal to me. Personally, I would like a 14 inch screen for older eyes, and that is probably what I would get next. A little heavier perhaps for a 14", but worth it to me. A backlit keyboard would be really nice, too, as otherwise sometimes I have to tilt the screen forward to light up the keys temporarily.

For the average home use who is not a heavy gamer (like in "education"), the Chromebook is a great value proposition for most people. Granted if you can spend more money or more time, or have heavier needs for work, or have legacy apps to use, other options may be better choices. But as above for me, it's not like you can;t have a Chromebook as well as something else. Chromebooks make great second or third or fourth computers for a family.

I'm a teacher ... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 6 months ago | (#46729301)

How about you keep all your bloody electronic distractions out of my classroom, so I at least have a *faint* hope of competing for my students attention. Thanks.

Given how many of them are xtians... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 6 months ago | (#46729303)

there's no way they'll do this unless it pushes their anti-science agenda. Crappy out of date textbooks block learning so they're not going to replace them unless the replacement is even worse.

Sub $200 Netbook better (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 6 months ago | (#46729317)

Last Christmas I picked up a dual atom powered Asus Netbook with 320GB hard drive,with 11 inch screen for $199.
Some times we try to fit problem to a particular device when there are viable and attractive standards already available.
This Chromebook only solution may have been interesting during the One Laptop Per Child was in its heyday , but not now.

Would need tougher hardware (2, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | about 6 months ago | (#46729387)

I'm a tech for a library system in California that piloted a Chromebook rollout at several of our large branches. Staff was fed up with the things shortly after testing began. These things just aren't made to take the wear and tear the average library patron gives them. It got so bad we had over half of our initial 40 machines in for repair at once. When we got them back (from Samsung, in this case) and asked branches to take them back, they actively refused; it was more work than they wanted to put in.

And this was supervised with mostly adult users. I cannot imagine what kind of chaos would occur with students that are not supervised.

Re:Would need tougher hardware (1)

walterbyrd (182728) | about 6 months ago | (#46731173)

I have found winboxes to be much more delicate. No spinning disks in my chromebook.

So thin clients are new again? (2)

scorp1us (235526) | about 6 months ago | (#46729395)

I was having this discussion about my boss's Chromebox. Which I was laughing at for being a thin client. "it'll revolutionize the world"" he said. "We've had citrix for years." I said. All this dies is give you a thin client where the server is any internet accessible site.

Re:So thin clients are new again? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 6 months ago | (#46729825)

Javascript is the present or future...scandals aside...

HTML5 version (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 6 months ago | (#46729397)

Here is a link [jsfiddle.net] to a html5 (flashless) version, using a demo from Ooyala.
Beta could support html5 video, but it does not. Why?

And they will (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 6 months ago | (#46729481)

Only be handed out to girls.

Laptops are not necessary (1)

cyocum (793488) | about 6 months ago | (#46729489)

Given the fact money is unevenly distrubuted through the school systems, thanks to local property taxes, some teachers must buy basic supplies for their own students. Laptops will not fix the funding problems. We need a more stable source of revenue than local bond and property taxes. Once these schools get something more akin to a real amount of money to spend on educating their charges can we then even contemplate giving them laptops or chromebooks or whatever. Let's deal with the underlying problems first rather than throwing solution du jour at them.

Re:Laptops are not necessary (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 6 months ago | (#46729913)

The only source of revenue a government can utilize for education is *le gasp* TAXES. And since everyone on slashdot is a stark-raving tea-bagged imbecile, this alternative is not the correct one, as paying the government for the services they provide does not make sense to a moron.

something I can shove up my ass (0)

AndyKron (937105) | about 6 months ago | (#46729843)

I'm waiting to Google to come out with something I can shove up my ass to look for polyps while enjoying targeted advertizing.

Re:something I can shove up my ass (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 6 months ago | (#46730499)

What would polyps buy? More shit?

No one is think about the consequences here. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 6 months ago | (#46729901)

Cheap, throw away hardware is a BAD thing for the economy. 1. Where does it go when you throw it away? 2. What will IT people do for a living if everyone bought a new $150 shitbox instead of fixing it?

Google and Apple (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 6 months ago | (#46729915)

They both are just two sides of the same coin. They both are evil

Re:Google and Apple (1)

walterbyrd (182728) | about 6 months ago | (#46731081)

Whereas Microsoft all angels, right?

Please no. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 6 months ago | (#46730009)

Real solutions are available at reasonable prices.

Slashvertizement (1)

rsborg (111459) | about 6 months ago | (#46730253)

I thought I turned off ads? These product evangelists annoy me.

Speaking as a teacher... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 6 months ago | (#46730475)

Not as long as Google remains a member of ALEC

Phil has no idea what he's talking about. (2, Insightful)

BitZtream (692029) | about 6 months ago | (#46730783)

Phil is possibly a moron on top of it.

A chromebook is just a computer, and not really any cheaper than an equivalent Windows machine (slightly, but not much).

A decent chrome book that 'isn't slow' will costs you $250 AT LEAST ... and right next to it on the shelf is the Windows $250 laptop that ... works exactly the same if you run everything in a browser like Chrome.

Oh, and the windows machine doesn't start off with you giving everything you have to Google.

Again I state, Phil has no idea what he's talking about.

Re:Phil has no idea what he's talking about. (1)

walterbyrd (182728) | about 6 months ago | (#46731121)

IMO: chomebooks blow windows laptops right out of the water, in many respects.

Every time I start my windows laptop, I want to groan: wait . . . wait . . . wait, while windows makes long series of updates. When I want to shut down it's the same thing. Even when windows is booted, it's not *really* booted - the computer is unusable because of so much crap going on in the background.

Plus I don't like being a victim of msft's non-stop format scams, and so many other vendor lock-in scams.

Then there is the anti-virus headaches. AV software can slow your winbox almost as much a virus. And it's nearly as hard to remove. AV software hardly works anyway.

Getting on a chromebook, or a linux box, after using windows is like a breath a fresh air.

Re:Phil has no idea what he's talking about. (2)

reikae (80981) | about 6 months ago | (#46732207)

Every time I start my windows laptop, I want to groan: wait . . . wait . . . wait, while windows makes long series of updates. When I want to shut down it's the same thing.

So you only use the computer on the second Tuesday of each month? :-)

Re:Phil has no idea what he's talking about. (3, Informative)

edremy (36408) | about 6 months ago | (#46731561)

$250 for a decent Chromebook? How about $200 for the Acer 720p? Find me a Windows laptop with specs anywhere near it for $200- and it better include a SSD because the 10 second boot on a Chromebook is pretty essential. I can't even find a new Windows laptop on Amazon for $200, and the few used ones have Atom processors, 10" screens and Windows 7 Basic.

Yes, it's not a great development device. But it boots in seconds, needs no antivirus (or even maintenance), has a 8-10 hour battery life, a 13" screen and a decent keyboard and trackpad. Stick Linux on it if you want to hack away

Re:Phil has no idea what he's talking about. (0)

BitZtream (692029) | about 6 months ago | (#46733395)

Did you miss the 'decent' part of my post? The Acer is, like most Acer products ... crap.

Re:Phil has no idea what he's talking about. (1)

egranlund (1827406) | about 6 months ago | (#46733659)

A decent chrome book that 'isn't slow' will costs you $250 AT LEAST ... and right next to it on the shelf is the Windows $250 laptop that ... works exactly the same if you run everything in a browser like Chrome.

Google was running a deal last year where a school could get a chromebook for $100 a piece if you were at a school. My boyfriend was able to get an entire classroom set of chromebooks for $2000 raised through donors choose.

Spec and hardware wise they aren't the greatest things, but they're great for having everyone in the classroom do a quick online-based activity or other work without having to fight for the computer lab.

No Wifi? The Chromebook is a brick. (1)

ikhider (2837593) | about 6 months ago | (#46731047)

It is far better to get a laptop with local software and storage. Laptops are mobile devices. If you are mobile, you may not always have a net connection. Therefore local program/storage is far more productive then some cloud crap. Why not a nice netbook with a light GNU/Linux flavor like Puppy? Heck, even Slackware can run on modest environs. Go L/K/Ubuntu if you have to. You will have a far more useful device with a lot more tools at your disposal. Rasberry Pi can run GNU/Linux, and it is wayyyy cheaper. Depends on what you want the kids to do, but more tools and functionality is better than something tethered not only to the cloud, but one specific company. Heck, even when I search on the 'net, I use other search engines like Wolfram Alpha, Blekko, Duckduckgo and on besides the big turd.

Mac Mini (1)

Goody (23843) | about 6 months ago | (#46731413)

"something like a Chrome-powered Mac mini with a small SSD instead of a hard drive, and of course without the high Mac mini price"

So basically nothing like a Mac mini...

Why? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 6 months ago | (#46731763)

Why in the flying fuck would you want to give people useless items like a chromebook? That's just like purposefully spreadingSTDs.

why? (1)

Goldsmith (561202) | about 6 months ago | (#46732073)

We already load up teachers with tech they have no idea how to use.

Teachers are not engineers or programmers.

Look, the landscape of teaching is shifting enough already. We're seriously going to drive these folks crazy if we continue to change major parts of their job on a yearly basis. The least we could do is give them a little time to catch up with the regulatory changes in teaching before starting on another technology refresh.

Penn Manor High School moves to Ubuntu .. (1)

DTentilhao (3484023) | about 6 months ago | (#46732447)

"After a year of planning, Penn Manor High School [pennmanor.net] has officially launched a 1:1 computing program. Laptops are in the hands of approximately 1700 students! Here are a few fast facts and notes about the unique program ..

The laptops are running Linux, specifically Ubuntu 13.10, along with several dozen free and open source programs. Our program is believed to be the largest open source 1:1 implementation in Pennsylvania. By using open source software exclusively, we estimate an initial cost savings of at least $360,000 on licensing fees
."

Someone went full retard (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 6 months ago | (#46732645)

Low cost... Mac mini with a small SSD.

That's like selling out low cost vehicles made by Ferrari.

OT Roblimo: you sound near heart failure/stroke (1)

Paul Fernhout (109597) | about 6 months ago | (#46732909)

Sorry to say, from the slurring of the interviewer in the video, which suggested clogged arteries throughout your body. Check out health ideas here for unclogging them through nutritional changes:
http://www.drfuhrman.com/libra... [drfuhrman.com]
http://www.diseaseproof.com/ar... [diseaseproof.com]
"Cardiovascular disease (CVD) accounted for 32.3% of deaths in the United States in 2010, but you can protect yourself. A significant number of research studies have documented that heart disease is easily and almost completely preventable (and reversible) through a diet rich in plant produce and lower in processed foods and animal products."

More in general:
http://slashdot.org/comments.p... [slashdot.org]
http://slashdot.org/comments.p... [slashdot.org]
http://www.changemakers.com/mo... [changemakers.com]
http://www.changemakers.com/di... [changemakers.com]
https://www.newschallenge.org/... [newschallenge.org]

Good luck Rob, I think we may have we met once briefly around 1999 at an Open Source conference in NYC (one where Ralph Nader spoke), and thanks for all the stories.

And the shift does not have to be that unpleasant as your tastes will adapt after six weeks:
https://www.drfuhrman.com/libr... [drfuhrman.com]
"Scientific evidence suggests that the re-sensitization of taste nerves takes between 30 and 90 days of consistent exposure to less stimulating foods. This means that for several weeks, most people attempting this change will experience a reduction in eating pleasure. This is why modern foods present such a devastating trap--as most of our citizens are, in effect, "addicted" to artificially high levels of food stimulation! The 30-to-90-day process of taste re-calibration requires more motivation--and more self-discipline--than most people are ever willing to muster.
    Tragically, most people are totally unaware that they are only a few weeks of discipline away from being able to comfortably maintain healthful dietary habits--and to keep away from the products that can result in the destruction of their health. Instead, most people think that if they were to eat more healthfully, they would be condemned to a life of greatly reduced gustatory pleasure--thinking that the process of Phase IV will last forever. In our new book, The Pleasure Trap, we explain this extraordinarily deceptive and problematic situation - and how to master this hidden force that undermines health and happiness."

Another good health resource if you are willing to take one week to do a medically supervised water-only fast in Santa Rosa, CA for a quick reboot of your taste buds. Compared to a heart bypass operation or years of physical therapy for a stroke, you won't even have to stop posting to Slashdot the whole time during a fast. Posting would help keep you busy and distracted as your body re-calibrates itself and goes into "garbage collection" mode and shifts to new biological pathways during the fast. See:
http://www.healthpromoting.com... [healthpromoting.com]
"TrueNorth Health Center was founded in 1984 by Drs. Alan Goldhamer and Jennifer Marano. The integrative medicine approach they established offers participants the opportunity to obtain evaluation and treatment for a wide variety of problems. The staff at TrueNorth Health Center includes medical doctors, osteopaths, chiropractors, naturopaths, psychologists, research scientists, and other health professionals. The Center is now the largest facility in the world that specializes in medically supervised water-only fasting.
    The doctors at TrueNorth Health Center have extensive experience in the evaluation and conservative management of high blood pressure, diabetes, autoimmune disorders, and a wide range of other health conditions. Participants come to fast and detoxify, lose weight, and make diet and lifestyle changes while enjoying a health-promoting diet derived from whole natural foods. The extensive educational program, including food preparation classes with Chef Ramses Bravo, make this a unique place to rest, rejuvenate, and learn to achieve optimum health."

I gave a book on Dr. Fuhrman's work to John Taylor Gatto who was sounding the same -- about a year before he had a massive stroke. Only afterwards now that he is bedridden is he now looking to follow improved nutritional advice. Don't wait like John did. Clogged arteries can be cleared in most people by aggressive nutritional intervention like Dr. Joel Fuhrman or Dr. Caldwell Esselstyn do (see Bill Clinton). You will start to feel so much better and have more energy for more interviews and posting more stories. At the very least, if not for yourself, do it for your family. Good luck!
http://www.thejohntaylorgattom... [thejohntay...alfund.com]
https://www.drfuhrman.com/libr... [drfuhrman.com]
http://www.vegsource.com/news/... [vegsource.com]

Fuck Microsoft! (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 6 months ago | (#46733305)

Sick of MS overpriced bloated hard drive thrashing products. Try installing exchange 2013 on server 2008 easier on server 2012( but still require other software installs), it's a long install and server restarting process. These fucking idiots could not include all the packages that is needed to install exchange 2013 they make you go web surfing downloading the individual software including hot fixes yourself and I thought linux was bad with dependencies. This is what you pay $$$ for.

Windows 7/8/8.1 all are slow at downloading updates and then take forever installing them. Sudo apt-get dist-upgrade is fucking faster then the windows regular updates on a fios connection. Companies like adobe and autodesk really need to start targeting linux for development and stop with the overpriced MS products, sick of it.

Um, RasPi anyone? (1)

bokmann (323771) | about 6 months ago | (#46740019)

As TFA suggests a ChromeBook without a keyboard or monitor, something like a mac mini, I suggest a Raspberry Pi. You could get a trivial case and the power supply and still be in for under $50. Give each kid their own SD card paritioned into an unmodifiable boot partition, a modifiable 'system' parition for software, and a section for their work, and have all the benefits he's talking about, but even better. The kid plugs in their own SD card and gets to work. Could still back up to cloud, forgoing their own partition on the SD card entirely.

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