Beta

×

Welcome to the Slashdot Beta site -- learn more here. Use the link in the footer or click here to return to the Classic version of Slashdot.

Thank you!

Before you choose to head back to the Classic look of the site, we'd appreciate it if you share your thoughts on the Beta; your feedback is what drives our ongoing development.

Beta is different and we value you taking the time to try it out. Please take a look at the changes we've made in Beta and  learn more about it. Thanks for reading, and for making the site better!

California Utility May Replace IT Workers with H-1B Workers

Soulskill posted about 3 months ago | from the if-california-falls-into-the-ocean-would-that-count-as-offshoring dept.

Businesses 220

dcblogs writes: "Southern California Edison is preparing to offshore IT jobs, the second major U.S. utility in the last year to do so. It will be cutting its staff, but it hasn't said by how much. The utility is using at least two offshore outsourcing firms, according to government records. SCE's management culture may be particularly primed for firing its IT workers. Following a workplace shooting in SCE's IT offices in 2011, the utility conducted an independent audit of its organizational and management culture. One observation in this report, which was completed a year later, was that 'employees perceive managers to be more concerned about how they 'look' from above, and less concerned about how they are viewed by their subordinates. This fosters an unhealthy culture and climate by sending a message to employees that it is more important to focus on how things look from the top than how they actually are down below.'"

cancel ×

220 comments

Sorry! There are no comments related to the filter you selected.

THe working class can only fight back (-1, Flamebait)

For a Free Internet (1594621) | about 3 months ago | (#46791563)

If it does not allow itself to be divided along national or racial lines, and pitted against each other by the bosses.

Class conscious workers demand FULL CITIZENSHIP RIGHTS FOR ALL IMMIGRANTS, and sek to mobilize the working people to smash U.S. imperialism through international socialist revolution.

LHB Chief Gangbang Organizer (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 months ago | (#46791615)

The LHB management is proud to announce that the 2nd Annual 600 Black Cock Gang will be happening at the Pogson residence this Saturday. We are also pleased to announce that Mrs. Schmitz of Herkimer, New York will be joining Mrs. Pogson in satisfying these hungry cocks.

Seating availability will be limited so if you have any questions send emails marked 'Strictly Confidential' to:

dietrich@dtschmitz.com
OpenPGP Public key id: E6D1EEE0

And we will do our best to get back to you as quickly as possibly.

Thank you.

Not H1-Bs, offshore workers. (5, Informative)

HaeMaker (221642) | about 3 months ago | (#46791593)

If you are "offshoring" you are literally having the work performed off-shore. If they fear their jobs are getting replaced by H1-Bs, then they are "outsourcing". It would be illegal for them to fire everyone then hire H1-Bs, and even if the off-shore companies place people that all happen to be H1-B, lawsuits will follow. How can the consulting company say they couldn't find competent employees when they know a bunch that got laid-off?

Re:Not H1-Bs, offshore workers. (1)

Mitreya (579078) | about 3 months ago | (#46791629)

It would be illegal for them to fire everyone then hire H1-Bs, and even if the off-shore companies place people that all happen to be H1-B, lawsuits will follow. How can the consulting company say they couldn't find competent employees when they know a bunch that got laid-off?

The article basically claims that with employees making 60K+, the rule of "cannot find competent employees" does not apply to H1-B, so they should be ok. Does anyone know more about this loophole that the article is talking about?

Re:Not H1-Bs, offshore workers. (1)

HaeMaker (221642) | about 3 months ago | (#46791759)

I don't see anything here that would indicate such a loophole... http://www.uscis.gov/eir/visa-... [uscis.gov]

Re:Not H1-Bs, offshore workers. (4, Insightful)

pixelpusher220 (529617) | about 3 months ago | (#46791755)

As an interesting aside, should 'utilities' providing critical infrastructure be subject to more stringent hiring requirements?

Similar to how national security jobs require a gov't clearance, should workers on critical infrastructure require similar concept of vetting?

Combination of both (5, Informative)

Jmstuckman (561420) | about 3 months ago | (#46791801)

According to the article, they are outsourcing the work to an offshore IT firm. This IT firm, in turn, will give the work to a US location, which staffs itself with H-1B workers. The effect is that US-based workers are being laid off and indirectly replaced with H-1Bs.

Re:Combination of both (4, Insightful)

ebno-10db (1459097) | about 3 months ago | (#46791975)

Which is exactly why an Indian commerce minister referred to the H-1B as the "outsourcing visa". It's not an either/or situation - the H-1B visa helps enable outsourcing/offshoring.

Re:Not H1-Bs, offshore workers. (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 months ago | (#46792083)

In these types of arrangements you're basically right: Most work is performed in India, however there is SOME work that is done by U.S.-based Indian workers that are possibly H1-B. I've been a part of a major outsourcing effort by an F500 - first thing the CIO did, actually, after he was hired - and this was what happened: The North American help desk - once based in Texas - was shuttered in a matter of weeks and the work went to Wipro and the application-specific support went to what was then Satiyam, whose founder-CEO later got embroiled in a big accounting scandal. Many of the Wipro staff however was definitely based in the U.S., mainly to interface with the IT execs and deal with the transition but also to stay engaged with the business. With many millions on the line annually it behooves the outsourcing entity to stay on top of their contractual agreements, which are quite detailed on any outsourcing arrangement. There were also high-level (tier III and higher) IT ops engineers (the few that actually knew what they were doing) who were also Stateside.

In any case SCE's arrangement doesn't necessarily sound like they are using H1B - from a legal perspective, anyway, but symbolically they might be.

Re:Not H1-Bs, offshore workers. (1)

BradMajors (995624) | about 3 months ago | (#46792299)

1) The government does not bother to enforce this law.
2) The law says you can not sue unless you are personally affected.

IMPOSSIBLE (4, Insightful)

Billly Gates (198444) | about 3 months ago | (#46791599)

H1B1 Visa's are only because there are not enough applicants to fill a position. Just ask any republican and they will tell you and set the facts straight in interest of protecting the workers.

It is illegal not to pay an H1B1 Visa worker less than a qualified worker. It is stated so it must be true!

Re:IMPOSSIBLE (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 months ago | (#46791843)

All those damn Republican Californians!

Re:IMPOSSIBLE (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 months ago | (#46791901)

Go a few miles outside the cities and it is mostly Republican.

Re:IMPOSSIBLE (3, Interesting)

ebno-10db (1459097) | about 3 months ago | (#46792037)

Go a few miles outside the cities and it is mostly Republican.

Nevertheless CA is primarily a blue state. I'm not sticking up for the R's here - just pointing out that with many issues the D's are also busy screwing Americans. The D's whore for money too, and much of theirs comes from the tech industry. One of the few people in congress to oppose some of this H-1B crap is Chuck Grassley, who's an R.

Re:IMPOSSIBLE (4, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 months ago | (#46791991)

The problem is that the race to the bottom has began, and I doubt it will end until we hit it. If it is cheaper to pay someone else to do the job, be it in another state, another country, or simply to ship in the workers they are going to do it, and if they can't do it, they will try to move the job itself to that other country or other state. Heck if they are just moving jobs to other states they can just call it a reorg and not even get any bad press about it, even though the key purpose was to surplus all those pesky highly paid workers who had devoted much of their lives to a particular company. The guys in charge are betting they can improve the balance sheet while they are there, then get a nice bonus for it, and if it all falls apart later, well they are likely gone or retired by then, so its not their problem.

Sure you could setup sane rules to minimize it, but it is not easy, or at least the politicians make it more difficult than it needs to be. For instance, if the country that your buying all this stuff from has poor environmental laws, well then that country is basically not charging what is required to clean up their own mess, so the logical thing to do is to tarrif it in a measured way so at least society can somewhat deal with the mess later, or at the very least make the playing field a touch more level. At any rate, the reason the United States can't compete with manufacturing/labor/etc is as much as anything about the unlevel playing field. We find rules about safe working conditions and pollution to be a good thing, but hapilly ignore that others are less concerned with such things if we can buy a $200 television.

The other common thing about jobs these days is companies have little loyalty to their employees, so of course their employees have little loyalty to the company either. This leads to companies always asking for employees that are tailor fit for a very obscure job, which of course they often can't find, since that job may be brand new and short term. So the company does a token search, fails to find the non existent expert on widget series 12 when combined with gear series 13 and 20 years experience with the new fad computer language that has only been out five, and of course concludes that it is H-1B time. Sure the employee may be even less skilled than those that were actually available, but hey he or she is cheap and leashed directly to the company of interest so they will spend some effort training him or her. Perhaps in the end they saved no actual money due to all the project delays, but they did save money on paper initially, and that is what is most important.

Re:IMPOSSIBLE (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 months ago | (#46792049)

If only there were organized groups of laborers that were able to band together to protect each others rights.

Re:IMPOSSIBLE (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 months ago | (#46792057)

And another cock sucking Kool Aid drinker.

Tell me something asshole. Your heroes had complete control for TWO FUCKING YEARS. Why didn't they fix this?

Re:IMPOSSIBLE (1)

Culture20 (968837) | about 3 months ago | (#46792187)

Don't ask what the H1N1 Visas are for.

Re:IMPOSSIBLE (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 months ago | (#46792197)

> H1B1 Visa's are only because there are not enough applicants to fill a position. Just ask any republican and they will tell you and set the facts straight in interest of protecting the workers.

Ironically, blue states make much heavier use of the H1-B program than red states. Those evil, evil republicans just don't use it to the same extent that those equality-loving Californians do.

Re:IMPOSSIBLE (1)

jedidiah (1196) | about 3 months ago | (#46792357)

Cost of living also tends to be higher in those Blue states. So this is a nice double whammy from states that are supposed to have more intrusive and effective governance.

So much for that idea...

Re:IMPOSSIBLE (0, Troll)

Eravnrekaree (467752) | about 3 months ago | (#46792329)

Democrats love stealing jobs from Americans as well. Democrats though particularly love victimizing and stealing jobs from low income americans by replacing them with illegal aliens. Though, Democrats i am sure are fine with the H1B program, anything other than American is preferable to them, they have such a hatred of natural born American citizens they will do anything they can to undermine them, ruin their lives, steal their jobs, etc. They will then steal your money and give it to the illegal aliens in the form of welfare fraud which democrats actually love and want.

Re:IMPOSSIBLE (1, Flamebait)

Hategrin (3579025) | about 3 months ago | (#46792437)

+1.

I live 15 miles from the Mexican border, I heard all the Liberal rhetoric when I was in college from my Govt and English professors. But you know what? All I had to do was look around and notice that the MAJORITY of the people here have 12 kids, no job, and do nothing but sit around and watch soap operas (novellas), sell/snort cocaine and benzos (they get them from the state mental health office), have a habit of using homophobic slurs and curses at their husbands/children/public, and blaming all their "problems" (anytime someone refuses a handout) on the "gringo".

It's not any better at the college level as the colleges cater to these degenerate self-inflicted morons. Every time homework was assigned all the women would all at once exclaim "aaaaaaayeee siiiiiiiiir", and the college/professors would cave in because the campus first priority is to collect as much taxpayer money (pell grants) as they possibly can. In short, democrats and their "welfare for votes aka social justice" campaign has ruined every level of our society. Democrats know this, it's no wonder they want to hire H1Bs from a non welfare state (instead of an American Community College aka idiot factory) whenever it comes to a business they themselves are invested in.

Re:IMPOSSIBLE (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 months ago | (#46792433)

Just ask any republican or democrat and they will tell you and set the facts straight in interest of protecting the workers.

Fixed that for ya. But yes, you got it partially correct.

Tech workers only? (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 months ago | (#46791603)

Are the management jobs safe because they provide such incredible expertise and knowledge that can only come from white people?

Re:Tech workers only? (2)

WillAffleckUW (858324) | about 3 months ago | (#46791923)

Are the management jobs safe because they provide such incredible expertise and knowledge that can only come from white people?

No, there is a growing move to outsource Lawyer jobs too.

H-1B or offshore? (4, Insightful)

qbzzt (11136) | about 3 months ago | (#46791607)

If you offshore a position, it is in India (for example) and you don't need an H1-B visa.

Re:H-1B or offshore? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 months ago | (#46791707)

Actually, given that the top companies for H1Bs are offshoring firms, [computerworld.com] it may be a little of column A and a little of column B -- i.e., offshoring and using H1Bs to help the offshoring, or split time between countries.

Re:H-1B or offshore? (1)

qbzzt (11136) | about 3 months ago | (#46792177)

Good point. It is probably easier for people who are culturally Indian to manage workers in India from the US.

hey, check out Yemen Systems Associates (1)

swschrad (312009) | about 3 months ago | (#46791609)

they're offshore, they're cheaper than dust, and they're all religious fanatics. can't offshore more thoroughly than that for life-critical, society-critical infrastructure.

you guys, really, your ties are way, way too tight.

Outsourcing! Management Sux! What?!? (4, Insightful)

Virtucon (127420) | about 3 months ago | (#46791621)

This is an outrage! Companies outsourcing jobs overseas! Management is concerned about perception rather than substance!

What fucking decade are we living in here folks?!? This isn't news but it is confirmation that US companies are full of douche bags.

Re:Outsourcing! Management Sux! What?!? (4, Insightful)

gandhi_2 (1108023) | about 3 months ago | (#46791683)

The labor market is a market. They have labor to supply.
Borders don't keep the jobs in any more than they keep people out.

Re:Outsourcing! Management Sux! What?!? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 months ago | (#46791947)

Borders don't keep the jobs in any more than they keep people out.

Only when you design it that way.

When you factor in productivity, benefits, and inflation, the median hourly wage has dropped by half the last 40 years. The scariest thing is that we've done it to ourselves. We're now the "Marketing Generation" that demands lies over truth.

Re:Outsourcing! Management Sux! What?!? (1)

Tablizer (95088) | about 3 months ago | (#46792161)

But third-world labor is often cheaper because those countries don't have and/or enforce labor, safety, and pollution laws. Should we trash the USA in order to compete with those used to living in trashy country?

Further, individuals here don't have the ability to change their entire country even if they personally wanted the trade-offs offered by such an Ayn Rand "paradise".

And why reward trashy countries for being trashy by giving them our jobs? We should encourage them to get civilized.

Re:Outsourcing! Management Sux! What?!? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 months ago | (#46792417)

I can keep the jobs inside the border. You enact a tariff on goods and services that could be produced in the US to bring the cost of those goods and services to the same level to produce them in the US.

Bam. Problem solved. Who said I want to keep people out. After my tariff is enacted there will be plenty of jobs in the US.

Re:Outsourcing! Management Sux! What?!? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 months ago | (#46791903)

You don't like market economy? Are you a communist?

Re:Outsourcing! Management Sux! What?!? (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 months ago | (#46791981)

Well, the US ordinary population is full of douchebags, so it's hard to feel sympathy for you.

Good luck with that (5, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 months ago | (#46791637)

Has anyone, anywhere, seen an instance where a move like this actually works out well? I sure haven't. Communication issues, poor worker training and expertise, high turnover. The 'savings' look good on paper, but in the end it's a disaster.

Re:Good luck with that (4, Interesting)

pixelpusher220 (529617) | about 3 months ago | (#46791765)

Worked well enough for my Dad at Xerox. Granted he got laid off for a couple years but got rehired when it went to shit and got quite the hefty raise and extra retirement out of the deal :)

Not a plan I'd recommend obviously, but hey :)

Re:Good luck with that (1)

BradMajors (995624) | about 3 months ago | (#46792313)

Yes. For a company that was really badly managed I have seen off-shoring chunks of work to India work. Basically because the Indian project management was better than the American project management.

Tata! (4, Funny)

QilessQi (2044624) | about 3 months ago | (#46791639)

Northeast Utilities, last fall, announced it was outsourcing part of its IT operations to Infosys and another Indian-based IT services giant, Tata Consultancy Services.

I'm sure they were the breast candidate for the task.

Re:Tata! (1)

nobuddy (952985) | about 3 months ago | (#46791829)

Anectdote:
I was in Kandahar and I saw this large breasted Army girl leaning on a new pickup. It was a Tata, and sitting right next to an identical one.
I could not resist.
"Nice tatas!"

Re:Tata! (1)

simishag (744368) | about 3 months ago | (#46792359)

Well, they did say "it is more important to focus on how things look from the top than how they actually are down below".

they couldn't have just read Dilbert? (1)

YesIAmAScript (886271) | about 3 months ago | (#46791649)

'employees perceive managers to be more concerned about how they 'look' from above, and less concerned about how they are viewed by their subordinates. This fosters an unhealthy culture and climate by sending a message to employees that it is more important to focus on how things look from the top than how they actually are down below.'

You don't need to commission an expensive report to find out stuff like this. It's so universal it's seen everywhere.

Heck, Scott Adams who writes Dilbert was employed by Pacific Bell, which is not so completely different than Southern California Edison.

Re:they couldn't have just read Dilbert? (1)

Tablizer (95088) | about 3 months ago | (#46792207)

It's so universal it's seen everywhere.

Managers should also be formally judged by their underlings. If they score low or fail to improve in problem categories, they get docked pay.

It can be an anonymous survey with 20 or so categories such as "Shows respect to me (employee)", "Explains my tasks clearly", "Listens to and thoughtfully considers my opinion", "Gives me meaningful and relevant work", "Explains the purpose of my work in terms of organizational goals", etc.

So what they're really saying. (4, Insightful)

rmdingler (1955220) | about 3 months ago | (#46791665)

Southern California Edison has collectively determined that it is impossible to change the work atmosphere from the top down,

so they'll be needing to import some workers who are better suited to the type of shop they run:

Work the hands like a rented mule.

note that the 'workplace shooting' citation... (1)

turkeydance (1266624) | about 3 months ago | (#46791671)

will now outsource to whereverstan.

What is with humans and fixing symptoms (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 months ago | (#46791675)

not the underlying root cause.
employees perceive managers to be more concerned about how they 'look' from above, and less concerned about how they are viewed by their subordinates. This fosters an unhealthy culture and climate by sending a message to employees that it is more important to focus on how things look from the top than how they actually are down below.'
So, instead of fixing their culture of mistrusted management, management instead replaces all of the people who don't trust them with people who are just happy to have a job. It's like a metaphor for everything humanity touches.

Re:What is with humans and fixing symptoms (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 months ago | (#46792051)

Its prolly more about not giving a fuck about the cause - the 'symptoms' are negative people in the lower ranks who care about the poor performance of management, or the poor delivery of quality to the customer. Sadly, not making that up. Management run around making themselves look good at any cost. The lower ones with some idea of whats going on get ostracised for being complainers if they point out problems. Get rid of em, off shore it that'll show em.

What is an H-1B worker? (1)

angel'o'sphere (80593) | about 3 months ago | (#46791679)

?
We germans have no idea :)

Re:What is an H-1B worker? (4, Informative)

byteherder (722785) | about 3 months ago | (#46791725)

A H-1B worker is a worker on a temporary work visa in the U.S. They are usually IT workers.

Company bring them in claiming they cannot find 'qualified' U.S. worker but really do it just to hire cheaper foreign labor.

Re:What is an H-1B worker? (1)

ebno-10db (1459097) | about 3 months ago | (#46792071)

I think it'd help to mention that temporary means 3-6 years, and that losing your job means losing your legal immigration status in the US. It's also very difficult for H-1B's to change jobs. They're wonderfully captive labor.

Re:What is an H-1B worker? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 months ago | (#46792201)

And this is why they work long weeks without complaints.

Re:What is an H-1B worker? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 months ago | (#46792429)

No it's not at all difficult for a H1-B worker to change jobs. Why do people keep saying that?

1. Interview and find a better job just like anyone else (higher paying, better conditions\benefits, betting project, all of the above)
2. New employer puts transfer paperwork in the mailbox to the government (really just a notification)
3. Move to new employer

Re:What is an H-1B worker? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 months ago | (#46792435)

ps: source - I hire H1-B workers (and US citizens, and workers on various other work visas) that are moving from other US companies all the time.

Re:What is an H-1B worker? (1)

rmdingler (1955220) | about 3 months ago | (#46791731)

If your job pays you a decent living there is some chance it could be outsourced, generally across a border, to save the company from having to provide you and yours that extravagant middle class existence. The Acronym for this phenomenon = H-1B

Uh. no (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 months ago | (#46791895)

H1B's are in the borders of the US and pay US taxes. They are not in another country.

Re:Uh. no (1)

jedidiah (1196) | about 3 months ago | (#46792381)

So it's local outsourcing. They're still taking away your job so that they can give it to someone that isn't in as good of a bargaining position. It doesn't matter if it's some guy in a 3rd world country, or some guy that's visiting from a 3rd world country who gets to be treated like dirt.

Both "illegals" and H1-B's fall into this sort of 3rd world underclass.

As if we didn't already have enough pockets of 3rd world fester...

Re:What is an H-1B worker? (1)

PolygamousRanchKid (1290638) | about 3 months ago | (#46791855)

Gastarbeiter

Talk of creating an H-1B program in Germany a while back created a backlash phrase: "Leiber Kinder statt Inder!"

Re:What is an H-1B worker? (1)

ebno-10db (1459097) | about 3 months ago | (#46792059)

Translation?

Re:What is an H-1B worker? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 months ago | (#46792133)

Better have children than Indians.

In German it rhymes.

Re:What is an H-1B worker? (1)

PolygamousRanchKid (1290638) | about 3 months ago | (#46792167)

Gast = Guest, Arbeiter = Worker . . . so Gastarbeiter = Guest-worker. If you liked playing with Lego, you'll love German.

"Lieber Kinder statt Inder!" means, Rather children instead of Indians! Which meant that the government should pay more attention to social programs encouraging working women to have children, and investing more in tech training for German students . . . instead of importing (cheap) foreign talent.

Of course, the whole plan was a ruse by companies who wanted to drive down the wages of IT workers.

Ahh Yes the trend continues.. (3, Insightful)

bobbied (2522392) | about 3 months ago | (#46791689)

First, we lost manufacturing jobs.... Then the engineering jobs started going off shore. So why are we surprised when the IT jobs do too?

I feel for the youngsters coming out of college with a STEM degree these days. Huge student loan debt and fewer and fewer prospects..

Re:Ahh Yes the trend continues.. (1)

rmdingler (1955220) | about 3 months ago | (#46791795)

There are still advantages to employing local workers in most countries (including the U.S.) but until the playing field levels out a bit,

the discrepancy is too great between what the rich nation's populace is willing to work for vis a vis what the poor nation's people will accept.

Also, too, and neither should we discount the perceived value to a big company of another work force's local climate for labor laws and litigiousness.

Re:Ahh Yes the trend continues.. (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 months ago | (#46792159)

reminds me someone posted:

First they came after union workers, but I didn't speak out because I'm not a union member.
Then they came after engineers, but I didn't speak out because I'm not an engineer.
Then they came after network administrators, but I didn't speak out because most NAs are assholes.
Then they came after me, and there was nobody left to speak out after me.

This needs to be Illegal (3, Insightful)

l0ungeb0y (442022) | about 3 months ago | (#46791715)

Under no circumstances should any Utility in the US be allowed to Off-Shore IT operations of it's Infrastructure to Foreign Entities -- doing so opens up the possibility of access being given to enemies of the US or US-based interests by employees of the IT company or by the IT company itself if it comes under the influence or control of enemies of the US.

The ability to fuck with the infrastructure providing power to all of Southern California is a capability no one should be able to hand over to foreign nationals. The Federal Government needs to shove their foot right up the collective asses of Cal Eds Senior Management and Board.

Re:This needs to be Illegal (0)

bobbied (2522392) | about 3 months ago | (#46791783)

Wait a min... This is a democracy you know..

First there has to be a law to enforce... THEN you get out the jackboots and brown shirts..

Re:This needs to be Illegal (3, Insightful)

ebno-10db (1459097) | about 3 months ago | (#46792093)

Nice try at a slur. There is nothing new, unusual, un-Constitutional or unreasonable about requiring that vital functions in the US be performed by US based entities.

Re:This needs to be Illegal (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 months ago | (#46792407)

Under no circumstances

Oh please, just because they have a government-protected monopoly that is backed-up at gun point doesn't mean they owe us anything. Well, that is the Republican belief. They don't believe in competition. They believe in granting monopolies. Despite their claims of being capitalistic, they have never supported competition. That is why they want all companies that are not in the Fortune 100 to die.

Unions (3, Insightful)

rsilvergun (571051) | about 3 months ago | (#46791797)

Organization (via Unions) is the only solution I can think of to this. Sure, we could call it something else, but it's basically Unions.

Un-Organized workers are too weak to demand or get better wages or a better way of life. Life basically stunk for everyone but a few kings thousands of years. It still stinks if you're not in one of the countries with a strong, well organized pool of labor that has solidarity. Sure, a few on /. might "Got Mine, FU" right now. But the powers that be are coming for you too....

Re:Unions (0)

zippthorne (748122) | about 3 months ago | (#46791851)

So, you're going to solve being fired en-masse by banding together and refusing to go to work? Good luck with that plan.

Re:Unions (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 months ago | (#46792043)

The powers that be have successfully done a good job at minimizing unions and nothing stops companies from shipping the work away from a unionized site. It's all math, and if the math benefits avoiding the union, they will avoid the union.

I think it mostly comes down to the fact that our representatives aren't representative. They are indirectly employed not by the people but by corporate or other large interests. At this point I'm fairly certain that picking educated people at random for limited terms would have better results.

Uh... change companies? (1)

xeroized (2558611) | about 3 months ago | (#46791833)

Never understood why people say "my job sucks so bad" for so long that they will get to the point of workplace violence and/or suicide. It's ridiculous. If you don't like your job, leave. Those workers brought this upon themselves. They had a workplace shooting, and then complained it was managements fault? I'm not in Management, I am an IT Administrator, I deal with 30 projects at a time that I have to keep balanced and running, and I love my job. I didn't a couple jobs back. So I left and went to a new job. And I didn't like that one either, so I left again. Jobs are not that hard to find. I have no sympathy for these people. Now I love my job, and as I watch people lose their jobs to oversea's jobs, I laugh. Because every one of them deserve it. Let's be honest here... you want to work 8am - 5pm with an hour lunch, get paid over $60k a year (more in higher standard states), get bonuses and have a nice cushy job? That's absurd. I work over 50 hours a week, and I make over 100k a year because of the quality of my work, and how much I work. And no, I don't have a college degree, and I am in my mid twenties. Come on people, wake up.

Re:Uh... change companies? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 months ago | (#46791919)

delusional capitalist scum like you need to be put down

Re:Uh... change companies? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 months ago | (#46791921)

I work over 50 hours a week, and I make over 100k a year because of the quality of my work, and how much I work. And no, I don't have a college degree, and I am in my mid twenties.

As somebody in his mid forties and is still successfully in the game, I can tell you authoritatively that you think you are winning, but you are not.

Re:Uh... change companies? (1)

khallow (566160) | about 3 months ago | (#46792005)

Yea, when you're a bit older, and have grown that money to a nice nest egg so that you don't need to work ever (at least till the economy crashes again), then you can say that you've won that particular game

Re:Uh... change companies? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 months ago | (#46791987)

In other words, they haven't figured out how to pay some Indian 1/4 as much for the same job.

Re:Uh... change companies? (1)

khellendros1984 (792761) | about 3 months ago | (#46792091)

Let's be honest here... you want to work 8am - 5pm with an hour lunch, get paid over $60k a year (more in higher standard states), get bonuses and have a nice cushy job? That's absurd.

Absurd? It describes my current work situation closely. Well, if you exclude the pay and hours; my pay is in the ballpark of yours, and my hours aren't as rigid as "8-5 with an hour lunch". Still, there's always something better and always something worse. It's important to be able to find satisfaction in whatever job you're doing, and you seem to have done that just fine.

The King of 18th Century England Called (0)

retroworks (652802) | about 3 months ago | (#46791837)

He wants his Outrage back. Protecting "jobs" based on lines drawn on maps is so pre-globalization. Free trade has distributed far more benefits than it has sacrificed. Our children are going to live in a world where fewer people are poor, and maybe they will even marry and have bi-coastal families in the oceanic sense. H1-B is to American progress as interracial basketball league was to the NBA. Let's play ball.

Re:The King of 18th Century England Called (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 months ago | (#46791873)

kill yourself you republican troll

Re:The King of 18th Century England Called (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 months ago | (#46791985)

He could just as well be a social anarchist. Open borders is a very liberal idea.

Re:The King of 18th Century England Called (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 months ago | (#46792101)

we don't have open borders though. i'd support that. we have a rigged system where I'm stuck in the USA but corporations are free to operate anywhere in the world. i'd face huge obstacles to getting a work visa in any developed country because they protect their workers.

Re:The King of 18th Century England Called (4, Insightful)

cyber-vandal (148830) | about 3 months ago | (#46791877)

I have to pay my mortgage now. I can't afford to wait for your utopia.

What benefits? (2, Insightful)

rsilvergun (571051) | about 3 months ago | (#46791885)

Free trade is great if you're a rich capitalist (e.g. someone that makes their living by owning capital). What about the rest of us? There's plenty of evidence to show NAFTA has been a disaster for everyone on both sides of the boarder except a few wealthy factory owners. Google a little and you won't find much to encourage you.

Karl Marx predicted that capital flowing to where labor was cheapest would result in a race to the bottom, but all anyone can remember about him is that a couple famous dictators happen to use his books for their rhetoric. Not that it's hard to predict that.

Re:What benefits? (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 months ago | (#46792011)

Yes. Just ask North Koreans what they think about free trade, what with their not having any. And look how awesome they're doing.

Free trade is nearly always a win-win in the long term. This has been proven both theoretically as well as empirically. But it can create tremendous dislocation in the short term, which is where all your ire comes from. This is why we need things like the basic income.

Re:What benefits? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 months ago | (#46792069)

Yup, NAFTA worked out so well for the average American, who has seen a net decrease in wages since it passed.

Re:What benefits? (3, Insightful)

khallow (566160) | about 3 months ago | (#46792025)

The huge world out there that isn't already part of the developed world is doing well.

Karl Marx predicted that capital flowing to where labor was cheapest would result in a race to the bottom

One of the many things he missed is that it raises the bottom greatly in the process.

Re:What benefits? (1)

ebno-10db (1459097) | about 3 months ago | (#46792141)

Karl Marx predicted that capital flowing to where labor was cheapest would result in a race to the bottom

Which is not all that different from the famous capitalist David Ricardo talking about the "iron law of wages". It's interesting what the two sides agree on.

Re:The King of 18th Century England Called (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 months ago | (#46791937)

Another 200 years and we may even have a middle class again.

Re:The King of 18th Century England Called (1)

Shompol (1690084) | about 3 months ago | (#46791951)

Free trade works well on a level playing field. Factories that process their waste cannot compete with those that dump waste in rivers and smog rest into the air. Workers in free countries cannot compete with slave labour in the overpopulated third world, where 50% of engineers sit unemployed, while the "lucky" ones commit suicides on a regular basis.

Re:The King of 18th Century England Called (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 months ago | (#46791979)

Free trade has distributed far more benefits than it has sacrificed.

To whom?

H1-B is to American progress as interracial basketball league was to the NBA.

Nope.. H1-B is the US economic reactor powering the world, yielding nothing to the working class all while benefitting the 1%. Talk to them over in Western Europe, the same thing is taking hold over there. It's a sucker's game.. a race to the bottom.. and as they say in poker, if you can't figure out who the sucker is, it's you.

Try again tardboy.

Re:The King of 18th Century England Called (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 months ago | (#46792027)

Says the asshole who probably makes a very livable wage.

So H-1B or offshore??? (2)

iamacat (583406) | about 3 months ago | (#46791841)

That would be completely different things with very different consequences. H-1B is a Visa to work in US, so jobs would not be offshored, just outsourced to a contractor (article mentions Infosys). Employees will be still paying taxes, and salaries can not be that low as they incur living expenses similar to US citizens. Added difficulty of changing jobs while on a visa does depress wages to some degree, but IT workers generally expect to live well.

Offshoring of course means no tax revenue for US and much lower living standards and expenses, so low salaries that US residents can not accept without starving.

It's unfortunate that the article doesn't make clear exactly what is happening.

hope someone kills the fuck responsible for (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 months ago | (#46791853)

proposing/starting it. if these management fucks want a class war lets give them a real war.

message to you globalization scum: (2)

c5402dc53929211e1efb (3084201) | about 3 months ago | (#46791883)

I'll support globalization the day I'm free to move to and work in any country I choose.

Re:message to you globalization scum: (3, Insightful)

rk (6314) | about 3 months ago | (#46792261)

Until that day comes, I will refer to globalization with a more accurate name: "neo-feudalism".

You only have to look for ads in India and China (1)

WillAffleckUW (858324) | about 3 months ago | (#46791911)

There are a few nations that provide the bulk of H1-B "workers".

Look at job ads in those locations - those are the people that will replace the US workers.

Dilbert is Real (4, Funny)

Tablizer (95088) | about 3 months ago | (#46792075)

SCE's management culture may be particularly primed for firing its IT workers...One observation in this report...was that 'employees perceive managers to be more concerned about how they 'look' from above, and less concerned about how they are viewed by their subordinates.

PHB1: "This survey shows our employees think we in management are clueless superficial jerks. What do we do about it?"

PHB2: "I got it! Fire them all and outsource their work to new people who don't yet know we are clueless superficial jerks."

PHB1: "Brilliant! Let's vote ourselves a raise for this plan!"

Replace manangement first.... (2)

Lumpy (12016) | about 3 months ago | (#46792175)

H1B's can do the managements job a Lot better and a lot cheaper. There is far more savings in replacing everyone at the manager level and up.

we need basic income and Medicare for All (1)

Joe_Dragon (2206452) | about 3 months ago | (#46792273)

we need basic income and Medicare for All and then we can be ok with outsourcing.

Republicans hate us (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 months ago | (#46792387)

This is what they want done to all IT workers here. As they've said many times, they want us to starve and die. Too bad the new owners of /. are complicit in this. We don't see enough articles that talk about how to defend ourselves from the constant Republican attacks.

Load More Comments
Slashdot Login

Need an Account?

Forgot your password?
or Connect with...

Don't worry, we never post anything without your permission.

Submission Text Formatting Tips

We support a small subset of HTML, namely these tags:

  • b
  • i
  • p
  • br
  • a
  • ol
  • ul
  • li
  • dl
  • dt
  • dd
  • em
  • strong
  • tt
  • blockquote
  • div
  • quote
  • ecode

"ecode" can be used for code snippets, for example:

<ecode>    while(1) { do_something(); } </ecode>