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L.A. Science Teacher Suspended Over Student Science Fair Projects

timothy posted about 3 months ago | from the science-is-sometimes-dangerous dept.

Education 253

An anonymous reader writes "A high school science teacher at Grand Arts High School in Los Angeles was suspended from the classroom in February, after two of his science fair students turned in projects deemed dangerous by the administrators. "One project was a marshmallow shooter — which uses air pressure to launch projectiles. The other was an AA battery-powered coil gun — which uses electromagnetism to launch small objects. Similar projects have been honored in past LA County Science Fairs and even demonstrated at the White House."

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253 comments

Sudden outbreak of common sense (5, Funny)

Hognoxious (631665) | about 3 months ago | (#46801631)

Imagine if these things fell into the hands of tairsts, or pediofiddlers? Someone could lose an eye.

Re:Sudden outbreak of common sense (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 months ago | (#46802035)

ROFL I love the way you said tairsts!

Re:Sudden outbreak of common sense (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 months ago | (#46802045)

I doubt this is about whether the projects are actually dangerous, but the representation of guns being ok in schools.

Re:Sudden outbreak of common sense (5, Interesting)

gman003 (1693318) | about 3 months ago | (#46802295)

tairsts

For a minute I read that as "tsarists", which was arguably more interesting.

Re:Sudden outbreak of common sense (1)

wonkey_monkey (2592601) | about 3 months ago | (#46802419)

Tarsiers [wikipedia.org] ?

That would be adorable.

i would like to suspend the (mis) administrators.. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 months ago | (#46801635)

...from some sort of stock arrangement, where marshmallows and small bits of metal can be shot in their general direction...

Sick Society (5, Insightful)

Jim Sadler (3430529) | about 3 months ago | (#46801651)

Suspending a teacher over such nonsense borders on drooling idiocy or insanity. Any decent science class unavoidably teaches students to build devices that might be used to do harm. If you teach a kid in chemistry class how not to make an explosion you are also telling him exactly how to create an explosion. That does not imply that teachers should not teach chemistry.

Re:Sick Society (-1, Flamebait)

sumdumass (711423) | about 3 months ago | (#46801729)

Give up. This is not about science, it is about tje progressive anti-gun stance. Any resemblence to science is ancillary to the point. Any previous simularities that might resemble precedence is irrelevant. It simply doesn't follow the modern libersl fear of guns in a world of zero tolorance where pointing a finger in the right way or eating a pop tart the wrong way will get a kid suspended. We simply cannot have young people growing up not afraid of guns so they will support gun control ehen they can vote.

Re:Sick Society (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 months ago | (#46801837)

I need guns because Barack Hussein Obama is an atheist muslin, and because Jesus!

'Murika!

Re:Sick Society (5, Insightful)

bill_mcgonigle (4333) | about 3 months ago | (#46801863)

This is not about science, it is about tje progressive anti-gun stance.

Seriously - stop spreading their propaganda. They explicitly want those in power to have all the guns they need. They just want the People to be disarmed and figure their friends will be in power.

This is not at all an anti-gun stance, it's a central-control stance. This gives them a sense of security, like those living under Mao or Pol Pot.

Re:Sick Society (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 months ago | (#46802013)

It is about neither.

It is about government and teachers going against well-heeled, blood-drenched groups like the NRA to stop the constant chain of funerals in our cities. The US is tops of the list of gun violence for any country with a stable government. Getting the guns off the streets should be a priority of our elected officials. Even heroes like Bloomberg are donating parts of this wealth so kids can grow up and not wind up in body bags.

Lets be real. Obama is not Mao, nor is he Pol Pot. Nor is the US firing up ovens in the FEMA camps. Schools just want to do their part asked of them by society and curb the unending wave of violence.

Re:Sick Society (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 months ago | (#46802281)

If that was the case then perhaps the schools could do or say something about the unending stream of wars that the USA seems to enjoy engaging in.

Fuck you and all your hypocritical kind.

Re:Sick Society (4, Interesting)

Attila Dimedici (1036002) | about 3 months ago | (#46802311)

Yeah, that explains why the cities with the strictest gun control laws have the lowest murder rates and those with the laws making it easier for law-abiding citizens to own and carry guns have the highest murder rates...No, wait, it's the other way around. If you actually look at the facts it turns out that it is people like Bloomberg who are blood-drenched and the NRA who are the heroes.

Re:Sick Society (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 months ago | (#46802351)

Because there are metal detectors at the city limits? Seriously, why is it that dumbasses like you like to pretend like the fact that criminals don't cross city lines where there is 0% chance of being searched?

As long as the NRA and RWNJ refuse to acknowledge that we have a gun problem, not a people problem, the deaths will continue and there will be nothing to stop it.There's absolutely no reason why people need the sorts of firearms that the NRA insists are necessary for self defence. If people didn't have such easy access to them, the criminals wouldn't need them and as such wouldn't bother.

Re:Sick Society (0)

schwit1 (797399) | about 3 months ago | (#46802315)

Bloomberg is a hypocrite, not a hero. He's all for disarming the general populace since he has the money to live in a secure home and hire armed guards for personal protection. The rest of us don't have that luxury and must fend for ourselves.

Re:Sick Society (-1, Troll)

DexterIsADog (2954149) | about 3 months ago | (#46802401)

Bloomberg is a hypocrite, not a hero. He's all for disarming the general populace since he has the money to live in a secure home and hire armed guards for personal protection. The rest of us don't have that luxury and must fend for ourselves.

If you "fend for yourself" with a gun, you're more likely to be murdered by it than to save the life of you or someone you love. Never mind the chance your young child will blow off his head, or that of a friend.

Re:Sick Society (2, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 months ago | (#46802461)

If you "fend for yourself" with a gun, you're more likely to be murdered by it than to save the life of you or someone you love.

completely untrue, but keep spreading brady lies like they're truths and eventually some retards will believe you.

Re:Sick Society (1)

BiIl_the_Engineer (3618863) | about 3 months ago | (#46802359)

Nonsense. If that's the case, they should be going after actual guns (Not that I would support them, but if that's their goal, then this doesn't make sense.), not science projects. This does nothing to curb violence. It's all about controlling people with their nonsensical zero tolerance policies.

Re:Sick Society (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 months ago | (#46802475)

Nonsense. If that's the case, they should be going after actual guns

there are over 100,000,000 gun owners in the united states, owning more than 300,000,000 guns.

you cannot "go after guns" and expect to accompish anything in one year or even ten years. you have to play the long game, and that includes any number of tactics, including conditioning kids into being so scared of even talking about anything remotely related to firearms, so that 50-100 years from now, gun owners are a tiny minority, at which point there's no real opposition to your idiotic control schemes, because really, gun control is people control.

british history lesson: http://www.guncite.com/journals/okslip.html

Re:Sick Society (1, Insightful)

thegarbz (1787294) | about 3 months ago | (#46802043)

No it's not anti-gun, you're talking about a country who believe their right to own guns trumps all other rights thanks to a document written many years ago.

This is all about thinking of the children. It would have been no different if they made little mini bombs, or used fire, or anything else that they should be teaching in chemistry these days. I wonder what it would be like if they distilled alcohol at the science fair. God forbid they use little magnet toys for something.

After all we're talking about a country where toy magents are banned even from adults because it killed 2 kids, but rifles are available off the shelf to suit kids. [crickett.com]

Re:Sick Society (-1, Offtopic)

neurophil12 (1054552) | about 3 months ago | (#46802107)

Really, insightful? I'm thinking "Troll" would be more appropriate. I just had mod points a few days ago too :/

Progressives are *not* anti-gun ... (3, Interesting)

drnb (2434720) | about 3 months ago | (#46802289)

... it is about tje progressive anti-gun stance ...

Progressives are *not* anti-gun, neither are environmentalists, etc. Ex. Teddy Roosevelt was known to be a fan of target shooting and hunting.

Call it what it is, the radical left. Don't let the radical left redefine and despoil the term "progressive" and they did "liberal".

Re:Sick Society (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 months ago | (#46801747)

It is insane, in fact insane people are more sane than this. I feel sorry for the poor teacher. I grew up in the 50's and sure wouldn't have survived these times.

Re:Sick Society (5, Insightful)

litehacksaur111 (2895607) | about 3 months ago | (#46801753)

This is exactly what is wrong with the schools here. Stupid administrators making decisions on what should and should not be taught in the classroom and disciplining teachers for actually inspiring their students to think and build things. All administrators want nowadays are kids who are only capable of mindlessly following a given set of instructions.

Re:Sick Society (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 months ago | (#46801761)

Things have changed. Perhaps you have forgotten about all of Jon Katz's posts concerning "the post-9/11 world". Whatever happened to him anyway?

Re:Sick Society (2)

Billly Gates (198444) | about 3 months ago | (#46801805)

I looked at this as the administrator was fine combing and looking for a reason to fire him/her.

It is hard to fire tenured teachers and many have resorted to doing things like complaining on their credential to professional boards as an example to find something to fire them etc.

Get rid of tenure and the problem goes away and they do not have to make up excuses. My exwife was a teacher and you wouldn't believe the crap they tried to pull to make her quit. Of course she is very opinion oriented which didn't help and caused the situation.

Re:Sick Society (5, Insightful)

GrumpySteen (1250194) | about 3 months ago | (#46801857)

So you think that schools would be better if it was easy to fire teachers who had opinions that differed from the administrations, leaving only the mindlessly obedient ones to teach the nations children how to also be mindlessly obedient?

Re:Sick Society (1, Offtopic)

Billly Gates (198444) | about 3 months ago | (#46801947)

So you think that schools would be better if it was easy to fire teachers who had opinions that differed from the administrations, leaving only the mindlessly obedient ones to teach the nations children how to also be mindlessly obedient?

Lets turn the tables?

Do you and I have the right to piss off management and our bosses? What makes them so special? Do we need to be mindlessly obedient at work? Yes. Do not like the door is right there etc!

Yes this sucks in life, however it is setup that way for a reason. Shit needs to get done and bosses need to discipline and control their employees to make sure things are running smoothly. If not then their jobs are on the line. Sucks worse for them than it does for us if you think about it?

There are bad employees everywhere and teachers are not any different. If a teacher can not work with staff or perform their expectations to raise the test scores and teach they need to leave. Here is another table turning. Would you want your kids to be taught by an incompetent teacher? I think not and they take our money as tax payers.

Re:Sick Society (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 months ago | (#46802145)

You miss the point. You fire a teacher if he is not doing his job, teaching. You don't fire a teacher because he disagrees with your bullshit. Competent teachers don't need administrators to tell them how or what to teach, they need them to provide support (like functioning printers and paper) and disciplining students, if needed. Thin-skinned administrators who mistake themselves for "bosses" are always a problem. Dealing with classrooms full of children is more than enough work--who wants to have to worry about constantly kissing some insecure fool's ass.

Re:Sick Society (1)

Billly Gates (198444) | about 3 months ago | (#46802391)

You miss the point. You fire a teacher if he is not doing his job, teaching. You don't fire a teacher because he disagrees with your bullshit. Competent teachers don't need administrators to tell them how or what to teach, they need them to provide support (like functioning printers and paper) and disciplining students, if needed. Thin-skinned administrators who mistake themselves for "bosses" are always a problem. Dealing with classrooms full of children is more than enough work--who wants to have to worry about constantly kissing some insecure fool's ass.

Stop right there.

Yes, a boss has a right to complain if you do not perform your job a. what b, when and c. how it is done to his or her specifications. Do not like then go get another job. Dealing with a classroom full of children is part of the job and yes a teacher needs to worry about kissing ass because it is part of the job. The teacher agreed to it right?

This is no different than any other position out there. Doesn't matter if you feel the job sucks, easy, hard, whatever. You agree agree and a boss watches over to make sure things are moving smoothly. If not then the boss can't do the job and the customer looses. In this case the students and parents.

It is up to the teacher not the principal to discipline kids. Ask anyone in the teaching profession. If the principal has to do your job then you suck as a teacher and can't manage your classroom. It is part of the job description.

Re:Sick Society (4, Interesting)

GrumpySteen (1250194) | about 3 months ago | (#46802193)

Do you and I have the right to piss off management and our bosses? What makes them so special?

You don't seem to understand what tenure is. Tenure doesn't protect teachers from being fired if they act irresponsibly or do not do their job. Tenure only protects the teacher from being fired without just cause.

The case here is really the question of whether allowing a student to build a marshmallow gun powered by compressed air represents just cause. The administration says it is, but they have an axe to grind with the teacher in question because he's also a union representative, etc. (as detailed in other comments)

The suggest that the solution is to just give the administrators the right to fire all teachers without any justification for the firing is idiotic.

Re:Sick Society (1)

Billly Gates (198444) | about 3 months ago | (#46802411)

Do you and I have the right to piss off management and our bosses? What makes them so special?

You don't seem to understand what tenure is. Tenure doesn't protect teachers from being fired if they act irresponsibly or do not do their job. Tenure only protects the teacher from being fired without just cause.

The case here is really the question of whether allowing a student to build a marshmallow gun powered by compressed air represents just cause. The administration says it is, but they have an axe to grind with the teacher in question because he's also a union representative, etc. (as detailed in other comments)

The suggest that the solution is to just give the administrators the right to fire all teachers without any justification for the firing is idiotic.

My exwife and I worked at school districts. Trust me if administrators want a 1 and 1 they get a stiff rebuke email from the union rep threatening job termination without the union there! What the hell?

Do I get this at my job? No. I am employed at will. So you are stumpy. It is in good taste and for fear of liability that we have an HR representative due the threatening and a humiliating letter 3 times in a row and then a box and boot out the door after time# 3.

Yes some may want to mod me down after reading the last paragraph or think I am being a dick, but I am just the messenger here. Remember at work it is always about the customer. Not you. Kids and parents are the customers.

This is what it is like everywhere and if principals had more authority our schools would be better. Yes I will concede teachers put up with a lot of crap and have big responsibilities. I understand that.

But understand the lack of firing people make them do batshit stuff like claiming "... not dressing appropriately " in their teaching certificate or making up stuff in science fairs. It is standard procedures in the teaching world when someone is tenured or the union rep says "NO! You may not put down such and such in this write up ... etc" so this is a way around it.

I have seen this at 2 different school districts.

Wrong viewpoint (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 months ago | (#46802459)

Remember at work it is always about the customer. Not you. Kids and parents are the customers.

Wrong-o. Society is the customer and that's why it is society, not the kids and not the parents, who pays the bill for tuition though high school.

Re:Sick Society (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 months ago | (#46801951)

That's the situation we have at our college. A department head was recently fired for disagreeing with the dean. Our dean was stocking shelves at K-Mart just a few years ago. Seriously, it's on his CV. The person who was fired is a West Point graduate who finally had enough of our dean's lack of concern for our students.

Mindless obedience is exactly what they want.

Re:Sick Society (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 months ago | (#46802021)

Well do you get special treatment at your job?

No

The reason why is yes it can be abused, but the need to be efficient and serve customers is more important than the rights of workers. Troublemakers who are decisive can really make your life hell if you need to manage something.

If he or she can not work with you they must go or you will go when they fuck something up. Now which is unfair?

Want a bad teacher teaching your kids? I think not. What about the childrens' and parents rights? Don't they count? They count more than the teacher as they are hired to serve them logically speaking right? Not the other way around.

Re:Sick Society (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 months ago | (#46801895)

Thats what it was. This teacher pissed off a school board member or something. It was mentioned in the comments on another site when the story went around.

Just local politics needing to find some excuse to get rid of someone.

Complete bullshit. But that's our system. The biggest turds float to the top.

Re:Sick Society (5, Interesting)

meerling (1487879) | about 3 months ago | (#46801827)

Go to the article source and read the comments.
There are a number of them by the locals involved with that school.
It looks like this is a not uncommon tactic variation certain higher ups use to punish those they don't like, as well as those peoples supporters.
All very questionable and completely unethical. Hopefully this time it backfires in a big way.

Re:Sick Society (1)

Nidi62 (1525137) | about 3 months ago | (#46801831)

These days my high school physics instructor would probably have gotten in trouble or us students would have gotten arrested for bringing weapons to school when we had to design and build trebuchets and catapaults to launch tennis balls.

Re:Sick Society (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 months ago | (#46801841)

The teacher should be jailed and the students subjected to intensive and lifelong therapy. How can they call this "science" when it involves neither endangered species nor oppressed communities. Time for a revival of electoshock counselling.

Re:Sick Society (0)

russotto (537200) | about 3 months ago | (#46801903)

They should love the sociology project I suggested, then -- feeding endangered species to members of oppressed communities.

Re:Sick Society (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 months ago | (#46801909)

Science is not required to form good little consumer drones that always follow the rules. Science and it's teachers will be removed.

Now suck it up and get back out there. Those made in china products at walmart won't buy themselves.

Don't forget to vote republicrat in your next election consumer drone. Or you will be removed too.

Re:Sick Society (2)

PolygamousRanchKid (1290638) | about 3 months ago | (#46801915)

Grand Arts High School was formerly known as Ramon C. Cortines School for Visual and Performing Arts . . . apparently, lowly science is not a "Grand Art". It doesn't sound like the place you would send your kid to prepare to study Physics at Princeton or Electrical Engineering at MIT. I pity the poor teacher of science or math in a school full of kids from "pushy" parents, determined that their offspring is destined for stardom.

Kinda weird . . . normally we expect the anti-science crowd to come from the religious corner off the ring . . . and low and behold . . . they get upstaged by a "Grand Arts" school staffed by administrators confounded by the entire concept of what "science" is.

"Grand Farts High School", indeed . . .

Sick government schools (1)

Kohath (38547) | about 3 months ago | (#46801965)

It's not society this time. The sickness here is all in the government schools.

But remember this: even though government schools do a bad job of teaching children in poor neighborhoods, we can't have non-government schools. Because poor kids wouldn't get a good education with non-government schools.

First they get rid of shop (5, Interesting)

Billly Gates (198444) | about 3 months ago | (#46801657)

Then Chemistry labs.

Now this. Sigh.

Lets burn the lawyers offices down. Everyone is so freaking terrified of a lawsuit that nothing happens. We have to give everyone a medal for participating, not discipline kids who tell teachers to go f**ck themselves, can't teach controversial subjects requiring critical thinking skills, can't flunk them, etc.

We are not doing them any favors when they get out in the real world afraid to take risks or wonder why their boss fired them instead of giving a raise for participation?

Re:First they get rid of shop (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 months ago | (#46801701)

Can't we just send the protesters from the cattle thing in Nevada down there - give them people with actual weapons to worry about and they'll forget the fake ones in the science fair.

Its the anti-gun agenda, seriously, read article (5, Insightful)

drnb (2434720) | about 3 months ago | (#46801763)

Lets burn the lawyers offices down. Everyone is so freaking terrified of a lawsuit that nothing happens.

Its not fear of lawyers, its an anti-gun agenda. I'm not kidding, from the article:
“supervising the building, research and development of imitation weapons.”

Things that look or function remotely similarly to a gun are not to be tolerated. If you let kids shoot marshmallows at stacked plastic cups they might have fun, take pride in their mastery of ballistic trajectories, and you never know where that might lead ... nerf ... airsoft ... a .22.

Re:Its the anti-gun agenda, seriously, read articl (1)

Billly Gates (198444) | about 3 months ago | (#46801781)

imitation weapons ... again fear of a lawsuit from a disgruntled ambulance parent.

Anything that can use force can be a weapon. Ban pencils next!

Re:Its the anti-gun agenda, seriously, read articl (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 months ago | (#46802009)

Anything that can use force can be a weapon. Ban pencils next!

I have a minor scar on my forearm that was caused by a pencil in high school. Yes, seriously.

cheek += tongue;
It really is unfortunate that they didn't ban pencils way back then, because then I wouldn't have been stabbed by the pencil-wielding psychopath.
cheek -= tongue;

Captcha: armament - how appropriate.

Re:Its the anti-gun agenda, seriously, read articl (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 months ago | (#46802015)

imitation weapons ... again fear of a lawsuit from a disgruntled ambulance parent.

Anything that can use force can be a weapon. Ban pencils next!

Good point. After seeing the Joker (Heath Ledger) demonstrating his disappearing pencil trick, it's obviously a weapon. The children would realize and embrace its elegant simplicity for being able to use it kill everyone they hated. Pens and pencils should be banned, replaced with keyboards and swipe screens.

Re:Its the anti-gun agenda, seriously, read articl (1)

DarwinSurvivor (1752106) | about 3 months ago | (#46802127)

Pens and pencils should be banned, replaced with keyboards and swipe screens.

Are you nuts? Have you seen what someone can do with a keyboard? http://youtu.be/XH7CXtxOflI?t=... [youtu.be]

At least with swipe screens their arms will be too tired to hit anyone with!

Re:Its the anti-gun agenda, seriously, read articl (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 months ago | (#46802181)

rock 'n' rolla

Re:Its the anti-gun agenda, seriously, read articl (0, Flamebait)

SensitiveMale (155605) | about 3 months ago | (#46801851)

Lets burn the lawyers offices down. Everyone is so freaking terrified of a lawsuit that nothing happens.

Its not fear of lawyers, its an anti-gun agenda. I'm not kidding, from the article:

“supervising the building, research and development of imitation weapons.”

Fucking exactly right. Anti-gun liberal extremists is the problem.

Re:Its the anti-gun agenda, seriously, read articl (2)

Billly Gates (198444) | about 3 months ago | (#46801983)

Sigh do not bring politics in this.

As someone who has worked in the school district I can tell you administrators need to make up good reasons to get rid of bad teachers and this is one of them and yes lawsuits prevent both administrators and staff from doing their jobs.

If the teacher said you can use this as a weapon. Then yes that would be very bad and inappropriate. If it is used to teach expansion of gas in a chemical reaction then that is a different matter.

I guess we will find out. Administrators have a reputation of being clueless. More likely they are puppets of the lawyers of school districts and need to do things like this to get rid of a few tenured bad apples.

Re:Its the anti-gun agenda, seriously, read articl (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 months ago | (#46802233)

administrators need to make up good reasons to get rid of bad teachers and this is one of them

I could understand, if it was a good reason. But it's not, it's a shit reason.

Re:Its the anti-gun agenda, seriously, read articl (1)

drnb (2434720) | about 3 months ago | (#46802347)

The problem with this theory is that it sets bad policy that persists and that can affect good teachers at a later date.

Re:Its the anti-gun agenda, seriously, read articl (0)

Charliemopps (1157495) | about 3 months ago | (#46801981)

No, it's not necessarily an anti-gun agenda... But what's going on is Doctors have come to the conclusion that children are safest if you do not have a gun in the house at all and if the children have no concept of how a gun works, so theoretically the kid will have no idea how to use or fire a real one if the find it and maybe they'd be terrified of it because of its unfamiliarity. Unfortunately, in practice, this idea is flawed. Of course kids know how to shoot a gun. The action is designed to work on instinct so you don't forget how to use the weapon at the critical moment you need it. So if kids do find a gun, of course they can figure it out, and now that they have no firearm safety training... so... Yea, it's a stupid policy created by people that don't own guns. If they simply had the local hunters safety instructor come in and give about 5hrs of instruction per year it would go a lot further.

Re:Its the anti-gun agenda, seriously, read articl (3, Insightful)

drnb (2434720) | about 3 months ago | (#46802313)

... it's a stupid policy created by people that don't own guns ...

There is nothing wrong with not owning guns. Its a personal choice, OK for some, not for others.

However creating policy and regulations when you are completely ignorant and misinformed about firearms, that is something else. Some non-owners are quite well informed and not hysterical. Some owners are quite ignorant and in dire need of instructions and education.

Re:First they get rid of shop (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 months ago | (#46801957)

Then Chemistry labs.

Now this. Sigh.

Lets burn the lawyers offices down. Everyone is so freaking terrified of a lawsuit that nothing happens. We have to give everyone a medal for participating, not discipline kids who tell teachers to go f**ck themselves, can't teach controversial subjects requiring critical thinking skills, can't flunk them, etc.

We are not doing them any favors when they get out in the real world afraid to take risks or wonder why their boss fired them instead of giving a raise for participation?

To THINK that kids at one time played DODGE ball in PE class. Now, they don't. It might hurt their self esteem. (It was so fun to see a kid smacked in the face with a rubber ball; bloody nose. But, it made us a little tougher; almost like the varsity. Or the band.) It is a wonder that the schools even allow senior prom to happen, given the self esteem quakes from that event. Who, who is running this country?

Re:First they get rid of shop (3, Insightful)

bill_mcgonigle (4333) | about 3 months ago | (#46801999)

Lets burn the lawyers offices down.

The lawyers are powerless without the courts. It's the Court orders, backed by ... wait for it ... men with guns that make this environment possible.

Do you know why everybody is so jumpy and the cops are doing summary executions [csmonitor.com] now? Because everybody is a criminal [amazon.com] , everybody is a suspect, and the cops and the courts enforce these absurd laws rather than than defend the Constitution [cato.org] as a co-equal branch.

Hell, the Constitution didn't even make it past 1803 [wikipedia.org] intact in design, and FDR accepted the Supreme Court's final surrender in 1937 from Chief Justice Hughes as a settlement to his plan to expand the Court with its cronies. Overnight, SCOTUS began finding all of Roosevelt's programs suddenly Constitutional even concluding that growing wheat for your family farm [wikipedia.org] is part of "Interstate Commerce" and suddenly of Federal providence.

The problem now is that it's impossible for the People to know what the Constitution says because (supposedly) it doesn't mean anything until SCOTUS tells us what it means, which might well be the opposite of what we "think" it means (that is, the plain English meaning). The catch is that the Constitution is what authorizes the government in the first place. If the People aren't competent to understand their agreement with that government, then they weren't competent to create it in the first place and the grant of power is void.

Re:First they get rid of shop (1)

Billly Gates (198444) | about 3 months ago | (#46802055)

The courts typically back the schools. My exwife was a teacher and took education law class.

The problem is it costs money to prove you are innocent. Schools included spent as much money paying off bad parents and lawyers as budgets for freaking books in a given year! How is that for fair?

All to prove that the judge says, well gee the school has a right to create a learning environment based on such and such in 1934 bla bla. NEXT ... oh the lawyer bill will be $380,000 etc.

Re:First they get rid of shop (3, Interesting)

rainmaestro (996549) | about 3 months ago | (#46802191)

My 8th grade elective (in 1998) was rocketry. We spent the semester building and launching model rockets. Something tells me that elective is no longer being offered.

You can still find sanity in a few holdouts. My high school (a magnet program, not a regular public school) had a well-stocked research lab and all students performed research. Mine involved cellulolysis and a strain of bacteria that I forget the name of now. The lab (and the research) is still ongoing, though I suspect the program's status gives it more freedom than a regular school would have. They even still had shop courses, or at least they did when I was there. No dodgeball, though, that was forbidden.

Yeah, sure. (5, Insightful)

drolli (522659) | about 3 months ago | (#46801677)

I am lucky I grew up in the 80s I guess.

Re:Yeah, sure. (5, Informative)

cultiv8 (1660093) | about 3 months ago | (#46801799)

I suspect there is a secondary motive here, the science teacher was also the teachers' union representative and had been dealing with disagreements with administrators over updating the employment agreement. His suspension removed him from those discussion. Source [latimes.com] and quote:

Schiller, 43, also was the teachers union representative on the campus and had been dealing with disagreements with administrators over updating the employment agreement under which the faculty works. His suspension, with pay, removed him from those discussions.

Re:Yeah, sure. (1)

Billly Gates (198444) | about 3 months ago | (#46802439)

Mod parent up.

I mentioned this already and as someone who worked at a school district I can vouch. If they get rid of tenure and go to what regular folks have a 3 write up and you are out this wouldn't happen.

Re:Yeah, sure. (1)

thegarbz (1787294) | about 3 months ago | (#46802057)

Based on all the supposedly really dangerous crap we did in the 80s I think we should be lucky we grew up at all. When I was a kid our Chemistry set had chemicals in it. Could you imagine? Nothing like today's "safer" alternatives. [slashdot.org]

And remember if you every feel like questioning anything or applying logic, just stop and think of the children.

Marshmallow shooters can be quite dangerous (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 months ago | (#46801699)

if you cross the streams.

Maybe anti-gun measures are good? (-1)

bielcosmo (3621557) | about 3 months ago | (#46801713)

Perhaps teaching kids that use of guns and violence in schools will not be tolerated is a good thing? Do we want to teach out kids how to use fake guns now, then careless use of real guns once in the real world? Schools need to keep zero tolerance on anything gun related if we want to see our crime rate go down (hint: Only a few countries have worse gun violence than the US... and they either have unstable governments, or no governments.)

Re:Maybe anti-gun measures are good? (4, Insightful)

Nidi62 (1525137) | about 3 months ago | (#46801793)

Perhaps teaching kids that use of guns and violence in schools will not be tolerated is a good thing? Do we want to teach out kids how to use fake guns now, then careless use of real guns once in the real world? Schools need to keep zero tolerance on anything gun related if we want to see our crime rate go down (hint: Only a few countries have worse gun violence than the US... and they either have unstable governments, or no governments.)

The better thing is to actually educate children about the dangers of firearms, and how to tell the difference between real guns and toys/replicas/marshmellow shooters. I grew up playing with toy guns, but my grandfather had several real firearms that he kept in a wood and glass gun cabinet. I was taught that they were dangerous and to only touch them with my grandfather or father. Keeping children from getting exposure to guns other than in video games or on TV means that if they are over at their friend Timmy's house and find his dad's gun they start playing with it and blow little Timmy's head off. If the child knows what to do when they find a gun (don't touch it, leave the area, and find and tell the nearest adult) little Timmy gets to go to school the next day. Abolition won't stop gun violence or even get rid of guns (out of the 6 guns that I own only 3 have any documentation of me purchasing them, and one of those is a hunting rifle). But education will reduce gun deaths significantly.

Re:Maybe anti-gun measures are good? (3, Insightful)

the eric conspiracy (20178) | about 3 months ago | (#46801845)

Gun safety is something every parent owes their children. Along with power tools, basic electrical wiring, plumbing, plant a grape vine, how to build a computer, tune an engine, build a computer and compile a Linux kernel.

Re:Maybe anti-gun measures are good? (1)

mlts (1038732) | about 3 months ago | (#46802161)

I feel like a survivalist stating this, but I think it is good to teach kids some skills that are not dependent on electricity, if only how not to be completely helpless during a power outage or a disaster:

One example is basic usage and care of a generator. It is surprising how few people don't get that there is a difference between a Harbor Freight special (which is an ET800 clone of a Yamaha model made in the early 19702), versus a Honda, Yamaha, or other quality generator with an inverter (or at the minimum active voltage regulation) that puts out clean power.

Another example, something simple as planting a garden or raising chickens. Skills that may not be needed all the time, but if something does happen, are worth having.

Re:Maybe anti-gun measures are good? (5, Insightful)

jcr (53032) | about 3 months ago | (#46801825)

Perhaps teaching kids that use of guns and violence in schools will not be tolerated is a good thing?

Perhaps you're a blithering idiot. Oh, wait: there's no question about that.

-jcr

Re:Maybe anti-gun measures are good? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 months ago | (#46802159)

Perhaps teaching kids that use of guns and violence in schools will not be tolerated is a good thing? Do we want to teach out kids how to use fake guns now, then careless use of real guns once in the real world? Schools need to keep zero tolerance on anything gun related if we want to see our crime rate go down (hint: Only a few countries have worse gun violence than the US... and they either have unstable governments, or no governments.)

Another culturally broken catholic obsessed with turning this country into another dysfunctional society; eventually to lead the U.S. into being just another poverty stricken boot licker operation with favored families. No one will be able to help one another and everyone will be running away from everyone else to somewhere else.

(Hint: Just because you think this sounds cool, you think it's a fact based truth.). Save the favored family jackass agenda for your "peons".

Losing good men to the war on pretend violence (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 months ago | (#46801719)

This is part of the war on pretend violence which is really a war on boys who enjoy war and fighting fiction. It shouldn't surprise any man that if we give an assignment of write anything you want. That young men might write about what it would be like to be a sniper or hunt down a fish. But yet if they do that their must be something wrong with them. [whitehouseboysmen.org]

Re:Losing good men to the war on pretend violence (-1, Troll)

bielcosmo (3621557) | about 3 months ago | (#46801733)

So, you are OK with teaching kids to kill. What happens to these skills when they become adults and the sticks become .44 Magnums?

Re:Losing good men to the war on pretend violence (1)

wiredlogic (135348) | about 3 months ago | (#46801783)

A marshmallow shooter isn't the start of the slippery slope to gun violence any more than the pervasive availability of knives contributes to stabbings. It used to be normal and accepted practice in western society to teach boys to hunt game to help supplement the family's food supply.

Re:Losing good men to the war on pretend violence (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 months ago | (#46801913)

The days of the Wild West are long since done with. Nobody in schools kills their own game. Contrary to the NRA propaganda machine, guns are for one thing, and that is for funerals. A school district is only doing its duty by nipping the the urge to be a homicidal shooter in the bud before that persists into adulthood and can be acted upon. Lets be real here -- schools are doing their job by stopping the hyperviolent behavior it now before the "stick" or "pop tart" becomes a real gun come high school.

Re:Losing good men to the war on pretend violence (1)

Nidi62 (1525137) | about 3 months ago | (#46802167)

Nobody in schools kills their own game

I know quite a few people that hunted when they were in high school, and probably hunted since they were at least in middle school. And I live in a large suburban area, not even out in the country.

Re:Losing good men to the war on pretend violence (1)

NatasRevol (731260) | about 3 months ago | (#46801817)

God forbid we teach them reason & respect for others in the mean time.

Re:Losing good men to the war on pretend violence (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 months ago | (#46802265)

Reason leads to rational thinking.
Rational thinking leads to hatred
and hatred leads to suffering!

Re:Losing good men to the war on pretend violence (1)

Nidi62 (1525137) | about 3 months ago | (#46801815)

Growing up all through school, I would often get bored in class and draw pages and pages of stick-figure battles, anyhting ranging from medieval battles to Star Wars to WWII. I'm talking body parts flying everywhere, blood spraying, and explosions. I feel like if I was in school now and did stuff like that, I would be expelled on the spot. And the sad thing is it's been less than 10 years since I graduated high school.

Re:Losing good men to the war on pretend violence (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 months ago | (#46802119)

What gets me is the blowback issue. The schools are starting from a small age forbidding anything gun related... and we all know that the harder stuff gets forbidden, the more it gets in demand.

I'm reminded of this when it comes to American/European kids. Though some Europeans drink more, it is the American kids who tend to binge more.

The same thing applies to guns. Forbidding it where if a "L" shaped cloud goes overhead, all students get suspended. This just creates demand. When (not if) said kid gets a gun in real life just because it was denied him... there wouldn't be knowledge there on gun safety. The only knowledge would be what is shown on music videos.

And that is scary. I'd rather have kids trained from kindergarten on up for the basics of shooting and safe carry (things like not keeping the finger on the trigger 24/7) than extreme, zero-tolerance bans.

This ties into why I have issues with modern pushes for gun control. The US has had one failed round of prohibition, and is dealing with a second around (marijuana). With every prohibition comes a criminal organization dedicated to satisfying that need for a forbidden item. I really fear what the organization that would form whose job it is to do black market arms trafficing in the entire US. If one thinks the crack dealer on the corner will be a shooting match, wait until there are dealers who know that they either win a gun battle and flee, or face life imprisonment.

Marshmallow, indeed (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 months ago | (#46801727)

Marshmallow is the perfect metaphor for the administrators of GAHS.

Tintin (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 months ago | (#46801751)

maybe its me but that professor looks like the professor from tintin

Administrative politics (4, Insightful)

wickerprints (1094741) | about 3 months ago | (#46801797)

This is about office politics. The administration at his school has decided to make an example out of him, and they're using these science experiments as an excuse to make his life miserable. That's what this is really about. He doesn't toe the line, so someone with power has decided to exert their authority.

To make this about gun politics is as equally absurd as to say that we should stop kids from eating any food because there's an obesity epidemic. These science projects are no more related to actual firearms than the gas stove in your kitchen is related to a nuclear bomb. The only plausible explanation for this situation is that Schiller dared to butt heads with some administrator, and this is payback.

Moron Alert (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 months ago | (#46801803)

Large numbers of stupid people, just smart enough to read and write spotted in the greater Los Angles area.

Be safe out there. Zombie imitations may get you past them. Don't stop west of the Rock Mountains

Electricity (3, Funny)

edibobb (113989) | about 3 months ago | (#46801807)

They should ban electricity in science fair projects. Electricity is highly dangerous. People die from electrocution every year, some of whom are not even enjoying capital punishment.

Re:Electricity (2, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 months ago | (#46801907)

Electricity is nothing compared to the dangers of Dihydrogen Monoxide! http://www.dhmo.org/facts.html

Re:Electricity (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 months ago | (#46802223)

We were bored at work one day and looked up the MSDS on it... turns out the LD50 is 9% body mass. Sounds pretty deadly!

High School (1)

the eric conspiracy (20178) | about 3 months ago | (#46801813)

Fire the administrators immediately and vote the school board out of office.

what is next basic computer skills = hacking (1)

Joe_Dragon (2206452) | about 3 months ago | (#46801821)

what is next basic computer skills = hacking

time to suspended the tech teaches

This is a direct attack on our welfare system (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 months ago | (#46801829)

The masquerade of public education has been exposed. Liberals everywhere should move for summary judgement before this gets out of control. The usurpation of a union controlled beuracracy is in progress. The sooner Schiller and his murderous minions are brought to justice, the sooner we get back to businss as usual.
Soccer mom's need there sleep. The countless hours that will be spent at board meetings to extract the inevitable "this matter has been referred to our attorney" response will clearly interfere with the School Board's ability to screw up everything else that is on the agenda.
Forget the think of the children meme, We need Obama to come in and declare - When I was a student getting my fake degree, I had a prof that looked like Schindler.
Look, I realize I left a few jabs out. Feel free to add your own.

Good, and this is why... (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 months ago | (#46801859)

This will do more to make students hate Political Correctness and despise authority than simply reading that those things are bad.

Good!

BTW the Hippies were right, and now the rest of the country is discovering the Establishment DOES suck, even when run (perhaps) by former hippies.

Good.

I was lucky to grow up in a saner environment (4, Interesting)

spiritplumber (1944222) | about 3 months ago | (#46801869)

http://spiritplumber.deviantar... [deviantart.com] This is a SLIGHT fictionalization of what happened to me when faced with a derpy administrator -- the dates and names have been changes but you can probably guess my age by the stuff referenced in. Ultimately, teachers and administrators operate in loco parentis; the parents have to get mad.

Another school shooting averted. (4, Funny)

Elyjah (108222) | about 3 months ago | (#46801881)

I approve of this decision. Someone finally thought of the children; just think how many lives were saved! Science is dangerous, and definitely has no place in our schools. Clearly, the children that built these have some severe mental problems, and all right-thinking people know their parents must be fat, conservative tea-baggers. The kind of violence exhibited by these devices cannot be tolerated. This is exactly why children should not be allowed to think for themselves in school; they are too unpredictable.

I'm glad we were able to stop these domestic terrorists before they killed anyone.

It's a good start. (1)

clovis (4684) | about 3 months ago | (#46801997)

After shutting down all science projects that involve projectiles, we need to move against other deadly militaristic skills.

1) stop all activities that train for grenade throwing.
For example, one so-called sport has a group of five taking turns attempting to throw a projectile through a 'hoop', where it should be obvious to anyone that this is training terrorists to hurl molotov cocktails through the windows of our leaders homes as well as elementary schools.

2) stop all activities that train for Hoplite style of battles.
For example, one so-called sport has a groups of eleven engaging in pushing and shoving to get a ball to a goal behind the group.
This is clearly military practice to train for close quarters combat without firearms. No doubt their plan is to disrupt the police who may be engaged in clearing streets from deranged people such as the occupy Wall Street protestors.

3) debate clubs. Why do we need debate clubs except to train people to delude and confuse the populace? The government licensed media should provide all the news and opinions we need.

We become nation of sissies (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 months ago | (#46802099)

When I was a kid we were making rockets from empty soda CO2 cartridges and matches. Not in school of course, The containers were popular in the 60's, made of high strength steel. Me and bunch of my friends were shooting those rockets from the old bicycle pump tube that happen to have almost the right internal diameter. The missile was capable to pierce single layer brick wall through when launched from several yards away. One in few launches failed exploding the missile and the launcher tube with a great bang and pieces flying around. That thought us better than any school to understand the danger and the power of such devices and treat them with respect. You had to take precautions by being "safe" distance from the launcher when firing. The fuse had to be long enough to allow us to walk to the safe distance in reasonable time, we had to take shelter against failed launch. etc. Not advising to have such science project. But put that into perspective with today sissies society.

This is the state of gun laws (0)

Arancaytar (966377) | about 3 months ago | (#46802245)

Pointing a finger gun at school: NO.
Building a marshmallow gun: NO.
Giving real guns to children: YES.
Buying assault weapons without background checks: YES.

Yay for the second amendment, apparently. 'Merca.

Re:This is the state of gun laws (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 months ago | (#46802293)

You are so motherfucking stupid that I'm surprised you figured out how to post on a website. You really do live in a fantasy world.

Re:This is the state of gun laws (1)

Nidi62 (1525137) | about 3 months ago | (#46802465)

Buying assault weapons without background checks: YES.

You mean assualt rifles? Sure, you can buy them illegally without a background check from the local gunrunner/gang member for a couple grand. Or spend about $20k on the gun and a couple k on the tax stamp and Class III license. Oh, wait, you meant the scary black guns with the pistol grips and plastic furniture. Because something like this [world.guns.ru] is perfectly fine, but add a Tapco stock [tapco.com] to it and you might as well be carry the next cloest thing to a nuke the way some poeple act.

leftards are dangerous so lets ban THEM (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 months ago | (#46802365)

This is the kind of stupidity perpetrated by leftists and yup-yupped into our society by neoliberal dolts.

Our academia needs a complete cleaning out of these devisive freedom haters.

DOnt like what I said ? Too bad its called free speech dimwit, another thing you hate ?

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