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DarkMarket, the Decentralized Answer To Silk Road, Is About More Than Just Drugs

Unknown Lamer posted about 3 months ago | from the keep-telling-yourself-that dept.

Bitcoin 251

Daniel_Stuckey (2647775) writes "If you were anywhere near the internet last week, you would have come across reports of 'DarkMarket', a new system being touted as a Silk Road the FBI could never seize. Although running in a similar fashion on the face of things — some users buy drugs, other sell them — DarkMarket works in a fundamentally different way to Silk Road or any other online marketplace. Instead of being hosted off a server like a normal website, it runs in a decentralized manner: Users download a piece of software onto their device, which allows them to access the DarkMarket site. The really clever part is how the system incorporates data with the blockchain, the part of Bitcoin that everybody can see. Rather than just carrying the currency from buyer to seller, data such as user names are added to the blockchain by including it in very small transactions, meaning that its impossible to impersonate someone else because their pseudonymous identity is preserved in the ledger. Andy Greenberg has a good explanation of how it works over at Wired. The prototype includes nearly everything needed for a working marketplace: private communications between buyers and sellers, Bitcoin transfers to make purchases, and an escrow system that protects the cash until it is confirmed that the buyer has received their product. Theoretically, being a decentralized and thus autonomous network, it would still run without any assistance from site administrators, and would certainly make seizing a central server, as was the case with the original Silk Road, impossible."

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251 comments

Marx was a genius (-1, Troll)

For a Free Internet (1594621) | about 3 months ago | (#46864169)

Your puny brains have been pickled in capitalist ideologues. I pity the fools (you).

Eeeehhhhhh (5, Insightful)

Ralph Wiggam (22354) | about 3 months ago | (#46864177)

"Is About More Than Just Drugs"

But really...it's about drugs. You don't need to sell Beanie Babies anonymously.

Re:Eeeehhhhhh (3, Insightful)

pla (258480) | about 3 months ago | (#46864269)

But really...it's about drugs. You don't need to sell Beanie Babies anonymously.

And showering in a public bathhouse takes fewer resources than doing it in your own bathroom. You don't need to shower privately.

I would also point out that cash has more anonymity than any digital currency ever created. Why do you need cash, you goddamned drug-dealing terrorist?

/ tldr: "Need" has nothing to do with it. Uncle Sam has no business in my business.

Re:Eeeehhhhhh (3, Insightful)

Ralph Wiggam (22354) | about 3 months ago | (#46864327)

Your public bathhouse example is terrible.

Most people use cash because it's fast and convenient, not because it's anonymous. When people use cash specifically for it's anonymity, it's usually to buy drugs.

But you can't use cash online. So for non-drug purchases, most people use regular web sites and credit cards.

Re:Eeeehhhhhh (2, Insightful)

pla (258480) | about 3 months ago | (#46864387)

Your public bathhouse example is terrible.

So, you didn't make it all the way down to my "tldr" summary, eh?

"Need" has nothing to do with it. But you've already stopped reading.

Re:Eeeehhhhhh (2)

Ralph Wiggam (22354) | about 3 months ago | (#46864421)

Did you not read past the first sentence of my reply?

If you want to go to a huge amount of extra effort to buy legal things anonymously in order to make a point to The Man, feel free. Very few people will be joining you.

Re:Eeeehhhhhh (1)

amosh (109566) | about 3 months ago | (#46864431)

Dude.

1. This is "discussing things with humans 101". If the first part of your argument is so stupid that it makes people STOP READING WHAT YOU HAVE TO SAY, you are making a BAD ARGUMENT.

2. If you're claiming that your TL;DR contains an entirely different point than what you state above, you're using TL;DR wrong.

3. Protip - "Uncle Sam has no business in my business" is pretty damn asinine. Because it's pretty clear that he DOES, especially if your business is selling illegal weapons, murder, kidnapping, etc.

Re:Eeeehhhhhh (2)

jschrod (172610) | about 3 months ago | (#46864617)

> Protip - "Uncle Sam has no business in my business" is pretty damn asinine. Because it's pretty clear that he DOES,

In my world, Uncle Sam has no business, but resumes to collect all meta-data of any communication that I do, and for some states even all communication, just because he can. He's called upon it, but the answer is clear: I'll continue to do it because I can. I'm the dominant military power on Earth, I don't have to care for international rights, for human dignity, for justice. Uncle Sam tells me that he's the imperial power left on Earth that can decide who's allowed to live and to die without any court that may intervene.

> especially if your business is selling illegal weapons, murder, kidnapping, etc.

Sorry, but that's not my business. I'm just a normal non-US person supervised by the NSA, as all of us non-US folks are.

Wait, you mean that your civil rights are only for US citizens? They don't belong to us?

There was a time when the U.S.A was looked upon as the guiding light. I'm old enough to remember it. Guys, you destroyed that. You turtore, you kill hundreds of thousands of innocents -- much more than al-quaida ever did, you're the 800 pounds bully on the international political circuit, you won't coorperate, you are the scam on Earth.

> [Uncle Sam] is pretty clear that he DOES have business

You might think so. But I sincerly hope that your Tea Party will take over policital power in the US. It will be a few harsh years for us, world-wide, but they will destroy you better than any foe could do. Then we will be able to continue to build the world society that you don't want to be part of. Sigh, your ancestors lend us the ideas, but you abandoned them.

Re:Eeeehhhhhh (1)

deadweight (681827) | about 3 months ago | (#46864893)

So why doesn't the EU get a good head start and quit NATO? Oh wait.............

Re:Eeeehhhhhh (1)

router (28432) | about 3 months ago | (#46865123)

Yeah, we're working on it. We have a system to correct this crap, hopefully we'll use it. In the meantime, make sure yours is just as transparent as you want ours to be. Maybe even show us the way. It would really help out, if you are indeed using the ideas our founders gave you....

Oh, and the NSA et. al. also spy on all the US citizens. Its not like they really tried hard to avoid it. They can have any non-US entity do it for them and share the results. We're all sorta in this together, us humans.

The Oligarchy in the US will get fixed eventually, we all hope for the better. It would be, you know, easier, if certain eurasian countries could stop invading their neighbors, and all. Have hope, humans are better than this.

Re:Eeeehhhhhh (1)

elfprince13 (1521333) | about 3 months ago | (#46864389)

The property that makes cash convenient in real life is the same one that make it anonymous: it's decentralized. Why should the situation be any different online (excepting technology lag and first-to-market effects)?

Re:Eeeehhhhhh (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 months ago | (#46864333)

I suppose what the original poster meant was "Why would I buy beanie babies off of DarkMarket when I could buy them off of Amazon". Furthermore, cash being anonymous doesn't make it easier to do illegal things with than bitcoin. With cash, you actually have to BE there. If you're not there, then someone you give your cash to has to be there. Furthermore, cash has serial numbers that can be traced to your bank.

It's all well and good to say bitcoin is amazing and freeing, but let's not delude ourselves into thinking that things like this aren't for illegal things like drugs and human trafficking.

Re:Eeeehhhhhh (1)

amosh (109566) | about 3 months ago | (#46864391)

So leaving my house, traveling to a public area, which requires changing rooms my house doesn't need, cleaning to a level my house doesn't require, etc., etc., somehow takes less resources?

Don't be stupid. If you can't come up with analogies that make a lick of sense, don't use analogies.

Re:Eeeehhhhhh (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 months ago | (#46865419)

paying in cash is a few orders of magnitude less difficult than buying bitcoins and setting up an esoteric decentralized p2p cryptomarket

Re:Eeeehhhhhh (2, Funny)

Bob_Who (926234) | about 3 months ago | (#46864319)

"Is About More Than Just Drugs"

But really...it's about drugs. You don't need to sell Beanie Babies anonymously.

I dunno..... It's probably good policy to sell most babies anonymously....

Re:Eeeehhhhhh (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 months ago | (#46864331)

Speak for yourself! The underground Beanie Baby trade is one of the longest-running segment of the internet economy.

No-one must know how much of my paycheck goes to stuffed elephants each month, especially not the government.

Re:Eeeehhhhhh (2)

Charliemopps (1157495) | about 3 months ago | (#46864439)

"Is About More Than Just Drugs"

But really...it's about drugs. You don't need to sell Beanie Babies anonymously.

Oh yea?
http://www.deseretnews.com/art... [deseretnews.com]

Have faith, eventually everything ends up illegal.

Re:Eeeehhhhhh (1)

Ralph Wiggam (22354) | about 3 months ago | (#46864955)

Have faith, eventually everything ends up illegal.

Yet the link you include is about the opposite situation.

Re:Eeeehhhhhh (1)

jafac (1449) | about 3 months ago | (#46864517)

They're not selling drugs.

They're selling FREEDOM!!!

Re:Eeeehhhhhh (1)

Opportunist (166417) | about 3 months ago | (#46864651)

So it's about drugs. Your point being?

Personally, I think nobody has a say when someone wants to kill himself using various substances. Everyone has the right to off himself in the most convenient ways.

Re:Eeeehhhhhh (1)

Ralph Wiggam (22354) | about 3 months ago | (#46864947)

So it's about drugs. Your point being?

That the headline of the article says the opposite. I don't expect you to read the article, but I do expect you to read the headline.

Re:Eeeehhhhhh (1)

funwithBSD (245349) | about 3 months ago | (#46864905)

Yeah, there is also Sex, and Rock n' Roll.

you insensitive clod (1)

pepty (1976012) | about 3 months ago | (#46865091)

it could also be guns, credit card numbers, or exploits

Escrow? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 months ago | (#46864207)

an escrow system that protects the cash until it is confirmed that the buyer has received their product

I swear it hasn't arrived yet! [bubble bubble bubble] Really and for true!

Re:Escrow? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 months ago | (#46864271)

I assume the UPS tracking number would expose your lies.

Re:Escrow? (1)

machineghost (622031) | about 3 months ago | (#46864299)

And? If there's no middle man then ultimately someone (in this case it sounds like the buyer) has total control over the transaction. It doesn't matter what UPS says, if they don't want to release the funds they don't have to.

In a dark market like this the ONLY protection you have against fraud is the other party's reputation.

Re:Escrow? (1)

Dino (9081) | about 3 months ago | (#46864343)

And? If there's no middle man then ultimately someone (in this case it sounds like the buyer) has total control over the transaction. It doesn't matter what UPS says, if they don't want to release the funds they don't have to.

In a dark market like this the ONLY protection you have against fraud is the other party's reputation.

Did you even read the article? It describes how a third party (arbiter) is agreed to by each party. It takes 2 out of 3 signatures to finalize the transaction (minus arbiter fee).

Re:Escrow? (1)

BungaDunga (801391) | about 3 months ago | (#46864365)

It has an escrow functionality, with an arbiter chosen by consensus between the buyer and the seller. The buyer and the seller can both provide the tracking number to the arbiter, and the arbiter decides who gets the funds: the buyer (effectively reversing the transaction) or the seller (completing it).

Re:Escrow? (1)

ADRA (37398) | about 3 months ago | (#46864751)

And what happens if the Arbiter sends both replies to the block chain? Who 'win's?

Re:Escrow? (1)

uvajed_ekil (914487) | about 3 months ago | (#46865195)

Whichever one is received first. The escrow portion of this is the easy and simple part, and you guys are over-complicating it.

This is the endgame.. (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 months ago | (#46864229)

Welcome to the age of illegal software, illegal protocols and the cops busting down your door when your ISPs DPI heuristics make a pattern match against something they don't like. Oh well, we knew it was coming some day.

Re:This is the endgame.. (1)

scarboni888 (1122993) | about 3 months ago | (#46864711)

Yeah. I'd like to see you post that non-anonymously, chump.

yeah .. no (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 months ago | (#46864231)

I totally want to install software made by shady people on my computer to access their shady market full of TOTALLY ON THE LEVEL PEOPLE.

Installing this stuff is like asking for a rootkit.

So if I'm the arbiter of a transaction, (1)

John.Banister (1291556) | about 3 months ago | (#46864275)

but I don't realize that the transaction is "I'll buy 6 of your kidnapping victims for my snuff film," then my public key that allows them to rate me as a fine arbiter for the transaction also links me right in as an accessory to murder.

Re:So if I'm the arbiter of a transaction, (2)

deadweight (681827) | about 3 months ago | (#46864311)

But .but........they never arrived! Damn that UPS tracking system......

Re:So if I'm the arbiter of a transaction, (2)

ThatsMyNick (2004126) | about 3 months ago | (#46864403)

If a UPS delivery guy delivers a gun (without knowing it is a gun, and it looks like ordinary package), and the gun is used to kill someone. Is the UPS delivery guy an accessory to murder?

Re:So if I'm the arbiter of a transaction, (2, Interesting)

amosh (109566) | about 3 months ago | (#46864445)

It depends - does the guy work for UPS? Probably not.

Does the guy work for "DARK SHIPMENTS ANONYMOUS - ANYTHING DELIVERED ANY TIME OF DAY TO ANYWHERE, BUT NOTHING ILLEGAL, HEH HEH HEH Incorporated"? If he does, there's a pretty easy case that he's an accessory.

Re:So if I'm the arbiter of a transaction, (1)

ThatsMyNick (2004126) | about 3 months ago | (#46864497)

Exactly, it requires the delivery person to know that what he does is shady, and can be illegal. This is not possible in a market where both legal (weed is pretty common in these markets and pretty much legal) and illegal stuff can happen.

Re:So if I'm the arbiter of a transaction, (1)

amosh (109566) | about 3 months ago | (#46864535)

Exactly, it requires the delivery person to know that what he does is shady, and can be illegal. This is not possible in a market where both legal (weed is pretty common in these markets and pretty much legal) and illegal stuff can happen.

Can you please reread what you said? I really think you need to. You are saying that, in a market where the goods range from "of dubious legality" (weed) to "absolutely illegal", it is "not possible" to know that what you're doing "can be illegal"? I think you might be stepping on your own toes.

Thank you for making my point so effectively, I guess?

Re:So if I'm the arbiter of a transaction, (1)

ThatsMyNick (2004126) | about 3 months ago | (#46864783)

I did. I said the market can range from legal to illegal, depending on the jurisdiction. Weed is in mine, for example. Everything is illegal somewhere.

Re:So if I'm the arbiter of a transaction, (1)

Bing Tsher E (943915) | about 3 months ago | (#46865061)

No matter where you live, selling weed without following specific mandated protocols, which involves regulations and taxes, is illegal.

So, about the way it works (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 months ago | (#46864339)

You have to download a piece of software to your device that allows you to access their services? And it's all around the news? To me it reeks of an NSA inside job. Or a botnet. Or both.

Re:So, about the way it works (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 months ago | (#46865053)

I wonder why someone hasn't written this as a botnet that can run metamorphosing where-ever it can find a niche.

People are willing to trust some random software? (5, Insightful)

gweihir (88907) | about 3 months ago | (#46864349)

Well, if the FBI were smart, then it would have been them writing that software. Or asked the NSA to do it for them. As a bonus, they get all other information on the participant's computers.

Re:People are willing to trust some random softwar (2)

Opportunist (166417) | about 3 months ago | (#46864683)

A little hint: A fair load of people who know how to use disassemblers didn't start out in the IT security business.

Do you think this piece of software existed for more than a few seconds before it was fed to a DA and analyzed 'til it croaked?

Re:People are willing to trust some random softwar (1)

Old Fatty Baldman (3630557) | about 3 months ago | (#46864815)

Considering how hard it is to find "accidentally leak a couple of bits of your private key" bugs when you've got the original source code, I don't know if that improves the situation. I'm too lazy to click around and find out, but I assume they published their protocol so there can be multiple implementations of the client.

Re:People are willing to trust some random softwar (2)

gweihir (88907) | about 3 months ago | (#46864927)

Considering how long it too to find Heartbleed and that it was found not by source-code analysis but because some people noticed extra bytes in the keep-alive messages, people feeling secure using this thing are likely just kidding themselves. And if there is any real crypto in it, the typical ordinary "hacker" with a big ego and rather pathetic skills does not stand a chance to find or understand anything.

Re:People are willing to trust some random softwar (1)

gweihir (88907) | about 3 months ago | (#46864909)

You are naive. This piece of software has probably not seen one single competent analysis even now.

Re:People are willing to trust some random softwar (2)

Nonesuch (90847) | about 3 months ago | (#46865359)

You are naive. This piece of software has probably not seen one single competent analysis even now.

You'd be surprised. The union of people who are competent with IDA Pro (and similar tools) and people interested in Bitcoin is a surprisingly large set. Find a provable backdoor in an application like this and you've got yourself a very good candidate for at least a DEFCON talk, maybe a job at Matasano.

Re:People are willing to trust some random softwar (1)

Jack Griffin (3459907) | about 3 months ago | (#46865299)

You say that as if they aren't behind all of this already? Who's to say that Silk Road, Bit Coin, TOR etc aren't all just honeypot projects for the NSA? I mean if I was in charge that's the way I'd do it. Let all the small players continue doing business on you Darknet until someone gets too big for their boots then you take them out. I know it sounds a bit Hollywood, but it would the most effective means of control.

So go ahead - what are the legitimate uses of this (1, Interesting)

amosh (109566) | about 3 months ago | (#46864377)

There are a number of things that the Slashdot community - full of nerds and techies - is just stupid and naive about. This is clearly one of them.

So, defenders of this idea. Mr. "Well, you wouldn't shower in public, so why should your transactions be public," and all people with similar viewpoints - What are the circumstances where you feel that something like this would be useful/necessary?

And it's not enough to say "I want the gub'ment out of mah bidness!" Because you are not stupid, and you know just as well as I do that there has never been a "black market" in the history of the world that was a force for righteousness and truth. You don't buy a black market gun in the US because you're law-abiding. You know, just as well as I do, that the main reason people will use this is to buy things that are illegal, for uses that are likely to cause harm to someone. So it needs a reason for a reasonable society to allow it to exist.

This is an honest question and I'm really interested in the discussion. Why should this exist?

Re:So go ahead - what are the legitimate uses of t (5, Interesting)

mcphail (859743) | about 3 months ago | (#46864467)

I doubt there will be any "legitimate" uses of this particular technology.

However, it may be a model on which we can base future online retail. The existing model is utterly broken: I really don't want databases all over the world holding my username, password, credit card details and billing address waiting for the next SQL or SSL vulnerability to vomit the information into the hands of criminals. Nor do I want to trust, use or respect services like paypal.

View this as an iteration towards a more secure and decentralised system for legitimate commerce which keeps credit card and escrow companies out of the equation. Surely that is a good thing?

Re:So go ahead - what are the legitimate uses of t (1)

Bodhammer (559311) | about 3 months ago | (#46864469)

I mostly agree with you but given the explosion of laws and regulations in the last few years, and the spying, data aggregation, and just general surveillance, many things that were assumed to be private are not.
http://www.threefeloniesaday.c... [threefeloniesaday.com]
http://thehill.com/regulation/... [thehill.com]

We are moving toward and not away from totalitarian states. Freedom is decreasing in the world, both personally and economically.

T.H. White’s totalitarian principle: “Everything not forbidden is compulsory.”
That is why stuff like this is good, even if it may be used for bad things (just like a gun, knife, rope, car, brick, rock, club, axe, or a sharp pointy stick...).

Re:So go ahead - what are the legitimate uses of t (3)

Bodhammer (559311) | about 3 months ago | (#46864477)

Devil's advocate - what about "Dallas Buyer's Club"?

Re:So go ahead - what are the legitimate uses of t (1)

amosh (109566) | about 3 months ago | (#46864577)

Nice, Bodhammer - that's a really interesting example. But the thing is, it's still an example of a "harmful illegal drug" that some people want to opt out of the regulations of, and assume the risk of any damage that happens. So it's not that different from pot or LSD, for instance - and while I'm in favor of legalization I'm generally not in favor of large black markets. Or dudes whose goal is to circumvent FDA trials because they think they can make a quick buck off of a bunch of desperate and dying people. (Remember, if AZT was in trials during the time period - if it had been found to have fatal side effects, there wouldn't be an oscar-winning movie about the guy... or if there were, he would be the bad guy. He wanted to make money, he got lucky. It happens.)

Unless, of course, you meant the MOVIE Dallas Buyer's Club - you know, the one whose owners are trademark trolling and actively looking for venues with judges who don't understand modern IP law or the internet so they can most effectively push their MPAA tactics... THAT I would buy over a digital black market rather than paying them :-)

Re:So go ahead - what are the legitimate uses of t (1)

Bodhammer (559311) | about 3 months ago | (#46865003)

I did not mean the pirated movie, I meant the concept of buying something that was forbidden by the laws at the time. I watched DBC in blu-ray from Redbox for $1.50 plus tax.
As I said, Devil's advocate here - There are way too many people, organizations, and governments that want to tell me what to do and how to live my life and I would like a way to "just say no", and do what I want to do with my body, my mind, my money, and as long as it does not infringe on anyone else, its my business and should be free from view.

Re:So go ahead - what are the legitimate uses of t (2)

Old Fatty Baldman (3630557) | about 3 months ago | (#46864529)

I like Cuban rum and cigars, and I disagree with the outdated embargo law that prevents me from getting them at the local rum and cigar store.

Re:So go ahead - what are the legitimate uses of t (2, Insightful)

amosh (109566) | about 3 months ago | (#46864589)

You disagree with a law doesn't give you a moral right to break it.

I like that you're not even bothering to argue that the law is unjust or unfair - just that you don't like it. While I appreciate the honestly, I don't think this counts as a legitimate use.

Plus, it's not like either of those things are even vaguely difficult to get.

Also, I seriously doubt you actually like either Cuban rum or cigars.

Re:So go ahead - what are the legitimate uses of t (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 months ago | (#46864631)

If the law is wrong - and the Embargo is - you sure as fuck bet you have a moral right to break it!

Re:So go ahead - what are the legitimate uses of t (2)

Old Fatty Baldman (3630557) | about 3 months ago | (#46864767)

You're that guy who gets in the carpool lane and drives at exactly the speed limit, aren't you?

Re:So go ahead - what are the legitimate uses of t (1)

mycroft822 (822167) | about 3 months ago | (#46864549)

Having watched Dallas Buyer's Club a few weeks back, it comes to mind that one could want to purchase medications that are arbitrarily banned by the FDA because corporate interests have a large lobbying arm.

I agree with your point that the majority of U.S. users will not be engaging in "legitimate" business dealings, but I doubt there has been a government that has never banned a substance/item/idea because of pressure from special interest groups. A system like this could be used by people in [OppressiveCountryName] for something as honest as buying a book that has been banned.

Re:So go ahead - what are the legitimate uses of t (1)

amosh (109566) | about 3 months ago | (#46864597)

Historically, black markets have not been used for banned books. Tell me honestly - do you think "purchasing banned books" will be a thing that will ever happen on DarkMarket?

Re:So go ahead - what are the legitimate uses of t (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 months ago | (#46865103)

Dear God, WHAT? How wrong you are. That's exactly what the black market gets used for, ever since books were a thing.

Not exclusively but yes, banned books get sold on black markets and it's a long established thing.

Re:So go ahead - what are the legitimate uses of t (2)

mycroft822 (822167) | about 3 months ago | (#46865435)

I wouldn't know because I've been fortunate to live in a country that doesn't suffer from fundamentalist, totalitarian rule. Maybe there are some christians in North Korea that would want to buy a bible?

You're obviously struggling to disconnect the tech from what it could be used for though. You're question was why this tech should exist. I gave you a very benign purpose that one could use it for as an example, thinking you could extrapolate on what other uses you might take for granted that not every person in the world is allowed. The medication example I used was meant to be the more compelling argument.

Re: So go ahead - what are the legitimate uses of (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 months ago | (#46864755)

Prescription drugs come to mind. Especially the anti-biotic variety that cost $$$$ in the US, but only $ in Canada, Europe, or anywhere else but the US.

Considering the costs of some drugs here, I can fully understand why folks would resort to such avenues when push came to shove.

Hell, I may have to build a bitcoin farm just to afford my chemo in my later years :/

Re:So go ahead - what are the legitimate uses of t (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 months ago | (#46864563)

Becuase if I want to buy drugs, it should be no one's fucking business but MINE?

Re:So go ahead - what are the legitimate uses of t (1)

amosh (109566) | about 3 months ago | (#46864603)

Yawn. "Should be" is not a recognized scientific or legal term.

Re:So go ahead - what are the legitimate uses of t (1)

Opportunist (166417) | about 3 months ago | (#46864697)

Ok. It is nobody's business, and if someone makes it their business, they're wrong.

Better?

Re:So go ahead - what are the legitimate uses of t (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 months ago | (#46864727)

Yawn. "Amosh" is not a recognised scientific or legal term for idiot

But it should be because holy shit, you are one piss poor troll.

Re:So go ahead - what are the legitimate uses of t (3, Interesting)

rgbatduke (1231380) | about 3 months ago | (#46864649)

Granting the illegal bit, illegal does not equate to "causing harm to someone". Would that it did -- that would be so very rational. However, there are plenty of things one might want to spend money on that are illegal but harm no one but arguably yourself. Drugs is one obvious example, but in many parts of the world buying pornography or sexual toys/aids is illegal, all the way up to being a capital crime. In China or much of the Moslem world, an enormous number of things are illegal that don't harm anyone or anything but the nominal reputation of Islam or Mohammed or Allah, or that represent freedom for repressed majorities like women. We're not really talking only about the relatively permissive US or Western Europe, in other words.

Of course people will use this to do some things that are directly intended to harm others in non-victimless-crime ways: Steal/pirate and resell IP of various sorts, fence stolen goods, arrange for a hit on your alimony-hungry ex-wife (maybe, dunno if that is a "commodity" it can handle), engage in human trafficking, sell arms. But some people will use it to buy freedom from oppressive governments that have made a whole lot of things that harm no one illegal because they violate some statement made in a piece of pure scriptural crack if you squint your eyes just right when you read it. Because there is rarely any percentage in prosecuting crimes of this sort once one cannot detect them or stop them for long enough for violations to become commonplace, it might even motivate social change.

To me personally, the tool is not going to be terribly useful. I'm heterosexual and married, my primary vices are at least quasi-legal and tolerated where I live, and I consider buying stolen goods of most varieties to be unethical. It isn't clear that I'd resort to it if I lived in e.g. a Moslem country and had a thing for porn -- no matter how nominally secure, the penalties are pretty horrendous. But I'm guessing that there are those who will value it who aren't planning to use it to hurt others.

rgb

I just bet ... (1)

TrollstonButterbeans (2914995) | about 3 months ago | (#46865217)

That this site will be used for selling sex toys in "Moslem countries" and maybe unauthorized copies of "Star Wars" or where people in Muslim countries can share Dutch Cartoons or where people in Christian countries can share copies of "Of The Origin of Species."

Then again, maybe it will be like the previous "Silk Road" and be all about opium and kitty porn and services to kill people.

Your heart is in the right place, but your post is a bit of joke in the sense you don't go visit mafia thugs to share free speech except in funny 1980s movies.

Re:I just bet ... (1)

j-beda (85386) | about 3 months ago | (#46865321)

Then again, maybe it will be like the previous "Silk Road" and be all about opium and kitty porn and services to kill people.

Is kitty porn a large problem in your local? Meow.

Re:So go ahead - what are the legitimate uses of t (1)

Opportunist (166417) | about 3 months ago | (#46864689)

Citizens of the former East Bloc would disagree that there are no legitimate and righteous reasons for a black market. Mostly, whether a black market is "morally ok" depends on how morally corrupt your laws are.

Re:So go ahead - what are the legitimate uses of t (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 months ago | (#46865353)

When the government, lead by it's corporate masters, tries to make me it's slave, and I need to purchase things that are illegal but necessary to maintain my personal sovereignty of myself, or help overthrow the government's corporate masters.

Say what you want about what evil a tool like this could bring, it's a powerful weapon in anyone with a brain's hands. We need that, because the people need to maintain power, or we become nothing more than slaves/cattle.

Site for illegal activities, just load this... (5, Funny)

addikt10 (461932) | about 3 months ago | (#46864399)

So let me get this straight:
There is this site. A site designed for illegal activities...
And all I need to do is load their software onto my computer? Gosh, where do I sign up.

I mean, I always trust software from shady characters. That sounds totally safe.

Re:Site for illegal activities, just load this... (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 months ago | (#46864547)

Except it's an open source program, meaning you can review the code and decide if the risk is okay for you. Maybe it is too risky to run on your laptop that you also use to file your taxes with.. but that old galaxy phone that you wiped and then tossed in a drawer can be used to host the software to which you just access via a local website. Or replace galaxy phone with 2001 era macbook, etc.

Unless you are just trying to downplay the true legitimacy of the software, this is no different than running openssl on your computer. Oops, heartbleed.

You're right, I guess we should just walk away from technology.

Re:Site for illegal activities, just load this... (2)

HockeyPuck (141947) | about 3 months ago | (#46864573)

I've heard this argument since the beginning of time with regards to open source, but is there anybody on earth that could "review the source code" for an entire platform?

At some point you have to trust someone, like the folks that wrote the driver for your USB mouse...

Unless you happen to also understand the USB mouse source code at which point I stand corrected, until you can do USB mouse support and video driver and filesystem and etc etc...

Re:Site for illegal activities, just load this... (2)

swillden (191260) | about 3 months ago | (#46864685)

I've heard this argument since the beginning of time with regards to open source, but is there anybody on earth that could "review the source code" for an entire platform?

Of course not.

How is that relevant to reviewing the source for this markeplace client, and deciding if it's safe or malicious? Or do you think there might be hidden malicious code in your OS that is activated by running this apparently-innocuous application?

Re:Site for illegal activities, just load this... (2, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 months ago | (#46864719)

Heartbleed proves all of your posts moot and irrelevant. Regardless, I'll still use OSS. Just don't hold it up on such a high pedestal next time.

Re:Site for illegal activities, just load this... (1)

funwithBSD (245349) | about 3 months ago | (#46864915)

The day I have no mod points...

Re:Site for illegal activities, just load this... (1)

swillden (191260) | about 3 months ago | (#46864959)

Heartbleed proves all of your posts moot and irrelevant. Regardless, I'll still use OSS. Just don't hold it up on such a high pedestal next time.

Well, if this client is as crufty and badly-written as OpenSSL (which I've been complaining about for years), then you may have a point.

Re:Site for illegal activities, just load this... (1)

Opportunist (166417) | about 3 months ago | (#46864699)

You should rather also review the firmware of your USB mouse, I'd rather expect an exploit in there than in the driver. The USB negotiation between device and computer work on a much lower level than the driver, and without any pesky interference from UAC or other controlling instances.

Re:Site for illegal activities, just load this... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 months ago | (#46865155)

Can't be any worse than installing Windows, who knows where thats been.

Decentralized, NOT Anonymous (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 months ago | (#46864411)

So, it's decentralized, but in tying identities to a public blockchain, you've completely screwed yourself for anonymity. Never mind the fact that I don't trust their code as far as I can throw it. Sorry, nice try guys.

Re:Decentralized, NOT Anonymous (1)

uvajed_ekil (914487) | about 3 months ago | (#46865207)

Why, and why? You raise questions and jump to conclusions, but all without answers. Why is this not anonymous (more or less), and what is wrong with the code? Have you reviewed it? Just blind suspicion?

All the cool kids are doing it! (5, Insightful)

artor3 (1344997) | about 3 months ago | (#46864427)

If you were anywhere near the internet last week, you would have come across reports of 'DarkMarket'

Can we get some editors to remove this crap? It's just a stupid marketing gimmick -- "What, you haven't heard of [PRODUCT_NAME]? You must be living under a rock! Everyone who's anyone knows about [PRODUCT_NAME]!"

Re:All the cool kids are doing it! (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 months ago | (#46864729)

I wish the editors would remove all of your crap.

Re:All the cool kids are doing it! (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 months ago | (#46865043)

[Product Name]?? Holy Puck! Thats like [Plate of Shrimp] from Repo man! Holy shit the aliens have landed in Charlie Sheen's trunk.. Amosh might want to get on dark market and invest in some butt plugs to keep the aliens and tea-publicans out!

Could this affect investment vehicles? (1)

jzatopa (2743773) | about 3 months ago | (#46864509)

It seems like this could the kind of market where anyone who wanted to avoid regulators could exchange goods. I could see people using this for way more then drugs.

Re:Could this affect investment vehicles? (0)

deadweight (681827) | about 3 months ago | (#46864877)

Well it would be like buying Advil at a crackhouse or a meth lab. Advil might be legal, but you are hanging around with people doing plenty of things that are not and it won't be good to have some money in your hand when the DEA/FBI come busting in.

What happens when you wipe the device? (1)

tomhath (637240) | about 3 months ago | (#46864705)

If you get busted this would make excellent evidence...

Re:What happens when you wipe the device? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 months ago | (#46865099)

Until a situation happens like that one episode of cops where the SWAT team prepared to take down a crack house and busted down the door and after searching the house found out they busted into the house of an 80 year old married couple.

Once someone gets busted and prosecuted for buying something that is not drugs or assault weapons, and proven not guilty it will be like one of those situations where a kid gets kicked out of school for shaving their head to make their friend with cancer not feel so weird. There is a point when the person making the argument, along with everyone else, sees that they are in the wrong and have that split second to change course and right the ship, and if they don't, it ends up on Good Morning America and the court of public opinion goes nuts and there really is no PR recovery from that. When you are being criticized by Al Roker and Matt Lauer... you're pretty screwed! Some people think that they are never wrong, and those people, more often than not, go off the deep end.

Like a note in the blockchain: 'dodgy stuff here' (5, Insightful)

gnoshi (314933) | about 3 months ago | (#46864743)

Maybe I'm confused, but it sounds to me like what 'DarkMarket' is doing is irrevocably marking some transactions as being associated with DarkMarket. That strikes me as much like writing 'I was used to buy drugs' on a $50 note except that someone can check the entire transaction history of the $50 note back to the beginning of time.

I guess it will be interesting for researchers assess the proportion of BC that is being used for dubious purposes (unless you actually believe things like 'banned books' are going to be traded on DarkMarket except at the very margins), and feds who want to find people selling drugs (because BC itself is not anonymous [bitcoin.org] ).

Re:Like a note in the blockchain: 'dodgy stuff her (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 months ago | (#46865425)

i may be way off base but it seems to me you could set up a bitcoin tumbler that mixes them in a way that emulates darkmarket transactions and obscures the actual ones?

Very interesting (1)

msobkow (48369) | about 3 months ago | (#46864799)

I've always thought the banking systems should be replaced by decentralized servers, where each individual has a banking server. So instead of going to a central bank for processing, transactions would be issued to the server for the "account" instead.

I figure the government wouldn't like that much.

And most people wouldn't like it because you wouldn't have guaranteed deposits with such a system.

But you could just as easily shift the focus of the banking cartels to being the hosts for such decentralized servers, taking on the responsibility for security and backups on behalf of the account owner/holder.

Just as a for-example, imagine GNU Cash with a remote access protocol that lets other people's GNU Cash instances post transaction pieces to your box. So when your employer issues a direct deposit, instead of going to a bank, it goes to your server and gets deposited directly to your personal server and account using protocols along the line of Bitcoin.

I figure it's the only way to break the US stranglehold on the global banking systems.

wrong (1)

slashmydots (2189826) | about 3 months ago | (#46864889)

Wow, what a flawless system! Except...
You show up in person to buy or sell drugs and it's a sting. You mail them and it gets seized or the target and/or sender gets arrested via tracking. Or you mail them to a central escrow hub that also gets traced and arrested and shut down. What a great set of 3 options.

Re:wrong (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 months ago | (#46864987)

People in the past imported drugs through USPS. Deniability and playing the mass of mail.

I'm fine with that! (1)

TrollstonButterbeans (2914995) | about 3 months ago | (#46865223)

"You show up in person to buy or sell drugs and it's a sting. "
You mail them and it gets seized or the target and/or sender gets arrested via tracking.

It's ALL GOOD as long as it is YOU!

Everyone's muling? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 months ago | (#46865107)

So if everyone is hosting and serving up peices of the site that sells drugs, that does mean anyone has the app to view and distribute info for site is guilty of being a drug mule?

fiuck off beta (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 months ago | (#46865149)

you know how im talking too

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