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Oil Man Proposes Increase In Oklahoma Oil-and-Gas Tax

Unknown Lamer posted about 6 months ago | from the we're-passing-it-downstream-anyway dept.

The Almighty Buck 182

Hugh Pickens DOT Com (2995471) writes "Daniel Gilbert reports at the WSJ that Oklahoma oil man George Kaiser is breaking with fellow energy executives in asking the state to raise taxes on oil companies, including his own. 'Oklahoma is in desperate financial circumstances,' says the billionaire who controls Kaiser-Francis Oil Co. Kaiser says a higher tax on oil-and-gas production could help the state pay for education and much needed infrastructure improvements, and is asking legislators to return the state's gross production tax to 7 percent, challenging a plan proposed by fellow oil company executives who want to see the rate settle at 2 percent for the first four years of production.

Several energy companies and the State Chamber of Oklahoma say that lower tax rates for the costliest oil and gas wells are necessary to continue drilling at a pace that has stimulated economic activity and created other sources of revenue. Berry Mullennix, CEO at Tulsa-based Panther Energy, credits the tax program for helping his company grow to more than 90 employees, up from 18 a few years ago. 'I would argue the tax incentive is a direct reason we have so much horizontal drilling in the state today,' Mullennix says ... When companies decide to drill a well, they make their best guesses on how much it will cost to drill the well, how much the well will produce and what the commodity price will be. All of those estimates can vary widely, Kaiser says. 'With ad valorem taxes, the difference among states is 2 or 3 or 4 percent. The other factors can vary by 50 or 100 percent.' Compared with those other factors, Kaiser says the tax rate is incidental. 'It's a rounding error.'"

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Stop the presses! (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 6 months ago | (#46988211)

A rich asshole who has everything life has to offer feels guilty and proposes liberal ideas. No! Say it ain't so! That's SO unique!

Re:Stop the presses! (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 6 months ago | (#46988239)

A rich asshole who has everything life has to offer feels guilty and proposes liberal ideas. No! Say it ain't so! That's SO unique!

all he needs to do now is convince a bunch of EBT receiving ghetto blacks that a politically connected harvard law professor is somehow one of them and understands what life in the hood is like. "he's a similar color to me - he gets my vote!"

Oil Man wants more money? (-1, Troll)

Dan Askme (2895283) | about 6 months ago | (#46988217)

Not news, just greed.

Slashdot poster didn't read the summary? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 6 months ago | (#46988271)

Not news, just laziness.

Re:Oil Man wants more money? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 6 months ago | (#46988309)

How is this going to get him more money?

Re:Oil Man wants more money? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 6 months ago | (#46988355)

Taxation is the liberal's solution to everything. And oil and gas tax is a very regressive form of taxation. What percentage of his billions do you think him or the Cock brothers spend on gasoline or heating oil?

Re:Oil Man wants more money? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 6 months ago | (#46988549)

Taxation is the liberal's solution to everything. And oil and gas tax is a very regressive form of taxation. What percentage of his billions do you think him or the Cock brothers spend on gasoline or heating oil?

What percentage of your life do you and other "progressives" spend worrying about other peoples' wealth?

Re:Oil Man wants more money? (1)

bigtone78 (943249) | about 6 months ago | (#46988563)

I think they are raising taxes on the oil and gas companies and not directly the oil and gas that consumers purchase. However, to your point they probably spend a very little percentage of their billions on gas or heating oil but that's not what the article is about.

Re:Oil Man wants more money? (1)

causality (777677) | about 6 months ago | (#46988865)

I think they are raising taxes on the oil and gas companies and not directly the oil and gas that consumers purchase.

So how do you do one without also doing the other? Or to put it another way: if you raise the taxes of all oil/gas companies, what do you think those companies are going to do next?

Re:Oil Man wants more money? (1, Informative)

PopeRatzo (965947) | about 6 months ago | (#46989235)

So how do you do one without also doing the other?

Prices are not affected by this type of ad volorem tax. The theory, at least, is that prices are set by competition and corporate tax rates do not enter into it.

As Republican Bruce Bartlett (Reagan Administration, George HW Bush Administration, staff of Jack Kemp and Ron Paul) reluctantly admits:

"Most economists don't believe that much, if any, of the corporate tax is shifted onto consumers this way, because corporations face competition from noncorporate businesses, such as sole proprietorships and partnerships, and from businesses based in countries with higher or lower corporate taxes. Competition sets prices for goods and services without regard to the corporate tax rate."

The owners of capital are the ones who pay corporate taxes, not consumers.

Now it's a moving target, because our corporate laws give lots of leeway to corporations to try to shift those costs to workers and consumers, so the level is always a moving target. Corporate tax rates are not "set and forget". If you're going to minimize companies externalizing their costs onto the citizens, you have to constantly fiddle with those rates, which is something that has Congress is willing to do in the era of big money politics.

Re: Oil Man wants more money? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 6 months ago | (#46988633)

Yes taxes are evil. If they a not cut to zero the terrorist have already won.

Re: Oil Man wants more money? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 6 months ago | (#46988923)

Dont be silly if they cut taxes to Zero - how are we going to fund the pork barrel that is the defense industry?

Corporations would like tax raised to 100% ie the return of having to shop AT their shop.

Re:Oil Man wants more money? (1)

PopeRatzo (965947) | about 6 months ago | (#46989125)

And oil and gas tax is a very regressive form of taxation.

Then don't worry, because the tax this man is proposing is neither an oil nor a gas tax.

It is an ad volorem production tax. It is not a point-of-sale tax. It's more along the lines of a VAT.

The idea is that there are enormous external costs that oil and gas producers pass on to people without their consent. These taxes are meant in a very tiny way to obviate those external costs. There really is no other way to do it. Corporate structure in the US economy has been mutated to make more and more of the costs of production external. And not just in the fossil fuel industry.

Hugh Pickens DOT Com (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 6 months ago | (#46988267)

Is this a real person or some long running RSS->Slashdot script. The posts are so broad and often asinine, can't be a person.

Re:Hugh Pickens DOT Com (1)

Nimey (114278) | about 6 months ago | (#46988629)

Hugh Pickens has at least three accounts that I've seen attached to stories.

Re:Hugh Pickens DOT Com (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 6 months ago | (#46988801)

Notice he didn't start posting until after Roland Picquapille "died"?

Everyone prepare for Armageddon! (3, Funny)

killfixx (148785) | about 6 months ago | (#46988297)

An oil tycoon wants to give more of his money away, on purpose! Truly this is the first sign of the end of days!

Good for him... He thinks he doesn't pay enough taxes... That's mind blowing.

Weird.

Re:Everyone prepare for Armageddon! (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 6 months ago | (#46988327)

He doesn't want his heavy, expensive mobile drilling rigs, product transport vehicles and service trucks to be shaken to bits by craptastic roads.

Re:Everyone prepare for Armageddon! (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 6 months ago | (#46988333)

If he really wants to give away money, nobody is stopping him. He wants to give away everybody else's money.

Re:Everyone prepare for Armageddon! (3, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about 6 months ago | (#46988773)

You mean he wants to divide the costs of infrastructure evenly amongst the people who benefit it? Outrageous! Someone get the rope!

Re:Everyone prepare for Armageddon! (1)

gnupun (752725) | about 6 months ago | (#46988975)

Or Oklahoma could cut/reduce costs and services until it recovers financially instead of placing an even bigger burden on its citizens.

Re:Everyone prepare for Armageddon! (4, Insightful)

ibwolf (126465) | about 6 months ago | (#46989031)

As if cutting/reducing services does not place a burden on its citizens?

If something can be cut without the citizens noticing it, then cut it (regardless of overall financial health, it's just waste).

But most services are there for a reason. It may be a lesser burden (especially if you take the long term view) to raise taxes than to allow certain services to degrade past the point of utility.

Re:Everyone prepare for Armageddon! (1)

edawstwin (242027) | about 6 months ago | (#46989455)

...most services are there for a reason.

Yes, to buy votes.

Re:Everyone prepare for Armageddon! (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 6 months ago | (#46989181)

You're obviously unaware of the pitiful level of services the state already provides.

Re:Everyone prepare for Armageddon! (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 6 months ago | (#46988335)

He'll probably increase his prices to adjust for the increase in taxes. The price of oil and gas production go up, and his margins are all a wash.

Re:Everyone prepare for Armageddon! (2)

oh_my_080980980 (773867) | about 6 months ago | (#46988687)

LMOL...oil prices are set on the commodities market not be oil companies.

Re:Everyone prepare for Armageddon! (1)

CrimsonAvenger (580665) | about 6 months ago | (#46988337)

More likely, he thinks his competition doesn't pay enough taxes...

Re:Everyone prepare for Armageddon! (1)

Assmasher (456699) | about 6 months ago | (#46988385)

That's one of the most cynical observations I've ever read on Slashdot... Doesn't make it any less true though. LOL.

Re:Everyone prepare for Armageddon! (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 6 months ago | (#46988545)

More accurately, he thinks he can afford an increase that his competition cannot. Once the competition goes away, he can set his own margins at whatever rate he wants to cover the increased taxes and make even more money long-term.

Never blindly trust anyone arguing for higher taxes. If they felt a personal need to give more to a government, nothing stops them from donating directly to the treasury.

Re:Everyone prepare for Armageddon! (5, Informative)

BKDotCom (542787) | about 6 months ago | (#46988515)

Actually, George Kaiser is Tulsa's largest philanthropist (perhaps in Oklahoma)
he's donated millions to Tulsa's park system.
Including at least a $100 million for a park project that begins construction this year
http://agatheringplacefortulsa... [agathering...rtulsa.com]

Re:Everyone prepare for Armageddon! (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 6 months ago | (#46988625)

How much has T. boone pickens donated to Oklahoma State University ... er, its football program?

self serving jerk making a name (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 6 months ago | (#46989369)

That's nice he's donating money to parks, when there are schools with leaking roofs. And some schools in TPS, Burroughs for example, send children home with food so they will have something to eat over the weekend.

Much of Tulsa lives in the poverty that's equal to any major inner city slum and this joker is building parks so that affluent people can say what a wonderful person he is.

Re:Everyone prepare for Armageddon! (1)

DigiShaman (671371) | about 6 months ago | (#46988531)

He already made his billion, what does he care other then having other people pay for his atonement. This tax will just roll off onto the customer.

Re:Everyone prepare for Armageddon! (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 6 months ago | (#46988579)

He already made his billion, what does he care other then having other people pay for his atonement. This tax will just roll off onto the customer.

That's what all corporate taxes do. With no exceptions, making it awfully regressive for any customers of any corporation who are not wealthy. But taxing the faceless corps scores points with economically illiterate voters.

Federal income tax alone accounts for something like 20% of the sticker price of every item you buy. Every corporation in the chain from the manufacturer to the wholesaler to the retailer had to pay corporate income taxes.

Re:Everyone prepare for Armageddon! (0)

fnj (64210) | about 6 months ago | (#46988995)

economically illiterate voters

Call them what they are. Stupid people. And tell me this: why should the minority with functioning brain stems have to be dictated to by stupid people with stupid agendas?

Re:Everyone prepare for Armageddon! (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 6 months ago | (#46988585)

Good for him... He thinks he doesn't pay enough taxes... That's mind blowing.

Warren Buffet it also on record saying he isn't opposed to paying more taxes.

Apparently, some of the rich folks aren't entirely greedy douchebags, and understand what taxes are collected for and realize them as necessary.

The Tea Partiers and most of the Republicans ... well, they're just greedy douchebags with a fantasy view of economics.

Re:Everyone prepare for Armageddon! (1)

I'm New Around Here (1154723) | about 6 months ago | (#46988713)

Warren Buffet could easily pay more taxes. He would just have to start taking compensation as salary, rather than as stock.

He is the biggest hypocrite in this sort of discussion.

Re:Everyone prepare for Armageddon! (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 6 months ago | (#46988909)

Fuck man, it gets better than that. He's donating his money to the Bill Gates Foundation, bypassing the government coffers. Ask him why and he'll tell you that Bill Gates is better at redistributing money than the government.

Re:Everyone prepare for Armageddon! (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 6 months ago | (#46989193)

Which might actually be true, considering how much of a money black hole the feds are.

Re:Everyone prepare for Armageddon! (2)

Charliemopps (1157495) | about 6 months ago | (#46988599)

um... no... he wants to give more of YOUR money away. The alternative would likely be an increase in income taxes which would likely be progressive and come directly out of his pocket. A gas tax is applied to everyone equally based on their gasoline use.

"...He is among the top 100 richest people in the world..."
and
"...during the 1980s bust in the oil industry in Oklahoma and Texas, Kaiser bought up struggling energy companies whose losses provided him with tax deductions that effectively offset his own income and left him with little or no tax liability..."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G... [wikipedia.org]

The dudes not stupid.

Re:Everyone prepare for Armageddon! (1)

fnj (64210) | about 6 months ago | (#46989057)

The alternative would likely be an increase in income taxes which would likely be progressive and come directly out of his pocket.

Sorry; no. The 73,954 pages [townhall.com] of the Federal Income Tax Code blow that theory to hell. CEOs and other parasitic rich pricks leverage the countless loopholes to avoid the taxes.

Re:Everyone prepare for Armageddon! (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 6 months ago | (#46988709)

God, you are dumb. They will pass this expense to the consumer. It doesn't come out of his pockets.

Re:Everyone prepare for Armageddon! (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 6 months ago | (#46989011)

the oil price is set by the world market

Re:Everyone prepare for Armageddon! (1)

Richy_T (111409) | about 6 months ago | (#46989021)

He doesn't want to give more of his money away otherwise he just would. He wants the government to take more of other peoples money.

If he's an executive, the shareholders should fire him. Though he probably has some sweet golden parachute deal.

Idle threats (5, Insightful)

tedgyz (515156) | about 6 months ago | (#46988305)

The other companies that argue higher taxes would scare them from drilling are full of crap. How about paying a fair share to keep the infrastructure well maintained and the populace well educated?

As the last line of the summary says. Compared with those other factors, Kaiser says the tax rate is incidental. 'It's a rounding error.'"

Re:Idle threats (1)

CrimsonAvenger (580665) | about 6 months ago | (#46988349)

How about paying a fair share to keep the infrastructure well maintained and the populace well educated?

So, what, exactly, is a "fair share"? And how did you decide how much "fair" was?

Do YOU pay that much? If not, why not?

Re:Idle threats (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 6 months ago | (#46988397)

I pay more than zero... which means i pay more than Boeing, Exxon, GE, Verizon. Citigroup, Dow, and IBM put together.

Re:Idle threats (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 6 months ago | (#46988559)

You're an idiot if you think these companies aren't paying taxes. These companies pay billions of dollars in federal, state, payroll, property and sales taxes.

Re:Idle threats (4, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | about 6 months ago | (#46988649)

Uhh huh

http://www.alternet.org/corporate-accountability-and-workplace/16-giant-corporations-have-basically-stopped-paying-taxes

"General Electric: The worst tax record over five years, with $81 billion in profits and a $3 billion refund.

Boeing: In addition to receiving a refund despite $21.5 billion in profits, the company ranked high in job cutting, underfunded pensions, and contractor misconduct.

Exxon Mobil: Made by far the largest profits in the group, but paid less than 1% in U.S. taxes, and yet received oil subsidies along with their tax breaks. Unabashedly reports a 2012 "theoretical tax" of over $27 billion, almost 90% of its total income tax expense. The company was also near the top in contractor misconduct.

Verizon: Second worst tax record, with a refund despite $48 billion in profits.

Kraft Foods: Received a refund from the public despite $13.5 billion in profits. Also a leading job-cutter.

Citigroup: One of the five big banks who are estimated to get a bailout/refund from the American public amounting to three cents from every tax dollar.

Dow Chemical: Received a refund despite almost $10 billion in profits.

IBM: Paid less than 3% in taxes while ranking as one of the leading job cutters, and near the top in contractor misconduct.

Chevron: In addition to a meager 4.3% tax rate and a share of oil subsidies, the company has been the main beneficiary of tax-exempt government bonds."

Wheres my $3 billion refund?!?

Re:Idle threats (1)

I'm New Around Here (1154723) | about 6 months ago | (#46988723)

Do you think receiving a refund means people don't pay taxes?

Re:Idle threats (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 6 months ago | (#46988907)

Wheres my $3 billion refund?!?

You have to pay in at least $3 billion worth of taxes to get a $3 billion refund, idiot.

Re:Idle threats (1)

edawstwin (242027) | about 6 months ago | (#46989481)

Wheres my $3 billion refund?!?

Start a company that employs tens of thousands of tax-paying employees and we'll talk.

Re:Idle threats (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 6 months ago | (#46988469)

You and two friends are dining at a restaurant. After finishing the meal, it's time to pay the bill. What exactly is the "fair" way to split up the bill?

1. Each of the three people pay a third of the bill.
2. Each of the three people pay for what they ordered.
3. Each of the three people pay based on how much money they have.

It seems that (1) is unfair if someone ordered steak and lobster, and the other two ordered a hamburger. I think (3) is unfair for similar reasons, if the richest person ordered a hamburger and the other two ordered steak and lobster. I think that what is "fair" is that everyone pays for what they receive.

Re:Idle threats (2)

Goglu (774689) | about 6 months ago | (#46988511)

Society is not a restaurant.

Re:Idle threats (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 6 months ago | (#46988581)

It's called an analogy, dipshit. If you think the analogy doesn't make sense then explain why you think so.

Re:Idle threats (1)

oh_my_080980980 (773867) | about 6 months ago | (#46988695)

He already did moron.

Re:Idle threats (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 6 months ago | (#46988839)

If I try to explain the human circulatory system to you by using a car analogy and you say "HUMANS AREN'T CARS!!!11" then I think you might be mildly retarded.

Re:Idle threats (1)

causality (777677) | about 6 months ago | (#46988613)

Society is not a restaurant.

That's a useless statement of the obvious until and unless you provide another definition of "fair" that you believe better applies to society. The AC at least provided a line of reasoning.

Personally I'd like to see the IRS eliminated and the Fair Tax Act implemented. The funny thing about that Act: I've never seen someone rail against it who actually understood how it works. Of course total ignorance about its most basic details didn't seem to stop such people from passionately demonizing it. Gotta love that. One could say that a notion of "fairness" includes not opposing something you aren't even slightly familiar with.

Re:Idle threats (1)

oh_my_080980980 (773867) | about 6 months ago | (#46988711)

Wow a libertarian who opposes the IRS, news at a 11.

Re:Idle threats (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 6 months ago | (#46988745)

"Wow an abolitionist that opposes slavery, news at 11."

Not really an argument against slavery though, is it?

Re:Idle threats (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 6 months ago | (#46989079)

I think (3) is unfair for similar reasons, if the richest person ordered a hamburger and the other two ordered steak and lobster.

On the other hand, if everyone ordered a hamburger but only the richest person can afford one, then it makes the most sense for that person to pay for the other two. Otherwise all three of them are gonna be doing dishes...

Re:Idle threats (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 6 months ago | (#46989123)

Fine, so long as two people working the same 8 hour day get paid the same for their labor. Oh, Mr CEO, who just so happens to set the pay scales, is paid 1000 times more than Mr Janitor? Then he can buy the damned meal.

Fairness isn't about giving everyone an equal portion of medicine, it's about giving medicine to whoever _needs_ it.

Re:Idle threats (1)

drainbramage (588291) | about 6 months ago | (#46988393)

I don't know what school you went to but it should be nuked from orbit and your parents need to be dope slapped, twice, just to make sure.
Lets seem 7 percent versus 2 percent....
Well golly, that's darn close to 5 percent.
Or in your math. a rounding error.
Really?

Re:Idle threats (2, Insightful)

causality (777677) | about 6 months ago | (#46988647)

I don't know what school you went to but it should be nuked from orbit and your parents need to be dope slapped, twice, just to make sure. Lets seem 7 percent versus 2 percent.... Well golly, that's darn close to 5 percent. Or in your math. a rounding error. Really?

Comparing the current tax rate to the proposed tax increase is not a "rounding error" at all. It's five percent, just as you say.

Comparing the additional cost of this proposed tax increase to all the other costs involved in obtaining the fuels is what has been identified as a rounding error.

So, while what you say is correct, you're missing the point entirely. This is why context is more important than trying to show everyone how clever you are for finding the obvious "flaw" everyone else "missed". It would be wonderful to see a single Slashdot discussion where your mistake isn't repeated.

Re:Idle threats (1)

tedgyz (515156) | about 6 months ago | (#46988675)

Never mind RTFA, how about RTFS? I was quoting the summary. The point was not meant to be literal. It is an expression meant to point out how little this would impact the cost of drilling.

Re:Idle threats (1)

SirSlud (67381) | about 6 months ago | (#46988701)

Yikes. And you think *he's* dumb?

Re:Idle threats (0)

DNS-and-BIND (461968) | about 6 months ago | (#46988673)

The fallacy that you are under is that "more money = solves the government's problems". This, in fact, is not the case.

When government receives new money, the first thing they do is blow it on stupid stuff and reward their supporters. Secondly, they buy votes with new "free money" programs. Third, they then borrow money against the next 10-20 years of this new revenue, and spend it immediately. Then what happens?

Government is out of money, raise taxes, get more money, cycle repeats. It's a sad story. I wish that new taxes would once and for all fix the government's problems, but they don't. It's like trying to cure obesity with more food.

Re:Idle threats (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 6 months ago | (#46988867)

The fallacy that you are under is that "more money = solves the government's problems". This, in fact, is not the case.

True, but in this case the problem is that the government is running out of money - a problem that is well suited to a solution of "take more money". (don't start - I already know that another solution might be "spend less money", where possible, anyway)

Re:Idle threats (1)

Trepidity (597) | about 6 months ago | (#46988683)

In particular because oil isn't really something that spoils with age, nor is it something that's getting less valuable over time, as a general trend. Even if higher taxes did result in some more oil being left in the ground this year, it'd just be pumped later, probably for more money.

I hate political spam. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 6 months ago | (#46988371)

Ah yes. Our daily not news story from the left wing. If I wanted fake news I'd just go to MSNBC.

Not convinced (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 6 months ago | (#46988377)

Looks like he is objecting to the tax rebates to encourage new drilling. Perhaps his oil wells don't qualify for the tax rebates and he doesn't want new competition?

that new new... (1)

Connie_Lingus (317691) | about 6 months ago | (#46988411)

...one of my favorite infotainers rush limbaugh was talking about this very meme yesterday on his show.

it was an idea based on an article here [nationalreview.com] that postulates that super wealthy individuals propose liberal ideas not because they really believe them, but to shield themselves from criticisms from the media.

so it's basically a 100% political act, which really makes a ton of economic sense for this guy...it's not like these tax increases are gonna affect his life in anyway.

i must say...due to the timing it would seem that mr. kaiser is a rush fan.

Re:that new new... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 6 months ago | (#46988575)

No, it makes Mr. Kaiser a coward. Why doesn't he just donate most of his wealth IN PERSON to the poor?

Re:that new new... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 6 months ago | (#46989089)

That's a pretty good point. I've lived in Oklahoma for about 20 years now. Here's a little factoid that illustrates one of the state's problems: The capitol building was originally designed to have a dome. But when it was built, they couldn't afford it. So, for decades, the capitol building was dome-less. Then, in the mid 90s, a lot of rich guys in Oklahoma (I would not be surprised if Kaiser was one of them) decided to put their money together and put a dome on the capitol. The cost was around $32 million, I believe. Meanwhile, my daughter had to share textbooks with other kids at school because there was not enough money for everyone to have a textbook.

Okies are famous for having misplaced priorities. Want to put a dome on the capitol? Let's do it! Want a monument to the Ten Commandments on the capitol lawn? Let me get my checkbook! How about some new bridges or school textbooks? (sound of crickets chirping).

Perhaps Kaiser has found a conscience. Great. There is nothing preventing him from taking what he wants to pay in extra taxes and directly funding some bridge building, or whatever. He can name the bridges after himself. Or build a "Kaiser Middle School" somewhere.

Re:that new new... (4, Informative)

pogopogo (464296) | about 6 months ago | (#46989309)

No, he's the opposite of Limbaugh -- he's a philanthropist.

He was listed as the third largest donor behind Warren Buffett and Bill and Melinda Gates in 2008. He's also taken the Giving Pledge to give away half of his wealth to charity. The George Kaiser Family Foundation gives millions to the causes of education, child poverty, and community health services.

He's been proposing eliminating tax breaks for oil and gas companies for years. He would rather the money go to health and education.

He's not using this as a political stunt, he's willing to put his money where it counts instead of just being a blowhard like Limbaugh.

George Kaiser = Solyndra (0)

iceperson (582205) | about 6 months ago | (#46988413)

This is the guy who bilked half a billion from the American taxpayer.

Lack of demand, not capital, not labor is the key. (5, Insightful)

140Mandak262Jamuna (970587) | about 6 months ago | (#46988493)

Berry Mullennix, CEO at Tulsa-based Panther Energy, credits the tax program for helping his company grow to more than 90 employees, up from 18 a few years ago. 'I would argue the tax incentive is a direct reason we have so much horizontal drilling in the state today,' Mullennix says

It would be far more efficient to tax the damned company and keep it at 18 people and use the money to bridges and roads and schools. That would create far more than the measly 72 jobs created by that company.

Look, these entrepreneurs are hard negotiators. If the taxpayers start with, "please please please create some jobs", they will ask for an arm and a leg. You give them an arm and a leg they will be back next year, "an arm and a leg? That was last year. What are you gonna give us this year?". You give another arm and a leg. And the year after they ditch you and go to the next country or state or country because, "your state has people without arms and legs, we can't employ them".

There is plenty of capital. If this Panther Energy does not want to invest there will be a Jaguar Energy or Tiger Energy. The capital markets are sloshing with 3 trillion dollars not knowing where to invest. Tell them the same thing they tell their employees, "this is what this job pays, if you don't like it, keep moving there are plenty who would work at this wage". Well, "this is what costs to do business in our state. If you don't like it, keep moving there are plenty of other investors for us". Unless the tax payer negotiates like this, you will not get anywhere. These crony capitalists invest in the election system, and get their own shills elected as legislators and government executives. That is why money in politics is so insidious.

What we now lack is demand. That is what is stifling the growth. Not the lack of capital, Not the lack of labor (lack of labor would lead to wage inflation). What we need is tough negotiators to represent the tax payers in the government.

Re:Lack of demand, not capital, not labor is the k (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 6 months ago | (#46988991)

+1.

Companies don't create jobs: *Demand* creates jobs. Companies merely respond to demand.

Besides, over 90% of new money is created by banks through credit, so there can't be a lack of funds.

No demand, no growth, no investment, no jobs.

Re:Lack of demand, not capital, not labor is the k (1)

misexistentialist (1537887) | about 6 months ago | (#46989043)

Sounds like you want tough negotiations with oil production corporations getting tax breaks...so you can dump piles of tax money on construction corporations dreaming up scam "public works" projects. The only way to get government to spend tax money better is to make sure it has hardly any.

We all need to pay higher taxes (1)

BobMcD (601576) | about 6 months ago | (#46988551)

Fact of the matter is, our tax rates are too low to cover our preferred lifestyle. Full stop.

So if we'd like to continue living in the manner we're accustomed, taxes absolutely positively have to go up. And the pain of that needs to be allowed to flow down from the top to the lower class just as it has throughout the millennia, without monetary meddling.

Anything short of this will result in the eventual collapse of the system. There's simply no way around it.

And that's the thing that bothers me about the Blue Team and their 'denier' slander they love to toss around. If you think we can keep on spending the way we have been and rely on the rich to bail us out, you're as guilty of magical thinking as the 'climate deniers'. You'll take your preferred scientific paper as gospel needed to change the world, sure no problem. But math? Nah, we don't need to believe in that heresy!

At least the Red Team is just greedy. That's easy to understand, and easy to anticipate.

Re:We all need to pay higher taxes (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 6 months ago | (#46989237)

More taxes does not increase lifestyle. You can't take money from one pocket and then give it to another pocket and end up with more than you started with.

win through compromise (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 6 months ago | (#46988577)

Compromise the customer to win.

Won't happen (2, Insightful)

Nimey (114278) | about 6 months ago | (#46988601)

Oklahoma is one of the most conservative states of the Union. Instead the state government, under pressure from jerb creators, will cut social programs and raise sales taxes, while cutting corporate income taxes.

Why gas companies? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 6 months ago | (#46988733)

Why raise taxes on oil and gas companies? Wouldn't it be more fair to increase the gasoline tax at the pump so that everyone pays for the bridge/road construction instead of having a select few pay? Same for property taxes and sales tax.

Time to declare war (0)

Dishwasha (125561) | about 6 months ago | (#46988749)

How dare the impoverished state of Oklahoma try to make the rest of America pay more for oil. Time to invade this agriculturally stunted land and then instead raise federal taxes to pay for our fight against this financial and economic aggressor.

Re:Time to declare war (1)

Virtucon (127420) | about 6 months ago | (#46989457)

We already pay more for oil, it's called the free market where oil and gas are traded as commodities. Problems in the Ukraine, the price of oil and gas goes up. Problems with Iran, oil and gas go up. The problem is that the brokers and middlemen all take their cut and the producer gets a windfall. Unfortunately because they've claimed poverty and the need for incentives to produce, they get tax breaks in terms of property taxes both on land and equipment. Oil and Gas production in this nation has gamed the system in their favor and it's nice to see somebody from within actually call bullshit on the practice.

No (1)

unixcorn (120825) | about 6 months ago | (#46988849)

First, increasing corporate taxes will ultimately increase the cost to consumers.
Second, we are currently sitting on the largest oil supply in over 40 years. Why haven't prices plummeted? I blame the speculators. Not those looking for oil, but the middlemen trading and making a profit on someone else's work.
If it were up to me and I was truly concerned with why we can no longer afford to fully fund education, I would be looking at where our Federal taxes are going and asking why we get nearly zero dollars back to states for education from the Feds.

Re:No (1)

fnj (64210) | about 6 months ago | (#46989209)

with why we can no longer afford to fully fund education

It's more about hemorrhaging money for Taj Mahal schools and paying teachers more money than god for half a year's "work". My teachers in the 1950s and early 60's taught for very short money because they loved it and were dedicated, and they did an infinitely better job of it than today's grossly overpaid teachers and administrators.

For education, ZERO dollars should flow from the feds to the states, and minimal dollars from the states to the towns. That's how it was when education actually WORKED.

Re:No (1)

EmagGeek (574360) | about 6 months ago | (#46989467)

The price hasn't plummeted because, while the supply is large, the cost of extraction is much higher, owing to its much higher difficulty. It's not as simple as drilling into a big cavern and sucking it out, you know.

Probably not what it appears (1)

Troyusrex (2446430) | about 6 months ago | (#46988979)

My bet is that he wants to go to 7% tax straight away instead of having the tax at 2% for the first four years because his wells are older than those of other companies and this tax structure would put him at a disadvantage? Unfortunately, more often than not when businesses push for regulations it's not out of pure motives but as a way to restrict competition.

Re:Probably not what it appears (1)

geekoid (135745) | about 6 months ago | (#46989513)

He drills new wells as well. The 2% is on new production, not new companies.

He wants 7% becasue the state needs the money. There is no need for an ulterior motive here.

Says the man who is already rich (1)

RogueWarrior65 (678876) | about 6 months ago | (#46989075)

Not an unexpected proposal from a guy who already made his pile of money. Close the door behind him so nobody else gets to play by the same rules he did. I'd like to know how much money he would have had to pay in taxes if this were implemented when he was starting out.

Deficit Spending In The Guise of Job Creation (2)

EXTomar (78739) | about 6 months ago | (#46989183)

Texas has this issue too where Perry runs around to "over regulated liberal states", dishes up big tax breaks for them to put a plant in Texas, and ignores the costs while claiming all of the unrealized future benefits! Going to California and cutting a tax break to a small company of the tune of $50 million is a boon to that company but it makes no sense to the market or the state because they will never "create" $50 million in revenue for the state.

This behavior is stuff that creates bubbles and is just government deficit spending under the guise of "job creation". But that isn't their concern today is it because when the time comes that the business fails or overloaded infrastructure needs upgrades and expansions they won't have to deal with the raising taxes or a bond because they'll be long gone.

Having lived in Oklahoma... (1)

kick6 (1081615) | about 6 months ago | (#46989241)

I can patently say it won't matter either way. The additional tax revenue won't go to education, it won't repair the state's shitty roads, it won't help anyone. It will be pissed away into the pockets of crony contractors who don't seem to accomplish ANYTHING, in classic Oklahoma style.

Socialist (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 6 months ago | (#46989265)

Have the Fox News talking idiots called him a socialist yet? A while back Warren Buffet said that he thought people like himself (rich) ought to pay more in taxes. And right on cue, those talking idiots started calling him a socialist. Can you believe it, Warren fucking Buffet a socialist! "I don't think that word means what you think it does."

Re:Socialist (1)

EmagGeek (574360) | about 6 months ago | (#46989375)

Actually, they started calling him a hypocrite, not a socialist. He is a hypocrite because, while he insists he should pay more in tax, he actually does not. Nothing is stopping him making a gift to the treasury in the amount he thinks he ought to be paying, but they have yet to receive any payments.

Re:Socialist (1)

geekoid (135745) | about 6 months ago | (#46989493)

It's the collective action [problem.

Also, there is the issue where raising it for all is a level playing field.

Nothing in any TAX benefits education (1)

zoomshorts (137587) | about 6 months ago | (#46989407)

The lottery claims to support education, the politicians claim their legeslation will benefit education, it is ALL lies. These people need to die. End of story.

no (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 6 months ago | (#46989433)

Nothing stops him from paying more in taxes then required. But if they want to increases the taxes by 5% I'm sure ND would welcome them to drill here. The taxes directly from oil companies that have much impact. It is the jobs they create that helps the state the most. Adding 1000 jobs means 1000 less off welfare and 1000 more paying taxes which has more meaning then seeing a big tax number from oil companies. A lot of the tax dollars will be wasted anyway.

This guy dose not want to have taxes raised on oil because it is the "right thing to do" he has something planned to take advantage of it. If he really wanted to improved schools he would suggest making schools into charter schools, just pouring money into schools do nothing.

72 more employees: whoop dee do. (1)

geekoid (135745) | about 6 months ago | (#46989463)

72 more employees doesn't really matter when the state is going to hell. If it was enough employees to make a difference in state revenue, they would have a point.

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