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Goodbye, Ctrl-S

Soulskill posted about 4 months ago | from the couldn't-save-itself dept.

Technology 521

An anonymous reader writes "'Save your work!' — This was a rallying cry for an entire generation of workers and students. The frequency and unpredictability of software crashes, power outages, and hardware failures made it imperative to constantly hit that save button. But in 2014? Not so much. My documents are automatically saved (with versioning) every time I make a change. My IDE commits code changes automatically. Many webforms will save drafts of whatever data I'm entering. Heck, even the games I play have an autosave feature. It's an interesting change — the young generation will grow up with an implicit trust that whatever they type into a computer will stay there. Maybe this is my generation's version of: 'In my day, we had to get up and walk across the room to change the channel on the TV!' In any case, it has some subtle but interesting effects on how people write, play, and create. No longer do we have to have constant interruptions to worry about whether our changes are saved — but at the same time, we don't have that pause to take a moment and reflect on what we've written. I'm sure we've all had moments where our hands hover over a save/submit button before changing our minds and hammering the backspace key. Maybe now we'll have to think before we write."

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521 comments

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Never used this keystroke (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#47075135)

I've been using computers for over 30 years and have never once used this keystroke.

Re:Never used this keystroke (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#47075237)

I've been using computers for over 30 years and have never once used this keystroke.

In 30 years you've never produced anything worth saving? That's quite a feat.

Re:Never used this keystroke (4, Informative)

BronsCon (927697) | about 4 months ago | (#47075311)

Quite possibly, he's a Mac user, so it would be Command-S. That, or someone loves their mouse a little too much and never bothered to learn keyboard shortcuts.

Re:Never used this keystroke (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#47075427)

what an idiotic assumption on your part. what if he used alt+f, s. or just clicked the file menu and did it manually.

you're a fucking idiot.

Re:Never used this keystroke (1)

mythosaz (572040) | about 4 months ago | (#47075307)

Sometimes the challenge with Ctrl-S was that you often didn't know if it did anything, and you found yourself going to the File menu to see if the Save button was grey, or to click it more than a few times "just to be sure."

Trusting that your Google Doc was saved without hitting a button, or that a draft of your email was auto-generated takes a bit of trust that takes a while to build.

If you're not a heavy user, it'll take time to build that trust.

Re:Never used this keystroke (1)

Steve_Ussler (2941703) | about 4 months ago | (#47075457)

You dont get the then poweruser award!

CTRL+S (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#47075145)

Jesus saves!

Re:CTRL+S (2)

mmell (832646) | about 4 months ago | (#47075407)

Jesus saves!

At First National Bank and Trust.

mmell LIBEL classics (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#47075661)

Saying I use hosts to evade police while I surf little boy porn http://slashdot.org/comments.p... [slashdot.org]

Libeling me saying my WARE IS A VIRUS etc. too? Please -> http://slashdot.org/comments.p... [slashdot.org] (1 of 2)

Libeling me saying my WARE IS A VIRUS etc. too? Please -> http://slashdot.org/comments.p... [slashdot.org] (2 of 2)

THEN RECANTING THAT LIBEL HERE http://slashdot.org/comments.p... [slashdot.org]

?

ERRONEOUSLY saying I was creating a DNS replacment (which it's not, it shores up DNS redirect security issues & resolves FASTER locally in RAM vs. remote lookups) -> http://tech.slashdot.org/comme... [slashdot.org]

Saying VI can do all my APK Hosts File Engine can do (not) & running -> http://slashdot.org/comments.p... [slashdot.org] when VI can't?

* Please... lol!

APK

P.S.=> You have SERIOUS issues - get over your ''geek angst" already (you're not even much of a 'geek' based on your technical screwups above)... apk

Re:CTRL+S (3, Funny)

captjc (453680) | about 4 months ago | (#47075665)

...passes to Moses...SCORE!

Re:CTRL+S (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#47075783)

Jesus and Satan were constantly bickering over who could use the computer better. Finally, Saint Peter got tired of it and challenged them to have a day long compute-off to settle once and for all who could use the computer better.

The day of the contest came. Both Jesus and Satan spent all day writing documents and creating spreadsheets. Many words were processed, and many numbers were crunched.

Twenty three hours and fifty minutes into the competition, both computers crashed. Satan began cursing at all of the work that he lost, but Jesus just calmly restarted his computer. Jesus won the competition, because Jesus saves.

Thanks!, I'll be here all week. Don't forget to tip the waitress.

Bah, we already said goodbye to CTRL-S years ago.. (5, Funny)

Gavin Scott (15916) | about 4 months ago | (#47075147)

When it stopped meaning "Suspend output to terminal" along with it's partner CTRL-Q.

In-Band serial flow control ftw!

G.

Re:Bah, we already said goodbye to CTRL-S years ag (3, Insightful)

Dimwit (36756) | about 4 months ago | (#47075315)

That's honestly the first thing I thought of. "Saving a document" to me is "Esc-:w".

Re:Bah, we already said goodbye to CTRL-S years ag (3, Informative)

pe1chl (90186) | about 4 months ago | (#47075347)

Esc-ZZ

Re:Bah, we already said goodbye to CTRL-S years ag (1)

Chris Mattern (191822) | about 4 months ago | (#47075749)

Only if you're finished. If you're still working but want to save your progress, :w is what you want.

Re:Bah, we already said goodbye to CTRL-S years ag (1)

Dancindan84 (1056246) | about 4 months ago | (#47075405)

:w

Re:Bah, we already said goodbye to CTRL-S years ag (1)

Dancindan84 (1056246) | about 4 months ago | (#47075429)

Derr, nevermind. You were saying the same thing. The - threw me off.

Re:Bah, we already said goodbye to CTRL-S years ag (0)

nblender (741424) | about 4 months ago | (#47075565)

There are several issues here. I am offended that some operating systems have hijacked ascii characters to use for meta functionality... ie: ^C, ^V, ^S... ie: I want the same copy/paste key sequences in all of my apps, but I can't have that. I can't remap firefox to use Alt-C/Alt-V for copy/paste or Alt-T for 'new tab'... For those of us who live/work/survive in terminal windows, we want a consistant user interface... This consistancy is (for the most part ) on OS X.

But in terms of the article in question, yeah.. What I really want is more disconnect between my editing window and my compiler/debugger.

rubbish (2)

rewindustry (3401253) | about 4 months ago | (#47075601)

ctrl-S is still alive and well and suspending most things.

Re:rubbish (2)

NoNonAlphaCharsHere (2201864) | about 4 months ago | (#47075663)

I used to tell one of co-workers "X-OFF!" to get him to shut up.

Re:rubbish (1)

c0d3g33k (102699) | about 4 months ago | (#47075691)

*whoosh*. It was a joke.

Re:Bah, we already said goodbye to CTRL-S years ag (1)

rnturn (11092) | about 4 months ago | (#47075703)

Did this just happen?

Ctrl-S/Ctrl-Q still work in my terminal windows. I'm not sure how useful it is as my response time can be slow enough that it doesn't usually let me stop the text display in time when I see something I want to take a closer look at. (Setting up a whopping big scrollback memory helps with that, though.)

Happy Friday from The Golden Girls! (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#47075155)

Thank you for being a friend
Traveled down the road and back again
Your heart is true, you're a pal and a cosmonaut.

And if you threw a party
Invited everyone you knew
You would see the biggest gift would be from me
And the card attached would say, thank you for being a friend.

Why is this on Slashdot ? (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#47075169)

ZZZZZZZZZZZ zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz ...................

Why is this on Slashdot ?

Re: Why is this on Slashdot ? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#47075371)

Exactly.
I've also noticed that since I don't put birdseed in my bird feeder, less birds are in my yard.
I miss the days when it was full and there were lots of birds.

I'd rather not use (1)

gTsiros (205624) | about 4 months ago | (#47075171)

a text editor that is so error prone that *needs* to autosave constantly("continuously"). Or software in general, for that matter.

Re:I'd rather not use (1)

American AC in Paris (230456) | about 4 months ago | (#47075321)

a text editor that is so error prone that *needs* to autosave constantly("continuously"). Or software in general, for that matter.

You've got it backwards--it ain't an error-prone text editor, it's an error-prone human. Even conscientious, process-driven users make stupid mistakes and forget to save their work (especially when they're on a roll.) This protects us from ourselves, not the machines we're working on.

Now, you may be among that handful of people who never forgets to save--in which case, I congratulate you on being in one of the outlier cohorts that software engineers really shouldn't ever spend their time worrying about. :D

Re:I'd rather not use (1)

mmell (832646) | about 4 months ago | (#47075547)

You forgot the error-prone OS. QEdit never took a dump on me, but MS-DOS 2.x was known to crap out, especially once I started running TSR programs (carousel.exe and printman.exe come screaming to mind) - but I suppose that's what I get for trying to force MS-DOS to multitask.

Old habits die hard - I still find myself repeating the mantra "save early, save often".

mmell LIBEL classics (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#47075683)

Saying I use hosts to evade police while I surf little boy porn http://slashdot.org/comments.p... [slashdot.org]

Libeling me saying my WARE IS A VIRUS etc. too? Please -> http://slashdot.org/comments.p... [slashdot.org] (1 of 2)

Libeling me saying my WARE IS A VIRUS etc. too? Please -> http://slashdot.org/comments.p... [slashdot.org] (2 of 2)

THEN RECANTING THAT LIBEL HERE http://slashdot.org/comments.p... [slashdot.org]

?

ERRONEOUSLY saying I was creating a DNS replacment (which it's not, it shores up DNS redirect security issues & resolves FASTER locally in RAM vs. remote lookups) -> http://tech.slashdot.org/comme... [slashdot.org]

Saying VI can do all my APK Hosts File Engine can do (not) & running -> http://slashdot.org/comments.p... [slashdot.org] when VI can't?

* Please... lol!

APK

P.S.=> You have SERIOUS issues - get over your ''geek angst" already (you're not even much of a 'geek' based on your technical screwups above)... apk

Re:mmell LIBEL classics (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#47075797)

APK, you are retarded. Shut the fuck up, you idiot. Die in a fire.

Re:I'd rather not use (1)

ildon (413912) | about 4 months ago | (#47075341)

Perhaps you've heard of a thing called a power outage. I just had one last night. Or maybe you've had a cat step on your keyboard and somehow manage to close the window you were working in. There are enough acts of god and human error that still exist regardless of how flawless the program you're working in is to make autosave highly valuable. The 1000 times you don't need autosave are not nearly as critical as the 1 time you do.

Re:I'd rather not use (4, Funny)

0123456 (636235) | about 4 months ago | (#47075553)

Perhaps you've heard of a thing called a power outage.

That's where you reboot and the file is full of garbage because it crashed half-way through writing the new file to disk and the metadata was updated but not the contents, right?

Re:I'd rather not use (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#47075397)

I don't even have any software that does this. I remember when some DOS word processors added the option circa 1986, but I've never enabled it.

Re:I'd rather not use (1)

NixieBunny (859050) | about 4 months ago | (#47075531)

Back in my day, computers would fail for no explicable reason.

Or, more likely, your hand would brush against the RESET key that was prominently featured on the keyboard right below RETURN.

Re:I'd rather not use (1)

fahrbot-bot (874524) | about 4 months ago | (#47075775)

Back in my day, computers would fail for no explicable reason.

My favorite unexplained error message from back in the mid 1980s was from tcsh, "Assertion botch: This can't happen!"

IDE autocommit? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#47075223)

Which one does that?

Re:IDE autocommit? (5, Insightful)

Daniel Hoffmann (2902427) | about 4 months ago | (#47075589)

Why would anyone want to autocommit possibly broken code?

Re:IDE autocommit? (2)

mooingyak (720677) | about 4 months ago | (#47075725)

I think there might be an Eclipse option. We had a new guy once who had some IDE auto-committing. He had a ridiculous number of completely uninformative commits early on. Very quickly the top item on his task list became "Figure out how to disable auto-commit"

Saved, with conditions . . . (2, Informative)

cashman73 (855518) | about 4 months ago | (#47075231)

Your material will be saved to the cloud where the NSA computers can check it and make sure you're not doing anything illegal. But please just ignore the prying eyes, citizen, and get back to work for the Man. After all, he owns the NSA now.

6 comments (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#47075233)

"There are no comments"

Wtf Slashdot beta?

Is this Article from 1993? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#47075235)

It is Alt+F S!

Good! (5, Funny)

stewsters (1406737) | about 4 months ago | (#47075243)

Truly it is the year of the Linux Desktop. Long live :w

Correction (1)

MAXOMENOS (9802) | about 4 months ago | (#47075281)

Surely you mean C-x C-s.

Re:Correction (4, Funny)

just_another_sean (919159) | about 4 months ago | (#47075431)

Oh god, please don't tell me this is going to be the year of the Emacs Desktop?

If so I may just consider getting a job as a gardener....

Re:Correction (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#47075471)

I doubt it. He or she didn't say "year of the GNU/Linux Desktop"...

Re:Correction (1)

taikedz (2782065) | about 4 months ago | (#47075693)

No, they meant Ctrl-X , Y

One problem with auto saving (1)

Registered Coward v2 (447531) | about 4 months ago | (#47075261)

is how do revert to older versions? I use a program that saves every change so while a crash would not result in lost work I can't revert to an earlier version unless I save a copy first before editing. Fortunately I use another program that saves a copy every time I use Carl-s so I can roll back from its copies.

Re:One problem with auto saving (2)

MagicM (85041) | about 4 months ago | (#47075361)

Carl-s

It's only pronounced that way. When writing we still use "Ctrl".

Re:One problem with auto saving (1)

Registered Coward v2 (447531) | about 4 months ago | (#47075447)

Carl-s

It's only pronounced that way. When writing we still use "Ctrl".

Gotta luv speal cheakers...

Re:One problem with auto saving (1, Interesting)

Mr. Slippery (47854) | about 4 months ago | (#47075687)

Carl-s

It's only pronounced that way.

It is? When did this start? "Control" is too difficult to say?

Dafuq? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#47075263)

I'll keep my I-search, thank you very much.

Commits code changes automatically (5, Insightful)

vivaoporto (1064484) | about 4 months ago | (#47075271)

My IDE commits code changes automatically

TFA doesn't mention this and, if the summary writer meant "commit" as in version control commit, this would be a killer bug in the whole process.

Version control is not meant to be used as a backup, every commit should be deliberate, reviewed and well explained in the comments. Vide the post mortem of the heartbleed bug (or many other similar ones).

Re:Commits code changes automatically (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#47075753)

IDEs such as Eclipse have a local revision history that's (hopefully) separate from your main source control system. Though I didn't think Eclipse auto-saves your work. In fact, I hate it when tools auto-save. I open a lot of files and mess with their contents without wanting to save them. For example, if I want to temporary adjust document borders so I can cram a long document onto less paper. I don't want those changes saved.

Re:Commits code changes automatically (2)

Shados (741919) | about 4 months ago | (#47075789)

Auto-commit is probably overkill, but: distributed source control.

I commit to my local branch at every semi-reasonable checkpoint, and yeah, after a while my commit messages look like those from that XKCD about git. Every so often I'll push to a private remote branch as a backup.

Then when I squash my commits and push the atomic change to the main repo, yeah, that will be a deliberate, reviewed and well explained commit. But only then.

We're not all on SVN and SourceSafe anymore!

Re:Commits code changes automatically (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#47075815)

You know, a workflow that actually does a commit would probably work great in git.

- create topic branch
- IDE commits periodically
- when you're ready, squash everything into a single commit.

If you think about it, it's not that different from the (or at least my) usual git workflow anyway.

Back in *my* day... (1)

Just Brew It! (636086) | about 4 months ago | (#47075301)

...control-S (XOFF) was used to pause the scrolling on a "dumb" CRT terminal. I don't think I have ever used it to save a document.

Systems I care about (i.e. anything I use for "real work") are on UPSes. If the hardware or software is unstable enough that it crashes unexpectedly more often than once every couple of months (give or take), I fix/replace the hardware or start looking for alternative software to accomplish the same task.

Ctrl-S? Ain't nobody got time for that! (3, Informative)

grub (11606) | about 4 months ago | (#47075331)


I'm busy F4'ing.

You missed the biggest downside (4, Insightful)

DJ Jones (997846) | about 4 months ago | (#47075335)

What if I don't want to save my changes?

"You can use the 'undo' command they say..."

Yes but the undo command isn't persistent between applications, much less a power failure.

You haven't solved anything, you've merely shifted the problem.

Auto-save is NOT your friend (5, Insightful)

ChrisC1234 (953285) | about 4 months ago | (#47075337)

Sometimes, I don't want to save. I will open a document with the explicit purpose of making changes that I don't want saved. Even Gmail's autosave has burned me pretty badly. I spent an hour typing out a very long email. Toward the end of it, something happened, and the whole body of text was gone. I'm still not really sure if it was a keyboard shortcut I inadvertently triggered, browser bug, or what. But I just thought "no biggie... I'll just go back to the auto-saved version". So I open up the autosaved version, and the latest auto-save happened AFTER the email body was deleted. So much for autosave @#$!#$@!!!!

Re:Auto-save is NOT your friend (4, Insightful)

Just Brew It! (636086) | about 4 months ago | (#47075423)

Agreed. Definitely a case of "please do what I asked for, not what you think I wanted". A properly implemented auto-save feature does not overwrite the original document; it saves a secondary copy, to be used only if the system crashes and you need to recover your edits.

Re:Auto-save is NOT your friend (4, Insightful)

Frosty Piss (770223) | about 4 months ago | (#47075495)

A properly implemented auto-save feature does not overwrite the original document; it saves a secondary copy, to be used only if the system crashes and you need to recover your edits.

This is what MS Office does. Of course, no one here uses MS Office, so that's not much help...

Re:Auto-save is NOT your friend (1)

Twinbee (767046) | about 4 months ago | (#47075659)

With unlimited undo/redo (and saving of that), then perhaps you don't need the secondary copy. Doubt it's practical though for space/HD access reasons.

Re:Auto-save is NOT your friend (1)

phantomfive (622387) | about 4 months ago | (#47075463)

XCode auto-saves any changes you make (to the settings, the project layout, etc). Now I use git and make sure I've committed the whole project before making any changes because it's so easy to accidentally mess things up.

So instead of making things easier, we've added complexity to work around complexity.

Re:Auto-save is NOT your friend (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#47075583)

I'm not sure how auto-save made your life worse here: if you lost your e-mail body and there was no auto-save, you would have lost it anyway. Unless your complaint is that the auto-save feature created an expectation for you that your e-mail would be there and then disappointed you when it wasn't (?).

Re:Auto-save is NOT your friend (1)

ChrisC1234 (953285) | about 4 months ago | (#47075649)

Had auto-save not been there, I would have manually saved it several times. But autosave makes you think that you don't need to worry about manually saving.

Re:Auto-save is NOT your friend (2)

mmell (832646) | about 4 months ago | (#47075611)

Agreed. After one or two unpleasant experiences, I got used to the habit of 1) load file, 2) immediately save file with new name, and 3) work. I.e., I was manually doing bastard RCS/SCCS.

mmell LIBEL classics (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#47075705)

Saying I use hosts to evade police while I surf little boy porn http://slashdot.org/comments.p... [slashdot.org]

Libeling me saying my WARE IS A VIRUS etc. too? Please -> http://slashdot.org/comments.p... [slashdot.org] (1 of 2)

Libeling me saying my WARE IS A VIRUS etc. too? Please -> http://slashdot.org/comments.p... [slashdot.org] (2 of 2)

THEN RECANTING THAT LIBEL HERE http://slashdot.org/comments.p... [slashdot.org]

?

ERRONEOUSLY saying I was creating a DNS replacment (which it's not, it shores up DNS redirect security issues & resolves FASTER locally in RAM vs. remote lookups) -> http://tech.slashdot.org/comme... [slashdot.org]

Saying VI can do all my APK Hosts File Engine can do (not) & running -> http://slashdot.org/comments.p... [slashdot.org] when VI can't?

* Please... lol!

APK

P.S.=> You have SERIOUS issues - get over your ''geek angst" already (you're not even much of a 'geek' based on your technical screwups above)... apk

Re:Auto-save is NOT your friend (1)

nephilimsd (936642) | about 4 months ago | (#47075639)

The number of times that I open a document with the purpose of testing a change or providing information to someone in a what-if scenario that I really don't want saved is probably more than the number of times that I open a document with the purpose of actually changing anything. I work in a finance department, and a lot of our calculations are still done in Excel templates. If I don't have the option to close without saving, I am probably not using whatever office suite you are presenting me.

Drivel... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#47075339)

"but at the same time, we don't have that pause to take a moment and reflect on what we've written. I'm sure we've all had moments where our hands hover over a save/submit button before changing our minds and hammering the backspace key. Maybe now we'll have to think before we write.""

Stop looking for deepness where there is none. Hover over a save button? No... save, then make changes and save again. Maybe over a submit button, but what the hell does that have to do with Ctrl-S? You're combining two completely different processes... saving a local file that you can save again as many times as you like with an irreversible submission process to try and create some depth to a non-story.

Re:Drivel... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#47075513)

The problem is the clever IDE also auto-commits the updated file to version control. so saving is the same as submitting.

What C-s? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#47075353)

Oh geez. I thought the article was referring to the XON-XOFF protocol. I must be ancient :-(

Re:What C-s? (1)

Just Brew It! (636086) | about 4 months ago | (#47075435)

Yeah, that was my initial thought too. But I've already come to terms with the fact that I'm ancient, so it didn't really bother me! ;-)

I call bullshit... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#47075359)

just lost a doc yesterday because I forgot to save it... had opened it from an e-mail attachment just to glance...
came back to desk later... closed word and POOF all gone...

CTRL-S is not going anywhere...

Wow, déjà vu (4, Interesting)

hubie (108345) | about 4 months ago | (#47075363)

This sounded so familiar to me [slashdot.org] , but I can't believe it has been over eight years ago. I must be remembering a similar story posted much more recently.

A relic of spinning rust (2)

Schrockwell (867776) | about 4 months ago | (#47075389)

Back in the day, I/O was dreadfully slow. Think about 5 1/4" and 3 1/2" floppy disks and slow hard disks, and how long it could take to save a document. I can still hear the clunking and whirring in my head as the little activity LED blinks and the operating system grinds to a halt.

Now, with faster HDDs and even better SSDs, making "save" a separate, user-triggered operation doesn't make much sense. And with a jillion cores, you can easily offload the CPU work to do the saving to another thread so the UI isn't interrupted. Look at iOS - how many apps have a "save" button at all? It's expressly discouraged from the Human Interface Guidelines, and iOS users have been happily plugging along without it for years.

I think the real shocker is why applications still have a 3 1/2" floppy disk as the save icon. It's just an anachronism now.

Ha! No, it's not "safe" (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#47075395)

"Save your work!' — This was a rallying cry for an entire generation of workers and students. ... My documents are automatically saved (with versioning) every time I make a change."

That works great for students ... until they happen to pull their flash drive out of the USB socket at the moment it happens to be auto-saving, and their whole thesis document gets corrupted. Thankfully there are backups of anything important, right? Judging by the number of catastrophes I've directly observed in the computer labs around here, auto-save does nothing compared to thoughtful file naming (e.g., with the date in it), some understanding of where the files are going (local hard drive, external drive, or network drive) and a backup plan. Half the time students don't even know where the file is being saved, and simply "lose" it somewhere in the filesystem, or accidentally overwrite their new work with old work when copying files around.

What you've got is not a generation of students that don't have to worry about control-S anymore, but a generation of students who are too clueless about how computers and file saving works to realize how bad their habits are. This will foil any attempt at automatically dealing with the problem. There is no technical solution for a bit of education about how it works, because current systems are not quite at the point where file organization doesn't matter. We're not there yet. Autosave is a crutch that isn't particularly helpful.

Ctrl+S + Putty+VIM = Frozen Terminal (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#47075401)

The Ctrl+S habit is actually a really bad one to have when you grew up doing reports in Word and then go to a job which is all coding in VIM via Putty, where Ctrl+S just causes your terminal to freeze.

OMG technology & progress made something obsol (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#47075411)

Seriously... comparing a time when storage space was a limited resource and disc accesses would take quite a few seconds for just a few kbytes to today when write speeds are 30-300MB/s (even a few mb/s for wireless) and storage space is almost unlimited is worth an article?

The only part of this that is newsworthy is how 'autosave' is more needed because computers & software have become less reliable over the years.

Kids these days (4, Funny)

TubeSteak (669689) | about 4 months ago | (#47075413)

Excuses that no longer work:

My floppy disc isn't working
My computer blue screened before I saved
My e-mail was down
I don't know why your computer can't read that format

Every excuse I ever used to get a day's reprieve could not work now.

Re:Kids these days (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#47075445)

Opening a .doc in a hex editor and randomising large chunks of it to buy yourself an extra day, that was my tried and tested method. Could still work I assume.

Re:Kids these days (1)

i kan reed (749298) | about 4 months ago | (#47075623)

Excuses that do work:

I can't get into my account.
The internet is down.
What do you mean the .mp3 I renamed .doc isn't opening in word?

I hate this new paradigm (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#47075461)

It used to be that I could open a file and muck with it and only when I decided the changes were worthy would I "save" or "save as" the file. But now before making any changes I have to decide what the future of the file is -- will this be a heavily modified copy, or a revision, or a scratchpad? What if I mess up and ruin the file -- does the version control work, can I get back to my old copy? When exactly was the document in that state I cared about? How fine grained is this autosave/version-control mechanism? Is it per character typed or line drawn? Having basic save points in a game is fine because the game designer chooses when they should occur and, frankly, its a game so replaying some aspect of a level isn't the end of the world. Its a totally different situation when you gotta figure out exactly where in deeply technical code/spreadsheets etc you need to (or have been forced to) revert to.

In my opinion this move is a horrible thing. I hate it.

Best mistake I ever made (2)

mrhippo3 (2747859) | about 4 months ago | (#47075465)

Once upon a time in a far away land I was pounding away at my Apple ][. I forgot to save and lost an hour and a half of work. That was the best mistake I ever made. Since then I have always saved, made backup copies, sent the text to myself on email, written a CD/DVD, saved to a thumb drive, and so on. An hour and a half was a very cheap loss to have, if I was forever safe thereafter.

Autosave still has not cured me. I will still CTRL-S every few lines. Even with autosave on CAD I will still do other saves. Still, my paranoia does save me.

Not so long ago, I discovered that several years of engineering files had been vanished. We had paper copies but still that loss was annoying.Turns out that I had made a backup of that file set and it was found in my home cache of "work" disks. I slept better.

Why would anyone do this? (2)

jittles (1613415) | about 4 months ago | (#47075467)

No longer do we have to have constant interruptions to worry about whether our changes are saved

Why would you interrupt your flow of work to save a document? That doesn't make any sense whatsoever. What I got into the habit of doing was hitting Ctrl-S after each thought. The thought was then saved and I thinking about what to write next anyway. Autosave doesn't know when I actually want to commit my changes and it could happen in the middle of an edit (say cut and paste to move some text around). If I lost power at that time I would rather have the unedited version of the document than the one with my precious text cut out of it and then lost in the event of a power failure.

You insensitive clod! (4, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#47075487)

Apple users don't Control, they Command you insensitive clod!

Welcome to the 1980's... (5, Informative)

kylemonger (686302) | about 4 months ago | (#47075499)

... when GNU Emacs had auto-saving and backup versioning at any keystroke granularity you liked thirty years ago. Next we celebrate the boon of split screen editing.

Games: Autosave is the devil (2, Insightful)

Impish (669369) | about 4 months ago | (#47075503)

Games that autosave only on checkpoints is a hangover from old consoles that didn't have the memory to allows gamers to save when they wanted to. Why this horrible restriction continues to perpetuate to modern PC games is beyond me. It's a throwback and it's annoying.

I can hear some people saying "It forces suspense in the game! You don't know when the next safe place is!". If you want that kind of suspense, let the game auto save for you. Personally if supper is ready I don't want to have to tell my wife "Wait, I know there must be an auto save waypoint around here somewhere, hold on while I play for another 5 - 10 minutes looking for it!" I want to hit cntl-s, quit, and go have supper.

Is it so hard to put 'save when you want' in to a game?

end-of-rant

Re:Games: Autosave is the devil (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#47075777)

Most games have this kind of save system because it continues from console games and PC exclusive games (or good ports) are very rare these days.

Re:Games: Autosave is the devil (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#47075809)

If you want that kind of suspense, let the game auto save for you. Personally if supper is ready I don't want to have to tell my wife "Wait, I know there must be an auto save waypoint around here somewhere, hold on while I play for another 5 - 10 minutes looking for it!" I want to hit cntl-s, quit, and go have supper.

Or, you know, you could just hit Esc and pause it.

First noticed this in Google Docs (1)

bjdevil66 (583941) | about 4 months ago | (#47075533)

For public work docs we put together. I was trying to hit "Alt+F, S" to save everything for quite a while.

I personally don't like the change because not every piece of software behaves that way (yet), and that leads to confusion.

I also like having control over what is saved and when for a reason. Maybe I don't want some server having every thought I've ever had (and then deleted later because it was a bad idea, such as an angry email you never sent) stored somewhere in "Big Data". Imagine the psychological profile that someone could build about you with everything you ever typed anywhere in any Google product, Facebook, Twitter, etc...

With that said, I get why most people don't have such paranoid thoughts. It's all about convenience.

Inspiration! (2, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#47075537)

Many years ago, I lost some changes in a vi clone named "stevie". The real vi saved your changes automatically by the simple (and at the time necessary) method of using a file to store your edit buffer, but stevie used an in-memory edit buffer. After it losing enough changes from that, I decided to write my own vi clone, "elvis", which also used a file to store the edit buffer. This was very handy in the early days of Minix (predecessor to Linux) which had only a 64K address space per process -- it allowed you to edit text files larger than 64K, oooooh!

Elder Scrolls (1)

CanHasDIY (1672858) | about 4 months ago | (#47075585)

Obviously this guy isn't a fan of Bethesda games, if he thinks so highly of autosave.

Just wait until you lose an hour of progress because you didn't save before getting smoked by a high-level troll at the bottom of that dungeon.

That's the way I like it (3, Funny)

jovius (974690) | about 4 months ago | (#47075717)

Undo levels to zero, no saving. Live in the moment, on the edge. No turning back, it's all in.

Wait.. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#47075727)

That's a command we can use? I usually just hover the mouse at the top and click the big save button.

I guess this joke is now obsolete, then... (2)

jratcliffe (208809) | about 4 months ago | (#47075739)

Jesus and Buddha sit down for a typing contest. Both are given a lengthy paper document, and have to type it into their respective computers. The contest starts, and they're neck-and-neck the whole way. When they're both almost done, a lightning bolt comes down from the sky, and both computers crash. Who wins the contest? Jesus, of course. Jesus saves.

As Lame as Obama's Ctrl-Alt-Delete "Yoke" (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#47075743)

Get with the times old timer. But at least you are not as lame as Obama and his ctrl-alt-delete joke he tried to make. Yes, yes. A lame joke from a lame writer who is even more out-dated that you, but the way it works os, he who spoke it wrote it.

*Crash* (1)

pinkj (521155) | about 4 months ago | (#47075757)

I was writing a long winded post about how the days of 'ctrl-s'ing every 10 seconds are finally gone, but I lost it all after my computer crashed.

lol @ webforms (1)

larry bagina (561269) | about 4 months ago | (#47075799)

Many webforms will save drafts of whatever data I'm entering

But not slashdot.

Take your own advice (1)

Rob the Bold (788862) | about 4 months ago | (#47075803)

Maybe now we'll have to think before we write.

The very act of externalizing something is part of the writing process. The idea that one who might think it all out and then type/code/compose/whatever a perfectly formed document/program/concerto/whatever only really exists in the imaginary Mozart that lives in Peter Schaffer's mind.

Besides, I prefer to save my work at defined points. Just because the system can recreate what I was doing where I left off before that dead battery/power failure/segfault/system crash/emergency phone call doesn't necessarily mean I can.

Maybe now we'll have to think before we write (0)

The Grim Reefer (1162755) | about 4 months ago | (#47075813)

I sometimes wish there was a CTRL-S in real life. I often times speak before I think. My colleagues seem to appreciate my unfiltered honesty. At least that's what they tell me. My wife on the other hand, not so much sometimes.
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