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New Joystick Style Ergo Mouse

CmdrTaco posted about 13 years ago | from the who-else-has-a-sore-wrist dept.

Games 135

Mr_Perl writes "For those of us who love to use a mouse to play games, except for the wrist pain after too much of it, 3M has come up with a joystick-mouse type thing that is in my opinion very comfortable to use." I'd love to try one of these out. Not available yet tho. update my bad, it is out. Now I gotta find one.

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First BOOM (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | about 13 years ago | (#2285462)

First attack.. ;)

Hello moron! (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | about 13 years ago | (#2285684)

Why not take the opertunity to shut the fuck up?

Thanks,

GiganticPenisMan

]|overboard|[

Swear I've seen this before (2, Interesting)

Win-Developer (316016) | about 13 years ago | (#2285464)

I can't remember who made it, but I distinctly remember owning a mouse like this.

It was mostly likely one of those really cheaply made jobbies, but if I recall it was awful experience. I never got the pinpoint accuracy I could with a regular mouse.

Re:Swear I've seen this before (1)

pheber (107615) | about 13 years ago | (#2285474)


Yeah, these devices are old!
They used to be called "Anir Mouse" or something, used to have a lot of those in our office (in norway). Anyway, they suck, so i reverted back to my logitech mouse..

Re:Swear I've seen this before (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 13 years ago | (#2286364)

Yes, Anir Mouse sounds familiar.

I've seen them here in Finland too, several years ago. Seems like a rebadging job. I don't think I could get used to one, though..

Re:Swear I've seen this before (1)

X-Nc (34250) | about 13 years ago | (#2285556)

I bought one of these kind of meeces 3 or 4 years ago but I can't seem to find the info or URL where I got them. It was some company that's been selling these for a while. They actually work very well once you get used to using your arm instead of your wrist. And they are far less fatiguing<sp> than a "normal" mouse. I didn't use it much because it only had the two button mouse capability with no ability to "cord" so it was useless under X. They came out with a three button version but, as I said, I can't find the company inof or a URL to go buy one. If I could I would.

Re:Swear I've seen this before (3, Informative)

DeadMeat (TM) (233768) | about 13 years ago | (#2285613)

You're right, these have been out for years.

Suncom, a cheap peripherals company (best known for their oh-so-cheap joysticks), was selling joystick-style mice at my local department store back before when we got our first PC clone, which was in 1988. This was even years before mice were standard on computers. (That's right, Virginia, computers didn't always use mice!)

Even back then it looked uncomfortable.

Re:Swear I've seen this before (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | about 13 years ago | (#2285677)

Virginia can't talk right now, as she is busy sucking me off.

Thanks,

GiganticPenisMan

Re:Swear I've seen this before (2)

ender- (42944) | about 13 years ago | (#2286063)

These things do exist. They sell them at MicroCenter. [Here in San Jose anyway]


ender

The way this is going (1)

epsalon (518482) | about 13 years ago | (#2285475)

Next we'll have complete dashboards with dozens of controls for gamers, copied directly from fighter jet's cockpit...
Next thing we see cockpits will start copying their joysticks from the gaming industry...

Re:The way this is going (1)

Dimensio (311070) | about 13 years ago | (#2285525)

I was thinking that flight consoles would be rearranged to look like gaming PC setups, so that training pilots would be easier -- just pop in your favourite flight simulator program and get 'em trained in a week. Hey, remember Star Trek: Insurrection? In the future starship controls will me manufactured by Gravis, Microsoft and Logitech. :)

(Here's hoping that Sony can get in that market too -- I rather like their Dual Shock design)

Re:The way this is going (1)

Slarty (11126) | about 13 years ago | (#2286339)

Next thing we see cockpits will start copying their joysticks from the gaming industry...

I used to work at a large industrial/agricultural tractor company, and many (most?) of their new models are joystick controlled. I know for a fact that the designers *were* copying joystick designs from off-the-shelf gaming joysticks, so they could save lots of money in ergonomic design and all that. OK, it's not quite a cockpit, but still...

This is'nt really new (5, Informative)

Chainsaw (2302) | about 13 years ago | (#2285487)

Anir has been manufacturing these for a while.
http://www.animax.no/anirmousepro.html

Here's a URL where you can buy it in the USA. (2)

Ron Harwood (136613) | about 13 years ago | (#2286014)

You can get it at microwarehouse [warehouse.com] ...

So, yes, it is shipping now... contrary to popular belief...

old stuff (1)

Tharsis (7591) | about 13 years ago | (#2285489)

A few colleagues (sp?) of mine have this thing, some love it, some loath it, what you miss most is the third mouse button.

I've Seen These (1)

Hop-Frog (28712) | about 13 years ago | (#2285492)

Someone I worked with over the summer was using one of these, and, yes, I believe it was from 3M.

He really loved it. He had been having a lot of pain while mousing, and it was gone.

Nah... they're not that great (3, Insightful)

Bobb Sledd (307434) | about 13 years ago | (#2285494)

My roommate bought one because it was different, but it's not as easy to use as you'd figure. To get an idea, try writing with a pen like you did when you were in kindergarten (thumb on top).

Incidentally, shortly afterward, it became apparent that I tend to use my fingertips to control a regular mouse with greater precision. Perhaps you may find the same thing.

Good? They're Grrrreat!! (0, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | about 13 years ago | (#2286100)

What I really love about this mouse/joystick is that my high anal dexterity allows me to both browse for porn and use it as a dildo at the same time.

Yours,

Jon Katz

Optical (2, Interesting)

ksb (517539) | about 13 years ago | (#2285497)

It's a shame it isn't an optical mouse, I doubt I'm the only one who hates the 'jumping' effect of ball mice when they get a little dust in them.

I would have thought smooth running would have been essential for game players

Re:Optical (2)

Dwonis (52652) | about 13 years ago | (#2285614)

Yep, but one thing I'd like to see in optical mice is much higher sample rates. Often, when I try to "flick" my mouse around, the pointer does a little dance on the screen and ends up on the opposite side of where it should. Sigh.

Re:Optical (1)

eam (192101) | about 13 years ago | (#2286149)

Wow. I never noticed that until I read that & tried it.

I guess I'm a slow mouser.

Ergonomics (1)

Diabolical (2110) | about 13 years ago | (#2285500)

It looks like they listened to someone who studied ergonomics.. i would like one of those not just for games. In my daily work i am getting more and more stress on my wrist of my rightarm.

Mostly because of a non-ergonomical keyboard and of course to much working using a mouse..

So a mouse like this might help a little to relieve my wrist in daily operational work as well as my gaming evenings (strategy games are very heavy mouse controlled games..)

But i will have to wait and see.. some of the remedies for RSI were actually contributing to the situation or creating new situations alltogether.

Left Handed (0)

Steve Cox (207680) | about 13 years ago | (#2285504)

Looks like a pain for those of us who are left handed.

Steve.

Re:Left Handed (2, Informative)

stx23 (14942) | about 13 years ago | (#2285536)

I'm left handed, but I was forced into using a mouse with my right hand during my time at University.
I find it easier this way, and it has the added bonus of being able to write while using the mouse.

Re:Left Handed (2, Interesting)

ebbe11 (121118) | about 13 years ago | (#2285678)

I find it easier this way, and it has the added bonus of being able to write while using the mouse.

I'm right handed but when I started using a mouse, a co-worker advised me to use my left hand for the mouse.

His reasoning were that it is equally awkward whichever hand you use when you're a beginner. Moreover, you can not only write with your right hand but also use the arrow keys and the number-pad and the mouse simultaneously. And yes, I often find that I have the left hand on the mouse and the right hand on the arrow keys.

And yes, I can use a mouse with my right hand but it works better when I use my left.

Re:Left Handed (2)

TeknoHog (164938) | about 13 years ago | (#2285801)

Agreed! I switched to using the left hand only after years of computing, in fact when I switched to Linux. I find it immensely powerful to have the left hand on the mouse, and the right on the arrow keys, for instance when browsing the web. I think one of the reasons I switched was the awkward feeling of holding the left hand on the arrows (right side of keyb) and the right on the mouse.

Right now I'm using the nipple thing on my laptop, and really the only way of accessing the arrow keys at the same time is to use the left hand for the nipple.

Why not optical? (4, Insightful)

Chelloveck (14643) | about 13 years ago | (#2285508)

I keep wondering why anyone would introduce a new high-end mouse with a ball. The new breed of track-on-any-surface opticals are far superior to anything mechanical, especially if you work in a dirty (or dusty, or cat-infested) environment.

Re:Why not optical? (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | about 13 years ago | (#2285517)

i wonder why anyone wouldn't read the story before posting

Re:Why not optical? (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | about 13 years ago | (#2285574)

Did you? It uses a ball, dumbass.

Re:Why not optical? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 13 years ago | (#2285579)

Don't worry, if it proves to be any good, you can be sure Logitech will jump on the bandwagon and make their own version, complete with optical...

Re:Why not optical? (1)

MindStalker (22827) | about 13 years ago | (#2286239)

Well the fact that the laser usually burns out in about 2 years, and really isn't practical to replace. But I digress.

Re:Why not optical? (1)

swb (14022) | about 13 years ago | (#2286330)

Is it a laser or is an LED? I have an IntelliMouse optical that's at least a year old and it looks like an LED on the inside to me. If its an LED, shouldn't it last "forever" (forever in computer years, 5 years in people time).

Avialable for some time and is an ero product (3, Informative)

Jambu (237962) | about 13 years ago | (#2285510)

Huh? Not available yet? The article says available form 4th quarter 2000. My sister has been using one of these for several months, as she had to leave her cold fusion programming job 'caus of a severe autonomic nerve condition that developed from computer related RSI. she finds this 3M device to be good, in conjunction with Dragon Naturally Speaking to avoid using the keyboard.
Its not really that joystick like though since it is the whole base that moves.
The reason it is better for RSI is that the thumb nerves are supposed to be far less fragile

Nothing new... (0, Redundant)

jankol (320191) | about 13 years ago | (#2285521)

My co-worker had one for several months, he got it around a year ago. I'm not sure who made it, though.

Response time? (4, Interesting)

Lizard_King (149713) | about 13 years ago | (#2285524)

Using a mouse has several distinct advantages in gaming. One of which is a nasty little response time that can be accomplished by simply "flicking" your wrist. This becomes an invaluable skill in fast-paced, high action games (Q3). With the Renaissance Mouse, your wrist becomes immobile so the mouse movement will be dictated by moving your arm.

I understand that immobilization the wrist will combat wrist pain, but there will be significant gaming trade-offs... Most hard core gamers I know would rather deal with wrist pain than become considerably slower at their favorite games.

Re:Response time? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 13 years ago | (#2285846)

Certainly, but some of us never get the wrist pain. 16 hours of non-stop counter-strike didn't phase me. Now a PS2 controller....

Availabity of this product (2, Informative)

Kong the Medium (232629) | about 13 years ago | (#2285529)

Why isn't it available yet, CmdrTaco? Don't you read your own linked pages ? there it says:

Compatible with PC's, Macintosh, and iMac computers with USB ports. PC's- operate using WIN 95, 98 and NT4.0. Win 2000 available 4th quarter 2000. Macintosh/iMac/iBook-operate using Apple O/S 8.1 or higher with USB upgrades. Plug and play only, no software.

So it should be available for more than 9 months. Also look for the Where to buy button at the bottom of the page.

Available in Canada... (2, Informative)

Pyrosz (469177) | about 13 years ago | (#2285539)

from Misco (http://www.misco.ca) for $94.95 and is available in 2 sizes.

- No I dont work there, I just have a catalog in front of me. :)

Clumsy, I say (0)

CMBurns (38993) | about 13 years ago | (#2285547)

I surely won't buy one of those, looks rather big an what's that nonsense with "moving the whole base"? I'd prefer a more joystick-like handling, push up, cursor moves up, without moving the base.

C. M. Burns

Obviously... (4, Insightful)

sigsegv (90) | about 13 years ago | (#2285555)

...only right-handed people get wrist problems or want nice mice. This has been an annoyance to me for quite a while. While I can use the mouse on the right side, it feels more comforatble for me to use it on the left. I cannot find even one nice, three button wheel mouse designed specifically for lefties and yet I find scads of nice ones for righties. I am so tired of this (admittedly minor) discrimination and it's not even just WRT mice. I see it with other products too, but mice seem to hit closest to home.

Re:Obviously... (3, Informative)

jfunk (33224) | about 13 years ago | (#2285608)

My Logitech Mouseman Optical is very nice and light. I find it very comfortable to use and it is symmetrical, so you'd likely have the same experience as me.

Where there's no ball or mechanical parts, the weight is very low, while not feeling 'cheap.' I also like the fact that I can use it on just about any surface, including the cushions on my couch or my pant leg. Not only are mouse pads not required, they are a hinderance as well.

Re:Obviously... (1)

Atomizer (25193) | about 13 years ago | (#2285765)

I also have the same problem, I can use right handed mice, but prefer left. I like the MS optical mouse best so far, it's not shaped to be right handed. I also like the Intellimouse, even though it is right handed. For some reason it feels just fine either way. (Ever since I got the MS optiical USB, I just left my Intellimouse plugged in also. It's kinda cool having 2 mice, you can zoom around *very* fast with 2 hands, and now right handed people can use my computer easily too.)

But, I think symmetrical mice is the best lefties can expect.

One funny thing, I can't stand for the buttons to be reversed. I still like right handed style on the left side.

Re:Obviously... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 13 years ago | (#2285895)


But, I think symmetrical mice is the best lefties can expect.

One funny thing, I can't stand for the buttons to be reversed. I still like right handed style on the left side.


True dat. I used to use a mouse with my left hand because my right hand was better at typing. I have since learned to do most work by keyboard, so I moved back to mousing with my right hand.

Also, gaming is very difficult for me using the mouse in the left hand. It would require a very unusual keyboard mapping, including putting the weapons out of their usual 1-9 sequence.

Microsoft Intellimouse Optical (1)

usermilk (149572) | about 13 years ago | (#2285771)

I use one of these on my home computer, it is ambidexturous (sp?) and I love it. It isn't too expensive either.

Microsoft Intellimouse Optical [microsoft.com]

Re:Obviously... (1)

e4 (102617) | about 13 years ago | (#2285783)

While we're on the subject...

Does anybody else get frustrated with the "unbalanced" nature of most keyboard/mouse configurations? Look down at your desktop or keyboard tray. Your left hand gets half the alphabet and one or two useful keys (Tab, Esc.) Your right hand gets the other half of the alphabet, plus all the other "power" keys: Enter, Backspace, cursors, Insert, Delete, Home, End, Page Up, Page Down and the numeric keypad, not to mention the mouse. In fact, your right pinky alone seems to carry a pretty big load.

Most keyboards these days are lightweight and have long cords, ostensibly so you can set it on your lap and type. But try it. You've either got to type off-center, or hang that number pad off the side, which makes the keyboard want to fall off the edge your lap.

This joystick-mouse may or may not be an ergonomic improvement, but I think we've still got a lot of room for improvement. Heck, an old fashioned typewriter-style keyboard would be an improvement in a lot of ways...

I know it's a right-handed world, but putting so much burden on the dominant hand is just asking for problems in the long run.

Re:Obviously... (1)

am 2k (217885) | about 13 years ago | (#2285790)

I cannot find even one nice, three button wheel mouse designed specifically for lefties

Kensington [kensington.com] has some great mice that work for both lefties and righties.

Why move your arm at all? (5, Insightful)

BMazurek (137285) | about 13 years ago | (#2285558)

Everyone needs to make a conscious effort to finding a mouse and mouse usage technique that minimizes the effort and stress on their body.

How I avoid pain when using mice:

Find a mouse that you can move with your fingers alone.

I use the Logitech Mouseman 3-button mouse at work and at home. I grip the mouse body between my thumb and my last two fingers. Usually, my pinky is actually touching the mousepad, and my wrist is resting on the desk. As a result, the majority of my hand and arm never move.

I can move the mouse from the bottom of the screen to the top of the screen by simply ensuring my pinky is anchored on the mousepand and flexing my thumb. And I'm usually off a straight vertical from where I started (judging by window borders) by fewer than 10 pixels.

Finally, turn mouse acceleration/speed way up. Smaller movements yield the cross-screen movement I need.

Finding a mouse that requires fingers only and finding the techniques to use with that shape of mouse are the keys in my mind.

I haven't used it, but I suspect I'd really dislike this joystick mouse....way to much muscle required.

My fingers are agile, I'll let them do the walking.

Re:Why move your arm at all? (2)

Rogerborg (306625) | about 13 years ago | (#2285697)

  • Find a mouse that you can move with your fingers alone

Or just use a trackball and move one finger. I use one habitually (ok, ok, it's an M$ Intelliball), and absolutely love it. It's even possible to use it efficiently in FPS frag fests.

I may even have to upgrade an an optical trackball [microsoft.com] , just for the geek cachet.

Re:Why move your arm at all? (1)

jayhawk88 (160512) | about 13 years ago | (#2286321)

Word of warning: I have that MS Optical trackball, and it really puts a strain on my right hand when FPS gaming. Maybe my hands just to small for it, but I find myself really stretching my fingers for some reason.

Re:Why move your arm at all? (2)

Unknown Poltroon (31628) | about 13 years ago | (#2285701)

Except that the finger movements stress the wrist tendons also.

Re:Why move your arm at all? (2)

marcop (205587) | about 13 years ago | (#2285950)

I only need to utilize my fingers to move an MS Intellimouse Explorer Pro if I utilize a mouse pad with built in wrist support. No arm movement at all.

However, I can't use this setup while playing CounterStrike. Response is too slow.

This isn't very new technology... (1)

OverDrive33 (468610) | about 13 years ago | (#2285593)

I remember exploring new mice when they first came out. I have handheld rollarball, 2 handed rollarball, the first touch panel mice for your PC (the ones that are on some laptops now).
I had 2 joystick mice, one was the regular joystick size, the other was handheld joystick, one that you operated with your thumb.

All this on my 486DX66.... :oD

Not to me (2)

Shotgun (30919) | about 13 years ago | (#2285599)

This doesn't look comfortable at all. Movement would seem to require moving your whole arm. I haven't used one, but it looks like it would be really clunky to use.

hard to use (1)

RussRoss (74155) | about 13 years ago | (#2285610)

I almost bought a similar mouse a year ago (I forget who made it) but they aren't actually that nice to use. The design makes you use your whole arm to move instead of your wrist, and you lose the fine level of control that your wrist gives you. The result is that motion is pretty clumsy and inaccurate with this kind of design.

- Russ

Link to Vendor (1)

leibnizme (264472) | about 13 years ago | (#2285611)

As other people have said, this product has been available for quite a while. Here's one link (first four entries are the mouse from the article):

http://www.cdw.com/shop/search/results.asp?grp=MOU [cdw.com]

This has been around since 1999! (2, Informative)

Hates (168348) | about 13 years ago | (#2285618)


We've had this availble in the UK since around the end of 1999! A couple of people where I work have had it and we also certainly didn't get it from 3M!

Although it's a little weird at first and you look at it and can't imagine how it could be comfortable. It is acutally quite nice to use. But unlike a mouse which you can use standing, this is pretty useless if you doing anything but sitting.

Re:This has been around since 1999! (0)

JimStoner (93831) | about 13 years ago | (#2285693)

They were available in Soho long before 1999.


(The only reason I include this poor attempt at humour is that I rather like the new light it shines on the rest of the post).

Who cares? (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | about 13 years ago | (#2285630)

All I want to know is when we're going to bomb the towelheads.

Re:Who cares? (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | about 13 years ago | (#2285729)

Doesn't your bomb dropping interface use point and click?

RenMouse (3, Funny)

wowbagger (69688) | about 13 years ago | (#2285632)

The mouse mentioned in the article is called "the RenMouse".

Does anybody else feel the need to protect his new mouse with a rubber walrus protector?

Of course, when it stops working you can always shout "YOU BLOATED SACK OF PROTOPLASM!" at it.

I also suppose they will be bringing out the StimpyPedals as an accessory.

Anir Mouse (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 13 years ago | (#2285636)

I've had a couple of these for over two years now; I like them ok. The top rocker switch is flimsy and tends to break. They were nice enought to send me a replacement, which also broke. I fixed both of them with some scrap plastic and epoxy (and a hacksaw!), and they've been fine since. I think they are better than regular mice, but my thumb still gets a little sore sometimes with heavy use. I'd like to remap the third button (on the side of the joystick part) to be the left click, but that doesn't seem to be possible with the supplied drivers. Also, my girlfriend hates it and can't get used to it.

Got one. (2)

Unknown Poltroon (31628) | about 13 years ago | (#2285652)

Coworkers tried it out, theyre ordering them now. ALL wrist sorness and tiredness went away. I love it. Its awkward for the first day or two till you get the hang of it, but its perfect after that.

not available yet? (1)

gray code (323372) | about 13 years ago | (#2285657)

i know people have been saying they've seen these from other manufacturers, but i have seen this very model from 3M before. They had it at Software Etc. (or Babages, i forget which, they're owned by the same company) in the Springfield Mall in Springfield, VA. This was back in April/May.

erm.. (3, Funny)

shiva600 (323459) | about 13 years ago | (#2285669)

..looking at the pics, reading text phrases like "Available in two sizes - small/medium or large - for optimal ergonomic fit" and the "Vertical Grips"-bla etc., i thought you link to some kind of pr0n-Shop

;)

Re:erm.. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 13 years ago | (#2285731)

If this had force-feedback, it would be possible to get kinky with this.

Re:erm.. (1)

wwwillem (253720) | about 13 years ago | (#2285928)

Had the same thoughts: why only available in two colors, I miss pink :-). And I suddenly realized where one of the 3M's is coming from, ehhh the last is for "Mouse".... But probably good for late-night surfing ;-).

Not this model. (2)

scott1853 (194884) | about 13 years ago | (#2285690)

Looks more comfortable than a mouse but I think I'd prefer trigger buttons instead of a thumb control. It's just too awkward. Even in games, nobody maps the thumb buttons to the most actively used action control. I'd suggest that going vertically down the front of the joystick would be: trigger - scroll wheel - trigger. One control for each finger.

Years old (3, Informative)

Shanep (68243) | about 13 years ago | (#2285699)

I'm sure 3M was making a mouse exactly like this one that was on the .au market years ago.

Try moving your mouse around by resting your semi closed hand on it. Notice how much more effort that is required and what an uncomfortable method this would be. I don't move my mouse with my arm, I flick it around the entire screen, and have done so for more than 10 years starting with the original MS mouse (the pregnant ergo MS mouse is horrible for this though, the bump gets in the way), with three fingers moving with my wrist stationary on the mouse pad.

This 3M joy-mouse is not even optical! I rather love my Logitech Optical Mouseman Wheel, I don't even wish it were a wireless one, as I have the mouse cable, cable-tied with enough slack in a loop, to my keyboard cable where it enters the keyboard case, this way, it never gets caught or drags on anything (on a keyboard/mouse slide drawer). It may as well be wireless, since the days of feeling the cable rub and catch on things are gone.

I only wish it had a much higher sampling rate, so as to avoid what seems to be phasing effects that cause the opposite movement of what is done, when moved quickly and suddenly. It anoys me in Starcraft games sometimes!

Re:Years old (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 13 years ago | (#2286146)

I have that phasing problem also, but it only seems to affect me in direct 3d, in openGL games my mouse is quite predictable.

Accuracy? (1)

yeoua (86835) | about 13 years ago | (#2285704)

Well, from the looks of it, it doesn't look very accurate.

Personally, when i used a joystick, i hold it very very low to the base, so my wrist rests on the table (such as in arcade games, and such). This allows for smaller movements, though restricts larger movements, but since its a joy stick, it doesn't have larger movements.

This stick, seems like you are pushing the mouse around with this stick... and with the button on top, it looks like your riding higher, losing the accuracy of riding lower on a normal mouse.

It also seems that you might need to use the whole arm or part of it to move, rather than just small movements from the wrist up.

Personally i use my Logitech Mouseman+ Wheel Ball Mouse, and i have no problems with my wrist, as i try to keep the entire arm (up to the elbows) as straight as i can.

I've used one! (4, Informative)

Sulka (4250) | about 13 years ago | (#2285705)

And didn't like it at all! The problem is the weight of the hand rests on top of the mouse. In order to move it even on a good mousepad, you need to apply a lot of force. This makes precision clicking much harder to do than with the usual wrist-action mouse. Several other people at the same company tried it too and didn't like it.

And that's so old tech too, it was available last year. :P

The best mouse wristwise that I've found is the tiny small model from Logitech.

Best mouse (1)

steveo777 (183629) | about 13 years ago | (#2285709)

The best mouse I've ever used is by Logitech. It's their wheelman cordless that comes with their cordless ergo keyboard. It fits the hand perfectly. Yeah, you have to move your wrist around, but I've never experianced pain with it.

Worst mouse ever? Microsoft's intellimouse. I'd rather use a Mac mouse (okay, maybe not from the imacs).

not that new (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 13 years ago | (#2285711)

They've had these for quite a while... not that new i don't think... but i guess they'd be fun to try at least...

This is not news at all. (1)

EGNi (197216) | about 13 years ago | (#2285724)

I tried a similar mouse at least 2 years ago, but didn't like it.

They are out (2, Interesting)

TraccerWW (521113) | about 13 years ago | (#2285727)

I've used on of those made by 3M. a few users at our site are using them as we speak. As I couldnt stand it and have to bring my own mouse with me everytime I go to work on one of those system. I'm not sure how many ppl will like it.. Very hard to get used it.. and took some of our users a very long time. but one you go there.. you'll never beable to go back.. kinda like Mico$oft if you ask me.

support (1)

sewagemaster (466124) | about 13 years ago | (#2285730)


PC's- operate using WIN 95, 98 and NT4.0. Win 2000 available 4th quarter 2000.

2000?

no linux?

well people eventually get things working under linux anyway... (just add 2 more quarters...)

Not gonna work for gaming though (2, Interesting)

Leiffi (457582) | about 13 years ago | (#2285733)

Can't see how that's gonna work for gaming, moving your whole arm is much less accurate and slower than just twitching your wrist and fingers alittle, of course I'm talking about Q3 and CS, where speed and accuracy is everything... well I actually wouldn't recomend that thing for any games I can think of atm, if they make a vibrating version you can allways give it to your gf when you go away for the weekend though :P

What's all the fuss about? Turkeys? They're just fat bastard chickens!

trackball (1)

gurulegend (515697) | about 13 years ago | (#2285738)

get a trackball if you are worried about RSI

Not new and not great (1)

slasho81 (455509) | about 13 years ago | (#2285755)

These mice are sold over here for years now. They are quite different and not really comfortable to use as it might seems. I think the best way to describe the discomfort is: It's like trying to play a flight simulator with a mouse.

They rock (for me anyway) (1)

jwm (7499) | about 13 years ago | (#2285760)

I got one when I was having problems with wrist pain at work in '99, and it worked a treat. My one was branded as an 'Anir'; I gather 3M are marketing them now, hence the appearence of being 'new'.

While a lot of so called RSI symptoms are typically stress related (and I've experienced plenty of that) I was finding that moving my wrist left and right on an ordinary mouse eventually became fatiguing and painful. I never do that with this mouse, and I use my thumb for left and right clicking, which is also good. So good in fact, that when I started using a regular mouse on my home machine, the pain came back, so I got one for home, too.

The good stuff:

- It's fairly easy to get use to. I have no patience, even for MS natural keyboards, but I was into this mouse in a few hours. Your bandwidth may vary...

- They come in left and right versions in a few different sizes.

- All three buttons work in X :-). I use 'MouseMan' and Emulate3Buttons.

Cavaets:

- No roller button thingy. Never used one anyway, but they're pretty cool and I'd like one.

- No wireless optical. I can dream, can't I? :-)

- They're not too good to use if you're standing. I use a regular mouse when I'm noodling around with playlists at parties.

- They're not too good for gaming, but only because the mounting that holds the left/right mouse buttons can break under abuse. In my case this was a particularly, uh, 'exciting' moment playing Theif. I fixed it with 24hour araldite and a bit of metal tube from a hobby store, but it's never been quite the same since. Being 'ergonomic' it cost me 5 times as much as a regular one, so I'm reluctant to throw it out and get a new one just yet :-)

Overall, it's definitely the least worst piece of ergonomic equipment I've bought.

what's this? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 13 years ago | (#2285762)

*puts on pr0n goggles*.. eww! that looks gross! where'dja get that, from smutsticks dot com or what? yeah, this isn't the first time someone comes up with an exciting new toy and names it innocently like "shampoo bottle" or "electric massager". oh, it's ergonomical allright.. or should I say organomical?

Review (3, Informative)

izzlazz (1166) | about 13 years ago | (#2285778)

HardwareZone did a review [hardwarezone.com] of this a couple of days ago. They weren't too happy about it.

Too slow for most gaming (2, Interesting)

gregor_b_dramkin (137110) | about 13 years ago | (#2285782)

Their study states "There was, however, a slight difference in movement times with the new design about 16 hundredths of a second slower. "

160 ms! Slight?

I just tested my stimulus-response time (visual cue until key press). In ten trials, my average reaction time was 261 ms. That 160 ms represents a very dramatic slowdown.

I doubt my r/t is very special. I imagine a die-hard gamer would be faster than me, either through training or innate ability.

If this mouse-stick really makes the user 160ms slower, it will be way too slow for many types of games, regardless of any ergonomic benefits it may have.

pointing devices (1)

mister sticky (301125) | about 13 years ago | (#2285785)

There's litterally hundreds of pointing-type devices out there, many to reduce repetitive stress injuries.

However, what I think would be REALLY nice is not to use your hands for pointing at all, but what you're already pointing at your target with: your eyes.

I've seen on T.V. already examples of how one's eye movements can be tracked on a screen (usually done for marketing research in comercials, to track what a viewer responds to). Now, if you could incorporate this into a monitor somehow, instead of dragging the pointer across the screen using your hand, simply look where you want, then use some other method, say speech, to control clicking.

This would be really nice, especially in say, games. ahh the headshots... :)

IAN

Gravis MouseStick (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 13 years ago | (#2285793)

I believe that what many of us may be remebering is teh gravis mousestick for the Macintosh. If not, how is this different, other than the obvious PC support?

Bah (3, Interesting)

JediTrainer (314273) | about 13 years ago | (#2285829)

Why buy this when there's a hacking solution to the problem? I thought of this years ago.

Case in point: I was suffering from a case of RSI some years ago (before I figured out how the height of my chair and mousepad affected my wrists). My wrists were killing me every time I reached for the mouse.

The solution? A 50-line program written in C that (in Windows, sorry - my OS of choice at the time) polled my joystick, and translated its commands to the mouse pointer. Button 1 became 'click'. Button 2 became the left mouse button, and I linked Button 3 to 'double click'. Took me about an hour to whip up the program, and then I used it for about a month before my injury subsided and I was able to buy a better chair and adjust my desk height properly. It worked well, and it didn't cost me anything other than a smidge of time.

It made everything feel like a video game, though, so that was a bit weird. I've probably still got the program in my archives, but I'm at work and the file's at home somewhere.

My shoulder hurts! (1)

simetra (155655) | about 13 years ago | (#2285830)

My right shoulder hurts from mouse use. Does anyone know of a good way to cure this?
Thanks.

Re:My shoulder hurts! (1)

Eccles (932) | about 13 years ago | (#2285916)

My right shoulder hurts from mouse use. Does anyone know of a good way to cure this?

Use the mouse with your left hand?

Seriously, when might right arm was in a sling, I switched the mouse to the left side and got pretty comfortable with it in short order. Add a USB mouse and you can have two mice, and switch between them.

Re:My shoulder hurts! (2, Insightful)

alienmole (15522) | about 13 years ago | (#2286053)

From my own experience, I found I had shoulder trouble when I was in a really bad ergonomic situation (not directly under my control) and just about everything was wrong. If your forearm is pointing outward when using your mouse, that's bad. If your forearm is tilted upward, that's also bad. Inward and downward (or at least more or less level) is better, I think, although consult an ergonomic guide for expert advice. An armrest that you can actually use, i.e. that's the right height and fit, should also help, since I think part of the problem is simply supporting the weight of your arm.

wrist pains from the MOUSE??? (0)

theDEFT (254259) | about 13 years ago | (#2285838)

I think we all know what that wrist pain is realllllllllly from

Used this with WIN 3.1 (2)

doublem (118724) | about 13 years ago | (#2285857)

Anyone else remember the Windows 3.1 software that let you use a joystick as a mouse?

How is this different?

not new, but usefull anyways (1)

SlashDread (38969) | about 13 years ago | (#2285870)

I have seen these before made by logitech at an assurence firm. People there knew about RSI claims ;-)

It is in essence a frozen in one position joystick, with a regular mouseball below.

It was used by an employee to relieve stress from the wrist joint as it required movement of the _arm_ joints (elbow and/or shoulder) to move the whole thing.

He claimed it did not slow him down, or was less precise then regular mouses, although I would not want to play Counterstrike with it. I do believe his claims for less wrist pain.

fwiw

Reg /Dread

pain! (1)

tplayford (308405) | about 13 years ago | (#2285904)

Personally I don't get any wrist pain from using a mouse, and I have the pointlessly heavy Intellimouse explorer!

I would have thought that keeping your hand in the air would cause more overall arm pain?

Old Mouse (1)

Putz19 (202601) | about 13 years ago | (#2285927)

I worked with CAD users and when I upgraded there machines many had this mouse and did not want the SUN mouse that came with the new machines.. Not sure who made them though

Whatever works, depends on user. (1)

A_Non_Moose (413034) | about 13 years ago | (#2285940)

I recall a lab one time that had a computer or two that had handicapped access (Colo. State Univ) computers.

For people with fine motor skill impairments (various reasons, MS being one of them...multiple sclerosis, not microsoft) there was a similar setup to what was described above. A thrustmaster joystick was setup (they have the best scripting s/w joystick wise because it "emulates keyboard inputs".
To whatever mouse/key clicks were used most.

you have to realize this is best that a TM joystick was used because you can control the "dead zone" and the movement requires some force (compared to average sticks..sidewinder et al).

A buddy of mine's wife bought him one (flight-sim-aholic dude) and he commented that "it was a really 'stiff stick'...but what do you expect from a company called "Thrust Master"?".

Heh, still cracks me up.

Moose

Yeah, right! (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 13 years ago | (#2286193)

Comfortable for only *right-handed* people!!!!

Gravis? (1)

pcardoso (132954) | about 13 years ago | (#2286211)

I remember that Gravis [gravis.com] had a joystick mouse a bit like this a few years ago.

Speaking of gravis, I still have my original gamepad sitting next to my box. Don't use it much now, but it's cool to have a gamepad for a pc developed when the best had to play was cga/ega games. Still, Commander Keen was cool... I'll try to check those old floppies and play it again.

Been around for ages! (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 13 years ago | (#2286231)

These have been around for ages, check out:

http://www.backcare.co.uk/browse/ErgOffDeskProd/Mi ce [backcare.co.uk]

new design (2, Interesting)

g-string (83163) | about 13 years ago | (#2286301)

I have tried it, its just a new flavor in the same old tired mouse design.
I have a few different mice, If I use one for a long time I start getting sick of it. Maybe the shape isn't quite right? but its this way with all my mice plain and ergo!

No 2 people's hands are the same right? Your hand is always moving, when you lock it into a certain position it will always feel uncomfortable after a while.
I am wondering, is there an adjustable mouse out there. One that you can move and tweek to your liking. I think this would be a really interesting device.

2 cents are better than no sense.

better mouse that is available... (2)

burris (122191) | about 13 years ago | (#2286366)

I've been using the ProPoint [nationwideav.com] mouse and it requires zero wrist movement to operate. You can hold it in any position that is comfortable and it works just as well with either hand. The only problem is that it's ps/2 so you need an adapter to get it to work on a computer that lacks vestigial ports.


Combine with a pair of one-handed keyboards like the BAT [infogrip.com] and you are well on your way to increased productivity with vastly lower stress on your wrists and arms.


Burris

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