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More News And Links On Yesterday's Terrorist Attack

timothy posted about 13 years ago | from the count-blessings dept.

News 1529

Everyone out there who set up content mirrors helped the spread of information survive as well as it did. After the tremendous crush yesterday, conventional news sources seem to have largely recovered. However, people are still cushioning the network burden with their own mirrors and original reporting. We'll be putting up occasional updates as necessary, but for now hit that link below and you can read a ton of stories on all aspects of the story.

Ian Peon writes: "SF Gate has a short article on how the Internet "proved its mettle as a communications facilitator in a time of crisis." Kudos to all those who kept things running!"

An anonymous reader writes: "The who, what, and how are detailed in this Boston Herald story. The weapons were smuggled in the razor cases. And in order to get to the cockpit, they terrorized the stewardesses, killing a few in order to lure the pilot out. Once the pilot was out, they took control of the plane. They have identified a car driven by 5 arabs had flying instruction in arabic. The men have been traced back to different arab countries."

This WorldTribune.com story claims that Israeli intelligence reports favor the idea that the attacks may have had the backing of Saddam Hussein's Bagdhad government. According to a submission from UberOogie ,Osama bin Ladin denies involvement in the attacks. The claims, speculation and disclaimers will no doubt continue.

Connord D writes: "View the Survivor's Register Please, PLEASE go to the survivor registers, register that your looking for your family, tell your friends, pass the word around and identify those that have survived and those that are missing. Help worried families either confirm the fates of their loved ones so that they can mourn, or help them find those people that are missing." And Brian Mears, LAN Systems Operations Manager for Computer Sciences Corporation, writes: "I have created a forum on my website to allow families and friends of survivors to post messages and communicate with each other concerning this most tragic period." Here's the link: http://www.ntadmin.net/forum/.

It would be a godsend if the various survivor registries would pool their data, or if someone sets up a google-like search engine to reach all of them at once.

oo7 writes: "CNN has a stream of the first plane crash. If you'd like to download it you can from the videos section of this site; it has news updated as fast as I can and streams as fast as I can capture. Please forward any unknown news and links that you may have."

pKa writes: "The last image from WTCs 77th floor webcam is available on a few sites around the net. The original WCTA.org cam-site is dead, but available in Googles cache, where you can see the dark screen (camera already dead, most likely) at 09:52:52, 09/11/01 - just before the buildings crashed. Article (in norwegian) with screenshots available here" The stream of concern that yesterday's events will lead to an illiberal attitude toward privacy is growing into a torrent: vena writes: "CNN reported on television broadcast earlier today that the NSA was now going through volumes of recorded cellular calls for calls made by passengers on the planes. Clear admission."

GothChip writes: "Ananova are reporting that just hours after the terrorist attack on New York, the FBI started approaching ISPs asking for help in installing Carnivore."

mkelley writes: "This is only the beginning folks...looks like the internet is going to be blamed for this...Wired has a story that is sure to cause panic. This is going to be the goverment's way to push wiretapping into your email and web surfing. In this time of crisis, people in high places are going to use this to get their agenda through. "Blame the Internet" is going to be the rallying cry for everything ..." If you're interested in the details of the planes the terrorists chose, a Semi-Anonymous Coward writes: "American Airlines flight 77 confirmed down, crashed into the Pentagon, Washington DC. Flight 77 (Dulles to Los Angeles) is scheduled as a Boeing 757-200:

Boeing 757-200 data and history:

American Airlines Boeing 757-200 photos:

United Airlines flight 175 confirmed down, crashed into World Trade Center New York. Flight 175 (Boston to Los Angeles) is scheduled as a Boeing 767-200: United Airlines flight 93 confirmed down near Pittsburgh in Pennsylvania. Flight 93 (Newark to San Francisco) is scheduled as a Boeing 757-200:

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WallStreetItalia webcam (5, Informative)

Russ Nelson (33911) | about 13 years ago | (#2286333)

I have some pictures [russnelson.com] I grabbed from the WallStreetItalia.com webcam.
-russ

Re:WallStreetItalia webcam (3, Redundant)

Russ Nelson (33911) | about 13 years ago | (#2286420)

Congratulations! Y'all have managed to generate more traffic to my server than Code Red! I don't know whether to laugh or cry.
-russ

Lack Of Media Content On Real News Sites (5, Informative)

ekrout (139379) | about 13 years ago | (#2286475)

So, I have 142 average to high-res images on a page I threw together, as well as several videos. The site, http://www.students.bucknell.edu/ekrout/images/911 _In_America/images/gallery/index.html [bucknell.edu] , should be able to take high-abuse in terms of bandwidth, etc. It's a resource, so feel free to use it. Thanks.

Media Archive - Faster Speeds (1)

beefdart (520839) | about 13 years ago | (#2286489)

We here at school have begun collecting images and video to help out with the bandwidth problem the news sites are having... Here [rit.edu] Also feel free to send anything in...

Slashcode (-1)

egg troll (515396) | about 13 years ago | (#2286342)

Seems that Slashdcode had its problems yesterday so not all of the Internet proved its mettle. Tell me again how SQL scales?

Re:Slashcode (-1, Flamebait)

trelyle (61484) | about 13 years ago | (#2286436)

fucking dickhead.
where is your head at posting something like that here?

Re:Slashcode (2)

unitron (5733) | about 13 years ago | (#2286474)

I was impressed that Slashdot and the internet in general did as well as they did yesterday considering the no doubt unprecedented load and traffic.

Get it right, W (1, Funny)

billybob2001 (234675) | about 13 years ago | (#2286343)

Gather information before acting, Mr Bush.

Yes we know it wasn't McVeigh this time, but that's all we do know.

Let's spare some innocent lives this time.

Re:Get it right, W (1)

5foot2 (24971) | about 13 years ago | (#2286435)

This Time? When was the last time?

McVeigh (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 13 years ago | (#2286477)

How many times did McVeigh attack large buildings?
I think it means that OKC was immediately blamed on middle east, and turned out to be home-grown.

SO BOMB THE ISLAMICS TODAY! (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | about 13 years ago | (#2286438)

'nuff said

Re:Get it right, W (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | about 13 years ago | (#2286462)

I've already seen slashdotters saying we should bomb every enemy we have "just in case".

I've heard co-workers saying we should nuke Afghanistan.

I'm ashamed to be american.

I thought slashdot (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | about 13 years ago | (#2286345)

was against the US government? Why the support all of a sudden?

Ob Poliglut (2)

rw2 (17419) | about 13 years ago | (#2286347)

And also the obligatory plug for Poliglut.

Thanks for all who have sent in news and emailed their thanks during the crush yesterday.

Several stories, a diary of the events and many links available from the .sig

Donate money to the red cross (4, Informative)

Libertius (83369) | about 13 years ago | (#2286348)

Link available on amazons frontpage [amazon.com] . So far, $481,726 has been collected. Please help, most of us can spare a dollar...

Re:Donate money to the red cross (1)

yellowjacket03 (470997) | about 13 years ago | (#2286423)

I just donated $50, and I suggest that everyone spare what they can.

Suspects (3, Interesting)

dopplex (242543) | about 13 years ago | (#2286352)

MSNBC (The TC channel) was saying that two suspects had apparantly attended flight school in Florida last summer. It didn't have any more information on WHO the suspects were however. Here [msnbc.com] is a related story there.

Iraq theory creditable (5, Interesting)

nanojath (265940) | about 13 years ago | (#2286353)

Media and others are jumping on the Osama Bin Laden theory a bit too eagerly for my comfort. I've had my eye on Iraq since yesterday night. People keep saying it wouldn't be that hard to do this - this is bull. While the armchair commandos and flight-simulator captains blow smoke about how anyone could do this, veteran pilots and intelligence and terrorism experts keep telling us it was a highly sophisticated and intricately planned attack. Noone can deny it is leaps and bounds above what Bin-Laden's organization has accomplished thus far.


Note Iraq's basically unique reaction at http://www.cnn.com/2001/WORLD/europe/09/12/mideast .reaction/ and judge for yourself. I can't help thinking about unfinished business, and the sins of the father... But please remember: NOONE except those responsible know for sure who the culprits are. Rash action will rightfully incite more hatred from people not responsible for the action. If we act cooly, rationally, carefully but implacably it will be better for everyone.

Cowards (2, Troll)

Reality Master 101 (179095) | about 13 years ago | (#2286354)

You know, I have to speak up about something: I am sickened by the cowardice I saw yesterday on Slashdot. There were many that were calling for appeasing the terrorists. Many called for just "moving on", and not making a response. Still more said that we shouldn't "make them mad" by striking back, which would invite more terrorism. Many even said that we should try and "understand" the terrorists.

Hogwash.

Tens of thousands of people have died. These are not freedom fighters, these are mentally disturbed people with great resources. Should we have tried to understand Kaczinsky when he sent mail bombs? Or do we remove him from society?

The perpetrators must be punished, and the countries that give safe harbor to these countries must be punished. As an American, I believe the response must be overwhelming force. Terrorism on American soil? This must not be tolerated.

You people who think that we are inviting more terrorism have it exactly backwards. That is how the terrorists want you to feel! The want you to feel fear, to give in to whatever demands they make. We must NEVER do that. Once they find out that we will do nothing to their attacks, particularly on this scale, it will invite every crazy to cause more damage.

It's time for Sheriff Uncle Same to ride into town, and kick some bad-guy ass. The cowards who wring their hands over what needs to be done make me sick. Go hide under your bed, and allow the grown-ups to do what needs to be done.

We need more Americans like Jeremy Glick (5, Interesting)

typical geek (261980) | about 13 years ago | (#2286363)

who sacrified himself [adequacy.org] to save others, on United Flight 93.

Re:We need more Americans like Jeremy Glick (1)

TrollMan 5000 (454685) | about 13 years ago | (#2286453)

Better to go down swinging than to cower in fear. Mr. Glick probably saved hundreds of lives by averting another building hit. There are many more passengers than terrorists, so it is possible that the terrorists were subdued.

It's just sad that the plane went down anyway. Godspeed.

Re:Cowards (2, Interesting)

Libertius (83369) | about 13 years ago | (#2286384)

Perhaps your right... but i would appreciate if you make sure you don't take the life of innocent civilians while doing so. I don't believe the civilians in the middle east (or where ever the guilty are found) deserve to die any more than the civilians in USA.

Re:Cowards (2)

Reality Master 101 (179095) | about 13 years ago | (#2286442)

but i would appreciate if you make sure you don't take the life of innocent civilians while doing so. I don't believe the civilians in the middle east (or where ever the guilty are found) deserve to die any more than the civilians in USA.

I don't know. Are civilians in, say, Afghanistan as innocent as the ones in New York? I don't think they are. They know they have a radical government. They know they have one of the worst terrorists living in their country. What responsibility do the citizens have to overthrow a government of that sort?

Now, I don't think we are going to go out of our way to hit civilian targets. But I don't think it's correct to call them "innocents", either. The cancer must be removed, however.

Re:Cowards (1)

Libertius (83369) | about 13 years ago | (#2286473)

And your goverment is innocent?

Re:Cowards (-1, Flamebait)

socialist fish (23418) | about 13 years ago | (#2286404)

<blockquote>Terrorism on American soil? This must not be tolerated.</blockquote>

So, tell me why you all patriotic "americans" (hey, I'm not from the USA, but I'm american too... No, I'm an idiot, the only americans in the whole continent are the states' people) had tolerated for decades terrorism made by your army and politicians in countries all around the world?

<BLOCKQUOTE>It's time for Sheriff Uncle Same to ride into town, and kick some bad-guy ass.
</BLOCKQUOTE>

Yeah, fine, you're always the good guys and the rest of the world bad guys.. Stop watching western movies.

Re:Cowards (-1)

Trollificus (253741) | about 13 years ago | (#2286412)

I see it this way.
We risk retaliatory action by sending troops in and bombing the shit out of the people who did this. But we risk the chance of what happened yesterday happening AGAIN because we sat on our asses and did nothing about it.
It's time to make a stand, once and for all.
Even Russia has offered help, and they are readying troops just in case. It's amazing how even old foes can set aside their differences when faced when a common enemy.

Everyone is outraged about this. Liberal, Democrat and Communist alike, because they know it could have easily been one of their cities in ruins.

Re:Cowards (1)

ScumBiker (64143) | about 13 years ago | (#2286427)

Thank you, sir. You took the words out of my mouth.

Fuck terrorism. Kill 'em all. I can't even think of an epitaph that describes my feelings towards these things.

Re:Cowards (2)

leviramsey (248057) | about 13 years ago | (#2286476)

I agree with you that the people behind this need to have their ass/collective ass kicked, but at the same time I think that the smartest thing to do is to re-examine every aspect of the US relationship with the Middle East (specifically wrt our support of an Israeli regime that has been in violation of many treaties since 1948).

Re:Cowards (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | about 13 years ago | (#2286487)

I'd rather be a "coward" and move deliberately, and ultimately punish those who caused this chaos WHEN WE KNOW WHO THEY ARE than "be a man" about it and throw bombs indiscriminantly, only to find that all those men, women, and children we killed had nothing to do with it.

My Speculation (1, Troll)

UltraBot2K1 (320256) | about 13 years ago | (#2286355)

All you "patriots" who were arguing that technology like Carnivore and facial recognition cameras were a violation of privacy had better get used terrorism, because if we don't do something, it's going to get a lot worse in the coming months.

I would GLADLY have my communications monitored rather than having 50,000 innocent civilians slaughtered like this.

I hope you privacy activists are happy now. Because of your whining about "rights", the terrorists were able to walk right under our noses. The blood of the innocent is on YOUR hands!

Re:My Speculation (0, Flamebait)

Dr. Prakash Kothari (314326) | about 13 years ago | (#2286372)

Hear, hear! I couldn't have put it better myself. If we want to live in a safe, civilized nation, we need to give up some of our lesser freedoms. I would be more than willing to let the FBI or CIA read my correspondence if it will prevent something like this from happening in the future. I've got nothing to hide.

On a related note, Britain has been doing this for years, and they've never had any problems with terrorism on this scale. I think most Britians would agree that sacrificing a few minor liberties in exchange for increased personal security is quite a fair trade!

Re:My Speculation (2)

technos (73414) | about 13 years ago | (#2286415)

and they've never had any problems with terrorism on this scale

Yeah, but for the Brits, one car bomb and a dozen dead a week in downtown London is an acceptable loss. Who are you trying to kid?

Re:My Speculation (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | about 13 years ago | (#2286445)

You are a jackass. The FBI and the CIA have been reading your correspondence for years, and look where it got you.

And nobody has had any problems with terrorism on this scale, but in Britain we have had our own problems (not helped by the US who tended to fund the IRA. That's right. The states sponsor terrorism too.) and our democratic rights have been weakened in the name of counter terrorism and I don't like it one bit.

Re:My Speculation (2, Interesting)

Ed Avis (5917) | about 13 years ago | (#2286374)

If the passengers on those planes had been armed and able to defend themselves, the disaster would never have happened.

Re:My Speculation (5, Interesting)

Russ Nelson (33911) | about 13 years ago | (#2286447)

It comes down to completely disarmed passengers. If the government has mandated that nobody has a weapon, and you've got something sharp, you're more powerful than everyone else. If guns are allowed on airplanes, brandishing a gun doesn't make you powerful. It makes you a target. Given a sample size of several dozen people, it's very likely that one of them is a better shot than you are. Worse, she knows to shoot you, and you don't know who she is to shoot her.
-russ

Re:My Speculation (1, Redundant)

mrscorpio (265337) | about 13 years ago | (#2286478)

Why is this modded as flamebait? I happen to agree, going to mod me down?

Chris

Re:My Speculation (2)

Skyshadow (508) | about 13 years ago | (#2286482)

Hey, I'd settle for stationing a Marine in the cockpit of each plane... At least it'd force potential hijackers to smuggle on guns or bombs (which is much more difficult).

Re:My Speculation (1)

FooDog (68645) | about 13 years ago | (#2286491)

Ummm...ummmm....please explain to me how letting people carry weapons onto an airplane would have prevented anything?? If the passengers can bring guns (which I assume you mean), then doesn't it stand to reason that the TERRORISTS would bring guns on as well? A little forethought please....

Re:My Speculation (3, Insightful)

mrscorpio (265337) | about 13 years ago | (#2286383)

Those who are willing to give up freedom for safety, deserve neither safety nor freedom.

Chris

Re:My Speculation (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 13 years ago | (#2286407)

Please post evidence that domestic surveillance would have helped in any way prevent this attack.

Re:My Speculation (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 13 years ago | (#2286425)

Terrorism exists in police states.

How can you expect to purge it wholly from a democratic free state?

The former is the level of control that the latter can never achieve. And still it is insufficient.

It's all a matter of who's outsmarting who, and just because you monitor every cellphone, landline and internet connection in the world doesn't mean that a group of people cannot discuss something without eavesdropping.

Re:My Speculation (1)

Fixer (35500) | about 13 years ago | (#2286440)

Bullshit. Point me to the evidence that said that cryptographic tools enabled the terrorists to do what they did.

And irrelevant. Even if such tools directly enabled that tradgedy, it is still a great wrong to give up our freedom to the government. Because the government is filled with people just as fallible as we are. They have, they are and they will continue to abuse such power as we choose to give them.

Re:My Speculation (1)

linzeal (197905) | about 13 years ago | (#2286469)

How would you of stopped these people? They were lo-tek meaning they could of used codewords for everything, "Lets go get an anchovie pizza"---*Codeword Decryption in progress---*"Lets go fly a plane into a building together and meet in heaven".

Unless you can tell me how in the hell you are going to know that when a particular individual calls another individual and asks for something or mentions something in passing that they really mean something else entirely than you sir, are a loon. There was no bomb making materials, it is not illegal to learn to fly (even if you are arab in the United States), and they used 4 inch knives and box cutters to take over planes. How would monitoring all the transmissions nocturnal, extraterrestrial or otherwise prevented this?

Our Rights (4, Insightful)

Coffee Warlord (266564) | about 13 years ago | (#2286356)

The following was a letter emailed to the President by a friend of mine, and I think you would all be interested in reading it.



I am writing you to express my thanks for your sincere and thoughtful remarks on today's national tragedy. Like you, I offer my condolences to the families and friends of the victims of this horrific attack. I also write you on behalf of potential victims of a growing and unreasoned response to this travesty.

Interspersed with the reports on today's national tragedy, I have been hearing other news that is as disconcerting as the senseless loss of life. Namely, that Federal Law Enforcement Agency spokespersons are talking of limiting not only civil liberties of free passage, but veiled references to endorsing the curtailing of privacy-enabling technologies, all of which are cryptography-based.

It seems that those who truly care about freedom and all that it entails are being afforded no time to mourn this day's losses. I believe it no product of wild speculation to suggest that many policiticians and media pundits will once again renew their calls for limitations on public access to strong cryptography. These movements will be built on the graves of the dead in New York, Washington and Pennsylvania. The claim will ultimately be made that if cryptography had not been so readily available, our intelligence agencies would have been able to detect and summarily thwart today's attack on the contintental United States.

Suffice it to say that I can no sooner embrace such notions than I can embrace the terrorists who brought this tragedy to our nation's shores. And anyone suggesting such a course of action should be met with resistance equal to that which you call on us to muster against the forces of terrorism.

The day we sacrifice our liberties in the name of "security" is the day that the terrorists' goals will have been achieved. To reiterate the wisdom of Benjamin Franklin, if we surrender our liberty in the name of security, we shall have neither.

It is unfortunate that it seemed necessary to compose this note less than twelve hours after this day's attack, but it is every citizen's duty to take every possible action to avert national disaster; especially one in the making.

Thank you for your valuable time. It is my hope that the perpetrators of this crime against the United States will be swiftly brought to justice. God bless America.

Icey Hot Stunnaz!! (-1)

egg troll (515396) | about 13 years ago | (#2286360)

In other news, the Icey Hot Stunnaz [geocities.com] are reported to be safe. The nation breathes easier.

A word of thanks (2)

iplayfast (166447) | about 13 years ago | (#2286367)

Thanks slashdot for the fantastic work you have done over the last 2 days. When other services have been down or out, you have been able to fill us in and have provided a forum for people to use, and provide links to working news sources.

This isn't news for nerds exclusivly but it was well worth the exception.

Destination of PA plane? (2, Interesting)

revscat (35618) | about 13 years ago | (#2286368)

Has anyone heard any credible speculation as to the destination of the plane that crashed in Pennsylvania was? The other three planes obviously had specific targets: the Pentagon and the two WTC buildings. The fourth crashed southeast of Pittsburgh. As nice of a city as Pittsburgh is, I'm sure, I can't recall any significant landmarks or financial centers that exist there.

- Rev.

possibly Camp David (1)

fdsa (78632) | about 13 years ago | (#2286408)

I've heard rumours that the plane was headed for Camp David.

Re:Destination of PA plane? (4, Informative)

Villain (19081) | about 13 years ago | (#2286411)

There were many in the media speculating that the destination of the 4th plane was camp david. I believe it went down about 85 miles from camp david. If I am not mistaken, didn't the camp david accord take place in september. (Terrorist usually pick the day of an attack to have a certain meaning).
There were also rumors that the plane was headed for another D.C. area landmark such as the White House or the Capital building. But of course, all of this is speculation by me and the media so take it with a grain of salt.

Re:Destination of PA plane? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 13 years ago | (#2286416)

I have heard speculation that it was headed for Ft. Detrick, Md. where the U.S govt. has a large underground National Command installation.

Re:Destination of PA plane? (1)

3am (314579) | about 13 years ago | (#2286431)

camp david was mentioned as a probable target.

Re:Destination of PA plane? (1)

Libertius (83369) | about 13 years ago | (#2286439)

I've heard speculation about Camp David, the white house etc on CNN. Guess it will take a while until we know for sure. Camp David seemed interesting, considering the anniversary of the Camp David peace agreement...

Re:Destination of PA plane? (3, Interesting)

dlapine (131282) | about 13 years ago | (#2286454)

Oliover North, LtCol, retired, made the remark during an interview on T.V. that the fourth plane may have been headed to the National Emergency Command Center in Ft. Deitrick (sp?).

If the president chooses to remain on the ground instead of on kneecap (national emergency airborne command post the 747) it's possible that he might relocate here. There would definitely be a crisis team stationed there.

Re:Destination of PA plane? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 13 years ago | (#2286460)

Latest speculation I heard is that it was possibly headed for Camp David. Although W wasn't there at the time, I imagine that this was planned long before his schedule was determined.

Re:Destination of PA plane? (2, Informative)

iainl (136759) | about 13 years ago | (#2286479)

The current official statement appears to be that the crash near Pennsylvania was aiming for Camp David, although I have also read speculation that a target was the Sears Tower. Fortunately, it would appear from the latest updates that there was enough time between the second WTC crash and messages from passengers that they were informed of the real reason for their hijacking, and the plane was deliberately downed before reaching the intended target.

Re:Destination of PA plane? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 13 years ago | (#2286484)

Reports including flight tracking put the plane turning arround near cleveland, and on track for DC (and camp david too I believe)

White house, capitol building, and camp david seem likely...

Congradulations (1)

steveo777 (183629) | about 13 years ago | (#2286369)

I'd just like to thank all the /.ers out there who set up mirrors and the like. Kudos to you for acting so quickly to help out the world's public find their news.

speculation (4, Offtopic)

graveyhead (210996) | about 13 years ago | (#2286370)

My wife and I were speculating last night: will they rebuild the towers? They will almost certainly fix the Pentagon because only about a fifth of the building was damaged, but what about our landmark center for capatailsm? Thoughts?

Re:speculation (5, Offtopic)

ekrout (139379) | about 13 years ago | (#2286403)

The best comment I've heard was that we should rebuild the towers, but this time have three -- two smaller ones on the sides, and in the middle, a much taller one, symbolizing a hand giving the middle-finger to whatever cowards were responsible for the act.

Re:speculation (1)

Ziktar (196669) | about 13 years ago | (#2286418)

Actually, it was even less than 1/5th of the Pentagon. If you look at the vids, you'll see that the Pentagon is frickin' huge, and is standing well.

As for the WTC Towers, I believe Americans are stubborn enough to rebuild, but I don't know if they'll be able to fill the rooms as easily as before. Would you want to work in the WTC Towers now that this has happened?

Re:speculation (1)

Cairsten (520612) | about 13 years ago | (#2286451)

I, for one, hope they will. And I think, as I'm sure many will agree, that rebuilding, bigger, better, and stronger, is the best message we can send to anyone who dares to view yesterday's actions as anything but atrocious. Terrorist actions will not faze us, we will not be cowed, and the damage will be undone, leaving no trace of what you attempted, and a more lasting monument to the American spirit. I'm going to write to my officials and ask that it be made a priority... if everyone does the same, who knows what we can accomplish?

Love and light..

Re:speculation (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 13 years ago | (#2286463)

The speculation in the news circles is that the PA and Pentagon planes were supposed to both hit the White House.

Re:speculation (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 13 years ago | (#2286470)

They shouldn't rebuild the towers. They need to build a memorial park on the site.
Then they need to build a single tower, to be the tallest in the world to demonstrate the US's wealth and power. And send the same message to the enemies of America that the Washington monument does. (huh huh he said "phallic" huh huh).

Re:speculation (2, Insightful)

Can (21457) | about 13 years ago | (#2286481)

I can't see rebuilding the towers as possibly being economically viable.

From what I understand, skyscrapers in general have become less and less desirable. If I recall correctly , the report I read a while back said it is a rare case that it makes sense for a building over 10 stories to be built nowadays.

But even if we say, "America needs to rebuild the towers as a show of strength" and if the insurance companies and government throw a whole ton of money at the project to rebuild, I still can't imagine it being a wise investment. After repeated terrorist attacks, what company would want to move in? Who would want to work in a building that people routinely try to level? It just doesn't seem to me that rebuilding will work, as much as it annoys me that we've lost these buildings to the terrorists.

Re:speculation (1)

jibster (223164) | about 13 years ago | (#2286485)

Don't you think NY should have a new park to mark the location of the heros?

I for one think that there must be some sort of monument erected to the people who died there.

-J

Over the top editorials (5, Interesting)

ChrisDolan (24101) | about 13 years ago | (#2286373)

Numerous editorials in todays NY Post have advocated ignoring the law and using racist, mob logic to correct the injustice of yesterday's attack. These frothing calls to action are not only irresponsible, they are barbarous.

"Who is responsible for yesterday's carnage? That's no great mystery."
- editorial 4006 [nypost.com]

The law of the land is innocent until proven guilty. Until there is concrete evidence pointing to the perpetrators of the terrorist attacks, there can be no action. If the US attacks without evidence, then we are terrorists as well, and would deserve all the condemnation we are piling on our - still unknown - attackers.

"To hell with Bill Clinton's 'gather the evidence and proceed to court' approach."
- editorial 4022 [nypost.com]

"The response ... should be as simple as it is swift - kill the bastards. No, I don't mean hunt them, arrest them, extradite them and prosecute them in a court of law. I mean a far quicker and neater form of retribution for this cabal of cowards. A gunshot between the eyes, blow them to smithereens, poison them if you have to."
- Steve Dunleavy editorial 3999 [nypost.com]

Both of these editorialists call for dismissing the due process on which our justice system is based. They call for the removal of equal treatment under the law. These demands for extreme measures are demands for the creation of a dictatorship, of a police state. Assassinations, executions without trials, condemnation without evidence - these are the hallmarks of regimes like Stalin's Soviet Union, Mao Tse Tung's China and Hitler's Germany.

Consistent and reasoned responses are imperitive in civilized society. Everything else is barbarism.

Re:Over the top editorials (1)

3am (314579) | about 13 years ago | (#2286393)

seriously, you are totally missed the boat at some point.

Re:Over the top editorials (1, Flamebait)

Skyshadow (508) | about 13 years ago | (#2286428)

Maybe -- just maybe -- you could give it 24 hours to sink in before you start criticising people; I guess we're all just not as enlightened as you are.

For my money, I think it's perfectly acceptible to still be very upset.

Re:Over the top editorials (1)

Coffee Warlord (266564) | about 13 years ago | (#2286430)

While you most certainly have a point, I must say that this is not a criminal act. This is an act of war. We should not be tracking down the culprit to prosecute them under our law, we should be retailiating as per the 'rules' of warfare. Declared or not, we are at war with those who planned this attack and with those who harbor them, and should respond appropriatly.

Re:Over the top editorials (1)

w.p.richardson (218394) | about 13 years ago | (#2286457)

Yes, it makes perfect sense to subject these terrorists to a system of justice that they condem, since their acts are clearly within the law, right. Face it, the attack yesterday was an act of war. War is hell, deal with it.

Re:Over the top editorials (1)

Ray Yang (135542) | about 13 years ago | (#2286471)

American law is designed to protect American citizens. There's nothing that says we have to treat foreign terrorists as citizens, or try them in the courts. We can and should make war upon those who make war against us.

Re:Over the top editorials (5, Interesting)

falloutboy (150069) | about 13 years ago | (#2286496)

"Numerous editorials in todays NY Post have advocated ignoring the law and using racist, mob logic to correct the injustice of yesterday's attack. These frothing calls to action are not only irresponsible, they are barbarous."


As a New Yorker, I have the priviledge of seeing the Post every so often next to more intelligent, reputable publications, and what you should realize is that this is par for the course. The Post pretty much always has a dumb, reactionary comment to make. On a scale of journalistic integrity, they're only slightly above tabloids in that they sensationalize real events, instead of fake ones.

Also from the count-blessings dept. (1, Redundant)

TrollMan 5000 (454685) | about 13 years ago | (#2286376)

There were 6 survivors pulled from the rubble this morning, 1 police officer and 5 firefighters. Apparently when the building collapsed it did in such a way that an air pocket was formed, allowing room for the people and shielding them from more debris.

There's probably been more survivors nowrescued now. It's amazing that anyone could have survived the collapse, considering the amount of building involved.

Ha ha... (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | about 13 years ago | (#2286379)

I have to say, this whole thing has been a laugh riot. Funnier than Columbine, even, and I was rolling on the floor laughing my ass off and getting my trenchcoat all dirty when that happened.

I mean, Jesus, think of the material that SNL, Leno, Letterman and countless others have to work with here!

Remember the Skyline ... WTC 2002 (2)

abde (136025) | about 13 years ago | (#2286387)

I made a few small logos which i'd like to share:

http://www.abde.net/images/911-TN.jpg "9-11"

(9-11 as in september 11, and also as in emergency, etc)

http://www.abde.net/images/remember.jpg "Remember the Skyline"

http://www.abde.net/images/wtc-2002.jpg "WTC 2002"
(as in, rebuild)

do copy and pass it on if you think its worth sharing. these are
meant as an expression of solidarity, of remembrance ... i dont know.

Pilot skills / Collapse (5, Informative)

glowingspleen (180814) | about 13 years ago | (#2286388)

Great articles on Slate right now:

Why the Towers collapsed:

http://slate.msn.com/code/explainer/explainer.as p? Show=9/11/2001&idMessage=8265

How good were the Pilots?

http://slate.msn.com/code/explainer/explainer.as p? Show=9/11/2001&idMessage=8270

Damage report, please. (5, Interesting)

Belly of the Beast (457669) | about 13 years ago | (#2286390)

If some one has a concise report of the damage to the WTC beyound the towers(which buildings, what damage, etc.) it would be of interest to those of use in the hinter lands

This means war. (-1, Flamebait)

MatthewLovelace (465003) | about 13 years ago | (#2286391)

I mean it. The politicians sat around trying to "make peace" with fundamentalist Islam, offering concession after concession, offering "land for peace".


By doing so, they have repeated Neville Chamberlain's appeasement policy. As Chamberlain coddled Hitler, we have coddled the terrorists and those who support them.


The only rational solution, the only JUST solution, is to identify our true enemies and destroy them. Death without mercy to those behind this atrocity is the only legitimate answer.


We can never forget, and we must never forgive.

IMAGE and VIDEO Mirror tarballs (5, Informative)

Harper (5397) | about 13 years ago | (#2286392)

I have set up a rather extensive set of image and video mirrors.
http://www.watership.org/media/

I have made tar balls of the images and the movies so everyone will be able to set up their own mirror.

http://watership.org/media/images.tar.gz -(26985k)
http://watership.org/media/movies.tar.gz -(200189k)

i am not sure on the copyright issues. But anyone is welcome to dload and set up content mirrors.

Ad Revenue (5, Interesting)

NetJunkie (56134) | about 13 years ago | (#2286395)

I noticed that no TV or radio stations were doing ANY commercials around here yesterday. I was thinking how good it would be for some sites that got a LOT more traffic yesterday to donate some of the profit to the Red Cross or another relief organization.

Slashdot mentioned getting 3x as much traffic..how about donating some of the after-expenses profit?

ebay exploitation of disaster banned (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 13 years ago | (#2286397)

ebay, in an attempt to prevent exploitation of yesterday's terrorist attacks, has banned and removed auctions containing items related to the world trade center and the pentagon.

http://news.cnet.com/news/0-1003-200-7137598.htm l? tag=mn_hd

Interesting... (5, Interesting)

Skyshadow (508) | about 13 years ago | (#2286401)

This is interesting:

I'm a reasonably intelligent person, I know that the NSA is basically admitting to recording all cell phone traffic, I know this will include my private calls...

And I don't care. Maybe I will in a week or two, but right now...

Anyway, I'm usually very pro-privacy, so I found my reaction on this one interesting.

Re:Interesting... (2, Interesting)

stcanard (244581) | about 13 years ago | (#2286490)

Here's the crux...

Right now, no, it would not worry me. Let's pull out all the stops and get the bastards. In a time of disaster some rules get bent, and this is one of those times. I Canada we have something called the "War Measures Act" which essentially suspends all civil rights if put into effect, and it was once in the 60's in response to internal terrorism.

The problem is if this is used to justify turning this into regular procedure for the forseeable future. This is where the concern is. Will the FBI use this to ban all encryption and install Carnivore permamently in all ISPs? Honestly, then the terrorists have won. Now is the time to start thinking about that.

How do Muslim's know their wives are menstruating? (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | about 13 years ago | (#2286409)

Cuz they can taste blood on their son's dicks :-p

Should the missile shield be built? (4, Insightful)

Razov (520769) | about 13 years ago | (#2286413)

Perhaps now it is time to think if a big amount of money should be spent on the missile shield, if even the pentagon can be hit by a terrorist attack.

Although the attack was quite well organized, it probably didn't cost too much, and the shield wouldn't be useful against this kind of attacks.

Given the current situation of the middle east, this kind of things are much more probable than a missile attack from some distant country.

The Jews... (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | about 13 years ago | (#2286424)

... are our misfortune.

We will continue to pay with our blood while we support South Africa^W^WIsrael.

The Canadian Connection? (5, Interesting)

ergo98 (9391) | about 13 years ago | (#2286437)

This is a horrendous situation and I hope most of the people got out of the buildings before the collapse. As a Canadian they might as well have hit Toronto because it feels the same. While the US media has ignored it there have been lines at blood banks across Canada, and every Canadian city has offered to help however they can (and they are actually offering for real. Toronto prepared 15 EMS teams with ambulances and all of the equipment ready to go on NY's request, and our hospitals and air ambulances prepared to take any overflow that might exist).


Having said that it is INCREDIBLY irritating seeing the natural habit of pointing to easy solutions to get the knee jerk solutions : For instance every report has been making a BIG deal about 2 of the people possibly having come from Canada (though strangely apparently they had New Jersey licenses from preliminary reports). Guess what: They flew FROM US airports, and they apparently had UAE passports, so could someone tell me why this "Canadian connection" is given such relevance? Secondly during the attack all attention was immediately placed on international flights despite the fact that the four flights were originating and destined in the US, but of course it's easy to think of foreign airports as lax versus the super secure impenetrable US airports. I just had to get this off my chest because while I would do anything for New York right now, it's hard to tolerate the habit of looking outwards for blame. As a caucasian I really feel for anyone of Middle Eastern descent as all of them are being painted with the same brush and people should remember that not every Muslim is a terrorist, and not every Middle Eastern descended person thinks this is cool: The vast majority are horrified.

ESR is totally wacko (3, Insightful)

graveyhead (210996) | about 13 years ago | (#2286443)

It seems that ESR has written an opinion piece [newsforge.com] on Newsforge that is sure to get slashdotters up in arms. Sorry couldn't resist the lame pun. Seriously though, it seems like ESR is promoting his personal agenda during this time of crisis. Hardly appropriate.

I don't want to rush to judgement... (0, Troll)

Gorimek (61128) | about 13 years ago | (#2286452)

...but have you noticed that you never see Osama bin Laden and Bill Gates in the same room?

I don't know... (0)

KryooyrK (512308) | about 13 years ago | (#2286455)

I'm just your average college student from a small town moved to the capital of the State. I too was horrified by what had happened yesterday and today I finally feel the need to speak. I've been reading through the comments and saw people write that we needed to strike the terrorists back yesterday. That would have been all well and good had we known whom the terrorists were. Sure it could be bin Laden, but we don't really know. For all we know, it was a group of National Terrorists, not an international group. Please don't go pointing fingers before the facts are out. Enough people have died already. More innocents do not need to be taken from us. Yes, I am saddened by what happened, but we also need to move on. Move on, but never forget. We cannot sit on our haunches and dwell over something that happened in the past.
As for privacy issues... how well would facial recognition work when anymore it is just a (relatively) simple operation to have your facial features changed? Sorting through hundreds of thousands of phone calls, emails, and whatnot every day just doesn't seem feasible to me. A lot of man hours would be wasted. The simple truth is that airline security is very poor right now. I'd much rather be physically searched (patted down) whenever I flew than have my face scanned every time and a computer glitch and mistake me for someone I'm not. But then again, I'm just a college student from a small town... on one really listens.

The good side (2, Insightful)

gonz (13914) | about 13 years ago | (#2286456)

FWIW I'm very impressed with the response of the American people to this unprecedented crisis. I thought the newscasters did an unusually objective job of covering the event (despite the recurrent technical problems), and the talking head experts had very interesting things to say. Fox even wheeled out Ollie North and Newt Gingrich for comments, and even they had surprisingly incisive things to say (!).

The discussions on Slashdot were atypically mature (at least at moderation level 3 ;-) ), and people kept the crass jokes and politicking to an amazing minimum. I am the moderator of a forum that reflects a much less (ahem) savvy/sophisticated subculture, and I was impressed to see my users put aside their flamewars for a day and engage in mature discussion.

We live in a period of extreme political cynicism/complacency, but yesterday reaffirmed my faith in the American people and our elected representatives. Probably everyone will revert to their non-noble selves once the shock has worn off, but I just wanted to say that it's cool, for a moment, to have old-skool solidarity with your neighbors in the face of a common enemy. :-)

Peace,
Gonz

Mothra Pheonix (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 13 years ago | (#2286459)

The United States will not just rise like phoenix from the ashes, it will rise like Mothra!

We will be the meanest son of a beech phoenix ever! Shooting fire, razor sharp talons, and faster than sound, invisible to radar.

we setup a section for relief efforts (3, Informative)

MousePotato (124958) | about 13 years ago | (#2286465)

Our organization has been very busy. Check my posts from yesterday. People in Dade County FL can use our site as the day goes on to help in our efforts. Click here [ckfonline.org] or cut and paste [http://ckfonline.org/arc/]. Thanks for everyones help everywhere.

A different Perceptive -- Harry Browne (5, Insightful)

JasonVergo (101331) | about 13 years ago | (#2286466)

Harry Browne of the libertarian party thoughts:

http://www.antiwar.com/orig/browne2.html

When Will We Learn?
by Harry Browne
September 12, 2001

The terrorist attacks against America comprise a horrible tragedy. But
they shouldn't be a surprise.

It is well known that in war, the first casualty is truth - that
during any war truth is forsaken for propaganda. But sanity was a
prior casualty: it was the loss of sanity that led to war in the first
place.

Our foreign policy has been insane for decades. It was only a matter
of time until Americans would have to suffer personally for it. It is
a terrible tragedy of life that the innocent so often have to suffer
for the sins of the guilty.

When will we learn that we can't allow our politicians to bully the
world without someone bullying back eventually?

President Bush has authorized continued bombing of innocent people in
Iraq. President Clinton bombed innocent people in the Sudan,
Afghanistan, Iraq, and Serbia. President Bush Senior invaded Iraq and
Panama. President Reagan bombed innocent people in Libya and invaded
Grenada. And on and on it goes.

Did we think the people who lost their families and friends and
property in all that destruction would love America for what happened?

When will we learn that violence always begets violence?

Teaching Lessons

Supposedly, Reagan bombed Libya to teach Muammar al-Qaddafi a lesson
about terrorism. But shortly thereafter a TWA plane was destroyed over
Scotland, and our government is convinced it was Libyans who did it.

When will we learn that "teaching someone a lesson" never teaches
anything but resentment - that it only inspires the recipient to
greater acts of defiance.

How many times on Tuesday did we hear someone describe the terrorist
attacks as "cowardly acts"? But as misguided and despicable as they
were, they were anything but cowardly. The people who committed them
knowingly gave their lives for whatever stupid beliefs they held.

But what about the American presidents who order bombings of innocent
people - while the presidents remain completely insulated from any
danger? What would you call their acts?

When will we learn that forsaking truth and reason in the heat of
battle almost always assures that we will lose the battle?

Losing our Last Freedoms

And now, as sure as night follows day, we will be told we must give up
more of our freedoms to avenge what never should have happened in the
first place.

When will we learn that it makes no sense to give up our freedoms in
the name of freedom?

What to Do

What should be done?

First of all, stop the hysteria. Stand back and ask how this could
have happened. Ask how a prosperous country isolated by two oceans
could have so embroiled itself in other people's business that someone
would want to do us harm. Even sitting in the middle of Europe,
Switzerland isn't beset by terrorist attacks, because the Swiss mind
their own business.

Second, resolve that we won't let our leaders use this occasion to
commit their own terrorist acts upon more innocent people, foreign and
domestic, that will inspire more terrorist attacks in the future.

Third, find a way, with enforceable constitutional limits, to prevent
our leaders from ever again provoking this kind of anger against
America.

Patriotism?

There are those who will say this article is unpatriotic and
un-American - that this is not a time to question our country or our
leaders.

When will we learn that without freedom and sanity, there is no reason
to be patriotic?

Harry Browne was the 2000 Libertarian presidential candidate. You can
read more of his articles at www.HarryBrowne.org, and his books are
available at www.HBBooks.com.

Seismic Observations (WTC - Impact & Collapse) (5, Interesting)

SilverThorn (133151) | about 13 years ago | (#2286467)

For those that are interested, the Lamont-Doherty Cooperative Seismographic Network (LCSN) has recorded the activity that happened at the World Trade Center so you can realistically feel what was felt there and nearby for the impact and collapse of the buildings.

LCSN Link: http://www.ldgo.columbia.edu/lcn.html [columbia.edu]

Go ahead and let them wiretap. (1, Offtopic)

MongooseCN (139203) | about 13 years ago | (#2286468)

I've got my encryption ready. All they'll be doing is wasting cpu power. And once they get machines that can decrypt messages fast enough, just double the bits in the encryption key and wait another couple years for them to catch up.

Perfect Blue Sky (5, Insightful)

waldoj (8229) | about 13 years ago | (#2286483)

The United States' sky was blue, perfectly blue. Empty, simple, clear, clean, blue. Throughout the country, millions of people looked up at the sky on Tuesday to see the most perfect, cloudless sky that has existed for many, many years.

Except for over New York City. The sky over Manhattan was obscured by thick, black smoke and dust from the remains of the World Trade Center. They did not share our sky, and we did not share theirs.

The rest of us Americans shared something else, too: television. We spent hours glued to our televisions, placing panicked phones calls every few minutes to friends and family, not to share mutually-known news, but to share the thick silence of horror. Every station broadcast the latest news, without interruption. They all used a common title: "Attack on America," sparing us the usual battle over which network's tragedy-moniker will stick.

By afternoon, many of those that had remained home to watch the news realized that they needed some face time, and headed to the streets for some human contact. Those that had spent the day at work had gotten very little done, finding themselves a part of impromptu television communities in neighboring offices. It was, of course, all that anybody talked about. Strangers gathered on street corners, nodding acquaintances traded news tips, people sobbed and prayed on the sidewalk.

All beneath that perfect blue sky. With every last airplane in the United States resting safely on the tarmac, not a single contrail scarred our endless collective ceiling.

The blood drives started by mid-afternoon, setting up cots in office parks, buses, and abandoned shopping malls. The turnout was so tremendous that crowds of people were turned away, asked to return the next day to give of their blood.

Then there were the American flags. Where happy orange pumpkins and brown ice cream cones had flapped in front of homes and businesses, now crisp new star-spangled banners hung. On Charlottesville's Downtown Mall, four girls bearing carnations walked down the street, offering bright yellow flowers to babies and businessmen, homeless women and waitresses. Nearly everybody in sight bore boutonnieres in their buttonholes, and it was impossible not to cry.

Late afternoon brought perhaps the most surreal event of the day. Congress assembled on the Capital steps and sang a verse of "God Bless America." Republicans, Democrats and Independents sang together, slightly off-key, unaccompanied by music. Under our great blue sky.

revoke sovereign-ity (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 13 years ago | (#2286486)

as the UN did for germany and japan, revoke the sovereign-ity of whatever nations participated or harbored these cowardly attackers. then we invade, put up military courts, execute the perpetrators, bring about law and order in the places that allowed this to happen, and after a few years, leave.

end of story.
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