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Oregon vs. Oracle: the Battle of Blame Heats Up

timothy posted about 3 months ago | from the named-larry-ellison dept.

Oracle 83

Rambo Tribble (1273454) writes "The ongoing efforts to assign responsibility for the disastrous attempts to create the Cover Oregon health exchange, the primary contractor for which was Oracle Corporation, have entered a new round, with Governor John Kitzhaber calling on State Attorney General Ellen Rosenblum to initiate legal action against the firm. Kitzhaber has also sought the help of Washington D.C. in sanctioning Oracle, though Oregon's own management of the project and the terms of their contract with Oracle muddy the waters, considerably. Although the AG's office hasn't committed to filing suit, yet, AG Rosenblum has said, 'I share your determination to recover every dollar to which Oregon is entitled.' Although the outcome of this is uncertain, it is likely heads, both corporate and political, will roll."

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Another Goverment Run (0)

ceide2000 (234155) | about 3 months ago | (#47136713)

Another goverment run software development project not delivered, way over budget, and fully into the blame part of the project. The only loser here are the poor people living in that state.

Re:Another Goverment Run (4, Insightful)

Luckyo (1726890) | about 3 months ago | (#47136771)

Or:

Another contract which was contracted out to a large corporate entity has not delivered, way over budget, and fully into the blame part of the project.

Re:Another Goverment Run (3, Informative)

wiredlogic (135348) | about 3 months ago | (#47136951)

Or...

Once again Oracle proves that it is incapable of delivering functional products on time and within budget. Why PHBs still get wood for them is a wonder.

Re:Another Goverment Run (1)

Tablizer (95088) | about 3 months ago | (#47137155)

Why PHBs still get wood for them is a wonder.

The sales people are experts at wining and dining and ego stroking. Merit has nothing to do with it.

Re:Another Goverment Run (5, Informative)

will_die (586523) | about 3 months ago | (#47137911)

Except that Oracle had control on some of the healthcare sites for larger states and delivered a working product on time; also Oracle was part of the team that was brought in to fix the main site and are credited by Obama himself for getting that working.
Oregon is just an example of poor management, from picking the products to use before having requirements, using the wrong type of contract, and then not doing proper check and those checks that were done were ignored by the government management.

private market (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 months ago | (#47137107)

Or:

Another contract which was contracted out to a large corporate entity has not delivered, way over budget, and fully into the blame part of the project.

But, but, it's the private sector. The market always makes sure private companies do things better than the public/government can.

Re: private market (4, Insightful)

theCzechGuy (1888010) | about 3 months ago | (#47137307)

Free market would, but there was no free market in this case. Oligarchy at best.

Re: private market (1)

rossz (67331) | about 3 months ago | (#47138403)

The free market isn't always the answer (and I'm somewhat of a libertarian). All the big iron and big database companies have a history of making big promises, then delivering something that isn't capable of doing what the sales people claimed. They're also experts and hiding bullshit in the contracts so they have their asses covered. But if they were given another few million dollars they can fix things. Pinky swear.

Re: private market (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 months ago | (#47142697)

Oh common. Seriously?

Re:private market (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 months ago | (#47138337)

Your analysis overlooks the likelihood that the entire effort of publicly managing health insurance and care delivery is a godforsaken fool's errand.

You seem to be under the false impression (1)

publiclurker (952615) | about 3 months ago | (#47136783)

that this differs from any software development project anywhere else. Of course, blaming the government for the faults of large corporations is the usual tactic for the corporate brown-nosers, as they think it makes it easier for them to refuse to admit that their masters are clueless.

Re:Another Goverment Run (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 months ago | (#47136791)

The only heads that will roll over this will be those of a few consultants or middle-managers.

Those actually responsible are powerful enough to avoid any consequences, as always.

Re:Another Goverment Run (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 months ago | (#47136867)

Yep, the people of that state ARE the losers, which is why the government they elected is seeking to redress the wrongs done to them by the corporate parasites who exist simply to siphon as much from actual productive entities as they can.

How many more bailouts will they have before we finally turn on them?

Re:Another Goverment Run (1)

F34nor (321515) | about 3 months ago | (#47137735)

That's why our motto is "Thanks for visiting, please don't stay."

Re:Another Goverment Run (1)

Earthquake Retrofit (1372207) | about 3 months ago | (#47138727)

It was sign someone posted that read "Thank's for visiting. Now go home." I think the motto is: Northwest of Normal.

Re:Another Goverment Run (1)

symbolset (646467) | about 3 months ago | (#47137855)

Even at the highest levels Oregon's government is remarkably innocent of current technology, process management, best practices, effective purchase evaluations and so on. They seem to be organizationally well insulated against an injection of good sense as well. It is a wonder every IT story from there doesn't have this ending.

orly? Portland ahead of curve, big open source hub (3, Interesting)

leftie (667677) | about 3 months ago | (#47138029)

When Oregon’s new Chief Information Officer, Alex Pettit,was on our show recently, we asked him what stood out from his move from Oklahoma to the northwest. He said there were some expected cultural differences, but that in terms of IT he was caught by surprise:

        I was surprised that things like open source wasn’t as bigin government as it is in the East Coast, or in Oklahoma, where I was. I was surprised that transparency wasn’t a bigger issue. It’s certainly a big issue in Oklahoma, and it’s less so here.

This was striking because Oregon is known for its open source community — at Oregon State’s Open Source Lab, at the annual OSCON Conference, and among many programmers. And his comments came right before an Oregonian op-ed argued that open source software could have prevented the Cover Oregon fiasco.

http://www.opb.org/radio/progr... [opb.org]

The only mistake that may have been made by Oregon State gov. tech people was letting Federal officials talk into going outside Oregon for the website project.

Re:orly? Portland ahead of curve, big open source (2)

countach74 (2484150) | about 3 months ago | (#47140883)

I used to work at the State of Oregon Datacenter. Open source is highly avoided. When I was there a few years ago, there were only about 150-200 Linux machines (virtual and physical), if memory serves. There were thousands of Windows servers, many of which could have just as easily been Linux. The entire atmosphere is that of, "avoid Linux, avoid open source." It's as if management is intent on spending lots of money. Even though I still live in Oregon, I've been laughing every time something new comes out with this Oregon vs. Oracle debacle. Knowing how the state's data center runs, it's hard for me to imagine a scenario where the crux of the problem lies with Oracle (and I am no fan of Oracle).

(I realize that Linux is not synonymous with open source. There are plenty of other open source projects, many/most of which can run on Windows as well. My use of Linux is just as a general example of how, generally, open source is handled there. Also, while I think their decisions to avoid open source are problematic, the greater issue is their overall inability to manage people. When I left that job, morale was at an all-time low, as management kept discovering new ways to make their employees' work lives more difficult.)

Re:orly? Portland ahead of curve, big open source (1)

Eshelbyk (547548) | about 3 months ago | (#47159565)

"The only mistake that may have been made by Oregon State gov. tech people was letting Federal officials talk into going outside Oregon for the website project."

should read

"The only mistake that may have been made by Oregon State gov. PROJECT MANAGERS was letting Federal officials talk into going outside Oregon for the website project."

Like the other response, I also worked at the state data center, and even had input into the design (much of which was never followed, shocker). The tech side of the SDC had problems, due to poor management, and many SMEs have left including myself. The IT infrastructure powering the healthcare applications, however, worked reliably even if the applications didn't.

Re:Another Goverment Run (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 months ago | (#47136955)

Information that never should be connected to the Internet in the hands of a corporation ran by someone who would love to create and control a real world Forbin Project, SkyNet, Virtual J. Edgar Hooversville, etc. What could possibly go wrong?

Re:Another Goverment Run (1)

Skuld-Chan (302449) | about 3 months ago | (#47137675)

You know whats funny about this - the internet which you used to post this was a government run project that was delivered on time and under budget (source: I heard that on one of Cringely's interviews with one of the principle architects on PBS)

Re:Another Goverment Run (1)

will_die (586523) | about 3 months ago | (#47137763)

Looked this up and they were off by a under three months. They were suppose to deliver the four computers by August and it did not happen until October.
One major difference between this and what Oregon didn't do was the for that contract they had well designed requirements(according to the people doing the work) the company that was awarded the contract was expected to deliver a working product(something not in the Oregon contract) and there was contract management.

Re: Another Goverment Run (1)

WyldPhyr (3622571) | about 3 months ago | (#47138515)

How suprising, a big corporate entity failed to follow through.

Re:Another Goverment Run (1)

Aighearach (97333) | about 3 months ago | (#47140157)

The only loser here are the poor people living in that state.

No, if they get our money back then the loser will be the company that did the substandard work; Oracle.

Re: Another Goverment Run (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 months ago | (#47141187)

Really? I don't think you are familiar with Oracle and Microsoft "services/products" offered to government and private companies... If the government is to blame of anything, is of having non-IT experienced people running IT projects. If they would, they've known to avoid Oracle and Microsoft services/products altogether ...

Re: Another Goverment Run (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 months ago | (#47141487)

Get ready for more of this, as Obamacare kicks in more...the train is off the tracks and headed our way.

Could end up a positive (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 months ago | (#47136717)

Maybe we'll get lucky and they'll destroy each other.

I like the non-commital announcement (2)

Mitreya (579078) | about 3 months ago | (#47136723)

She did not commit to filing suit, but said, "I share your determination to recover every dollar to which Oregon is entitled."

You can say a lot of words without promising anything. I particularly like "recover every dollar to which Oregon is entitled". It could be $0 or $1 or $100M, because she didn't mention how much that is in her opinion.

Both are to blame (4, Insightful)

nurb432 (527695) | about 3 months ago | (#47136741)

Anytime a large project goes down in flames like this, both the 'company' and the contractor are at fault.

Re:Both are to blame (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 months ago | (#47137489)

Anytime a large project goes down in flames like this, both the 'company' and the contractor are at fault.

Exactly! And the 'company' is always 64% at fault, and the 'contractor' is always 36% at fault. ...except for when the 'company' is 88% at fault, and the 'contractor' is only 12% at fault. What an utterly useless generalization!

Re:Both are to blame (1)

nurb432 (527695) | about 3 months ago | (#47138265)

No, its not useless but it is pointing out the obvious to many who dont realize it.. Often times in these situations each side does blame the other 100%, when the reality is both sides need to 'man up' and accept some responsibility.

If this would happen, it would save a lot of time, and money by avoiding long drawn out and expensive litigation. ( which in the end its really our money, the consumer and citizen )

Re:Both are to blame (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 months ago | (#47137823)

When other states proved their ability to do it, almost always better than the Federal system that was put in place, yep, they are. However Oregon shares blame for being unable to project manage this from their side, too, and boot Oracle far earlier in the process.

Re:Both are to blame (1)

countach74 (2484150) | about 3 months ago | (#47140899)

I don't know. Having worked for the State of Oregon's data center for several years, it's pretty easy to imagine a scenario where close to 100% of the blame lies with Oregon.

Re:Both are to blame (1)

nurb432 (527695) | about 3 months ago | (#47140947)

Even in the case of scope creep, or poor project goals the vendor still is partly at fault for not driving the project.

SAP (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 months ago | (#47136767)

Shoulda went with SAP

Re:SAP (2)

F34nor (321515) | about 3 months ago | (#47137741)

Should have went with Metal Toad.

Re:SAP (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 months ago | (#47139923)

Should have went with MS Access

The real problem (4, Funny)

93 Escort Wagon (326346) | about 3 months ago | (#47136803)

I live in Washington state, and I think we're to blame - at least in part. All those Oregon programmers kept coming north to smoke weed here. I was a bit surprised Oregon didn't have plenty of its own already, given its reputation; but no, you'd see those guys all over the place asking "where can I find the good stuff, man. The GOOD stuff! I need a hookup, man!"

Our own health insurance exchange did well after the first week - that's when we fired all the stoners and hired every Mormon coder we could find.

People who blame weed are the problem (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 months ago | (#47136817)

People who smoke weed made the music you listen to.

People who smoke weed designed the car you drive.

If you're driving a car not built in the US then people who smoke weed built the car you drive.

People who smoke weed came up with all those funny shows you like on TV.

People who smoke weed wrote parts of Oracle's code and people who smoke weed work for the State of Oregon.

Don't blame weed for this or any failure.

Re:People who blame weed are the problem (1)

Frosty Piss (770223) | about 3 months ago | (#47137233)

Apparently, you are incapable of understanding "humor". Ever see "Up In Smoke"?

Re:People who blame weed are the problem (1)

93 Escort Wagon (326346) | about 3 months ago | (#47137463)

Maybe he couldn't read clearly because of all the smoke between his eyes and the computer screen.

Re:People who blame weed are the problem (1)

F34nor (321515) | about 3 months ago | (#47137751)

John Stewart, Improvement Smoker
"Ever develop a an exchange... ever develop a an exchange on WEED?"

Re:People who blame weed are the problem (1)

msobkow (48369) | about 3 months ago | (#47137683)

Sprout a sense of humour.

I use medical cannabis for my migraines.

That doesn't make me humourless about weed jokes.

Re:People who blame weed are the problem (1)

drinkypoo (153816) | about 3 months ago | (#47140359)

Don't blame weed for this or any failure.

What about your defensiveness bordering on paranoia? Can we blame it for that?

Re:The real problem... isn't the weed (1)

John.Banister (1291556) | about 3 months ago | (#47137545)

That was only legalized recently. It's being a state with no state income tax next to a state funded only by state income tax, which has been the ongoing situation for many years. More of the people with brains enough for a high paying job left in Oregon don't care so much about money. Among the smart people left who do care about money, there's doubtless a higher percentage of financial predators feeding on the higher percentage of financial gullibility in the surrounding population. This reinforces the "money people are evil" stereotype and the "tax 'em" response to it, maintaining the situation.

Re:The real problem (1)

StormReaver (59959) | about 3 months ago | (#47137887)

...that's when we fired all the stoners and hired every Mormon coder we could find.

I knew porn was conducive to programming!

Stupid govt (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 months ago | (#47136821)

stop giving contracts to grifters, also quaintly known as the private sector.

Re:Stupid govt (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 months ago | (#47137615)

stop giving contracts to grifters, also quaintly known as the private sector.

I'd like to see the government do it better by not using the private sector. Oh wait, they can't which is why they rely on these companies in the first place.

Re: Stupid govt (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 months ago | (#47137779)

Actually, they most likely could. It's just that if they did, all the idiots who want to privatize clearly public functions wouldn't be able to steer contracts to their corporate buddies. Because, you know, somehow paying a profit on top of expenses magically makes things cost less, or something like that.

Guess what? Most private contracts are frought with issues and are chronically late too. It's just that they don't make headlines. The price for failure (because of people like you) in government work is very high and the rewards for success are very low. A lovely recipe for dysfunction, brought to you by people who want to fix government by wrecking it.

Re: Stupid govt (1)

symbolset (646467) | about 3 months ago | (#47137883)

Figuring out who is the wizard to build and buy your infrastructure or acquiring the best working deal from the vendor is the same skillset. They can either do both or neither.

Let's make this simple (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 months ago | (#47136883)

They're all incompetent. Oracle's consulting branch is completely incapable of doing an adequate job. This isn't news. Anyone who's worked with them knows this. Oregon hired them anyways, which means the people in charge of that project are also idiots. So, to paraphrase Obi-Wan, who is the more idiotic: the idiot or the idiot who hires him?

Who is to blame? (0)

JRV31 (2962911) | about 3 months ago | (#47136987)

With it seems like all the health care sites having the same problems, I can't help wondering how much of it sabotage caused by the republicans and the insurance companies.

Re:Who is to blame? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 months ago | (#47137011)

Darn you found us you.
Yes the Republicans got all these people into various offices and business just to sabotage the ACA, well except for Republican run states that majority of which are not having these problems.
Then you figured out that all the states are having the same problem; you are defiantly too smart for those Republicans.

Re:Who is to blame? (3, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 months ago | (#47137211)

The majority of Republican-run states refused to set up their own marketplace, they refused to expand Medicaid, and so your statement could be literally true, but also fallacious.

Perhaps you could list those states which had competently run exchanges and effective expansions of Medicaid?

Re:Who is to blame? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 months ago | (#47145071)

A few years from now we will see those states that did expand start having trouble when the free money runs out and they have to figure out how to pay for the expansion.

Re:Who is to blame? (1)

Brett Buck (811747) | about 3 months ago | (#47137121)

Right, it couldn't possibly be that the entire idea is stupid to begin with.

Re:Who is to blame? (1)

Tablizer (95088) | about 3 months ago | (#47137199)

it couldn't possibly be that the entire idea is stupid to begin with.

A bad idea originating from the Heritage Foundation? Naaaah. Never happens.

Part of the mistake is not having a decent paper-based fall-back plan, although that's no guarantee against general systematic glitches. I would note that Bush's Medicare Part D also got off to a rocky start.

Vapor roles (4, Insightful)

GregBryant (868930) | about 3 months ago | (#47137009)

Oregon produced an audit of the Oracle Debacle here: http://www.oregon.gov/DAS/docs... [oregon.gov] The audit answered the wrong questions. It accepted the magical notions and vapor roles of Oracle's corporate propaganda. For example, it focuses on the need for a 'systems integrator', as if every engineer should -not- be responsible for integration. The two big problems: 1) The computer industry's current authoritarian obsession with subdivided tasks, specialization, core competence, detailed requirements, 'no surprises' (meaning no good surprises, either), and dogmatic 'best practices' has created a generation of corporate slaves who aren't allowed to use their minds or take responsibility for anything important. 2) Which brings us to motivation. Oracle and other corporate oligarchs only want money. They have no responsibility to do anything else. Maximizing the bill is the sole priority. Three programmers, picked at random, who live in Oregon, and who have friends that need insurance, would have finished this job with FOSS, not proprietary software, in half the time a fraudulent Oracle and a corrupt State's office took to generate a broken system.

Re:Vapor roles (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 months ago | (#47140925)

>Three programmers, picked at random, who live in Oregon, and who have friends that need insurance, would have finished this job with FOSS, not proprietary software, in half the time a fraudulent Oracle and a corrupt State's office took to generate a broken system.

Bullshit. Without specs, it would have ended up exactly the same. Therein lies the issue. Everyone thinks you wave a magic "consultant wand" (or H1b, or outsourcing) and everything just *poof* appears.

If you don't understand what needs to be done and can't communicate it to the developers, no project will succeed.

Re:Vapor roles (1)

GregBryant (868930) | about 3 months ago | (#47143105)

There's nothing magical about developing software without authoritarian relationships. If someone says: 'we need a website that lets everyone shop for the cheapest insurance', a developer without a spec would simply start asking questions. Where does the data come from? Who is allowed to register? How do we inform the insurance company? What are the policy options? How do we know the policies conform to regulation? Seriously, any small unmanaged team of rational programmers would ask these questions. If they pursue the answers, they'll build a more realistic specification and tractable project than any bureaucratic management branded-nonsense-process could ever provide. I'll admit, they would need to be motivated. And I don't mean 'more money'. I mean developers who think the project is important. But, for a project like this, how hard could that be?

Why does Oracle want to dirty its reputation? (1)

Tablizer (95088) | about 3 months ago | (#47137141)

Oracle is less likely to get future government contracts in other states or levels if they have the reputation for being a drama queen and "difficult", regardless of fault. They may be better off quietly negotiating a compromise and eating some of the costs in the short term. Is the loud approach part of their Ellison bravado culture?

Re:Why does Oracle want to dirty its reputation? (1)

ColdWetDog (752185) | about 3 months ago | (#47137309)

Except that Oracle's serial incompetence is hardly new or hardly news. At least to us superior folk here on Slashdot. We've been whining about those idiots long before it became fashionable.

Still, Larry manages to buy and island and run around on his mega yacht.

What the hell are we missing here?

Re:Why does Oracle want to dirty its reputation? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 months ago | (#47137647)

Except that Oracle's serial incompetence is hardly new or hardly news. At least to us superior folk here on Slashdot. We've been whining about those idiots long before it became fashionable.

Still, Larry manages to buy and island and run around on his mega yacht.

What the hell are we missing here?

Oracle's stuff works fine. The problem is people want it to do what it doesn't do out of the box. Then you refuse to pay to train your employees on how to make these customization's. Then add in the fact that you have a prejudice against Oracle which makes your project prone to failure.

It's like the Droid followers that hates Apple. If your company suddeny purchased 10,0000 iPhone's I bet there would far more problems than purchasing 10,000 Droid based devices.

Re:Why does Oracle want to dirty its reputation? (1)

F34nor (321515) | about 3 months ago | (#47137769)

I only hate iPhone for their lack of Swype and prior to a few updates ago having to scroll to the top of the messages to call the texter.

Re:Why does Oracle want to dirty its reputation? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 months ago | (#47138801)

"Works fine" if you define that phrase to mean doing exactly what the software does correctly, and absolutely nothing more.

Last time I worked with Oracle was... 10g, maybe? They'd *finally* implemented SQL92 date/time types. You want... what... to mount the code on a read-only device, while only the data it operates on is read-write? You must be some kind of crazy person, wanting to support that kind of 1970s-era best practice!

Re:Why does Oracle want to dirty its reputation? (3, Interesting)

Charliemopps (1157495) | about 3 months ago | (#47138077)

Oracle is less likely to get future government contracts in other states or levels if they have the reputation for being a drama queen and "difficult", regardless of fault. They may be better off quietly negotiating a compromise and eating some of the costs in the short term. Is the loud approach part of their Ellison bravado culture?

You've obviously never done business with Oracle. Oracle has the same attitude about their customers as Microsoft did in the 90s. The just don't fucking care. You HAVE to have them. Everything corporate IT is in some way related to Oracle and Cisco. If you want to use anything else, you need smarter (higher paid) people, software that's not as common, and it's harder to find people that know juniper for example. Oracle knows this, but they overplay their hand. I don't know many people that like Oracle anymore. I know at least 3 companies I've worked with that have sued, and won cases against them. Nearly every contract I've been involved with them in has ended in legal negotiations of some sort. We avoid them like the plague now, but for some things we have no other choice.

That's why they hire contractors (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 months ago | (#47137295)

The government hires contractors so they have someone to throw under the bus when everything goes wrong a few years later. The national healthcare thing did it with CGI. Contractors are a layer of plausible deniability, much like spammers who create a web of third parties (companies, rented mailing lists, mailers, affiliates, and so on) all of which are shadowy finger-pointers to the extent you can't really figure out who did what if you do want to hold someone liable. Basically anything can be blamed on contractors!

Re:That's why they hire contractors (1)

msobkow (48369) | about 3 months ago | (#47138723)

This.

Even in the 90's it was so bad that a friend of mine in Florida used to set up a new corporation for each contract so that if/when he was sued, they could only seize the assets of the corporation the contract was with. And those corporations never owned a damned thing, because they leased their hardware from another one of his corporations that owned all the servers, software, and to which all the profits of the individual contracts were funnelled.

And it's a damned good thing he did, because in the space of three years two of his ever so kindly customers sued the shit out of him for crap that was either out of anyone's control or which they'd caused through their own incompetent specifications.

Because at the end of the day, the sole reason for hiring a contractor instead of an individual is so you can sue the contracting company instead of taking responsibility for your own screwups.

Re:That's why they hire contractors (1)

msobkow (48369) | about 3 months ago | (#47138739)

It's all a liability shell game.

So now that they've lost money with Oracle, (1)

John.Banister (1291556) | about 3 months ago | (#47137303)

they also want to dump money into a lawsuit? I don't think they'll recover more from Oracle than they spend suing them.

Re:So now that they've lost money with Oracle, (1)

F34nor (321515) | about 3 months ago | (#47137793)

They are literally dumping the money because the contract was not based on delivering a 'completed project.' What ever state attorney who did that needs his balls kicked. The governor's assertion that a reasonable person would assume that any project would be completed shows his lack of legal expertise, their are no false advertising claims because a "reasonable person" would have to believe those claims but according to the case law "no reasonable person would believe ANY advertising" therefore, "get fucked."

Re:So now that they've lost money with Oracle, (1)

John.Banister (1291556) | about 3 months ago | (#47138011)

I have to think that the "owing to my naive reasonableness, I was duped" argument can't fly very well in a situation where Oregon had an attorney involved in making the contract. Perhaps, in the future, Oregon can use the "we have naive attorneys" advertisement as bait in a sting operation.

Although I'm sure Oracle was Incompetent (1)

Timmy D Programmer (704067) | about 3 months ago | (#47137451)

I'm even more sure that some Oregon bureaucrat probably signed a contract that fails to properly cover their arses.

better idea (1)

slashmydots (2189826) | about 3 months ago | (#47137729)

They should fire and sue whoever was stupid enough to even seek a quote from Oracle let alone the person who decided to go with them. Oracle is a bunch of lying, scamming, unintelligent scam artists who go 2-3x over their budget on every large project they have ever worked on in all of human history. Plus, the end result never works correctly. If a contracted suggested I get Oracle to work on a project for my company, I would laugh for about 20 seconds straight then ban them from the project. We even had a course in college that should have been titled "Do not hire Oracle for anything." It was case studies of horribly failed SDLC cycle projects.

stop outsourcing and stop hiring h1b (1)

Joe_Dragon (2206452) | about 3 months ago | (#47137833)

stop outsourcing and stop hiring h1b's.

With outsourcing you get a lot of contractors and subcontractor that at times can be locked into one part of a big project and it times all the layers of PHB's and other stuff may it take time for issues to work there way from one team to an other team.

Oracle sucks (1)

Charliemopps (1157495) | about 3 months ago | (#47138127)

I don't see anyone else commenting on Oracle... they're fucking awful. I've been through EXACTLY what the state of Oregon has with Oracle. The exact same thing happened to me.

Good luck Oregon. I think dudes sailboat is worth more than your state.

Too Many Obamas (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 months ago | (#47139077)

With almost 1 million "Barak Obama"s registered in the Cover Oregon health exchange many questions must be answered.

Why did persons, ip address, from the White House register "Barak Obama" in the Cover Oregon health exchange ?

Why is Barak Obama desperate to fraud the Cover Oregon health exchange ?

Why does Barak Obama need to fraud and defund the state of Oregon through the Cover Oregon health exchange ?

It does appear clear that Mr. Obama's vision of healthcare is the vision that he enacted at the VA Administration hospitals.

Says I ... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 months ago | (#47139229)

I wrote a few words about this: http://pdxjjb-econ-politics.blogspot.com/2014/05/cover-oregon-and-oracle.html

What a Forehead-Smacker (1)

TythosEternal (1472429) | about 3 months ago | (#47139565)

As an Oregonian and engineer, I was so surprised when they went the Oracle route. For a situation like this, you've basically started out guaranteeing the result they've seen. Oregon state politics is interesting enough as it is without getting contractual corruption and national party machinery in the mix. I also happen work in the defense industry, where contracts and results like this are practically de rigueur, and it really makes me wonder how blind/naive/ignorant you have to be to expect anything other than what happened. Vote 'em out, fellow Oregonians, and replace them with two rub-able cents!

Go Oregon! (1)

felixrising (1135205) | about 3 months ago | (#47140231)

Couldn't happen to a nicer company... a company that has become highly litigious and greedy. Certainly a company I won't let in the door.

move away from oracle (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 months ago | (#47140613)

Believe it or not, there are US government agencies that have escorted Oracle sales reps out of their buildings before. (I.e., thrown them out) There is a real push from within Washington DC to get away from that company's products. Only the most mismanaged agencies still feel confident in that company.

This is Kitzhaber trying to cover his ass (1)

Grand Facade (35180) | about 3 months ago | (#47141011)

There were no deliverables in the terms Oracle was hired under.

The entire open bidding process was subverted and Oracle was handed an open ended time and materials deal.

Now that the feds are looking into going after the responsible parties Kitzhaber is back pedaling.

I was also told the states attorney will not be taking action, a private attorney will be runnng point on this action.

Not that I am any fan or Oracle's I think they may be in the clear on this one.

Kitzhaber should fall on his sword.

Wow! Corporate AND political heads? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 months ago | (#47146291)

So what you're saying is, whoever loses, we win?
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