Beta

×

Welcome to the Slashdot Beta site -- learn more here. Use the link in the footer or click here to return to the Classic version of Slashdot.

Thank you!

Before you choose to head back to the Classic look of the site, we'd appreciate it if you share your thoughts on the Beta; your feedback is what drives our ongoing development.

Beta is different and we value you taking the time to try it out. Please take a look at the changes we've made in Beta and  learn more about it. Thanks for reading, and for making the site better!

Mesa 10.2 Improves Linux's Open-Source Graphics Drivers

Soulskill posted about 2 months ago | from the onward-and-upward dept.

Graphics 58

An anonymous reader writes "Mesa 10.2 was introduced this week as the new shining example of what open source graphics (and open source projects in general) are capable of achieving. The latest release of this often underrepresented open source graphics driver project has many new OpenGL and driver features including a number of new OpenGL 4 extensions. The reverse-engineered Freedreno driver now poses serious competition to Qualcomm's Adreno driver, an OpenMAX implementation was added for Radeon video encoding support, Intel Broadwell support now works better, the software rasterizer supports OpenGL 3.3, and many other changes are present."

cancel ×

58 comments

Sorry! There are no comments related to the filter you selected.

Still relevant nowadays? (1, Flamebait)

haruchai (17472) | about 2 months ago | (#47188709)

While I'm pleased to see a longstanding opensource project is alive & well, I'm not sure if it's really relevant anymore.

Slashdotter, what say you?

Re:Still relevant nowadays? (1, Redundant)

haruchai (17472) | about 2 months ago | (#47188713)

That should be Slashdotters, as in plural, sorry.

Re:Still relevant nowadays? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 months ago | (#47189727)

I think it's absolutely pathetic. Mobile "graphics", lol.

Re:Still relevant nowadays? (5, Interesting)

rroman (2627559) | about 2 months ago | (#47188783)

I think that Mesa is necessary. I'm developing UI in QtQuick2 and it does only work with OpenGL 2 and above. Since there are platforms that don't support OpenGL 2 I have to have fallback to software rendered graphic. Mesa saves the day. If there was no Mesa, I'd be forced not to use QtQuick2 and stick to Qt widgets, which are not really designed to run well on mobile devices. And for the record, I do think, that QtQuick2 is the future of Gui development.

Re:Still relevant nowadays? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 months ago | (#47189475)

What platforms, apart from OpenGL ES, do not support OpenGL 2.0 ?

Re:Still relevant nowadays? (1)

uncomformistsheep (2950041) | about 2 months ago | (#47189637)

3 or 4 years ago, my eeePC netbook had an on-board Intel whose driver only supported OpenGL 1.x on Windows. (You had to use Mesa.)

Re:Still relevant nowadays? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 months ago | (#47191443)

Some Intel Atom chipsets are using PowerVR's GPUs, which do not have OpenGL capable Linux driver. Eg. Acer Aspire One D270 uses a software OpenGL renderer. Without Mesa one could not run modern desktop environments at all on those.

Re:Still relevant nowadays? (1)

GNious (953874) | about 2 months ago | (#47189643)

you're doing OpenGL in QtQuick2? Is that even, uhm, sane? :)
Any links to (open source) examples would be welcome, as I had a look recently, and simply got scared.

Disclaimer: I use QML et al to develop a Jolla app, and have another app in an early planning stage, where I still need to figure out how to make nice graphs.

Re:Still relevant nowadays? (2)

rroman (2627559) | about 2 months ago | (#47190489)

QtQuick2 requires OpenGL. I didn't say I'm using OpenGL directly. However there is Qt3D and QtQuick3D that you might have a look at http://doc-snapshot.qt-project... [qt-project.org] http://doc.qt.digia.com/qt-qui... [digia.com] .
As for the graphs, there are some commercial graphs supplied by digia http://blog.qt.digia.com/blog/... [digia.com] or KDAB http://www.kdab.com/kdab-produ... [kdab.com] or freely available QWT http://qwt.sourceforge.net/ [sourceforge.net] .

Re:Still relevant nowadays? (1)

GNious (953874) | about 1 month ago | (#47201545)

Big thank you!
I knew there was cause to stay with /. still :)

Re:Still relevant nowadays? (1)

garyebickford (222422) | about 2 months ago | (#47191759)

IDK if this is relevant to your particular work, but there are some very good Javascript libraries now - d3js.org comes to mind. IIRC Google has one or two as well.

Re:Still relevant nowadays? (1)

GNious (953874) | about 1 month ago | (#47201865)

Thank you!
I knew there was cause to stay with /. still :)

Re:Still relevant nowadays? (1)

jaredlineman (3693913) | about a month and a half ago | (#47235049)

can anyone recommend safariland leather like this http://www.policesupplyonline.... [policesupplyonline.com]

Re:Still relevant nowadays? (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 months ago | (#47190443)

winforms or wpf is simpler...

Re:Still relevant nowadays? (1)

cide1 (126814) | about 2 months ago | (#47191987)

Ive been working on a platform that is Linux running on a 1 GHz, 32 bit ARM, where we want to run an already existing Qt Quick 2 application. We have run mockup applications with X using the virtual framebuffer and the mesa software renderer, and found performance to be really bad. On the order of 1 FPS or so. Any suggestions on ways to make the software renderer more usable? My understanding is that LLVM would help here, but only works on x86 and x64.

Re:Still relevant nowadays? (-1, Troll)

Tough Love (215404) | about 2 months ago | (#47188795)

While I'm pleased to see a longstanding opensource project is alive & well, I'm not sure if it's really relevant anymore.

Slashdotter, what say you?

I would say that you are clueless idiot who likes the smell of his own verbal excrement on the internet. The entire open source Linux OpenGL stack is based on Mesa. I am using it right now, haven't touched the annoying binary drivers for years. Works more than well enough for what I need.

Re:Still relevant nowadays? (1, Offtopic)

TheRealHocusLocus (2319802) | about 2 months ago | (#47188881)

opensource (...) relevant

I would say that you are clueless idiot who likes the smell of his own verbal excrement on the internet.

*** Relevance fight! ***

Rosin yer bows fiddlers, hike yer skirts ladies and sweep out the pit, smoke dem crawdads while you got 'em... we're gonna have open source pit 'relevance wraslin' tonite!

Over in the corner Papa Snuff Daddy is totin' his signed binary drivers, he's a real tootin' feller. He installs clean and you can see he's runnin' but yo better watch out for his kernel panic hold, it'll get ya good. And when he gets ya, whatch gonna do, patch him? He's been patched so many times but the scars don't show 'cuz he wore out his version number years ago.

In the other corner we have the astounding Patefacio Radix Maximus Mesa! He is 'open', he is 'sourced', 'committed' to victory! You can clearly see he has the biggest package, but does he know how to use it? This feller is so smug he wants you to patch him! An when the proverbial shit hits the coolin' appatarus, who would you rather have out in the woods with ya, far away from dem vendor websites? Lets just say if Maximus panics you could fix him yerself in time. Or if you can't chop off the part of him that don't work. Ha, he heard me say that, only jokin' fella, now he's ready to fight!

The musicians were poised with their instruments. They were ready to go. It would only be a few seconds now, I wrote.

It is really very simple [blogspot.com] . The colors of the days and the watermelons go like this --

Monday: red watermelons.
Tuesday: golden watermelons.
Wednesday: gray watermelons.
Thursday: black, soundless watermelons.
Friday: white watermelons.
Saturday: blue watermelons.
Sunday: brown watermelons.

Re:Still relevant nowadays? (2)

ifiwereasculptor (1870574) | about 2 months ago | (#47189709)

Mod parent "+1 Wait, what?"

Re:Still relevant nowadays? (1)

Tapewolf (1639955) | about 2 months ago | (#47189715)

Never heard of 'In Watermelon Sugar' before. It was weirdly beautiful.

Re:Still relevant nowadays? (2)

haruchai (17472) | about 2 months ago | (#47188961)

See below for the comment you likely intended to make before you had a Tourette's spasm

http://slashdot.org/comments.p... [slashdot.org]

Re:Still relevant nowadays? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 months ago | (#47188987)

I've been reading this cesspool at -1 since bitchslap.pl, and I have to say I've never laughed so hard until now. Thank you.

Re:Still relevant nowadays? (1)

drinkypoo (153816) | about 2 months ago | (#47189693)

I'm gonna go out on a limb and say that "Tough Love" left precisely the intended comment.

On the other hand, I'm gonna say that they have also been trolled

Re:Still relevant nowadays? (1)

haruchai (17472) | about 2 months ago | (#47189957)

Trolled by whom exactly??

Re:Still relevant nowadays? (1)

drinkypoo (153816) | about 2 months ago | (#47190179)

You mean you ended a serious comment with "Slashdotter, what say you?"

Re:Still relevant nowadays? (1)

haruchai (17472) | about 2 months ago | (#47190269)

Yes, I did.
What's wrong with asking for the opinion of others who may have more insight?

Re:Still relevant nowadays? (1)

epyT-R (613989) | about 2 months ago | (#47188887)

err.. Mesa has formed the basis of opengl support in linux since the 90s.. It's still used today.

Relevent unless you are using binary drivers (5, Informative)

Sits (117492) | about 2 months ago | (#47188941)

Unless your graphics driver provides a full 3D stack (userspace GL libraries down to kernel drivers) you will be using Mesa on Linux. You are probably thinking of Mesa as purely a software renderer whereas it is also used as a frontend to open source 3D drivers and uses DRI to provide access to the hardware's acceleration.

I've yet to see binary any drivers use Mesa.

Re:Relevent unless you are using binary drivers (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 months ago | (#47189713)

we might see differently though, as AMD is toying with the idea of using mesa+shim instead of Fglrx.

Re:Relevent unless you are using binary drivers (1)

hobarrera (2008506) | about 1 month ago | (#47201173)

Hmmm. Interesting. Maybe they finally realized that they could re-use existing code instead of shipping their broken drivers year after year. Good for AMD!

Re:Still relevant nowadays? (1)

jones_supa (887896) | about 2 months ago | (#47188955)

While I'm pleased to see a longstanding opensource project is alive & well, I'm not sure if it's really relevant anymore.

Slashdotter, what say you?

The main OpenGL stack of Linux is not relevant? Interesting.

Re:Still relevant nowadays? (1)

wealthychef (584778) | about 2 months ago | (#47190131)

It's relevant, but if you install a video card, you are going to use the vendor's OpenGL stack for most of your rendering, and that's probably the majority of users.

Re:Still relevant nowadays? (2)

thue (121682) | about 2 months ago | (#47190209)

My impression is that basically all Linux distributions install the open source drivers by default. And in my experience, installing the proprietary drivers is messy.

And most distributions uses 3D in the window manager by default.

So I imagine that many more Linux users use the open source drivers (which in turn use Mesa) than uses the proprietary drivers.

Re:Still relevant nowadays? (1)

wealthychef (584778) | about 2 months ago | (#47191463)

Interesting -- I would have thought if you buy an NVIDIA card that it won't work properly without NVIDIA's driver. Same for ATI. You're saying that Mesa gives hardware support for those cards?

Re:Still relevant nowadays? (1)

thue (121682) | about 2 months ago | (#47192057)

Yes. There are free software projects making a driver for each of those, build upon Mesa. Both AMD (a lot) and NVIDIA (in small measure) has actually contributed to those projects, in addition to their closed source drivers.

Re:Still relevant nowadays? (1)

jedidiah (1196) | about 2 months ago | (#47192331)

Just because a libre driver exists doesn't mean that people are going to want to use it. Those of us interested in performance are far more likely to immediately dump those libre drivers for something that actually works well.

Free Software zealotry in this area really only makes sense if you are actively avoiding all of the software that would need a good OpenGL implementation. Most of that stuff is not Free Software either.

Re:Still relevant nowadays? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 months ago | (#47193893)

Actually, I have an AMD card and the open source driver is much more stable than the proprietary one. I don't do heavy gaming, so performance is good enough for me. But stability is much more important. So, it has nothing to do with zealotry.

Re:Still relevant nowadays? (1)

thue (121682) | about 2 months ago | (#47193979)

For dual screen setups, using the proprietary drivers is an absolute mess, while the open source drivers work perfectly. And the free drivers are perfectly adequate for non-high-end-gaming. I can play Minecraft at 1920x1600 with the open source Radeon driver at acceptable framerates.

Re:Still relevant nowadays? (2)

MikeBabcock (65886) | about 2 months ago | (#47192737)

Both ATI and NVidia cards have quite decent functionality on Linux without those vendors' drivers.

Re:Still relevant nowadays? (1)

wealthychef (584778) | about 2 months ago | (#47193803)

Who knew? thanks for the info, I was under a mistaken impression perhaps

Re:Still relevant nowadays? (1)

Arker (91948) | about 2 months ago | (#47191999)

"It's relevant, but if you install a video card, you are going to use the vendor's OpenGL stack"

No, in fact, that's one thing I definitely will NOT be using.

"that's probably the majority of users."

Gnu/linux has indeed gotten 'easy' enough to attract some clueless noobs, but I really doubt they are the majority.

Re: Still relevant nowadays? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 months ago | (#47188983)

Errm... If you have anything other than Nvidia or AMD hardware, Mesa is the only graphics driver you get in Linux...

Plus, binary blobs in a GPL kernel?

Re: Still relevant nowadays? (1)

kthreadd (1558445) | about 2 months ago | (#47189009)

Plus, binary blobs in a GPL kernel?

There's a lot of people that uses Linux that does not care about that, most of them using Android.

Re: Still relevant nowadays? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 months ago | (#47190113)

But some obviously do.

Re: Still relevant nowadays? (1)

kthreadd (1558445) | about 2 months ago | (#47190195)

Absolutely.

Re:Still relevant nowadays? (1)

Arker (91948) | about 2 months ago | (#47192007)

What, did we miraculously evolve past the need for video drivers while I was sleeping?

capable of achieving (-1, Flamebait)

Osgeld (1900440) | about 2 months ago | (#47188777)

"as the new shining example of what open source graphics (and open source projects in general) are capable of achieving"

what? almost working?

Re: capable of achieving (2)

Blaskowicz (634489) | about 2 months ago | (#47188805)

One day we'll be able to alt-tab in and out of over ten-year-old games!

Re: capable of achieving (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 months ago | (#47188859)

That's fine, they don't really sell new games anymore. They sell subscriptions to services that resemble games.

Re: capable of achieving (1)

amiga3D (567632) | about 2 months ago | (#47188939)

Oh man. That's so damn true if I had mod points I'd have to +1 ya even if you are anon.

Re: capable of achieving (1)

fuzzyfuzzyfungus (1223518) | about 2 months ago | (#47188861)

When you aren't running the one antique kernel reluctantly supported by the vendor, that starts to look like progress...

The price paid for going FOSS is more obvious on the desktop, at least if you need more punch than Intel is going to provide, since Nvidia and AMD both offer something resembling real support to proprietary customers; but once you go mobile, the state of binary drivers goes downhill fast. X drivers are more the exception than the rule, and Android drivers might go from being frozen in the 12th century to being frozen in the 15th century at some point in the product's life, if luck is on your side.

Re: capable of achieving (4, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 months ago | (#47188915)

I've been following Mesa's development for some time while working on some cross-platform 3D graphics stuff.

Right now Mesa's OpenGL implementation for Intel HD Graphics 4000+ is probably more complete than the Windows driver's. This isn't exactly a trivial accomplishment. A working OpenGL 3.3 implementation is more than what Apple offered for a long time.

Some GL features are obviously not as well optimized in Mesa, but many of them are so bad they're at least "considered harmful" anyway. And with 10.2 we got gems like ARB_buffer_storage, which basically removes the API overhead from accessing the GPU's memory. No more unpredictable stalls while writing data!

Re: capable of achieving (1)

Blaskowicz (634489) | about 2 months ago | (#47190931)

But MESA isn't OpenGL 4.0 compliant yet and that "ARB_buffer_storage" extension is from OpenGL 4.4.. How is it likely that somehow will write an hybrid application that supports OpenGL 3.3 (or 3.1) plus that one mismatched extension?

Then, maybe Ivy Bridge and some cards are supported under OpenGL 3.3 but you need to upgrade to a very recent linux distro (unless you like manual installations or unoffical sources) and then crucially, Sandy Bridge only supports OpenGL 3.1. So your application or game will target OpenGL 3.1 unless you can afford to exclude millions potential users.

tl;dr you are optimistic, and some real progress is made, but these things will still take monthes/years to get usable and/or working.

Re: capable of achieving (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 months ago | (#47191289)

But MESA isn't OpenGL 4.0 compliant yet and that "ARB_buffer_storage" extension is from OpenGL 4.4.. How is it likely that somehow will write an hybrid application that supports OpenGL 3.3 (or 3.1) plus that one mismatched extension?

Quite likely, because that's the way the extension system works.

Re: capable of achieving (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 months ago | (#47192311)

Development takes time, and GPUs are still advancing pretty fast. Targeting fresh features isn't a bad idea.

That specific feature isn't very fresh, anyways. It lets the application, or "client" keep memory mapped while GL is using it. Almost all maintained drivers implemented it pretty fast since hardware support has existed for a long time. It's more or less how the drivers were working internally; there simply was no client API for it.

The extension works with 10.2.0-rc4 from Debian experimental, by the way. Beautifully. I guess the Mesa developers actually mean it when they say they've implemented something.

When you go from shit to crap (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 months ago | (#47188911)

there may or may not be a real difference. This is why I only use Windows. The freshmaker!

Re:When you go from shit to crap (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 months ago | (#47188945)

Yup, every Patch Tuesday you get a fresh pile of crap for your Windows. Linux is so much worse, there are little dribbles of shit every day. Don't miss an update or you're sure to get rooted up the ass!

Re:When you go from shit to crap (3, Insightful)

epyT-R (613989) | about 2 months ago | (#47188953)

Then why post on slashdot? Perhaps neowin is better for you?

"An anonymous reader" (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 months ago | (#47191729)

Fuck off Michael Larabel

Check for New Comments
Slashdot Login

Need an Account?

Forgot your password?
or Connect with...

Don't worry, we never post anything without your permission.

Submission Text Formatting Tips

We support a small subset of HTML, namely these tags:

  • b
  • i
  • p
  • br
  • a
  • ol
  • ul
  • li
  • dl
  • dt
  • dd
  • em
  • strong
  • tt
  • blockquote
  • div
  • quote
  • ecode

"ecode" can be used for code snippets, for example:

<ecode>    while(1) { do_something(); } </ecode>