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Google To Take On Apple's CarPlay

Unknown Lamer posted about 4 months ago | from the aux-input-not-cool-enough dept.

Transportation 126

cartechboy (2660665) writes with news that Google is working on software to complete with Apple's CarPlay car dashboard software: Google is set to unveil its own automotive operating system known internally as Google Auto Link. The search giant plans to unveil its system at a software developer conference this month. Interestingly, Auto Link is the first production developed in conjunction with the Open Automotive Alliance, a group of companies including Audi, General Motors, Honda, Hyundai, NVIDIA, and Google itself. Like CarPlay, Auto Link won't be an "embedded" system, rather, a "projected" one--an operating system that uses a driver's own smartphone operating system. We'll obviously learn details soon enough, but for now, we are left to wonder whether it'll be Apple or Google that ends up owning the automotive market.

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Answer: Both (5, Insightful)

Que_Ball (44131) | about 4 months ago | (#47262773)

Why would it have to be exclusive?

Car makers can simply support both protocols in their built in systems and whatever device you bring just pairs up with it.

Why would an automaker want to exclude potential customers by only supporting one method or the other is the question you need to ask.  Unless Apple or Google is subsidising the cost of the car they just want to make the most attractive package possible and sell more cars.

Re:Answer: Both (0, Troll)

sosume (680416) | about 4 months ago | (#47262805)

Neither please. Choosing between a big brother-like ad-riddled OS from Google vs a severely restricted vendor lock-in from Apple? I'd rather run my car on Windows than either of these.

Re:Answer: Both (-1, Flamebait)

Grishnakh (216268) | about 4 months ago | (#47262915)

How about none of the above?

You're mostly right about Google's OS, but you left out some important stuff, like the fact that it crashes all the time, that it takes 30 seconds to start up the Maps app, that Google Maps crashes every time you go back to the home screen, etc. Considering how rock-solid reliable Linux is these days, it's utterly shameful how UNreliable and crashy Android is.

You're exactly right about Apple's OS.

But Windows? That thing (the desktop version, I'm still using 7 in my corporate job here) still isn't very reliable in my experience, plus it has a lot of the same vendor lock-in. The mobile version has the most horrid UI I've ever seen.

Re:Answer: Both (-1, Flamebait)

Grishnakh (216268) | about 4 months ago | (#47262931)

Oh yeah, I forgot to add about Android: it can't ever be updated. After 6 months, your device is obsolete and unsupported. Great job, Google.

Re:Answer: Both (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#47263021)

Are you smoking crack rock right now?

Re:Answer: Both (1, Troll)

dreamchaser (49529) | about 4 months ago | (#47263107)

Don't feed the trolls or rabid Apple fanbois. It just encourages them.

Re:Answer: Both (3, Insightful)

Lumpy (12016) | about 4 months ago | (#47263633)

Reality is that Android is fragmented to hell and back. Even now a great example. The HTC ONE M8 HTC's Flagship has a very shitty Android that most people are flashing the phone back to the google Play edition to regain functionality of Android.

Unless Google tells all phone makers "FUCK YOU" and demands they can not call it android in any way if they modify it in any way like how apple tells AT&T and Verizon that they can not put their bloated garbage all over the phone... Then it will have crap integration.

My AT&T M8 came with so much AT&T garbage baked into the rom that I was ready to smash the phone after 48 hours. Then the HTC Sense crap coupled with the AT&T crap pushed me to the point that I risked bricking the phone and went to Cyanogenmod dailies until someone released a GPE recovery image.

Re:Answer: Both (1)

binarylarry (1338699) | about 4 months ago | (#47263973)

Have you ever owned a non HTC phone?

I had all HTC phones up until my current Galaxy Note. I've since learned that HTC phones really suck.

Re:Answer: Both (1)

drinkypoo (153816) | about 4 months ago | (#47264435)

I had all HTC phones up until my current Galaxy Note. I've since learned that HTC phones really suck.

Amen to that. The build quality is poor and they refuse to implement known fixes for known engineering failures, like flex cables pulling out of keyboards when a simple piece of clear tape will take care of the problem for the life of the phone.

Re:Answer: Both (1)

Lumpy (12016) | about 4 months ago | (#47265285)

Yes was all Nexus Phones up to buying the HTC ONE M8.. the first 10 minutes with Sense made me want to get a sack of doorknobs and book a flight to Their Engineering headquarters.

Re:Answer: Both (2, Insightful)

spire3661 (1038968) | about 4 months ago | (#47264409)

Apple has fragmentation too, but they hide it MUCH better.

Re:Answer: Both (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#47266761)

I for one of a growing number of automobile operators plan to keep g00gle out of our vehicles at all cost.

Re:Answer: Both (2, Informative)

Grishnakh (216268) | about 4 months ago | (#47263153)

Um, no, I'm speaking from experience. Phones aren't supported by the mfgrs or carriers after 6-12 months. Just try asking your carrier when you're going to get an update to the latest version of Android for your 2 or 3-year-old phone. They'll tell you to buy a new one.

At least Apple seems to support their devices for a decent amount of time, if you can stomach the insane amount of control and vendor lock-in that Apple exercises.

Re:Answer: Both (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#47263553)

Most of the key OS elements are separate from the core Android OS these days, and just update via the play store like any other apps, so even if you're dumb enough to go for a locked-down, crapware-infested, update- handset from your carrier, you still don't miss out on much. However if you have any brains at all, then you buy a Nexus device, or install a clean OS build from cyanogenmod.

Re:Answer: Both (1)

drinkypoo (153816) | about 4 months ago | (#47263843)

At least Apple seems to support their devices for a decent amount of time, if you can stomach the insane amount of control and vendor lock-in that Apple exercises.

If you can't, choose a mainstream Android phone with a fairly new processor. It's likely to be picked up by the community, and someone will probably make a device based around the same chip, and put a newer version of Android on it — opening up support for your hardware.

Re:Answer: Both (1)

AmiMoJo (196126) | about 4 months ago | (#47263861)

You are a fool if you buy your phone from the carrier. My old Galaxy S3 had more than two years of updates from Samsung and continues you get them from Google. This is an old meme and only really applies to cheap, shit phones.

Re:Answer: Both (1)

Wovel (964431) | about 4 months ago | (#47263945)

If you take away the cheap, shitty, unupdateable phones, Android no longer has a market share lead...

Re:Answer: Both (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#47264707)

This is an old meme and only really applies to cheap, shit phones.

So, only about 90% of the Android devices sold on a week to week basis. Got it.

Re:Answer: Both (2)

sosume (680416) | about 4 months ago | (#47264749)

Windows XP was officially supported for over 12 years after release. Apple usually supports its hardware until up to 4 years after release. Android support is usually only offered *before* release date and a few months after.

Re:Answer: Both (1)

JazzLad (935151) | about 4 months ago | (#47263687)

Grishnakh's first post came across a little trollish (I don't think that was his intention), but his point was completely valid. The typical Android user isn't running cyanogenmod (too bad, because it's great IME), nor (in the US) using a phone that they bought outright to use on a carrier that gave no discount for BYOD (disclaimer: I am not a typical Android user either). The typical Android user is using whatever device VZW/ATT/Sprint/TMO talked them into getting and likely got no significant OS updates ever in the 1-2+ years they owned it. Contrast this with Apple (disclaimer: I hate IOS) users where their devices generally receive the latest updates. It's a ball that has been traditionally dropped.

Re:Answer: Both (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#47263089)

Last week my phone got pushed to the most recent sub release of kitkat. I have a Nexus 5. Excellent job Google.

As for Grishnakh - Congratulations on buying a vendor locked in phone. Bad job Grishnakh.

Re:Answer: Both (1)

Grishnakh (216268) | about 4 months ago | (#47263175)

So you need to buy a Google-branded phone to get good support, and all the other Android vendors such? So why bother letting other vendors make Android phones at all?

Face it, Google has done a terrible job with Android because it failed to anticipate the other vendors would do such a poor job supporting their products, and that this would reflect on Android as a whole.

Also, there was no such thing as a Nexus when I got my phone.

Re:Answer: Both (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#47263837)

Wow! When did you get your phone then?

Re:Answer: Both (2)

Karlt1 (231423) | about 4 months ago | (#47263955)

So you need to buy a Google-branded phone to get good support, and all the other Android vendors such?

Google usually only updates their phones for 18 months.

http://liliputing.com/2013/10/... [liliputing.com]

Apple just released a security update in February for the 3GS that was introduced in June 2009.

They released iOS 7 for the iPhone 4 released in June 2010.

Re:Answer: Both (1)

MachineShedFred (621896) | about 4 months ago | (#47264625)

So that's exactly the same as basically every embedded car entertainment system ever. Auto manufacturers will love it.

Re:Answer: Both (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#47263073)

How exactly is Android riddled with ads? It's Microsoft that put ads in native Windows 8 apps, and apps can contain ads on either platform (and iOS as well).

Also, given that the core of Android is FOSS, I put a lot more trust in it than either iOS or Windows. (It doesn't mean that it's safe, but it's much less likely to contain backdoors than anything closed-source.) And if you're really concerned about privacy, you can always install a privacy-minded Android fork -- Paranoid Android, for example.

Re:Answer: Both (0)

sexconker (1179573) | about 4 months ago | (#47263493)

Also, given that the core of Android is FOSS

Android is closed source and costs money to license, and you have to agree to forcing Google's shit by default (like the Play store).
AOSP is free and open source. No consumer wants a phone running AOSP.

Re:Answer: Both (3, Insightful)

LWATCDR (28044) | about 4 months ago | (#47263795)

" costs money to license, and you have to agree to forcing Google's shit by default (like the Play store)."
1. No it does not http://9to5google.com/2014/01/... [9to5google.com]
And the things that Google "forces" android handset makers is frankly what customers want.
Google started making handset makers to do make GMS and all or nothing service when a handset maker put on all sorts of Google apps but made the search BING and locked it down!
Some companies choose not to use GMS but still use Android like Amazon.
AOSP plus GMS == the Android must consumers want.

Compared to IOS, BlackberryOS, and WP Android is as free as can be. If you want source to everything but the GMS apps just run Cyanogen. You can even add in the GMS apps if you want them or just run Outlook, YahooMail, or a FOSS mailclient for mail, and the mapping software of your choice.

Re:Answer: Both (1)

iampiti (1059688) | about 4 months ago | (#47264375)

It might be the Android most people want but they could also allow to uninstall Google apps that you don't use (for example Google+ which I ocasionally use but most people don't even know what it is).
I understand that one of the ways Android phones make Google money is by enticing you to use more of their services but I wish they'd allow to uninstall their apps even if there was some kind of penalty for it (paying some money maybe?)

Re:Answer: Both (1)

Archangel Michael (180766) | about 4 months ago | (#47264881)

Google Plus is great, but it isn't Facebook. Facebook sucks, but it isn't Google Plus.

Google Plus = Interesting things I care about with people I don't really care about (not in the familial way)
Facebook = People I care about, telling me about stuff I often don't care about.

I actually spend MORE time on Google Plus, because I get MORE out of it.

Re:Answer: Both (1)

sexconker (1179573) | about 4 months ago | (#47264719)

Plenty of OEMs paid money to license Android, plenty of OEMs signed their first born child away, plenty of OEMs now have to pay more money to separately license Google's apps, which used to come with Android (there was Slashdot article about this when it happened), major OEMs pay extra on top of all other agreements in order to be able to launch a flagship product with the latest version of Android, OEMs have to pay extra again if they want access to the latest builds - whoever pays more gets access the earliest.
This is all known shit, and while there may be smaller OEMs that don't pay in cash they by agreeing to lock themselves and their users into Android and Google.
You can link to your fanboy site all you want, but it is KNOWN that Android comes at a cost, both in terms of $$$ and being tied down. Google's now even selling their apps separately for an additional cost + additional restrictions.

Amazon does not use Android. They use a heavily modified version of AOSP. Most consumers do not want AOSP. AOSP is always behind Android in terms of features, security fixes, and the constant willy-nilly UI changes.

If you really want an open phone you'd be using Firefox's phone OS, or one of the open Linux based ROMs that only work on a handful of devices.

But hey, don't let the facts get in the way of your crusade.

Re:Answer: Both (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#47263129)

how about neither one, nor windows. a car does NOT need an operating system. they've been doing just fine without for over 100 years.

none of the three companies mentioned (apple, google and now microsoft) have proven themselves to be capable of producing something, anything, with the extreme reliability and stability needed for something as demanding, and as 'mission critical' as controlling a motor vehicle or any of its components...

and even just as an info display, or systems control 'pc' in-dash, we do not need more touch screens or more complicated controls and devices in-reach and in-view of driver... less is more. tactile mechanical controls are superior to any electronic gizmo or touch screen.

add more electronics to a car, and the price goes up even more. 100 years ago, a car cost the average worker 4 months salary or less... to buy and own outright... today? up to a full year's pay or more, for something that basically does the same thing.... transports its passengers from point a to point b using a combustion engine-driven powertrain.

Re:Answer: Both (1)

torkus (1133985) | about 4 months ago | (#47263137)

Can't. Resist. Can't....
Your insurance is going to suck when they hear your car crashes almost every single day. ...

Also, why limit it in general? Assuming Google and Apple (and others) don't come up with a stupidly complex, locked-down, restricted connectivity method why could't the mfgs support anything using an open/common standard?

In reality only iOS and Android have the market share to make that feasible...but MS will likely throw a ton of money to get themselves included (oh wait, Sync? Derp what a retarded interface).

Re:Answer: Both (1)

spire3661 (1038968) | about 4 months ago | (#47264467)

Thats the hilarious part, MS had the opportunity to have a HUGE lead here, and they squander it with partnering and playing the car manufacturers games.

Re:Answer: Both (3, Insightful)

Alan Shutko (5101) | about 4 months ago | (#47263283)

It's a protocol, not an OS. Vendors won't be running Android or iOS inside their cars. They'll just be able to talk to the device you plug in or pair.

Re:Answer: Both (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#47263521)

You're new here, aren't you?

Re:Answer: Both (1)

drinkypoo (153816) | about 4 months ago | (#47264419)

Vendors won't be running Android or iOS inside their cars.

It's not inconceivable that the car will run Android, but also function as a receiver for your more updated and powerful device. That way you'd still have some kind of functionality if you forgot your phone, or for that matter, still used a dumbphone.

Re:Answer: Both (2)

kannibal_klown (531544) | about 4 months ago | (#47263581)

Neither please. Choosing between a big brother-like ad-riddled OS from Google vs a severely restricted vendor lock-in from Apple? I'd rather run my car on Windows than either of these.

You don't want that.

I'm not a Microsoft hater... I'm one of the few that think Win 8.1 is alright. But I *now* am not the biggest fan of the Microsoft "MyFordTouch" on my Ford Edge.

The Navigation system is nice, I wouldn't trade that in for the world.

But outside of GPS the Microsoft MFT system is buggy and crashes, and they failed to deliver on a heavily-advertised feature for MFT. It crashes about once-per-month, during which time while driving I lose a lot of climate-control / GPS / entertainment functionality.

The failed feature was: connecting to iOS apps. They were supposed to let the MFT connect to a handful of iOS apps like Pandora and such. They couldn't get it working.

They DID get it working on the regular Ford Sync... which lacked the large touch-screen monitor. So great... people with the cheaper system got the advanced feature while those with the more expensive system were told to "go screw."

Meanwhile they were advertising how the MFT would do this that and the other thing... and failed to deliver.

Re:Answer: Both (1)

drinkypoo (153816) | about 4 months ago | (#47263833)

Meanwhile they were advertising how the MFT would do this that and the other thing... and failed to deliver.

Some hungry lawyers must be spinning up a class-action suit by now, right?

Re:Answer: Both (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#47263721)

Car makers can simply support both protocols in their built in systems and whatever device you bring just pairs up with it.

You mean like all those outdoor speakers I can buy, which can work as either a pulseaudio sink or as airplay speaker? Oh wait, they still don't exist.

(BTW, can anyone recommend some "smart" outdoor speakers? I'll be playing music files from an ubuntu server running mpd, "connected" solely over wifi.)

Re:Answer: Both (1)

LWATCDR (28044) | about 4 months ago | (#47263723)

exactly.

Re:Answer: Both (1)

AmiMoJo (196126) | about 4 months ago | (#47263909)

Just use MirrorLink. Supports both Android and iOS. It's somewhat open and based on VNC, so should be easily supportable by almost any device. Mirrors the screen, supports multitouch control, feeds though GPS from the car's receiver.

car play more than just for cars (4, Insightful)

zr (19885) | about 4 months ago | (#47262781)

iphone is a keyboard and a tv-set away from being a full-fledged computer for 99% of the population.

Re:car play more than just for cars (1)

Savage-Rabbit (308260) | about 4 months ago | (#47263749)

iphone is a keyboard and a tv-set away from being a full-fledged computer for 99% of the population.

Actually.... it isn't, not anymore You can connect a Bluetooth keyboard to an iPhone and there is a HDMI connector available.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v... [youtube.com]
The phone desktop gets projected to the TV without changing the aspect ratio which is rather rudimentary and you can only interact with it through the keyboard and the touch screen on the device. I'd say what's missing is mainly a decent TV/Monitor mode for the iOS desktop and a touch screen display device capable of sending touch and gesture feedback to the iPhone, either that or a mouse. There is actually a Cydia app that provides mouse support but that requires a jailbreak. Personally I'd prefer a touch screen TV but the point is the same, all the iPhone need to make this workable is software development work. That being said I'd still buy a laptop to do serious work.

Re:car play more than just for cars (1)

schlachter (862210) | about 4 months ago | (#47264287)

Really this is true of any $100+ tablet/phone.
Pretty amazing.

Abcd (1)

Impy the Impiuos Imp (442658) | about 4 months ago | (#47262855)

So this is basically a smartphone app to feed a Bluetooth audio stream to the car's audio system, which is designed exactly for this anyway and people already do with their phones.

Got it. Project an interface -- project away and wait for the lawsuits you have no idea about but the automotive industry does.

Mirrorlink (3, Insightful)

AmiMoJo (196126) | about 4 months ago | (#47262863)

Do we really need another standard when we already have MirrorLink? It works fine, allows the phone to display a special "car mode" homescreen, charges... What more do we need?

Re:Mirrorlink (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#47262951)

For the lazy: mirror link [wikipedia.org] - basically it is a VNC server in the car's dashboard.

Re:Mirrorlink (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#47263599)

Do we really need another standard when we already have MirrorLink? It works fine, allows the phone to display a special "car mode" homescreen, charges... What more do we need?

For starters, Google can't gather information about you if you're using MirrorLink.

Re:Mirrorlink (1)

LWATCDR (28044) | about 4 months ago | (#47263825)

I would like to see more than mirror link.
I would love to have an option for the phone to use a GPS built into the car and the antenna. In theory it should be better than the tiny one they have to fit in your phone. Also it would be good if could have access to the AM, FM, and Satellite radio systems and can control them.
I would also like to see it have access to the things like MPG data.

Re:Mirrorlink (1)

drinkypoo (153816) | about 4 months ago | (#47263877)

I would love to have an option for the phone to use a GPS built into the car and the antenna.

Android can already do that, because Android can already use a bluetooth GPS.

Also it would be good if could have access to the AM, FM, and Satellite radio systems and can control them.

You think that would be good, but in reality it would be annoying. It's nice to have that stuff have its own controls, particularly a volume knob.

Volume buttons are the devil.

I would also like to see it have access to the things like MPG data.

Android can already do that, because Android can already use a bluetooth OBD-II interface [blueobd.com] .

In both the GPS and OBD-II cases, you can bet that the manufacturer would charge you more than you'd pay to get the functionality from a third party.

Re:Mirrorlink (1)

mythosaz (572040) | about 4 months ago | (#47266715)

About $20 is what it takes to get a fair Bluetooth ODB2 scanner and a copy of Torque Pro for your Android phone.

Pays for itself the first time you don't have to drive to AutoZone to get your next CEL read.

Kang or Koloth????? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#47262867)

but for now, we are left to wonder whether it'll be Apple or Google that ends up owning the automotive market.

Why does it matter? Both are evil and will create an closed system that is insecure & broken by design.

Re:Kang or Koloth????? (1)

jellomizer (103300) | about 4 months ago | (#47263035)

I haven't seen much evidence that Google or Apple have a trend of designing insecure or broken systems.

Yes there is the occasional security flaw. But that is about on par with everything else including the precious open source systems as well.

Re:Kang or Koloth????? (1)

sexconker (1179573) | about 4 months ago | (#47263509)

Their names are Kang and Kodos.

Already taken care of! (1, Offtopic)

L4t3r4lu5 (1216702) | about 4 months ago | (#47262871)

I bought a Mountek nGroove Snap [amazon.co.uk] car mount; Sits inside the CD slot of your stereo, holds smart phones and small tablets up to 7" using magnets and an adhesive-attached metal plate. You need to adjust it every few days, but it only takes a few seconds to do and is rock-solid afterwards.

BlackBerry (1, Funny)

ArhcAngel (247594) | about 4 months ago | (#47262885)

we are left to wonder whether it'll be Apple or Google that ends up owning the automotive market.

Well Apple's CarPlay is run on top of BlackBerry's QNX Car OS as are the majority of current in dash systems so for now BlackBerry is still #1.

Re:BlackBerry (4, Informative)

the computer guy nex (916959) | about 4 months ago | (#47262957)

"Well Apple's CarPlay is run on top of BlackBerry's QNX"

CarPlay is a protocol. CarPlay can be run on top of any Operating System. Google's old idea was to have each manufacturer fork Android for their own version of an entertainment system. Google is changing course to follow Apple's lead on creating a protocol instead.

Um, clue? (1)

Rigel47 (2991727) | about 4 months ago | (#47262999)

> "We'll obviously learn details soon enough, but for now, we are left to wonder whether it'll be Apple or Google that ends up owning the automotive market." Or BlackBerry who currently is the dominant player?

Ford switches to QNX. [computerworld.com]

apple and google are missing the point. (3, Insightful)

nimbius (983462) | about 4 months ago | (#47263011)

I dont know about other slashdotters, but Millenials like myself cant afford a brand new car, end of discussion. Years of college loans have ruined our credit score and what little we are saving is going directly toward maintaining the vehicle we already unfortunately own. For a bit less than a hundred dollars though, I can get a used car stereo and a wiring kit that lets me play music from a USB stick and over BlueTooth from my phone. If i cant afford that, I can just put my ear buds in.

I dont value a car. not like the Gen X or Y or baby boomers did. To me its nothing but oil changes, tire changes, and a lifetime of direct mail spam about my "warranty" running out or the latest bullshit deal from herpo derpersons car and truck supercenter. Its having to strap myself to an insurance company that will subrogate everything. A car just means I put up with expensive parking, gridlock traffic, tickets, and ridiculous gas prices until it dies on a hot day alongside the freeway.
what i do value is public transit. affordable busses that run every 20 minutes and light rail systems that give me time to do shit I actually care about, like browse slashdot and work. I already have a device that lets me use google or apple or whatever I need, but to strap it to a 2000 pound haggared burro doesnt help.

Re:apple and google are missing the point. (3, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#47263407)

Maybe Google and apple know this about you, and also realize that you aren't their target market for this particular development...
That's right millennial, it isn't always about you... Some times it is about Gen X, Y, or the Boomers...

Better still, Gen X and the boomers have disposable income, and have demonstrated their ability to dispose of it for the most frivolous of items...

So you know that there is a reason behind what I'm saying when I say SHUT UP DIRTY HIPPIE! the grown ups are talking about how to blow your inheritance.

Re:apple and google are missing the point. (1)

drinkypoo (153816) | about 4 months ago | (#47263901)

Better still, Gen X and the boomers have disposable income, and have demonstrated their ability to dispose of it for the most frivolous of items...

That is true only for a tiny subset of them. The rest are in massive debt like everyone else.

Re:apple and google are missing the point. (1)

Wovel (964431) | about 4 months ago | (#47264131)

WTF is with all this generation naming crap. It is silly. When all we could come up with was Generation X we should have stopped.Now we have Millenials. WTF is a Millenial? The age range (according to Wikipedia) is people around 13 to 35 (Other sites place the range as 22-32 which seems a lot more reasonable). How does that mean anything? They have nothing at all in common. The GP post referred to Millennial and Generation Y as two different things. Everywhere else says they are the same thing. Which is it?

I somehow ended up in X. I have kids in Y, Z and whatever comes next. I was 6 when Y started and I did not have any kids until I was 22. Kids born when I was 6 have little in common with my son. People making all these presumptions about people based on these silly generation labels is ridiculous.

Just because the goofy GP can't pay his bills and prefers public transportation is an anecdote not a trend.

Re:apple and google are missing the point. (1)

drinkypoo (153816) | about 4 months ago | (#47264223)

Just because the goofy GP can't pay his bills and prefers public transportation is an anecdote not a trend.

Right, I agree with that. But I also disagree that a lot of people have a lot of money. A small handful of people have a lot of money. A lot of people have a little money. Still more people have basically no money, and almost all of these people have a lot of debt. We've seen that trends in the USA are towards efficiency. People are buying less PCs than they used to, and more pocket-sized devices. But people like to buy new stuff, they would buy new PCs even if they don't need them if they were bleeding money. Expensive new car sales are down in general, and most manufacturers have cars lying around at ports. Etc.

I love functional public transportation myself, but I haven't seen any in so long I've forgotten what it looked like.

Re: apple and google are missing the point. (1)

Namarrgon (105036) | about 4 months ago | (#47267037)

Gen X here, have a car, not bleeding money, would still rather decent public transport - and a subscription to a cheap autonomous taxi service.

Re:apple and google are missing the point. (2)

tlhIngan (30335) | about 4 months ago | (#47263603)

I dont know about other slashdotters, but Millenials like myself cant afford a brand new car, end of discussion. Years of college loans have ruined our credit score and what little we are saving is going directly toward maintaining the vehicle we already unfortunately own. For a bit less than a hundred dollars though, I can get a used car stereo and a wiring kit that lets me play music from a USB stick and over BlueTooth from my phone. If i cant afford that, I can just put my ear buds in.

You don't need a new car to have CarPlay and this. There are CarPlay decks coming out that can be retrofitted into your existing car. I think initially the licensing of CarPlay got that confused, but Pioneer has CarPlay decks available for purchase soon. So besides the integration inside new vehicles, retrofits and upgrades are possible.

And please don't drive with earbuds. Not only is it illegal in most places to drive like that (if you have Bluetooth, just get a regular Bluetooth speaker or something), but it really cuts down your situation awareness.

As for not valuing a car - you are quite correct in that the car is no longer a means to itself (like the computer isn't a means to itself these days), but just a thing. Quite a few car manufacturers are seeing the hurt on that as traditional showy and flashy cars that target the typical group don't sell as well. Instead sales go towards practical cars that are easy on gas, have all the whiz-bang they like, and are generally cheap. And even they don't get used as much since public transport is preferred.

Re:apple and google are missing the point. (2)

Anubis IV (1279820) | about 4 months ago | (#47263671)

I don't need it, so no one does.

FTFY

Just because you're not the target market doesn't mean others aren't. And while public transit is a nice idea, it isn't practical for everyone. The fact is, most of the US urban centers were built with personal transportation in mind, not public transportation, so cars make the most sense for the most people, and automated cars seems to be the future there. As such, getting into this market seems to make a lot of sense.

Re:apple and google are missing the point. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#47263769)

, I can just put my ear buds in.

NO YOU CAN'T!!!

The second you do that you can no longer hear traffic, and you become a danger to everyone else on the road. You deserve to die in the accident you will inevitably cause.

Re:apple and google are missing the point. (2)

Wovel (964431) | about 4 months ago | (#47264015)

College loans have very little impact on your credit score unless you are not making payments...

Re:apple and google are missing the point. (1)

schlachter (862210) | about 4 months ago | (#47264501)

It's pretty foolish to take on large amounts of debt to fund college, especially those who end up going to middling universities or major in degrees that aren't going to land them $60K/yr plus salaries.

Re:apple and google are missing the point. (1)

Uberbah (647458) | about 4 months ago | (#47265347)

It's pretty foolish to take on large amounts of debt to fund college

Then you don't go to college unless your parents are well off enough to pay the bill. Which is a feature, not a bug, for some people.

Re:apple and google are missing the point. (1)

schlachter (862210) | about 4 months ago | (#47265739)

That's one way, but there are other options...if people really want to force it

Go on scholarship, even if the school is not your top choice.
Go to community college and live at home, then transfer after two years to a local university...and still live at home if you can.
Get a job that will pay your tuition while you go to school part time (many will)
Get a job and pay your own tuition while you go to school part time
Join the military so they will fund your education

Anyways...most people shouldn't be going to college...most people should be apprenticing or going to vocational schools.

Re:apple and google are missing the point. (1)

Uberbah (647458) | about 4 months ago | (#47266817)

Go on scholarship

Doesn't come close to paying for tuition + living expenses. Even athletes with full rides take on student debt to support themselves, since they can't have jobs and aren't paid for putting asses in the seats. The kids selling pop corn and hot dogs in the concessions stands do, though.

Go to community college

Which blocks you from having a high level career as a doctorate in science, engineering, or medicine. Which again, is a feature for Social Darwinists - gotta keep the riff raff out.

live at home

Because everyone lives next to a high quality but cheap school.

Get a job that will pay your tuition while you go to school part time
Get a job and pay your own tuition while you go to school part time

See first response.

Join the military so they will fund your education

And there it is. Want an education, hand your life over (quite literally in some cases) to support the Capitalist Empire.

Anyways...most people shouldn't be going to college...most people should be apprenticing or going to vocational schools.

Heaven forbid the proles move beyond their place. If you mother was a burger flipper, you'll be a burger flipper.

Re:apple and google are missing the point. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#47264649)

While you've described my situation too, you and I are not the target. Toyota and Honda and Kia and Scion are selling record amounts of cars to young people, even if it does not include you or me.

Re:apple and google are missing the point. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#47264699)

I dont know about other slashdotters, but Millenials like myself cant afford a brand new car, end of discussion.

Well myself, being a Millenial, can afford to buy a brand new car so I bought one so I guess the discussion isn't over.

Years of college loans have ruined our credit score and what little we are saving is going directly toward maintaining the vehicle we already unfortunately own.

After I completed my PhD completely debt free, I decided it was no longer work throwing money at my old car.

I dont value a car.

I do value a car. That's why I bought the nicest sports car I could afford.

what i do value is public transit.

I value public transportation as well but I still want a car because I can't go for a pleasant sunday drive on public transportation.

Re:apple and google are missing the point. (1)

schlachter (862210) | about 4 months ago | (#47264815)

Same here. After finishing my undergrad with no debt (scholarship + job + a bit from parents), I went on to earn my MS (full ride) with $5K in debt, which I paid off after 3 months of working.

I also bought a nice sports car a couple of yrs later, although I'd give it up in a second for excellent public transport options.

There are alway unforeseen events that make it hard for people to repay loans, but people who take on more debt than they can handle are fools...and I don't like that my tax money goes towards bailing them out when I'm working hard and making sacrifices to make the right decision with my money.

Re:apple and google are missing the point. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#47265323)

That's real interesting, because I'm a "millennial" and outright own my car, have a motorcycle that I outright own as well for high MPG commuting and actually enjoying it, and am about to put 20% down on a house with over an acre of land, because I have a credit score of 800+ and can afford to without impacting my retirement savings at all.

Most "millennials" suffer from a lack of planning, not a lack of opportunity. Grow up.

Right. One system will own the market. (1)

jpellino (202698) | about 4 months ago | (#47263037)

Like it does with the cars themselves. Not.

Consumer = LOSE (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#47263045)

Am I the only one that thinks the 'car kit' and 'medical kit' endeavors for Google/Apple are a "everyone gets farked" proposition?

I installed several nav units, did the A/V thing in the car . . . and I was always totally frustrated by the lack of standardization of not only stock units (both hardware and software) but aftermarket.

If Apple/Google came up with an open standard that they both used, EVERYONE would use it, we could home brew, and it would be a win for the consumer.

Re:Consumer = LOSE (1)

Alan Shutko (5101) | about 4 months ago | (#47263249)

I don't agree. Apple has had an iPod integration protocol since 2005 [apple.com] which is supported by tons of OEM and aftermarket devices. That same protocol is still usable with the latest iPhone 5s and in iOS 8, nine years later. That protocol can even be used now to control third-party apps that are running, so I can pause and fast-forward just as I could if using the music app.

If Google makes a protocol that's simple for manufacturer's to adopt, and is suitably stable, that's good enough for me.

Re:Consumer = LOSE (2)

Lumpy (12016) | about 4 months ago | (#47263591)

Yet older BMW cars can not control a modern Iphone.

My wife's 525 has the old 30 pin and even with the legit apple adapter, it will not control the music app in the iphone.

Re:Consumer = LOSE (1)

Wovel (964431) | about 4 months ago | (#47264153)

Entirely possible BMW did not stick to the standard. If they did it would work. My 5s works on a pioneer deck with the 30 pin connector that is 10 or 12 years old.

Re:Consumer = LOSE (1)

MitchDev (2526834) | about 4 months ago | (#47263643)

"If Apple/Google came up with an open standard that they both used, EVERYONE would use it, we could home brew, and it would be a win for the consumer."

Which neither Apple, or Google (or any company) wants. They don't want home brew and a "win for the consumer". They want you to be locked into their solution and getting your hardware/software from THEM.

hooray! (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#47263147)

is it "Open" like Android or "Open" like goatse's asshole? Because I know it's not going to be "Open" like "Open Source".

Why not blackberry (1)

tapi0 (2805569) | about 4 months ago | (#47263413)

we are left to wonder whether it'll be Apple or Google that ends up owning the automotive market

Well QNX is still the #1 embedded system, and owned by Blackberry. They've demo'd full automotive interfaces (including dashboard, not just entertainment) and, I'm led to understand, CarPlay is currently running atop QNX - I doubt that ios or osx or a variant would be taken up by any car maker as an embedded system.

Regardless, wasn't there a recent survey that basically concluded that most Driver's really wanted car manufacturers to stop buggering around with in car entertainment - leave it at audio, navigation and hands free telephony and give up on all the trickery they're trying to employ to seem cool and attractive.

Projected (1)

phorm (591458) | about 4 months ago | (#47263451)

A "projected" OS sounds dumb to me. If you just want to get music from your phone to your stereo, then AD2P (bluetooth) works fine. For maps and other stuff, the phone can have a holster.

What I (and most people I know) want, is a stereo with a decent interface and functionality of a modern OS, without killing the phone's battery, and without needing a "phone" UI. That means maps, traffic updates, and music baked in. Let it tie in to my account so that I can purchase music and have it update the car's library whenever it has wireless (or 3G, I suppose) nearby. Let it have a GPS with Google Maps that updates automatically and is traffic-aware. It's OK if it pulls updates via the phone, but it shouldn't *require* the phone to work.

Most importantly, a dedicated OS means that there's still the ability to have a stereo-centric system that works with actual freakin' hardware knobs/buttons and not a bastardized touch interface for common controls like volume, prev/next, etc. Touch interfaces distract from driving, and also tend to have issues with certain types of weather (not to mention gloves in winter).

Dear Google..... (2)

Lumpy (12016) | about 4 months ago | (#47263575)

Just STOP.

you do NOT need to have a car specific OS, just fucking bring back "car mode" to Android. Android as it is works fantastic as a Infotainment OS once you disable the stupid screen timeout and add circuitry to wake/sleep based on car ignition status.

Better question (1)

MitchDev (2526834) | about 4 months ago | (#47263601)

Why do we even want these giant, built-in distractions in a vehicle when there's so many whiny and complaints about Distracted driving from hand-held devices?

Re:Better question (1)

the computer guy nex (916959) | about 4 months ago | (#47263921)

"Why do we even want these giant, built-in distractions in a vehicle when there's so many whiny and complaints about Distracted driving from hand-held devices?"

I agree. Give me a button on my steering wheel that integrates with Siri and that is all I need.

Re:Better question (0)

MitchDev (2526834) | about 4 months ago | (#47264055)

Siri is specific to Apple.
Locked in

Re:Better question (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#47265501)

And the person you are replying to could not care even a tiny bit less.

It's only "lock in" if you actually want to move away from it.

Re:Better question (2)

JudgeFurious (455868) | about 4 months ago | (#47265579)

And for some of us that's just fine. I've found nothing particularly problematic about being locked into Apple.

Yeah, I'll sit this war out. (1)

zerofoo (262795) | about 4 months ago | (#47263617)

I can't afford to buy a new car every 18 months to keep up with the A.D.D. that exists in the mobile product arena.

I'll buy in when the SAE adopts a standard protocol interface for in-car infotainment. For now, bluetooth does me just fine.

Re:Yeah, I'll sit this war out. (1)

MachineShedFred (621896) | about 4 months ago | (#47265519)

Good thing Pioneer and Kenwood have already announced CarPlay head units for Q3 then, and I'm sure when we're talking about something Android based that isn't vapor, they'll announce that too.

Don't need to replace the car, just replace the box in the dash.

Just me? (1)

digitalPhant0m (1424687) | about 4 months ago | (#47263679)

Google is working on software to complete with Apple's CarPlay

I'm sure glad they're working together.

So in 5 years... (1)

Torp (199297) | about 4 months ago | (#47263737)

... I'll have to pay extra to get a car without a fucking touch screen?

Re:So in 5 years... (1)

LeadSongDog (1120683) | about 4 months ago | (#47264021)

No, in 5 years you'll have to pay extra to have Google drive the car go to where you want, stop, and unlock the doors to let you out. Decline to pay extra and you'll be delivered to the drive-through shopping mall that bids highest for your eyeballs. Or perhaps direct to the soylent green^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^Hrecycling plant....

Apple Cars (1)

ThatsNotPudding (1045640) | about 4 months ago | (#47264103)

We'll obviously learn details soon enough, but for now, we are left to wonder whether it'll be Apple or Google that ends up owning the automotive market.

Oh, yes; I'm sure Apple will cover the entire market, all the way from your average Bugatti down to economy cars like Audi and even BMW!

See you in Court (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#47264961)

Not only will you be able to sue the auto marker, you could sue Apple or Google, when you are in a serious accident. Don't think someone won't try.

And MS Sync is nowhere to be found (1)

jstroebe (921953) | about 4 months ago | (#47265151)

Microsoft has had a pretty cool system in cars for a while, MS Sync. Yet much like their initial smart phone line (think Windows Pocket PC Phone), it felt like they put a half ass effort in and never did anything to push it forward. I can see this happening again, only to have them try to play catch up later, with the 'Surface Radio'
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