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Age Discrimination In the Tech Industry

Soulskill posted about 3 months ago | from the get-off-my-lawn dept.

Technology 370

Presto Vivace writes: Fortune has an article about increasingly overt age discrimination in the tech industry. Quoting: "It's a widely accepted reality within the technology industry that youth rules. But at least part of the extreme age imbalance can be traced back to advertisements for open positions that government regulators say may illegally discriminate against older applicants. Many tech companies post openings exclusively for new or recent college graduates, a pool of candidates that is overwhelmingly in its early twenties. ... 'In our view, it's illegal,' Raymond Peeler, senior attorney advisor at the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission, the federal agency that enforces workplace discrimination laws said about the use of 'new grad' and 'recent grad' in job notices. 'We think it deters older applicants from applying.'" Am I the only one who thinks many of the quality control issues and failed projects in the tech industry can be attributed to age discrimination?

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Families come first (4, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 months ago | (#47292153)

Older people have families, they come first. The young have very little in the way of responsibilities and have yet to learn their many extra hours working for someone else count for very little at the end of the day.

Re:Families come first (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 months ago | (#47292195)

What? Group X deserves Y for any reason Z? How about: 'Fratboys with Ferraris have car manufacturers and dealers, they come first. All those people and jobs depending on them.'

Nobody deserves anything, particularly not for the responsibilities they chose (hopefully) to make. The only person who "deserves" the job is the most capable person for it.

Re:Families come first (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 months ago | (#47292271)

In reality, neither - older people or the best for the job - get the job. Because if it were the most capable for the job, then new college grads would never get hired, would they?

It takes a couple of years experience to become good and productive.

The truth of the hiring in tech is that its capricious and based on fads - firms are lemmings.

Some big currently successful corp starts basing its hiring on some metric someone pulls out of their ass, and then everyone does it in the hopes of aping the success of that firm.

Google and Microsoft has fucked up hiring for everyone with their idiotic interview questions that they ended up getting rid of anyway [newyorker.com] .

See, the fact is companies have no clue how to get the best. They make metrics up, buy cute tests, hire consultants with their Ouija boards or whatever, and follow what currently successful companies are doing - who are also pulling shit out of their asses.

The best way to hire? Get a development manager with a long contact list in his smart phone and have him start calling people he knows can deliver and throw money at them.

Never fails.

If you or your company can't get "qualified people", it's because YOU suck - pay too low, having HR recruit or just being lemmings and following the herd on how to hire.

Re:Families come first (1, Interesting)

penix1 (722987) | about 3 months ago | (#47292431)

Wow... Where to begin... Well, let's start from the top...

In reality, neither - older people or the best for the job - get the job. Because if it were the most capable for the job, then new college grads would never get hired, would they?

You started off great but then made the assumption that all college grads would never get hired. It all depends on the college they graduated from. MIT, Stanford, Harvard and Yale graduates don't have nearly the difficulty getting employment as other grads. Now the question you need to ask is why? It boils down to colleges failing in their responsibility to the community they serve. Failing to teach the skills necessary for success.

It takes a couple of years experience to become good and productive.

Poppycock! It only takes years because the colleges are failing at producing the quality employee and the company ends up having to re-teach what the grad was supposed to learn in school. Worse, they now may have to unlearn bad habits that the student was taught in that rotten school.

Some big currently successful corp starts basing its hiring on some metric someone pulls out of their ass, and then everyone does it in the hopes of aping the success of that firm.

When you have 5,000 applicants for 5 positions you have to have some way of telling those that must lose why. Especially since you have agencies like the EEO looking over your shoulder.

Google and Microsoft has fucked up hiring for everyone with their idiotic interview questions that they ended up getting rid of anyway.

The bigger the employer, the more scrutiny they come under. Again, you need some metric to weed out the chaff in a way that won't get you sued in any of a thousand different ways. Some metrics work, some don't.

See, the fact is companies have no clue how to get the best. They make metrics up, buy cute tests, hire consultants with their Ouija boards or whatever, and follow what currently successful companies are doing - who are also pulling shit out of their asses.

Again, it is trying to work within the hiring laws that skew the tables with things like affirmative action How many times has /. had stories about the gender gap or other minority in tech? I see at least a story a week including this story. All these lead to a perception that those groups need to be given preference even over better qualified applicants solely to meet the numbers.

The best way to hire? Get a development manager with a long contact list in his smart phone and have him start calling people he knows can deliver and throw money at them.

Never fails.

Yet when government does that you get upset??? Throwing money at a problem isn't only foolish it is a quick way to the poor house. What you are calling for is cronyism or nepotism where the only way to get a job is to be in that one person's contact list. That's no way to hire someone and you really don't know why that person may be in that contact list.

If you or your company can't get "qualified people", it's because YOU suck - pay too low, having HR recruit or just being lemmings and following the herd on how to hire.

Way to put your head in the sand and ignore the fact that the universities and colleges are failing in their task of producing qualified students. Or that the current hiring laws are skewed to favor less qualified people simply because they fit a diversity metric. Way to put the failure of the job seekers to manage their expectations on the employer with them wanting to be paid the same as the CEO on their first day.

Until we fix our education system to produce students that can actually serve the communities they are in, stop pitting one group against another such as we have in this story, we will continue to see the types of stories on /. that we are seeing today with no real solution to the root of the problem in sight.

Re:Families come first (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 months ago | (#47292519)

Until we fix our education system to produce students that can actually serve the communities they are in, stop pitting one group against another such as we have in this story, we will continue to see the types of stories on /. that we are seeing today with no real solution to the root of the problem in sight.

What a pile of BS... So what do you suggest? Should the unversities start adding Visual Studio courses, iOS development courses, or whatever the latest trend is? That's devaluation of the education. That's giving the students the fish, instead of teaching them fishing. And all of this because some companies want directly employable, run of the mill and (arguably) cheap workforce?

Thanks but I'll pass on such universities. Since I'm paying the bill of my education, I'll go for universities that focus on providing a solid background which will make me employable in the long-run.

Re:Families come first (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 months ago | (#47292323)

If my BMW dies I could give a fuck. That's incentive to work harder and I am good at my job.

But my mother is dying of MS and dementia, so I'm not supposed to care or take time off to help my father with a job far more difficult than you seem to be able to imagine.

Christ, I'd hate to be your parents. I guess you could "choose" not to be their son/daughter.

Re:Families come first (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 months ago | (#47292199)

many extra hours working for someone else count for very little at the end of the day.

except for, you know, the money that you earn while working all those hours. You're going to need a pile of money if you want to convince an individual of the female kind to play host to your spawn, if you ever want to start that family.

Re:Families come first (0, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 months ago | (#47292285)

You also need a big penis.

Re:Families come first (2, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 months ago | (#47292293)

A pile of money can pay for your penis enlargement.

Re:Families come first (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 months ago | (#47292325)

except for, you know, the money that you earn while working all those hours.

They are- I assume- referring to *unpaid* overtime in salaried individuals. This can- and sometimes does- go up to ridiculous levels, but is an issue primarily when it's a frequent- rather than occasional one-off- occurrence and this way by intentional design on the part of management, regardless of what they get the peons on the receiving end to believe.

Which is of course made worse (4, Insightful)

NotSoHeavyD3 (1400425) | about 3 months ago | (#47292515)

So this is made worse by the fact that any time anybody has actually checked they've found that long term overtime does not actually work. (IE you don't actually get any more work out of people by having them work more than 40 hours a week for long periods of time.) Us older workers (30+) already know this and don't play this game because it's pointless.(And apparently has been known for about a century so it's not a new concept.) However managers still want you to do that, mostly because far too many managers are completely stupid. (Something I feel justified in saying because I've seen way too many mind bogglingly stupid decisions from managers.)

Re: Families come first (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 months ago | (#47292383)

a salaried job: you haven't had one yet

Re:Families come first (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 months ago | (#47292259)

I found the opposite at my work - the older guys stayed back at least an hour on average, the young ones were out on the dot every day without fail.

Re:Families come first (-1, Troll)

mrbester (200927) | about 3 months ago | (#47292345)

Because the older guys can fix the shit the younger guys made in a rush to get to the bars before they fill up.

Re:Families come first (4, Interesting)

overshoot (39700) | about 3 months ago | (#47292367)

Older people have families, they come first.

Interesting definition of "older." Rather revealing, in fact, that your horizon only extends to those of us with kids at home.

Leaving aside the fact that not all of us ever had kids, the most discriminated-against group are those whose children have moved out. Who, unlike 20-somethings, don't spend their off-duty time trying to get families. Oh, yeah -- that.

Re:Families come first (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 months ago | (#47292385)

Wow thank goodness there is someone who doesn't fall hook line and sinker for the hideous work ethic encrusted with the most vile hubris that is now required for employment..

Re:Families come first (4, Interesting)

gatkinso (15975) | about 3 months ago | (#47292425)

What you say is true. I have left work either on time or sometimes early to take care of my kids.

But my younger colleagues often times show up late (or not at all) with hangovers, my piss will test 100% clean and many of theirs will not, and I spend my time at wok actually working as opposed to a lot of socializing and what not.

So choose your poison.

Re:Families come first (-1, Troll)

TheGratefulNet (143330) | about 3 months ago | (#47292647)

your piss is clean?

somehow, that seems useful to you.

to me, its a damned strange thing to brag about. but whatever, uhm, floats your boat...

showing up incapable of doing work is one thing. but are you suggesting that your 'clean piss' (is it frosty, btw?) makes you a better person?

I hate people like you. you think a 'war on drugs' makes sense. you obviously don't think for yourself; how on earth can you be a good engineer when you simply follow a party line and 'do what you're told' without question?

independant thinkers are much better designers and coders. and I hate to break it to you, but all the good designers I've met in the bay area would not have 'clean piss' to use your little phrase. and they are world-class engineers, scientists, mathematicians and highly technical people in their field.

22 (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 months ago | (#47292167)

When he was 22 his future looked bright
But he's nearly 30 now and he's out of a job
I see that look in his face, he's got that look in his eye
He's thinking how did I get here and wondering why

It's sad but it's true how the industry says his life is already over
There is nothing to do and there is nothing to say

Re:22 (-1, Troll)

reanjr (588767) | about 3 months ago | (#47292189)

If you're out of work at 30 after working for 8 years in the tech industry, you suck at your job.

Re:22 (5, Insightful)

JockTroll (996521) | about 3 months ago | (#47292207)

Most likely, if you're out of work at 30 after working 8 years in the tech industry, you've been replaced by a younger worker who's cheaper and more flexible. IT in particular has no need for talent, know-how and experience, you shovel fresh meat in at one end and shit comes out of the end. That's why computers are for chumps.

Re:22 (2)

buddyglass (925859) | about 3 months ago | (#47292577)

There's no reason for the younger worker to be cheaper. If, at age 30 with 8 years experience, you're not actually worth more than someone age 22 with zero years experience then why in the world would you expect to be paid more?

Re:22 (2, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 months ago | (#47292209)

If you're unwilling to relocate from Indiana to India to find work in the tech industry, you suck at your job.

Re:22 (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 months ago | (#47292235)

Nowadays you're lucky to get a real job at 22. Most people have to settle for barista at Starbucks (if they can even get that)

Re:22 (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 months ago | (#47292255)

There are waiting lists for janitorial jobs. You can submit an application but the result is the same as not submitting an application.

Re:22 (2)

MacTO (1161105) | about 3 months ago | (#47292329)

That depends. There are various reasons why someone can be out of work. Lack of skill or a poor fit for the job are definitely in the mix. Yet companies definitely go out of business, companies definitely downsize (where getting axed may have more to do with the businesses priorities than your skills), and a change in management at any level may mean job loss for professional or unprofessional reasons. Then there are people who simply want to change careers, because of job satisfaction or advancement rather than because of their ability to perform the job. The latter is definitely the hardest to contend with since you probably don't have the contacts that recognize your abilities or because the people in one part of the industry may not see your skills as transferrable to their part of the industry.

Re:22 (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 months ago | (#47292545)

Lily Allen props :)

You are the only one. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 months ago | (#47292177)

Am I the only one who thinks many of the quality control issues and failed projects in the tech industry can be attributed to age discrimination?

Yes, you are.

Re:You are the only one. (1)

geoskd (321194) | about 3 months ago | (#47292221)

Yes, you are.

No He's not.

Re:You are the only one. (2)

PolygamousRanchKid (1290638) | about 3 months ago | (#47292487)

Yes, you are.

No He's not.

Listen, this isn't an argument . . .

Re:You are the only one. (2)

J Story (30227) | about 3 months ago | (#47292241)

Am I the only one who thinks many of the quality control issues and failed projects in the tech industry can be attributed to age discrimination?

Yes, you are.

You'd be one of the younguns, I suppose, and are illustrating his point.

Those fresh out of uni have yet to see the executive suite cut back on (or eliminate) quality assurance because it's "too costly" and it "slows down development". You believe that every problem you see has never occurred before, especially to someone as smart as you, and you know that your solution shows your absolute genius. Management loves you because you believe whatever they tell you.

Re:You are the only one. (1)

Megol (3135005) | about 3 months ago | (#47292353)

This submitter(?) promotes age discrimination too! In many cases the "younguns" will be better at the work than you are - just accept that.

Discrimination of any kind is just stupid - look at the individual and don't care of how old they are, how many children they have, where they come from or who they like to fuck. Look at communication skills, willingness to learn, relevant experience, social skills and in general suitability to the work task(s). Nothing else should matter.

Re:You are the only one. (2)

tylikcat (1578365) | about 3 months ago | (#47292405)

Not just willingness to learn, but active interest in continuing learning. ...and I've found a lack of that in older folks, true, but also in kids fresh out of uni.

Well yeah good luck to them (3, Interesting)

aepervius (535155) | about 3 months ago | (#47292179)

They go hiring for unexperimented people. I saw a lot of project sink and get stopped, or cost far more than they should have at compeltion, because the "young" devs have no experience, suffer the NIH syndrom, get enthiusiastic doing new stuff rather than limit themselves to what should be done, if you got for service layer concept screw it up, costing you time to refactor.

So yeah. Go ahead. Hire only youth. And lose money.

Speaking as a guy in his 40s... (3, Insightful)

Viol8 (599362) | about 3 months ago | (#47292181)

... I've encountered a tiny bit of what seemed like discrimination but then its hard to tell. Perhaps I just was just being a bit precious about it.

But what I do know is its horses for courses - younger people are (generally) better at thinking up new ideas/paradigms and novel ways to do things , older people are (generally) better at the detailed implementation of a system as they'll have encountered a lot if not most of the problems before and have X number of years experience

Re:Speaking as a guy in his 40s... (5, Interesting)

Runaway1956 (1322357) | about 3 months ago | (#47292201)

It really is best to have a mix of young and old. Youngsters come up with the new ideas, older people kick those ideas around, turn them upside down, examine them for flaws, toss them back to the kids. The kids then modify, improve, or even flush the idea down the toilet.

I've never had a job in which youth and experience weren't both valuable.

The manager who dismisses either youth, or experience, is setting himself up for failure.

Re:Speaking as a guy in his 40s... (2)

tigersha (151319) | about 3 months ago | (#47292289)

In my job the young one is arrogant, stuck in his ways. All his life sat in mom's basement hacking in C, and used to claim that he refused to program in C++ because it is too high-level for him.

Now, because of management decree, he is in a Rails job. His first words when reporting was "I have never really developed in OO languages before". Hates Windows. Hates Adobe. Hates any Linux other than Gentoo. Hates PDF files (in the publishing industry). Hates mobile devices (but does web dev). Hates Wireless LAN.

Problem is that what he hates he never works with. And that makes him incompetent.

Management refused to reassign him. Now, after 3 years of trying, I am about to leave in frustration. So it goes both ways.

Re:Speaking as a guy in his 40s... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 months ago | (#47292327)

Hates any Linux other than Gentoo.

Must be an oldish sort of young one if he still uses Gentoo. All the fresh out of college young guys I meet these days use Arch.

Re:Speaking as a guy in his 40s... (2)

thetoadwarrior (1268702) | about 3 months ago | (#47292399)

Sure there are extreme case but there are also young people that think if it's not built in JS and no SQL then it's lame old man's code. These guys usually grow up to be that old guy so that problem can be reduced by not hiring the young guy with his hipster blinders on.

Re:Speaking as a guy in his 40s... (4, Insightful)

AmiMoJo (196126) | about 3 months ago | (#47292257)

It has nothing to do with the relative merits of experience or fresh ideas, it's just about wages. Older people demand higher wages to pay for their mortgages and families. Younger people will work stupid ours on unpaid overtime because they want to get to the same position as the older ones.

Most companies don't value experience or things like code quality and architectural elegance. They just want some crapware churned out at the lowest possible cost.

That is not the whole truth (5, Informative)

brunes69 (86786) | about 3 months ago | (#47292429)

While wages I am sure do play a factor, as former a hiring manager I can tell you the GP is 100% correct. Older and younger programmers both have their pros and cons. Younger programmers are nearly always more up to date on the latest technologies and trends and have an innate ability to "churn out" fairly good quality code at a lightning fast rate. However, they are nearly always inexperienced compared to their more seasoned peers, and make a lot of what I would call "elementary mistakes" when it comes to architecture. They also have a tendency to *always* want to use the latest and greatest tech instead of the tried and true, which is not always a good thing.

Older workers have the opposite pros and cons. They tend to take a bit longer to finish a project, but that project is usually of higher quality and better architecture because they have been around the block and know how to code for the long term. They also like to stick with the tried and true technology because they know it, and it works.

Ideal teams have a healthy mix of both young fresh employees and older seasoned ones. A good manager knows how to create this team and get them to work together to bring out the best of the young and old, and how to get the seasoned professionals to help teach the young employees about enterprise architecture, while the young employees can help keep the older employees fresh and up to date on the latest technology trends.

Re:That is not the whole truth (1)

BlackHawk-666 (560896) | about 3 months ago | (#47292543)

Spot on.

Re:That is not the whole truth (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 months ago | (#47292681)

Nice in theory, but that's not what's actually happening on the ground.

Re:Speaking as a guy in his 40s... (1)

TheGratefulNet (143330) | about 3 months ago | (#47292671)

all you said is true.

it about wages, its about control, its about abuse, its about telling the kids to work longer and knowing they won't refuse.

its never been about quality. the industry wants speed now, they don't care about quality.

you can tell who is being honest and who is not. its like the openoffice concept; ceo's and hr's are saying that its 'to attract younger players' but in fact, its about cramming more people into the same space (saving money) and being able to 'watch' and micromanage them. its nothing about making the environment better; in fact, its noisier and people get less done and come home with more cold/flu due to not having dividers or cubes.

if a ceo or hr person is talking about open offices and they say its because it will make things better, they are LYING. well, half lying; it makes things better only for them.

Speaking as a guy in his 40s... (2)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 months ago | (#47292319)

Ãyounger people are (generally) better at thinking up new ideas/paradigms and novel ways to do thingsÃ(TM)

That hasn't been my experience. Sure, young people throw out lots of ideas, but most of those are bad ideas. If you need good ideas, you're better off hiring someone with a bit more experience and world wisdom.

But the real reasons tech companies prefer young people haven't got anything to do with competence anyway. 1) Young people are cheaper. 2) Young people are more easily pressured into working long unpaid overtime. 3) Young people tend to do what they're told, even when futile. Managers want to discover the futility of their ideas by pouring a few hundred man hours into a failure, rather than through a careful explanation by a senior developer.

Re:Speaking as a guy in his 40s... (5, Insightful)

Trepidity (597) | about 3 months ago | (#47292445)

I'm young-ish (~30) myself and have also not seen a discernible creativity/novelty advantage among younger people. Among people I've worked with there's no clear trend with people in their 20s being more creative and coming up with more good new ideas than people in their 50s. A lot of great stuff comes from people who have enough background to actually spot an opportunity for innovation.

You can see that even at big tech companies. New ideas coming out of Google largely come from their older staff. There are a ton of 20-somethings at Google, but the major projects tend to come from people like Rob Pike (age 58), Peter Norvig (58), Ken Thompson (age 71), Lars Bak (age 49), etc.

Re:Speaking as a guy in his 40s... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 months ago | (#47292509)

There does seem to be some truth to the idea that young people are better at generating novel ideas, at least in some contexts. That's certainly the case with, for example, the age of scientists when they demonstrate theories contradictory to pervious theories -- almost all come from people under 35.

Now that's not necessarily a big advantage in all jobs at all times. Often you're not looking for a way to re-define the whole system, and wouldn't want the risk even if it might work -- often incremental improvements would be much more valuable to a company. So it's not necessarily something you should select for in employees.

In any case you're hurting yourself by reducing anyone to a set of population statistics. Some old people are useless. Some young people are useless. Even if one of the groups has a higher likelihood of uselessness (and there's a good chance your assumptions aren't true in the first place) that fact doesn't tell you anything about whether the person in front of you is useless, and you shouldn't pretend that it does.

Re:Speaking as a guy in his 40s... (4, Funny)

PolygamousRanchKid (1290638) | about 3 months ago | (#47292495)

"I will not make age an issue of this campaign. I am not going to exploit, for political purposes, my opponent's youth and inexperience" -- Ronald Reagan

30 and still doing six figure jobs here (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 months ago | (#47292197)

I can see where the problems occur between ageism vs new people. I'm not going to reveal who I am for fear of backlash, but if you're going to be an unimaginative little shit who thinks learning stops when you graduate college, then you're going to end up with a dead end job or even worse... out of a job for those young kids people keep complaining about.

Let me tell you something, I hit six figures ages ago and keep thinking to myself what my goals are in life. At first my goal was 100k, then 200, etc etc. You don't have to go your whole life before retirement working sub-100k jobs in rural areas, there are plenty of opportunities to get 100+k in any area if you're skilled enough and have the business skills.

To those who are bitching about being too old and getting the boot, grow a fucking pair and stop being fucking idiots.

Re:30 and still doing six figure jobs here (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 months ago | (#47292213)

there are plenty of opportunities to get 100+k in any area if you're skilled enough and have the blowjob skills.

FTFY

Re:30 and still doing six figure jobs here (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 months ago | (#47292245)

If you're female and attractive, blowing the boss is always an option. There's no such thing as morality anymore.

If you're a dude, it's less likely unless your boss is one of the anti-gay, in the closet, "family values" Republicans.

Re:30 and still doing six figure jobs here (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 months ago | (#47292273)

You forgot the female boss, you sexist clod. Now lick me!

Re:30 and still doing six figure jobs here (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 months ago | (#47292299)

How many females do you know that I can give a blowjob to? Go lick yourself you stupid PC motherfucker

Re:30 and still doing six figure jobs here (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 months ago | (#47292337)

The clit is too elusive for you? How hard does it have to be to find something front and center?

Re: 30 and still doing six figure jobs here (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 months ago | (#47292497)

The Coalition for the Liberation of Itinerant Tree Dwellers is often very hard to find, even for the Clit Commander!

30 and hit 100k "ages ago" (3, Insightful)

Maxwell (13985) | about 3 months ago | (#47292633)

I hope you are better at coding than you are at math...your shit attitude will catch up with you and you are exactly the kind of unemployable 40 year old demanding outrageous money I see every day. And never hire.

makes no sense to me (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 months ago | (#47292203)

I'm 44 and entirely self-taught (degree in a non CS science), but even so, I am continually amazed at how stupid my colleagues are. I can't even imagine ruling out older candidates.

Then again... I only respect about 5% of my colleagues regardless of age. (I am well respected).

Now that I look at it, all the people I respect are about my age.

Re:makes no sense to me (3, Insightful)

Anne Thwacks (531696) | about 3 months ago | (#47292521)

I can't even imagine ruling out older candidates.

A lot of the problem is people (PHBs) who do not want to employ someone under them who is older than them, because they are embarassed about:

A) Giving instructions to an older person

B) Giving (probably stupid) instructions to someone who understands the issues.

No one is going to own up to these factors.

Sometimes there is a "good" reason to hire the inexperienced. The company maya ctually require people who have not got the experience to spot mass corruption, When the company collapses, it is often necessary to be able to claim "no one on the team saw it coming" despite the fact that anyone who had ever been in an IT project before knows that version control is not just a good idea. (etc)

If you see an empty barrel - look for pork bellies!

Age or wage ? (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 months ago | (#47292205)

Age discrimination or wage discrimination ? the tendency to hire young against experienced is due to two factors : Experienced people are expensive and worst, they are experienced in life, not likely trapped in rat race and quick to detect management tricks.

Being 30 and 40 (1)

loufoque (1400831) | about 3 months ago | (#47292211)

You want to hire people that are between 30 and 40.
They usually are young enough to be dynamic but old enough to be sufficiently experimented.

Age discrimination is a myth! (0)

SpzToid (869795) | about 3 months ago | (#47292227)

Age discrimination is a myth I tell you. Or else it would have been discussed on Slashdot before. Really. /SARCASM. I'd try and structure a LMGTFY.com link for your benefit, but seeing as how you all are standing on my lawn...

Highly relevant but still slow newsday stuff. But hey, what about this VERY relevant NEWS instead(?), released on a Friday afternoon no less!: http://slashdot.org/submission... [slashdot.org]

How can I take this seriously (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 months ago | (#47292239)

Whenever I hear complaints about age discrimination I can't help but think of the massive hypocrisy - the ones complaining about it are the only ones with any legal protection, as ineffectual as it may be. When they're in the defacto advantaged state and in the positions of power it isn't a matter of trying to care but trying not to mock.

Captcha: entitles

This AGAIN? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 months ago | (#47292243)

Look. The only discrimination is your lack of relevant skills, Dino. If that's discriminatino then so be it, Dinos. May I suggest selling insurance, or something else in sales, Dino? Perhaps a slashdot editor position is opening, Dino. Keep your hopes up, Dino, but don't blame others for your incompetence.

Re:This AGAIN? (1)

Anne Thwacks (531696) | about 3 months ago | (#47292551)

You are partly right, but completely wrong. Older/more experienced people may have less confidence in their skills because they know that there is more to progamming than copying "hello world" rprograms from the text book, and expect a rather deeper knowledge of both language and application domain.

Of course they know, because they have done it and got the t-shirt, that you can learn the syntax of a new language by reading a couple of sides of A4. However, they also know it takes a few years to get familiar with the language gochas and the compiler bugs.

Dont expect a job optimising SQL from me! And stay away from my Cobol compiler.

I assume you know the use of a lawn by now,

The companies are merely hindring themselves (1)

dutchwhizzman (817898) | about 3 months ago | (#47292261)

By severely limiting the type of candidate they are willing to consider, the companies are limiting themselves to a very strict model that will not allow for "star performers" to do well in that company. They will be limited to quickly going through new hires and only keeping the mediocre ones. The bad ones get fired and the good ones move on to greener pastures. This will make the whole group perform below average and recruiting costs will remain high. I don't see a need to regulate this, since the job market tends to regulate itself quite well because of this. By the way, this isn't limited to age, but also applies to gender, education, nationality and ethnicity.

the other way (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 months ago | (#47292283)

When I was job searching I saw a lot of requirements:
"must have 6+ years experience in [something]."

This is, of course descriminating against anyone who is not old enough to have worked 6 years yet.

Re:the other way (1)

Anne Thwacks (531696) | about 3 months ago | (#47292571)

Except that the fact that [something] was only released 18 months ago indicates that the HR department has only a limited grasp of the concepts of numbers, dates and buzzwords.

Alternatively they want someone who will lie a lot about timescales, or is not easily bored.

Age discrimination ? Or (lack of) experience ? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 months ago | (#47292287)

If "new grad" is not permissable, than neither should "must have 5 years experience" be.

There are a few things that go together with both. The latter implies knowledge. The former not having any hang-ups about certain methods.

Although knowledge is good, not (anymore) being able to choose the best (or even an innovative) method (as opposed to a known one) could cost a company its chance on becoming a, or even stay a leading (profitable) player.

Viewed from that perspective its not an age problem, but a "most effective to the problem-set at hand" one. And pardon me, but are we going to also force companies to accept welders when the problem-set is related to carpentry ?

And there is ofcourse the old saying that correlation isn't the same as causation. The mere fact that most 'new grads' are predominantly in their early twenties isn't discrimination, but just the result of the education system.

Caveat:
Yes, I'm aware that 'new grads' can be translated as 'young'. The slashdot article doesn't touch that though (the linked article is 'members only', and thus cannot be read)*.

*Maybe Slashdot should refrain from posting 'headlines' in which the linked articles are hidden behind certain locks (paywalled, membership, etc.)

I think that is mostly poor management (1)

dbIII (701233) | about 3 months ago | (#47292295)

Am I the only one who thinks many of the quality control issues and failed projects in the tech industry can be attributed to age discrimination?

I think those problems are due to poor management, but it could be said that filling a workplace exclusively with inexperienced people is a sign of poor management in itself. That can be seen especially where there is non-technical management and nobody with enough skills to advise them to put resources into quality checking or other items that are not immediately obvious to someone coming in from another field.

That's the best they could do? (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 months ago | (#47292301)

Is there some age discrimination going on? Probably, but you're still better off being an old white guy than a young woman or young black man.

Of all the shit they could going after - racism, sexism & the abuse of H-1Bs - targeting the hiring of new grads seems to be the dumbest possible way to shake things up.

I'm 63, I still work (4, Interesting)

hughbar (579555) | about 3 months ago | (#47292315)

This seems to come up a great deal here.

I'm from the UK which is probably [slightly] less dog-eat-dog than the USA also, I mainly work in a niche, [Perl] and I do contract work rather than permanent.

However I'm still working about as much as I want. I blew an interview recently, but I'm OK with that, since I performed pretty badly in it. I try and keep up and still enjoy computers and computing. So for my younger friends, and they are nearly all younger now:
  • - It helps to enjoy computing, not be in it 'just' for the [increasing illusory] big money
  • - Flexibility helps, the UK has a smaller square area than the US though
  • - Soft skills help, I'm a pretty medium programmer but an approachable person
  • - Niche skills often make a difference, everyone [except me] is an 'OK' Java person, for example
  • - It helps to look ahead to up-curve trends [as long as not hypeware], I learnt a lot of Javascript/Jquery quite 'early' for example
  • - The soft skills will help with the next job too, many of my 'new' contracts involve people I know somewhat, at least

That's my 2c of a euro, the html is badly formatted, but hey it's almost time for Sunday lunch.

The learning new trends is big (3, Insightful)

Sycraft-fu (314770) | about 3 months ago | (#47292637)

The biggest problem I notice with older tech workers (IT in my case) is lack of flexibility and lack of knowledge of how things are done currently. I work for a university so we have a good mix of ages. We have student workers that are 18-22ish, we have staff that are in their 20s, 30s (I'm 34), 40s, 50s, 60, and even 70s. We have pretty good employment stability, being a state institution.

Now you see good and bad workers in all age groups. It isn't like all the young people are good (we get some dopey students sometimes) and the old people are bad. However what I notice is that when an older employee is not as good as they should be, it is often related to being behind the times.

We have a guy who's retiring, thankfully, that is like that. He's a good guy and he's not an idiot, but he's real stuck in his ways, and his ways are about 20 years out of date. He does not deal with new technology and methods very well. He wants to do everything how he did it in the 80s-90s, which just doesn't work so well now. I imagine he would have real trouble finding another job if he tried because of that.

So staying up to date on new trends is a really valuable thing. Doesn't mean you need to jump in to everything with both feet right away, but be up on what is happening, and learn it/use it if it is in demand. If you have the attitude of "this is the way we've always done it and there's no reason to change," then it won't be surprising if you can't find many positions.

It's not really about age... (5, Insightful)

rcharbon (123915) | about 3 months ago | (#47292321)

...it's about pay scales - employers figure recent grads will work for less.

Re:It's not really about age... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 months ago | (#47292651)

Agreed. I have the opposite problem because I'm young, highly experienced, and charge what I'm worth. I often get turned down for work due to my age if the interview is done in person, but as a highly skilled software engineer with over a decade of experience and 6 programming languages at my fingertips, I don't come cheap for someone of the age of 23.

Influential factors for hiring youngsters (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 months ago | (#47292333)

They know the latest buzzword infested, jargon ridden languages
The're cheap and will work for peanuts, or nothing at all.
They're fairly easy to push around
They don't mind if the specifications change every other day
They'll work insane hours
They don't know better
oh and
Young managers don't like managing folk older than themselves who may know too much about EVERYTHING.

And when they're burned out, they can be re-deployed to the call centre helpdesk to support the project they've been working on. They'll soon leave the company of their own accord.

Re:Influential factors for hiring youngsters (1)

Anne Thwacks (531696) | about 3 months ago | (#47292611)

Mod parent +1: over qualified

As a guy in his 60's (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 months ago | (#47292339)

I still enjoy the challenges of software engineering to solve intractable problems in large-scale systems. I believe I have been the "beneficiary" of agist discrimination, but can't prove it... So, I am currently looking for a new position. My wife, a government scientist (of my age), is still working at her position in a national laboratory.

Re:As a guy in his 60's (3, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 months ago | (#47292355)

And FWIW, I have learned multiple new programming languages and tools (PHP, Javascript, Hadoop, AWS, etc) over the past 3 years to where I was able to build a cell phone emulator in PHP, design and write code to capture and store 10 billion data points per day in a Hadoop HBase database in the Amazon cloud from 5000 servers world-wide, and reduce the time for QA to generate performance reports from days to hours. I was still fired for "performance issues"... And I was a 1-person band, with no backup or help. All the other developers in my group were in their 20's to 30's. Looks like a setup for failure to me!

Stamina (1, Funny)

gnupun (752725) | about 3 months ago | (#47292393)

If you were to compare the avg. lines of code generated by 100 programmers in age range 21 to 30 versus 100 programmers in age range 42 to 50, which one likely to win? The young ones probably, although their code quality may be inferior to the older group's code.

Programming can be compared to performance sports. You don't see many 50 year old swimmers, soccer players, or 100m sprinters. Programming is just the mental athletics version of these sports. If programmers above 50 years age, are not likely to get a decent job (other than management), they should receive a higher wage in their prime years, just like athletes, models/actors.

Managers and middle managers care a lot about output quantity and throughput for the least amount of dollars. Plus the older programmers are not skilled in the latest development tools/languages which change every 5-10 years. These factors are probably some of the reasons for the discrimination.

Re:Stamina (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 months ago | (#47292511)

What load of crap you speak.

IT Systems are getting more and more complicated. The older guys have the experiences to make these things work.
This was aptly demonstated last week then two of us old fogeys knew more about how to get a DR Failover to work properly than all the young CNAA/MS certified guys who set the thing up in the first place. The network failover was crap. It didn't work and they didn't have a clue about how to diagnose it let alone fix it.
We knew the effects their problems were causing our applications and moreover, we knew how to fix them. They didn't.
The two sites in this case were more than 1000 miles apart. The 'young dudes' couldn't even get DNS to work properly between the sites.

We are known in our company as the goto guys when there are serious interconnection or application issues. Nothing beats experience here.
Us old 'gits' are 61 and 65 respectively.
Sure we could retire tomorrow but I get a lot of job satisfaction from sorting out the crap left by the young engineers/developers.

The older folks write the salary cheques (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 months ago | (#47292341)

The youth only think that they are ruling. In reality, they are wage slaves.

Wheres my walker? (3, Insightful)

QA (146189) | about 3 months ago | (#47292375)

Full disclosure: I am 56 years old.

I've found over the years that a lot of smaller, family owned or privately run businesses will hire older personnel for the experience factor alone. Granted, I'm a Sysadmin, not a programmer.

The larger companies are shackled by company policy (written or unwritten) HR, fixed pay scales and so on. I do believe money comes in to play as younger can mean considerably cheaper, but if that person takes 3X longer to accomplish the task, how much are you really saving in the long run?

The company I've worked for the last 8 years has 50 employees, 11 servers, 65 workstations, laptops, phones, tablets, and so on. I'm also involved in special projects which I have time for because all our systems run smoothly. I can take time off without fear of something bad happening, barring hardware failure or user stupidity.

I tried hiring an assistant, but didn't have much luck. Anyone who could actually help me, and was knowledgeable were few and far between. I got lots of kids who "played with computers" but had no clue on AD, Domains, and so on. I was willing to pay 50k to start by the way.

Anyway, of course age discrimination exists, as does other forms of discrimination. It has simply moved below the surface whereas previously it was overt. I know many companies I have dealt with would hire me in an instant because they know my skill level, however I would have one Hell of a time on the open market at my age. I doubt I would make it past the HR drone.

Pete

Re:Wheres my walker? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 months ago | (#47292455)

bullshit.

I am a self-taught programmer and home sys-admin. If I were 25 and you were offering 50k, I would be your perfect assistant. I'm older than than that and earn a lot more than that now. I think you're not trying hard enough. Pick someone smart and curious with no training.

Discriminate me, and don't waste my time. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 months ago | (#47292389)

>Many tech companies post openings exclusively for new or recent college graduates, a pool of candidates that is overwhelmingly in its early twenties. ... 'In our view, it's illegal,'

So what are they going to do about it? If those companies cannot do that, then I might apply, and they'll cook up some other reason why they don't want me. This wastes everybody's time and leaves me confused about the real reason. If the company wants to cheapest people, let them be honest about it. I wouldn't even apply in the first place, because it's a shitty company.

lol (1)

Charliemopps (1157495) | about 3 months ago | (#47292395)

Am I the only one who thinks many of the quality control issues and failed projects in the tech industry can be attributed to age discrimination?

So you follow up a story about age discrimination with a statement that is clearly discriminatory? lol

I personally think there is a difference between people of different ages, and men and women for that matter. All this posturing trying to pretend the groups are the same is silly. In regards to old vrs young the laws may do some good though. I generally support the notion that Older tech workers 'don't know the new stuff' etc... but now I'm starting to think that may be the industries fault. If you only hire the young to take on the new projects, then move them to maintain those projects after they're done... then eventually they will be 'old' themselves and never have the opportunity to learn anything new because you only hire new employees for new projects.

It's a crisis of their own making. Train your staff. If they refuse to improve, fire them, regardless of age.

I keep *hearing* about age discrimination... (1)

Slartibartfast (3395) | about 3 months ago | (#47292409)

But, as a 47-year-old Linux guy, with many different positions at companies large and small over the years, I've never *seen* it. Of course, anything I say is anecdotal; makes me wonder if some facet of my experience is keeping me from where it's practiced, e.g., I'm in the northeast; I'm a 100% Linux-head; I've been in senior positions for years, etc. Perhaps it's more prevalent in different locales, outside of the Linux community, or among mid/junior-grade positions?

Re:I keep *hearing* about age discrimination... (3, Interesting)

gatkinso (15975) | about 3 months ago | (#47292483)

It depends. Having a security clearance helps insulate one from this. Having left such work for pure commercial work I definitely see it, whereas I never saw it in the government space.

Software fails the test of time (5, Insightful)

Required Snark (1702878) | about 3 months ago | (#47292419)

As someone with 45+ years of software experience I can personally verify that software development has not improved significantly over the last 25 years or so. The two most important changes are that there is much less assembly programming (outside of imbedded systems) and each hardware vendor does not have their own completely incompatible operating system. Most of the rest of the "improvements" are pretty much moot beyond that.

OOP has never lived up to it's hype. No matter how "object oriented" a system is, it is still just as likely to be late and/or broken as in pre-OOP days. Development, maintenance and modification is not automatically better with OOP.

The lessons of good language design might as well not exist. PHP is a cesspool of bad design and implementation. JavaScript, even though it has some nice features (closures) has an obscure object model that is difficult to understand and is a wreck just waiting to happen. (Any body can overwrite the basic implementation of built in functions. Really? ObjectHasOwnProperty. Really?) C++ finally got a reasonable memory management model after C++03 with RAII/smart pointers. What did that take, 30+ years? Python and Lua are reasonably good, but they seem to be niche players. Java isn't a programming language, it is a self contained universe. Like a black hole, once you go in you never come out. And even if it's OK now, the fact that Oracle in in charge means that it is like Middle Earth if Sauron won. (Yes. Ellison is that bad.)

I can't be certain, but I strongly believe that one of the reason for the lack of progress is that there are not a lot of old programmers still in the profession. Unlike other engineering fields, say civil engineering, chemical engineering, etc careers tend to be short. There are not enough people around to say "we tried a version of that 15 year ago, and it had these pitfalls." The result is that the same mistakes keep getting made over and over again. This fits in with the observation that as a profession we have not improved much on estimating project requirements and being on time and on budget.

That's one of the reasons I hate the term "Software Engineering". We are not real engineers because we can't deliver on time with predictable results and a predefined cost. It's not that this happens all the time in other engineering areas, it's just that it rarely happens with software.

Who gives a shit about quality? (4, Funny)

gelfling (6534) | about 3 months ago | (#47292451)

This is the IT industry we're talking about. If we could hire illegal aliens with functional illiteracy in their OWN language let alone ours, we'd do it if we could get away with it.

Older guys have more experience (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 months ago | (#47292461)

They'll produce superior product, faster - Fact: Younger guys cost less & have LESS experience, thus will produce slower and inferior product.

However - The REAL fact of the matter is payroll being easily controlled (since any business major can tell you that payroll is the single easiest cost-center to control, hence, why offshoring/outsourcing's so prevalent), just so mgt. can get more of a bonus in reality and so stockholders (with bogus common stock that yes, can vote (how many actually do?), but is paid LAST in bankruptcy liquidations after secured creditors and PREFERRED stockholders (e.g. boards of directors)).

When that comes before superior product being produced, which it would be when produced by an older more experienced coder, that company is on its way down.

This all stems from short-term thinking and the stock market as well... quick buck artists abound in an economy of "publicly held/traded companies" (the days of FORD or Microsoft being run by the original family or owners are going by the wayside - & with it, so is QUALITY product).

Show me differently, please... the results out there today back me, so Good LUCK!

APK

P.S.=> I can't put it ANY plainer than that... apk

I used to be an engineer. I worked for Motorola, (5, Interesting)

mark_reh (2015546) | about 3 months ago | (#47292471)

HP, Fujitsu, and TI among others. When I turned 42 the pressure to move into marketing or management started. I was not interested in either, so I continued to do engineering. Then the layoffs started. With each layoff, the next job became harder to find and hold. After a couple years and three jobs/layoffs, I saw the writing on the wall and went back to school for 6 years.

Now I am a dentist. My age and gray hair are appreciated as symbols of knowledge and experience by my patients (even though my experience doesn't match my appearance). Most of my patients thank me for the work I do, and I sleep well at night, secure in the knowledge that the work I did that day was valuable and helped someone to have a better life. This is the exact opposite of my engineering work- no thank yous, only the continual justifying of my job, fighting for vacation time, forget about the promised company-paid continuing education, and long hours of meaningless work on "important" projects that do things like let teen aged girls post selfies to Facebook.

Now I work a 40 hour, 4 -day week, and never, ever take work home with me. I have two 3 day weekends per month and one 4 day weekend per month. That leaves me time to pursue my hobby- engineering, of course. Sure, there's some stress on the job, like when an extraction isn't going well, or when I have to work on little kids, but I am compensated for it and it is very short duration.

Screw the high tech industry and the dopes who run it.

Am I the only one who thinks (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 months ago | (#47292473)

Am I the only one who thinks it might be best to avoid engaging in age discrimination while complaining about age discrimination? Young people don't care about quality and old people have some sort of magic that prevents projects from failing? Next are you going to tell me how the French are ruining the tech industry, while complaining that it's hard to get hired in another country?

Pushing 50 and still going (2)

gatkinso (15975) | about 3 months ago | (#47292475)

Still on top of the coding game at my age. I went into management for about 5 years but that wasn't for me. I was good at it but I found it tedious and I find meetings to be insufferable.

Will probably get out soon, have some other things I may want to pursue.

It hasn't been easy: constantly learning new technology is becoming a PITA. The same old arguments with the youngsters: no - style doesn't matter as long as it is consistent, yes - this is the way we do it (was not even my second choice of style btw), no - we will not revamp the entire code base because you like tabs, thanks for an hour of useless back and forth.

Also staying late at the end of sprints annoys the hell out of me... mainly because these late sprint spikes are rarely the result of my work (in fact, this has only happened once that I can recall and I told the rest of the team to go home while I fixed my own mess). So yeah, I am leaving now - to go see my kids not that it is any of your business as I don't question you when you show up late with a hangover... no, I am not going to stay late to fix your work yet again.

But all of this is moot: the real issue is that I am not doing a better job than many devs with ~15 years of experience. But I probably make more money (not always tho! Some of these late 30's dev are making BANK). Being completely logical about the issue I would definitely get rid the higher pay guy first. It is that simple.

Re:Pushing 50 and still going (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 months ago | (#47292607)

56 and still going strong, I now operate as a sort of engineering agony aunt for a team of 60, 20 and 30 somethings, keeping them away from the dark side, pointing out the holes in their proposals, encouraging promising approaches, helping out when stuck. Generaly heaping praise and scorn in equaly measures, when I'm not working on my own projects. Building proofs of concept.

Its not quite management, more like an engineering football coach. I have managers that report to me to do the boring stuff. And no, I'm not an owner or founder.

Re:Pushing 50 and still going (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 months ago | (#47292655)

How about pushing 55 and still going strong? Perhaps it is just dumb luck, but I kept to learning the leading edge of electronics and software design and didn't get into the web domain technologies (ok - I've done some, but generally avoid it). I work in medical instrument design and some military design and have more work that I can handle. At least from my perspective, there still are North American companies that want their product designed here and are willing to pay a professional to do it. Some (not all) of the companies I have dealt with understand that getting some new grads is good, taking it too far represents false economy. I work for the ones that do value experience and realize that it costs more. Those companies usually have management that see further down the road than 'launch day'.

As I said, perhaps I have had just dumb luck, as there are a lot of stories here with the opposite experience. But there seems to be value in being able to do everything from the electronics design (real time closed loop control, signal acquisition, DSP on uC and FPGA, PCB layout/board bring-up) to the high level GUI design and coding. There doesn't seem to be any people in this area that have a high level of expertise in both electronics and software design.

Perhaps it is geographic location. If I lived in silicon valley would these skills might be a dime-a-dozen and I would be singing a different tune?

When you can't measure (3, Interesting)

overshoot (39700) | about 3 months ago | (#47292477)

whatever it is that your developers are producing (other than warm chair seats) then you start talking like management: "Put X engineers on Project Y to get us to the Z man-months required within schedule."

I'm retired now and have never worked for a middle or senior manager who has read Brooks. They live at the man-month metric, and base their hiring on the fact that you can get the man-months you need for less if you get them from fresh-out developers working from a remote site in Afghanistan.

No joke. I've talked to the CEO of a $2B/year semiconductor company and that is precisely as deep as his plaanning goes.

Companies should release employee age data (1)

eclectro (227083) | about 3 months ago | (#47292503)

Recently Google and Yahoo released their employee demographics. I found it quite interesting that they left out what the average ages were inside their companies. I can't help but wonder if it was left out by design.

In my experience the opposite can be true, too (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 months ago | (#47292587)

Sure its true that these startup companies want young blood, but I think much of the reasoning behind it is that these inexperienced programmers are much cheaper and (as far as the manager's think) know their trade almost as well as someone more experienced that costs much more.

This leaves other companies, those that know nothing beats experience when it comes to software shunning away younger engineers or posting "starter positions" requiring "5 years of experience". Currently I'm 23 years old and have been developing software for over a decade (yes I can do the math, no, I'm not mistaken), I'm fluent in 6 programming languages, I charge accordingly, and my work speaks for itself; I've never had an unsatisfied client. I find it much easier to land a client if our communication is over text and they can't see how obviously young I am. Meeting clients in person often ends with that funny look I get when I'm not what someone expected and a short conversation ending with "well we might call you".

I assume this is true for me because I charge as much as an engineer with my experience should charge. People willing to pay what I charge are usually *not* willing to hire someone young / fresh out of school and inexperienced.

Once past 50, you're fucked. (2)

caferace (442) | about 3 months ago | (#47292597)

I'm feeling this. I worked for Netscape back in the 90's. I'm considerig trimming that from my resume simply because it make me look too old-school. There is definite discrimination amongst up and coming companies. It's incredibly frustrating for me, a guy in his early 50's. I know a metric shit-ton of stuff, and especially the shortest path to get to the goal. Do I get hired, or even a reply on sending in a resume? No. My long work history stretching back to 1983 has me handcuffed.
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