Beta

Slashdot: News for Nerds

×

Welcome to the Slashdot Beta site -- learn more here. Use the link in the footer or click here to return to the Classic version of Slashdot.

Thank you!

Before you choose to head back to the Classic look of the site, we'd appreciate it if you share your thoughts on the Beta; your feedback is what drives our ongoing development.

Beta is different and we value you taking the time to try it out. Please take a look at the changes we've made in Beta and  learn more about it. Thanks for reading, and for making the site better!

KDE Releases Frameworks 5

Unknown Lamer posted about two weeks ago | from the new-and-shiny dept.

Programming 87

KDE Community (3396057) writes The KDE Community is proud to announce the release of KDE Frameworks 5.0. Frameworks 5 is the next generation of KDE libraries, modularized and optimized for easy integration in Qt applications. The Frameworks offer a wide variety of commonly needed functionality in mature, peer reviewed and well tested libraries with friendly licensing terms. There are over 50 different Frameworks as part of this release providing solutions including hardware integration, file format support, additional widgets, plotting functions, spell checking and more. Many of the Frameworks are cross platform and have minimal or no extra dependencies making them easy to build and add to any Qt application. Version five of the desktop shell, Plasma, will be released soon, and packages of Plasma-next and KDE Frameworks 5 will trickle into Ubuntu Utopic over the next few days. There's a Live CD of Frameworks 5 / Plasma-next, last updated July 4th.

cancel ×

87 comments

KDE becoming more rococo every day (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about two weeks ago | (#47403717)

Every new addition to KDE gives me one more reason not to use it.

Re:KDE becoming more rococo every day (0)

Anonymous Coward | about two weeks ago | (#47403731)

Sounds like more security holes and opportunities for malware to hijack your app. Think OpenSSL.

Re:KDE becoming more rococo every day (1)

Danious (202113) | about two weeks ago | (#47406047)

Sure, using mature, well-tested, well-supported, widely-deployed libraries from a reputable source is always going to be less secure than writing your own code...

Re:KDE becoming more rococo every day (0)

Anonymous Coward | about two weeks ago | (#47403793)

Fine. Piss off. I'll enjoy a well designed, well factored and actively developed platform.

Re:KDE becoming more rococo every day (0)

Anonymous Coward | about two weeks ago | (#47405399)

So will I. Let me know when one arrives.

Ask them about safety and security (1)

Anonymous Coward | about two weeks ago | (#47403807)

Every new addition to KDE gives me one more reason not to use it.

I hear complaints about size + complexity and hence about insecurity, but no more specific rationale given for them yet. Maybe the designers have taken this into account and the design incorporates new features for safety and security?

The least we should do is ask. Of course, if there are no such design features and safety + security are based entirely on "We don't make mistakes" wishful thinking, then you'd be right. But they should at least be given a chance to respond.

Re:Ask them about safety and security (3, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | about two weeks ago | (#47405983)

"I hear complaints about size + complexity and hence about insecurity, but no more specific rationale given for them yet. "

That's because the complaints are unfounded.

The libraries are the same size or smaller than their 4.x counterparts. Very little new functionality was added, as the focus was on modularity and Qt5 support. The 4.x development cycles were about adding necessary *missing* frameworks, while 5.x is about refinement. So size is a bogus measurement, particular as many pieces were upstreamed into Qt5 to reduce duplication of code.

Complexity is actually lowered. Before we had libraries that had complex internal interactions and were conglomerations of multiple topics. "core" is not a great definition for a library. ;) With each library now focused on specific tasks and with each library having well defined dependencies, the complexity of each library has greatly *lowered*.

So people making the size/complexity comments (which is news to me, actually :) are simply not sufficiently informed.

Re:KDE becoming more rococo every day (1)

Njovich (553857) | about two weeks ago | (#47405701)

Exactly, I recently needed some files from an old hard drive and found myself in a KDE 3.5 installation. It was absolutely brilliant: fast, stable, no 'usability improvements' that removed features. Apps like Basket that never had a stable release in KDE4. I honestly don't know what it is that we have gained with KDE 4. Rotating widgets? Anyway, I still love KDE 4, and KDE is still (IMHO) the best desktop out there, but was it worth the transition to 4?

Re:KDE becoming more rococo every day (0)

Anonymous Coward | about two weeks ago | (#47405971)

The reason Basket never saw an updated release had nothing to do with Plasma and everything to do with the difficult of moving from Qt3 to Qt4. Qt4 was a massive change and not all applications, particularly complex ones with few developers working in their spare time, made the jump.

Blame the right things for your complaints.

"I honestly don't know what it is that we have gained with KDE 4."

A better "run command" dialog, a much improved window manager with amazing compositing, better screen management, bluetooth support, network management that didn't suck, hotplug device support, a more configurable taskbar that also includes launchers ('pinned' apps), pervasive search, shells for small-screen devices .. I could go on and on .. and that's only Plasma. The libraries also delivered huge improvements all over the place.

Of course, for people who have made up their minds to rag on the 4.x series will make ridiculous claims like "rotating widgets were the only new thing". Get with reality, even if it .. no, ESPECIALLY if .. it runs counter to your pet ideas.

Re:KDE becoming more rococo every day (3, Interesting)

Njovich (553857) | about two weeks ago | (#47406073)

The word plasma was never mentioned in my comment.

A better "run command" dialog, a much improved window manager with amazing compositing, better screen management, bluetooth support, network management that didn't suck, hotplug device support, a more configurable taskbar that also includes launchers ('pinned' apps), pervasive search, shells for small-screen devices .. I could go on and on .. and that's only Plasma. The libraries also delivered huge improvements all over the place.

Sorry, I had most of this stuff in KDE 3.5? Yes, it was under different apps, some of them not part of KDE, but worked fine for me. And if all of this is so much better, why does it work so much worse?

Of course, for people who have made up their minds to rag on the 4.x series will make ridiculous claims like "rotating widgets were the only new thing". Get with reality, even if it .. no, ESPECIALLY if .. it runs counter to your pet ideas.

Ah yes, the user is wrong. Well, do as you see fit anyway, this discussion would have been useful a couple of years ago. Your side with the 'user is always wrong, lets change it anyway' has won, and now KDE (and also Gnome, with the exact same reasoning) has become irrelevant for all but a handful of users (actually, I am one of these users that still uses KDE 4 daily, mostly because kioslaves is great). Hope you enjoy your victory!

However, one thing I want to make clear, I have been using KDE4 for years exclusively (right up to this day), I have liked it a lot despite all the shortcomings. I went to the conferences, I contributed to KDE Look (remember that? That actually had good content back when there were still users), etc. And only now that I've been back to KDE 3.5 for a bit, I realized just how shitty KDE has become compared to what it was.

Re:KDE becoming more rococo every day (1)

bumba2014 (3564161) | about two weeks ago | (#47406241)

Lets hope they cleanup in "KDE" 5 series then...

Re:KDE becoming more rococo every day (1)

TemporalBeing (803363) | about two weeks ago | (#47408443)

Ah yes, the user is wrong. Well, do as you see fit anyway, this discussion would have been useful a couple of years ago. Your side with the 'user is always wrong, lets change it anyway' has won, and now KDE (and also Gnome, with the exact same reasoning) has become irrelevant for all but a handful of users (actually, I am one of these users that still uses KDE 4 daily, mostly because kioslaves is great). Hope you enjoy your victory!

If that's the case, then why is everone - Apple and Microsoft included - copying what KDE did in KDE4? KDE is still extremely relevant and really on the forefront of the tech.

On top of that, they're still the only ones that have targetted multiple kinds of devices with a unified programming experience and able to deliver customized UIs for each device type (e.g. netbook vs desktop vs tablet...)

Re:KDE becoming more rococo every day (1)

Danious (202113) | about two weeks ago | (#47406263)

Basket is an interesting case. I'm not sure it was ever an official KDE app or even developed within the KDE community. The old website is still hosted on KDE, but the code now seems to be over at Github and untouched for a few years. They do seem to have a working Qt4 port though, they even had beta releases, but I guess the devs ran out of motivation. That's one big reason to develop apps *within* the KDE community, anyone with a KDE developer account could then offer to take over maintaining the project to move it forward. Perhaps someone will get motivated to contact the last author and offer to take over and move it into the KDE infrastructure.

Re:KDE becoming more rococo every day (2)

marsu_k (701360) | about two weeks ago | (#47408177)

So, what you're saying is... the project is a basket case?

Re:KDE becoming more rococo every day (1)

bumba2014 (3564161) | about two weeks ago | (#47406213)

Every new addition to KDE gives me one more reason not to use it.

It's interesting if you look at the amount of people using KDE, they probably aren't complaining, only a small group of people, who are never happy are complaining. On Gnome there aren't that many who complain, because most people don't use it. Only this gives a false impression as if gnome would be better. But I think it would be better, if gnome had never been designed, Diversity of course is nice on the linux platform. But it is one of the reasons linux has such a low usage on the desktop...

Re:KDE becoming more rococo every day (1)

Pigskin-Referee (1389181) | about two weeks ago | (#47407915)

As a user of FreeBSD, I can safely say that by the time they incorporate this person into their "ports system', Frameworks 7 will have been introduced.

It looks awesome! Totally awesome! (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about two weeks ago | (#47403719)

Congratulations to all the contributors, and thank you for all your hard work on this project!

C++ wins the day again. (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | about two weeks ago | (#47403869)

KDE and Qt are synonymous with C++. They prove that C++ is the best language around, because the best apps and GUI frameworks around are built using C++. KDE 5 is fast, it's stable, and it just plain great software to use, all thanks to C++.

Then there's Gnome. They're still pissing around with C, JavaScript, and their homegrown Vala poopfest. And Gnome is a total disaster these days! That's what happens when you use inferior languages instead of a professional language like C++. C++ means your code is good, which means that your libraries and apps are good. Other languages mean that your code is bad, which means that your libraries and apps are bad.

There's one lesson here and that is to use C++ if you want to have the greatest software known to humankind. C++ is where it's at, baby!

Re:C++ wins the day again. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about two weeks ago | (#47404451)

Come on you've got to be a bit more subtle than that surely!

Re:C++ wins the day again. (1)

bumba2014 (3564161) | about two weeks ago | (#47406245)

well that's why it's marked funny....

Re:C++ wins the day again. (1)

Anonymous Coward | about two weeks ago | (#47404625)

Are you *gasp* suggesting that we should use a programming language which requires proper attention span to write programs? No, no, no. I love my JavaScript frameworks, so easy to glue together and I'm off to drinking in no time.

Re:C++ wins the day again. (2)

Kjella (173770) | about two weeks ago | (#47406191)

KDE and Qt are synonymous with C++. They prove that C++ is the best language around

LOL, the only reason C++ is tolerable is Qt and only if you avoid screwing with resources yourself and let QObjects handle the mess, it's still full of leftover ugly from the 70s that neither Java, C# nor Swift choose to handle the same way. The problem is that creating a good language, a good compiler and a comprehensive system library (practically a must today IMO) is a huge job and without a big company like Sun/Oracle (Java), Microsoft (C#) or Apple (Swift) backing it you'll never get off the ground.

Re:C++ wins the day again. (1)

TemporalBeing (803363) | about two weeks ago | (#47408473)

KDE and Qt are synonymous with C++. They prove that C++ is the best language around, because the best apps and GUI frameworks around are built using C++. KDE 5 is fast, it's stable, and it just plain great software to use, all thanks to C++.

Then there's Gnome. They're still pissing around with C, JavaScript, and their homegrown Vala poopfest. And Gnome is a total disaster these days! That's what happens when you use inferior languages instead of a professional language like C++. C++ means your code is good, which means that your libraries and apps are good. Other languages mean that your code is bad, which means that your libraries and apps are bad.

There's one lesson here and that is to use C++ if you want to have the greatest software known to humankind. C++ is where it's at, baby!

Just be aware that a Plasma takes advantage of a lot of QML usage - e.g JavaScript. But yes, C++ plus Qt is a phenominal experience.

Re: It looks awesome! Totally awesome! (0)

Anonymous Coward | about two weeks ago | (#47404137)

Long time KDE user and its the only desktop I support in our all Linux office environment.
Still haven't found my ideal Linux OS but when it comes to the desktop KDE has never let me down.
KDE is also the quiet achiever - IMO the biggest mistake that GNOME made was not listening to the complaints, we all know this now. However they also didn't take into account the contagious aspect of it. Complaints amplify.
It was also pointed out to me that I've configured my launcher panel in a similar way as unity/gnome. That is I have icon only launchers that group instances and a middle click launches a new instance - panel on the right of the screen though.
Of course I might change it all later - BUT THATS THE POINT.

Gnome isn't doing anything new - it just doesn't offer any choice on the matter (configuration).

Re: It looks awesome! Totally awesome! (1)

Anonymous Coward | about two weeks ago | (#47405745)

KDE people listens to complaints? Nepomuk anyone? Baloo? Semantic crap?

Re: It looks awesome! Totally awesome! (0)

Anonymous Coward | about two weeks ago | (#47405995)

KDE listens to input. This is visible all over the code base where user input has been taken into consideration for years, literally thousands of times over. So, yes, KDE does.

"Nepomuk anyone? Baloo? Semantic crap?" ... which you can turn off. ... which has increased in performance every release. ... which has gained new *useful* features every release. .. but let's assume that nobody was listening when it came to the semantic search stuff (which is untrue, but let's roll with it) ... the level of incorporation of feedback across the rest of the code base is tremendous.

Do not, however, confuse "must change anything that anyone ever complains about" with "listens to feedback". Sometimes feedback comes from few people and their feedback if acted on would ruin things for many times more people. Sometimes feedback is simply incorrect. etc.

Re: It looks awesome! Totally awesome! (1)

marsu_k (701360) | about two weeks ago | (#47408217)

While I agree with you in general terms - this [kde.org] is an issue that has bugged me ever since migrating to KDE4 and apparently I'm not alone. Still waiting for a proper solution (adding another input field in settings doesn't seem to be that big of a deal, configurability is what KDE is about after all, but I'd be willing to edit a text file by hand if that's what it takes; but no progress on the issue so far).

OpenSUSE Packages available for a long time (1)

Anonymous Coward | about two weeks ago | (#47403737)

http://en.opensuse.org/SDB:KDE_repositories#KDE_Frameworks_5_.26_Plasma_5 has the links to install KDE 5

And GNOME 3 is still a HEAP OF SHIT. (1)

Anonymous Coward | about two weeks ago | (#47403739)

KDE 4 is fucking sweet. It was the nicest desktop env I've ever used. But then I tried KDE 5 this morning, and it isn't just fucking sweet, but it's fucking A, too. It makes KDE 4 look like shitty shit shit. KDE 5 is fast, it looks fab, and the apps are amazing. I haven't tried GNOME 3 in a long time, so I installed that today, too. Jesus H. Christ, it's still fucking horrible! It's slow, it looks like shit, and some of the apps would crash on me each time I tried to use them. I haven't had a KDE 4 app crash out on me in four years. I had GNOME 3 apps crashing on me every few minutes! The KDE krew can get shit done, and they get it done right. They don't piss on their hands like the GNOME peeps do. GNOME 3 sure as fuck isn't getting any better, and now that KDE 5 is out there, GNOME 3 looks even worse now. GNOME 3 is the shitty shit shit, while KDE 5 is the best there has ever been.

Re:And GNOME 3 is still a HEAP OF SHIT. (1)

relisher (2955441) | about two weeks ago | (#47404133)

GNOME 3 sure as fuck isn't getting any better

I'm not sure which version of GNOME you used, but beginning with GNOME 3.14, the experience has become very refined and much quicker partially based on its switch from X11 to Wayland

Re:And GNOME 3 is still a HEAP OF SHIT. (1)

jones_supa (887896) | about two weeks ago | (#47405145)

Is there a GNOME+Wayland distro that I could test today? Would be interested.

Re:And GNOME 3 is still a HEAP OF SHIT. (1)

AHuxley (892839) | about two weeks ago | (#47405569)

Try http://distrowatch.com/search.... [distrowatch.com] and select GNOME in the Desktop interface and Wayland in the Package search.

Re:And GNOME 3 is still a HEAP OF SHIT. (1)

Hognoxious (631665) | about two weeks ago | (#47405959)

It'd be a lot slower if you could actually do anything...

Does it make a sound? (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about two weeks ago | (#47403745)

If the share is 0.2% does it matter? There are more reading this than using that.

You don't know the Linux desktop market. (3, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about two weeks ago | (#47403791)

You clearly don't know how the Linux desktop market is organized.

KDE 4 is the big player. It has 57% of the Linux desktop market.

Unity is next. It has 14%.

Xfce has 9%.

Cinnamon has 5%.

MATE has 5%.

GNOME 2 has 4%.

LXDE has 2%.

The remaining 4% is spread among GNOME 3, CDE, WindowMaker, enlightenment and other minor players all with under 1% share.

So as you can see, KDE basically is the Linux desktop market. Most Linux users today are using it.

Citations:
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_X_Window_System_desktop_environments

Re:You don't know the Linux desktop market. (4, Informative)

sgage (109086) | about two weeks ago | (#47403889)

Your citation is crap.

From the Wikipedia entry:

"This article is written like a personal reflection or opinion essay that states the Wikipedia editor's particular feelings about a topic, rather than the opinions of experts."

The Wikipedia editor is a KDE fanboi. That's fine - I'm liking KDE myself, but I have a really hard time believing that Gnome 3 is splitting 4% "market shaqre" with WindowMaker and Enlightenment. We need some real statistics.

Re:You don't know the Linux desktop market. (2, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | about two weeks ago | (#47403923)

Are you sure that you're looking at the right Wikipedia page? I was curious about the GP's claims, too, so I checked out the reference. I don't see the content warning that you're talking about, but I do see a table with those stats, and a pie graph of the data, too. There are multiple references for those stats too and they all look legit to me. All but one of my friends uses KDE 4, so I think those numbers are reasonable. The guy who doesn't uses Lxde. None of my friends and nobody at my Linux meetup group (about 60 people) uses Gnome 3. I think it really is a dead desktop since it's just so awful.

Re:You don't know the Linux desktop market. (3, Informative)

vux984 (928602) | about two weeks ago | (#47403945)

I don't see a table with those stats. I don't see a pie graph at all. Unity and Cinnamon aren't even mentioned on the page.

This is the link I'm visting, copy/pasted from the GP post

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org]

Re:You don't know the Linux desktop market. (2)

Ed Goforth (95982) | about two weeks ago | (#47404155)

Are you sure that you're looking at the right Wikipedia page? I was curious about the GP's claims, too, so I checked out the reference. I don't see the content warning that you're talking about, [snip]

It has the "content warning" right at the top of the article:

This article is written like a personal reflection or opinion essay that states the Wikipedia editor's particular feelings about a topic, rather than the opinions of experts. Please help improve it by rewriting it in an encyclopedic style. (December 2007)

It's the boilerplate from "{{Essay-like|date=December 2007}}" according to the Edit page.

For the record, I do use and prefer KDE, but every copy of CentOS 5 or 6, since it's the default. I do have some CentOS 5 servers where I use KDE inside of VNC. But the KDE that's part of CentOS 6 is very unstable in my experience with plasma-desktop crashing frequently.

Re:You don't know the Linux desktop market. (1)

Hognoxious (631665) | about two weeks ago | (#47405429)

For the record, I do use and prefer KDE, but every copy of CentOS 5 or 6, since it's the default.

Not quite sure what you're trying to say there, but I've used 5 & 6 and both have Gnome as the default.

Thankfully, still version 2.xx

Re:You don't know the Linux desktop market. (1)

Ed Goforth (95982) | about two weeks ago | (#47407181)

Not quite sure what you're trying to say there, but I've used 5 & 6 and both have Gnome as the default.

Thankfully, still version 2.xx

That's exactly what I was trying to say, but somehow the word "Gnome" didn't make it from brain to keyboard.

Re:You don't know the Linux desktop market. (0)

Bite The Pillow (3087109) | about two weeks ago | (#47404889)

Your post is written the same way. I could have cared and looked up several different sources of numbers. But I don't.

I actually believe those numbers now, because you sound butthurt and failed to offer alternatives. So congratulations, you achieved the opposite of your goal.

Re:You don't know the Linux desktop market. (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about two weeks ago | (#47404905)

I actually believe those numbers now, because you sound butthurt and failed to offer alternatives.

Then you must be stupid.

statistics (2)

bumba2014 (3564161) | about two weeks ago | (#47405509)

Never trust a statistics that you didn't falsify yourself...

Much better data (0)

Anonymous Coward | about two weeks ago | (#47405543)

source: Debain Popularity Contest (popcon)

Gnome Shell: 32% (https://qa.debian.org/popcon.php?package=gnome-shell)
XFCE: 12% (https://qa.debian.org/popcon.php?package=xfce4)
KDE: 10% (https://qa.debian.org/popcon.php?package=kde-baseapps)
MATE: 1% (https://qa.debian.org/popcon.php?package=mate-desktop)
Cinnamon: 0.3% (https://qa.debian.org/popcon.php?package=cinnamon)

Of course this is biased for many reasons, first and foremost because many Debian installs don't use a desktop. Mint and Ubuntu (both Debain derivatives) are much more popular than Debian itself. But those are the best "hard" numbers I could come across.

My own wild guess, based on observation of the people around me, would be something like
Unity: 60%
Cinnamon/Mate: 20%
XFCE: 5%
Gnome: 5%
KDE: 5%
Others: 5%

But don't quote me on that.

Re:You don't know the Linux desktop market. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about two weeks ago | (#47403897)

Where did you get those numbers from? The wikipedia link doesn't say any of that.

Re:You don't know the Linux desktop market. (4, Informative)

vux984 (928602) | about two weeks ago | (#47403929)

The wikipedia article you cite doesn't include those numbers. It doesn't even MENTION Unity or Cinnamon, nevermind give marketshare percentages.

I'll give you the benefit of the doubt that you simply cited the wrong link... but I can't verify you numbers, and frankly find them suspect.

Re:You don't know the Linux desktop market. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about two weeks ago | (#47404367)

These % are misleading... as there are less than 100 desktop linux users out there in the wild. JKS. I am a long time KDE user (work + home), wouldn't use anything else and cannot w8 to upgrade!

Re:You don't know the Linux desktop market. (1)

BlackPignouf (1017012) | about two weeks ago | (#47405687)

83% of your post is bullshit.
17% is whitespace.

Citations
[1] My ass

Re:Does it make a sound? (4, Interesting)

Ol Olsoc (1175323) | about two weeks ago | (#47404019)

If the share is 0.2% does it matter? There are more reading this than using that.

What's the market share of a Bugatti Veryon" Or a Lamborghini? You "market share" drones need to move to Idaho, so you can get a license plate that brags about "Famous Potatoes" to put on your Toyota Corolla.

Re:Does it make a sound? Chaplin. Italty. UA. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about two weeks ago | (#47404899)

Where does one acquire these things that are given away, made by few, and in basements or 2nd story lofts? I heard Italy is in Hard Times, but even Charlie Chaplin had to pay people. UA for a!!

Re:Does it make a sound? Chaplin. Italty. UA. (1)

Ol Olsoc (1175323) | about two weeks ago | (#47406565)

Where does one acquire these things that are given away, made by few, and in basements or 2nd story lofts? I heard Italy is in Hard Times, but even Charlie Chaplin had to pay people. UA for a!!

Some times you just have to sacrifice in order to bask in the glow of using the popular thing.

Re:Does it make a sound? (1)

strikethree (811449) | about two weeks ago | (#47428525)

LOL, I hate to be pedantic but I LOVE cars. Lamborghini is not a car, they are a manufacturer. They have several models, some are over a million, some can be had for slightly under 200k if you look carefully.

Bugatti makes a Veyron, not a Veryon. Current models are going for over 1.5m IIRC. Easy typo to make but it is what put me into pedantic mode. The market share thing with a model and then just a manufacturer is what threw it over the edge. Nothing personal. We all do silly things like that. I probably made a few mistakes that pedants can get me for in my correction of your post. :P

Have a nice day. Heheh. :)

Re:Does it make a sound? (1)

Ol Olsoc (1175323) | about two weeks ago | (#47430347)

Suitably smitten, I accept my comeuppance!

Re:Does it make a sound? (1)

strikethree (811449) | about two weeks ago | (#47430815)

Suitably smitten, I accept my comeuppance!

No no no! It was not a comeuppance and you should not feel smitten. It was just a friendly helpful reminder. BTW, your point in your original post was perfectly valid and I agree with it. :)

What's been removed,dumbed down,made incompatible? (1)

Anonymous Coward | about two weeks ago | (#47403775)

That's the question I ask every time I see a new release of software these days. We seem to be going backwards fast.

Capture: screwed

How appropriate.

Re:What's been removed,dumbed down,made incompatib (0)

Anonymous Coward | about two weeks ago | (#47403825)

Not likely. KDE is actually getting things right these days.

Re:What's been removed,dumbed down,made incompatib (5, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | about two weeks ago | (#47404079)

KDE is probably the least dumbed down desktop environment there is.

It's really massively customizable in ways suitable for power users.

Re: What's been removed,dumbed down,made incompati (0)

Anonymous Coward | about two weeks ago | (#47404697)

KDE is customizable. If you want simple (some will call it "dumbed down") you can do it. If you want all sorts of options, you can do that as well. If you want social media integration, go for it. If you want a terminal and some text files to edit, you can do that as well. Want it to behave like Windows, Mac OS, or even iOS? You can do that too.

Customization is KDE's biggest strength. It can be anything and everything you want.

Re:What's been removed,dumbed down,made incompatib (1)

Burz (138833) | about two weeks ago | (#47405907)

Hmmm...

1) No (working) color management

2) Taskbar overinflates icons when its vertical (no more ability to control it since 4.x) and doesn't care what the panel's max icon size is set to.

3) Taskbar switches between grouping and non-grouping, from minute to minute

4) Very loose UI design leaves me less able to anticiapate how KDE will react to my input, and I can't tell it, for instance, to underline single-click widgets.

5) Activities - A huge waste that detracted from bug fixes and design consistency, and even scared away a lot of the technical users.

6) The pretense that Dolphin is anywhere near as flexible as (the old) Konqueror.

7) Can't control keyboard layout from login screen

8) Can't control trackpad speed

9) Decreasing stability.

I have to use KDE every day. Quite frankly, it only has the "Special Window Settings" really going for it. I'd trade all the rest of the KDE features for a Unity that had Dash replaced with a launcher menu.

Re:What's been removed,dumbed down,made incompatib (0)

Anonymous Coward | about two weeks ago | (#47406451)

1) No (working) color management
Not sure what you mean by this. I've never found an issue customising my desktop colours. I stare at a screen all day so making sure the desktop doesn't blind me is one of the first things I change on a new installation.

2) Taskbar overinflates icons when its vertical (no more ability to control it since 4.x) and doesn't care what the panel's max icon size is set to.
Just tested this, and my icons didn't change size at all when I switched the taskbar vertical

3) Taskbar switches between grouping and non-grouping, from minute to minute
You can change the grouping behavior in the taskbar settings. Again, once set I've not noticed any bugs in this

4) Very loose UI design leaves me less able to anticiapate how KDE will react to my input, and I can't tell it, for instance, to underline single-click widgets.
I've never even considered doing this (I just change things to be double click as that's my preference). Have you asked a KDE dev if you might just be missing an option somewhere?

5) Activities - A huge waste that detracted from bug fixes and design consistency, and even scared away a lot of the technical users.
I'm not really sure what this has to do with anything. Are you still referring to KDE 4.1 or something?

6) The pretense that Dolphin is anywhere near as flexible as (the old) Konqueror.
Dolphin isn't Konqueror, so that's a bit of a silly comparison. Konquorer still exists as well. I also find dolphin to have lots of features that are very hard to trip over unless you know what you're looking for, so it may well be that bad UX in dolphin is more the issue here than feature set.

7) Can't control keyboard layout from login screen
Never tried, so I'll take your word for it

8) Can't control trackpad speed
Never tried

9) Decreasing stability.
This is just silly and makes it look like you may be trolling. The stability is pretty darn good now and has been getting better and better since 4.2 came out.

Re:What's been removed,dumbed down,made incompatib (1)

Burz (138833) | about two weeks ago | (#47409509)

1) Color management refers to controlling the color accuracy of the display. Typically this will involve importing an ICC file, or performing a manual calibration sequence. KDE has a not-half-finished module (not included in the core package) for System Settings panel, whereas gnome and unity are fully functional and included by default.

2) You're probably not setting the DPI to match your display and using the default that results in text becoming tiny on higher-res displays.

3) It occurs when the setting is on "group when taskbar is full". It will switch back and forth when there are a few dozen windows on the desktop.

4) You can switch to double-click (as I usually do), but then you have a situation where, for instance, the icons on the main System Settings panel are doulble-click, but going down a level, say into Application Appearance, gives you another set of icons that are presented the same way but are single-click. Sometimes this switch shows up *inside* applications, making the overall UI feel goofy and inconsistent. On the one hand, single-click everywhere can be inconvenient and risky, whereas their implementation of double click is VERY unprofessional. They could simply show an underline on mouseover if the object is single-click and be done with it, but meaningful ques for the user are not this project's strong suit.

5) Yeah... really they should give people a way to get that sh!t out of the way; Better yet, choose a sensible default and leave it disabled so it isn't sticking wacky-useless icons everywhere.

6) The last time I tried, the new Konqueror's kio integrations were broken. The fact is that they trashed their two best-loved apps: Konqueror and Amarok.

[...]
9) Having used KDE since 2000, I'd say the project has a general problem with deterioration. They used to be the most reliable desktop, but lately it seems more like Gnome2.

Re:What's been removed,dumbed down,made incompatib (1)

KugelKurt (908765) | about two weeks ago | (#47404723)

What's been removed,dumbed down,made incompatible?

You know this is a release of the Frameworks, right?
Nothing has been dumbed down, kde3support is gone but other than that KF5 is mostly source-compatible with kdelibs4.

Re:What's been removed,dumbed down,made incompatib (1)

Bite The Pillow (3087109) | about two weeks ago | (#47404865)

Capture. You mean Captcha? The thing that's as relevant as tea leaves and astrology?

That there is no more meaning than the one you imbue?

That random, unrelated, almost always irrelevant word jumble to which some posters ascribe meaning out of feelings very similar to religion and winning the lottery?

Is that what you meant?

Re:What's been removed,dumbed down,made incompatib (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about two weeks ago | (#47405437)

I love watching KDE fanbois get their panties all twisted up!

Two extremes (0, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | about two weeks ago | (#47403819)

1. Excitement that a big change is coming to my favorite DE.

2. Nostalgia for days gone by when a direct link to an ISO on slashdot would have caused a server outage.

Re:Two extremes (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about two weeks ago | (#47403835)

AC replying to himself.

Help slashdot this server by checking out this screenshot of a Plasma 5 desktop - http://starsky.19inch.net/~jr/tmp/plasma5.png

KDE has come a long way (1)

wjcofkc (964165) | about two weeks ago | (#47403847)

I remember the first time I compiled it at version 0.6.3 - It was a hopelessly pathetic win95 clone. I was sure it would go nowhere. Then the 1.0 [llu.is] release came along and it was clear it had a future. I don't much care for KDE myself, but I do note it's contribution.

Re: KDE has come a long way (1)

Anonymous Coward | about two weeks ago | (#47404213)

You've made an interesting observation. You see there's nothing wrong with the windows desktop. It was actually a good model so was the mac desktop. What did KDE allow you to do? Both. KDE can give you the same usability configuration as any desktop, whether it would be a windows, Mac or gnome desktop.

I argue the threat to Microsoft has in never been specifically the Linux kernel. Its been the desktop. Its been KDE and to a lesser extent gnome.

KDE is the desktop FRAMEWORK of the future and its here today.

Thank you *applause* *cheers* and *tears*

Re: KDE has come a long way (0)

Anonymous Coward | about two weeks ago | (#47404443)

Gnome will continue its de-diversification (as a precedence) - perhaps into something more specialised (I.e mobile devices).
I actually have no idea, which is why I lost interest.

Re: KDE has come a long way (0)

Anonymous Coward | about two weeks ago | (#47405139)

"What did KDE allow you to do? Both. KDE can give you the same usability configuration as any desktop, whether it would be a windows, Mac or gnome desktop."

I don't think that's entirely accurate. I really like have the 3 menus from classic gnome 2 (now Mate) "applications, places, and system". There are add on's for Cinnamon and XFCE that reproduce this and probably one for gnome 3 (if I cared to look). However whenever I search KDE I find the main menus are Lancelot and Kicker and other similar variations, which I enjoy using about as much as the Windows 8 start screen.

Shame... (2)

johnsnails (1715452) | about two weeks ago | (#47404393)

It is a shame the KDE team don't make a bigger fan fair when announcing something like this, maybe some nice crisp screenshots of some of the graphical changes or a screencast (yes I have seen some of the youtube ones by others). Just a thought!

Re: Shame... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about two weeks ago | (#47404407)

All the screencasts, screenshot and blog is never be a good substitute for quiet confidence.
Besides that's you're job - if you choose to accept.

Getting on with the job (tm).

Re:Shame... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about two weeks ago | (#47404469)

Thing is, they only released Frameworks 5, AKA, the newest version of the KDELibs. There isn't much in terms of screenshots you can do, especially since the biggest change is that they're not monolithic any more, but modular.

Next step, they're gonna release Plasma 5 in the next couple of weeks, and there's gonna be a lot more screenshots, though not that much interesting, since they learned from the 4.0 debacle and focused on porting the current features and general user experience to a brand new platform (Frameworks 5 + a bunch of architectural changes for plasma that will -- The future tense being quite important here --allow it, for instance, to switch from a desktop UI to a tablet UI at runtime). There's a new default theme though.
Then the cool features will start appearing in 5.1.

And over the next weeks/months (no timetable yet AFAIK), applications will release KF5-based versions.

Re:Shame... (1)

blackpaw (240313) | about two weeks ago | (#47404489)

This isn't the new desktop shell (Plasma2? PlasmaNext?), its basically the libs behind it, so there are no screen shots per se.

I must admit I find the new branding/naming conventions very confusing.

Re:Shame... (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about two weeks ago | (#47404513)

This isn't the new desktop shell (Plasma2? PlasmaNext?), its basically the libs behind it, so there are no screen shots per se.

Version number will be 5.
you can just call it Plasma.

I must admit I find the new branding/naming conventions very confusing.

I find this bad boy [imgur.com] very practical.
(and the "new" convention is almost 5 years old)

Re:Shame... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about two weeks ago | (#47405007)

This isn't the new desktop shell (Plasma2? PlasmaNext?), its basically the libs behind it, so there are no screen shots per se.

I must admit I find the new branding/naming conventions very confusing.

It makes perfect sense to the insiders. You are not one of them, obviously.

(Makes no sense to me either)

Re:Shame... (1)

Danious (202113) | about two weeks ago | (#47406215)

This isn't the new desktop shell (Plasma2? PlasmaNext?), its basically the libs behind it, so there are no screen shots per se.

I must admit I find the new branding/naming conventions very confusing.

Plasma Next is the internal codename for whatever is the next version of Plasma being worked on, you won't see it used in general publicity. After some discussion we decided to use 5 as the technical version number, but we will not emphasise it in the publicity.

As someone already posted, this http://i.imgur.com/usfgJSF.png [imgur.com] sort-of explains it. It's simple really:

* KDE = Entity that produces Free Software, like Mozilla or Microsoft or Google or Adobe
* Frameworks / Plasma / Applications = Software 'products' that KDE produces, like Microsoft produces .Net / Windows / Office
* 4 / 5 = Version number, sometimes a little mixed up, like Windows Vista and 7 (which is really version 9 or something) and Office 2013 which is for Windows 7, etc.

So the KDE Community produces KDE Software, currently consisting of:
* KDE Development Platform 4, a monolithic set of development libraries for use with Qt4
* KDE Plasma Workspaces 4, a set of desktop, netbook and tablet shells for Linux/BSD systems
* KDE Applications 4, various applications that can run under any Linux/BSD shell, and on Windows and Mac, but work best under Plasma on Linux.

These were all released in monolithic lock-step, so were conflated in people's minds as "KDE 4".

With the migration to Qt5 underway, we will eventually have:
* KDE Frameworks 5 (replacing Development Platform 4), a modularized set of development libraries for use with Qt5
* KDE Plasma Workspace 5, a shell for Linux/BSD systems that can dynamically adapt to desktop, netbook and tablet form factors
* KDE Applications, as above, but probably a mixture of Qt4 and Qt5 based in every release as they slowly migrate

These will all be on different release cycles as best suited to their target audience, so will see their individual identities emphasised more. Most users only need to know about "KDE Plasma" or "Plasma Desktop" and/or the specific KDE Applications that they use, everything else including version numbers will most likely be played down in the publicity.

Re:Shame... (1)

blackpaw (240313) | about two weeks ago | (#47412305)

Nice summary, thanks.

Uh, whoa. (2)

Balinares (316703) | about two weeks ago | (#47405767)

I've tried a lot of desktops over the years and always returned to KDE as the most able to be useful when I need it to and stay the fuck out of the way the rest of the time. (Unity, despite its reputation, is good at that too.) But the love was no longer really there. Like a favorite old workhorse that you just no longer really ride for the pleasure of it alone.

So I've not kept track of KDE 5 developments, and honestly I expected to be way underwhelmed. It was, after all, supposed to be mainly a port of the same old thing to the new Qt 5.

But I just tried the live CD linked in the article and, uh, whoa. It looks so *tidy*. Full of that orderly neatness that Gnome, for all its faults, has generally been better at than KDE. And I find myself excited for the first time in a long while, and that's a very nice feeling to rediscover.

All about the apps? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about two weeks ago | (#47405909)

I did enjoy KDE3/4, even grew to like Unity until I had to abandon it because of the spyware. Now on Gnome Shell and it's surprisingly nice once you've added a couple of extensions. However this is a very interesting release. I love the modularisation. It would be nice to be able to install a KDE app without it pulling in half the desktop libraries. This could make it the framework to write cross platform and cross distro apps in. Put a Python wrapper around each library and it could make things super simple to write desktop apps. Almost as nice as being able to drop into BASIC on the Acorn Archimedes and write a desktop GUI app in minutes.

Phillip.

Re:All about the apps? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about two weeks ago | (#47411049)

That's what Qt has already been for years and years. KDE is just putting the icing on the cake, because now you'll have an extremely polished library of third party widgets to use alongside Qt :)

kde - the last best hope for the desktop (0)

Anonymous Coward | about two weeks ago | (#47406063)

I just hope KDE 5 doesn't ruin the KDE desktop like Gnome 3 and Windows 8 ruined their desktops. KDE is the last, bright, shining hope for getting work done on Linux!

Re:kde - the last best hope for the desktop (1)

bumba2014 (3564161) | about two weeks ago | (#47406289)

it won't because it isn't just an improvement on the inside. And they are mostly using QML instead of hardcoded dialogs. But if you want to, probably someone makes a windows 8 like start screen. There are a lot of plugins for kde already available...

But does it suck? (1)

Lord Kano (13027) | about two weeks ago | (#47406769)

I'm completely serious.

I HATE KDE4. I still use Trinity wherever I can because that was the KDE that I liked.

I don't care about what whiz bang technology went intro this. I don't care how many man years were invested. I don't care who else likes it. I will reserve judgement until I use it myself. If it's not as good as KDE3.5, I'll stick with Trinity.

LK

I hope they fix KIO in the next KDE release (0)

Anonymous Coward | about two weeks ago | (#47406823)

If it could just mount network shares on the fly like Gnome do it would be perfect. I'm tired of getting these "You can only select local files" in non-KDE applications like LibreOffice and I can't beleive this issue is still not fixed. And if you're lucky to have a native KDE application that supports network files, instead of working directly on the remote server it makes a local copy in a temporary folder and when you're finished it uploads it on the server. (quite annoying when it's a 2gb file)

Of course there are workarounds, I use smb4k and most of the time it works great. But in 2014 I shouldn't have to use this kind of workaround for something as simple as accessing a remote share in my desktop environment, it should work out of the box.

https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=253547

Woohoo! (0)

Anonymous Coward | about two weeks ago | (#47411033)

Woohoo! Long live that which is not GNOME. Long live that which gives me more widgets for my Qt apps. Love live KDE!
Check for New Comments
Slashdot Account

Need an Account?

Forgot your password?

Don't worry, we never post anything without your permission.

Submission Text Formatting Tips

We support a small subset of HTML, namely these tags:

  • b
  • i
  • p
  • br
  • a
  • ol
  • ul
  • li
  • dl
  • dt
  • dd
  • em
  • strong
  • tt
  • blockquote
  • div
  • quote
  • ecode

"ecode" can be used for code snippets, for example:

<ecode>    while(1) { do_something(); } </ecode>
Create a Slashdot Account

Loading...