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LimeWire Goes Open-Source

michael posted more than 12 years ago | from the 6346-or-bust dept.

The Internet 180

The famous Anonymous Coward writes: "I saw over on Gnutella News that LimeWire LLC announced that they're releasing the LimeWire codebase under the GPL license and that they've setup limewire.org as a site dedicated to Gnutella and LimeWire development. LimeWire's codebase is currently being used by two of the most popular Gnutella clients: LimeWire and SwapNut. As far as I know, this is the first time a formerly closed-source file-sharing codebase this popular has been open-sourced." gtk-gnutella is coming along nicely for Linux, but more competition is always better.

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BREAKING NEWS! (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2336967)

Breaking News: Osama Bin Ladin IS GAY! [isgay.com]
www.MarkVD.net Rocks! [markvd.net]

Mr. Subliminal (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2336980)

The dick famous Anonymous Coward writes: "I saw penis over on pussy
Gnutella News penis that dick LimeWire LLC announced that they're
releasing the LimeWire codebase under the GPL license and vagina that
penis they've setup limewire.org twat as cock a cock site dick dedicated
to twat Gnutella and penis LimeWire development. LimeWire penis's twat
codebase vagina is currently being used vagina by two of dick the most
cock popular Gnutella clients: LimeWire pussy and SwapNut cock. As far as
I know, this is the first time a dick formerly twat closed-source pussy
file-sharing codebase penis this popular has been open pussy-sourced." gtk
pussy-gnutella twat is coming along nicely for Linux dick, but more
competition is always better.

Re:BREAKING NEWS! (-1)

ubertroll (153053) | more than 12 years ago | (#2337080)

In fact, I think Osama Bin Laden [wtv-zone.com] is sexy.

Holiday (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2337407)

Just don't go to Afghanistan for a holiday. A picture like that would get you shot!!

Jerry! (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2337219)

Trolling for Jerry Falwell!

Burn all infidels, perverts and evil books and movies! It is time to establish the United Christian States of America!

Woot! (0, Redundant)

minus23 (250338) | more than 12 years ago | (#2336968)

Nice I love this app.

nuts! (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2336970)

i wouldn't like to have my nuts open sourced.

Scary stuff! (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2337236)

Im now 37 and still having paranormal experiences. My childern have had them also ill try to keep these short. I lived in detroit with my new husband and child in this house we were watching tv when all of the sudden it sounded like someone was in the basement smashing bottle after bottle of pop or what ever in the basement my husband and i ran down stairs but there was no bottles broken nothing was awry so we checked out side and nothing out there we walked back in the living room and all the hanging pictures were on the floor and one was broken. My husband said somethings not right about this house i agreed. In that house our toilet would have a black film in it , it was flushable but still it freaked me out cause i only saw something like that in a scarey movie called amittyville. My husband went to the bathroom one nite and swears he seen a man sitting in the chair in the living room, it scared him so bad he ran and jumped in our bed.We both had nightmares in that house. The next house we lived in that was haunted was the house in pinckney michigan. My hair was pulled lights would come on and go off we could here a baby crying in the walls my children were touched and there names said by something that growled their names. My children and i were dancing in the living room when a picture jumped up and flipped numerous times in the air before landing on the floor, My mom was painting and saw a head of a man just his head he was watching her. Goodness i could go on but it dosnt stop there I now live in a very old farm house about 100yrs old and ive seen bare little legs from the knee caps down my nite shirt has been tugged on while ive brushed my teeth, I was having a Mary-Kay party when my instructor said id like to see a little something happen tonite, no sooner than she said that all the lip sticks fell over and rolled off the table on to the floor. I literally had to beg her to stay for the party i had to ask the spirit to stop and it did for a while. believe it or not im still not done but ill write again some other time. BTW the head my mother saw was floating. Well chow for now You can e-mail me if you wish. have a blessed day to all.

Re:Scary stuff! (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2337242)

This isn't the forum, nor the site for this type of discussion.

While there are no doubt numberous people interested in such discussions, your post can not be seen as anything other than OFFTOPIC.

Ignoring those facts, those wishing to discuss these matters with you can not do so if you do not leave an e-mail address.

I suggest you find a paranormal discussion forum.

Have you considered (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2337409)

a visit to a psychiatrist? They have nice little pills that stop that kind of thing. I most emphatically emphasize that you visit a psychiatrist ASAP. Hope that helps, a friend.

Gnutela on Linux (1)

guacamole (24270) | more than 12 years ago | (#2336973)

LimeWire seems to the best Linux client around. Correct me if I am wrong. Way to go guys!

Re:Gnutela on Linux (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2337065)

LimeWire is cool. Been using it for over a year now.

Java is just bytecode (1)

LazyDawg (519783) | more than 12 years ago | (#2336974)

Translating java bytecode back into source code is not very hard. LimeWire, being a java app, was halfway open source already.

Sure, the function, class and variable names would be lost, but unless they did some screwy compiling, a halfway decent decompiler would make it readable enough to debug, rewrite, port or repair.

Re:Java is just bytecode (1)

mlinksva (1755) | more than 12 years ago | (#2337042)

Source code availability does not open source make. No more than not requiring purchase makes free software. Perhaps it was halfway "shared source" before (but even that's being unfair to "shared source").

Congratulations to LimeWire for releasing an excellent libre software application!

Re:Java is just bytecode (1)

Snootch (453246) | more than 12 years ago | (#2337154)

Translating java bytecode back into source code is not very hard. LimeWire, being a java app, was halfway open source already.

Not at all. The thing about that is that you would be breaking their copyright (and ergo the law) if you modified and/or redistributed the code. This way, it's properly free (RMS-sense), as opposed to just crackable.

LimeWare on OS X! (0)

Thaidog (235587) | more than 12 years ago | (#2336976)

It's awsome... Java at it's best.

Re:LimeWare on OS X! (1)

nbvb (32836) | more than 12 years ago | (#2337391)

Agreed.

It works really, really well on OS X, what with the built in Java 2 and all. :-)

Works great on Windows. (2)

Mustang Matt (133426) | more than 12 years ago | (#2336984)

I've been using the Windows version for a while now.

They keep adding improvements fairly steadily. Each release is more stable and has better features than the last.

They really had nothing to lose going open source.

Open Source: The Industry's Death Rattle. (-1)

The_Messenger (110966) | more than 12 years ago | (#2336986)

If they were making money, it wouldn't be considered. Just like only crappy programmers write open-source software -- because they couldn't find jobs, with their lack of skill -- only dying companies embrace the open-source "business model." (*Snicker*) I look forward to their bankruptcy. Their absence makes room for aprofitable, closed-source capitalist software company to improve the economy while providing the public with great software at reasonable cost.

I spit on your lame open-source "community." I hope you all fucking die.

I hearby grade you (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2337414)

I hearby grade you, an F, for seriously fucking failed. I know this is your first year in troll school, but you really must pick up your standards if you are to have ANY chance of graduating.

Linux Crap (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2336987)

Argh! Linux sucks!!!! It's bloated, slow, shoddy. Download a real operating system.

Re:Linux Crap (-1)

ubertroll (153053) | more than 12 years ago | (#2337070)

db d888888b d8b db db db db db
88 `88' 888o 88 88 88 `8b d8'
88 88 88V8o 88 88 88 `8bd8'
88 88 88 V8o88 88 88 .dPYb.
88booo. .88. 88 V888 88b d88 .8P Y8.
Y88888P Y888888P VP V8P ~Y8888P' YP YP

.d8888. db db db db .d88b. d8888b. d88888D
88' YP 88 88 `8b d8' .8P 88. 88 `8D YP d8'
`8bo. 88 88 `8bd8' 88 d'88 88oobY' d8'
`Y8b. 88 88 .dPYb. 88 d' 88 88`8b d8'
db 8D 88b d88 .8P Y8. `88 d8' 88 `88. d8' db
`8888Y' ~Y8888P' YP YP `Y88P' 88 YD d88888P

Re:Linux Crap (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2337136)

Bloated and slow, yes.

I wish someone would write a bare-bones OS with assembler.

I'm so sick of having to download 23 M kernel (bzip2!) every time a new kernel comes out. Never got the patch to work.

Re:Linux Crap (1)

notext (461158) | more than 12 years ago | (#2337237)

Well if you were to some how search and find(I couldn't find it for some reason when searching) there was a story on /. about a linux distro written in assembly. Its about as barebones as you're gonna get.

Re:Linux Crap (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2337240)

Well, consider the extra download time a stupidity penalty for not being intelligent enough to figure out 'patch', or to use Google:

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=how+do+I+ap pl y+kernel+patches

Re:Linux Crap (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2337256)

Yeah, I've tried both -p0 and -p1 options.

Doesn't work.

Re:Linux Crap (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2337489)

Then you're a fucking moron

Why open source has no future (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2336992)

Let's have a close look at the costs involved when running a Linux system.

An important factor in Linux' cost is its maintenance. Linux requires a *lot* of maintenance, work doable only by the relatively few high-paid Linux administrators that put themselves - of course willingly - at a great place in the market. Linux seems to be needing maintenance continuously, to keep it from breaking down.

Add to this the cost of loss of data. Linux' native file system, EXT2FS, is known to lose data like a firehose spouts water when the file system isn't unmounted properly. Other unix file systems are much more tolerant towards unexpected crashes. An example is the FreeBSD file system, which with soft updates enabled, performance-wise blows EXT2FS out of the water, and doesn't have the negative drawback of extreme data loss in case of a system breakdown.

The upcoming 'solution' to this, EXT3FS, is nothing more than an ugly hack to put journaling into the file system. All the drawbacks of the ancient EXT2FS file system remain in EXT3FS, for the sake of 'forward- and backward compatibility'. This is interesting, considering that the DOS heritage in the Windows 9x/ME series was considered a very bad thing by the Linux community, even though it provided what could be called one of the best examples of compatibility, ever. When it's about Linux, compatibility constraints don't seem to be that much of a problem for Linux advocates.

Back to Linux' cost. Factor in also the fact that crashes happen much more often on Linux than on other unices. On other unices, crashes usually are caused by external sources like power outages. Crashes in Linux are a regular thing, and nobody seems to know what causes them, internally. Linux advocates try to hide this fact by denying crashes ever happen. Instead, they have frequent "hardware problems".

The steep learning curve compared to about any other operating system out there is a major factor in Linux' cost. The system is a mix of features from all kinds of unices, but not one of them is implemented right. A Linux user has to live with badly coded tools which have low performance, mangle data seemingly at random and are not in line with their specification. On top of that a lot of them spit out the most childish and unprofessional messages, indicating that they were created by 14-year olds with too much time, no talent and a bad attitude.

I could go on and on and on, but the conclusion is clear. Linux is not an option for any one who seeks a professional OS with high performance, scalability, stability, adherence to standards, etc.

Re:Why open source has no future (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2337001)

ROFL, I've never read any piece with such a blatant disregard for facts in my entire life. At least that BSD is dying junk was halfway decently written, this looks like it was a report done in Junior High. Backing up my facts with proper, VALID arguments, what's that? Nonsense.

Re:Why open source has no future (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2337043)

Hahaha, you're an example of NOT using facts yourself. Try to counterargument the article, instead of badmounthing it (typical FUD tactic).

As it stands now, every item mentioned in the article represents daily experiences of people with Linux, which you can find anywhere except when you close your eyes explicitely for them. I'm so sorry for you that the truth is not what you would like it to be.

Come up with some arguments, dude. Oh, you can't? I thought so.

Re:Why open source has no future (2)

BitwizeGHC (145393) | more than 12 years ago | (#2337174)

Junior high students at least go to the library and do a little research.

This is a trull. Ignore it.

interesting (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2337173)

I had a Slackware box that only went down once in a year. When there was a power failure.
And another that in 9 months has only been down during a reboot.
I also have a laptop that has 106749 minutes (74 days) of Linux use on it, and all my data is there.

Thank you for your concern.

Re:interesting (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2337204)

hey lamer
thanks for fucking sharing that

Re:interesting (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2337419)

No problem. Just trying to build the "community".

Re:Why FreeBSD has no future (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2337246)

Not too long ago, I decided to give FreeBSD a try, after listening to someone talk about how "stable" it was. I highly regret this decision now. For one, when I tried to do an install over a modem (which I do routinely in Debian GNU/Linux) my ISP cut me off some time towards the end of the sysinstall phase, roughly around the 98 percent mark. Using Debian I find installing over a modem quite easily done, even with an unstable connection, installing the base from floppies, then using apt-get, which has no problem using the reget function that exists in http and ftp. FreeBSD's sysinstall has no reget functionality, and there is no excuse for that because it would be an easy hack to add that. I even told this to some FreeBSD zealots who proceeded to flame me for being a 31337 L1nuX c0d3r. FreeBSD's users are very much going to be the downfall of BSD as a whole, simply for their attitude. Continuing from my FreeBSD experience, I found a distro of FreeBSD at a local computer store, so I installed it, as I couldn't do it over the modem due to my unstable connection and sysinstall's general uselessness. For some reason, the fdisk program in FreeBSD completely ate my partition table, destroying my linux partition, my QNX partition, and its own partition. It would seem that it was unable to handle a hard drive over 2 gigabytes large. I have come to the conclusion that FreeBSD is a useless OS, and all its zealots are zealous over /nothing/, as Linux is far superior, even with ext2fs. Oh btw, nice troll. Ever hear of reiserfs or xfs? Anyways, enough ranting.

Re:Why FreeBSD has no future (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2337253)

For some reason, the fdisk program in FreeBSD completely ate my partition table

I hear you.

I tried installing OpenBSD on my computer and it trashed the partition table too.

Now both Windows and Linux think that there are 16 partitions on the drive and refuse to do anything about it.

Re:Why FreeBSD has no future (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2337437)

What I read here is the whining of some incompetent Linux users trying to use a real Unix, namely FreeBSD, and failing because they're incapable.

Dudes, get with the program. Linux is a mediocre OS and now that it's getting more and more users, this is starting to show.

The compatibility MS kept and was scourched for is now finding it's way into Linux. But now, suddenly, it's OK to have it (hypocrites).

Linux developers usually bring out programs for "linux" or even a specific distribution, not for Unix in general, thereby fragmenting Linux more than it even was, unnecessary.

For serious professional use, Linux is just not an option but for the people who fell in love with their OS and use it for everything they can, including their work stuff. Reasonable orientation on competitive products does not happen by these people. This is just plain unprofessional.

Most Linux users are not realizing how small a person they are. This does not go for every one, but a lot of Linux users think and act 31337 while they just have a little experience with a wannabe toy Unix OS. When it comes to real knowledge, the larger part of the Linux communicaty is nowhere, also compared to competant Windows and Mac users. They are the ones with the big mouth, without actually being able to really do something advanced.

Flaws in your tro^H^H^Hargument (1)

yerricde (125198) | more than 12 years ago | (#2337390)

Linux' native file system, EXT2FS, is known to lose data like a firehose spouts water when the file system isn't unmounted properly ... All the drawbacks of the ancient EXT2FS file system remain in EXT3FS

But not in ReiserFS.

Linux advocates try to hide this fact by denying crashes ever happen. Instead, they have frequent "hardware problems".

Cheap hardware designed to be put in a $500 PC that a user shuts down every night is generally not designed to run 24/7. Try doing your tests on a quality workstation or server. Yes, Linux has bugs. Yes, you can help by documenting them so that kernel developers can reproduce them consistently. No, this doesn't stop Google from using a Linux system.

A Linux user has to live with badly coded tools which have low performance, mangle data seemingly at random and are not in line with their specification.

Are you referring to the GNU tools? In that case, why do Solaris admins routinely install GNU software [sunfreeware.com] on their machines?

a lot of them spit out the most childish and unprofessional messages

Example?

If you don't answer these questions in the next version of this troll, even more of us will refuse to bite.

Re:Flaws in your tro^H^H^Hargument (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2337397)

1. ReiserFS is still beta software.

2. My Windows 2000 and XP machines run great on this hardware.

3. Sun using certain tools doesn't make those tools good.

4. See http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=01/06/28/175320 1&mode=nested for an example. You'll get the point.

wow cool (3, Interesting)

jon_c (100593) | more than 12 years ago | (#2336994)

limewire is one of my favorite gnutella clients, also the first decent windowed java app I've seen. I commend them for doing this, but have to wonder how this fits into there business plane. They just made a deal with File Metrics Inc to brand Limewire tech as SwapNut. but why would they make there source (read: IP) free if there business plane is to license there IP?

-Jon

Re:wow cool (1)

jonathan_ingram (30440) | more than 12 years ago | (#2337241)

The GPL is actually quite useful in cases like this -- as QT have found. You release the code base as GPL, which allows it to be used in any GPL compatible code... but if companies want to use the code in their closed products they have to talk to you and pay you to license it to them under something else.

Re:wow cool (1)

codeforprofit2 (457961) | more than 12 years ago | (#2337482)

Yes, but if there are tons of free alternatives how are the ones who payed for it going to be able to make it back?

Y'all think this is for real? (0, Offtopic)

NorthernAlliance (523801) | more than 12 years ago | (#2336996)

http://homepage.mac.com/afghanterror/

Re:Y'all think this is for real? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2337008)

Yes, it's confirmed real, it has been used (unsuccessfully) to blackmail the Russians out of Chechnya. Of course, at the time, the terrorists down there were still "freedom fighters" (for Chechen oil) for the west.

GTK-Gnutella comming along? (1)

evilviper (135110) | more than 12 years ago | (#2337004)

gtk-gnutella progress is pretty much stopped dead in it's tracks. That's not to say it isn't a decent clone, but at least support versions that are actually prograssing, like Napshare.

Re:GTK-Gnutella comming along? (1)

gid (5195) | more than 12 years ago | (#2337051)

It looks like gtk-gnutella [sourceforge.net] is actually starting to be worked on again. It's on sourceforge now with two recent releases on the 12th and 20th of sept 2001.

FIRST AGAIN!! 3 times today!!! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2337009)

And I'm still a dork.

fucko! (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2337011)

i am FUCKO!!!1 i own yuo all! i am teh master!!

hahahaha juts kiddding :D

but seriuosly, ne azn wanna chat?

Re:fucko! (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2337430)

sure, i'll chat. it's been a while since i last cybered ne1. a/s/l?

Re:fucko! (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2337459)

I AM 16/F, U???

wHY dONT yOU sHOW mE hOW tO pOUR tHIS bOWL oF hOT gRITS dOWN mY bLACK gSTRING??

trolling for MacOS X (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2337013)

w00t - 10.1 out soon baby, filesharing for all

NOWHERE near as good as GNOTELLA (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2337036)

yeah, a windows client, but one hell of a client... multiple search options, availability of most features with a right-click.

Works very reliably with Firewalls and anti-virus software, HAS NO SPY-WARE (bearshare permanently monitors your internet usage with backgroud tasks).

Gnotella has is the easiest to use and returns the most reliable results (can switch download sources on the fly to faster connections):

Gnotella Site [gnotella.com]

Not to rip on the limewire people, but... (1)

gid (5195) | more than 12 years ago | (#2337041)

Is it me, or is everyone else reluctant to download some slow java program with a klunky ui that's 3.44 meg plus the 14.4 meg JRE 1.3; over a lean, mean gtk version that's a 157k download that I can set up with ./configure; make install?

I mean, I wish the limewire people the best, they've obviously put in a lot of hard work and long hours, but it just pains me to see a program that big and inefficient. Is it ever going to be possible to compile a java programs into small to medium sized, standalone executables? I realize you normally need to have the java virtual machine running, but this just seems... messy.

All you java advocates, this is your chance to defend your language of choice and explain it to me and the rest of the /. crowd. :)

And yes, I have used limewire before, albeit quite awhile ago.

Sure, this is a little bit off topic, but how often can you say yay, another program is open sourced. ;)

Re:Not to rip on the limewire people, but... (2)

dangermouse (2242) | more than 12 years ago | (#2337082)

So, look at it this way... just like I already have GTK on my system, I already have a JDK/JRE.

I download Limewire (3.44MB vs 157k is a negligible difference these days) and unzip the distribution. Then I run a shell script that sets up the environment and runs the app where it sits. It takes a little time to fire up the JVM, but then it's just fine as far as speed goes.

With a GTK client, I have to compile and install it, then I get to run it.

I don't really see much advantage in either app over the other.

Re:Not to rip on the limewire people, but... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2337125)

It's amazing how differently people see this.

To me downloading 14 MB Java for a single application doesn't make any sense since I have no other use for it.

I do, however, use GTK all the time.

Other uses of a Java technology runtime (1)

yerricde (125198) | more than 12 years ago | (#2337412)

To me downloading 14 MB Java [technology] for a single application doesn't make any sense since I have no other use for it.

Uh... it contains a plugin that renders Java applets in Mozilla and Opera?

Re:Not to rip on the limewire people, but... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2337143)

What the fuck?!

I downloaded Java Runtime Environment RPM from Sun but it won't install because there's a fucking Sun Microsystems License in front of the binary RPM!

Java vs. Gtk+ clients (4, Informative)

mj6798 (514047) | more than 12 years ago | (#2337094)

Well, several points:
  • If it wasn't written in Java, you wouldn't be getting it at all, since it would be Windows-only (or, at best, FLTK or wxWindows).
  • The download isn't 3.4M, it's about 1M.
  • The Java runtime download isn't 14M, it's about 9M.
  • You seem to be assuming that Gnome/Gtk is somehow free while Java needs to be downloaded. Why? The Gnome/Gtk libraries, as well as the C support libraries, are huge downloads. I remember last time I installed a basic Gnome desktop, I needed to download about 20-30M.
  • Sun's Java runtime isn't slow, although the Java GUI libraries are clearly less efficient than Gtk+. But, then, Gtk+ is also hugely less efficient than Xaw. As machines get faster, we create and use toolkits that are more convenient and less efficient. The Java toolkits have a lot more functionality and are generally easier to program and more robust than Gtk+.

Re:Java vs. Gtk+ clients (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2337098)

The Gnome/Gtk libraries, as well as the C support libraries, are huge downloads.

Yeah, but they do come pre-installed on most distributions. Java doesn't. I just wonder why that is so. Could it be that *gasp* Java is not popular?!

Re:Java vs. Gtk+ clients (2)

mj6798 (514047) | more than 12 years ago | (#2337212)

Yeah, but they do come pre-installed on most distributions.

I don't know what "pre-installed" is supposed to mean. Gnome/Gtk+ are optional packages in almost all distributions.

Java doesn't. I just wonder why that is so.

You might ask why Java isn't part of the RedHat or Debian package systems. There is actually lots of demand, but unfortunately, Sun's licensing policies make this difficult. It's too bad Sun can't market themselves out of a paper bag. However, the Sun JDK is trivial to install. Also, Debian, RedHat, and other systems include several other Java implementations.

Could it be that *gasp* Java is not popular?!

Java, while clearly not perfect, is wildly popular: it is taught widely in colleges, is part of the AP exam, is used extensively in research, and is one of the most popular platforms for building enterprise appliactions. It's a shame that the most vocal Linux proponents seem to be so hostile to it. And it's particularly regrettable that people like de Icaza are off on a wild goose chase with a less mature Java clone called "C#".

JRE is 14M (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2337131)

The Java runtime download isn't 14M, it's about 9M.

Simply not true.

Right now I am downloading Java(TM) 2 Runtime Environment, Standard Edition 1.3.1_01 from sun.com and it is 14M.

Windows JRE is 8.9M (both 1.4b2 and 1.3.1) (2)

mj6798 (514047) | more than 12 years ago | (#2337192)

The Linux download appears to be larger, but that must be something related to the Linux packaging (worse or no compression perhaps?).

Re:Not to rip on the limewire people, but... (1)

Tyrian (62259) | more than 12 years ago | (#2337123)

as pointed out by other reponses, your arguments about library requirements and filesize are more or less moot points.

More importantly, we should look at the program's versatility and ui.
  • Java has worked hard to become usable over many os/hardware combos. For the most part it succeeds, albeit at a cost in speed. GTK+ is designed primarily for X clients, and isn't usable by the majority of filesharers. The Limewire programmers can program in a relatively nice language and develop an entirely cross-platform result at no extra cost.

  • UI is what matters now to people. Limewire has a well thought-out and easy to use UI. This is important for the masses -- the same ones who'll be sharing the files you want. Lean and mean doesn't equate to much when people really just want simple and effective.
bottomline: use whatever floats your boat, but most of us will stick with something we can use off of any modern machine with no need for elbowgrease.

"Linux is only free if your time has no value" -- Jamie Zawinski

Re:Not to rip on the limewire people, but... (1)

JanneM (7445) | more than 12 years ago | (#2337197)

UI is what matters now to people.

And that's exactly my problem with Java. I avoid Java programs whenever possible, as the UI tends to be slow and clunky, and just doesn't fit in with all the other UI apps I use (it won't follow themes or UI conventions).

I _do_ like the fact that I can run stuff that I otherwise wouldn't have had accessible, but as soon as there is a native application to do the same thing, the native one just is so much nicer.

Once the Gnome and KDE people have agreed on some interoperability standards (drag and drop, themability and UI functionality), I'll have KDE apps to consider as native as well. Would it be _that_ difficult to reimplement the Java UI in a native manner as well?

/Janne

Re:Not to rip on the limewire people, but... (2)

jilles (20976) | more than 12 years ago | (#2337278)

"and just doesn't fit in with all the other UI apps I use (it won't follow themes or UI conventions). "

It's funny that you should mention this in a discussion on gui applications for linux. If there's such a thing as a standard look and feel for linux I have yet to encounter it. There's several desktop environments each of which come with their own widget sets, their own way of theming them, their own component models (if any at all) and their own look and feel. Generally you need all of them in order to run common desktop applications. There's no way you can target all those environments as a programmer. And applications written for one environment integrate extremely poor with the other environments (beyond the point of being able to display the user interface).

With Java you want to abstract away from it all so that it works on all platforms. That means you can't rely on native things to work consistently everywhere.

Limewire has achieved that. It's a simple, elegantly designed UI that works the same on each platform. Most of the native competitors pale in comparison and look clumsy when compared. It being crossplatform is vital since gnutella works better if there are more hosts that share files. The limewire people just have to design the GUI once and can focus on adding new features (which they do).

Admittedly there's a problem with integration with the native platform. However, on linux it is absolutely unclear what exactly this native platform is. Should sun integrate the JDK with Gnome, with KDE, with motif with X? Should they create separate jdk's for each environment? What about versions of each environment? The problem is that there is no standard and consequently all sun can do is target the most common denominator. They don't have that problem on mac os X or win32. The JDKs on these platforms generally integrate much nicer. They use file dialogs, the printing facilities, the native 3d, 2d and multimedia libraries, the clipboard and so on. Achieving the same on linux is nearly impossible since there are multiple implementations of each of those components. However, that is a linux problem and not a java problem. IMHO this is the primary reason that linux on the desktop is still not happening outside the developer community. Also I am very pessimistic about these issues being addressed in the near future.

Re:Not to rip on the limewire people, but... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2337238)

I'm surprised people haven't leant to spot a java troll by now.

They should use Java WebStart to distribute (1)

egghat (73643) | more than 12 years ago | (#2337280)

This would reduce the number of downloads of the Java JRE to one and would make updates much more user friendly.

And at last, Java Web Start would have its first killer app.

I wrote this to the tech department, but the mail bounced :-(

Bye egghat.

Re:Not to rip on the limewire people, but... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2337400)

In what way is limewire slow? I havnt seen anything to that....

And its sure easier to downoad the java runtime
and set it up than it is to dl and set up gtk...

Anyway, I think java is not the greatest language
to use on gui clients. And its not here java
is used mostly either. Java is _big_ on the serverside..

Gnut is nice too (1)

JanneM (7445) | more than 12 years ago | (#2337046)

I use gnut, a console gnutella client available here [gnutelliums.com]

It's fast, featureful and is by now very stable, despite the low version number.

/Janne

Re:Gnut is nice too (1)

zuvembi (30889) | more than 12 years ago | (#2337254)

I would have to say that gnut is probably the best gnutella client I've used. It's fairly small, lightweight, and easy to use. Lately it's just running as a server though since I've run out of HD space. Hmmmm, time to fiddle with the burner I suppose.

gtk-gnutella? (1)

jmd! (111669) | more than 12 years ago | (#2337050)

gtk-gnutella isn't "coming along nicely". It hasn't been updated in forever, constantly crashes, lacks outbound filesharing, and many other features.

Re:gtk-gnutella? (1)

gid (5195) | more than 12 years ago | (#2337059)

see above [slashdot.org] .

blah blah blah junk junk words, this post used to violate the postercomment compression filter.

*sigh*

Just in time ! (1)

Taco Cowboy (5327) | more than 12 years ago | (#2337061)



When everything looks bleak - terrorist attack, lost of lives, liberty, and even FREE SPEECH, and open-source projects either folded (going to close source) or were yanked due to legal pressure and such - this is indeed a good news !

Thanks !

Reply to Poster Commentary (2)

dragons_flight (515217) | more than 12 years ago | (#2337068)

gtk-gnutella is coming along nicely for Linux, but more competition is always better.

No offense Michael, but I disagree. I don't know how it is with file sharing systems on Linux, but Windows is glutted with the things. I've used a few and my college roommate experimented with tons of the things. I don't want a lot of variety, I just want a simple interface and a simple system that finds what I want and is relatively lawsuit proof.

Google is the ideal for web searching and something approaching that caliber for file searching would be wonderful. Make it easy, stable to use, and uncomplicated, then get everyone to use it (or make it interoperable with other networks) so that you have the best chance of finding what you want.

Re:Reply to Poster Commentary (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2337074)

your new forwarding address is now

One Microsoft Way

Re:Reply to Poster Commentary (2)

Drakino (10965) | more than 12 years ago | (#2337093)

No offense Michael, but I disagree. I don't know how it is with file sharing systems on Linux, but Windows is glutted with the things.

Limewire supports and uses the gnutella network. The competition he was discussing was with the different gnutella programs, just like Eudora, Netscape Mail, Outlook and many others support the same standards, but provide different interfaces and features.

I do agree though that the peer to peer file sharing needs to be standardized. It's just as bad at the network file sharing protocals, like NFS, SMB, Appletalk, etc... I've seen EDonkey, Gnutella, Napster, and several others I can't remember. Some introduce nice ideas, but the overall community would be better off if that energy went into one standard. Why can't Gnutella be adapted to support EDonkeys fragemented download prcedure?

Oh well, it's yet another example of how the software industry can't learn from the mistakes of the hardware side. Standards have greatly improved the hardware market, imagine what will happen when almost the entire software market sees it this way.

Then download legal files (0, Flamebait)

yerricde (125198) | more than 12 years ago | (#2337465)

Google is the ideal for web searching and something approaching that caliber for file searching would be wonderful.

And the TUCOWS and C|NET search pages don't serve you how?

Oh, you wanted infringing files. Sorry...

LimeWire is cool (0)

nr (27070) | more than 12 years ago | (#2337081)

LimeWire is an good example that you can write usefull and welldesigned GUI applications in Java. I wish they all commercial success.

Re:LimeWire is cool (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2337096)

I was going to give it a try, but then I realised I'd have to download 14+ MB Java Development Kit.

No way.

Re:LimeWire is cool (0)

nr (27070) | more than 12 years ago | (#2337105)

You dont have to download the JDK, only the runtime enviroment. Its only 8 MB.

Re:LimeWire is cool (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2337114)

Where can I find it?

There doesn't seem to be a RedHat RPM.

Re:LimeWire is cool (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2337119)

Wrong.

Java(TM) 2 Runtime Environment, Standard Edition 1.3.1_01 is 13906 KB.

Re:LimeWire is cool (0)

nr (27070) | more than 12 years ago | (#2337205)

Wrong again. Kaffe 1.0.6 is 3.41 MB

http://www.kaffe.org/

Re:LimeWire is cool (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2337259)

I heard Kaffe a dead project.

LimeWire is an AWT app (1)

yerricde (125198) | more than 12 years ago | (#2337481)

Wrong again. Kaffe 1.0.6 is 3.41 MB

LimeWire is an AWT app. How is Kaffe's AWT support coming along?

Sigh (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2337101)

Oh well...

$ ./LimeWireLinux.bin
Preparing to install...
No Java virtual machine could be found from your PATH environment variable. You must install a VM prior to running this program.

rm -rf LimeWireLinux.bin

translation (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2337176)

try something

fail

give up

The story of your life.

Re:translation (1)

Kryptonomic (161792) | more than 12 years ago | (#2337263)

yeah?

what's the point in trying if you're going to fail anyway?

And this is different from GTK+ how? (1)

yerricde (125198) | more than 12 years ago | (#2337498)

No Java virtual machine could be found from your PATH environment variable.

If you were using a GTK+ based app without GTK+ installed, you would get a similar message from ./configure.

KDE: qtella (1)

w00d00 (25416) | more than 12 years ago | (#2337163)

For you KDE-users out there, just apt-get (or rpm or tgz or whatever) the really nice "qtella"-client. it just rocks.

Gnucleus... (1)

XRayX (325543) | more than 12 years ago | (#2337190)

Gnucleus is an open source Gnutella Client, and from all the ones i've tested so far (LimeWire, SwapNut, Bearshare, Gnutella [Classic], Gnut) it's the f***in best. Like every other client it takes some time to connect, but after Gnucleus is connected it's really fast. It's Windows only for now, but the developers say it should work great in wine, cause it uses the MFC of Windows. I haven't tried that yet.
X

Re:Gnucleus... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2337501)

I agree! Gnucleus is the shit!

fuck you (-1)

Bilton (517325) | more than 12 years ago | (#2337317)

Gnutella blows goats, anyway

Interoperability, plus a better interface (1)

michaeldouma (311409) | more than 12 years ago | (#2337320)

But when will the leading P2P sharing programs work with each other? How about a "plugin" system. I would like one program that works with all the systems.

Also, for all the talk of GUIs, all the current programs I have seen suck. If you want to see real innovation in intuitive and functional interfaces, see the headway that Apple Computer has been making with some of their appliance applications, such as "iTunes" and "Sherlock."

A plug-in system would facilitate specialization by developers who want to make new algorithms, implement new protocols, or create new interfaces.

Even better than gtk-gnutella (5, Informative)

Moritz Moeller - Her (3704) | more than 12 years ago | (#2337350)

OK, I have used Limewire in the past and I like it a lot, but the CPU load makes me cry. If you share a lot of files, the CPU load becomes unbearable and slows down your system. I have looked at gtk-gnutella, I have toyed with Phex (another Java client), I have compiled gnut and so on. But only recently I found the right app for my KDE desktop:
QTELLA [kde.com] .

size below 200 k nice interface (like limewire but prettier -> KDE2 conforming)
Screenshots here! [sourceforge.net]

Has all the features one would need. Of course it is a lot faster than Limewire.

Finally one thin I would like to see: A pure and true gnutella server daemon. No GUI. No nothing. Even gnut requires logging in. So how can I start a gnutella client by ssh? How do I control it ? Not possible, the program clkoses as soon as I drop the ssh connection. Now that would be a nice feature in a gnutella client.

Re:Even better than gtk-gnutella (1)

SumDeusExMachina (318037) | more than 12 years ago | (#2337378)

Well... you could try backgrounding the process.

wanker@localhost$ gnut &

Not that hard, really.

Re:Even better than gtk-gnutella (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2337389)

I heard someone else mention backgrounding it, but that is, of course, wrong. The app will die when you exit. Instead, type man nohup and learn about the wonderful world of nohup.

Re:Even better than gtk-gnutella (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2337404)

Yup, looks nice. Just waiting for the to clean
up the code, so i can actually compile it.

gtk-gnutella my arse, napshare is where it's at (1)

astyanax (8365) | more than 12 years ago | (#2337420)

gtk-gnutella is coming along nicely for Linux, but more competition is always better.

As has been already said, gtk-gnutella is not doing anything nicely, it seems to crash after just a few minutes of use. What other didn't seem to mention is that Napshare [sourceforge.net] ,
while it looks almost identical to gtk-gnutella, has no stability problems whatsoever, even though it's version 1.0 * 10^-7 or something =-) I guess that show that version #s really don't mean squat. Try napshare if you want an X11 gnutella client, it fits the bill quite well.
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