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Leaked Build of Windows 9 Shows Start Menu Return

samzenpus posted about 2 months ago | from the back-soon dept.

Microsoft 346

Billly Gates writes A leaked alpha of Windows 9 has been brewing on the internet. Today a screenshot shows what MS showed us at BUILD which includes a start menu with additional tiny tiles for things like people, calendar, pc settings, and news etc. "The new hybridized Start menu appears to be part of build 9788, which was compiled on July 4. While no one seems to have leaked the ISOs for build 9788 yet, the general consensus seems to be that the build does indeed exist somewhere at Microsoft — and that it might also feature Windows NT kernel version 6.4 (i.e. the complete version number is 6.4.9788). The screenshots show a Windows 8.1 Pro watermark, but this isn’t unusual for a very early alpha of a new build of Windows. If this really is the next version of the Windows NT kernel, then we’re most likely looking at an early build of Windows 9 (Threshold) rather than Windows 8.2."

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Microsoft is wasting people's time (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 months ago | (#47451187)

2015 will be year of the Linux Desktop!

Re:Microsoft is wasting people's time (-1, Troll)

i kan reed (749298) | about 2 months ago | (#47451231)

Among dinosaurs who still use desktop computers, instead of laptops or tablets, I guess.

Re:Microsoft is wasting people's time (5, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 months ago | (#47451299)

Among dinosaurs who still use desktop computers, instead of laptops or tablets, I guess.

You're either retarded, or you don't do anything useful with your computer.

Anyone who wants to do anything graphics-intensive would laugh at someone trying to push a laptop on them.

I hate idiots who think laptops are for gaming. They go buy the crappy $200 Walmart bargain, then wonder why it won't play BF4.

Re:Microsoft is wasting people's time (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 months ago | (#47451421)

Funny, because my laptop handles graphics and games just fine. Better than most gaming desktops, in fact.

You're stuck in the 20th century.

Re:Microsoft is wasting people's time (4, Insightful)

gigaherz (2653757) | about 2 months ago | (#47451567)

Both my desktop computer AND my laptop have one thing in common: neither of them is a tablet. And Windows 8 as is is ONLY oriented towards tablets.

A lightweight OS oriented in low power usage and touch-based controls, which just happens to still maintain some sort of classic experience because they couldn't be arsed to remove it the way they removed other perfectly functional features, is not the OS I want to use.

Windows 9 may or may not be good enough to get into my computers. We'll see.

Re:Microsoft is wasting people's time (0, Flamebait)

geekoid (135745) | about 2 months ago | (#47451599)

" And Windows 8 as is is ONLY oriented towards tablets"
false.

Re:Microsoft is wasting people's time (0)

geekoid (135745) | about 2 months ago | (#47451461)

hey there.
Laptop can be used for gaming, just not 200 dollar ones. guess what? 200 dollar desktops also can't be used for gaming.
There are a lot of laptops that an run the newest games at the highest graphic levels.

Re:Microsoft is wasting people's time (1)

war4peace (1628283) | about 2 months ago | (#47451539)

ok, let me clarify: "with similar price tags".

Re:Microsoft is wasting people's time (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 months ago | (#47451467)

Depends on the laptop.

Clevo P570WM : high-end desktop Core I7, 880M GTX SLI, 3 slots for HDDs/SSDs.
More expensive than a desktop, but hey, good luck taking a flight with your desktop...

Re:Microsoft is wasting people's time (1)

Joe_Dragon (2206452) | about 2 months ago | (#47451673)

I don't want a laptop with annoyingly loud fans and very shout battery

Re:Microsoft is wasting people's time (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 months ago | (#47451811)

But you'd be ok with a desktop with even louder fans and no battery at all?

Re:Microsoft is wasting people's time (4, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 months ago | (#47451491)

My desktop is connected to two large flatscreens ( 60" and a 42" LCDs ) , I have two browsers open , multiple tabs , downloading with 3 instances of BNR2 , watching TV through a tuner card on one screen , lying back on the couch with a USB extender on the mouse and a wireless keyboard , allowing me to cycle between different programs and tabs with ease , all running effortlessly thanks to Win 8.1 and an I7 CPU , 5 TeraBytes of hard drive storage allowing me to store and replay multiple video and audio files.....and some retarded kid thinks I should replace this setup with a tiny screened finger smudged tablet.

Wow.Some people really are sheep.We dinosaurs aren't going extinct any time soon.

Re:Microsoft is wasting people's time (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 months ago | (#47451703)

My desktop is connected to two large flatscreens ( 60" and a 42" LCDs ) , I have two browsers open , multiple tabs , downloading with 3 instances of BNR2 , watching TV through a tuner card on one screen , lying back on the couch with a USB extender on the mouse and a wireless keyboard , allowing me to cycle between different programs and tabs with ease , all running effortlessly thanks to Win 8.1 and an I7 CPU , 5 TeraBytes of hard drive storage allowing me to store and replay multiple video and audio files.....and some retarded kid thinks I should replace this setup with a tiny screened finger smudged tablet.

Wow.Some people really are sheep.We dinosaurs aren't going extinct any time soon.

My notebook computer is connected to a large flat-screen monitor (22 inches), I have one web browser open, multiple tabs, connected with a Bluetooth keyboard and mouse, three Internet connections available, streaming Internet radio and music services, remotely connected to a number of virtual servers and workstations (no graphics necessary) and running multiple VMs locally. What was your point again?

Re:Microsoft is wasting people's time (1)

execthis (537150) | about 2 months ago | (#47451797)

What about a universal remote like a Logitech Harmony? I always wondered how well those work with your type of setup.

Re:Microsoft is wasting people's time (1)

tom229 (1640685) | about 2 months ago | (#47451561)

whoooosh

Re:Microsoft is wasting people's time (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 months ago | (#47451587)

I hate idiots who think laptops are for gaming. They go buy the crappy $200 Walmart bargain, then wonder why it won't play BF4.

Nobody wants to play BF4.

Re:Microsoft is wasting people's time (2)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 months ago | (#47451313)

People who actually need to use computers for tangible purposes.

The tablets people you mention shouldn't even be using electronic devices in the first place.

Re:Microsoft is wasting people's time (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 months ago | (#47451449)

Why, because they aren't computer nerds? That's like saying if you're not a pro racer or auto mechanic, you shouldn't be driving a car.

Re:Microsoft is wasting people's time (1)

BronsCon (927697) | about 2 months ago | (#47451749)

If you can't use and maintain it properly and safely (knowing when it needs service and being able to take it to someone who *can* service it if you can't *does* count), then you shouldn't be using it, whether "it" is a car, a computer, a gun, or really anything else... Insisting upon doing so anyway only serves to endanger yourself and those around you and is both selfish and (potentially criminally) irresponsible. If you don't want the expense of paying someone to maintain your things for you, you learn how to maintain them yourself; then you don't have the expense of paying someone to do it for you -- but you have a choice: Learn to maintain it, ay to maintain it, or simply don't use it. There's a fourth option, which is "use it anyway", the irresponsible and often dangerous option, which the raging idiot masses often opt for out of ignorance, then complain (and try and blame someone else) when shit goes south. I've said it a couple different ways now, so hopefully you get it.

Re:Microsoft is wasting people's time (4, Interesting)

Tablizer (95088) | about 2 months ago | (#47451365)

Most non-trivial software is still written for desktops, and that probably won't change any time soon because tablets lack the screen real-estate; and plugging a mouse (for fine pointing) and keyboard into them is not always convenient.

When it comes to work and productivity, desktops still rule (writing, reports, spreadsheets, CRUD, graphics, sound editing, high-end gaming, etc.) Maybe that will change one day as the market for tablets grows so large that "productivity" application makers target tablets first. Then people will start purchasing bigger tablets for productivity usage rather than a Windows PC.

That tipping point is roughly 4 to 12 years off, I would gander a guess.

If MS plays their cards right, then maybe they can get decent Windows tablets on the market so that the dream of one device for all usage is closer to a reality such that those who want productivity applications AND a nice tablet can have both. However, their Window of opportunity (pun intended) is closing fast: Google is hot on their heals.

Re:Microsoft is wasting people's time (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 months ago | (#47451439)

Enthusiasts still need desktops just for the space requirements. Quiet cooling and several HDs need a lot of room and air flow. Even for my mom, I still use a desktop because I can work on it. Easy to upgrade and fix.

Re:Microsoft is wasting people's time (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 months ago | (#47451441)

Yes, I'll run my 12 monitor traffic control system off a laptop. Good thinking.

Re:Microsoft is wasting people's time (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 months ago | (#47451509)

Why would you say something that dumb? Serious work still requires a desktop PC.

Re:Microsoft is wasting people's time (1)

aaron4801 (3007881) | about 2 months ago | (#47451517)

Show me a laptop that lets me swap parts every couple years to stay relevant, instead of buying completely new, and I'll buy. Until then, I'm perfectly happy with my desktop with a few new parts, a few from last year, and probably a couple from about 6 years ago.

Re:Microsoft is wasting people's time (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 months ago | (#47451579)

Most good laptops are modular. You'd know that if you knew anything at all about computers and technology.

Microsoft craps its pants (2, Informative)

tuppe666 (904118) | about 2 months ago | (#47451305)

2015 will be year of the Linux Desktop!

Guess you have not been paying attention, chromebooks are here and occupying all the top slots and rating on Amazon, making a killing in schools, and have a slew of new models out now, and not have Android compatibility...you know the OS that put iOS and windows in the ground...they even look like a mackbook air *winks*.

GNU/Linux continues to do very nicely as well.

ChromeOS is supposedly Gentoo-based. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 months ago | (#47451345)

I've come across some allegations that ChromiumOS and ChromeOS are supposedly Gentoo-based, which means that if that theory is correct, Linux in general has been overtaking Windows going by your comment.

Re:Microsoft craps its pants (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 months ago | (#47451411)

I don't think it is safe say 'killing' and 'schools' in the same sentence. Enjoy being on the terrorist watch list.

Re:Microsoft craps its pants (2, Insightful)

rsborg (111459) | about 2 months ago | (#47451483)

2015 will be year of the Linux Desktop!

Guess you have not been paying attention, chromebooks are here and occupying all the top slots and rating on Amazon, making a killing in schools, and have a slew of new models out now, and not have Android compatibility...you know the OS that put iOS and windows in the ground...they even look like a mackbook air *winks*.

GNU/Linux continues to do very nicely as well.

So where are your solid numbers (Amazon ratings and sales ranks don't specify models sold) ? And please let me know if I can use my Chromebook offline on my airplaine. Sorry, no way a Chromebook is replacing my Macbook anytime - I see you can't even view the movies you buy on the Google Play store offline [1] (ie, in an airplane - no that GoGo streaming is not allowed for movies) - what use is that?

[1] https://productforums.google.c... [google.com]

Not the target market (0)

ArchieBunker (132337) | about 2 months ago | (#47451535)

You are not the target market for Chromebooks. The funny part is they still cost like 1/8 of what your Macbook did. My mom has a Chromebook and she loves it. I never get tech support calls anymore. Everything just works.

Re:Not the target market (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 months ago | (#47451737)

You are not the target market for Chromebooks. The funny part is they still cost like 1/8 of what your Macbook did. My mom has a Chromebook and she loves it. I never get tech support calls anymore. Everything just works.

Same experience for me after my mother bought a Acer C7 Chromebook. Joyful bliss, no more tech support when I visit.

Re:Microsoft craps its pants (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 months ago | (#47451489)

Those are all appliances. Show me a office computers, like the ones you use for presentations, viewing and creating documents, or developing applications. Linux has a strangle hold on the embedded market, but the office and workstation marking is a bit different.

OMG the Irony (1)

tuppe666 (904118) | about 2 months ago | (#47451549)

Those are all appliances.

guess the irony of this being a post about the *hope* of Microsoft receding, on its path to turn computing into Microsoft appliances is lost on you. Although as I said *Linux* and opensource(even a little free software) seems to continue to flourish.

Re:Microsoft is wasting people's time (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 months ago | (#47451335)

It could be but as always M$ comes in and starts pooping all over with their shitty OS

Re:Microsoft is wasting people's time (3, Interesting)

unixisc (2429386) | about 2 months ago | (#47451351)

I bought a new laptop last week, and wiped out Windows 8.1, replacing it w/ PC-BSD 10. It was some work, had some rough edges, but was worth it!

New NT kernel automatically implies Windows 9? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 months ago | (#47451191)

"If this really is the next version of the Windows NT kernel, then we’re most likely looking at an early build of Windows 9 (Threshold) rather than Windows 8.2."

How does a new NT kernel automatically imply Windows 9? Windows 8.1 had a kernel version bump (6.3) and it wasn't called Windows 9.

Re:New NT kernel automatically implies Windows 9? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 months ago | (#47451419)

It does not matter. Shitty OS will stay shitty OS. Nobody cares.

Schizoid (1)

sycodon (149926) | about 2 months ago | (#47451591)

Pretty much explains M.S.'s design team. Start, no Start, Start, No Start. Tiles, no tiles.

It's like daytime TV now.

Windows 8 has a bad rap and better to call it 9 (1)

Joe_Dragon (2206452) | about 2 months ago | (#47451789)

Windows 8 has a bad rap and better to call it 9 then 8.2 or 8.1.2 / 8.1 U2

Start menu driver (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 months ago | (#47451201)

Yeah, the start menu is part of the "kernel" now. Such design, much engineer, wow very built.

But the real question is (0, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 months ago | (#47451207)

Will it break every time you touch it?

Re:But the real question is (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 months ago | (#47451239)

No. But it will be visible on tablets too : it will require to click on it with a real mouse to work. If you try to press it with your finger, it will popup a window asking if you want to allow your finger to touch the start button...

duh

Re:But the real question is (0)

CanHasDIY (1672858) | about 2 months ago | (#47451283)

The return of Clippy:

It looks like you're trying to use a finger on a touchscreen.

Would you like some help?

- continue without help

- wipe the grease/food/semen off your nasty hand

- install a different but equally broken driver

- kick Steve Ballmer in the berries

Re:But the real question is (1)

imatter (2749965) | about 2 months ago | (#47451243)

You have to touch yours?

Re:But the real question is (1)

Tablizer (95088) | about 2 months ago | (#47451255)

Will it break every time you touch it?

That could be fun: BSOD fireworks while playing Bach on your MSablet.

That better be a free update (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 months ago | (#47451235)

What? Need an explanation?

Nobody cares about this shitty OS (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 months ago | (#47451279)

Except shills who post here, getting paid $.50 per post.
Shitty OS for grandpas. Professionals stopped using this family of shitty OSes ages ago.

Re:Nobody cares about this shitty OS (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 months ago | (#47451317)

Absolutely true, as long as you don't count the type of professionals who work in...Enterprise?

Re:Nobody cares about this shitty OS (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 months ago | (#47451359)

They use LCARS on Enterprise!

Re:Nobody cares about this shitty OS (1)

epyT-R (613989) | about 2 months ago | (#47451319)

Well the term 'professional' simply means someone who is paid. Since most businesses still use windows, you are wrong.

Re:Nobody cares about this shitty OS (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 months ago | (#47451715)

Professionals stopped using this family of shitty OSes ages ago.

Actually they started using it again since NT6. You might want to try it too.

Fuck Tiles! (5, Insightful)

organgtool (966989) | about 2 months ago | (#47451293)

And yet this menu ends up being a hermaphrodite of the useful menu from Windows 7 and the tiles of the Windows 8 home screen. Seriously, these tiles are about the worst interface I have ever used. The entire interface is inconsistent: tiles are different sizes, different background colors, some have text while others don't, some tile icons are silhouettes while others are full-color, some tiles contain pictures instead of icons, and some tiles are animated. The whole thing reminds me a more professional version of some random schmuck's GeoCities page circa 1998. Microsoft: just stop it with the tiles and provide something consistent and usable!

Re:Fuck Tiles! (2)

drinkypoo (153816) | about 2 months ago | (#47451315)

The whole thing reminds me a more professional version of some random schmuck's GeoCities page circa 1998.

Not GeoCities, AOL [imgur.com] . Circa what, 1991?

Re:Fuck Tiles! (1)

JDeane (1402533) | about 2 months ago | (#47451475)

Yeah that about sums it up for me...

Sticking with Windows 7 until Android is more mature on the desktop then if MS is still on it's "It needs to look like a clown drank a bunch of paint and puked..." kick then yeah switching I will go.

Re:Fuck Tiles! (0, Flamebait)

geekoid (135745) | about 2 months ago | (#47451369)

I suspect you just like to hate MS and anything they change.
Tiles make accessing everything a lot easier.
Easier to search, 1 click access to everything I use even semi-regularly.
I don't want the start button back. I'ts baffling to me anyone would want it back, at best it's two additional clicks, at worse it led to hunting around looking for something.

Re:Fuck Tiles! (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 months ago | (#47451521)

>It's baffling to me anyone would want Metro, at best it's two additional clicks, at worse it led to hunting around looking for something. Things that were 1 click away before, things that were one right click before, and things that didn't take up 1/4 the start menu to launch a goddamn app.*

*FTFY

Also update notifications that let me ignore them and not a big fucking bar across the screen making my server look like a cell phone giving me the option of "Would you like to take your server down now in the middle of the day or would you like to do it tomorrow at the exact same bad time? Also before you pick, please use this stick to fuck yourself".

Re:Fuck Tiles! (4, Insightful)

epyT-R (613989) | about 2 months ago | (#47451523)

Ah yes, the 'hater' fallacy. If you don't agree with the current trend, you must hate all change.

All that's needed is a simple editable menu for application links. It's not that hard.

How is searching for tiles easier than searching a list in the menu? If you hated doing it in the start menu, you should hate doing it with the tiles, with all that extra eye panning and scrolling. As far as text search goes, users shouldn't need it because your menu is neat and orderly and easy to read. Sticking a search box onto widgets just says loudly and clearly that the design has failed.

If all you want is one click access, add some shortcuts to the shortcut bar...oh right, they broke that too.

Re:Fuck Tiles! (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 months ago | (#47451559)

Also, who the fuck thought it would be a good idea paying H1B's for 3 years to rewrite the exchange management console "on the internet". It's a good thing they made up for the missing features with AJAX, it's better now....

Just like they shittied up outook '13 to reach parity with hotmail.com.

Re:Fuck Tiles! (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 months ago | (#47451601)

I don't know, I think the tiles are sort of a toy. But that's OK, because for most purposes the start menu and the metro start screen are the same. Who clicks on stuff or drills through the start menu with their mouse anyway? The way to use both is Windows Key, then start typing. Want notepad? Windows key, note, enter. Works on both start menu and start screen. It is crazy to go clicking away through all that stuff... Oh, and for all you "my ancient IBM clickety keyboard doesn't have a Windows key you inconsiderate clod" types - fine, press CTRL-ESC then. Same thing.

Re:Fuck Tiles! (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 months ago | (#47451697)

Notepad? [Start]->progs->accs->notepad. NOT start, move mouse to bottom, wait for "More apps", scroll through list of help documents and shortcuts without related folders (cause folders are passe), get to N, make sure you don't miss it, click notepad.

Touchscreen keyboard? Touch text area, click floating icon, type.
On 8? Click text area, wait for nothing, click the keyboard button on the task bar, watch keyboard steal focus from work window, move keyboard out of the way, click text area again, move keyboard back, start typing.

The fact that you are suggesting that someone type into a GRAPHICAL user interface is to be abhored. If I have to type to get shit done in your GUI, you've made a roadblock, not and access lane.

Re:Fuck Tiles! (2)

umdesch4 (3036737) | about 2 months ago | (#47451825)

Too funny. After all these years, I somehow never knew that CTRL-ESC = Windows Key. I'm on an "ancient IBM" keyboard right now (a Model M from 1984), and I just tried it. Massive forehead smack ensued when I discovered it worked. So, honestly, no sarcasm intended, thanks for that tip!

What I miss the most is the classic start menu where you can completely create your own sub-groups in a hierarchy. When I'm trying to remember which utility I wanted to use, but the name was something goofy that I haven't used in a year, it's nice to be able to go Start->Audio Tools->Transcoders-> {browse list, and "oh yeah, it was this..."}->BeHappy

Re:Fuck Tiles! (3, Interesting)

nine-times (778537) | about 2 months ago | (#47451661)

How is it not the same number of clicks? In the best case, in both systems, it's two clicks. You click once on the start button, and then once again on the item you'd like to launch. In either case, that's assuming that you want to launch something that's going to come up right away, and you aren't going to go hunting through other items.

Of course, in both systems you could cut out clicks entirely by pressing the Windows key on the keyboard and typing what you want.

It seems to me that the big difference is that Microsoft hid the button, meaning you had to hover in the correct place before you could click. Then the menu that came up brought up, by default, showed a bunch of tablet apps, and not the desktop apps that you probably want, in a way that completely broke the context you were working in. Every time you wanted to launch something, you were thrown into a different little virtual world with no common spacial orientation, and where all the buttons behaved differently.

It may not seem strange to you once you've gotten used to it, but the normal and appropriate reaction when a person first encounters this sort of thing is to feel unpleasantly disoriented. A good UI designer would know that it was bad, and that users would be unhappy with the change. A good UI designer would also know that hidden hover buttons and hover menus are not generally desirable.

Or were you just trolling?

Re:Fuck Tiles! (1)

unixisc (2429386) | about 2 months ago | (#47451389)

Not just that, they are huge, fixed sizes & occupy a disproportionate area on the screen. Hit the Windows key again, and you get a desktop, but just 1. Oh, and when you add new apps from the Windows store, they are invisible, unless you pan down and get it added to the Metro screen

Re:Fuck Tiles! (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 months ago | (#47451519)

Almost none of that is true

Re: Fuck Tiles! (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 months ago | (#47451397)

While a mut of the 2 is worlds better then just the abortion that is metro, why staple an abortion to a working product? Metro is undiscoverable, everything is in an invisible tab off of the edge, and that edge changes from app to app. Everywhere they want to teach you to swipe from the top to get any usefull info from your phone, except in IE where it's from the bottom, cause it's trendy to have the url bar at the bottom??? *psyduck* And how out of touch do you have to be to say "who would ever want to see the time, battery or signal status on a cell phone, let's hide that shit"?

But there is one, and only one reason that Microsoft will never succeed in the "always ready" space. I'm typing this on my android phone because my windows 8.1 tablet decided as I'm walking to the bathroom, that now would be a good time to start installing 7 updates. In the time that it took me to shit and read slashdot, it has installed 6. Microsoft product stays in pocket, competitor proves own worth, se la vie.

Re:Fuck Tiles! (1)

Tablizer (95088) | about 2 months ago | (#47451487)

I don't mind tiles as long as they stay put. I'll get used to where things are and as long as they stay that way, I don't care if a Goatse interface is used. (Well, okay, not that far, I got carried away.)

And (1)

ArchieBunker (132337) | about 2 months ago | (#47451541)

They are fucking ugly. The super square shapes remind me of basic X window managers. Hell even CDE is more pleasing to look at.

Re:And (1)

jones_supa (887896) | about 2 months ago | (#47451733)

Heh, fully agree. I can't believe Microsoft put out something that simply looks so crusty.

Re:Fuck Tiles! (5, Informative)

dissy (172727) | about 2 months ago | (#47451545)

It's probably worth noting that in the Windows 8 and Windows 8.1 "leaks", technical previews, and consumer previews - ALL had the ability to enable a start menu by changing a registry key from 0 to 1, and ALL had that option removed in the final builds.

I have no reason to believe 9 will be different until after the grand master image is released to OEMs.

Re:Fuck Tiles! (1)

Billly Gates (198444) | about 2 months ago | (#47451581)

What if they are like the IOS applets in MacOSX where the emphasis is on the desktop?

As long as things do not go all full screen closed door syndrome I do not see it as a problem

Re:Fuck Tiles! (1)

MyNicknameSucks (1952390) | about 2 months ago | (#47451593)

Just pointing something out ...

I've seen people complain that Microsoft doesn't innovate, doesn't try new things.

And I've now seen people excoriate MS for trying new things and trying to innovate.

And, FWIW, some some aspects of Metro have been popping up elsewhere -- I don't think Metro has been an unmitigated disaster. At the venerable NYT, http://nyt.com/ [nyt.com] useful bits can "slide in" from the margins when you move the mouse over to the left side of the window. Tiles are the lingua franca of The Toronto Sun, http://torontosun.com/ [torontosun.com] .

  MS, however, did screw up some things. Well ... a lot of things with Metro for the desktop.

First, it's a UI designed for media consumption (and single- and double-tasking) -- that ship has sailed. Phones, tablets, and, to a lesser extent, notebooks (and, in my house, the WiiU) are for media consumption. Desktops are for productivity.

Second, Metro is actually pretty decent when you figure out how the keyboard shortcuts (win-key +s for searching, alt-tab to switch windows, alt-f4 to shut a window, etc.). But it's pretty awful if you go at it with a mouse -- and MS did not, at all, make this clear.

Third, the Start button thing is ... almost, but not quite, a red herring. If you're looking for a program that's two or three menus deep, good luck to you. It is usually faster (if you're a decent typist, at least) to hit the win key and type the name of the program. If it's a program you use frequently, it should probably be pinned to the taskbar. I've watched my kids on the Win8.x desktop -- the only time they bother with the Start button is when they log out. I think the problem here is that we've had nearly two decades of living with Start and it's proving to be a tough habit to break ...

Fourth, and probably worst of all, MS foisted Metro and its apps on users in situations where it shouldn't have. If you were writing up an email in Outlook (desktop program) and wanted to open the calculator to check your math, it defaulted to a Metro, full-screen, four function calculator. That's stupid. MS has two built-in picture viewers, both relatively equivalent. But, using the default programs app, the Metro app can be set as the default app for several times more file types than the desktop app ... even though the desktop app can open those files and be set as the default viewer through Explorer. That's bad. And some OS settings can only be set through Metro -- and that's inexcusable since Metro is not supposed to be for "power users". And there are lots of other goofy places where the Metro app is the default choice, even when launched through the desktop.

Re:Fuck Tiles! (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 months ago | (#47451637)

>Second, Metro is actually pretty decent when you figure out how the keyboard shortcuts (win-key +s for searching, alt-tab to switch windows, alt-f4 to shut a window, etc.). But it's pretty awful if you go at it with a mouse -- and MS did not, at all, make this clear.

So's BASH.

Re:Fuck Tiles! (1)

jez9999 (618189) | about 2 months ago | (#47451721)

Tiles can hold useful information that changes though. I dunno about you, but I always like to see what the current weather is every time I go to open an application.

Re:Fuck Tiles! (1)

ZeroPly (881915) | about 2 months ago | (#47451741)

The tiles are a nice idea, but are only useful if they are live. So if you go to the Start Menu, and the "Resource Monitor" tile is red, and shows 85% CPU use, sure - that's a good thing because you probably should click it. Or an email tile that shows high priority messages received. But this is too complicated a UI task for Microsoft to get correct.

Stopped writing about this shitty OS (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 months ago | (#47451309)

When I am in the bathroom, I let you know.

I hate morons (4, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 months ago | (#47451329)

If you look at some of the comments on that page, you get gems like the guy asking if the start button was the only reason someone didn't get Win8.

Sure, you can hack the OS to get a free start button, but that's not the point. You do NOT reward bad behavior, or the companies will never learn.

Chick-Fil-A won't sell you a sandwich without pickles? You're ok just pulling the pickles off? That's stupid. You complain to the manager to get the sandwich made correctly. If you never speak up, then they won't know what they're doing wrong.

The goal of any company SHOULD be to please their customers while making a tidy profit. The problem is that today's companies seem to be all about making an obscene profit while...wait...we have customers? Oh right. Our "customers" are the people who pay us to provide the data we mine from the people who pay us to use our products that don't do what they want them to.

Even versions of Windows the good ones? (0)

subanark (937286) | about 2 months ago | (#47451339)

So, basically it is:
Even versions: try out new stuff. See what people like, and what they don't
Odd versions: remove the stuff that people didn't like, polish everything else.

Windows 1 & 2: Too young, didn't use
Windows 3: Lots of people used this. A good UI over DOS
Windows 4: Noooooo... can't play my games :(
Windows 5: Yes... it works, its great, it gets attacked my malware, but I'll just reinstall
Windows 6: WTF is this shit. Sooo slow. And the "security enhancements" just suck to work around.
Windows 7: Well it isn't as slow anymore, and it isn't as vulnerable to malware.
Windows 8: Where's my start menu? Do you think I'm some kind of kid with this interface?
Windows 9: The future will be better tomorrow (quote from Dan Quayle).

Jesus Wept (1)

tuppe666 (904118) | about 2 months ago | (#47451447)

I am seriously tired of people rewriting history to get versions to make sense. The only thing that is partially true is that Microsoft does not make evolutionary transitions easy, but then all OS's have some difficulty with that...eg Pulseaudio, iOS upgrades on iPhone 3G. The difference this time is the shift to tabletifying the OS...and turning your computer into an electronics device instead of a computer. The underlying OS is still Vista version 3.

Re:Jesus Wept (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 months ago | (#47451765)

The underlying OS is still Vista version 3.

Vista R4, actually. And Windows "9" will be Vista R5 (a.k.a. NT 6.4).

I think Microsoft's marketing department should go totally old-school and release the next version of Windows with its real version number and sell boxed copies of "Windows NT 6.4" in that old-school italicized Times New Roman font.

Re:Even versions of Windows the good ones? (1)

aitikin (909209) | about 2 months ago | (#47451503)

I'm kind of lost on your choice of numbering. I would say that even versions suck and odd versions are great, but I don't know which one your referencing with each number. In my eyes, it's safe to say that every other major one

I guess I've always been confused about the numbering. Considering Windows 3, then there was 95, 98, 98SE (Second Edition, which was rock solid IMHO), ME (which was so awful I can't blame them for trying to forget it ever happened), XP, Vista, then we have seven. Even if you discount 95-98SE as 1 version of Windows, that gives us, 4 (95-98SE), 5 (ME), 6 (XP), 7 (Vista), then Windows 7Guess I'm kinda lost. Or are we supposed to treat 95-ME as all one version? That'd be kinda idiotic considering ME was definitely way different (ME took real DOS away for the first time, in case you're unaware), and even in 9x Windows versions there were some serious differences.

Re:Even versions of Windows the good ones? (1)

aitikin (909209) | about 2 months ago | (#47451575)

Stupid me, should read "...every other major one is terrible."

Re:Even versions of Windows the good ones? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 months ago | (#47451609)

You still fail to count properly because the non-NT kernels don't get counted into numbering.

NT->3.5 Because it looked like Windows 3.5

2K-> 4

XP->5

Vista->7

Windos 7 -> 7

Windows 8 -> 8

etc...

Re:Even versions of Windows the good ones? (1)

subanark (937286) | about 2 months ago | (#47451687)

Windows 4: Windows NT
Windows 5: XP
Windows 6: Vista

Yes, I know that some versions of the non-NT kernal in 4.0 (Windows 95 - Windows ME) are good.

My original post is meant more of a joke than anything else. I've selectively chosen data points to validate my claim.

Start Menu is not the problem... (1)

tuppe666 (904118) | about 2 months ago | (#47451347)

Ok the start menu is *a* problem, but really it *the* problem is strategy of Metro and Microsoft store, and turning open computing into a closed electronic device. I suspect none of this is rolled back, but the same old metro repackaged into a more palatable form like you got with the start button, and the rest store/electronics device kept for *cough* security reasons.

Where is Android compatibility on my GNU/Desktop goddamit!!!..at least there is chromebooks and I don't have to continue with the windows tax...hell now Microsoft has to compete because of success of Linux on the Desktop. I guess I still don't pay on windows machines. http://www.theverge.com/2014/7... [theverge.com]

Re:Start Menu is not the problem... (1)

chuckugly (2030942) | about 2 months ago | (#47451671)

I wish I had mod points.

I don't care about the Start menu; I don't spend much time in there, and even if I did, if I can't figure something that simple out I should stick to plumbing. The really annoying thing is that every file association now has to be redone to stop bringing up Modern (Metro) apps, and I have to be careful to install the Desktop versions of software I want.

That is the PITA, but it's so minor that I still use Win 8.x because yes, it's better than 7 overall.

So.. (1)

epyT-R (613989) | about 2 months ago | (#47451363)

Can you shut all those bullshit tiles off and have a simple text menu?

What's the big deal about win8? (3, Informative)

trybywrench (584843) | about 2 months ago | (#47451409)

I had to get a Windows 8 laptop, Surface 2, and Windows phone for work to test an application we're working on. I use OSX and Android day-to-day so from all the stories I expected to have an awful time trying to navigate through windows to even get to the application to start my testing/dev work but I don't see what the big deal is. The interface was intuitive enough for me ...maybe i didn't try to do enough, I just looked at the screen for the app, then click/touch it. :shrug:

Re:What's the big deal about win8? (2)

David_Hart (1184661) | about 2 months ago | (#47451505)

I had to get a Windows 8 laptop, Surface 2, and Windows phone for work to test an application we're working on. I use OSX and Android day-to-day so from all the stories I expected to have an awful time trying to navigate through windows to even get to the application to start my testing/dev work but I don't see what the big deal is. The interface was intuitive enough for me ...maybe i didn't try to do enough, I just looked at the screen for the app, then click/touch it. :shrug:

The big deal is when you have a laptop or a desktop without touch or you just hate having a screen full of fingerprints. When using a mouse, the windows 8 GUI is inefficient and poor to navigate. Of course, those unhappy with the Windows 8 or 8.1 interface can easily find add-ons that fix the Start menu and re-enable boot to desktop. Personally, I installed Start8 and have been happy ever since.

Re:What's the big deal about win8? (2, Interesting)

ArchieBunker (132337) | about 2 months ago | (#47451647)

Windows 8 just does dumb shit. The first box I setup had a touchscreen. The instructions say to move the mouse to the upper right corner. So I move the mouse and nothing happens. Check all the cables and everything but it all appears working. Finally figure out they want me to move the CURSOR to the upper right using my FINGER. The mouse is not even used!

Re:What's the big deal about win8? (2, Interesting)

jez9999 (618189) | about 2 months ago | (#47451769)

Actually, the worst thing fior me about Windows 8 when I had to use it wasn't even the lack of the start menu; it was the fact that every time you move the mouse cursor near the corner, Windows 8 pops up some stupid sidebar. I want to move the mouse cursor from one monitor to another and Windows 8 kept getting in the way of that every time as if I were using a tablet device that needed these gesture popups.

oh, please, it's never "leaked" (4, Insightful)

ChipMonk (711367) | about 2 months ago | (#47451445)

It's always, without exception, a strategic move by the PR department, to encourage public chatter about some product. And when it isn't, it's denounced by the company in question as "stolen."

IOW, yet another "Slashvertisement."

Re:oh, please, it's never "leaked" (1, Troll)

tomhath (637240) | about 2 months ago | (#47451543)

It's always, without exception, a strategic move by the PR department, to encourage public chatter about some product.

Yes, that's probably who leaked it. Kinda like those prototype Apple phones that get "lost" at bars and turn up in the hands of a tech gossip writer.

Re:oh, please, it's never "leaked" (1)

Mr_Silver (213637) | about 2 months ago | (#47451775)

It's always, without exception, a strategic move by the PR department, to encourage public chatter about some product.

As someone who actually had a product (they owned and managed) leak, I can tell you that it is never "always" a strategic move.

This might be orchestrated by the Microsoft PR team, but please don't assume that every leak is.

No viable desktop O/S's left... (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 months ago | (#47451525)

Windows 7 was a fine desktop O/S. MS should have simply put it into maintenance mode - charge $40/year to maintain it forever (simply fixing bugs). No need to ditch application software or existing hardware simply to get fixes (MS longtime strategy is much like Apple's - force users to 'upgrade' to get the latest fixes etc in order to recognize revenue). Its a bad strategy.

So now I don't know what I am going to do. Windows 8 sucks. There is every indication that Windows 9 will suck also. Mac OSX and hardware drives me bonkers (one menu bar at the top of the window? closing a window doesn't exit the app? - not to mention Apple's penchant for obviating hardware - witness the rapid demise of the iPad 1). Linux desktop is a joke.

And no, tablets are (expensive) toys. Not suitable for doing work that requires authoring content (OK for reading email and writing short replies, watching a video - but that's about it). Not to mention that touch interfaces are *very* limited in functionality and require course control icons to accommodate finger-sized 'clicks' and not viable for extended periods of us (i.e. 8 hour work day).

So basically I'm staying on Windows 7. When MS finally stops supporting it I have no idea what I am going to do in terms of a computer O/S...

Looks Like the Right Direction (1)

medv4380 (1604309) | about 2 months ago | (#47451547)

Can't be sure, but if this is real then I'm fine with the compromise of a tile metro app running in a window since rewriting all of them would take some time. Putting the tiles in the start menu where were there were only two buttons I ever touched is acceptable. I'll probably only ever use the PC Settings tile as long as the start menu works. This isn't exactly what I want, but what I want is XP updated to modern code, and they're intent on not doing that.

If it is like MacOSX I could go for it (0)

Billly Gates (198444) | about 2 months ago | (#47451627)

Macosx has its applets but on a desktop. The taskbar and start is there with applets running on a real desktop. Unplug keyboard and start stretches into full screen for tablets. DONE

I want aero back is my last complaint but that is soooo skeumorphism sigh. I think win 8 is anti skeumorphism taken to extremes.

Windows 8 and 2 in 1 laptops (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 months ago | (#47451635)

Just got a new laptop and I choose to go with a Sony 2 in 1. The laptop seems to work just fine both as a laptop and tablet. I went with windows 8 over mac for the dual uses reason. Ill be interested to see id Windows 9 is worth the upgrade. Windows NT kernel sounds promising.

So (2)

Murdoch5 (1563847) | about 2 months ago | (#47451711)

Next release of GNU/Linux still out preforms Windows in all the areas that matter.

Right, no Aero glass? (1)

Twinbee (767046) | about 2 months ago | (#47451719)

And how about Aero Glass? Do we get that back too?

I don't want spartan overly minimalist buttons, windows and dropdowns that hinder more than they help. I want delineated areas that indicate boundaries with beveled widgets that say "click me". I also don't want white-washed backgrounds that strain the eyes when I'm trying to work productively - I want various shades so I can see that the menu, taskbar or URL bar is not part of the main page.

i hate it less (1)

maliqua (1316471) | about 2 months ago | (#47451799)

games please run on != so the one thing i use windows for i can stop

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