Beta
×

Welcome to the Slashdot Beta site -- learn more here. Use the link in the footer or click here to return to the Classic version of Slashdot.

Thank you!

Before you choose to head back to the Classic look of the site, we'd appreciate it if you share your thoughts on the Beta; your feedback is what drives our ongoing development.

Beta is different and we value you taking the time to try it out. Please take a look at the changes we've made in Beta and  learn more about it. Thanks for reading, and for making the site better!

Dell Starts Accepting Bitcoin

Soulskill posted about 3 months ago | from the strength-in-numbers dept.

Bitcoin 152

An anonymous reader writes: Mainstream retail companies have been slow to adopt Bitcoin, perhaps skeptical of its long-term value or unwilling to expend the effort required to put a payment system into place. Today, Bitcoin adoption got a momentum boost with Dell's announcement that it will accept Bitcoin as a payment method. Dell is by far the biggest company to start accepting Bitcoin. It's interesting to note that Dell, like many of the larger companies interacting with Bitcoin right now, is doing so through a third-party payment processor. On one hand, it's good — we don't necessarily want each company building their own implementation and possibly screwing it up. On the other hand, it scales back slightly the decentralized and fee-less nature of Bitcoin, which are important features to many of its supporters.

cancel ×

152 comments

Sorry! There are no comments related to the filter you selected.

Makes sense (4, Insightful)

hodet (620484) | about 3 months ago | (#47484845)

The bitcoin community is highly technical. They will probably sell a lot of systems making it available as an option. They will convert their bitcoin to cash instantly minimizing currency risk.

Re:Makes sense (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 months ago | (#47484955)

Unless Dell suddenly sprouted a custom ASIC option nothing Dell sells will be useful for Bitcoin mining.
At current difficulty level and bitcoin value, CPU, GPU, and FPGA bitcoin hashing costs more electricity than it's worth.

Re:Makes sense (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 months ago | (#47485007)

Only if you're paying for the electricity, and not doing it on an older, forgotten set of systems in your datacenter.

Re:Makes sense (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 months ago | (#47485029)

It isn't an ASIC, but there are some Xeons coming out with a FPGA core. Might be worth crunching altcoin or dogecoin and then trading for BTC.

Re:Makes sense (1)

jones_supa (887896) | about 3 months ago | (#47485311)

Wait, what? Xeons with a FPGA core? That sounds pretty cool.

Re:Makes sense (1)

PopeRatzo (965947) | about 3 months ago | (#47485895)

Hey, I have a question about FPGA. I know almost nothing about them.

Can they be re-configured once the blocks are programmed? I don't know anything about processor design, but I'm curious if FPGAs are the kind of thing you configure once for a particular application and then that's it or if they can be reconfigured again later for another application.

See, I told you I don't know anything about these things. If it's a really stupid question, I'm apologize. I read a blurb about FPGA and was wondering.

Re:Makes sense (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 months ago | (#47486093)

You can think of FPGA's as a bunch of logical blocks (from simple logic gates to full adders/multipliers in some chips) and a repogrammable ROM storing information about block interconnects.

You can reprogram it many times to reconnect the blocks for another purpose, but programming process is usually pretty slow - like reflashing a BIOS.

Re:Makes sense (4, Interesting)

Charliemopps (1157495) | about 3 months ago | (#47485325)

The bitcoin community is highly technical. They will probably sell a lot of systems making it available as an option. They will convert their bitcoin to cash instantly minimizing currency risk.

I know a lot of highly technical people, and I don't know a single person that owns a single bitcoin... so I question your conclusions. I hear a lot of talk about bitcoins, but not much about who has any sizable assets in bitcoins so I sometimes question if the entire market might just be 1 random guy scamming us all.

Re:Makes sense (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 months ago | (#47485547)

The only people who use bitcoins are drug addicts. It's the currency of choice for the same kinds of people that cook meth in a bathtub or set their hair on fire making hash oil.

Bitcoin is a stupid currency for stupid people.

Re:Makes sense (2)

LF11 (18760) | about 3 months ago | (#47485579)

Boy there must be a lot of drug addicts that shop at Dell, TigerDirect, and Overstock. Damn.

Re:Makes sense (1)

PopeRatzo (965947) | about 3 months ago | (#47485905)

Boy there must be a lot of drug addicts that shop at Dell, TigerDirect, and Overstock.

Not to mention the ones working there.

Re:Makes sense (1)

LF11 (18760) | about 3 months ago | (#47485573)

Because the smart ones don't talk about it. Think about it: if bitcoin takes off (and the next bubble is proceeding along right on schedule) and bitcoin does poke north of 100k each, what do you think is going to happen to everyone who mentioned having any?

Re:Makes sense (1)

PopeRatzo (965947) | about 3 months ago | (#47485925)

and bitcoin does poke north of 100k each

*teehee*

I can get you a good deal on some beanie babies.

Re: Makes sense (1)

LF11 (18760) | about 3 months ago | (#47486151)

It'll be at least three years. I'm not worried, anybody that thought big retailers would ever even acknowledge its existence were nuts and now look.

Re:Makes sense (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 months ago | (#47486799)

Yeah, he probably has a better chance of winning Powerball than his mighty JesusCoin being worth $100,000 in a few years.

Re:Makes sense (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 months ago | (#47485681)

We recently got hit with a bunch of paypal charges that went to steam wallets and then to bitcoin (according to valve looking into it) and lost $400. Valve was nice and gave us the money back but it's now a new way to launder money from other sources once they brute force your account.

Re:Makes sense (2)

hodet (620484) | about 3 months ago | (#47485719)

Let me rephrase. There are some highly technical people in the bitcoin community. There are some not so technical people as well. There are many technical people not involved in bitcoin. It's a big world man.

No kidding (0)

Sycraft-fu (314770) | about 3 months ago | (#47486671)

I think a more accurate description of the Bitcoin community would be "highly greedy" or "has a poor understanding of economics". I don't think technical has anything to do with it. In fact if you've some technical knowledge, some understanding of the size of the financial system, and then knowledge about the bitcoin protocol you quickly come to the realization that it has a deal breaker problem (it has several in fact) and that is that it can't scale to be the amazin' world wide currency the faithful want it to be, it can't handle the transaction load that things like the Visa network does, because of the nature of the protocol.

So all the technically savvy people I know do not involve themselves in bitcoin.

Basically I see a few types of people who are in to bitcoin:

1) Hedge fund traders/scammers/etc. Basically people out to make a quick buck. They don't believe in Bitcoin other than they believe they can make money on it due to the volatility, complete counterparty risk, etc. It is just a market to be exploited and left.

2) Self described "Crypto-anarchists" aka "greedy wannabe libertarians" who think that bitcoin will free them from the tyranny of having to pay taxes for such unnecessary things like roads, clean water, and such. They like it because they think it'll lead to a world where they get to keep their money and be free of laws.

3) Doomsdayers/gold-bugs who have a poor understanding of the concept of money (namely that it is a theoretical construct and always has been, regardless of what item is used to represent it) and think that the world and economy are doomed, but if you have the right magic currency, you'll be ok. Because bitcoin has something "backing it" that makes it worth something no matter what and thus it is great.

4) People using it for money laundering, like the Silk Road. They use it because they figure it is harder to trace than dollars/euros/etc and so use it for payment for illegal items.

Re:Makes sense (1)

Chris Mattern (191822) | about 3 months ago | (#47485571)

The bitcoin community is highly technical. They will probably sell a lot of systems making it available as an option.

Sure, what with Dells being so popular with the highly technical community.

Re:Makes sense (1)

hodet (620484) | about 3 months ago | (#47485735)

Laptops are commodity items. Jaguars are popular with rich people. Some rich people drive crappy old Honda Civics. What's your point again?

Re:Makes sense (1)

PopeRatzo (965947) | about 3 months ago | (#47486123)

Some rich people drive crappy old Honda Civics.

Citation?

Re:Makes sense (1)

hodet (620484) | about 3 months ago | (#47486891)

http://www.forbes.com/sites/jo... [forbes.com]

Quote from the article
"But what that analysis also told me was that 61 percent of people who earn $250,000 or more aren’t buying luxury brands at all. They’re buying the same Toyotas, Hondas and Fords as the rest of us. So what cars are preferred by the rich?"

Re:Makes sense (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 months ago | (#47486291)

The bitcoin community is highly technical

That's a lie, and Dell's actions prove that it is a lie. Dell sells mainly to old people that know nothing about computers and to technically illiterate moron pointy-head bosses. Technical people do not buy their overpriced garbage. For example, my piece of shit Dell laptop we bought three months ago was $3,200 to get more than 8 Gbytes of RAM and more than a late 1990s era resolution, and it is overpriced as hell. A MacBook would have been $1k cheaper, but the moron that owns the company I work for wanted to buy Dell. Of course it was more expensive and hasn't worked for more than hour without blue screening. Of course Dell's four hour guaranteed response means that they'll tell us no to the repair within four hours. It doesn't offer any guarantee that they'll honour the warranty.

Again, Bitcoin users are morons as proved by the market research by Dell. While Dell is horrible at their attempt to make computers, they are actually masterful marketers. They know that morons buy their computers.

Re:Makes sense (2)

supremebob (574732) | about 3 months ago | (#47486817)

I wouldn't totally agree with this. Dell occasionally has some huge markdown sales where you can get a PC for less than it would cost you to buy the parts and OS from Newegg.

Not actually accepting bitcoins. RTFA (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 months ago | (#47484847)

Dell is using coinbase to convert the bitcoins to dollars, because no large business in their right mind would store any real assets in bitcoins.

If anything, this demonstrates another example of how bitcoin will never catch on as an actual currency. It's a middleman at best (real money converted to bitcoins, bitcoins converted back to real money).

Re:Not actually accepting bitcoins. RTFA (1)

bondsbw (888959) | about 3 months ago | (#47484979)

If anything, this demonstrates another example of how bitcoin will never catch on as an actual currency. It's a middleman at best

"Actual" currency is just the middleman to trading goods and services. So I guess dollars will never catch on either.

Re:Not actually accepting bitcoins. RTFA (1)

dugancent (2616577) | about 3 months ago | (#47485091)

The middleman being the federal government.

Re:Not actually accepting bitcoins. RTFA (1)

Enry (630) | about 3 months ago | (#47485373)

Actual currency has a value that's generally standardized and stabilized by the output of the economy of the country and its value is backed by the government. For all its faults, fiat currency is way more stable over time than bitcoin and its derivatives.

Re:Not actually accepting bitcoins. RTFA (1)

Junta (36770) | about 3 months ago | (#47485715)

"Actual" currency is just the middleman to trading goods and services.

But people 'save' currency and plan retirements around quantities of it and such. Value fluctuations are real and troublesome of course, but in general this works. I give a company 30,000 dollars and they will keep it in an account for some non-trivial time and report their quarterly success in terms of those figures. They will at least talk about the value of currency in a manner that assumes pretty much absolute stability over 3 months and even project their expectations for how much money they will get and spend over the next several years.

All the companies worth their salt that elect to engage in bitcoin in a way to get publicity, but none want to plan for the value of the 'currency' for more than 15 minutes. You won't see dell doing a promotional price in terms of the bitcoin value, but rather you get the price converted to bitcoin as you pay for it with a quote that is invalid 20 minutes later.

Using bitcoins requires capital gain/loss calc ... (2)

perpenso (1613749) | about 3 months ago | (#47486759)

If anything, this demonstrates another example of how bitcoin will never catch on as an actual currency. It's a middleman at best

"Actual" currency is just the middleman to trading goods and services. So I guess dollars will never catch on either.

No. Goods and services are not only traded using currency. They may be traded using other non-currency assets as well. However trading assets has a capital gain/loss tax implication in the U.S.

A recent IRS advisory said virtual currency is to be treated as an assent not a currency. So lets say you receive some bitcoins. At some future date you spend these bitcoins. Since these bitcoins are an asset you have to account for their gain or loss in value for the days that you held them and declare a loss or gain on your taxes. In short spending bitcoins has the paperwork overhead of selling stocks, its not like spending dollars at all.

Ex. You buy one coin at $500 and another at $600. Coins are priced at $800 at the time of a future purchase. You buy something for $1,200, 1.5 coins. Using FIFO (first in first out) your basis for the outgoing 1.5 coins is $500 + $300 = $800, and the basis for the returning 0.5 coins is still $300. You experienced a gain of $400 on the 1.5 coins at the time of the sale and that $400 would seem to be taxable income. Apologies if I botched the math, hopefully the point gets across.

So if you buy a laptop from Dell and the IRS discovers you paid in bitcoins you may be expected to provide some sort of accounting for the coins used, date acquired, value on that date, etc.

Re:Not actually accepting bitcoins. RTFA (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 months ago | (#47484995)

Anything that is freely interchangeable with "real money", is itself "real money".

I've been a critic of Bitcoin in the past, and still am in several respects, but let's not pretend this proves that we were totally right the whole time. It won't fool anyone, and comes off as a desperate denial.

Re:Not actually accepting bitcoins. RTFA (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 months ago | (#47485009)

I wonder how many stories you have/will have to write "another example of how bitcoin will never catch on as an actual currency". I'm guessing at least 1 a day. sorry to be so negative, but I really think that people that hate the idea of bitcoin would change their minds once they really took a deep look at it.

Re:Not actually accepting bitcoins. RTFA (2)

Cardoor (3488091) | about 3 months ago | (#47485089)

dell, as most large public companies in the U.S. , report earning in USD.. so much like a company doing business abroad in Euros or pounds, will ultimately need to convert their non-usd accounts back to USD for reporting purposes. by your argument, dell selling computers in france and generating euros would be a sham because they then call their bank to convert to USD (their reporting currency) at some point.

As things stand now, there isn't an effective method for hedging BTC exposures, and you couldn't legitimately blame them for not (at this point) wanting to take on that kind of volatility. nonetheless, them allowing payment to be made in BTC is a step in the direction of wider adoption which may have self-reinforcing knock-on effects.

p.s. yes, i know dell is no longer a public company. but in this regard (accounting and cash operations), calling them public doesn't change the calculus.

Re:Not actually accepting bitcoins. RTFA (1)

Junta (36770) | about 3 months ago | (#47485747)

by your argument, dell selling computers in france and generating euros would be a sham because they then call their bank to convert to USD (their reporting currency) at some point.

If 'at some point' is 'when tax laws and reporting make it most effective' it is a bit different than 'at some point' being seconds after the sale, with quotes longer than 15 minutes being considered invalid.

Notably dell will announce products with MSRP in dollars, euros, pounds, etc. They will not do the same in BTC, they will instead do a just-in-time quote that is invalid about as quickly as they can get away with. There is no even vague assumption about BTC value from one hour to the next, unlike the other currencies.

Not actually accepting bitcoins. RTFA (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 months ago | (#47485151)

Your logic is bad - sorry. If I can pay them directly in bitcoins, they accept bitcoins. That's what accepting means. What they do with them after that point does not in any way change the flat out fact that they accept them.

Re:Not actually accepting bitcoins. RTFA (2)

mythosaz (572040) | about 3 months ago | (#47485411)

Except they never, ever have a BTC.

They don't do anything after the fact with them, because they never touch one.

They touch USD, transferred to them by their payment processor - and nothing else.

Re:Not actually accepting bitcoins. RTFA (1)

LF11 (18760) | about 3 months ago | (#47485597)

You actually have no idea whether they own bitcoins. Payment processors do other things than just convert bitcoins to dollars. They provide a whole integrated solution, including QR codes, invoicing, tracking, accounting, all that good stuff. If you are a merchant, you may accept your payments in dollars, bitcoin, or a mix.

Dell may be keeping 5% of their bitcoin payments as bitcoin. Or all of it. (Or none of it.) We don't know, and you shouldn't assume.

Re:Not actually accepting bitcoins. RTFA (1)

Kjella (173770) | about 3 months ago | (#47486159)

Which is pretty much exactly what VISA does when I want to pay with my NOK in USD. I don't have to find an ATM, withdraw cash and deliver US bills and that's generally what we mean by "Do you accept VISA?". If I can hand over Bitcoins and they handle the conversion it means they accept Bitcoins. Just like you in some third world tourist destinations can pay with US dollars, they'll just keep it until they can exchange it for local money. Sure, it's not a native Bitcoin economy but it is on the way to using Bitcoin as any other foreign currency which is a big step up.

Re:Not actually accepting bitcoins. RTFA (2)

PRMan (959735) | about 3 months ago | (#47485263)

Overstock is now keeping 10% of their bitcoin sales in bitcoin:

http://newsbtc.com/2014/05/02/patrick-byrne-overstock-com-10-percent-bitcoin-income-bitcoin/ [newsbtc.com]

Re:Not actually accepting bitcoins. RTFA (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 months ago | (#47485337)

Roight.

Mr. Byrne revealed that bitcoin purchases amount to under 0.1 percent of total transactions made on the site, but added that the company is keeping 10 percent of their bitcoin income in its digital form

10% of 0.1% of 1.3B revenue (FY2013), or whole $10k a month in Bitcoin. That there's big business, yep.

TL: "Hype about Overstock accepting BTC died down, gotta stoke it somehow!"

Re:Not actually accepting bitcoins. RTFA (1)

mythosaz (572040) | about 3 months ago | (#47485391)

They might be keeping 10k/mo in BTC, but they're doing under (but near) 0.1%, that's about 1M in sales in BTC a year.

That's not a joke.

Re:Not actually accepting bitcoins. RTFA (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 months ago | (#47486157)

Yes it is. It's completly a joke. Just like Bitcoin has always been.

Re:Not actually accepting bitcoins. RTFA (2)

unrtst (777550) | about 3 months ago | (#47485537)

I just noticed a couple days ago that newegg.com is also accepting bitcoin. Not sure how long they've been doing that, but it made me wonder how many other places where. The list in TFS was a surprise to me.

Screw you, Dell. (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 months ago | (#47484853)

Won't be buying from you anymore. Let this idiotic cryptocurrency fad die.

Until dell can pay it's bills with Bitcoin.... (4, Insightful)

Isca (550291) | about 3 months ago | (#47484857)

....It needs to go through a middleman.

Employee Wages and benefits
Suppliers
Taxes
Real Estate
Utilities

Most all of these things need cash. And even if they could be paid in bitcoin most companies wouldn't want to do that infrastructure themselves and would outsource it.

Re:Until dell can pay it's bills with Bitcoin.... (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 months ago | (#47484905)

How about Apostrophe Coin? You'd be rich!

Re:Until dell can pay it's bills with Bitcoin.... (0)

ArcadeMan (2766669) | about 3 months ago | (#47485431)

I don't see how that's flamebait, because the parent title is actually "Until dell can pay it is bills with Bitcoin"

And it's funny how he capitalized Bitcoin but not Dell.

Re:Until dell can pay it's bills with Bitcoin.... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 months ago | (#47486279)

It was modded that way by Isca. He has sockpuppet accounts. Sadly, some people actually give a shit about their nerd-fag-score on slashdot.

Re: Until dell can pay it's bills with Bitcoin.... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 months ago | (#47484915)

A lot of those things are already outsourced, so much of the decision is based on their choice of outsourcing companies.

Until dell can pay it's bills with Bitcoin.... (1)

JcMorin (930466) | about 3 months ago | (#47484919)

Of course they are converting it, but if they have a supplier in China that will accept Bitcoin too and they want prefer using Bitcoin to save days and thousands of $ in processing fees. Have you ever done an international wire transfer? It's long and painful while Bitcoin is free and instant. Nobody expected the market to change at once, just like the email didn't remove all fax machines at once, but 1 at the time.

Re: Until dell can pay it's bills with Bitcoin.... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 months ago | (#47484999)

Bin coin has to much Flux in it for them to hold it for long

Re: Until dell can pay it's bills with Bitcoin.... (1)

canadiannomad (1745008) | about 3 months ago | (#47485055)

True to a point, but if they receive in bitcoin and convert to Yuan directly to pay their suppliers then they may save a load in exchange and bank fees.

Re: Until dell can pay it's bills with Bitcoin.... (1)

PRMan (959735) | about 3 months ago | (#47485275)

No the CHINESE company converts it to Yuan.

Re:Until dell can pay it's bills with Bitcoin.... (2)

Kjella (173770) | about 3 months ago | (#47485189)

Large companies don't have the same kinds of issues small companies have. For one they're likely to do net exchange after they've paid off all expenses in that currency and large volumes get better rates very close to the interbank rate. I know my bank charges the interbank rate + 1.75% for foreign exchange, that's fine if we're talking about small sums but if I was buying say a $400,000 vacation home abroad I sure wouldn't be paying $7000 in fees. There are services that specialize in this, but the average person doesn't need them.

Re:Until dell can pay it's bills with Bitcoin.... (1)

TeknoHog (164938) | about 3 months ago | (#47484921)

IOW, nobody should use $new_tech until it works everywhere?

Re:Until dell can pay it's bills with Bitcoin.... (1)

NoImNotNineVolt (832851) | about 3 months ago | (#47485015)

IOW, nobody should use $new_tech until it's conclusively demonstrated that universal buy-in won't result in one individual (or group of individuals) owning trillions of dollars in wealth.

Here's looking at you, Satoshi Nakamoto.

Re:Until dell can pay it's bills with Bitcoin.... (1)

itzly (3699663) | about 3 months ago | (#47485059)

Nobody should have bought Microsoft products until Bill Gates had conclusively demonstrated he wouldn't get billions of dollars.

Re:Until dell can pay it's bills with Bitcoin.... (1)

NoImNotNineVolt (832851) | about 3 months ago | (#47485157)

I agree.

People like Bill Gates are personally responsible for the absurd wealth disparity in this country.

But Bill only has a few tens of billions. Satoshi owns over 7% of the total number of BTC that will ever exist. If BTC become the world's primary currency, then the $240T in global wealth will be spread over the 21M total possible BTC, leaving Satoshi wealthy to the tune of $17T, or several orders of magnitude more wealthy than Bill (without even accounting for the expansion of the economy between now and then).

I think it's safe to say that if one person had $17T today, they'd have more power than any other entity on the planet, to be used for good or for ill. Considering that we know very little about Satoshi, I don't believe it's wise to go too far down this path.

Re:Until dell can pay it's bills with Bitcoin.... (1)

jones_supa (887896) | about 3 months ago | (#47485355)

What would happen in practice if Satoshi now started to convert his mountains of Bitcoins to U.S. dollars?

No it is not. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 months ago | (#47485039)

This is not new tech. US dollars, Euros, Pounds Sterling, you name it are represented digitally. The only thing bitcoin offers is to do that anonymously and a network that is accessible by the ordinary person - not just banks.

I also think Dell is using the accepting Bitcoin announcement as a PR stunt - a gimmick.

How many geeks are gonna think ,"Dell is cool! I'll buy from them!" and then use their VISA card?

And considering how volatile, insecure, and all the other problems that Bitcoin has, Dell better limit purchases by this "money".

With a government backed currency, it's highly unlikely that the money will be worth MUCH less the next day - even in some banana republic. Or someone orders something via Bitcoin, Bitcoin skyrockets the next day and the customer's $1,500 order now costs him $3,000 - they are gonna cancel or be REAL pissed.

There is a lot of currency risk with Bitcoin - over and above normal risk with government backed currencies. government backed currencies have central banks to limit volatility and stabilize its value - Bitcoin does not.

If examined further, experienced currency traders could come up with even more.

Re:No it is not. (2)

KramberryKoncerto (2552046) | about 3 months ago | (#47485339)

US isn't seeing any of the benefits (yet) because it's a massive power that can borrow and print money willy-nilly, and the currency is mostly under control at the moment. But not all countries are like that. There are countries where something like Bitcoin can be a viable alternative to official currency, like Argentina [economist.com] . Bitcoin is flawed, but it guards against certain attacks that can be performed to a currency, in a way that is sometimes useful.

On the other hand, the way Dell accepts Bitcoin doesn't bear a lot of risk; a third-party accepts Bitcoin for them and pay them in cash, and absorbs fluctuation risk in return for some fees. It relies on customers bearing the risks themselves. It isn't a big step for Bitcoin; it is only a very small step towards forming a sufficient number of nodes of a skeleton that may or may not turn into an actual ecosystem that eventually circulates Bitcoin. But isn't a terrible decision for Dell either.

Re:Until dell can pay it's bills with Bitcoin.... (1)

DerekLyons (302214) | about 3 months ago | (#47485299)

This. It's the the thing that the "it scales back slightly the decentralized and fee-less nature of Bitcoin, which are important features to many of its supporters" crowd doesn't grasp. (One of the many things about how the real world works that many BTC fanboys don't grasp.)

it's (0)

antdude (79039) | about 3 months ago | (#47485507)

FYI. It's = It (i/ha)s.

news hijack, anyone? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 months ago | (#47484865)

Dell's accepting bitcoin! Now that we have that out of the way, allow me to complain about payment processors ruining bitcoin. Now that's news!

well duh (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 months ago | (#47484935)

nobody wants bitcoin but everybody wants money. news at 11.

Can I pay the tax in Bitcoins? (1)

jfdavis668 (1414919) | about 3 months ago | (#47485037)

How do they forward the taxes owed to the IRS? Or is it just considered barter?

Re:Can I pay the tax in Bitcoins? (1)

itzly (3699663) | about 3 months ago | (#47485085)

They just convert it to dollars.

No (1)

Sycraft-fu (314770) | about 3 months ago | (#47486629)

You pay taxes in US Dollars in the US. You need to convert anything to that. Like if you sold a bunch of goods to someone in Europe and got paid in euros. No problem, and you can keep some of that in Euros if you like, but you need to sell some of those Euros to a bank (or other entity) and get dollars to pay the IRS. They only take dollars.

Fee-less? (1)

jqpublic13 (935916) | about 3 months ago | (#47485067)

it scales back slightly the decentralized and fee-less nature of Bitcoin

Fee-less? Like the charges that all the credit card processors levy? ...or do you mean hidden fees that are just passed on to the customer?

Re:Fee-less? (1)

PRMan (959735) | about 3 months ago | (#47485581)

You can send any amount of bitcoin anywhere in the world for free. The miners usually choose to take the ones where a fee was attached (in order of highest fee because that's partially how they get paid), but someone sent $3 million USD for free a few months ago, so it can happen.

Slow shipping (0)

GameboyRMH (1153867) | about 3 months ago | (#47485099)

You can bet every computer purchased through BitCoin is going to make a stop by the NSA. Buying a computer with untraceable currency AND having an interest in cryptography!? Either one alone would get you labelled an "extremist."

Re:Slow shipping (1)

Isca (550291) | about 3 months ago | (#47485197)

Most anyone out of the country is already choosing not to purchase american built (or processed) equipment after the NSA scandals so it really doesn't matter now at this point does it?

I suspect it'll be a long time until it does.

Re:Slow shipping (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 months ago | (#47485331)

Most anyone out of the country is already choosing not to purchase american built (or processed) equipment

Citation?

Untraceable (3, Informative)

ArcadeMan (2766669) | about 3 months ago | (#47485423)

I wish people would stop using the term untraceable when talking about those crypto-currencies, because the blockchain will forever hold every single transaction it has ever processed. It's the complete opposite of untraceable.

Re:Untraceable (2)

JesseMcDonald (536341) | about 3 months ago | (#47486105)

... the blockchain will forever hold every single transaction it has ever processed. It's the complete opposite of untraceable.

That depends on what you're trying to trace. While it's true that the transactions themselves are public knowledge, they don't include any personally identifiable information. Tracing the movement of bitcoins through a series of single-use addresses on the blockchain is easy; tracing the changes in real-world ownership is an entirely different matter. Unlike money moving through a series of bank accounts, there is no central entity to tell you who controls each address.

Re:Slow shipping (1)

PRMan (959735) | about 3 months ago | (#47485587)

Are they loading Windows on it? Then it probably doesn't matter.

But /why/? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 months ago | (#47485319)

Why accept bitcoin? Bitcoin is a mathematical experiment, but all of the alleged real-world advantages have already been disproven - except for the "no inflation", which is irrelevant as a regulator can just change the definition of a bitcoin in the same way as they changed the definition of a USD in the '70s.

There is nothing to gain from it unless you've invested in bitcoin and want to pump it up a bit.

Re:But /why/? (1)

mythosaz (572040) | about 3 months ago | (#47485347)

Because, as is made clear in the summary, Dell does not accept BitCoin, they only accept USD.

A third-party payment processor gives Dell USD on your behalf, the same sort of USD Dell gets when their payment processor accepts a credit card.

Re:But /why/? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 months ago | (#47485409)

Dell does not accept credit cards - their third party payment processor gives Dell USD on your behalf, etc. etc.

If it's just a matter of accepting more "currencies", why start off by accepting bitcoin rather than (in US) renminbi or Euro or GBP?

Re:But /why/? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 months ago | (#47485479)

all of the alleged real-world advantages have already been disproven

When did that happen? As of about a week ago, none of them had been disproven and most of them had been confirmed on many occasions. Please, share the news! We need to know.

Re:But /why/? (1)

Junta (36770) | about 3 months ago | (#47485811)

- except for the "no inflation"

I don't think anyone can claim that bitcoin cannot have inflation. It has hyperinflation and hyperdeflation in pretty frequent intervals.

They can claim that the inflation/deflation is not within the reach of government manipulation, but it definitely does happen in very chaotic unpredictable ways. One's tinfoil hat has to be on very tight to see that as an improvement.

Re:But /why/? (2)

JesseMcDonald (536341) | about 3 months ago | (#47486281)

I don't think anyone can claim that bitcoin cannot have inflation. It has hyperinflation and hyperdeflation in pretty frequent intervals.

Bitcoin has an extremely predictable rate of supply inflation (the kind meant here) which follows an exponential decay curve and will be under 1%/yr. by 2020 or so. There could be some very minor supply deflation after that point due to people losing their keys, but it should never become a major factor.

The price inflation and deflation you allude to is partly due to being a very young high-risk/high-reward venture. If Bitcoin is to reach even a fraction of its potential as a currency, the price per bitcoin must end up several orders of magnitude higher than it is now to match the increased demand, or there simply wouldn't be enough to go around. On the other hand, concerted political opposition could render it useless in most of the major markets. Whether the innovators or the politicians will win in the long run is anyone's guess at this point, thus the risk.

The other part, which is likely to dominate in the long-term if Bitcoin succeeds, is a reflection of normal changes in the demand for money. Central banks usually try to dampen out demand-driven price swings by manipulating the supply of money, but they are in fact an essential part of balancing present and future demand for goods, and suppressing them leads to an economy-wide misallocation of resources.

It's not really accepting Bitcoin any more than (1)

Registered Coward v2 (447531) | about 3 months ago | (#47485387)

they're accepting GE stock because I can sell stock to a third party and use the money to buy a Dell product. Makes for a good headline though.

Re:It's not really accepting Bitcoin any more than (1)

Guspaz (556486) | about 3 months ago | (#47485923)

By your reasoning, Dell doesn't accept credit cards either.

No Doge? Much sad. (1)

ArcadeMan (2766669) | about 3 months ago | (#47485401)

How much is that computer? Three billion Doge!

Re:No Doge? Much sad. (1)

TeknoHog (164938) | about 3 months ago | (#47485601)

If you want to use Doge to pay for computers, there's at least Bitelectronics [bitelectronics.net] . I have no connection to them except being a happy customer (in the same country though, I can't speak for their international shipping).

Dumb (1)

nine-times (778537) | about 3 months ago | (#47485491)

it scales back slightly the decentralized and fee-less nature of Bitcoin, which are important features to many of its supporters.

This is a dumb complaint. Even if you think Bitcoin is great, there's no way it's going to do away with financial middlemen and transaction fees. Those things exist for too many different reasons. And even the fees it will eventually do away with, there would have to be some intermediate state between now and then, where businesses rely on some other business to deal with the processing of Bitcoin transactions, since Bitcoin hasn't become accepted as real currency yet.

Oh yes, I know, I'm going to get a whole speech about how Bitcoin is just as real as the US dollar because fiat currency is all made up and imaginary and all prices are set by the market and bla bla bla. I'm not claiming that Bitcoin isn't worth anything, but just that it hasn't been accepted as currency yet. If I can pay my bills or buy something with Bitcoin, it's the exception and not the rule. Plus, the value of Bitcoin is still very volatile. In practical terms, buying Bitcoins is more comparable to a speculative stock investment than it is to converting money into another currency.

So the reality of what's happening is, due to some level or customer demand, or maybe because they got a no-lose deal from their bitcoin processor, or perhaps it's just a publicity stunt, Dell has decided to accept a volatile stock as payment. Whatever you pay in Bitcoin immediately gets turned into dollars-- so Dell is really still working with dollars, but they've allowed a bitcoin payment processor to work as an intermediary to convert to the transaction into dollars.

It's a neat development, but you can't expect Dell to operate on Bitcoins at this point.

Re:Dumb (1)

Junta (36770) | about 3 months ago | (#47485793)

If I can pay my bills or buy something with Bitcoin, it's the exception and not the rule

That's a low bar to set. If you can get a price or invoice in BTC that gives you a month to pay it off, then I'll start considering it a viable 'currency'. Accepting bitcoin with just-in-time pricing is very low risk and it's cheap for a company to do that for publicity with no downside. A company need not believe in bitcoin in all to do it. A company believes in bitcoin if it will commit to a long term price for anything it supplies or purchases.

comment (-1, Flamebait)

totyakokeya (3754297) | about 3 months ago | (#47485791)

$97/hr pavivdv by Google, I am making a good salary from home $5500-$7000/week , which is amazing, under a year ago I was jobless in a horrible economy. I thank God every day I was blessed with these instructions and now it's my duty to pay it forward and share it with Everyone, Here is I started,,, >>>>>>>>> WWW.PAYRAP.cm

I always come here for the gnashing of teeth (0)

LF11 (18760) | about 3 months ago | (#47485799)

Whenever there is any serious bitcoin news, I come here to read the bitter comments. Just a few months ago, I was seeing comments such as, "wake me up when a REAL retailer like Amazon or Dell takes bitcoin."

Well, now Dell takes bitcoin. Don't you think maybe you should read up a little about how this newfangled Public Key Cryptography works? These damn kids and their goddamn bubbles. Shoulda bought when it was $50 last year, you'd be paying off your house...

But now it's over $600!!!!!! NO WAY are you going to pay $630 for magical mystery internet money!! No way in hell. That's OK, you know. It's deflationary, after all. It doesn't really matter when you get in, whether now or next year after it adds another right-hand zero. It'll always seem too high, because that's what a deflationary currency does from an inflationary perspective.

It's amazing how a site supposedly for nerds has such a significant audience of people who sound like willfully ignorant, prejudiced luddites. "Currency of drug addicts" is a long-dead trope. Isn't the software appealing even if only for its technical merits and solution to the Two Generals' Problem?

Re:I always come here for the gnashing of teeth (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 months ago | (#47485951)

And now the argument is "but they don't accept Bitcoin...it gets converted to dollars". With that logic, they don't accept credit cards or purchase orders either!

Re:I always come here for the gnashing of teeth (1)

theskipper (461997) | about 3 months ago | (#47486019)

Well said. There was the same kind of negativity back in the 90's when the internet as a whole was taking off. The ones who missed out gradually turn from whining to reluctantly adopting, then it went mainstream like it was perfectly natural from the get-go.

The same will happen with digital currency. The mentality is not unlike the stock market. The ones who whine the most are the ones who didn't expend the effort to understand stuff early and therefore missed out. It's happened before and will happen again, there's a perfect example right here in this thread.

http://slashdot.org/comments.p... [slashdot.org]

Re: I always come here for the gnashing of teeth (1)

LF11 (18760) | about 3 months ago | (#47486211)

Thanks. It is wierd watching it happen, though. One would think that people would start giving it the benefit of the doubt, though. I am surprised at how strenuous the naysayers are and how much they seem to lack even basic technical curiousity about this new technology.

You are correct, though. Perhaps it is just wierd because this particular technology moves much faster than many, and its very nature is an affront to certain well-cherished white elephants.

Re: I always come here for the gnashing of teeth (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 months ago | (#47486659)

...or perhaps nobody is interested because nobody actually *needs* bitcoin or the functions it provides. Why convert my dollars to bitcoins in order to pay for something, if I can pay in dollars directly? Just so I can prove to people with a superiority-complex like yourself that you're not actually superior? Seems like a futile effort. I think I'll pass.

Re:I always come here for the gnashing of teeth (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 months ago | (#47486567)

"There was the same kind of negativity back in the 90's when the internet as a whole was taking off."
Yeah. All the computer magazines were in horror about this new phenomenon. Oh wait. No. They were not.

You must be talking nonsense then.

Re:I always come here for the gnashing of teeth (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 months ago | (#47486577)

"[..] then it went mainstream like it was perfectly natural from the get-go. The same will happen with digital currency."

If you are arguing that Bitcoin is gonna be the Facebook of money, then I think we can agree.

Re:I always come here for the gnashing of teeth (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 months ago | (#47486591)

"The ones who whine the most are the ones who didn't expend the effort to understand"
Because either you're WITH us, or you do NOT UNDERSTAND us... ...yeah, right.

Re:I always come here for the gnashing of teeth (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 months ago | (#47486545)

" Isn't the software appealing even if only for its technical merits and solution to the Two Generals' Problem?"
No. Not a single bit. And even if it was, that would be completely irrelevant.

Re:I always come here for the gnashing of teeth (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 months ago | (#47486861)

> It's amazing how a site supposedly for nerds has such a significant audience of people who sound like willfully ignorant, prejudiced luddites.

Slashdot is greying. Nerds aren't immune to the get-off-my-lawn effect.
A lot of us liked new stuff because we were young and rebellious.
A few of us liked new stuff because new was interesting.
A lot of us couldn't tell the difference until they were no longer rebellious.

Fee Less? WTF ARE You People? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 months ago | (#47486257)

It's obvious from the comments I scanned over that the /. crowd is not very up on bitcoin.

You wanna send money for free with bitcoin? Be prepared to wait.... weeks perhaps. On the other hand... paying a measly .60$ transaction fee will send a hundred million bitcoin in 15 minutes.

Love the 'Anonymous' coin bs too. Shame on you, you bunch of insensitive clods. There are coins that have been created to be difficult to trace... bitcoin is not one of them and never has been.

Dell accepting bitcoin also has nothing to do with 'ruining' the decentralization of bitcoin. Any more than if the olive garden or Amway started taking it. End result though are more transaction fees, making it more profitable and sustainable to use bitcoin.

Hell, you don't even need internet access to use it... it's been adapted to radio based networks already.

Pull your head outta your butt kids... :) Bitcoin is here to stay.

I remember when I actually cared about having a 5 digit /. id. Wow.... that was a loooong time ago.

Load More Comments
Slashdot Login

Need an Account?

Forgot your password?