Beta
×

Welcome to the Slashdot Beta site -- learn more here. Use the link in the footer or click here to return to the Classic version of Slashdot.

Thank you!

Before you choose to head back to the Classic look of the site, we'd appreciate it if you share your thoughts on the Beta; your feedback is what drives our ongoing development.

Beta is different and we value you taking the time to try it out. Please take a look at the changes we've made in Beta and  learn more about it. Thanks for reading, and for making the site better!

White House Approves Sonic Cannons For Atlantic Energy Exploration

Soulskill posted about 3 months ago | from the still-waiting-on-my-sonic-screwdriver dept.

Earth 272

An anonymous reader writes: The White House on Friday gave final approval to allow the use of sonic cannons in finding energy deposits underneath the ocean floor on the U.S. Atlantic seaboard. The Bureau of Ocean Energy Management says that finding energy resources off the Atlantic seaboard "could generate thousands of jobs, but has also acknowledged that the process will harm sea creatures." Sonic cannons "fire sound waves 100 times louder than a jet engine." Mammals such as whales and dolphins that communicate through sound will most likely be affected, but scientists aren't sure to what extent. They also aren't sure how the cannons will affect fish and other sea creatures or how any physiological effects on them may impact the fishing industries of the U.S. and the other countries who rely on seafood that migrate into and out of the Atlantic Ocean.

Sorry! There are no comments related to the filter you selected.

Lol (4, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 months ago | (#47491981)

Fuck the earth, we do what we want!

Re:Lol (1)

interkin3tic (1469267) | about 3 months ago | (#47492079)

Hey man, didn't you read "could generate thousands of jobs?" Let me say that again. COULD. MAKE. THOUSANDS. JOBS.

End of discussion. We all know the only things worse than aborting potential jobs are terrorism and taxes.

Re:Lol (5, Insightful)

davester666 (731373) | about 3 months ago | (#47492167)

in small print "for foreign workers"

Re:Lol (2, Insightful)

Noah Haders (3621429) | about 3 months ago | (#47492391)

goodness I'm tired of this white house. the sooner the better.

Re:Lol (2)

danceswithtrees (968154) | about 3 months ago | (#47492403)

Because you think the next one will be better?

Re:Lol (1)

Noah Haders (3621429) | about 3 months ago | (#47492559)

yes because I will be in the white house and it will be epic.

Re:Lol (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 months ago | (#47492431)

Yes Noah, you're a fucking moron.

Re:Lol (1)

sumdumass (711423) | about 3 months ago | (#47492295)

I think you forgot shovel ready....

Or was that implied?

Re:Lol (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 months ago | (#47492463)

COULD. MAKE. THOUSANDS. JOBS.

To a first approximation, in a depressed economy that's constrained by lack of demand, doing things more efficiently will actually cost jobs (and presumably these sonic cannons will allow them to find oil more efficiently).

I suppose that, when it comes to economics, politicians assume they can make any claims they want and no one will call them on it - and that does unfortunately seem to be the case. But it would be interesting to see whether a serious macro-economic analysis would actually show net job creation - or merely some gains in one sector offset by losses in other sectors.

Re:Lol (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 months ago | (#47492735)

Ah yes, so that's what those "could generate thousands of jobs" Obama was referring to when he said he'd be focused like a laser on creating jobs.

Re:Lol (4, Funny)

davester666 (731373) | about 3 months ago | (#47492157)

everything is safe until we absolutely, 100%, know, for sure, with absolutely no dissent from anyone, that it is not safe.

Re: Lol (3, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 months ago | (#47492193)

Everything is safe always, you mean. In a world with the GOP, the EPA could find that this causes a 10000% increase in sudden infant death syndrome and no ban will pass the House because of "rabble rabble job creators class warfare energy independence"

Re: Lol (2)

sumdumass (711423) | about 3 months ago | (#47492323)

The GOP took the white house? And here I thought there was another 2 years or so before they even got the chance to do something like that.

Hoping this is not as bad as it sounds (4, Interesting)

sideslash (1865434) | about 3 months ago | (#47491999)

Can they give "warning shots" for some time period ahead of time to clear the area? Can they definitively detect whether any large mammals are in the vicinity before giving the big blasts?

Actually, even if they can, this sounds really bad, no pun intended. :(

Re:Hoping this is not as bad as it sounds (2)

thehfctech (679054) | about 3 months ago | (#47492007)

Probably sounds pretty bad to whales and dolphins no matter what.

You're presuming any of them gives a shit (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 months ago | (#47492135)

It's a pretty safe bet that they don't. Even if it harms the fishing industry, they don't have more lobbyists than the energy companies.

Re:You're presuming any of them gives a shit (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 months ago | (#47492605)

It's a pretty safe bet that they don't. Even if it harms the fishing industry, they don't have more lobbyists than the energy companies.

Considering that various EU countries are the largest and most egregious abusers of fishing outside treaty zones, I'm pretty sure that a sonic cannon won't matter at the end of the day.

Re:Hoping this is not as bad as it sounds (4, Insightful)

Antique Geekmeister (740220) | about 3 months ago | (#47492169)

The _turf_ of bottom dwelling creatures can be quite small, especially of mollusks. Injuring them, or driving away their predators, is likely to have quite large ecological consequences. Even driving away vegetarian creatures from their feeding grounds is likely to interfere with stable ecologies.

Re:Hoping this is not as bad as it sounds (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 months ago | (#47492235)

Torpedoes and depth charges are much worse and no-one asks for permission to fire those...

Re:Hoping this is not as bad as it sounds (1)

cstacy (534252) | about 3 months ago | (#47492417)

Torpedoes and depth charges are much worse and no-one asks for permission to fire those...

Well this is a very interesting point. However, is it correct that those are worse? Are there some numbers to support this idea?

Re:Hoping this is not as bad as it sounds (1)

JMJimmy (2036122) | about 3 months ago | (#47492811)

130kg @ 300m is 286db at source, 199db at 20km. So no, your typical 200lbs depth charge will not come anywhere near this insanity.

The Republicans that rule this country... (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 months ago | (#47492011)

want animals to die. No surprise here.

Re:The Republicans that rule this country... (1)

masterofthumbs (2881445) | about 3 months ago | (#47492025)

Did you forget that Obama is a democrat?

Re:The Republicans that rule this country... (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 months ago | (#47492047)

Did you forget that Obama is a democrat?

Since he's maintained virtually every policy of the Cheney Administration, I'd say he's a DINO.

Re:The Republicans that rule this country... (1)

the_Bionic_lemming (446569) | about 3 months ago | (#47492215)

That makes all democrats that voted him in for a second term DINOs...

Re:The Republicans that rule this country... (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 months ago | (#47492299)

right, because the alternative would have been so much better... I'm sure Republican's would have objected to this if it harmed sea creatures.......

Re:The Republicans that rule this country... (2)

the_Bionic_lemming (446569) | about 3 months ago | (#47492367)

Ahhh, so Dinos are totally without blame because the other party woulda done it?

The senate, the Oval office, all controlled by Dinos - but it's Bush's fault...

Re:The Republicans that rule this country... (2)

rubycodez (864176) | about 3 months ago | (#47492227)

get that nonsense out of your head. the ones with Republicans and Democrats in their pockets rule your world. hint, the seat of power in the USA isn't Washington DC, it is New York

Re:The Republicans that rule this country... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 months ago | (#47492245)

Never miss an opportunity to turn things into partisan bickering, right?

Re:The Republicans that rule this country... (1)

The Grim Reefer (1162755) | about 3 months ago | (#47492469)

want animals to die. No surprise here.

Yes, George W. Bush [wikipedia.org] obviously hated marine animals.

Re:The Republicans that rule this country... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 months ago | (#47492539)

He only did it so his friends could destroy the coral reefs there. Their kind gets off on that sort of thing. That is why he intentionally destroyed all of the ocean life in an area larger than Greece.

Re:The Republicans that rule this country... (1)

greenwow (3635575) | about 3 months ago | (#47492639)

Which is now why most of the beaches in HI are closed, and tourism has dropped way off. His buddies immediately started drilling and spilling as soon as that scam was completed.

They already do this elsewhere (2, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 months ago | (#47492029)

I've heard a geologist speak of doing this in the Mediterranean. I would hope the experience would allow them to do more than speculate about the effects on animals.

Re: They already do this elsewhere (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 months ago | (#47492373)

To heck with sonic cannons. We want laser cannons!

Thanks Obama! (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 months ago | (#47492053)

This is just disgusting news

I want one (2, Interesting)

eyegone (644831) | about 3 months ago | (#47492061)

I don't care what they're supposed to be used for. They may be civilization's last hope of controlling my children.

Other loud noises (4, Insightful)

ishmaelflood (643277) | about 3 months ago | (#47492073)

I wonder how loud they are compared with underwater explosions, volcanoes and seaquakes?

Re: Other loud noises (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 months ago | (#47492129)

Not nearly as loud in comparison to our politicians when they speak. Both unintelligible FWIW.

Re:Other loud noises (2)

jbolden (176878) | about 3 months ago | (#47492237)

210 dB 2.0 earthquake (sound force is the equivalent of holding a stick of dynamite).
235 dB 5.0 earthquake
248 dB atom bomb
310 dB loudest volcano that we know of (happened in 1883)

Re:Other loud noises (1)

ClickOnThis (137803) | about 3 months ago | (#47492543)

These are very interesting and informative numbers, but can you cite some sources for them? A sincere question.

Other loud noises (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 months ago | (#47492257)

this is just stoopid...we've already done so much damage to this planet. we need to reduce the human population by at least half. and stop all those ignorant savages from breeding for one generation, maybe two...

          i mean why have 6,8,or 10 children? when you can only feed 2 or 3(without assistance)?

Re:Other loud noises (1)

Grow Old Timber (1071718) | about 3 months ago | (#47492329)

yeah It's like they don't know where babies come from!

Re:Other loud noises (1)

buybuydandavis (644487) | about 3 months ago | (#47492769)

What, intruding actual scale and proportion into a political argument?

Off with his head!

Great News (1)

Hevel-Varik (2700923) | about 3 months ago | (#47492097)

Mankind needs energy. The sea creatures will...adapt.

BAD,Bad, Bad! (1, Flamebait)

Jim Sadler (3430529) | about 3 months ago | (#47492103)

Providing jobs means absolutely nothing nor does the profit of business. Anything that does harm to the land or oceans should be a felony. People come and go. The land and the oceans must exist for all people in all generations. Our needs are simply not a consideration. The horror of anything in the Arctic or extreme north is even worse as when accidents occur we have no ability to restore or mitigate a disaster.

Re:BAD,Bad, Bad! (4, Insightful)

jbolden (176878) | about 3 months ago | (#47492195)

You are the reason environmentalism gets discredited. Of course our needs are a consideration. The oceans must exist for future generations to do what for them? Fulfill their needs. The first imperative of every species is survival, that is nature. We can talk about balance or relative cost, but there is no way that humans are going to agree to extinct themselves.

Re:BAD,Bad, Bad! (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 months ago | (#47492291)

no, Jim is spot on.if it conceit to think that our needs trump all other considerations... conceit is bad

the key is sustainability, our needs can only be considered if they can be fulfilled sustainably, if not then that need must be stomped on and I don't care if that directly impacts my current lifestyle or means we need to cut human population back dramatically... no gas means 1000s freeze to death, well, that's 1000s of jobs you don't have to come up with. It sounds harsh but if you can rationally step back and look at what's going to happen without a serious behavioural correction that's going to be nothing. Sanctioning such exploration is not a behavioural correction, it's doubling down on the crazy.

fossil fuels (presumably the energy source in question here) is, by definition, not sustainable. if we mess up the whales forever just to get a few more years of natgas then shame on us

this is not an environment change concern either... the time will come when we *must* make the transition, the tipping point on cost is only being thwarted by interests who can externalize costs to keep the price of fossil fuels low... whale disruption is not a line item on the balance sheet that determines the cost of that product. If an estimate can be made and priced in and the source is still viable economically then go for it... if an estimate can not be made then it is an error to assume that the value is zero (the current status quo), it should be considered infinite... now how's that balance sheet looking.

Re:BAD,Bad, Bad! (1)

jbolden (176878) | about 3 months ago | (#47492349)

Or howabout you attempt to make a realistic estimate rather than either 0 or infinity?

Re:BAD,Bad, Bad! (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 months ago | (#47492675)

Fair enough, the truth is somewhere inbetween 0 and infinity. Though a true extremist would argue that once a population gets near collapse that it's value should be treated as infinite as it can never be replaced, we are denying all future generations the opportunity to find uses for these animals... I'm not arguing that they have intrinsic value as something beautiful, I'm arguing that once the genome is gone we've lost a resource whose value we don't know.

All I'm saying is that the current estimate is 0, that's clearly wrong and favours those who wish to exploit nature to the point of rape... how about for a short while we swing the pendulum back the other way and see how things look.

How's this for a first pass, if a species has more than 10,000 animals then the fee per head is one million, below 5,000 it's 100 million, below 1,000 and it's 10 billion, below 100 is a corporate death sentence.

Those numbers are just as much out of the ether as 0 and won't cause some enconomist's spreadsheet to freak out with NaNs. The real trick then would be to resist lobbying to reduce those tariffs to the point of being a simple cost of doing business.

This isn't a million miles away from the rainforest problem... chop down all that annoying jungle so we can raise cattle... oops, the cure for cancer is gone... now how much did that beef patty *really* cost once that externality is priced in.

Oh, and in case of confusion, I consider myself, politically speaking, as a small-c conservative... in that if there is no future then what we're doing now is little more than masturbation.... as a person with two teenagers I worry about the future a lot... and I worry about the consequences of environmental collapse on the future carriers of my genes far more than I worry about the concequences of economic collapse.

Re:BAD,Bad, Bad! (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 months ago | (#47492451)

The first imperative of every species is survival

This has nothing to do with survival, unless you're referring to maintaining a life style of excess consumption at the cost of future generations, then yeah, survival.

Your argument is flawed.

"Anything that does harm to the land or oceans should be a felony" != "going extinct"

I do believe our needs are a consideration but you're taking things to the extreme.

Re:BAD,Bad, Bad! (1)

jbolden (176878) | about 3 months ago | (#47492669)

There is no reason we need to cost future generations. There are reasons we need to manage the land and water on this planet in a way advantageous to humanity to maintain our population and anything remotely approaching our standard of living.

Re:BAD,Bad, Bad! (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 months ago | (#47492333)

You, sir, suffer from what appears to be a terminal case of analcranialitis. I'd suggest you'd get someone to help you with that, but all they'd do is bend the fuck out of a perfectly good 6' rock bar in the attempt.

The White House isn't stupid.. (4, Insightful)

Rigel47 (2991727) | about 3 months ago | (#47492111)

They know that above all the oil must flow. Without the oil that came from the fracking boom oil would probably be at $150/barrel or higher. Without flowing oil the economy suffers (many past recessions were precipitated by high oil prices), the common man starts to get irritated at higher food prices, less disposable income.. for those that had disposable income to start with. The house of cards starts to sway even more.

Cheap oil is the real bread and circus that keeps the masses subdued. Some dead whales and dolphins isn't even a consideration.

Re:The White House isn't stupid.. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 months ago | (#47492341)

Actually, if that were the case, sir, the Keystone XL pipeline wouldn't have been stalled, etc. by the SOB in the White House- for reasons of the environment.

The Circus happens to be all the fools knocking themselves over to justify this apparent change in thinking...heh...

We'll attempt to extract every drop of fossil fuel (1)

eco2geek (582896) | about 3 months ago | (#47492413)

...from the earth before it's all over, as long as it has the potential of making a profit.

If the Keystone XL pipeline isn't approved by this president, just wait a few years for energy prices to get higher and fossil fuels to be more scarce. It'll eventually happen.

Re:The White House isn't stupid.. (3, Insightful)

Grow Old Timber (1071718) | about 3 months ago | (#47492393)

So You're saying oil is cheap now??? You are blind to investor trading. Who is buying oil at $120 a barrel? We don't know because it's a 'privacy thing'. Or trade secret they say How convenient.... So what if BIG oil is buying their own commodity to keep the #s up. Saudi Arabia said they would be happy with $50 to 60 a barrel and yet it is double where it realistically should be, according to commodity analysts. I have studied it. So saying it would be $150 is a lie and scare tactic. Because THAt is exactly what caused the BIG recession. $147.00 price. Remember the saying "what can we do about it???" Or weren't you alive back when we got robbed of our hi-way freedom. We are paying TWICE as much as we should be for gasoline to line some traders pocket. PERIOD. wake up. The war in Iraq was supposedly going to free up oil and we have never paid more ever since.

Re:The White House isn't stupid.. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 months ago | (#47492779)

No sir, the war in Iraq was not to free up oil, it was to bring about regime change. Saddam was perfectly happy to sell oil, things didn't go bad for him until shortly after he said that Iraq would use the Euro instead of the Greenback to conduct oil sales.

Google "saddam switches oil sales to euro" and start reading.

Overpriced oil is a rare case of greed is good... if that is the only thing putting a brake on demand then so be it.

You're more right that you know (1)

rsilvergun (571051) | about 3 months ago | (#47492571)

Our food supply is based on oil. We don't rotate crops anymore. We couldn't possibly make enough food if we did. Instead we generate nitrogen as a by-product of oil and pump it back into the soil.

If the oil stops flowing some Americans might have to tighten their belts, but people around the world that depend on our surplus food would just starve...

Re:The White House isn't stupid.. (4, Insightful)

saleenS281 (859657) | about 3 months ago | (#47492705)

Or, if they went back to banning speculation on commodities, oil would be $25/barrel. But not allowing wall street to fuck us would be anti-American and borderline COMMUNIST!

Even regular sonar wreaks havoc on marine life (4, Informative)

jenningsthecat (1525947) | about 3 months ago | (#47492123)

When sonar is used, it can create sound pressure levels of 140dB 300 miles from the source [nrdc.org] . The sound is so excruciating that whales will surface too fast and get the bends, and/or beach themselves, just to escape the sound.

Yup, let's rape our irreplaceable planet some more while torturing innocent, intelligent creatures. After all, they aren't human, and our comfort, convenience, and entertainment are so much more important than their lives.

Re:Even regular sonar wreaks havoc on marine life (1)

Sarten-X (1102295) | about 3 months ago | (#47492189)

According to a more informative article [startribune.com] , this won't be nearly as bad, then.

180 decibels. The maximum underwater noise from sonic cannons allowed within 500 meters, mitigating physical damage to marine mammals.

Re:Even regular sonar wreaks havoc on marine life (2)

jbolden (176878) | about 3 months ago | (#47492221)

The article is full of crap:

Some systems operate at more than 235 decibels, producing sound waves that can travel across tens or even hundreds of miles of ocean

BS. 235 decibels is louder than almost all volcanos. That's essentially a 31megaton explosion. The navy has tested ship based sonar of that power but only experimentally. No submarine has every carried anything remotely like that. Sonar in use on subs maxes out at around 180 dB, which is still about the equivalent of a 1lb explosion but nowhere near 235.

235dB-180dB=55dB=310,000 (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 months ago | (#47492277)

If 180 dB is 1 lb, the 235 dB is 0.155 kiloton not 31 megaton. I bet engineers could do something like that for a specific pulse of short duration.

Re:235dB-180dB=55dB=310,000 (1)

jbolden (176878) | about 3 months ago | (#47492339)

10^5.5 = 316,227
So I'm not sure where you are getting your numbers. I'm not sure what the falloff is in air pressure as you increase the size of an explosive. I'd expect a square root function (?) if someone knows they can solve that part.

Re:Even regular sonar wreaks havoc on marine life (4, Informative)

LynnwoodRooster (966895) | about 3 months ago | (#47492303)

Decibels used in SONAR are referenced to 1 microPascal; deciBels used in audio are referenced to 20 microPascals. Thus there is a 26 dB difference in level. A level of 140 dB underwater is the same as 114 dB SPL (in air). About a mid-level peak at an EDM club. Source: designing SONAR systems for scientific and fisheries research for the better part of a decade...

Re:Even regular sonar wreaks havoc on marine life (1)

Grow Old Timber (1071718) | about 3 months ago | (#47492399)

And let's not forget the INVESTORS.

whales get the bends? (1)

ishmaelflood (643277) | about 3 months ago | (#47492481)

Um, that's a bit of a puzzle, the whale breathes in air at atmospheric pressure, therefore to a first order approximation the air in its body can't be at much more than that after compression and then surfacing.

I'm not saying its impossible, but I can't see what pressure is driving the nitrogen deep into joints etc, it should all be in equilibrium.

the whole point with bends and SCUBA is that you are breathing high pressure air, and so high pressure nitrogen diffuses into the parts of the body with lower partial pressures of nitrogen, then when you surface the high pressure nitrogen wants to diffuse out again, but can't easily. If the whole lot starts in equilibrium then it all compresses together. This loosely is why duck diving into quite significant depths is safe without a decompression stage.

International Law changes needed (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 months ago | (#47492125)

These should be classified as Weapons of Mass Destruction, being as the impact to ocean life will likely be substantial, and once the damage is done, it will impact the entire ecosystem of the ocean across the planet.

This doesn't just screw the US of A...it screws us all.

Some of the jobs this would create (5, Funny)

marciot (598356) | about 3 months ago | (#47492141)

1) Fish Deafness Specialist
2) Hearing Aid Designer for Dolphins
3) Bass Boosting Headphone Maker for Bass
4) ASL Teachers for Octopi
5) Jellyfish Mending Seamstress
6) Aquatic PTSD Therapist
7) Exploding Whale Cleanup Crew

Re:Some of the jobs this would create (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 months ago | (#47492185)

Sorry, no, we don't understand cetacean hearing well enough to even think about it. See, the cetacean specialists are not allowed to gather whale or dolphin samples from living or even stranded animals, or the Greenpeace activists throw a wobbly. It's a shame, really, because they hoped to verify that beached whales are often hearing damaged by human activity, and help protect the species. But the Greenpeace whackjobs wouldn't even allow the research on live whales. And *dead* whales have generally already had their delicate inner ears ruined, making them useless for research into why they beached themselves.

Some (more) jobs this would create (1)

marciot (598356) | about 3 months ago | (#47492567)

...

8) Coral Relocation Consultants
9) Cochlear Implant Maker for Conchs
10) Ear Surgeons for Sturgeon
11) Disability Lawyers for Sharks
12) Mime School Professor for Deaf and Dumb Clownfish
13) Burst Blowfish Re-Inflation Technician
14) Electric Eel Defibrillation Nurse

I'll be hear all week, folks!

Comparisons (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 months ago | (#47492145)

A low flying jet engine is said to be 140 dB, maximum intensity of a whale is said to be 180 dB. This cannon out gives (hopefully) targeted 160 dB sounds. If they don't target and fire the cannon like idiots, all should go well.

Re:Comparisons (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 months ago | (#47492171)

No, sound waves underwater travel hundreds of miles. What idiots they are doing this.

Re:Comparisons (1)

rubycodez (864176) | about 3 months ago | (#47492253)

whales don't shriek, they are very low frequency sources

Re:Comparisons (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 months ago | (#47492495)

They're just dumb fish.

moronic (1)

ted leaf (2960563) | about 3 months ago | (#47492159)

typical greedy,fat,stupid,short-term,yankee morons,showing once again the wonderful thinking that allows the rest of the world to shit on america and americans because they deserve no better treatment. i bet i can guess very accurately exactly what the use of "sonic cannons" will be,the same as we can "guess" exactly what would have happened if a yankee moron had managed to "accidently" release live smallpox into a population. i dont know what tbe precise term would be,but the rest of us need an americademic event that wipes them off the face of the planet to a person,the rest of the world would be in such a far,far safer/better position without one live yankee on the planet. hitch hikers guide to galaxy got it wrong with the A - B -C class of ark's,D would have been needed for the yankee portion of the population. when everything is dead and gone,then the idiot yanks will possibly think that their "way" may not have been the best to live by. fingers crossed,the next f... up at somewhere like cdc atlanta is discoveted too late to save america,but gives the rest of time to lock them all in america and we can watch them die and tear each other to bits. they would not be missed,short or long term and planet earth might just keep us alive for a few more generations if the rest of work hard at correcting everything the yanks have been so keen at telling us they are doing and seem so proud of. but then if your only going to see what you wish to,everything looks briliant,no matter that you ate to die in five minutes time

So It Has Come To This (2)

mentil (1748130) | about 3 months ago | (#47492225)

This will create a Sharknado, won't it?

Jet Engine? (0)

CheezburgerBrown . (3417019) | about 3 months ago | (#47492233)

How much noise does a jet engine produce under water? How much noise do 100 Jet engines make under water?

Why not compare it to the damage caused by military Sonar?

Can I get the weight of the 'Sonic Cannon' in Calves?

so long as the duration is... (1)

Karmashock (2415832) | about 3 months ago | (#47492239)

... short. If they just blast away continuously for days that might be an issue. But if they do it for an hour or so every day that probably won't matter.

Think of it like the noisy neighbor... if they have a loud phone conversation or violent sex or blast party music for a couple hours every day... it probably won't be a literal threat to your health. It might be annoying but you're not going to get ill or die or something.

But if someone does it to you every day all day for days on end... then yeah... you might have a physiological reaction.

Re:so long as the duration is... (2)

upontheturtlesback (2605689) | about 3 months ago | (#47492377)

The 235 decibel blasts from these sonic cannons enters the water about every ten seconds, 24 hours a day, for weeks or months on end, per exploration mission [aprobertsarts.com] . 235 decibels is about a million times louder than standing next to a jet engine. It kills or injures nearby life almost immediately.

The US Navy recently increased sonar exercises [emagazine.com] without a proper assessment of the risks to marine mammals. The service and the Navy later estimated that the use of sonar during the five year plan will result in the death or injury of 650,000 marine animals [courthousenews.com] . Their own study.

This isn't something you can compare to the noise that your neighbours make, it's essentially the shockwave from a powerful bomb that travels hundreds of kilometers in every direction due to the increased conduction of the wave by the density of the fluid (water). This is one of the largest compression waves that humans can generate, and it "hemorrhages in and around the ears" and causes "organ damage and internal injuries similar to decompression sickness".

Re:so long as the duration is... (2)

upontheturtlesback (2605689) | about 3 months ago | (#47492397)

The 235 decibel blasts from these sonic cannons enters the water about every ten seconds, 24 hours a day, for weeks or months on end, per exploration mission [aprobertsarts.com] . 235 decibels is about a million times louder than standing next to a jet engine. It kills or injures nearby life almost immediately.

The US Navy recently increased sonar exercises [emagazine.com] without a proper assessment of the risks to marine mammals. The service and the Navy later estimated that the use of sonar during the five year plan will result in the death or injury of 650,000 marine animals [courthousenews.com] . Their own study.

This isn't something you can compare to the noise that your neighbours make, it's essentially the shockwave from a powerful bomb that goes off every 10 seconds for weeks or months and travels hundreds of kilometers in every direction due to the increased conduction of the wave by the density of the fluid (water). This is one of the largest compression waves that humans can generate, and it "hemorrhages in and around the ears" and causes "organ damage and internal injuries similar to decompression sickness". If you intentionally wanted to kill every living mammal in the ocean, there are few things you could do that would accomplish it quicker or more effectively.

I'm not a US citizen, but you should Contact your Congressional Representative [contacting...ngress.org] and tell them that this won't fly, immediately.

Re:so long as the duration is... (2)

Karmashock (2415832) | about 3 months ago | (#47492483)

For what its worth, I fired off an email to my congressman. Sounds like its too far gone to stop but we can hope.

Understand, I am pro oil drilling, pro nuclear power... and all sorts of other things you likely find unsavory. But this just seems wanton to me. I'm not a monster or an idiot... and this seems like madness.

If it didn't disturb marine life then I'd be fine with it. But blasting that into the water for months on end?... no.

Pathetic... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 months ago | (#47492327)

Considering that the Keystone XL was blocked for allegedly "environmental concerns" and now this....

Bullshit (4, Insightful)

l0ungeb0y (442022) | about 3 months ago | (#47492371)

Just because they don't have exact figures, doesn't mean they don't know the outcome. They've already seen the effects our underwater noise making with naval craft and underwater military technology has had. But hey, as long as they can say "we don't know exactly100% for sure" it's A-OK, because the US needs jobs. And so the self-proclaimed "most transparent", "pro middle-class", "pro environment", "anti-lobbyist" President in History® gives BP, Shell and Exxon the OK to drive aquatic mammals into killing themselves and to suffer social separation because that's EXACTLY what they already know happens when we bombard the ocean with sonic disturbances. They just don' t know HOW MUCH WORSE it will be. just that it will be worse.

Yes Minister. (1)

mdsolar (1045926) | about 3 months ago | (#47492405)

So, in Brussels there is a office to subsidize food production and another to destroy the food surplus according to Minister Hacker. Now we will have oil spills to destroy all the effort put into restoring the Chesapeake Bay. It used to be funny on TV, but in real life it just looks stupid.

Red flags: (1)

no-body (127863) | about 3 months ago | (#47492407)

- Jobs in danger
- Jobs created
- Freedom
- Security

Look who is talking and who is supporting (bribing) them.

Applies to all politicians in the US where the supreme court is smoking what? - pot, no cannot be, they would be more sensible.

Sorry Whales (1)

Scottingham (2036128) | about 3 months ago | (#47492419)

Whales:...what's that sonny?

I SAID I'M SORRY!!!!!!!


Poor bastards can't hear a damn thing ever since we started with our sonic blasters.

these guys are fucking tards (1)

strstr (539330) | about 3 months ago | (#47492443)

basically I understand they want to be able to waste money to drill for new sources of energy.

but this is at the expense of replacing oil and natural sources of energy, with free energy, sun energy, and fusion/nuclear energy.

and also if we truly need to image the undersea earth, then they should use subs that don't blast through the entire ocean instead hover near ocean floor level, and perhaps switch over to earth penetrating tomography instead using radio frequencies.

fucking stupid White House probably didn't know that we should push for other options instead. protecting ocean and fish life from further human harm.

Not Even Funny (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 months ago | (#47492445)

Well, thanks to this I just joined Greenpeace.
You cannot just do this shit to those lesser than you, animals... they are our lifeline, nothing is more important.
We waste so much... just go green and forget about this fossil sfule bullshit which won't last more than another 50 years.
That's your kids lifetime.
Go green now.

Re:Not Even Funny (0)

ishmaelflood (643277) | about 3 months ago | (#47492499)

Interesting.

Subtract all fossil fuels from your current lifestyle. And all plastic, unless you are using casein(rendered cheese).

I think you'll find that your lifestyle will be about Cuban on the level of energy intensity. That is obviously feasible, but not without sacrifice. Unlike your idol Al Gore you won't be flying ANYWHERE ever again.

Fire up the grill! (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 months ago | (#47492505)

Who needs a food chain when we have a few thousand more jobs. Maybe the extra money that gets pumped into the economy can stimulate the bugs for food idea promoted by the UN. Yum fire up the roaches on the now cheaper to run gas grill!

Neighborhood Asshole (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 months ago | (#47492549)

Humans are nature's equivalent neighborhood asshole. We have no problem blasting music at midnight and having way to many people park on the street but as soon as little Billy's ball enda up in our backyard we call for a town meeting.

Not sure ? No joke ? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 months ago | (#47492573)

"but scientists aren't sure to what extent. They also aren't sure how the cannons will affect fish and other sea creatures or how any physiological effects on them may impact the fishing industries of the U.S. and the other countries who rely on seafood that migrate into and out of the Atlantic Ocean."

NEWSPEAK IS TRUTH...
NEWSPEAK IS TRUTH...
NEWSPEAK IS TRUTH...

We all got that clear, big brother...

Lots of stuff damages marine mammals. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 months ago | (#47492603)

Here is my one-page summery.
http://sep.stanford.edu/sep/prof/whales.html
I've worked a lifetime on such stuff and was elected a member of the US Academy of engineering. Enjoy!

Bad math (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 months ago | (#47492611)

Seriously thousands of jobs is damning with faint phrase to anyone with a sense of proportion. That is like saying it is okay for me to set your house on fire because it will create twenty jobs.

I call bullshit (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 months ago | (#47492647)

Of course the consequences of what amounts to fishing with dynamite are well-known, and have been for centuries.

It will be "oh, we first need to try this out on millions of square miles before coming to a conclusion, and it would be a pity to build all that equipment and stop after the first few days just because of billions of dead fish with ruptured swimming bladders on the sea ground which more likely than not died of some as-to-yet unknown natural cause, and besides, we don't have cameras to look as far down as that would be prohibitively expensive and uncalled for. Think of all the jobs!"

This is total BS (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 months ago | (#47492681)

This is complete utter BS. The oil industry does not need to destructively find new oil reserves. Remember Deepwater Horizon? That well was being capped by BP because they didn't want it to go into full production, that might have driven the price of oil down.

Re:This is total BS (2)

someone1234 (830754) | about 3 months ago | (#47492743)

Scientists don't know what will happen to a dolphin getting in the way?
Well, either they explode, or just get their brain squashed. It could be they just become permanently deaf or just scared shitless and swim to the shore to die there.
Either case: they die, who cares which way?

Sonic Cannon = Air Gun (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 months ago | (#47492783)

Respect to the journalist who thought up the phrase "Sonic Cannon"! What a furore! In truth, the oil exploration industry has been using this technology for decades all over the world, just not in (some) parts of offshore USA. Ask a Texan about a "seismic air-gun", rather than the newly-coined "Sonic Cannon".

Load More Comments
Slashdot Login

Need an Account?

Forgot your password?