Beta
×

Welcome to the Slashdot Beta site -- learn more here. Use the link in the footer or click here to return to the Classic version of Slashdot.

Thank you!

Before you choose to head back to the Classic look of the site, we'd appreciate it if you share your thoughts on the Beta; your feedback is what drives our ongoing development.

Beta is different and we value you taking the time to try it out. Please take a look at the changes we've made in Beta and  learn more about it. Thanks for reading, and for making the site better!

Google's Mapping Contest Draws Ire From Indian Government

timothy posted about 2 months ago | from the you-can't-look-there dept.

Censorship 96

hypnosec writes with news that India's Central Bureau of Investigation has ordered a preliminary enquiry (PE) against Google for violating Indian laws by mapping sensitive areas and defence installations in the country. As per the PE, registered on the basis of a complaint made by the Surveyor General of India's office to the Union Home Ministry, Google has been accused of organizing a mapping competition dubbed 'Mapathon' in February-March 2013 without taking prior permission from Survey of India, country's official mapping agency. The mapping competition required citizens to map their neighbourhoods, especially details related to hospitals and restaurants. The Survey of India (SoI), alarmed by the event, asked the company to share its event details. While going through the details the watchdog found that there were several coordinates having details of sensitive defence installations which are out of the public domain."

cancel ×

96 comments

Sorry! There are no comments related to the filter you selected.

So, to summarize... (4, Insightful)

thieh (3654731) | about 2 months ago | (#47550019)

"You didn't get a permit from us about writing a map, so we will ask you to share the map with us."

Re:So, to summarize... (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 months ago | (#47550199)

So is a cover of the NSA to get meta-data with some nefarious purposes? Like they did with the vaccines in Pakistan to find Bin Laden's family and kill them.

Re:So, to summarize... (1)

watcher-rv4 (2712547) | about 2 months ago | (#47550577)

Vaccines in Pakistan? Do you have a link for me to read about it? Thanks.

Re:So, to summarize... (2)

parkinglot777 (2563877) | about 2 months ago | (#47550997)

Vaccines in Pakistan? Do you have a link for me to read about it? Thanks.

Simply google it... -- https://www.google.com/?gws_rd... [google.com] -- and you will see many links for your reading.

Re:So, to summarize... (1)

LifesABeach (234436) | about 2 months ago | (#47551495)

Just a thought, but I cannot help but wonder is Google is also mapping the various WiFi hot spots?

Re:So, to summarize... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 months ago | (#47550217)

Here you go. [goo.gl]

Why Indians Suck (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 months ago | (#47551265)

Why Indians Suck (the "dot" Indians that is, not the "woo woo woo" Indians)

People:

Indian people (mostly males) lack manners. They wont leave alone a couple, a foreigner, a modern dressed woman, a beautiful/pretty/okay type (any, all actually) woman. They won’t let them be in peace if they ever confront the peoples types I mentioned like a couple, women etc

If there’s a young couple walking on the road, people will look at them like they are having sex in public, and that it is prohibited (not sex, but walking in public – the couple).

If there’s a minimal moderate looking (or beyond) woman walking on the road the Indian males immediately thrust their eyes on the woman and won’t let her be in peace until she almost immediately ignores them and leaves the space. A woman who’s worn a skirt or jeans or even a modern type of t-shirt is penalized by the public of India in the form of dirty stares and chants and even an attempt to rape.

Foreigners will observe a queue behind them wherever they go, and of course, they (foreign women) will attract stares and moderately dirty stares as well.

Too much about dirty stares for now, and to sum up Indian people’s character:

1. They are cheap
2. They are all perverted (men)
3. They lack manners and common behavioral ethics
4. They (Indian males) are sex craving dogs

Politics

Largest democracy only means largest pool of stupid(insane basically) politicians here in India. Need I say more, politicians are the worst people you will ever come across in India. Worst behavior, worst dressing sense, worst physiques!, and worst work. They don’t work but crave like dogs for power: the power to stay in power yet do nothing you get it? They don’t address problems leave alone solving them. They support cricketers like crazy – that’s because there are some currency notes going in their pockets all the while. They are corrupt. They are foolish, they are idiots and they do not know how to speak English.

Clarity of thought

Sucks. People of India think they are the best, but everybody knows they are not. Obviously. Whatever these people do, they boast like hell which is completely unnecessary and uncalled for. Yet they do it why? Because, its India. They bring their culture into almost everything and everybody does agree that they have a rich culture but that doesn’t mean that they wear it around their hips intolerably like superman’s red noticeable underwear worn outside.

Indian people are a bunch of losers. Because, their attitude towards life sucks, they boast what they do not possess, act as if its their culture alone which is existing in the world at present. And they think rather weirdly they are just weird man.

Common sense

May be little. But definitely not even average. A majority of this can be owed to the lazy buggers (politicians) of India. Despite various life taking bomb incidents in India during the last year and before, there are no measures against preventing these type of incidents in the future. When there’s a blast all people come together, and say – we are the people of India, and we will NOT lose our spirit, and we will remain strong! Excuse me, how dumb is that? You guys are strong in resisting? Or did you ever think about something called “prevention” of stuff?

Basically Indian people are one of the worst kind of people in this world. Whatever I am talking about, I am talking about the majority dimension. Not all.

Obidience

Sucks again. No behavior, no ethics and no matter. Period.

So this is India – a collection of ego rich people who are jobless and do nothing, besides not letting women live peacefully in their own land. Take no cautions to prevent death in their country, and sleep the bombs being some kind of temporary alarms. Besides all these ills, they call themselves the best people out there in this world.

All should spit on these kind of people. Really. Don’t you think? I hope this post helps Indian people realize the actual facts before they usually get enraged for reading the truth about themselves, and most people.

India IS a shithole (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 months ago | (#47551291)

I’ve been studying India for a while now, and the more I study it, the angrier I get. India, quite simply, sucks. Sucks, sucks, sucks, sucks and then sucks some more. I don’t know how long this shittiness has been going on, maybe forever. When the British first showed up, they were appalled. They tried to civilize the place, but the small-c conservative Indians kept objecting to getting civilized.

What sucks? India sucks. What about it sucks?

First of all, the state.

The Indian state has sucked Devil’s balls in Hell from Day One, birthed in blood-soaked imperial and neo-colonial sin like America, Australia and Israel, with even less of an excuse, as a long-abused colony themselves. Now, via alliances with imperialist America, the UK and Israel, India seems to be aping the worst aspects of its former imperialist and colonialist master. Like a crime victim going on a killing spree. Of all the ways to react.

The shitty nature of the Indian state is of course rooted in Indian society, as all states are rooted in the cultural formations of their societies. The Indian state sucks because Indian society sucks.

Why does Indian society suck? It’s hard to sum it up. First of all, you have one of the most callous and uncaring ruling classes, with the usual upper middle class allies, found on Earth.

Missing the good old days? Go to India. Nostalgic for debt slavery and bondage, feudalism (the real deal, not the semi-feudal modern kind), slavery – child and adult, child labor, shit in the streets like the Middle Ages Europe pre-Black Plague? Go to India. It’s all there in spades.

Even more appalling is that no one in India gives a fuck. The bourgeois either live in denial or could care less if the lower classes live, die, or flop, gasping, somewhere in between.

The poor are too stupid and/or ignorant to know better, and many think that their savage and inhuman abuse, like something out of 1400s England, is actually religiously ordained by God Himself. Sure, the bourgeois sold the poor this rope to hang themselves with, or gave it to them, but they wrapped up all up in one of the most barbaric cultural-religious systems known to modern Man, Hinduism, to give it the staying power of super-glue.

The article makes clear that neoliberalism has ruined India beyond its prior Hellishness. Which is possible, since you don’t need to read Milton to learn that Hell can always get worse.

The pollution and the filth.

The pollution and filth is destroying India and turning it into an actual open cesspool/sewage ditch/garbage dump. One that traverses the whole country. It’s not only nauseous to breathe or look at the filth that surrounds you without respite, but it’s actually literally sickening. A visit to India means a continuous low-level infectious illness from all the filth drowning out your world.

Worse, Indians don’t care. See that guy shitting on the sidewalk? Pay no attention to him. OK, he’s getting up and walking away now. No problem, just don’t step it. The rich pay the trash collectors to keep their neighborhoods clean, and fuck everyone else. A callousness reminiscent of Anglo-Irish absentee landlords in 1820s Ireland.

The one good thing about neoliberalism is a decline in bureaucracy. You gut government, so there’s not much left. Bureaucracy means too many idle government slackers wasting time and dicking off. It could also mean an insanely underfunded state, which is probably the case with India.

The government doesn’t give a fuck about anything but the rich. The state exists only to suck up to the rich or in its human form to move up classwise and become part of the elite class. The state cares nothing about workers, consumers, the environment, Hell, about anything relating to the people.

Everyone who works for the state is a crook, and they are all on the take. Schools and hospitals in rural areas are empty. Doctors and teachers collect salaries and never show up for work.

Nothing works. The electric grid is down most of the time, but you pay at the end of the month anyway, even if you got little or no energy use out of the system that month. The roads are nightmarish, traffic is horrifyingly dangerous and everything is so congested it makes Los Angeles look like a breezy Sunday drive in the country. The ports don’t work either – they look like something out of 1900. Let’s see, the ports don’t work, the roads don’t work, and bureaucracy stifles everything. How is this neoliberal paradise economy supposed to function anyway?

It’s tough in this neoliberal paradise to even purchase a product. Getting a hotel room is a pain in the ass. Buying a new SIM card for your cellphone is a nightmare best avoided.

The one thing that everyone raves about in India is the trains. Nearly all Indians will insist that the trains are wonderful. Maybe 5-10 years ago, but not anymore. The traffic has maybe tripled, and almost no new cars or lines have been added, as you would expect neoliberals to do. The lines are Hellish, and customer service is probably better in Hell itself. Worse, no one cares. Even worse than that, Indians think Indian Train Hell is Paradise itself.

Malnutrition effects 51% of the population, and about the same number are permanently stunted in their mental and physical growth. This number is flat after 15 years of explosive neoliberal growth in India. Bottom line, all the Wild West dizzying growth rates haven’t filled a single starving Indian stomach. What a shit system.

The starvation and malnutrition levels are actually worse than in many parts of Sub-Saharan Africa. Kelly echoes this by saying that he’s been in 50 countries the world over, and even Ethiopia was less a shithole than India. Damn, that’s a powerful indictment. To the Africans’ credit, most Africans, despite their IQ’s, will readily admit to you that their country is a piece of shit. They don’t dig it, and they want change. Good for them.

First part of getting out of a hole is not just to stop digging, but to realize that you’re in a nasty hole in the first place, and would prefer to climb out rather than digging your way towards China and sure death.

Indians not only won’t stop digging, they think that trying to dig your way to China is some kind of a cultural-religious noble endeavor. Any Samaritans stopping by to toss them a rope or offer a hand are showered with abuse for refusing to acknowledge that the Indian’s deep dug pit is actually the greatest civilization created by man. Predictably, most sane folks throw down the rope, say fuck em, and walk on.

The Indian keeps digging as the water fills in around his muddy and beaten feat. Hunger gnaws at his belly. In response to his dim and plunging prospects, he can think of nothing to do but shout, “Glory to Bharat!” while cursing Muslims, Christians and those nasty British. With every breath, the water’s creeping higher.

You wonder why I support the Indian Maoists. Of all of the people in India, only the Maoists seem to have a bat’s chance in Hell of negotiating some kind of a future lessening of the mess above. Everyone else is cheerily on board for stasis or worsening.

*About the title, apologies to all of the actual shitholes in the world. I didn’t mean to compare you with India, sorry.

Re:Why Indians Suck (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 months ago | (#47551837)

I like Indians (I'm Brazilian btw, so it's not self-praise).

One of the best authors I've read in my life was an Indian, Rabindranath Tagore (though I just know him by the story "Kabuliwala" and a poem which was the basis for that beautiful song in the "Where the hell is Matt?" videos).

Their music is great -- look up "Vande Mataram" (the "Raagapella" a cappella version is a nice arrangement).

For all the rape stories that abound now (I hope they can solve that shameful situation ASAP), there are a lot of beautiful stories like this one (*):

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/12/04/school-under-bridge-in-ne_n_2233019.html

I'd like to see more Bollywood films, some are interesting, like this one: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taare_Zameen_Par

I once read about an Indian Politician (already deceased) whose life story was based on the "pay forward" idea.

Plus, Mother Theresa, chose there to live. I think we should at least follow her example and pay more attention to the poor in India.

Even if they stink now. Because they can be better. They'll get a lot of Nobel prizes, if we don't stand in their way.

(*) No links, use Firefox, select and drag to the tab bar.

Re:Why Indians Suck (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 months ago | (#47554385)

Just a heads up: Beta doesn't show italics correctly. Classic is ok.

Why Indians Suck (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 months ago | (#47555223)

Slashdot never disappoints. It's full of frustrated little white boys worried about losing their coding jobs and pakistani terrorists, ready to throw shit.

Stay classy, slashdot.

Re:So, to summarize... (1)

TemporalBeing (803363) | about 2 months ago | (#47551629)

"You didn't get a permit from us about writing a map, so we will ask you to share the map with us."

So it's known that Airline pilots don't learn to fly in India; they come to the US to learn to fly.
Why? Because there are too many permits required to fly any where it's just not feasible to learn in India.

Re:So, to summarize... (2, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 months ago | (#47553401)

It's because there are too few planes in India and too few candidates to make the economics of flying schools work in India. The entire aviation sector in the country is probably less than what JFK handles.

So, you see, it isn't really about permits. Its about economics of scale. Also, there is a huge sunk cost in airplanes like Cessna in the US which enables a pilot to get all the hours necessary for commercial certification.I was looking into all of this some years ago for when the aviation sector opened up in India. The cost of training outside of India was cheaper than the cost of flying in India due to the sunk cost or per hour lease rates of Cessna in India vs US.

So, it's cheaper to rent a Cessna (more of them available outside of India) as opposed to the other option. Hope this helps clarify issues. Yes there is red tape around acquiring used aircraft and such for training. Why? Just like FAA, the Indian equivalent also has equally good rules on aircraft safety and what needs to be replaced when. So even if you acquire an used Cessna and move it to India, it will end up costing more.

In effect, it's cheaper to learn where there is plenty of excess capacity already paid for by the middle class America of the 1970's. Now, I don't know how many in middle-class america can afford to fly now.

It's twenty fucking fourteen people (0, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 months ago | (#47550023)

There are no national secrets anymore. This is fucking retarded. Anybody with a satellite can see anything they don't want you to see, AND MORE. India is more of a third world shit hole every day, which is saying something.

How much more? (1)

thieh (3654731) | about 2 months ago | (#47550135)

It's not like US with the satellite have seen WMD's in Iraq, or are they seeing WMD's which never exist?

Re:How much more? (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 months ago | (#47550209)

They didn't see the WMDs themselves, they saw shitty trailers that the neocons labeled as WMD manufacturing plants and everyone believed them because why would our own intelligence agencies lie to our own government?

Re:How much more? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 months ago | (#47550257)

sigh, this tired story again? look, half the world believed there to be WMDs, our intel was wrong, it happens

Re:How much more? (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 months ago | (#47550341)

Sigh, this tired excuse again? Half the world believed it because WE told them to believe it. Our intel was wrong because Dick Cheney TOLD the intelligence community what he wanted the intel to be. It happened.

Re:How much more? (2)

Anne Thwacks (531696) | about 2 months ago | (#47550611)

Actually, hardly anyone believed it. They knew the politicians were lying, but could do nothing about it.

Re:How much more? (0, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 months ago | (#47550463)

No, most of the world didn't but the WMDs line. The UN Security Council disagreed. The UN inspectors disagreed. Various intelligence agencies of our allies told us the WMD stuff was nonsense and we were being fed lies. Even our own agencies said some of the intelligence was shaky at best before Powell's presentation about the mobile port-a-lets and aluminum tubes. The "Coalition of the Willing" was an absolute joke (probably because we still forget Poland).

Also, you Ameritards have still yet to apologize to France about being right about the Iraq clusterfuck. But you sure showed them by adding trillions to our debt and eating "freedom fries", right?

Re:How much more? (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 months ago | (#47550759)

> our intel was wrong,

I don't understand that lie when we found plenty of ricin, sarin and mustard gas. Quite a few Americans, including my nephew, were hurt or died from the WMDs in Iraq. You are insulting them and their families by claiming that lie.

Re:How much more? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 months ago | (#47551277)

Iraq didn't have WMDs when Bush invaded.

Re:How much more? (1)

SoftwareArtist (1472499) | about 2 months ago | (#47553521)

No, we didn't.

Prior to the first gulf war (the one in the early 90s), Iraq had a chemical weapons program. After the war, that was shut down and most of their stocks destroyed. When the inspectors came through after the second gulf war (the one in the early 2000s), they came across old shells on which they found residue of chemical weapons, indicating that a decade earlier they had once contained chemical weapons. They found no evidence that Iraq had actually restarted its chemical weapons program, or had any significant stock of chemical weapons.

If you claim they found anything more than that, please provide a citation.

Re:How much more? (1)

Robb Swanson (1136519) | about 2 months ago | (#47558967)

sigh, this tired story again? look, half the world believed there to be WMDs, our intel was wrong, it happens

Yeah... It happens. And as a result, a country is torn to tatters, there are over 100,000 civilian deaths, over 15,000 Iraqi military deaths, close to 5000 coalition military deaths, and now we have an insurgency that is bringing some of the most frightening radical Islamists to power in a large swath of the country. All of this is a result of the fact that "our intel was wrong", and you want to just shrug it off as mistake?!? *spits*

Re:How much more? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 months ago | (#47554335)

> ...why would our own intelligence agencies lie to our own government?

Is this a rethorical question?

Re:It's twenty fucking fourteen people (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 months ago | (#47550313)

Why don't you tell that to Google which is blocking sensitive areas in USA happily. It cries foul when non-US govt tells it to not show details of their sensitive areas. Are you trying to say that there are no sensitive areas outside USA OR is Google oxymoron which never protests US requests to hide sensitive areas?

Re:It's twenty fucking fourteen people (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 months ago | (#47550425)

Reading fail. Google isn't "crying foul", the story is about how the Indian government is. IOW, everything you said is completely specious.

oopsie... (5, Insightful)

MickyTheIdiot (1032226) | about 2 months ago | (#47550035)

Someone didn't get his bribe!

Re:oopsie... (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 months ago | (#47556131)

Score:5, Ignorant.
Not everyone in the Indian government asks for a bribe. There are lots of honest folks too. How much do you really know about the country??

Get some priorities (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 months ago | (#47550041)

Doesn't the Indian government have better things to do? Oh like feeding their hundred of millions of impoverished citizens or even building toilets so they don't shit outside everywhere. Or even solve the massive corruption they have.

No wonder India is such a shithole of a country.

Re:Get some priorities (2)

someone1234 (830754) | about 2 months ago | (#47550417)

You mean, other than letting a foreign company doing spy work in their country? LOL :)

Re:Get some priorities (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 months ago | (#47552843)

Doesn't the Indian government have better things to do? Oh like feeding their hundred of millions of impoverished citizens or even building toilets so they don't shit outside everywhere. Or even solve the massive corruption they have.

No wonder India is such a shithole of a country.

In India, if you want to do anything you have to ask an official for permission first. This is why nothing gets done; the official is thinking like a parasitic pimp more concerned about how to get a cut of someone else's efforts. A hundred years ago, everything everywhere was a nation of outhouses. 70 years ago, nobody had any wealth or money, including countries like the U.S.

Those countries are where they're at today while India is still unable to replace their free-for-all sewage system. Why is that?

It's the stagnation of innovation due to the gridlock created by the petty bureaucrat from central command. Innovation comes from within the individual; inspiring their families and neighbors to work together within their community. Once the ruling class realizes this and acts on it, their country may actually be a place where the working people can live and work in dignity.

1. Separate your local communities from the State.
2. Incorporate your local communities as a not-for-profit business--the board of directors (mayor, etc.) being elected by the people living within the incorporation.
3. ????
4. Profit: That is, it's a system that seems to work moderately well within the American States. People are pretty much the same everywhere; those in disagreement and saying this won't work due to culture, etc., are most likely the ones wanting to maintain their position of power and authority. (This can apply to any failing state, including Russia as an example.)

5. Bonus step: Federally separate your states; have the federal government be concerned only about issues between the states--perhaps also being concerned about social programs affecting all the states. (Please don't use the U.S. as an example; things aren't going well with that over here.)

Remember: Effective government is not about a solution where one-size-fits-all; it's more about sharing and separating responsibilities between local and central governments with written laws (not decreeing verbal declarations) that in turn empowers the individual and the community--in a sense, a client-server model (heh) so to speak.

Better be careful Google! (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 months ago | (#47550053)

Piss off India and your labor supply will come to an end!

Re:Better be careful Google! (1)

houstonbofh (602064) | about 2 months ago | (#47550451)

Piss off India and your labor supply will come to an end!

How do I mod funny, insightful and informative? That was awesome! :)

Re:Better be careful Google! (1)

mjwalshe (1680392) | about 2 months ago | (#47550993)

I suspect doing anything to cut the remittances of Asian programmers working in the USA - or the offshore industry might back fire on the Indian government I suspect the big Indian IT firms would be having a "word" with the PM

Re:Better be careful Google! (2)

pla (258480) | about 2 months ago | (#47550881)

Piss off India and your labor supply will come to an end!

You promise?

So how do I go about starting my own Indian mapping competition?


/ H1Bs GTFO.
// Not your fault, but harder to deport Steve Balmer or The Zuck.

Re:Better be careful Google! (1)

Rich0 (548339) | about 2 months ago | (#47552013)

Piss off India and your labor supply will come to an end!

Get with the times. My employer just hired Cognizant for a project. The managers are Indians, but the development has all been outsourced to Shanghai. Must be too expensive to hire Indians...

Re:Better be careful Google! (2)

Krishnoid (984597) | about 2 months ago | (#47553021)

Must be too expensive to hire Indians...

... so they cut costs by Shanghai'ing them.

I'll show myself out.

Ignorance is no excuse ... (2)

CaptainDork (3678879) | about 2 months ago | (#47550061)

"The company[Google], noting that it was not aware of any privacy issues, ..."

Re:Ignorance is no excuse ... (4, Interesting)

Entrope (68843) | about 2 months ago | (#47550171)

The government body trying to protect its turf from competition did not cite any privacy issues, either. It cited security issues, which of course it could not describe in detail because security.

Did Google specifically solicit information about defense installations, perhaps as a particular example of hospitals or restaurants? If not, did Google have any way to know which information about which installations is considered secret? (Obviously, the government would never publish such a list for general consumption, because that would both reveal the data that they want to protect and distinguish the sensitive data from information that they consider non-sensitive.) Did Google republish this data, or is the perceived offense merely that Google has the data?

Re:Ignorance is no excuse ... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 months ago | (#47550339)

USA routinely tells google to hide sensitive areas and google complies voluntarily by reading the laws of USA. It needs to do the same in other countries, otherwise respective govts have right to take actions against it. Google will remove pro-nazi videos in usa and france but will not comply with request from muslim nation to remove offensive material. It will hide sensitive US installation but will not hide sensitive locations in India despite there being clear law in this regard.

Re:Ignorance is no excuse ... (1)

Entrope (68843) | about 2 months ago | (#47550407)

You did not answer any of my questions. Did you just want to highlight that India seems to be whining about Google instead of trying to work with them?

Re:Ignorance is no excuse ... (1)

dunkindave (1801608) | about 2 months ago | (#47550521)

The trouble is, as the Entrope mentioned, unless they tell you specifically what information is not to be published, then how are you to know? Making it illegal to publish data about "sensitive areas" means somehow they have to make it clear what areas are sensitive, or else they are creating unrealistic expectations. Imagine a law that said it is illegal to proceed through a green traffic light when an unmarked police car is approaching from a perpendicular direction. How can you obey such a law since ANY car could be an unmarked police car. Same with making a blanket law that is equivalent to saying you may not publish anything the government deems sensitive unless they give you a way to know what information that is.

And in the summary, I don't think the phrase "The mapping competition required citizens to map their neighbourhoods" is phrased very well, since Google doesn't have the legal authority to require people to do anything. Do they stop you from using the Google search page unless you first submit a neighborhood detail?

Re:Ignorance is no excuse ... (1)

Entrope (68843) | about 2 months ago | (#47550669)

Does India have anything like the US Constitution's requirement for due process of law before someone is punished? It is conceivable for the government to ban the collection or publication of national security information, with the burden on the collector/publisher to figure out whether they have done so. This would be a recipe for arbitrary enforcement and unjust outcomes, but similar schemes have been implemented in the past -- between restaurant reviews and search engines, recent European cases provide examples for comparison and contrast of laws that are only really decidable with hindsight or by judicial dictate.

Re:Ignorance is no excuse ... (1)

TheSync (5291) | about 2 months ago | (#47552205)

Indian Constitution Article 21: "Protection of life and personal liberty. No person shall be deprived of his life or personal liberty except according to procedure established by law."

Note that the phrase "due process" is not in the Indian Constitution. For more information on why it was replaced with "according to procedure", see this reference [thehindu.com] .

Re:Ignorance is no excuse ... (1)

DutchUncle (826473) | about 2 months ago | (#47552883)

... a blanket law that is equivalent to saying you may not publish anything the government deems sensitive unless they give you a way to know what information that is

I take it that you've never dealt with people in real government security agencies. The very existence of such a law would be deemed sensitive.

Re:Ignorance is no excuse ... (-1, Troll)

Dishevel (1105119) | about 2 months ago | (#47550547)

I thought everything other than cutting off the heads of children was offensive to Muslims.

If you become offended by too much I will take great joy in offending you even more.

Re:Ignorance is no excuse ... (3, Informative)

pla (258480) | about 2 months ago | (#47550929)

USA routinely tells google to hide sensitive areas and google complies voluntarily

...With the inherent irony that you can then use that hidden data specifically to find "sensitive" areas you might not have known about (just randomly load highest-zoom tiles until you find one with artificially degraded resolution) - Then pull up the same data at 1m resolution from the USGS quarter quad library.

You want something hidden from space? Build it deep enough underground to hide its IR footprint. Attempting to hide things through censorship works sooo well - Just ask Babs S.

Re:Ignorance is no excuse ... (1)

gstoddart (321705) | about 2 months ago | (#47551405)

With the inherent irony that you can then use that hidden data specifically to find "sensitive" areas you might not have known about

People have been using the internet to find out more about 'sensitive areas' for a long time now. ;-)

Re:Ignorance is no excuse ... (1)

houstonbofh (602064) | about 2 months ago | (#47550477)

I think it is upset that it will now have to give a list of private security installations to a foreign owned company that it does not (and should not) fully trust.

Re:Ignorance is no excuse ... (1)

DerekLyons (302214) | about 2 months ago | (#47552059)

The company[Google] is never aware of any issues. It's their standard smokescreen/disclaimer.

Re:Ignorance is no excuse ... (1)

interkin3tic (1469267) | about 2 months ago | (#47552347)

Ignorance is no excuse from legal repercussions is the meaning of that phrase. Google made that statement to a reporter asking for comment, not in a courtroom. In reality (as opposed to the legal system) yes, ignorance of a law definitely is a good excuse. Look at patent trolls, those are clear cases where ignorance of the laws are unfortunately not a legal defense but are definitely a moral excuse.

god damn it! (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 months ago | (#47550065)

FUCKING fire timothy!

India (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 months ago | (#47550069)

Make india a grea area on google maps

If the average citizen knows your defence details (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 months ago | (#47550085)

You can't really censor that from the internet, now can you?

Re:If the average citizen knows your defence detai (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 months ago | (#47550127)

Exactly. If it was crowdsourced, then by definition, it is in the public domain. It's public domain information they want to cover up. Not 'information not in the public domain'.

Re:If the average citizen knows your defence detai (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 months ago | (#47550373)

If US govt can censor sensitive areas in USA, why can't Indian govt do?

Re:If the average citizen knows your defence detai (1)

penix1 (722987) | about 2 months ago | (#47550937)

They can... And I think they should... Put a big red polygon there with the label "Indian Government Declared Sensitive Area" right on top.

Re:If the average citizen knows your defence detai (1)

0123456 (636235) | about 2 months ago | (#47552269)

When I lived in the UK, there was a big blank space on the official maps just outside town. Anyone who lived near there knew it was the local nuclear weapons dump, and any Soviet spy who drove past would see the buildings that mysteriously didn't appear on the map, and know it must be something important enough to hide, and therefore important enough to bomb in wartime.

The whole thing was just stupid.

Da Fence (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 months ago | (#47550093)

I get mad when people map out my fences too.

They mapped out "De-fences".

Out of the public domain? (4, Insightful)

wonkey_monkey (2592601) | about 2 months ago | (#47550099)

out of the public domain

If you can see it from public property and tell what it is, it's (effectively) in the public domain, isn't it?

If it's supposed to be secret, and someone who shouldn't know where it is does, you've got a security leak.

I'd say Google's doing them a favour. If any of their secret installations turn up on it, you know it's time to shut them down or move them.

Re:Out of the public domain? (4, Informative)

gstoddart (321705) | about 2 months ago | (#47550179)

Except, I'm pretty sure there are plenty of places which are also censored [list25.com] or blurred from Google maps and the like.

India is hardly the first country to do this, and there's a few US installations which are blurred out.

Governments censor data, film at 11.

Re:Out of the public domain? (1)

Entrope (68843) | about 2 months ago | (#47550395)

North Korea makes it extremely hard to get map information! Face recognition algorithms sometimes go awry! A power plant is shown with similar resolution to neighboring buildings! News at 11!

At least 15 of the 25 places on the list you link to are closed to the general public, several others might be (not clear from quick Google searches), and several appear to have high-quality satellite imagery now. It is not surprising that Google blurs out places that governments intentionally make it hard to see. This is perhaps even a good idea by default for military installations and high-level government buildings, with exceptions to be made for plausible allegations of malfeasance or abuse of authority.

Re:Out of the public domain? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 months ago | (#47550441)

This is more than a censoring issue. Survey of India didn't ask (or remind) Google to blur some areas, they got "alarmed" by a Mapathon, so the real issue is they didn't want a U.S. company to know sensitive details in the first place.

Re:Out of the public domain? (1)

LienRag (1787684) | about 2 months ago | (#47561555)

How does it works for OpenStreetMap?
As an open-source project, it has no nationality...

Re:Out of the public domain? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 months ago | (#47550237)

If you can see it from public property and tell what it is, it's (effectively) in the public domain, isn't it?

In North America: sure. Throughout most of the world: nope. Just because you know what something is doesn't give you "a right" to tell people about it. (as much as I disagree with the aforementioned statement, it's generally true)

Different country. Different rules. (4, Informative)

sjbe (173966) | about 2 months ago | (#47550447)

If you can see it from public property and tell what it is, it's (effectively) in the public domain, isn't it?

Not necessarily. This isn't the United States. Different laws and customs applied differently. Your normal expectations regarding the law may not apply.

I'd say Google's doing them a favour. If any of their secret installations turn up on it, you know it's time to shut them down or move them.

Yeah... I'm sure that's exactly how they will see it too... [/sarcasm]

Re:Out of the public domain? (1)

rgmoore (133276) | about 2 months ago | (#47550541)

If you can see it from public property and tell what it is, it's (effectively) in the public domain, isn't it?

It may be practically difficult to prevent that information from getting out to people who want it, but that doesn't make it legal to do so. Plenty of governments continue to try keeping stuff secret even when there's no real hope of doing so.

Re:Out of the public domain? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 months ago | (#47550569)

If you can see it from public property and tell what it is, it's (effectively) in the public domain, isn't it?

If it's supposed to be secret, and someone who shouldn't know where it is does, you've got a security leak.

I'd say Google's doing them a favour. If any of their secret installations turn up on it, you know it's time to shut them down or move them.

How very American of you. If you tried that line of BS in India, you'd be rotting in a cell for 25 years.

Re:Out of the public domain? (1)

Hartree (191324) | about 2 months ago | (#47550895)

"you'd be rotting in a cell for 25 years."

Mostly because the legal system is so slow it'd take that long to even get to trial.

As an Indian I know joked: "The British gave us stifling bureaucracy, but we PERFECTED it!"

Re:Out of the public domain? (1)

mjwalshe (1680392) | about 2 months ago | (#47551017)

I thought it was funny that when they remade Yes minister in India they just changed all the references to the EU/France to Pakistan and shot them as is

Re:Out of the public domain? (1)

wonkey_monkey (2592601) | about 2 months ago | (#47551311)

How very American of you.

How very presumptive of you.

Re:Out of the public domain? (1)

Maxwell (13985) | about 2 months ago | (#47551689)

If one can ride by on their bicycle and take a picture of "secret installations", they have a security leak. It's not an American concept.

Google doesn't need a permit. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 months ago | (#47550207)

They started a contest with all the usual disclaimers, etc...

The people entering the contest are the ones that need to validate that what they are submitting is legal or not.

This is a non story, unless you count inept Indian government officials... Though that's not really news either.

Re:Google doesn't need a permit. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 months ago | (#47550359)

Seriously? Try doing a contest to get CIA agents names with all the usual disclaimers. You can't do illegal things simply by putting disclaimers.

Re:Google doesn't need a permit. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 months ago | (#47551123)

You don't seem to be paying attention, Google specifically asked them to focus on hospitals and restaurants. If those were national security interests you might have a point, but no one in their right mind would consider them such. Some people MAY have also included local military facilities that SoI considered sensitive, even if that is so I doubt 0.01% of the submissions were sensitive.

How long does it take (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 months ago | (#47550279)

when a OSM vs google maps flamewar starts?

Re:How long does it take (1)

mars-nl (2777323) | about 2 months ago | (#47553775)

Not starting a flamewar. Both Google Maps and OSM have their place. But if I was an Indian, I would donate my time to OpenStreetMap [openstreetmap.org] so that everyone can profit from the data instead of just one American company.

Just a money grap attempt by a corrupt government (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 months ago | (#47550365)

Title says it all.

Great highlighter for the secret stuff (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 months ago | (#47550517)

So now anything that Google greys out will be highlighted as an interesting area to investigate.

Illegal numbers (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 months ago | (#47550847)

Illegal numbers [wikipedia.org] strike again!

Bureaucracy vs. progress (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 months ago | (#47550867)

It is precisely this sort of bureaucracy, where people protect their jobs above all else, that prevents India from being a competitive, global economic power.

India must be a really nice place (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 months ago | (#47550869)

Obviously, when the biggest problem is someone is writing up maps without permission, any other problems like crime, slavery, and women being raped and killed must not exist.

Google gonna google (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 months ago | (#47550941)

Haters gonna hate

Seriously, India... (2, Insightful)

scuzzlebutt (517123) | about 2 months ago | (#47550995)

Have you never heard of the Streisand Effect?

Bad Analogy Time Again. (1)

westlake (615356) | about 2 months ago | (#47552401)

Have you never heard of the Streisand Effect?

The Streisand Effect works only if you know and care about Barbara Streisand --- and only in a time and place where Geek Rules override every other consideration.

The geek has a one-size-fits-all cultural mindset that has never served him particularly well.

timothy can't spell (0)

thygate (1590197) | about 2 months ago | (#47551525)

seriously, "defence", doesn't every freakin' browser have a spell checker built in nowadays ?!

Re:timothy can't spell (1)

scuzzlebutt (517123) | about 2 months ago | (#47551545)

"Defence" is a British spelling of "defense". Perfectly acceptable.

Re:timothy can't spell (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 months ago | (#47551613)

Defence is the Indian (and British) English spelling of the word that the inhabitants of the USA spell as defense. The Canadians spell it as defence also.

Giant tarp (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 months ago | (#47552021)

India just needs to construct a giant tarp over their country to protect it from spies (the side benefit is now they can sell access to sunlight to the populace).

India has disputed borders too. (1)

140Mandak262Jamuna (970587) | about 2 months ago | (#47552615)

I have seen numerous Govt offices in India with a rusted metal sign saying, "Photography prohibited". But cut them some slack too, routinely attacked by terrorists looking for soft targets.

Also the border is disputed with Pakistan and China. Since Pakistan has been the "ally" of USA since 1950s, and India kept dallying with USSR all those days, almost all the American magazines will carry maps that show disputed parts of Kashmir as part of Pakistan. I have seen so many Reader's Digest, Time, National Geographic, Life mags with maps of Kashmir region stamped with, "This map does not agree with the official map published by the Surveyor General of India. No significance may be attached to the differences published here. " (quoting from memory, actual wording could be even more bureaucratese ).

but... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 months ago | (#47552679)

well if they are so sensitive, maybe the citizenry shouldn't know about them.

Ametikan Bitch (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 months ago | (#47554957)

Allah owns your ass! Our generation will witness the miracle of every American and every American child in every American classroom kneel before the Men of Muhammad! If you're uncovered whores refuse our commands, they will be put to death like dogs!

Youre doing it wrong. (1)

Mexoplex (2736265) | about 2 months ago | (#47558631)

If everyone knows it's a secret it's not a secret. Don't blame Google because they've exposed your silliness.

Foreigners vs Locals (1)

mgcarley (735176) | about 2 months ago | (#47583175)

It could also have something to do with the fact that normally foreigners are not allowed in cantonments and other restricted areas and so the use of locals opens both sides up to problems.

My visa specifically mentions which cities I can live in (so I must register with the FRRO in either of those cities; as far as I know, I don't think I can just up and move from say Delhi or Mumbai to somewhere else without getting some additional permitting or a replacement visa first) but it also says "not valid for prohibited / restricted and cantonment areas" meaning I can't even visit those places without getting permission first (which could be a pain in the ass if someone were to actually check my documents as I move around, because sometimes the only way to get from A to B is through such an area).

So apart from the replies concerning bribery (probably a factor), the government may simply be annoyed that Google is recruiting Indians to do stuff for a foreign entity which involves "areas of interest", which is fair enough I suppose - if said foreign entity were a government, wouldn't that basically amount to spying?

Check for New Comments
Slashdot Login

Need an Account?

Forgot your password?