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Hackers Plundered Israeli Defense Firms That Built 'Iron Dome' Missile Defense

Soulskill posted about 4 months ago | from the intercepting-missiles-is-easier-than-learning-not-to-click-on-attachments dept.

The Military 184

An anonymous reader writes: Brian Krebs reports on information from Columbia, Md.-based threat intelligence firm Cyber Engineering Services Inc. that attackers thought to be operating out of China hacked into the corporate networks of three top Israeli defense technology companies. The attackers were seeking technical documents related to Iron Dome, Israel's air defense system. "IAI was initially breached on April 16, 2012 by a series of specially crafted email phishing attacks. ... Once inside the IAI’s network, [the attackers] spent the next four months in 2012 using their access to install various tools and trojan horse programs on systems throughout company’s network and expanding their access to sensitive files, CyberESI said. The actors compromised privileged credentials, dumped password hashes, and gathered system, file, and network information for several systems. The actors also successfully used tools to dump Active Directory data from domain controllers on at least two different domains on the IAI’s network. All told, CyberESI was able to identify and acquire more than 700 files — totaling 762 MB total size — that were exfiltrated from IAI’s network during the compromise. The security firm said most of the data acquired was intellectual property and likely represented only a small portion of the entire data loss by IAI." Most of the stolen material pertained to Arrow III missiles, UAVs, and ballistic rockets.

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Tag, you're it! (1, Offtopic)

Tablizer (95088) | about 4 months ago | (#47563357)

Does that mean Hamas will start rocketing China also?

Re:Tag, you're it! (5, Insightful)

Opportunist (166417) | about 4 months ago | (#47563667)

Why, did China start to settle on their land, too?

Re:Tag, you're it! (2, Insightful)

mjwalshe (1680392) | about 4 months ago | (#47564031)

given that china also has problems with Muslim minorities is not that far fetched.

Re:Tag, you're it! (0, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#47564119)

Oh, then they should also put those minorities in a concentration camp called Gaza.

Re:Tag, you're it! (3, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#47564123)

nice trolling, its a prison, not a concentration camp!

Re:Tag, you're it! (2)

Mashiki (184564) | about 4 months ago | (#47564247)

Why, did China start to settle on their land, too?

If you're asking about the Philippines, Japan and S.Korea they'd all answer with yes.

Re:Tag, you're it! (3, Insightful)

gtall (79522) | about 4 months ago | (#47564317)

No, just Tibet.

Re:Tag, you're it! (0, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#47563883)

Well, perhaps by accident. These things are not exactly accurate, you see.

Meanwhile Israel continues to strike UN schools (aka refugee centers), water and electricity infrastructure.

And the US unanimously passes a bill in complete and unquestioning support of Israel, in which they for some reason demand that Hamas discontinue their recently improved relations with the PA.

It seems the REAL reasons for this relentless bombing of civilians in one of the most densely populated areas of the planet, and now basically an invasion, are becoming clear.

Re: Tag, you're it! (4, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#47564001)

There is another side to this that isn't being reported. Hamas are using schools hospitals etc to fire rockets from and telling the public it is their duty to stay and act as human shields. Israel warn I attacks and say to evacuate but Hamas make them stay, to create propaganda which makes you angry and want to support them. Don't be so easily brainwashed.

There is an EU report on this which I now can't find but these facts exist outside of pro Israel web sites

Re: Tag, you're it! (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#47564009)

That's what Israel tells the world after they bomb schools ....

Don't let israel brainwash you!

Re: Tag, you're it! (5, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#47564139)

That's what Israel tells the world after they bomb schools ....

Don't let israel brainwash you!

That's what Israel tells the world after they bomb schools ....

Don't let israel brainwash you!

Hello, Mr. Hamas Troll,

The other day when BBC was interviewing a doctor who was inside a hospital in Gaza, in the middle of the interview two Hamas rockets were fired from the 3rd floor of the same hospital

The sounds of the rocket firing was heard clearly, and the doctor himself admitted in that live broadcast that two rockets were fired from the hospital

That broadcast was not sponsored in any way by Israel. It was a BBC broadcast !

Re: Tag, you're it! (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#47564225)

Do you have a credible reference for that? Because the closest thing to what you describe that I could find from a google search on "bbc rockets fired from hospital" is

this [bbc.co.uk]

Israel says rockets have been fired from Basman al-Ashi's hospital, a charge his staff deny completely.

He said / she said, and therefore meaningless. Certainly no doctor admitting that anything was fired from within a hospital. Much less on screen.

So... link?

Re: Tag, you're it! (2)

jrumney (197329) | about 4 months ago | (#47564299)

I saw the segment the GP was talking about. I don't remember it being the third floor, but the doctor certainly admitted it was on the hospital grounds.

It still doesn't excuse Israel ignoring the targeting said hospital though. At the end of the day, the damage Hamas is doing with those rockets is minimal, and doesn't warrant ignoring the Geneva convention to deliberately target hospitals and schools where they know the civilian casualties will be disproportionate. Yes, Hamas is deliberately using human shields to sway global opinion, but Israel is deliberately giving them exactly what they want.

Re: Tag, you're it! (4, Informative)

Mashiki (184564) | about 4 months ago | (#47564553)

It still doesn't excuse Israel ignoring the targeting said hospital though.

When a group fires from the grounds of a hospital, religious building, or homes, under the geneva convention those buildings automatically become military targets. There is no ignoring the geneva convention, what you've just posted is that hamas is committing war crimes in order to try and sway opinion.

Re: Tag, you're it! (-1, Troll)

jbssm (961115) | about 4 months ago | (#47564133)

Last I hear, Israel is using people in their all territory (and Palestinian territory forcibly settled by Israelis) as a human shield.

In fact, I hear every time Hamas fires a rocket into Israeli (and Palestinian territory forcibly settled by Israelis), they are trying to hit a high ranking official of the Israeli government or army, but they miss 99.999% of the time.

Re: Tag, you're it! (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#47564393)

Last I hear, Israel is using people in their all territory (and Palestinian territory forcibly settled by Israelis) as a human shield.

In fact, I hear every time Hamas fires a rocket into Israeli (and Palestinian territory forcibly settled by Israelis), they are trying to hit a high ranking official of the Israeli government or army, but they miss 99.999% of the time.

You are of course aware that use of weapons that miss that often is a de facto war crime by failing to make an "effective contribution to military action". [icrc.org]

Nice to know you admit Hamas is fighting in a criminal manner.

I had been afraid to wonder... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#47563371)

Reading everything that has been going on, and the details in the news articles about this system, I have almost been afraid to wonder if/when something like this would happen. I had no idea the whole thing works on WiFi until I read a CNN article. Very scary stuff if folks can find a way to compromise the system.

Re:I had been afraid to wonder... (1)

aliquis (678370) | about 4 months ago | (#47563983)

In North Korea Kim Jong-Un hacks all the worldÂs military networks in two seconds.

5% efficacy, steal away (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#47563383)

It's better as a US grant acquiring system than a rocket system.

Re:5% efficacy, steal away (2)

salimma (115327) | about 4 months ago | (#47563391)

The reality is probably somewhere in between, so if this is indeed the work of government-sponsored hackers, expect an improved Chinese clone the same way the J-31 looks to be a better performing clone of the F-35.

Re:5% efficacy, steal away (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#47563405)

Key words being "looks to be." We might gripe about five million dollar state of the art laser cupholders, but aerospace companies do not skimp on engineering and materials. Plus, you know, there's the whole China not being able to build 100% indigenous aircraft thing.

Re:5% efficacy, steal away (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#47563417)

While I am sure there's a great deal of espionage going on the F35, I also believe that aerodynamics and "stealthiness" tend to converge into a design similar to the F35.

Re:5% efficacy, steal away (1)

aliquis (678370) | about 4 months ago | (#47563787)

But.. But..

The true racists - you know the ones who don't just want to have their country left alone and finance others - would tell you the Chinese simply can't make anything useful! Ever!

(As they likely did with the Japanese and so on, heck,in the UK people likely still consider their military superior! (OH NO I I DIDN'T?!))

Re:5% efficacy, steal away (1)

umghhh (965931) | about 4 months ago | (#47564439)

it may just be that the only purpose F35 serves is to cause other gullible nations into arms race trying to build stuff that has no practical value but is expensive like hell. Sort of the way Reagan's star wars were for Russkis.

So why dont... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#47563419)

Why dont these places have malware files spread out in their data files, hide them in a zip file or something.
So when hackers hack YOUR systems, you get to hack theirs back.

After all if this started with an email, surely having malware files on their machines must make it easier to hack them..... carefully crafted PDF, JPEG, etc etc etc

Because hacking doesn't work that way (3, Informative)

penguinoid (724646) | about 4 months ago | (#47563509)

Why dont these places have malware files spread out in their data files, hide them in a zip file or something.

All malware is data until you tell your computer to run it. If you get hacked by careless people, then I suppose having malware that reports them might work, but they'd have to run it or open it with a compromised program, and on a computer connected to the internet.

Re:Because hacking doesn't work that way (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#47563651)

No, no, no, don't bring facts into the discussion. Hollywood Hacking is a real thing because we want to make-believe.

Re:Because hacking doesn't work that way (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#47563867)

https://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2010/03/pdf_the_most_co.html

http://www.wilderssecurity.com/threads/embedded-malware.324071/

http://blog.zeltser.com/post/23229415724/malicious-code-inside-office-documents

https://isc.sans.edu/diary/Analyzing+Malicious+RTF+Files+Using+OfficeMalScanner's+RTFScan/14092

So documents CAN be used to inject malware....

Re:Because hacking doesn't work that way (1)

ruir (2709173) | about 4 months ago | (#47564103)

Or instead if the hackers are running operating systems used by pros, instead of Microsoft...

And it'll keep happening, again and again... (3, Insightful)

TWX (665546) | about 4 months ago | (#47563425)

...until software and systems security is finally taken seriously. That may mean corporate LANs interconnected between sites by leased private fiber, where ther entire computer system for the company is not able to even reach the public Internet. That may mean that users have separate systems, one for internal communication within the company, and one for external communication to outsiders. That may also mean that companies stop allowing anything sensitive on public-reachable computers, and it might even mean that corporate IT departments have to look at hardware that doesn't allow for secure computers to even plug into regular, public networks, and for those 'regular' networks to be highly monitored and partially locked-down as to what IP ranges (and countries) can even be communicated with.

I can tell you one thing, if such a system were implemented there'd probably be an uptick in efficiency as now it'd be a lot harder to screw around at work. Sure, a lot of people would be really pissed that they can't do non-work tasks at work without using a system seeing such monitoring too, but given that salaries in the defense sector are generally pretty good, that's a tradeoff that one could probably stomach.

Re:And it'll keep happening, again and again... (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#47563519)

I'd bet most companies in the defense sector don't even have the level of security of a typical gaming company making the AAA titles. By the way, the secure systems can't be allowed to access even to the rest of the internal network of the company for such a separation be effective.

Re:And it'll keep happening, again and again... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#47563533)

Watch an old movie someday and you'll see people reading newspapers and magazines when bored at work. That will become acceptable again without the Internet. Also, downloaded podcasts.

Re:And it'll keep happening, again and again... (2)

m00sh (2538182) | about 4 months ago | (#47563581)

I can tell you one thing, if such a system were implemented there'd probably be an uptick in efficiency as now it'd be a lot harder to screw around at work. Sure, a lot of people would be really pissed that they can't do non-work tasks at work without using a system seeing such monitoring too, but given that salaries in the defense sector are generally pretty good, that's a tradeoff that one could probably stomach.

Except that efficiency does not work that way.

People screwing around at work is not the cause of inefficiency but a symptom of a hidden larger problem that is causing inefficiency.

Re:And it'll keep happening, again and again... (1)

TWX (665546) | about 4 months ago | (#47563709)

I'm well-aware that keeping employees busy with enough work and having enough oversight to help keep them on-task is important, but reducing distraction is also important. There's more than one contributing factor to inefficiency. I can suggest remedies for this one.

Re:And it'll keep happening, again and again... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#47564559)

... but reducing distraction is also important.

Depends on the distraction, because, e.g., looking at pictures of baby animals actually improves the performance [plosone.org] .

Re:And it'll keep happening, again and again... (1)

Ceriel Nosforit (682174) | about 4 months ago | (#47564489)

According to the article, that cause is email.

Re:And it'll keep happening, again and again... (1)

vux984 (928602) | about 4 months ago | (#47564237)

I can tell you one thing, if such a system were implemented there'd probably be an uptick in efficiency as now [...]

As all the SaaS they'd bought into broke completely, half the onsite software that relies on various web services and "phone-home" systems for licensing etc broke, all the B2B tools for everything from tracking/shipping packages to payroll tax tools to JIT supply chain management from their suppliers broke.

Yeah, there would be a real productivity bump. :)

Re:And it'll keep happening, again and again... (1)

GeekWithAKnife (2717871) | about 4 months ago | (#47564245)


I agree that systems of such sensitive nature need to be isolated but the problem is always how do you do this?
You could take away so much functionality that you are impeding productivity.

People bring their own devices, phones are powerful enough to use for many more tasks these days, productivity will not go up. That's a myth.

If the system in question was on a separate infrastructure, sophisticated and determined attackers will simply infiltrate the new system. Sure, it's an added layer of complexity and thus a bit more secure.

The real problem is not prevention, it's detection. I can walk into a bank today and leave with a few thousands of dollars. The real questions is, how do I do that undetected? without being caught later?

Online attacks are unfortunately very easy to mask, the attackers themselves are easily hidden and very hard to catch. IF they knew there's a good chance they are caught later, despite being able to EASILY pull off their intended crime then they'd be an effective deterrent.

Detection, deterrent. Not more doors & locks.

Re:And it'll keep happening, again and again... (1)

gtall (79522) | about 4 months ago | (#47564337)

So, you are going to deter Chinese hackers by outing them in public. Mao is laughing in his grave...and given the millions he caused to die, that's no small feat.

Re:And it'll keep happening, again and again... (1)

GeekWithAKnife (2717871) | about 4 months ago | (#47564369)

Thank you for applying, we will get back to you soon.

Actors (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#47563433)

I hate actors. They used to want everyone to always be paying attention to them, and now they're stealing military data.

On the other hand, if employees of movie studios are stealing plans for missiles, then maybe I'd should take another look at my file sharing...

BS (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#47564551)

I call BS. The article is way too specific. Even if true, hackers are entering everybody's systems all the time; this is just cherry picking. The real goal is to imply: "The Chinese are backing the Palestinians". The Chinese are bad guys, so obviously...

They were in their system for four months?!?! (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#47563477)

And these are supposed to be the "top" Israeli defense companies?! They have systems like this connected to the general internet? I can't facepalm hard enough.

Re:They were in their system for four months?!?! (1)

Opportunist (166417) | about 4 months ago | (#47563677)

It's easy to stay hidden once you're in. You'd be absolutely amazed how many companies have very strict rules at the entrance but if you manage to get past, there's little more than token security inside.

Re:They were in their system for four months?!?! (1)

1s44c (552956) | about 4 months ago | (#47564029)

The old design was always strong firewalls between the network and the Internet and nothing else. A lot of companies really believe that a stateful firewall will somehow prevent windows users running god knows what malware on their web connected desktop machines. Plus there are all the laptops and other devices staff plug straight into the core network. Plus VPN connection bridging the firewalls.

Computer security in most companies is a joke. That, apparently, includes defense contractors.

Re:They were in their system for four months?!?! (1)

ruir (2709173) | about 4 months ago | (#47564109)

Not really, the old design was an air gap, a small network without outside connectivity at all.

Re:They were in their system for four months?!?! (1)

Archtech (159117) | about 4 months ago | (#47564537)

But you can't have an air gap in the 21st Century... employees would be cut off from Facebook and Twitter, and that would deny them their human rights.

Re:They were in their system for four months?!?! (1)

dbIII (701233) | about 4 months ago | (#47564539)

a stateful firewall will somehow prevent windows users running god knows what malware on their web connected desktop machines

In the old days such machines were considered potentially hostile and not allowed on the same network as the production/process line machines. Sometimes you'd have something on both networks to carefully feed apropriate information to the potentially virus ridden machines that were used to type up reports.
Now we've got malware far beyond the dreams of those "paranoid" days yet things are left wide open - so what do you expect when another report comes out of outsiders stealing the crown jewels?

Iron Dome? (1)

rossdee (243626) | about 4 months ago | (#47563501)

What they need is a ;\'Chesters Mill Dome"

Re:Iron Dome? (1)

antdude (79039) | about 4 months ago | (#47563541)

And Big Jim! :P

Another day, another compromised system (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#47563511)

Any and all advanced weapons systems are targets for Chinese military. This being the most advanced of its kind in the world with a billion dollar price tag and said to be a precursor to a similar US system, of course the Chinese are going to pursue it. Likely both in replicating and finding holes in it.
There's big long papers out there spent entirely on the game theory & feasibility of missile defense systems, unfortunately we get to see it all play out in real life with real tax dollars rather than in academic papers.

Meh. (4, Insightful)

Etherwalk (681268) | about 4 months ago | (#47563547)

China is in a state of de facto war with every military R&D project in the world. Any defense contractor not locked down six ways from Sunday should be punished (or they should get a bonus for best practices.)

Re:Meh. (2)

aNonnyMouseCowered (2693969) | about 4 months ago | (#47564413)

Right. I won't trust a defense contractor whose security gets compromised using phishing emails. If the intrusion is more low level than that (the mythical compromised routers), then they might have a good excuse. If the story is true, and the Israelis aren't just making it up as a cover story or honeypot to attract would-be cyber-attackers from other less technically competent nations (Iran, N Korea, etc), then the defense contractors should be banned from future military contracts.

Re:Meh. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#47564505)

What really amaze me is that these alleged hacked companies are so good to determine it originates from China and so weak to protect themselves !

And naturally, no decent hacker will ever conceal his identity with the very plausible "Yellow Peril" propaganda.

Israel have murdered over 1,000 civillians (0, Troll)

mtthwbrnd (1608651) | about 4 months ago | (#47563551)

and now occupy 40% of the Gaza as a "buffer zone"... and /. is concerned about the Israelis getting hacked! I SPIT ON ./!

Israel have murdered over 1,000 civillians (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#47563871)

These are just the same ultra-libertarian jack-offs as always. They only care about what personally effects them, and in this case they can use the story to wave their e-dicks around trying to "school" a defense contractor. The vast majority are kids who haven't been able to find their own dicks for years.

Gee, isn't Iron Dome supposed to be worthless? (1, Insightful)

Applehu Akbar (2968043) | about 4 months ago | (#47563571)

Apparently the Chinese don't think so. Compared to the American liberal arts community of experts on missile defense, they must be sadly misinformed.

Re:Gee, isn't Iron Dome supposed to be worthless? (1)

Xenkar (580240) | about 4 months ago | (#47563599)

Perhaps they are looking to learn from Israel's mistakes. "Okay, this doesn't work effectively so we now know what not to waste our time on."

I just wish my government (the United States of America) would spend the aid money we send to Israel each year on securing our southern border from invaders rather than shooting down bottle rockets from Gaza Strip and the West Bank 5% of the time.

Re:Gee, isn't Iron Dome supposed to be worthless? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#47563609)

How do you go from hackers using a Chinese IP to "the Chinese" ?
MPAA/RIAA logic?

Re:Gee, isn't Iron Dome supposed to be worthless? (-1, Flamebait)

meglon (1001833) | about 4 months ago | (#47563649)

That's what i like about conservatives... you can always count on them to be completely oblivious to anything but their point of view, and to be rude little bitches with their fucking ignorance.

Reports are that Iron Dome is ~5% effective. That makes it a fantastical waste of resources that, ultimately, the United States taxpayers are footing the bill for. Those same people you deride for having, and using, a brain, also point out that Israels other tactics for alerting their population to impending rocket attacks has saved lives and is very effective against very small, unguided missiles that have a very small payload.

So i'm sorry you feel so threatened by them "American liberal arts community of experts" that you have to be a fucking cunt. Maybe if you use your brain instead of your ass to think with, you'd learn to read and quit being such worthless twat.

Re:Gee, isn't Iron Dome supposed to be worthless? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#47563769)

>Reports

Which ones? You mean there are reports besides Postol's that give the effectiveness at ~5%? Where?

Also: you're visibly perturbed. :^)

Re:Gee, isn't Iron Dome supposed to be worthless? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#47563925)

US taxpayers are basically footing the bill for much of Israel's apartheid 2.0 regime. $3M a day, was it? That might have gone some way domestically, for the folks in Detroit for example. But of course that would defeat the purpose, which is to say an enormous funnel of public money into private contractors greedy hands.

Re:Gee, isn't Iron Dome supposed to be worthless? (1)

1s44c (552956) | about 4 months ago | (#47564047)

You have a point. That money could have gone to feeding the homeless, upgrading some infrastructure, health care, regenerating Detroit, or a countless number of other things. Instead it's going to help a country that's oppressing its own people Saddam style and indirectly going to feed military secrets to the Chinese.

Re:Gee, isn't Iron Dome supposed to be worthless? (1)

gtall (79522) | about 4 months ago | (#47564363)

You mean like the international and American aid Hamas diverted to build tunnels and rockets to attack Israel rather than on schools, hospitals, etc.?

Re:Gee, isn't Iron Dome supposed to be worthless? (1)

Mashiki (184564) | about 4 months ago | (#47564021)

So, if it's 5% effective, why is it getting 80-90% of all the incoming rockets from Gaza? It appears that the H:M ratio is much higher than that, and it's "smart" enough to figure out which rockets are not going to land in a civilian area.

That liberal arts community is the same group that's happily pushed nuclear research back 30 years, so they can go fuck themselves, while sipping their latte in their ivory towers, while protesting capitalism.

Re:Gee, isn't Iron Dome supposed to be worthless? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#47564079)

Nobody, not even the Israeli's are claiming it gets 80-90% of incoming rockets. But I'm pretty sure you're a shill.

Re:Gee, isn't Iron Dome supposed to be worthless? (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#47564105)

I don't know how many rockets actually would fall on cities. I read that the iron dome only tries to intercept if it may hit a target. If less than 5% is going towards a target, it may be valid, but somewhat unethical, to say only 5% of fired rockets are successfully intercepted...

Re:Gee, isn't Iron Dome supposed to be worthless? (1)

DNS-and-BIND (461968) | about 4 months ago | (#47564147)

oblivious to anything but their point of view, and to be rude little bitches with their fucking ignorance.

be a fucking cunt

brain instead of your ass

worthless twat

You sure are projecting your fears onto others. Psychological projection is a theory in psychology in which humans defend themselves against unpleasant impulses by denying their existence in themselves, while attributing them to others. For example, a person who is rude may constantly accuse other people of being rude. I can't help but notice the sexist insults as well - what will your friends the feminists think about that? Please be consistent if you're going to be a bigot.

Re:Gee, isn't Iron Dome supposed to be worthless? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#47564161)

That's what i like about conservatives... you can always count on them to be completely oblivious to anything but their point of view, and to be rude little bitches with their fucking ignorance.

meglon meets his own description of a conservative

Re:Gee, isn't Iron Dome supposed to be worthless? (1)

drinkypoo (153816) | about 4 months ago | (#47563671)

All the target getting hacked proves is that someone thought the target was worth hacking. It doesn't mean that their [primary] goal was even to pilfer technological data, let alone useful technological data.

Re:Gee, isn't Iron Dome supposed to be worthless? (1)

aliquis (678370) | about 4 months ago | (#47563741)

Good enough to catch 90% of the rockets from Gaza.

Those likely aren't the latest and greatest of rocketry though.

Re:Gee, isn't Iron Dome supposed to be worthless? (1)

1s44c (552956) | about 4 months ago | (#47564055)

The intercepting rockets likely cost far more than the rockets being intercepted. Good job the US is footing the bill. More upstanding action from the country that called Saddam 'Our kind of guy".

Re:Gee, isn't Iron Dome supposed to be worthless? (1)

aliquis (678370) | about 4 months ago | (#47564185)

What was worse? Saddam or what they are getting right about now?

Same? =P

Even worthless system are worth a lot (1)

aepervius (535155) | about 4 months ago | (#47563969)

If you can see how it was done, see what the flaw is, and improve on the flaw. A worthless system is a system which was tried and which you can learn from without trying yourself. That means million dollar of R&D spared. Plus not all part of the system will be worthless.

Re:Even worthless system are worth a lot (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#47563981)

that would be a failed system, not a worthless system

Re:Gee, isn't Iron Dome supposed to be worthless? (2)

Savage-Rabbit (308260) | about 4 months ago | (#47564097)

Apparently the Chinese don't think so. Compared to the American liberal arts community of experts on missile defense, they must be sadly misinformed.

It depends on how you look at it. Iron Dome costs something like 20-30.000 dollars per shot. One of those home built Quassam rockets Hamas uses costs 5-800 dollars per shot, the Grad rockets probably a bit more. It's the same economy as dropping PGMs that start at 15-20.000 per unit (the Hellfire missiles used by the RQ-9 drones cost $110.000 per unit) on five man Taleban guerrilla groups carrying a grand total of 3-4000 dollars worth of equipment (tops). It adds up pretty quickly. If Hamas hoses off enough Quassam rockets the costs start to pile up for Israel but Israel can pay the monetary cost, the political cost of the slaughter happening in Gaza at the moment is another matter and we haven't even talked about the side effects. I was Hamas, now that they can reach Ben Gurion airport, I'd start hosing those rockets off at Ben Gurion in the biggest volleys I could manage. The rockets as such don't do much damage but the cessation of international flights into Israel does, the fact that Iron Dome would probably start to falter under such a load would be damaging to the politicos who sank all that money into it and the fact that Airlines aren't willing to allow their aircraft to fly though a rain of rocket fire to land at Ben Gurion is doing massive economic and political damage. All you need is to saturate Iron Dome and achieve enough accuracy to ensure that a few of rockets reach the airfield perimeter at regular intervals. If you can do that you have effectively obliged anybody flying in and out of Israel to make a stop-over in Cyprus until other arrangements can be made. It would seem increasingly more sensible to just stop this stupid fighting, get over the idea of Greater Israel and make peace with the Palestinians, but that won't happen until Netanyahu and Liberman have conclusively proven that some problems cannot be solved by bombing them and pretty much the same goes for Hamas and their idiotic obsession with destroying Israel. Not that I think that is likely to happen, both sides have been radicalized beyond recovery by their own fanaticism and intransigence.

Re:Gee, isn't Iron Dome supposed to be worthless? (1)

Sockatume (732728) | about 4 months ago | (#47564221)

The US government put a lot of time and effort into spying on the USSR's paranormal operations research, and even replicating some of it at home; it was still almost entirely worthless.

Any person responsible for any military data in (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#47563603)

any nation who puts that data onto a computer that is connected to the internet should be tried for treason by his own country and should be executed. There is simply no valid reason to do this other than to enable your nation's enemies to access your data. This applies just as much to employees of an Israeli firm, an American firm, a Russian firm, a Chinese firm.... ANY nation whose "experts" put any such data onto a system that is attached to the net should EXECUTE such traitors as quickly as possible.

I'm a non-partisan hater of foolishness and treachery.

Pr0n (1)

meglon (1001833) | about 4 months ago | (#47563607)

Helluva lot of trouble just to hide their porn.

Yea-uh but it's China (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#47563631)

If they build it, it will break soon after.

Why? (2)

Berkyjay (1225604) | about 4 months ago | (#47563645)

How is it that companies dealing with sensitive information can store these sensitive files on a network exposed to the outside world? It would seem to be a fairly cheap and such a small inconvenience to have a separate network of machines that are completely walled off from the outside.

Two computers is too expensive and cumbersome (1)

dutchwhizzman (817898) | about 4 months ago | (#47563715)

Most managers wouldn't want people to have two computers on their desk, since hey, they can save 50% on desk top systems by merging them. As long as system admins do their work, nothing could go wrong, right? I'm a penetration tester by trade and no matter where I go, even thin clients and virtual machine setups aren't properly separated.

People trust way too much in technical capabilities of devices and underestimate the ingenuity and perseverance of intruders to circumvent or penetrate those devices. Sneakernet to transfer data from and to the internal network(s) and not using VLANs for separating them isn't too bad if implemented properly. Computers are way cheaper than people. They are way cheaper than technical solutions to keep networks separated including their maintenance. They are way cheaper than having an incident where your internal IT is compromised. It just looks more expensive on the desktop, which is the only place non-security people tend to look.

Re:Two computers is too expensive and cumbersome (1)

mpe (36238) | about 4 months ago | (#47564285)

Most managers wouldn't want people to have two computers on their desk, since hey, they can save 50% on desk top systems by merging them. As long as system admins do their work, nothing could go wrong, right?

The "air gapped" approach may well involve even more system admin work. Since both "secure" and "insecure" networks need to go to the same desks. Even if they have completly different cabling runs and cabinets. Then there's the issue of things like "sneaker net". Even someone plugging cables into the wrong place "accidentally".

Re:Why? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#47563729)

How is it that companies dealing with sensitive information can store these sensitive files on a network exposed to the outside world? It would seem to be a fairly cheap and such a small inconvenience to have a separate network of machines that are completely walled off from the outside.

Who says they're on an externally accessible network? Maybe the payload was carried to the sensitive computers on USB sticks? Maybe that printer driver they used was tainted? Maybe now whenever they transfer files to USB from those sensitive computers some extra data is written to some unused blocks at the end of the device and is picked up by the connected computers.
Security in the digital age is really fucking hard.

I don't get it! (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#47563657)

I still don't understand why sensitive documents are on computers connected to public networks. They need to set up private networks with cold connected lines, not public vpn.

Canada hacked too (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#47563675)

The NRC in Canada also got hacked into. The only technology file stolen was a genetic engineering project to make maple syrup sweeter. :)

Re: Canada hacked too (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#47563801)

Mmmmm, maple syrup!

Bullshit (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#47563869)

The actors compromised privileged credentials, dumped password hashes, and gathered system, file, and network information for several systems.

And yet, they didn't properly cover their tracks? Just how exactly would you find out that someone has dumped password hashes a few months since the incident? Sure, that's first thing to do for anyone who just got access to interesting target, but how would you prove it with 90-100% certainty?

US Support (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#47563935)

US support of Israel and their defense industry is a cheaper way to develop weapons. And also funnel public money into Republican campaign contributions.

This is a good thing. (1)

satuon (1822492) | about 4 months ago | (#47563957)

If those attacks continue, and if they cause damage, people will start paying attention and will change the way their OS is secured. I think that the Android OS has it right - no user-generated files should be executable in any way, including scripts. You have 2 partitions - one that is executable, but only admins can write to it, and one that the user can write in, but nothing is executable there.

Antisemitic hackers (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#47564035)

The people who did this are obviously antisemitic.

Technology transfer (1)

lagomorpha2 (1376475) | about 4 months ago | (#47564143)

So Chinese hackers stole American technology from Israel? You mean Israel didn't just sell it to the Chinese this time?

Re:Technology transfer (1)

mpe (36238) | about 4 months ago | (#47564291)

So Chinese hackers stole American technology from Israel? You mean Israel didn't just sell it to the Chinese this time?

Alternativly it was a US (or Israeli) competitor covering their tracks by pretending to be from China.

Microsoft Iron Dome? (1, Insightful)

lippydude (3635849) | about 4 months ago | (#47564179)

"AI was initially breached on April 16, 2012 by a series of specially crafted email phishing attacks"

Just who in their right minds keep 'secret' files on a Windows computer?

Re:Microsoft Iron Dome? (3, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#47564563)

What does 'specially crafted email phishing' attacks have to do with Windows?

Convincing someone to alter settings on their machine, download a file, or process some request has little to do with the OS in question.

Same Old Vulnerability (1)

some old guy (674482) | about 4 months ago | (#47564193)

So these were "carefully crafted" phishing attacks, eh? Wow, go figure. This is just another high-profile example of a basic security truism: as long as people with insufficient security awareness (and common sense) have access to data, said data is vulnerable. Once again, the weak link is between the chair and the keyboard. It always will be.

exfiltrated? (1)

cascadingstylesheet (140919) | about 4 months ago | (#47564387)

"withdraw (troops or spies) surreptitiously, especially from a dangerous position."

Mmmm (2)

nospam007 (722110) | about 4 months ago | (#47564399)

Looks like they could use an irone dome for their network too.

Just doing their job, right? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#47564501)

To quote the excuses of all those NSA apologists:

The Chinese spying agencies are just doing what they are supposed to do, right? What's there to complain about? These are military targets, it's not like they are spying Cisco for Huawei's benefit here (not to say they aren't also doing that).

Aren't everyone else doing the same thing? You are fool if you think the Russians, Germans, French, Japanese, Australians, etc, are not all doing it.

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