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Tiger MP Dual-Processor Motherboard

michael posted about 13 years ago | from the double-the-pleasure dept.

Hardware 232

CtrlPhreak writes: "Anandtech has posted a review of an affordable AMD 760 based motherboard, the Tyan Tiger MP. It's basically the Tyan Thunder K7 without all the integration. For $220, it's a great deal. It has the exact same performance as the Thunder, and it is tested to run fine with those cheap and fast 1ghz durons. They say Tyan is putting out this board to compete with other offerings of a cheap 760 platform, we can only hope."

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$220 is a cheap motherboard these days? (1)

TechnoVooDooDaddy (470187) | about 13 years ago | (#2358991)

Damn... $220 for a motherboard? what happened to sub $100 motherboards? geeze, i've been buying DLL too long i guess.

I was hoping to build an AMD system for $400 or less... but spending $220 on a motherboard ain't gonna get me there..

Re:$220 is a cheap motherboard these days? (2, Informative)

Brento (26177) | about 13 years ago | (#2359005)

Damn... $220 for a motherboard? what happened to sub $100 motherboards?

Read the article again. It's a dual-CPU motherboard, meaning you can plug in a pair of Athlons or Durons. Sub-$100 motherboards support a single CPU.

Re:$220 is a cheap motherboard these days? (0, Redundant)

irksome (106742) | about 13 years ago | (#2359008)

It's a dual-processor motherboard.

-

Re:$220 is a cheap motherboard these days? (1)

X (1235) | about 13 years ago | (#2359012)

It's cheap when you consider it's dual-processor using the Althlon's fancy bus. This board has 2x the bandwidth of a single processor board.

Re:$220 is a cheap motherboard these days? (1)

JEDi_ERiAN (79402) | about 13 years ago | (#2359017)

since when does the average pc user need a dual processor system anyway? single processor mobo's can be had for $100. dual processor systems are primarily aimed at server applications.

E.

Why a simple home user needs a dual-CPU MB (5, Funny)

telekon (185072) | about 13 years ago | (#2359218)

Of course having two CPUs isn't as important as having 384 or 512 gigs of RAM, but it's a valid concern for the average home user...

See, these days, the average home user wants to run Nautilus and Netscape simultaneously in Enlightenment on top of GNOME with antialiased screen fonts and alpha-rendered transparent xterms, while he (or she) watches Antitrust on DVD in a window (if LiViD worked) and works in Photoshop running on VMWare.

This is what the average home user wants these days, and so the average home user is building his (or her) own PC because Dell and Gateway just aren't offering it.

Re:Why a simple home user needs a dual-CPU MB (-1)

CmdrTaco on (468152) | about 13 years ago | (#2359471)

You just described the anti-average user.

Re:$220 is a cheap motherboard these days? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 13 years ago | (#2359254)

Since games, graphics design and CAD so who said its for the average PC anyway? On the other hand many servers are way over built CPU wise as CPUs wait for I/O so it is not really built specifically for anything.

Re:$220 is a cheap motherboard these days? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 13 years ago | (#2359377)

/* since when does the average pc user need a dual processor system anyway? /*

Since the DivX:-) format came out and I discovered a need to watch at least three Rocco films simultaneously...erm, so I can render 3D scenes blazingly fast...

Re:$220 is a cheap motherboard these days? (1)

curtS (214040) | about 13 years ago | (#2359058)

Get an ECS K7S5A mobo for $70. SiS735 chipset, stable, best deal in town. I've built two boxen with 'em. See Tom's Hardware here [tomshardware.com] or the AnandTech forum here [anandtech.com] .

Re:$220 is a cheap motherboard these days? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 13 years ago | (#2359128)

I've built two boxen with 'em.

when you say boxen instead of boxes it doesn't make you sound cool, it makes you sound like an idiot who's trying to sound cool. just give it a rest.

Re:$220 is a cheap motherboard these days? (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | about 13 years ago | (#2359175)

and the plural of beeotch isn't beeotchae, beeeotch!

Re:$220 is a cheap motherboard these days? (1)

brad3378 (155304) | about 13 years ago | (#2359079)

The version with Onboard Ultra160 SCSI costs about $100 more, But IMHO still seems reasonable considering this board has two 10/100 NICS supports 3 gigs of DDR, and has tons of other features.

I've been keeping an eye on this board at Pricewatch.com, but unfortunately the price hasn't been dropping nearly as fast as other computer stuff.

VANILLA ICE (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | about 13 years ago | (#2358992)

Loves AMD.

It rox for my phat beats!!!

FP ladiez!!

VI

fp (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 13 years ago | (#2358994)

fp

Go AMD! (0)

JEDi_ERiAN (79402) | about 13 years ago | (#2359001)

this is great, now that they have cheaper/better/faster processor's than Intel for the desktop, AMD can tap into the server market, where the real money is to be made.

E.

Pacifist Claptrap (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | about 13 years ago | (#2359013)

By Michael Kelly
Wednesday, September 26, 2001; Page A25

Pacifists are not serious people, although they devoutly believe they are, and their arguments are not being taken seriously at the moment. Yet it is worth taking seriously, and in advance of need, the pacifists and their appeal.

It is worth it, first of all, because the idea of peace is inherently attractive; and the more war there is, the more attractive the idea becomes. Second, it is worth it because the reactionary left-liberal crowd in America and in Europe has already staked out its ground here: What happened to America is America's fault, the fruits of foolish arrogance and greedy imperialism, racism, colonialism, etc., etc. From this rises an argument that the resulting war is also an exercise in arrogance and imperialism, etc., and not deserving of support. This argument will be made with greater fearlessness as the first memories of the 7,000 murdered recede. Third, it is worth it because the American foreign policy establishment has all the heart for war of a titmouse, and not one of your braver titmice. The first faint, let-us-be-reasonable bleats can even now be heard: Yes, we must do something, but is an escalation of aggression really the right thing? Mightn't it just make matters ever so much worse?

Pacifists see themselves as obviously on the side of a higher morality, and there is a surface appeal to this notion, even for those who dismiss pacifism as hopelessly naive. The pacifists' argument is rooted entirely in this appeal: Two wrongs don't make a right; violence only begets more violence.

There can be truth in the pacifists' claim to the moral high ground, notably in the case of a war that is waged for manifestly evil purposes. So, for instance, a German citizen who declined to fight for the Nazi cause could be seen (although not likely by his family and friends) as occupying the moral position. But in the situation where one's nation has been attacked -- a situation such as we are now in -- pacifism is, inescapably and profoundly, immoral. Indeed, in the case of this specific situation, pacifism is on the side of the murderers, and it is on the side of letting them murder again.

In 1942 George Orwell wrote this, in Partisan Review, of Great Britain's pacifists:

"Pacifism is objectively pro-Fascist. This is elementary common sense. If you hamper the war effort of one side you automatically help out that of the other. Nor is there any real way of remaining outside such a war as the present one. In practice, 'he that is not with me is against me.' "

England's pacifists howled, but Orwell's logic was implacable. The Nazis wished the British to not fight. If the British did not fight, the Nazis would conquer Britain. The British pacifists also wished the British to not fight. The British pacifists, therefore, were on the side of a Nazi victory over Britain. They were objectively pro-Fascist.

An essentially identical logic obtains now. Organized terrorist groups have attacked America. These groups wish the Americans to not fight. The American pacifists wish the Americans to not fight. If the Americans do not fight, the terrorists will attack America again. And now we know such attacks can kill many thousands of Americans. The American pacifists, therefore, are on the side of future mass murders of Americans. They are objectively pro-terrorist.

There is no way out of this reasoning. No honest person can pretend that the groups that attacked America will, if let alone, not attack again. Nor can any honest person say that this attack is not at least reasonably likely to kill thousands upon thousands of innocent people. To not fight in this instance is to let the attackers live to attack and murder again; to be a pacifist in this instance is to accept and, in practice, support this outcome.

As President Bush said of nations: A war has been declared; you are either on one side or another. You are either for doing what is necessary to capture or kill those who control and fund and harbor the terrorists, or you are for not doing this. If you are for not doing this, you are for allowing the terrorists to continue their attacks on America. You are saying, in fact: I believe that it is better to allow more Americans -- perhaps a great many more -- to be murdered than to capture or kill the murderers.

That is the pacifists' position, and it is evil.

Mod down this garbage (-1, Offtopic)

ergo98 (9391) | about 13 years ago | (#2359045)

This is total bullshit. If there was a clear enemy for whom attacking will actually achieve anything except strengthen the enemy most so-called pacifists would be suiting up and loading up their clips. As it is though it's a bunch of kill-hungry moroons without the slightest concept what they're doing.


Let me turn this around a bit: If you're for dropping bombs right now with no clear conviction of who you're fighting or what it will achieve, you are HELPING THE ENEMY. You are strengthening their resolve and helping them recruit many more terrorists who will be willing to kill thousands more Americans. If you are busy running to Slashdot to push articles like this inherently you love Osama because you pray for him or his successor to grow stronger. Perhaps you should be imprisoned as a traitor.


Ride me, CowboyNeil! (decode and enjoy) (I) (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | about 13 years ago | (#2359018)

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====

Don't get this one (5, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | about 13 years ago | (#2359022)

The Tiger MP is a sweet mobo. However, AMD will be coming out with a new MP chipset called the 760MPX. The MPX has two distinct improvements. First, registered DDR RAM will not be necessary. Any old DDR RAM will do. Secondly, the MPX will support 66Mhz 64-bit PCI slots.

Re:Don't get this one (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 13 years ago | (#2359203)

Why does the Tiger MP feature 4 DDR slots, but claim only a max memory of 3GB? What am I missing here?

Re:Don't get this one (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 13 years ago | (#2359327)

Because Tiger MP supports 6 banks of memory, not 8. So if you use memory with two banks per DIMM (as most very large DIMMs are), you can only use 3 of those 4 DRR slots.

Re:Don't get this one (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 13 years ago | (#2359484)

Does that mean I can't use 4 256MB DIMMs, or are those single banks?

Re:Don't get this one (1)

geekwin (522031) | about 13 years ago | (#2359328)

It can be due to you can use non registered DDR RAM at the first two slots with registered DDR RAM at the rest?

one question (-1)

ArchieBunker (132337) | about 13 years ago | (#2359381)

What devices use 64bit pci slots? I know they've been around for years on Alpha's but don't seem that popular.

Re:one question (1)

mattdm (1931) | about 13 years ago | (#2359411)

SCSI 160 cards -- Adaptec 29160, for example. Also, I think some high-end PCI graphics cards.

Re:Don't get this one (1)

Telastyn (206146) | about 13 years ago | (#2359467)

wait... the Tyan Thunder can support the 66mhz 64bit PCI already. and the Tiger can support normal old DDR (though only 2)

Do you guys even read the articles?

kick arse (-1, Redundant)

Anonymous Coward | about 13 years ago | (#2359023)

These things are gonna kick arse!! Things you can buy for ~$200 are getting cooler.

-Me

UnitedAgainstTerrorism.com [unitedagai...rorism.com]

How are the drivers for it? (1, Insightful)

dave-fu (86011) | about 13 years ago | (#2359025)

And the stability?
Or: is it based off of the Via chipset? That bleeping chipset seems to be in eternal beta.
The stability of the motherboards is, IMHO, the biggest thing keeping AMDs out of the server room. Admins don't give a damn about overclocking the CPUs, they want rock-solid performance and to not have to futz around with 8000 BIOS settings.

Re:How are the drivers for it? (1)

MrWood (179426) | about 13 years ago | (#2359054)

It's based on the 760 MP chipset from AMD. Desigen by and for AMD chips. Stability? time will tell.

Re:How are the drivers for it? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 13 years ago | (#2359072)

>And the stability?
>Or: is it based off of the Via chipset? That
>bleeping chipset seems to be in eternal beta.
>The stability of the motherboards is, IMHO, the
>biggest thing keeping AMDs out of the server
>room. Admins don't give a damn about
>overclocking the

Dork,

Did you even bother to read the link? Geez!

Re:How are the drivers for it? (5, Insightful)

SlamboS (129106) | about 13 years ago | (#2359168)

I have the Thunder K7 and I haven't had one problem with stability yet. I haven't had a problem in over a month so far, running Windows 2000. I'm running 2x Athlon MP @ 1.2GHz. I'm really happy with this machine. It really heats up the room, though. I have 5 extra case fans and the ones in the back blow out very hot air. That's the only downside to it so far.

amd (-1)

mackga (990) | about 13 years ago | (#2359027)

sucks. everyone knows this. what kind of shitty disinformation is /. now putting out, huh? get with the program assholes, the only good chip is intel; the only good os is win2k (or xp, or whatever), the only good arab is a dead one. where's your fucking partiotism?

Slashdot is not.... (-1, Flamebait)

BillyGoatThree (324006) | about 13 years ago | (#2359053)

....dealnews?

(I might note in passing that the "lameness filter" and "enforced 20 second wait" are morally and, in some cases, practically identical with overbearing and ineffective security measures being put into place in airports. Both systems reduce system usability and flexibility while doing little or nothing to stop hijacking. I guess trolls are Slashdot's terrorists and Rob is exactly as smart as Bush. God help us all.)

Re:Slashdot is not.... (-1, Offtopic)

SamBeckett (96685) | about 13 years ago | (#2359069)

You are a fucking moron, my friend. Do you think the president himself makes every damn decision the Federal Government is responsible for?

ASUS and MSI first 760MPX motherboards (5, Informative)

geekwin (522031) | about 13 years ago | (#2359060)

We have photographs [metropoli2000.com] of the new Asus and MSI 760MPX mobos.

RAM . . . (1)

Kaiser Sose (523049) | about 13 years ago | (#2359062)

Great price for an apparently awesome board, but I dont really wanna pay the extra for the Registered Ram . . .

Looks like I've now got something to save my paychecks for :)

Re:RAM . . . (2, Informative)

greenfly (40953) | about 13 years ago | (#2359136)

Apparently you only need the registered RAM if you are going to use more than 2 Memory banks, the article says more about it. It apparently has to do with electrical load on the memory bus. The Anandtech review has this to say:

The Tiger MP keeps the 4 DIMM slots of the Thunder K7 which is a good thing since efficiency in higher end applications is not only governed by CPU and platform performance, but memory size as well. This also forces it to keep the registered DDR SDRAM requirement, but only if more than two banks are populated. If you only install two modules then you should be fine with regular DDR SDRAM (provided that it has no specific compatibility issues with the Tiger MP). During our tests we ran the board with Corsair Registered DDR SDRAM modules and the same Crucial unregistered DDR SDRAM we use in all of our other tests. As long as only two slots were filled, the stability was identical and the performance was roughly the same (the unregistered modules are theoretically faster but that doesn't translate into any tangible performance gains). When more than three unregistered DIMMs were installed the system would not POST; and adding a third registered DIMM to a set of two unregistered DIMMs would not boot either.

Re:RAM . . . (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 13 years ago | (#2359277)

w0w.

You have to pay less than $4.00 more per 256MB DIMM for registered vs. non-registered ECC PC2100 DDR @ Crucial.com. And it's just $7.00 more per 256MB DIMM for registered ECC vs non-party PC2100 DDR DRAM.

You cheap-ass!

Why would I need 2 Athlons? (5, Funny)

SpanishInquisition (127269) | about 13 years ago | (#2359067)

One is quite enough to heat up my appartment during the coldest winter nights. That motherboard is for someone with a big house or something.

Re:Why would I need 2 Athlons? (1)

arkanes (521690) | about 13 years ago | (#2359100)

When I'm hacking late at night and it's really cold, I stick my toes on the power supply for modem, and hang my legs over the my (open) case. Keeps me toasty.

Re:Why would I need 2 Athlons? (2)

Pope (17780) | about 13 years ago | (#2359172)

You apparently don't live in Canada :)
Damn, my G4 sure won't keep me warm, I gotta leave this 19" monitor on all the time...

Re:Why would I need 2 Athlons? (1)

SpanishInquisition (127269) | about 13 years ago | (#2359188)

I fact I do

And this one uses a standard PS (5, Informative)

greenfly (40953) | about 13 years ago | (#2359085)

Nice thing about this board in comparison with Tyan's other AMD MP offerings is the fact that you can use a standard ATX power supply. Tyan's previous boards required that you purchase a proprietary 450W power supply. They recommend at least 300W, though. I'm running one of these right now with a single 1.2 Palomino on the 300W PS that came with my In-Win Q500N with no problems as of yet. While it can handle a standard power supply now, Tyan still recommends that you use Registered PC2100 RAM for it. I was able to find 256M for around $50 or so.

I recommend Einux Systems [einuxsys.com] if you are looking for a place to purchase a motherboard processor combo for this board.

Before this board came out I was going to go for a dual PIII 1Ghz system, but since that type of processor is always going to stay at 1Ghz, I figured it was worth the extra money to be able to upgrade this board to wherever the Palomino chipset ends up (from what I've heard it the chipset should be able to scale up to 2Ghz or so).

There are supposed to be other boards released by Abit, MSI, etc. in the next month or two that will be even cheaper, but if you are like me and couldn't wait (and aren't planning on overclocking your system) then this board is a good choice.

That big power supply (2)

hawk (1151) | about 13 years ago | (#2359342)

It's not for the athlons & mb. It's for the entire system. Anywone buying one of these would typically be loading it up with lots of u160 scsi drives and the like.


Once the prices settle after the October chip announcements, I'll be having one of these built with the Thunder board (unless something else comes along :). I *do* need u160 scsi, and will be loading it up with about 4 15k cheetahs for my workstation. mmm, raw power . . .


hawk

Re:That big power supply (2)

(H)elix1 (231155) | about 13 years ago | (#2359500)

Actually, the extra connector was for the Video card... I kid you not! The AGP pro? spec wanted an insane amount of power to be available to the video card. I've never seen a video card that ran extra power through the mainboard - several that did use an external power connecter, however...

Re:And this one uses a standard PS (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 13 years ago | (#2359384)

I just purchased this motherboard/cpu combo from Einux Systems.. they shipped it ground for very cheap and I got it in 4 business days. I have yet to boot it up (waiting for Heatsinks to arrive), but it is all ready in the case.

From all the reviews this is a good motherboard for those who want a stable platform to run a dual system. I couldn't wait any longer either.. my sister needs a computer and she is getting my old one.

I will be using a 365W PS to power this and all my extras (6 hard drives). Here is an overview of my new system.

Dual Athlon 1.2Ghz MP (Swifttech MC370-0A heatsink)
Tyan Tiger MP Motherboard
Geforce2 GTS 64MB
512MB ECC Registered RAM from Mushkin
SB Live! Gamer
Sony 19" G420S monitor
Seagate IDE 40GB 7200RPM Drive
5 Ultra-160 10K SCSI Drives 36GB Drives (SW Raid5)
5 bay Hotswap drive enclosure for the SCSI Drives (Enlight Corp)
Enermax FS-710BB Case 5 Fans Built-in
Enermax EG365P-VE Dual Fans
Adaptec 29160 SCSI card
Intel 10/100 NIC

-Tank

Re:And this one uses a standard PS (2)

mach-5 (73873) | about 13 years ago | (#2359412)

Yes, but the specs call for the 5V to be able to kick out at least 30A. I don't know if this can happen with a "standard" supply. Anyone who knows more about power supplies wish to comment on the current capability of the 5V node?

Tyan 2460, nice but picky (5, Informative)

MadCow42 (243108) | about 13 years ago | (#2359109)

I ordered one of these a few weeks ago, and unfortunately it arrived "Dead On Arrival".

I've been talking to a lot of other 2460 owners, and everyone is impressed, but everyone agrees that it can also be a very picky board.

There's been many reports of memory related problems, specifically with some brands of memory. The consensus so far is that Corsair memory has been the most reliable.

Once it's up an running though, there's been nothing but raving reviews.

MadCow... anxiously awaiting my replacement mobo...

Re:Tyan 2460, nice but picky (1)

exodus2 (88214) | about 13 years ago | (#2359508)

I have one running as a server for a small non-profit I volunteer for, It has 2 256k non reg ram and 2 1.2 non mp processors in a 65 dollar case, it runs great and has not had any problem. Its running axon linux

Whole article link (3, Informative)

[amorphis] (45762) | about 13 years ago | (#2359114)

Get the whole article in one shot with the Print Article [anandtech.com] link.

check specs first (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 13 years ago | (#2359118)

As always,
before you buy, make sure you know what you're getting into.

This is a Kick-butt MoBo, but supposedly requires a 460 watt power supply!

Also, (I may be wrong), I thought that this board required the more expensive AMD "MP" processors.
Somebody here claimed it can run on Durons, but like a lot of what I read on the internet, I'm somewhat sceptical.

check article first! (0)

Looge Over All! (454290) | about 13 years ago | (#2359278)

Perhaps you should make sure you know what you're talking about before posting!

First, it uses a standard ATX power supply not the 460 watt custom one required by its big brother.
Second, the most recent Durons are identical to Athlon MPs aside from the amount of L2 cache.

Re:check specs first (1)

Penguinoflight (517245) | about 13 years ago | (#2359401)

The Latest Duron 1ghz is based on the palomino core, and of course would be able to run on this motherboard. But in theory any socket a Processor should work, because they all have SMP support. The thing is though, the major "extra" cost lies in these "Cheap" motherboards (they were $500 at first). Athlon MP 1.2ghz will only run you about $50 more than a regular one, and the MP seems to be more overclockable. Mostly we need cheaper dual processor motherboards for a really good Athlon system. I still want a VIA chipset on one of these. Via rulez.

Afghan smacked George!!! (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | about 13 years ago | (#2359119)

> > Mullah Mohammed Hasan Akhund, the deputy Taliban leader, and
> George W. Bush
> >agree to meet in Kabul for the first round of talks in a new
> anti-terrorism
> >process. When George sits down, he notices three buttons on the arm of
> >Akhund's chair. They begin talking.
> >
> > After about five minutes Akhund presses the first button. A
> boxing glove
> >springs out of a box on the desk and punches Bush in the
> >face. Annoyed, Bush carries on talking as Akhund laughs. A
> few minutes
> >later the second button is pressed. This time a big boot comes
> out and kicks
> >Bush in the shin.
> > Again Akhund laughs, and again George carries on talking,
> not wanting to
> >put off the bigger issue of peace between the two countries. But
> >when the third button is pressed and another boot comes out and
> kicks Bush
> >square in the privates, he's finally had enough.
> >
> > "I'm headin' back home!" he calmly tells the Afghan. "We'll
> finish these
> >talks in Washington in two weeks!"
> >
> > A fortnight passes and Akhund flies to the United States
> for talks. As
> >the two men sit down, Akhund notices three buttons on Bush's
> >chair arm and prepares himself for the Texan's retaliation.
> >
> > They begin talking and George presses the first button.
> Akhund ducks,
> >but nothing happens. George snickers but they continue talking. A
> >few minutes later he presses the second button. Akhund jumps up,
> but again
> >nothing happens. Bush roars with laughter. They continue the
> talks but when
> >the third button is pressed, Akhund jumps up again, but again nothing
> >happens.
> > Bush falls on the floor in a fit of hysterics.
> > "Forget this," says Akhund. "I'm going back to Afghanistan!"
> > George W. says, through tears of laughter, "What Afghanistan??"
> >

Re:Afghan smacked George!!! (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | about 13 years ago | (#2359360)

amin err amen

Anandtech...WTF again? (-1, Flamebait)

Red Moose (31712) | about 13 years ago | (#2359131)

What, have you /. ubergeeks only just discovered Anandtech or something? Surely reporting on this sort of thing is for the hardware sites....yes news for Geeks, but come on. Just 3 days ago you linked up the nForce review as well.

Do people just patrol the real tech sites to get a link or a credit on a weblog?

Registered DDR is not a handicap. (5, Informative)

Shivetya (243324) | about 13 years ago | (#2359132)

256Mb dimms are only $7.00 dollars more than their unregistered brethern. Checking crucial's site confirmed the cost really is not an issue

This looks the motherboard I was waiting for, as I don't need all the bells the previous offering had, let alone the price tag.

Granted a 64bit/66mhz bus chipset is coming out, but for those to whom this board appeals to most likely won't need the 66mhz PCI.

You buy from Crucial? (1)

Penguinoflight (517245) | about 13 years ago | (#2359430)

That's funny, I don't. In fact, if cost is an issue you shouldn't be. Use Pricewatch man. I'm sure that you'll find that the difference is sufficiently more than $7.00 dollars.

Speaking of DDR... (2)

TheSHAD0W (258774) | about 13 years ago | (#2359493)

Does anyone know where I can get 512M DDR? I've seen a few places in the various price bots, but not at a decent price from anyone I'd trust to buy from.

Re:Speaking of DDR... (2)

ASCIIMan (47627) | about 13 years ago | (#2359510)

Muskin. [mushkin.com] This text here to defeat the lamo lameness compression filter.

Tyan troubles. (2)

Futurepower(tm) (228467) | about 13 years ago | (#2359154)


I've had trouble with getting tech support from Tyan. I've also had trouble with their manuals not being complete.

Re:Tyan troubles. (1)

ithink2 (316352) | about 13 years ago | (#2359300)

Buy your mobo's locally. I quit buying mobo's thru the Net a few years ago for just that reason. Mobo makers give crappy support. So I found a local store owned by two brothers and they get all my mobo business. If they don't stock it, they'll order it. And their service is great. Sure, I pay a little more, but it is well worth it. How much is peace of mind worth to you? ;)

(Athlon-Heatsink) = Toast (5, Informative)

SexPig (464304) | about 13 years ago | (#2359163)

I've used AMD processors and would've bought AMD when I upgraded my machine 5 mos ago if the SMP capabilities were there but I'm not so certain now after the Tom's Hardware review. In the review (posted on /.) it demonstrated heatsinks being removed from the CPU while in operation. Both the PIII & PIV survived but the Athlons fried up with one taking the motherboard with it.

I think we all use Linux for it's across the board stability so why not apply those high expectations to the hardware we put in those boxes? I for one think that I may not be purchasing AMD until they address the fact that the heat monitoring system that works for a fan-failure should also work for aa heatsink begin dislodged. Else you may find yourself out the $$ for a processor as well as the cost of your kick-ass Tyan mobo.

Re:(Athlon-Heatsink) = Toast (5, Insightful)

RollingThunder (88952) | about 13 years ago | (#2359232)

In related news, a test of automobile engines showed poor design, as they all seized when the oil was drained out while they were running...

Sure, the TBirds cook off without a heatsink. However, you can get two, maybe three, TBirds for the price of one PIV, and they'll still kick it's ass. ESPECIALLY in multiprocessor systems.

So, do you want that safety limiter on your speed, in the bizarre case that your heatsink FALLS OFF, or do you really want to floor it?

Re:(Athlon-Heatsink) = Toast (2, Insightful)

SexPig (464304) | about 13 years ago | (#2359302)

If a result of the seized engine was a fire that took out pedestrians it would not be acceptable. I had a faulty mobo catch on fire once and it made me nervous to leave my box up n' running at home while at the office (was the sound chip from a Dell system).

Also, an oil light in the car notifies you when oil is low (like CPU hot notification) but a car does not usually idle unattended whereas a computer does.

Finally, the feature exists in one brand but not the other (Athlon vs Pentium) so I don't find your analogy convincing.

If you insist on car analogies, though, I'll take the Volvo, sir!

Re:(Athlon-Heatsink) = Toast (0)

Looge Over All! (454290) | about 13 years ago | (#2359335)

I suppose I must explain the other poster's point for the extremely slow witted among us.

The point of the analogy was that all the oil in your engine will not spontaneously and instantaneously drain out while you are driving along, just as a steroid pumped German bloke with a screwdriver and a pair of pliers will not open up your computer after it's been running for half an hour and laboriously pry off your CPU cooler.

It was an absurd test which has left a huge number of readers wondering about Tom's sanity and whether it's related to the renewal of the ad contract with Intel on his site.

Re:(Athlon-Heatsink) = Toast (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 13 years ago | (#2359382)

For a server, the PIV way is the best; it keeps running.

design (-1)

ArchieBunker (132337) | about 13 years ago | (#2359418)

It just shows the difference in quality. Intel obviously made a more stable cpu with a safety precaution that works. Now AMD looks like its cutting corners just to get the product out the door. Personally I wouldn't buy a cpu that catches fire in under a second.

Re:(Athlon-Heatsink) = Toast (2, Funny)

pcgamez (40751) | about 13 years ago | (#2359272)

and if you don't throw your case across the room, you will not have that problem...

I think too many people are taking that test too seriously...so what if it fries it...then put the dang thing on right in the first place!

Re:(Athlon-Heatsink) = Toast (1)

SexPig (464304) | about 13 years ago | (#2359344)

The review specifically stated that the heatsink could not firmly attach to the motherboard due to space restrictions. In addition, I have had heatsinks dislodge from the CPU; I don't recall throwing the box but being a geeky-type guy I frequently go into my box, swap hardware, etc.

I didn't say the CPUs were faulty; I simply stated that *I'm* not buying them if there's a risk of the mobo going up in flames just because my dog may have knocked the case over.

Re:(Athlon-Heatsink) = Toast (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 13 years ago | (#2359434)

So throw away the dog

Re:(Athlon-Heatsink) = Toast (1)

Jburkholder (28127) | about 13 years ago | (#2359403)

>then put the dang thing on right in the first place!

For those that build their own machines, no doubt.

For those that buy...

Had a case just the other day of someone I work with losing their machine from this. Was a store-bought system (hey, not everyone builds their own) and the thing fried after being moved to a new house. When she plugged it in and started it up at the new place, it halted during bootup and refused to even get past the bios post. Now it shows no signs of life at all.

Guess what - AMD with the heatsink fallen off.

The thing is out of warranty and she is screwed.

Re:(Athlon-Heatsink) = Toast (2)

Sleepy (4551) | about 13 years ago | (#2359299)

>In the review (posted on /.) it demonstrated heatsinks being removed from the CPU while in operation. Both the PIII & PIV survived but the Athlons fried up with one taking the motherboard with it.

Yes, but that's a *catastrophic* failure. Heatsinks are not moving parts and generally don't fail.

Now, Fans DO fail, but then in that case the temperature increase is much more gradual and the chipset or software can power off the box in time.
Even in a 1U box, you have good directional airflow so I would expect it not to fry.

Re:(Athlon-Heatsink) = Toast (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 13 years ago | (#2359379)

Can you guarantee that the heat sink won't fall off? Is the method of securing the heat sink stable or is it a piece of metal secured by bending the metal over two tabs? Do you crack open the case and check everything EVERY time the computer is moved?

Re:(Athlon-Heatsink) = Toast (1)

doppleganger871 (303020) | about 13 years ago | (#2359423)

No, I don't check it every time I move the computer, because I don't drop the thing. It takes a bit of prying to get the damn clip off, i'm sure it's not gonna change its mind.

Plus, I can hear the heatsink go THUNK if it hits something inside because it's no longer attached.

Re:(Athlon-Heatsink) = Toast (3, Funny)

doppleganger871 (303020) | about 13 years ago | (#2359402)

Heatsink Installation 101:

1. Clip heatsink/fan unit onto socket.
2. Look to make sure it's on properly.
3. Power up, check fan, put case back together.
4. Do not drop, kick, throw, or abuse the computer.
5. Molecular reconstrucion of the spring-clip is not recommended. This may cause it to fall off.

(Ah, nevermind, i'm going too far here.)

Dude, i have never had any heatsink fall off my CPU. If I did, then I deserve to buy another CPU. Sheesh at $110 or so, a 1.4GHz Athlon is disposable.

This board is not approved by AMD! (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 13 years ago | (#2359169)

There are quite a few problems with this board, two of the least being that the voltage regulators cant support higher clock speeds, and the system becomes unstable when the DIMM load becomes too heavy. Also, I cant believe Tyan is saying you can use unregistered DIMMs if there are only two in the system.

Re:This board is not approved by AMD! (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | about 13 years ago | (#2359392)

Yea, and I heard you're a dumbass.

Any references to your post, or do you just like to spout drivel?

I hate you.

Mounting Heatsinks (5, Informative)

doorbot.com (184378) | about 13 years ago | (#2359190)

Note that the Tiger MP has problems with larger heatsinks due to the layout of the PCB. Check the Anandtech article for more info.

One other problem that the Anandtech article didn't mention is that the board does not have the four mounting holes around the processor sockets (like the P4s all have, and many AMD have). So forget about the latest Swiftech and Alpha heatsinks which require those holes.

Perhaps Tyan decided to omit the holes because there wasn't room anyways... the heatsinks that mount via screws tend to be bigger and may not have fit properly anyways. At the same time, I do like the mounting holes as I feel a lot safer when my heatsink is screwed onto the motherboard -- I don't want it popping off and allowing my processor to burn itself up.

Re:Mounting Heatsinks (4, Informative)

Jeffrey Baker (6191) | about 13 years ago | (#2359399)

I dislike the "bigger + louder is better" notion in the do-it-yourself computer hardware community. I think this idea has been planted by the same people who drive Camaros and Mustangs :) Seriously, there is NO reason to get a huge brick of a heatsink for these new Athlons. What is needed is a heatsink and fan combination designed by actual engineers from an actual engineering company, like, for example, Hewlett Packard. Look, here's one:

Agilent ArctiCooler HACA-0002 [agilent.com]

The Agilent cooler is small so it presents no mounting problems. It is very light, so it won't shear the socket off your mainboard. It is quiet, so it won't drive your wife/husband/parents/kids/dog/cat/neighbors berserk. Best of all, it cools the 1.4 GHz Athlon better than any other cooler around, including those enormous bricks with 8500 RPM fans.

$45 for a fan? (2)

laetus (45131) | about 13 years ago | (#2359488)

It better be nice. And cool my beer too.


Agilent Articooler Price [centralcomputer.com]

Inform me. (1)

Kingpin (40003) | about 13 years ago | (#2359245)


Why is it that AMD produces explicit MP CPUs [amd.com] , and I read about MP boards that can use standard CPUs?

Re:Inform me. (4, Informative)

greenfly (40953) | about 13 years ago | (#2359306)

The Palomino chipset has some MP optimizations, and is officially supported by AMD for MP use. The older processors will work, but don't perform as well in the benchmarks I've seen. The Anandtech review states that they were able to use the old Athlon chipset in this board too. I'm thinking that when they built their old chip they allowed SMP, but they didn't optimize for it (or perhaps there were other issues with the chip that we don't know about) and so they released a new chipset once the MP boards were ready that was optimized for it.

So, yeah, you can use the old Athlons in your Tyan 2460, but if you really want the performance, you'll want to go with their Palomino core. As a added benefit, the Palomino is supposed to run cooler too.

Could you imagine... (-1, Troll)

Uttles (324447) | about 13 years ago | (#2359265)

... a beowolf cluster of these?

Tyan's Thunder K7 wasn't exactly overpriced.... (5, Insightful)

Xibby (232218) | about 13 years ago | (#2359269)

NOt only did you get the dual athlons, you got dual 3com NICs, Adaptec 7899W dual channel Ultra160 SCSI controller (dual channel!), onboard ATI RageXL graphics. Add all that up as seperate components, and the board doesn't look that expensive. Espically when you have all that hardware and still have 5 ? 64-bit/33MHz PCI slots (backwards compatible with 32-bit/33MHz PCI devices).

Overall, the board is competitive to server board offerings from Intel. I haven't been overly impressed with the onboard 3com nics however. Installing linux can be a chore as they don't always work except on the latest 2.2 kernels. The drivers included in Windows 2000 for these cards have a few bugs in them as well. In both cases it's fixable by driver/kernel updates, but could present an issue during installation.

And the problems I've had with the onboard 3com's have been on Dell motherboards anyway. :)

Re:Tyan's Thunder K7 wasn't exactly overpriced.... (1)

doppleganger871 (303020) | about 13 years ago | (#2359362)

We've had pretty good luck with the 3com nic's in the latitude's at work. What we were having issues with was the Xircom dual 10/100 & Modem combo pcmcia cards. Some have to be installed upside down to work (poor qc on the system boards?).

Shrug.

I'll continue to have no problems with my 1.4GHz Athlon at home.

Re:Tyan's Thunder K7 wasn't exactly overpriced.... (3, Interesting)

Arker (91948) | about 13 years ago | (#2359363)

Onboard stuff is... well... onboard. Come on. I mean, ok, maybe the NICs work fine, but honestly, I only needed one. Maybe the SCSI controller is great (hope it comes with provisions for external connect though) - but I already have a perfectly good SCSI card sitting here ready to pop in, so whatever the added cost of the onboard setup, it's too much. And onboard video always sucks, unless it's exactly what you need and that never changes. In this case it's not. I've never had a good experience trying to add a vidcard to a board with one built in - and again the added cost, low though it may be, is worse than 100% waste - not only paying for something not needed, but for something that will probably wind up causing problems.

Re:Tyan's Thunder K7 wasn't exactly overpriced.... (1)

Xibby (232218) | about 13 years ago | (#2359466)

You're obviously not the target for the Thunder board then are you? These boards are very competitive with Intel's server board offerings.

Re:Tyan's Thunder K7 wasn't exactly overpriced.... (1)

MrWood (179426) | about 13 years ago | (#2359367)

Xibby said:
> I haven't been overly impressed with the onboard 3com nics however. Installing linux can be a chore as they don't always work except on the latest 2.2 kernels.

I don't mean this as a flame. I'm genuinely curious, what are your reasons for not wanting to use the 2.2.x kernels?

Re:Tyan's Thunder K7 wasn't exactly overpriced.... (1)

Xibby (232218) | about 13 years ago | (#2359451)

No, I want to use the 2.2.x kernels, 2.2.19 exactly. The problem is that Debian's installer for Potato is a 2.2.17pre7 (or something like that....), and I didn't have good luck getting the onboard controller to work durring the install.

Also, at the time I was doing this perticular install, 2.2.17 was the very latest kernel. The only way the onboard controller would work was with the latest netdrivers package from Scyld [scyld.com]

This has all been rectified now with newer kernels, but if your installer uses an older kernel you're looking at updating the installer or finding a different NIC for the install. (Unless you're using a CD or Modem for install, I do network installs, so I need a working NIC during install.)

Other than that, I haven't had too much trouble with them other than the Windows 2000 bug and having them not respond to WOL (Wake On Lan) requests, even though WOL was enabled.

Re:Tyan's Thunder K7 wasn't exactly overpriced.... (1)

m_chan (95943) | about 13 years ago | (#2359397)

Not really expensive, but there is one gotcha in that the Thunder uses a proprietary power suply connector; there are, as far as I have read, only three suppliers with the appropriate connector available on the market.

The Tiger uses a standard ATX power supply.

Where to buy / fan noise (2, Informative)

Danny Rathjens (8471) | about 13 years ago | (#2359291)


monarchcomputer [monarchcomputer.com]

These guys test out the board/cpu/ram for you. I haven't had any problems with mine which I have had for almost a month.

My only problem is noise. I got the ThermalTake Volcano II because it was listed as the lowest decibals.
But both those fans running are still horrendously loud.

Time to swap out the ole bp6 (1)

Lord Kestrel (91395) | about 13 years ago | (#2359368)

It looks like I've finally found a board that's worthy enough to replace the bp6 I've been using forever.

The bp6 let me use low cost celerons in an smp config, and now I can use durons the same way.

Boy! (1, Offtopic)

daeley (126313) | about 13 years ago | (#2359422)

Imagine a StarCat Cluster of these! :)

damn, still no 66 pci (1)

AssFace (118098) | about 13 years ago | (#2359453)

it still has the 33 like its big brother.

son of a...

something I never expected (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 13 years ago | (#2359465)

Product-placement on Slashdot! ;-)

Safety of AMD CPUs? (1)

bball99 (232214) | about 13 years ago | (#2359489)

i use a tyan 230 w/dual PIII CPUs... what i like is the *lack* of features, and only want to deal w/RAM, storage, CD-ROM, and video

i went with the Intel CPUs because i read about the tests of the AMDs regarding cooling fan failure and how the CPUs don't have thermal protection (dead CPU, kill the mobo, and fire hazard)...

has anyone ever experienced this in a home-built box w/AMD CPUs?

mod me down (-1)

teknopurge (199509) | about 13 years ago | (#2359512)

it is i, the troll!

Fan Recommendation? Crusoes an Interesting Alt. (4, Interesting)

idonotexist (450877) | about 13 years ago | (#2359513)

Considering the heat Athlon puts out, what fan is recommended? It would be nice to have something quiet, but I guess that would contradict the desire to have a cool fan.

On a related note, I recently read of servers equiped with Transmeta Crusoes having no fans. While I am sure the performance of the Crusoe is not as great as Athlons, it is a trade-off to consider imo. Here is a bit from a recent press release of the Crusoes:
NEC CS56 NetBrain server has won a Nikkei Byte Best of World PC Expo 2001 Editors' Choice award. The small office/home office server, with a 600MHz Crusoe microprocessor, consumes less than 20 watts of power at full operating speed and
does not require a cooling fan as a result of the microprocessor's unique, power-efficient design. If an interruption occurs in the main power supply, a built-in auxiliary battery supply kicks in and the server will continue to operate before shutting down in a safe manner. The NEC server runs Linux 6.5 Secure Server edition, comes with a built-in UPS and optional RAID, and can fit into a 19-inch wide rack in two- and three-unit wide configurations. It includes 192MB SO-DIMM memory, an ATI-mobility graphics chipset, 40GB (x2 for RAID) hard drives, optional CD-ROM, one serial, two USB, one parallel, two PCI, two PS/2, one VGA and dual RJ-45 ports. Internally, there are up to two PCI sockets and room for compact flash storage.
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