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Aqua Mozilla OK with Apple

michael posted more than 13 years ago | from the but-still-ugly dept.

Apple 314

MikeMo writes: "Turns out Apple thinks an Aqua Mozilla is OK, after all. Eric Yang had a chat with them and they made up." This is an update to this story.

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I'm okay, you're okay! (-1)

The_Messenger (110966) | more than 13 years ago | (#2366264)

But Mozilla is fucking gay!

Re:I'm okay, you're okay! (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 13 years ago | (#2366397)

cool new backend
same fucked company

Stink Geek

Re:I'm okay, you're okay! (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 13 years ago | (#2366403)

Ahoy, ye mates! I'm a butt pirate!

-- CmdrTaco

the mods are gay (-1)

Anonymous Pancake (458864) | more than 13 years ago | (#2366269)

I can't believe this.. the mods here are so gay.. whenever I make a new account so I don't post as -1 all the time and get ignored.. I get modded down more than 5 times withing a day. And I post intelligent, and witty posts. The mods here are so fucking gay.. I think you need to use more lube when you get done up the ass so you will be in better moods.. You love to do each other up the ass. Screaming out 'OH LINUX!' 'OH FREEBSD!' because non-MS os's turn you on. Then after climax you smear your own feces over each other, then compile the linux kernal by typing the commands with your still erect Penii (or is it penises). What a bunch of flamming tards. And slashdot and BSD are dying. So eat that huge stinking pile of shit. Mod this down to prove you are a big stinking pile of feces goatse.cx [goatse.cx] loving piece of elephant shit. Fucking Linux homos.

Re:the mods are gay (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 13 years ago | (#2366485)

Maybe if you stick to the topic and stop pretending to know anything about the moderator's sexual preferences based on their opinions of your comments, you'll be rated as signal instead of noise.

Now kiss (*) and make up (-1, Troll)

Chas (5144) | more than 13 years ago | (#2366273)

(*) Steve Job's behind.

Well. One more non-issue.

I'm just glad I dislike the Aqua interface and don't use Apple products to begin with.

Let me get this straight... (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 13 years ago | (#2366277)

The worst terrorist attacks in recorded history occurred just over 2 weeks ago, and you folks are discussing the fact that Apple thinks an Aqua Mozilla is OK, after all. My *god*, people, GET SOME PRIORITIES!!!!

Re:Let me get this straight... (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 13 years ago | (#2366299)

the buildings collapsed, get over it

Re:Let me get this straight... (0, Offtopic)

JMJ (15496) | more than 13 years ago | (#2366301)

So when are people allowed to discuss something else then? Will you forgive me if i get on with my life and don't think of the New York attack at least once a minute?

Strangely enough, many of the stories on Slashdot have nothing to do with the attack. Have you just noticed? Perhaps you should go and read CNN instead. I'm sure it'll be much more to your liking.

Re:Let me get this straight... (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 13 years ago | (#2366342)

dude, there's plenty of news on the terrorist attacks. read it if that's what you want to read.

news for turds (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 13 years ago | (#2366282)

shit that splatters.

thank you

man (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 13 years ago | (#2366283)

man feces? or MONKEY feces?

Re:man (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 13 years ago | (#2366330)

blody was to on topic i tell ya
who ca think sppple without thinkign money kfeces??

--wipo troll

Hmmm. (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 13 years ago | (#2366284)

This evening, I went to visit /., and found myself on the front page of /.

Man, I hate when that happens!

Is this an overreaction or not? (4, Insightful)

aussersterne (212916) | more than 13 years ago | (#2366285)

I'm not familiar enough with the "real" Aqua products to understand what just went down here.

It sounds to me like Apple did say it was okay to make an Aqua-like Mozilla -- but only using the "real" Apple tools, and therefore (purely my extrapolation) for Mac OS X users only. Aqua look-and-feel through "emulation" is still strictly forbidden.

Yes?

If this is the case, then the Slashdot was not overreacting at all -- it's still a "legitimate Aqua" sues "homebrew Aqua look" issue in which all non-MacOS users are forbidden from using nice shiny sea-blue widgets, etc.

Or am I misunderstanding?

I guesse it's time to... (-1)

Anonymous Pancake (458864) | more than 13 years ago | (#2366305)

kill all the niggers

Re:I guesse it's time to... (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 13 years ago | (#2366338)

Haha, fag.

What is OS X? (5, Informative)

2nd Post! (213333) | more than 13 years ago | (#2366525)

If you want your shiny blue widgets... you can have XP.

I'm a little more scared of Microsoft, .NET, Hailstorm, Windows Media Player, DirectX, and the XBox, all under the same roof...

What evils lurk in the Microsoft Future?

Aqua is *the* OS X experience. It's more than just widgets; more than just a semitranslucent title bar, or glassy buttons, and drop shadows.

It's about an uncluttered 'Start bar' (called the Dock). Each App gets a single entry in the Dock, with access to the multiple open windows available through a single 'Window' menu; or if you right click on the app in the Dock, you get a list of the available windows.

It's about a the Apple Menu and a single menu, instead of a menu per Window. This has carried over from the previous OS 9; the foreground App, with User focus, controls the single available menu bar. There doesn't exist a menu for each window (which not only takes up screen real estate, it provides for too many available targets when all you use is a single target) but only a single global menu bar.

It's about minimizing screen clutter and noise. Instead of borders around each window you get a drop shadow; you delineate forground from background apps because the foreground App casts a shadow behind it. The background apps also have transparent title bars. You don't get every open Window listed in the Dock-the OS X Start bar. You don't get a menu bar attached to every window. You don't get a empty grey parent window containing all the child windows of Word or Photoshop.

It's not perfect, certainly, and it is, after all, the vision of a single person, a single company, quite unlike Linux and the Open Source/Free Software community.

There are little things, but mostly it's coherent. Most of the OS widgets are grayed out and monochromatic except when they are in focus or require attention; good visual cues. If you mistype your password when logging in, the login window shakes itself to both clear itself and to let you know you've failed to log in.

It's really, really, nice. Too bad most people are too cheap, or cannot otherwise afford, to play with Macs.

What everyone is thinking... (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 13 years ago | (#2366287)

Who the FUCK CARES?!? Jesus, everyone knows Apple sucks shit.

They want to see Mozilla running on OS X (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 13 years ago | (#2366292)

That's why they don't care about an Aqua theme for Mozilla

Re:They want to see Mozilla running on OS X (5, Informative)

asa (33102) | more than 13 years ago | (#2366381)

They want to see Mozilla running on OS X. That's why they don't care about an Aqua theme for Mozilla.

Mozilla runs well on OS X. It's called Fizzilla and you can get nightly and Milestone testing binaries with the rest of the Mozilla builds at http://ftp.mozilla.org/pub/mozilla/ [mozilla.org]

--Asa

Re:They want to see Mozilla running on OS X (3, Informative)

owenc (255848) | more than 13 years ago | (#2366504)

I think what he means is a cocoa native web browser using Gecko. Right now Mozilla for OS X is basically the OS 9 app with Aqua Support tacked on

How about ShitZilla? (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 13 years ago | (#2366516)

Honestly, I dumped Netscape Communicator because it kept crashing in the eMail composer and the Usenet News client. I now use Spruce for composing eMail. Find it at freshmeat.net

So what exactly does Apple want? (5, Insightful)

st. augustine (14437) | more than 13 years ago | (#2366300)

From the article: "What Apple objected to was not Aquafying Mozilla, but rather the way I was doing it via emulation, thus not giving Mozilla users a pure Aqua experience. Apple is willing to provide information for creating real Aqua experience for Mozilla."

Does Apple mean they insist that Mozilla use native OS X widgets if it wants to look like an Aqua application? From my (admittedly limited) understanding of the Mozilla architecture, this is impossible. Mozilla's appearance is all defined at run-time, and everything including its own buttons, menus, scroll bars, is a Mozilla custom component, not part of the OS standard UI toolkit.

Am I wrong? Please correct me. But it seems like the only thing you could do would be to write your own browser using native widgets, and embed the Gecko rendering engine, ala Galeon. Mozilla's not going to give you a "pure Aqua experience" unless you rewrite it from scratch.

Re:So what exactly does Apple want? (0, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 13 years ago | (#2366319)

Mozilla's not going to give you a "pure Aqua experience" unless you rewrite it from scratch.

Please! Don't even suggest such a thing!! It's been rewritten and bloated so many times I don't think it'd make it through another rewrite!!

Re:So what exactly does Apple want? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 13 years ago | (#2366322)

That sounds about right. Time for the Maceon or osXeon or Aqueon web browser.

Re:So what exactly does Apple want? (3, Interesting)

Skuggan (88681) | more than 13 years ago | (#2366351)

"Mozilla's appearance is all defined at run-time, and everything including its own buttons, menus, scroll bars, is a Mozilla custom component, not part of the OS standard UI toolkit."

This was the worst design decision(?spelling?) with Mozilla. Big, bloated GUI, slowing down the good, fast rendering engine. Who wanted this? Had someone had an overdoze of Winamp skins?

Re:So what exactly does Apple want? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 13 years ago | (#2366385)

> This was the worst design decision(?spelling?) with Mozilla. Big, bloated GUI, slowing down the good, fast rendering engine. Who wanted this? Had someone had an overdoze of Winamp skins?

Not sure. I run mozilla on Mac OS X, Windows2000 and freebsd. People run it on BeOS. Others on Mac OS 9.

If it was a native app, it would probably not be avalaible on every platform.

(Okay, it is big bloated, slow, buggy. But it works, and each release sucks less)

Cheers,

--fred

Re:So what exactly does Apple want? (4, Informative)

slamb (119285) | more than 13 years ago | (#2366421)

This was the worst design decision(?spelling?) with Mozilla. Big, bloated GUI, slowing down the good, fast rendering engine.

I also think this was a terrible decision, but not for the same reason. There is a reason that damn near every program on any given GUI (with the notable exception of X11) looks about the same, and it's not because programmers are unimaginative.

It's because users are happier when the interface adheres to consistent guidelines. Each platform has its own set of guidelines. A few examples:

How many times have you been annoyed when you hit the wheel mouse and it didn't work right? That's almost always because of some moronic programmer who decided it would be better to write his/her own widgets. Wheel mice are one of the places this becomes most obvious, because they didn't exist when a lot of these programs were designed. The GUI vendor added support to the native widgets, but the stupid replacement ones in a lot of cases don't have support. Or when they do, it doesn't work quite the same. (I.e., seperate preferences for the number of lines to scroll.)

Mozilla is one of the worst offenders here, completely scrapping the idea of an interface consistent with anything else.

(Java is a bit of an exception. It doesn't have a system of its own, so arguably it also violates the other interface guidelines. However, it makes sense to have a single interface for Java, since applications are intended to be very cross-platform. Plus, Java has actually taken on the challenge of designing a good GUI of their own...observe the fact that there is a book out on the Java look and feel. I'm not aware of a similar one for Mozilla.)

Re:So what exactly does Apple want? (2)

BZ (40346) | more than 13 years ago | (#2366441)

Seeing as Mozilla is supposed to be an application platform, the same argument could be made. And such a book on Mozilla is coming from O'Reilley (can't recall the title at the moment).

Re:So what exactly does Apple want? (2, Insightful)

slamb (119285) | more than 13 years ago | (#2366503)

Seeing as Mozilla is supposed to be an application platform, the same argument could be made.

True, but I don't believe Mozilla will ever have even a fraction of the support Java does. Java is a very well-thought-out lanaguage with some interesting concepts (the first widespread VM and really widespread GC), a really good API, a huge install base, and lots of resources on it available. As much as apples and oranges can be compared (a programming language vs. a web browser, although they both are more than that), Java comes out far ahead.

And such a book on Mozilla is coming from O'Reilley (can't recall the title at the moment).

Interesting. News to me.

Re:So what exactly does Apple want? (2)

jesser (77961) | more than 13 years ago | (#2366520)

Did the decision to make Mozilla an "application platform" come before or after the decisions to abstract the user interface and have Mozilla draw its own widgets?

Re:So what exactly does Apple want? (4, Insightful)

BZ (40346) | more than 13 years ago | (#2366449)

> Who wanted this?

Mozilla needed a custom widget set to comply with CSS as well. It seemed natural to use it for the interface too, eliminating porting headaches.

Re:So what exactly does Apple want? (2, Insightful)

inburito (89603) | more than 13 years ago | (#2366377)

It uses it's own widget library, right? And they were already somehow emulating aqua-look?

Why not just replace the emulation with native calls. I mean how about..
#ifdef __MACOSX_WITH_AQUA__
..code..
#else
..code..
#endif
..in the widget library. Of course those smart mozilla developers can probably come up with something more elegant but certainly something like this shouldn't be more than minor obstacle..

And they do have a point about pure Aqua experience which is more than just pretty looks. It would certainly be confusing to have an application that looks like it conforms to the normal aqua guidelines and behaviour but then acts differently.

Also, it would be quite a burden for mozilla developers to emulate everything instead of just letting the system ui-library take care of all the nasty details.

This would just make mozilla even better on macintosh and if for some reason there isn't enough interest in making a native aqua implementation you can always use the boring standard look..

So where's the problem. Apple is just protecting their brand. Just like you can't call any old cola a coca cola..

Re:So what exactly does Apple want? (1)

stevek (25276) | more than 13 years ago | (#2366402)

I don't think that would be feasable with the current product. There are lots of things that rely on the scriptable nature of the UI. Even if it were possible, there are thousands of more important things to be working on as opposed to something so completely destabilizing, and totally unnecessry.

If someone really wanted to make an Aqua UI for mozilla that Apple couldn't complain about, they might be able to make a skin which dynamically (perhaps at startup, or something) generated the Aqua UI element images, made them into bitmaps, and used those for the skin.

That way, there would be no copyright violation, as the copyrighted Aqua UI elements would never be copied.

Wouldn't improve the experience any, but it would make such a thing possible.
Someone could also make a browser which embedded gecko, with an Aqua UI, (like galeon, etc), which might actually be a good idea for a lightweight browser.

Re:So what exactly does Apple want? (2)

inburito (89603) | more than 13 years ago | (#2366466)

So there is no way to write a wrapper for a native aqua ui that would have the same interface as the original ui-code?

I'll admit that I have no idea of the design of mozilla and don't really care how it looks on mac but just for the sake of an argument from a software design point of view..

Oh.. I do agree that having a stable base and functionality is a lot more important than silly eye-candy..

Re:So what exactly does Apple want? (1)

Jah-Wren Ryel (80510) | more than 13 years ago | (#2366501)

Just like you can't call any old cola a coca cola...


But if you are in the South you can call any old soda a Coke!

Re:So what exactly does Apple want? (1)

manic micko (247784) | more than 13 years ago | (#2366401)

Apple wants them to create a new NATIVE PORT of mozilla for use with Aqua/Cocoa, similar to how Galeon and K-Meleon do it for other platforms.

This way Apple can keep their stance on having Aqua on only an Apple platform while "appeasing" the public. Personally I'd like to have the theme on a windows/linux box but ah well...

In reality Apple has changed nothing of their stance at all. They are just stating the obvious: make a native OS X browser with Gecko and it can have the Aqua look and feel.

--Micko

Speaking of K-meleon (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 13 years ago | (#2366423)

They just released version 0.5 and it is just great. Solid browser, fast and easy on memory. Cool features in security prefs to turn off pop-ups without turning javascript off.

Re:Speaking of K-meleon (2)

daviddennis (10926) | more than 13 years ago | (#2366505)

I believe that was invented by the Omni folks for OmniWeb, which was developed especially for MacOS X and is, therefore, entirely Aqua compliant :-).

I just wish its JavaScript worked well; I have to use IE (for MacOS X) to see JavaScript-crazy sites, of which there are all too many in the world :-(.

D

Re:So what exactly does Apple want? (1)

Daa (9883) | more than 13 years ago | (#2366498)

Except those are _not_ ports of mozilla, they are native browsers build ontop of the gecko rendering engine. gecko is the basic html renderer under mozilla, it doesn't do javascript, plugins, mail/news, prefs, or any of the rest of the stuff that makes a browser

dave

Re:So what exactly does Apple want? (5, Informative)

bwilson (27514) | more than 13 years ago | (#2366489)

The decision to make the interface custom was a result of the incredible mess that became of the previous cross-platform version. It is also necessary to provide custom controls to comply with CSS, which allows web pages to define button and scrollbar colors, for example.

IE defines its own controls for this reason (no kidding!), they just look like the Windows ones by default. Microsoft Word (and possibly the rest of Office) have all custom controls that look like the Windows ones. Sometimes the look is slightly off and if you look at the window hierarchy in Spy++ you'll notice that the buttons are not actually Windows, which is what you'd get with native widgets. So people shouldn't single out Mozilla for their criticism of its custom controls.

I used Mozilla on a Mac a while ago and I swear (much to my surprise) that it was using native widgets. Of course, it uses native menus, but the buttons and scrollbars seemed to be native as well, I played with the system configuration and the changes (like for scroll bar button configuration) seemed to be reflected in Mozilla. If this is the case, it should be easy to use native Aqua controls. Can somebody with a Mac confirm this?

Re:So what exactly does Apple want? (1)

JamieF (16832) | more than 13 years ago | (#2366491)

Another possible interpretation is that Apple is OK with a non-native Aqua implementation as long as its look and feel are *exactly* like the native implementation, thereby providing a 100% consistent experience. Just a thought. I don't think Apple cares as much about APIs as they do about user experience, so it seems they would be more concerned about a half-assed Aqua clone annoying users than they would about a perfect Aqua clone that didn't happen to make the right API calls under the covers. So the info they would be giving would be the spec for how Aqua behaves, not the API docs which are already available.

This is good... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 13 years ago | (#2366309)

Because I was about to start boycotting Apple products too. I think companies don't realize that consumers these days really DO have an opinion on the things they buy, and if the business participates in disagreeable business practices, lots they will indeed lose customers. Responsible consumerism is getting popular, and it's nice to see a company like apple that isn't so arrogant that they won't change their minds abot something so trivial.

Re:This is good... (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 13 years ago | (#2366332)

Too bad BeelzeJobs doesn't give a rat's ass about Apple consumers. He knows that no matter what Apple does, Macolytes will praise it. So now Aqua, in a few years for OSXI he will require all Mac users to upgrade to a 3D VR interface, for a mere $7,500.00 ("That's IT?!?! Only $7,500??!?!?!!" screams brainwashed Macolytes).

Boycotting Apple? (2, Troll)

2nd Post! (213333) | more than 13 years ago | (#2366478)

Man, is there even enough consumer support for people *to* boycott apple?

I mean, I own a Mac, but I was wondering how many other people do...

/.ed, it seems (4, Insightful)

wrong (27761) | more than 13 years ago | (#2366313)

Slashcode really needs to automirror anything mentioned in a story that isn't set to expire...

Re:/.ed, it seems (5, Informative)

jeffehobbs (419930) | more than 13 years ago | (#2366392)

from the site, good news up top:

01/09/28/12:41

This morning, I finally talked to Apple on the phone. I admit that I over reacted to the whole situation. There was a forwarded email from my employer from Apple, which I misinterpreted. What Apple objected to was not Aquafying Mozilla, but rather the way I was doing it via emulation, thus not giving Mozilla users a pure Aqua experience. Apple is willing to provide information for creating real Aqua experience for Mozilla. Right now, my efforts are focused on an Aqua interface for Tenon's iTools, so work on Mozilla for the moment is in abeyance. I apologize to anyone that I have offended.

regards,
Eric

01/09/27/22:11

This evening, I went to visit /., and found myself on the front page of /.. There were mix feelings about my Aqua projects. I only wanted a browser that works well under Mac OS X, and looks like Aqua. Too bad, I am unable to share that joy anymore. I did not expect to get paid for fixing cocoa, but I felt bad that I helped Apple to write a interface library. Then I was denied to use this interface unless I used their library. In essence, why should I bother to help them with the interface when I am denied to use the interface. I just begin to enjoy working with Apple software, but Apple isn't making it easy for their developers. Anyways, I only hope that Apple would write cocoa UI for Mozilla, then I will not need this project. (OmniWeb is not good enough, yet)

01/09/27/11:34

You might notice that Aqua Mozilla was not updated recently, and the main reason was that Apple contacted my employer in attempt to shut down this project. After a few talk, I am forced to take down this project. Now I think of it, I went to Apple to test cocoa for Mac OS X 10.1, and found a drag and drop problem with NSPopUpButtonCell. They didn't even pay me for my effort, yet they try to shut down my project. Isn't that ironic? For you Mac OS X fans out there, if you want to use a good Mac OS X browser. You can only use IE or OmniWeb now. It sucks for us, but life goes on.

Next steps for Slashdot readers (0, Redundant)

macsox (236590) | more than 13 years ago | (#2366326)

OK, now that we have this update, there are two courses of action, beloved Slashdot posters:

- Complain that Apple isn't open-sourcing the OS, so they suck anyway.

- Suggest that Apple sucks because you can't run OS X on non-Apple machines.

Have at it!

Re:Next steps for Slashdot readers (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 13 years ago | (#2366355)

Actually, Darwin is distributed under the BSD license. But thanks for playing, loser.

Re:Next steps for Slashdot readers (-1, Redundant)

sulli (195030) | more than 13 years ago | (#2366358)

Don't forget: - Bitch that Apple sucks because they only use a one button mouse - Squawk that Apple sucks because OS X has those annoying "Dock" icons and transparent windows and weird red, yellow, and green buttons and anyway the interface was better in system 6 - Grouse that Apple sucks because they just fucking suck Have I missed any?

Re:Next steps for Slashdot readers (0, Offtopic)

jglow (525234) | more than 13 years ago | (#2366366)

but the keyboard mouse connection makes up for the single button :)

Re:Next steps for Slashdot readers (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 13 years ago | (#2366440)

They won't let you buy bare PowerPC motherboards on pricewatch.
They promised "copeland" for my PMac 6100, and never delivered.
They charge $20 for shipping & handling for a CD.
They no longer ship OpenStep for Solaris.
I can't boot directly into NetBSD on my SE/30.
They abandoned OpenDoc.
My system didn't boot once because of a corrupted font.
I'm still pissed about the IIvi price cut.

Think that about covers it :)

Re:Next steps for Slashdot readers (Ignore prev) (0, Redundant)

sulli (195030) | more than 13 years ago | (#2366368)

Don't forget: - Bitch that Apple sucks because they only use a one button mouse - Squawk that Apple sucks because OS X has those annoying "Dock" icons and transparent windows and weird red, yellow, and green buttons and anyway the interface was better in system 6 - Mutter that Apple sucks because you lost a lot of money on their stock - Grouse that Apple sucks because they just fucking suck Have I missed any?

I'm surprised (-1, Flamebait)

NotSurprised (525043) | more than 13 years ago | (#2366334)

'cause Apple usually sucks faggot dick.

Corporate pigs (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 13 years ago | (#2366336)

It's sad that the little Mozilla piglets feel the need to suck on the teat of Apple. Aren't there any original ideas to come out of the Open Source camp?

No. (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 13 years ago | (#2366348)

Nope.

Pass this on... (-1, Offtopic)

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Re:Pass this on... (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 13 years ago | (#2366390)

Warning!!!

My cock is emitting high levels of jizz into your ass right now.

Slightly off-topic, but... (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 13 years ago | (#2366350)

I finally downloaded and watched Enterprise last night, looking to be a great new series.

I was just wondering if Linda Park (Ensign Sato, the linguist) had done any nude photoshoots or soft pr0n videos prior to Enterprise? If not, when can I expect her to?

Thanks for your cooperation. Please do not mod this post down. ;-(

great new series?! wtf are you smoking?! (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 13 years ago | (#2366359)

it's worse than the worst episode of voyager!!!

Re:great new series?! wtf are you smoking?! (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 13 years ago | (#2366365)

You shut da FUCK up, you lantini motherfacker!

lantini? (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 13 years ago | (#2366375)

wtf that sounds like minbari... get the fuck out of here, you minbari scum!! homeguard4ever!

Re:lantini? (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 13 years ago | (#2366399)

You can not give my people business like this!
Shut da FACK up, motherfacker! ... Shut da FACK up!

Re:lantini? (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 13 years ago | (#2366404)

what do you want?

Ok I take everything back.. (-1, Offtopic)

ainsoph (2216) | more than 13 years ago | (#2366364)

But speaking of this kind of stuff, I was just over at O'Reilly, browsing around trying to jump start my memory of perl (I have been away for a year) and I noticed that they use .asp on their servers. Is that kind of odd since they are making a bundle off of all sorts of free software and act as a (great) resource and promotion for all things open source. I wonder why not .php?

Re:Ok I take everything back.. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 13 years ago | (#2366446)

That's a good question. They do publish a few php books (er, more accurately they print the help files and faq and sell them), but I think they also publish some asp books.

I talked with their IS people about this once, and they use Windows NT/IIS since it's more secure than linux/apache, is faster, works under high loads, and doesn't go down like a cum-guzzling queen.

PHP is available for IIS, though. I think they're using ASP since PHP can't interface with MSQL databases, but I'm not sure.

Might make Aqua better... (1, Flamebait)

jeffy124 (453342) | more than 13 years ago | (#2366367)

As it is now on the OS X system, Aqua is very limited in preferences like color schemes and such when compared to other GUI systems like Windows or KDE. By having it elsewhere, it opens the door for more customization. If others like that ability, it may encourage Apple to add such features to Aqua.

At least I hope so. The link above appears slashdotted and I cant see it (yet). I hope Apple left the door open for those kind of customizations.

Re:Might make Aqua better... (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 13 years ago | (#2366394)

That's the point. Apple wants a consistent look and feel with their products. It's all part of the Apple experience.

Re:Might make Aqua better... (1)

tomdarch (225937) | more than 13 years ago | (#2366411)

I think that there are issues about the interface that a lot of people dont' get. From Apple's point of view, they have done a lot of work to design a really good UI and they simply don't want you screwing around with it. There are many things to not like about that approach, but that's how they see it.


The designers at BMW do not really want you painting their cars in hippie rainbow colors, adding neon underneath and gluing crap to the hood. They design beautiful cars (in their opinion) and having non-designers tacking crap onto the cars probably irritates them. Apple sees it the same way - they carefully designed the UI and they don't want you changing the colors to who-knows-what.


You can't begin to know the pain of being a designer who has to put their design in the hands of 'the public' only to have them screw it up, rather than worship your genius!

Re:Might make Aqua better... (5, Insightful)

Arandir (19206) | more than 13 years ago | (#2366461)

The designers at BMW do not really want you painting their cars in hippie rainbow colors, adding neon underneath and gluing crap to the hood.

But the designers at BMW aren't going to sue me if I paint the Virgin Mary on the hood!

Re:Might make Aqua better... (1)

instantkarma1 (234104) | more than 13 years ago | (#2366502)

Yes, Aqua is currently limited in color schemes; however, once Aqua becomes more robust (and it will), applications which are built using the proper tools will automatically take advantages of the new options when they are added. This maintains a consist look and feel as well. Needless to say, the current KDE/Gnome environment is a hodge-podge at best.

Aqua (0, Offtopic)

ZaneMcAuley (266747) | more than 13 years ago | (#2366378)

Didnt they make a track called "Barbie Girl"?

Re:Aqua (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 13 years ago | (#2366384)

Hi Barbie
Hi Ken
Do you wanna go for a ride?
Sure Ken
Jump in

I'm a barbie girl, in a barbie world
Life in plastic, it's fantastic
You can brush my hair, undress me everywhere
Imagination, life is your creation
Come on Barbie, let's go party

I'm a barbie girl, in a barbie world
Life in plastic, it's fantastic
You can brush my hair, undress me everywhere
Imagination, life is your creation

I'm a blond bimbo girl, in a fantasy world
Dress me up, make it tight, I'm your dolly
You're my doll, rock'n'roll, feel the glamour in pink
Kiss me here, touch me there, hanky panky
You can touch, you can play, if you say: "I'm always yours"

I'm a barbie girl, in a barbie world
Life in plastic, it's fantastic
You can brush my hair, undress me everywhere
Imagination, life is your creation

Come on Barbie, let's go party
Come on Barbie, let's go party
Come on Barbie, let's go party
Come on Barbie, let's go party

Make me walk, make me talk, do whatever you please
I can act like a star, I can beg on my knees
Come jump in, bimbo friend, let us do it again
Hit the town, fool around, let's go party
You can touch, you can play, if you say: "I'm always yours"
You can touch, you can play, if you say: "I'm always yours"

Come on Barbie, let's go party
Come on Barbie, let's go party
Come on Barbie, let's go party
Come on Barbie, let's go party

I'm a barbie girl, in a barbie world
Life in plastic, it's fantastic
You can brush my hair, undress me everywhere
Imagination, life is your creation

I'm a barbie girl, in a barbie world
Life in plastic, it's fantastic
You can brush my hair, undress me everywhere
Imagination, life is your creation

Come on Barbie, let's go party
Come on Barbie, let's go party
Come on Barbie, let's go party
Come on Barbie, let's go party

Oh, I'm having so much fun
Well Barbie, we're just getting started
Oh, I love you Ken

Re:Aqua (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 13 years ago | (#2366445)

The chick who sang that song is SO damn hot. Most of Aqua's songs have sex references that go way over the kiddies heads. Once at a concert in .no she had no underwear on and was wearing leather chaps. God she is sexy..

Cowboy Neil (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 13 years ago | (#2366383)

can be found here [stileproject.com] , according to Stile.

Is he right?

And Apple never "borrowed" from MS? (1, Offtopic)

Tide (8490) | more than 13 years ago | (#2366393)


But who says Apple never ripped off MS?
The custom toolbar in IE 5 [macnn.com] for Mac was taken and tweaked to be used in the custom finder for OS X! [apple.com]

I think little things like this go both ways.

Re:And Apple never "borrowed" from MS? (3, Insightful)

Darchmare (5387) | more than 13 years ago | (#2366431)

Ever consider that Microsoft had advance access to Aqua and decided to make IE5 'fit' that appearance ahead of time?

Re:And Apple never "borrowed" from MS? (1)

Tide (8490) | more than 13 years ago | (#2366524)


Finder customization didn't make it publically until Mac OS X Public beta (Sep 2000), it wasnt even in Mac OS X DP4 [holymac.com] which shipped in May of 2000. IE 5 for Mac shipped a few months prior to that and was even included as a carbon app on the developer disc.

Re:And Apple never "borrowed" from MS? (4, Insightful)

k_187 (61692) | more than 13 years ago | (#2366454)

yes well, I ripped this off from mackido.com (mmm, flamey goodness)

1981 - 1983 (Lisa and Mac Development teams)

* General User Interface
* Mouse
* Menus
* Controls
* Windows
* Desktop Metaphor
[1989 - Win31 first usable system but didn't get it working mediocre until Win95 - still not as consistent or good]

* Files -
* multi-forked filing system [WinNT 1993 - still not used]
* long file names (with spaces & special symbols) [Win95, not as versatile]
* automatic typed icons (type + creator) document centric filing mechanism [Win95, not nearly as complete or seamless]

* Design and Programming [Win3 - 1989, not as versatile]

1984

* Desk Accessories (copied in IBM-compatible world as "TSR")
* multitasking: Desk Accessories [Win3 - 1989, not as versatile]

* Sensible System folder organization [Win95 - not as clean, consistent or versatile]
* Dynamic, user-accessible system extension (fonts, INITs, control panels, DA's) [TBD]
* Drag-and-drop Application installation [TBD]
* fast and easy access to international characters [TBD]
* User-extensible font manager [TBD]
* Plug-and-play printing; page setup & print dialogs [TBD]
* Built-in clock with backup battery; reliable file dating. [about 1987]
* Sound
* Built-in speaker, 4 voice sound synthesizer, full digitized sound samples [SoundBlaster about 1987, but it wasn't common until about 1989]

* Speech
* Speech synthesis (Macintalk). [SoundBlaster about 1987, but not as widely used and not a system function]

* Floppy 3.5" floppy (400K) [about 1988]
* with automounting and auto-eject. [TBD]
* Also added a floppy disk cache [TBD]

* hot-swappable peripherals
* keyboard, mouse [1997 with USB, TBD popularized]

* MacPaint, MacWrite, MacDraw [Win3 - 1989, not as versatile]
* First person mainstream networked game (first person dungeon like game -- MazeWar, initially created at Xerox) [Wolfenstien or DOOM - 1992? far better graphics]
* Mac128K was an Ergonomic All in one Machine, semi-portable [1983 Osborn, sorta, some Compaq's in about 1993]
* Use of icons to label ports (all ports keyed to prevent mistakes) [1994?]

1985

* LaserWriter printer with Postscript (Apple also helped Adobe get off the ground as a company) [Win31 - 1991 was when Windows first supported Postscript, before then support was spotty]
* Networking (plug & play, integrated -- AppleTalk/LocalTalk) [1993 / TBD, WinForWorkgroups offered some networking as "option", not as easy or as integrated. Win95 improves it -- still not as easy, or ubiquitous as MacOS in 1985]
* Direct manipulation Resource Editor [TBD]
* Desktop Publishing (actually came from Mac Application called ReadySetGo, then Adobe Pagemaker, also Scoop, Xpress and a few others at about the same time, because of what the Macs WYSIWG capabilities) [Win31 - 1991 was when it first started working well on PC's]
* OOP / OOD (Object Oriented Design and Programming)
* Object Pascal (later borrowed by Borland) [1993]
* MacApp (first mainstream Object Oriented Framework, MS copied poorly with MFC) [1992 - MFC popularized]

* Movable Palettes
* Lifelike Interface [1994 - Bob]
* (forget the name, but there was a Finder Replacement that had an actual picture of a desktop, with a little assistant. Microsoft copied this about 8 years later as "Bob").

1986

* Plug-and play peripherals (SCSI) - ability to handle volumes/partitions to 2GB [1995+]
* Hypercard (simple object programming -- precursor to Visual Basic) [1990]
* Hypercard (simple hypertext linking -- precursor to the Web) [1993]
* First personal computer with 4MB linear memory space (Mac Plus) [1993 WinNT]
* Kanjitalk
* More versatile "Wavetable" sound manager [1989 SoundBlaster popularized]
* Memory Modules (SIMMS) instead of installing RAM chips [1988 - 1990]
* Dial in modem service. Apple create AppleLink communication service -- GE used the software to create AOL.
* Scroll speed throttle for uniform user experience regardless of processor speed. [TBD]
* ADB (Apple Desktop Bus): extensible, auto-config low-speed peripheral bus (precursor to USB) - [1997 with USB, TBD popularized]

1987

* Plug-and-play bus expansion (NuBus) [1995 PCI + PnP, 1997-98 popularized]
* Multifinder application multitasking [1991 Win31, 1993 WinNT]
* Ability to assign labels to files [TBD]
* Multiple monitor support: single large desktop [1998, TBD Popularized]
* Color QuickDraw, 256 color 640x480 graphics (same year as VGA with 16-color 640x480 or 256-color 320x200) [1991]
* Accelerated video cards [1991?]
* Full Page Display [1993]
* Dual Page Displays [1991]
* GWorlds (off screen graphics images used) [1992 - 1997, WinG didn't get working until Win95, and really working until DirectDraw]
* Built in masking, antialiasing and Dithering of images (actually masking and dithering was earlier). [TBD -- Done by programmers]
* Industrial Design: Snap Open Case (no screws) [TBD]

1988

* SCSI plug-and-play CD-ROM [1995 for PnP, not as easy or good]
* Ethertalk
* Superdrive, can read and write Mac, DOS, OS/2 files [TBD]

1989

* photo-realistic images (32-bit QuickDraw)
* 32 Bit Clean OS and 32-bit clean computers (software patches fixed older machines, no BIOS replacements) [1993 WinNT -- 2000 with Win2000]
* A/ROSE real-time operating system for smart cards [TBD]
* Multiprocessing (using cards like YARC and Radius Rocket) [1993 WinNT -- 2000 with Win2000 to popularize]
* Mac Portable, first mainstream portable with an integrated trackball and active matrix screen

1990

* Sound input [TBD]
* Built-in Ethernet (Quadra) [TBD, usually a low-cost extra]
* Publish and Subscribe and early work on Object Embedding (later to be borrowed and become OLE) [1992 - 1995]
* Aural feedback for controls (Sonic Finder) [Win95]
* Ability to assign custom icons to Finder objects [1989 through hacking, TBD]

1991

* Powerbook 100: first laptop with keyboard in back, trackball in front. [1993 - 1994]
* TrueType outline font technology (licensed to Microsoft)
* Balloon help (with contextual feedback) [1991 - Still not as versatile]
* Built in File sharing [1992 WfW, Win95 popularized]
* Robust aliases (unlike Windows' fallible "shortcuts" that came years later) [TBD]
* QuickTime [1992, Authoring not Available until 1995]
* Multimedia -- Apple created the term. They had been the first to integrate Sound, Speech, Text and Graphics (multiple medias), then expanded to include video (and later 3D) and pushed with CD-ROMs [1993 - 1995 until things worked right]
* Virtual Memory [1991 Win31 - 1993 WinNT, 1995 to popularize]
* Appletalk Remote Access [Extra]
* AppleScript: application and system scripting [1981 poorly, 1995 VBfApps, TBD]
* Integrated eMail [Win98]
* Integrated Keychain (Security) [TBD]
* Encryption and Security [1993 WinNT -- 2000 with Win2000 to popularize]
* Network Browser [Win95]
* Trash you have to empty (item in trash survive power down) [Win95]

1992

* Powerbook Duo: first dockable (e.g. "port replicator") but much more elegant [TBD]
* Global text input support (WorldScript) [TBD]
* ColorSync color matching [1999]
* Built-in CD-ROM's [?? 1994]
* Video Input - AV models
* Integrated DSP [1989 NeXT, 1996 with MMX]
* Industrial Design: Slide out Drawer [Some servers, rare]

1993

* Next generation speech synthesis
* Speech recognition (Speakable Items) [1996 - Win95 add-on, 1997 as powerful add-on, TBD to be popularized]
* Integrated telephony (Geoport) [Win98]
* First PC with built-in TV
* PDA [WinCE -- 1997 - 1998, but not as nice]
* Handwriting Recognition (Newton) [TBD]
* Gesture Recognition [TBD]

1994

* Powerbook 520: first widely-available laptop with trackpad.
* Power Macintosh: PowerPC RISC chip [1993 WinNT, most RISCs killed, TBD to popularize maybe 2001 - 2004 with Merced/McKinley]
* 68K emulation for seamless backward compatiblity. [TBD -- Alpha tries but not mainstream or as reliable]
* Graphing Calculator: real-time equation visualization, 2D and 3D.[TBD]
* MacOS on Unix (MAE)
* "Most Recent" folders
* Hierarchical menus
* Windowshade (collapsable windows)
* AppleGuide (help system with coachmarks) [TBD]
* PC Exchange (cross platform file compatibility) [TBD]
* Macintosh Easy Open (can open PC files)
* DOS/Windows compatibility cards and emulation software
* Threads [1993 NT, TBD to popularize]
* TCP/IP support
* Powerbook file synchronization [TBD]
* Continuous speech recognition and input (Cantonese dictation)
* Bento - Object Oriented Document model [TBD]
* IEEE-1394 (FireWire) [1998 as option (Sony), TBD popularized]

1995

* QuickTime VR, Conferencing
* Open Transport Networking (streams)
* QuickDraw 3D [1994 OpenGL, 1998 to popularize with Direct3D]
* Plug & Play PCI bus (PCI Only -- no ISA or older bus) [1995 Win95 was PnP support, general PCI earlier, PnP didn't work fully until 1997]

1996

* OpenDoc (Fully document centric interface model) [TBD]
* Integrated Browser (CyberDog) [Win98]
* Web as a data-type (CyberDog) [Win98]

1997

* Popup folders [TBD]
* Spring loaded folders [TBD]
* reorganized system folder [Still not as clean]

1998

* Sherlock full-text indexing and internet searching [TBD]
* Titlebar icons to represent the folder itself for dragging etc. [TBD]
* Appearance manager (Themes) [Limited in Win95, TBD]
* Audio Themes (Sonic Finder finally ships in 8.5) [Limited in Win95, TBD]
* Tear off Menu (Application Menu. Also Apple and NeXT merged, NeXT created them) [TBD]
* Resizable Menus [TBD]
* Customizable scroll bar behavior [TBD]
* Integrated System Wide antialiasing [1996 Win95 OSR2?, Win98]
* iMac - clear case, return of all-in-one, simplified design, ALL plug & play I/O, floppyless design [TBD]
* USB (Universal Serial Bus): this is a copy of the Apple Desktop Bus (ADB). Apple was also the first to make it ubiquitous and standard.[Added in 1996, support in Win98, TBD popularized]

1999

* Industrial Design: Handles + Door [TBD]
* AirPort -- Wireless networking made easy [TBD]

TROLLTALK (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 13 years ago | (#2366405)

Wheringod'sname is the

TROLLTALK NODE !!??!?!?

I'm a total wannabe! Teach me how to FP, you guys!

B1lly604t6ruff

Re:TROLLTALK (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 13 years ago | (#2366414)

That'd be on goatse.cx

GAY PEOPLE (KI|FU)CK ASS (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 13 years ago | (#2366429)

Our heterosexuals cry out in tortured horror:
  1. Have gay sex with CmdrTaco.
  2. Have gay sex with Hemos.
  3. Have gay sex with Michael.
  4. Have gay sex with Timothy.
  5. Have gay sex with Cliff.
  6. Have gay sex with Roblimo.
  7. Have gay sex with CowboyNeal.
  8. Have gay sex with JonKatz.
I suck on Cock. I shove my dick up Ass.

So the question then is... (1)

AKAImBatman (238306) | more than 13 years ago | (#2366430)

...where are the skins? I didn't see them on his site, did you?

Where are the 'Skins? (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 13 years ago | (#2366455)

0-2, they've only scored one field goal thus far, and they just cut Jeff George. In case you wondered.

Re:So the question then is... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 13 years ago | (#2366472)

seriously, someone must have downloaded his work so the community can take it underground, I'd love an aqua skin for mozilla

Re:So the question then is... (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 13 years ago | (#2366509)

Right here [realskinheads.net] , of course. We've always been here - working class pride! Oi oi oi!

What is needed (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 13 years ago | (#2366439)

is a native browser for OSX ala Galeon on linux. In other word we need a new project called something like Aqueon or cocoaeon Or is there a project like this already.

I'm the only person who ever posts this :( (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 13 years ago | (#2366442)

Our heterosexuals cry out in tortured horror:

Have gay sex with CmdrTaco.

Have gay sex with Hemos.

Have gay sex with Michael.

Have gay sex with Timothy.

Have gay sex with Cliff.

Have gay sex with Roblimo.

Have gay sex with CowboyNeal.

Have gay sex with JonKatz.
I suck on Cock. I shove my dick up Ass.

Aww shit (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 13 years ago | (#2366457)

I was hoping that the troll to nerd ratio would stay at more than 4:1. You trolls and ac's know what I am talking about. You know the two numbers there. You know how cool it is to see nunbers like 25 of 100 or 21 of 86 or better yet 39 of 200. Come on. We can make slashdot into a troll paradise if we just try hard enough.

... (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 13 years ago | (#2366460)

a lot of people claim that Micro$oft isn't innovative, whereas Linux is.

But is that statement true?

Consider this: Linux is a poor copy of a 1970s, has-been operating system. Windows 2000 is a modern, operating system designed to take full advantage of modern computers.

Re:... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 13 years ago | (#2366519)

Cars still have pistons and steering wheels. Good design doesn't age.

The design of Windows is almost irrelevant since the software engineering that goes into it is so poor. What it takes advantage of is modern computer users.

More trolls (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 13 years ago | (#2366462)

and offtopics and other moded down shit. Come on. Hey mods where the hell are ya. Mod this shit down. I dare ya. Come. Trolls and mods, yeah come on.

But I say, "Nay nay." (2, Interesting)

rice_burners_suck (243660) | more than 13 years ago | (#2366476)

This upsets me a little. I understand where Apple is coming from on this issue of "look-and-feel" because I can wholeheartedly respect the amount of work that goes into a successful user interface. It is very difficult to get everything working correctly, seamlessly and most of all... I hate it when I forget words. The word I wanted to use means that something can be operated with little instruction, using only common sense. You get the picture.

IMO, the user interface is the most difficult part of the system to make. There are so many rules and exceptions to those rules, and components have to interact with each other in ways that really don't make any sense. Design from a user's perspective is difficult, especially if you're trying to be (I hate to use this cuss word) "innovative." Design from a programmer's perspective is hell. Implementation is nothing short of a nightmare.

So when they get upset over someone using Aqua on a system that isn't Mac OS, I can totally understand. However, on the other hand, if I understood this story correctly, the Aqua interface was implemented as a theme FOR Mac OS. Now what upsets me is this: yes, I respect the work they put into Aqua, but they, on the other hand, clearly do NOT respect the colossal amount of work the Mozilla folks put into their browser. Why should it matter to Apple what Mozilla does? If Mozilla was a commercial product, and source code was not available publically, would Apple ever know or care how it was implemented? They say they want to be a part of the open source community and stuff, but I say "nay nay."

As a side note, I honestly prefer a simple command line interface, because it's so much easier to make and use. Personally, I don't know why the Windows and MacOS interfaces are mimicked so widely as they're clearly far from optimal. Windows is good for nothing. MacOS (I've used versions 7.x through 9) is great for running graphical applications where 99% of the input comes from the mouse. Its keyboard interface, on the other hand, is terrible IMO--even if you know all the shortcut keys. I might give OS X a try someday, just because it's based on BSD (I swear by the BSDs). Personally, I like to use the keyboard for 99% of the input, and the mouse as a supplimentary input device for when it's more convenient to click. I remember shipping air freight through Delta. Up until six months ago or so, they had old computer terminals with keyboard-only interfaces and old-school textual displays. The folks who worked there frankly didn't care how the text screen looked as long as it got the job done. And it did. One day, I stroll in there with a few packages and their system was changed... to Windows. It was probably one of those glossy sales presentations that got those things in there. The employees weren't even told about it--they came to work that day and their system was different, and there were no instructions. I remember how the guy had to click on a hundred different things with the mouse, move to the keyboard and punch in a few things, move back to the mouse and click on another hundred or so pretty pictures... in short, what used to take a minute or two by pushing a few keys now took about ten minutes, with most of the time spent clicking on things and moving between the keyboard and the mouse. Not only did Delta spend Lord-knows how much money on that new "system" but they lost productivity too. For what?! To be "user friendly?" To be "easy?" (Like AOL.) Why not just use the alleged "unfriendly" system, and just teach new employees the keys before putting them in front of that thing. The point of this side note is that graphical systems were originally invented for doing graphical work. Nowadays, this graphical system is used in places where a text one would actually be a better choice.

Priorities (3, Interesting)

daceaser (239083) | more than 13 years ago | (#2366492)

What worries me most is Apple's sense of priorities. They seem quite happy for someone to re-implement QuickTime for Linux as a third-party, yet they sue someone who creates a skin that looks like Aqua.

Does Apple think that colourful buttons are more valuable intellectual property than their video layer which they've spent the last 10 years developing?

Not that I mind QT for Linux, but the point stands. They'd rather have people buy a Mac for the shiny interface than the powerful graphics tools, or other _real_ technological assets.

I'm an Apple fiend, but sometimes the bods at Apple really leave me wondering...

these are long-known problems (3, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 13 years ago | (#2366508)

All of this stuff was discussed a year or two ago on MozillaZine [mozillazine.org] . The intellectual property issues were flagged and pooh-poohed, the impossibility of matching the Aqua widgets and behavior with XUL was discussed, and the problems with ignoring the native widgets in favor of a custom widget set were argued endlessly.

None of the custom-widget defenders could find any particular examples of required CSS behaviors that couldn't be done with native widgets. In fact the people who were claiming there were problems of this type seemed very ignorant of the graphics layer capabilities in MacOS (9 and X) and in Windows as well.

The fact is Mozilla went down the wrong path, a bunch of us tried to get them to reconsider, and they just wouldn't budge.

So surprise, everything we predicted has now come to pass.

Sigh

He got threatened (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 13 years ago | (#2366513)

I'm sorry but his explanation of how he "misunderstood" and "overreacted" and how apple was only mad because he wasn't providing a "pure" experience sounds like a bunch of crap to me. I'm sure they just politely explained to him how he must have "misunderstood" because otherwise he would be getting a real good "screwing" from apple. "thank you, goodbye."

Apple probably saw the reaction on slashdot and decided they could backpedal, slightly, get the victim to agree that there had been a misunderstanding (read: coersion), and save some face with the only communities that gives a rats ass about their pretty (read: annoying) interface.

Some interesting items (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 13 years ago | (#2366514)

Look at how much modding has been going on. Look at how more than 30 of the posts have been moded down to minus one. Yeah. Looks like the trolls are in force now. What out mods you have lots of work to do now. Yeah go troll. Trolls are powered up. Yeah linux sucks oh yeah you know it does. Yeah bsd is dead yeah you know it is. Keep trollin trollin trollin yeah keep trollin trollin trollin mod down mod down mod down some more yeah! And hey taco you think that 72 hour ban stopped me from posting this message. No way! I saved it and moved to one of hundreds of 'puters at my disposal. So try again. he yeah. Moderation really works well doesn't it. Slashdot sucks ass yeah mod this shit down come on mods. Get going!

Troll faster (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 13 years ago | (#2366528)

I must troll even faster than ever before cause Slashcode mod Autobots (da da da du daaa) mod even faster than ever before. Hey mods eat shit. Ok continuing typing crap until that 2 minute counter is up. Remember it is that the quality but rather the sheer quantity of trolling you can do that makes the difference.

You are the weakest developer (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 13 years ago | (#2366531)

GOODBYE yeah that is what these lamo slowzilla linsux guys are. Apple actually has a software buget and spends money and quality time. These guys hack shit to pass the day. Who is going to come out on top?
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