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Elementary OS "Freya" Beta Released

timothy posted about 1 month ago | from the so-very-simple dept.

Debian 209

jjoelc (1589361) writes One year after their last release "Luna", Elementary OS (a Linux distribution with a very heavy emphasis on design and usability which draws a lot of comparisons to Mac OS X) Has released the public beta of their latest version "Freya." Using core components from Ubuntu 14.04, "Freya" sports many improvements including the usual newer kernel, better hardware support and newer libraries.Other updates include a GSignon-based online accounts system, improved searches, Grub-free uEFI booting, GTK+ 3.12, an updated theme, and much more. This being a beta, the usual warnings apply, but I would also point out that the Elementary OS Team also has over $5,000 worth of bugs still available on Bountysource which can be a great way to contribute to the project and make a little dough while you are at it.

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Freyast Post! (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 1 month ago | (#47646119)

Elementary, beeyatches!

Freyast Post! (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 1 month ago | (#47646157)

Someone mod this ingenious Homo Sapiens up to the heavens!

Re:Freyast Post! (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 1 month ago | (#47646547)

Strange times when the first post trolls are actually on-topic.

Unless there is some killer feature (2, Insightful)

Chrisq (894406) | about 1 month ago | (#47646133)

Unless there is some killer feature, or the distribution is tailored well to a specific niche, I am quite bored with the "yet another Linux distro" articles

Re:Unless there is some killer feature (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 1 month ago | (#47646151)

BUT.... BUT... BUT.... It's OPEN! I mean.. It's FREE. It's OPEN and FREE. It's GREAT to have another fragmented linux experience!!! Just one more thing for developers to deal with when writing linux software. BUT HEY! IT'S OPEN and FREE and COOL....

Even Baskin Robbins knew to stop at 31 flavors.

Re:Unless there is some killer feature (1)

Thanshin (1188877) | about 1 month ago | (#47646239)

Even Baskin Robbins knew to stop at 31 flavors.

I count 55. [baskinrobbins.com]

Re:Unless there is some killer feature (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 1 month ago | (#47646591)

OPEN and FREE is like Obama's HOPE and CHANGE...

Re:Unless there is some killer feature (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 1 month ago | (#47646975)

OPEN and FREE is like Obama's HOPE and CHANGE...

Obama wanted to date Hope but she said he'd have to change political ideologies. Apparently he did. Hope broke-up with Obama saying "I need MySpace."

Re:Unless there is some killer feature (2)

danbuter (2019760) | about 1 month ago | (#47646367)

At least it is Tech news, unlike half the articles on the main page. Or does Tech news not interest you?

Usability is THE killer feature that Linux needs (5, Insightful)

kervin (64171) | about 1 month ago | (#47646391)

Unless there is some killer feature, or the distribution is tailored well to a specific niche, I am quite bored with the "yet another Linux distro" articles

As someone who uses Ubuntu as their primary desktop OS both at home and at work, I have to say that usability is the biggest feature holding back Linux desktop. It is the reason all those "year of the linux desktop" stories are BS. Hence it is the killer feature for the Linux Desktop.

Linux Desktop feels like someone built a great desktop but never went back and reviewed their work. There are so many little things daily that cause the OS to be hard to use for regular people. And yes, that includes Ubuntu.

I wish there was a commercial Linux desktop option that offered create support, spent some time cleaning up and smoothing out the rough edges on the Linux Desktop, and had just one top tier hardware partner. I would gladly pay a few hundred dollars a year for this.

Re:Usability is THE killer feature that Linux need (2)

serviscope_minor (664417) | about 1 month ago | (#47646533)

There are so many little things daily that cause the OS to be hard to use for regular people. And yes, that includes Ubuntu.

Such as? Are you sure it's not a question of familiarity, where someone who has used almost nothing but Linux might notice similar irritations about other OSs?

Re:Usability is THE killer feature that Linux need (4, Insightful)

war4peace (1628283) | about 1 month ago | (#47646911)

* No GUI for a lot of small-thing configuration activities;
* Invariably having to drop to terminal to do this and that;
* When I double-click on an "executable" I want it to execute, not open it in whatever equivalent of Notepad there is;
* I want my updates to install as seamlessly as possible, e.g. download and install updates in the background then let me know I need to restart (if that's the case), much like Android does;
* App store for my favorite flavor, where I could sort by features, not by category;
* While you're at it, give the applications proper names. A Text editor named "Kate"? A streaming application called "XBMC"? A music placer called "Clementine", "Banshee" or "Amarok"? Please...
* Make it absurdly easy to mount an ISO or browse a network/network share.
* Enable "Win" key functionality and try to replicate as many "Win"+key commands to make former Windows-based power users feel at home (Win+R, Win+Arrows).
* Make it easy to search for files and folders. Many times I copied a file or downloaded a file and I had no idea where it was, searching for it yielded no results but manually browsing around eventually found it. Y U NO SEARCH???

The above are off the top of my head and represent just a little part of my overall "user-inducing frustration" that pretty much every Desktop Linux flavor thrown at me so far.

I don't know how to best emphasize on this: as a desktop user, I simply loathe having to open terminal and drop to root 50 times a day, when whatever I have to do should involve a right-click and picking a menu entry or a couple checkmarks selected in a configuration GUI window. People eventually start doing everything as root and then they are laughed at for "not being secure". Well, doh. It's the OS pushing that behavior, not the user choosing it deliberately.

Re:Usability is THE killer feature that Linux need (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about 1 month ago | (#47647389)

Allow me to give an objective reply (sometimes agreeing, sometimes disagreeing).

* No GUI for a lot of small-thing configuration activities;
* Invariably having to drop to terminal to do this and that;

I'm a complete n00b with Linux Mint 16 installed, and I hardly ever have to do this for my regular use. Everything worked out of the box. I only use the command line for a particular video editing feature, because I am too cheap to buy a better program, and because someone wrote a simple program that does exactly what I need.

* When I double-click on an "executable" I want it to execute, not open it in whatever equivalent of Notepad there is;

I agree with this one.

* I want my updates to install as seamlessly as possible, e.g. download and install updates in the background then let me know I need to restart (if that's the case), much like Android does;

Actually, no, that is really annoying, because you end up with a computer that does stuff behind your back, and is using bandwidth/processor power when I need it. I will choose when my computer can have those resources. For me, the way Ubuntu / Linux Mint does its updates is by far superior to any other method I have seen.

* App store for my favorite flavor, where I could sort by features, not by category;

The app stores are relatively new to Linux, and this may be built in the future. I generally end up googling for the program that I want, then selecting it from the app store for installation anyway. But it is probably true that Linux' app stores are not as fancy as the commercial ones. Also, the apps are almost all free, which may have something to do with it.

* While you're at it, give the applications proper names. A Text editor named "Kate"? A streaming application called "XBMC"? A music placer called "Clementine", "Banshee" or "Amarok"? Please...

As opposed to your document viewer called "Acrobat Reader", your browser called "Firefox", and your video player called "VLC"? Please...

* Make it absurdly easy to mount an ISO or browse a network/network share.

(sorry, not sure what this is about)

* Enable "Win" key functionality and try to replicate as many "Win"+key commands to make former Windows-based power users feel at home (Win+R, Win+Arrows).

If you're a hardcore Windows user, I recommend Windows for you. However, you are not the average windows user. The large majority know zero such combinations. But I believe Ubuntu with Unity uses a lot of win-key combinations for useful stuff. Personally, I only use it to open the "start" menu in my Linux Mint. I can do without all the fancy stuff.

* Make it easy to search for files and folders. Many times I copied a file or downloaded a file and I had no idea where it was, searching for it yielded no results but manually browsing around eventually found it. Y U NO SEARCH???

I also agree with this one. There are tools, but they are not user friendly enough, and I also struggle sometimes. The method most often recommended is something called grep, I think, and that is always command line which just sucks because I always fail to get a result.

The above are off the top of my head and represent just a little part of my overall "user-inducing frustration" that pretty much every Desktop Linux flavor thrown at me so far.

I don't know how to best emphasize on this: as a desktop user, I simply loathe having to open terminal and drop to root 50 times a day, when whatever I have to do should involve a right-click and picking a menu entry or a couple checkmarks selected in a configuration GUI window. People eventually start doing everything as root and then they are laughed at for "not being secure". Well, doh. It's the OS pushing that behavior, not the user choosing it deliberately.

I agree that it sucks to have to open a terminal. But I don't mind to have to enter my password to allow my computer to do something. And if anything, it seems that other OSs are going the same way. My work computer requires a password for almost everything.

Re:Usability is THE killer feature that Linux need (1)

war4peace (1628283) | about 1 month ago | (#47647557)

"Actually, no, that is really annoying, because you end up with a computer that does stuff behind your back, and is using bandwidth/processor power when I need it. I will choose when my computer can have those resources. For me, the way Ubuntu / Linux Mint does its updates is by far superior to any other method I have seen."

1. Using the lowest CPU priority and network QoS ensures you have all the bandwidth/power you need, when you need it.
2. I maybe WANT an OS that does some things behind my back. I'm not a control freak, and I see some automation as empowering me to focus on my tasks rather than the operating system's maintenance.

"As opposed to your document viewer called "Acrobat Reader", your browser called "Firefox", and your video player called "VLC"? Please..."

Acrobat Reader actually says in the app name that is's a "Reader". It reads files. Firefox and VLC are both F/OSS which might be the root cause for the funky naming conventions. I didn't say Linux is responsible for funky names. Maybe F/OSS is, and Linux being part of it inherits the funkiness :)

"But I don't mind to have to enter my password to allow my computer to do something."

Me neither, but when that happens every 5 minutes it adds up to a lot of interruptions. I like staying focused for more than 5 minutes at a time, and asking for a password too often is like the stewardess asking you to show her your plane ticket every 5 minutes for the duration of an 8-hour trip.

Re:Usability is THE killer feature that Linux need (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 1 month ago | (#47647907)

>Me neither, but when that happens every 5 minutes it adds up to a lot of interruptions.
If you need to do a lot of administrative tasks, why haven't you taken 2 seconds to look into how to log to a root shell?

Or just read sudo's manpage if you're unhappy with the default policy.

Re:Usability is THE killer feature that Linux need (2)

war4peace (1628283) | about 1 month ago | (#47648311)

Thank you for confirming my GP statements.
As a desktop user, I don't have to log a root shell, I don't have to read man sudo's man pages. I need a GUI with point-and-click and embedded help. Because I am a fucking desktop user, yeah, the "idiot" who is referred to as "luser" and has to work on those boring spreadsheets and webapps that the mighty developer doesn't give a fuck about.

With most of my work taking place in web-based applications I struggled to switched to Linux for no compelling reason. Nobody's forcing me to do so.

Re:Usability is THE killer feature that Linux need (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 1 month ago | (#47648519)

Are you telling me you can modify system-wide parameters in OS X and Windows without authenticating as admin/root? Because if you need to type sudo for every command, that's simply because your user does not have the required permission. An unprivileged user should not affect other users.

But yeah, Windows desktop users fail to comprehend multi-user operating system I guess.

Re:Usability is THE killer feature that Linux need (1)

reikae (80981) | about 1 month ago | (#47648421)

It's true that funky names are ubiquitous in the free software world, and I often wish developers came up with something better. But unhelpful names aren't limited to FOSS. What would your grandmother (if she's familiar with computers, pick another relative :-)) guess Adobe Acrobat does? Or Microsoft Silverlight? Windows? Visual Studio?

Re:Usability is THE killer feature that Linux need (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 1 month ago | (#47647711)

* Make it absurdly easy to mount an ISO or browse a network/network share.

(sorry, not sure what this is about)

I think it what happens when you click on a ISO file with Gnome Files or KDE File Manager . As opposed to the much easier and intuitive process of getting daemon tools for windows (while avoiding the numerous spams with fake "download" links on their homepage.

Re:Usability is THE killer feature that Linux need (1)

Blakey Rat (99501) | about 1 month ago | (#47648131)

Actually, no, that is really annoying, because you end up with a computer that does stuff behind your back, and is using bandwidth/processor power when I need it.

The CPU power is a non-issue for an application like this.

Windows solved the bandwidth problem by creating BITS, Background Intelligent Transfer Service, that only consumes bandwidth when no other processes are making bandwidth demands. So if you're halfway through a 2-GB patch, and start up Battlefield 4, the patch download will automatically stop until BF4 is done using the network.

Surely Linux has a feature like that that can be used? This should be a 100% solved problem in 2014.

Re:Usability is THE killer feature that Linux need (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 1 month ago | (#47647419)

I fully agree with everything you mentioned and would add one more to your list: Right-Click: Run As Administrator. I have multiple programs that were installed from the software center but will not open from their icon on the launcher due to them needing admin rights. They do not automatically prompt for the admin password and there is no option to right-click on them to modify their properties or run them as admin. Instead, they require scouring the Internet to find the mysterious folder location the author decided to put their program in and to use a terminal to navigate to said folder and modify text files to add some non-obvious command to get them to trigger an admin password prompt. Absolutely ridiculous.

The longest I've managed to go with Linux on a desktop was 2 months before I got sick and tired of having to use workarounds just to watch Flash videos on some websites. My home server has been running Linux for over 2 years now but it has been a constant struggle of bullshit terminal crap to keep it working.

Re:Usability is THE killer feature that Linux need (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 1 month ago | (#47647857)

>The longest I've managed to go with Linux on a desktop was 2 months

I started using a Windows computer 2 months ago and I can't figure out things. Why are computers so hard?

Re:Usability is THE killer feature that Linux need (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 1 month ago | (#47647715)

Why are you using Linux when you could just use Windows?

Seriously, you sound like someone who has baby duck syndrome.

Re:Usability is THE killer feature that Linux need (1)

war4peace (1628283) | about 1 month ago | (#47648229)

I actually AM using Windows and would like Linux to succeed. I'm trying to do Linux good, and it's saddening how you fail to comprehend that.

Re:Usability is THE killer feature that Linux need (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 1 month ago | (#47647721)

* No GUI for a lot of small-thing configuration activities;

agreed, a thousand times agreed

* Invariably having to drop to terminal to do this and that;

agreed, same thing. That should never happen. On desktop, dropping to terminal should be there to save your ass when you fucked up *really* bad. Just like the registry editor in Windows ...

* When I double-click on an "executable" I want it to execute, not open it in whatever equivalent of Notepad there is;

??? I don't get this one. I have plenty of icons on my desktop that I double-click and it "just starts". And when I double-click a script file (which I guess is what you refer to), it either executes directly or, depending on my current config, it first asks whether I want to edit it or execute it.

* I want my updates to install as seamlessly as possible, e.g. download and install updates in the background then let me know I need to restart (if that's the case), much like Android does;

Ubuntu does just that: background download and install, signals a reboot is needed (if needed). every single time.

* App store for my favorite flavor, where I could sort by features, not by category;

well, I don't care about this, but I see how it could be very useful, so: agreed (supposing it doesn't exist already)

* While you're at it, give the applications proper names. A Text editor named "Kate"? A streaming application called "XBMC"? A music placer called "Clementine", "Banshee" or "Amarok"? Please...

you forgot Git and Gimp. That's the most ridiculous argument I've ever heard ... must be what people call "ad nominem" attack

* Make it absurdly easy to mount an ISO or browse a network/network share.

ubuntu does just that again: double-click on *.iso, it opens as a folder. Same for the network: in the explorer (Nautilus in Ubuntu), click on "network" (or whatever the name is in English) and there you are, browsing the network (and don't get me started on how slow it can be, it's exactly as slow as when you explore the WORKGROUP network with Windows explorer) . What more do you want exactly ? I mean double-click and it opens is as "absurdly easy" as it gets.

* Enable "Win" key functionality and try to replicate as many "Win"+key commands to make former Windows-based power users feel at home (Win+R, Win+Arrows).

1. why ? is Windows suddenly going to implement all the awesome shortcut we have in Linux (copy-paste with mouse selection for one) ?
2. anyway, ignore previous point. in Ubuntu you can personalize keyboard shortcut at will, just by going to settings / keyboard (I set Win+L for logout for instance, just like Windows. Old habits die hard.). What more do you want, why should the default be Windows's shortcut ? should we implement all the OSX shortcuts also ?

* Make it easy to search for files and folders. Many times I copied a file or downloaded a file and I had no idea where it was, searching for it yielded no results but manually browsing around eventually found it. Y U NO SEARCH???

mmmmh, I don't know about that one, I thought the newest versions of Gnome/KDE/Unity do just that: index all your files and content and give them back on an as-you-type basis. But I disabled these functionalities so I cannot test it right now. I might agree with you on this one, *iff* it's really not an already existing feature of the latest UI (you know, just like you pretend *.iso cannot be browsed like any normal folder).

On the other hand, note that I've had several amusing "no file found that corresponds to your request" in Windows Vista and 7 when my query was perfectly correct (be it file name or content-based research). Oh wait, that's anecdots.

Anyway, I'm 100% with you on some of you points (some UI sucks, don't-drop-to-terminal) and I've been a Linux-only user at work and home for more than 5 years (and, yes, I use the terminal a lot, but it's *on purpose*). But many of your others opinions seem based on +4-year old issues (real issues at that time though), so you might want to give it another try. (and no, I don't think any year less than 10 years away will be the year of Linux on the desktop)

Re:Usability is THE killer feature that Linux need (1)

war4peace (1628283) | about 1 month ago | (#47648219)

you forgot Git and Gimp. That's the most ridiculous argument I've ever heard ... must be what people call "ad nominem" attack

Might be ridiculous to you, but I am comparing to Android application names.
Opening my Tools folder, I see Calculator, Clock, ES File Explorer, Flash Alerts, GPS Essentials, My Files, Settings, Speech Synthesis, Speedtest, Translate, Voice Recorder and Wifi Analyzer. Guess what each does?
The problem is not the "chosen name". "Gimp" would be fine if it would be called "Gimp Image Editor". So, okay, it's an image editor which is called "Gimp".
But it's a matter of subjective perception.

ubuntu does just that again: double-click on *.iso, it opens as a folder.
Which doesn't help me a bit. I want it to mount as a drive. As for browsing a network, I usually found it painful to mount a network drive which is still there after a restart. Speed comes secondary.

why ? is Windows suddenly going to implement all the awesome shortcut we have in Linux (copy-paste with mouse selection for one) ?
See, that't the problem. Windows doesn't want to replace some of Linux Desktop's market share, it doesn't need to implement Linux shortcuts. It's the other way around.
Linux's market share is tiny. If it needs to expand, it would have to become attractive and "dress" like its "foe". It's fine if it doesn't do that, but how hard would it be to implement an install-time configuration window saying "enable Windows-like shortcuts?"?

But many of your others opinions seem based on +4-year old issues
I admit I haven't got that far as to testing some of them as of late, but I did install Ubuntu 14.04 recently as well as CentOS 7, and although better than their predecessors, they're simply not quite there.

Re:Usability is THE killer feature that Linux need (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 1 month ago | (#47648491)

ubuntu does just that again: double-click on *.iso, it opens as a folder.
Which doesn't help me a bit. I want it to mount as a drive

as far as I could test, it does mount as a drive (and appears in Nautilus left panel with the little arrow to unmount it and when opening the "My Computer" shortcut (or whatever the name in English)) and the opening folder is showing the content of that drive. However, now that I test it a bit more I notice it does not appear in the list of available drives, say for VLC for instance.

. As for browsing a network, I usually found it painful to mount a network drive which is still there after a restart. Speed comes secondary.

okay, that's clearer, I put my network drives in the file explorer and click on them whenever I need them but I'm not sure whether they are mounted when I boot or when I click.

but how hard would it be to implement an install-time configuration window saying "enable Windows-like shortcuts?"?

Now *that* is an option I'd really like to see at install time when I "switch" some friends from Windows.

But many of your others opinions seem based on +4-year old issues
I admit I haven't got that far as to testing some of them as of late, but I did install Ubuntu 14.04 recently as well as CentOS 7, and although better than their predecessors, they're simply not quite there.

As a side-note, I'm currently stuck at 12.04 for work-related reasons, but I recently installed 14.04 on a friend's laptop and would have thought it did the index & research content thing for instance ... I'll test that again. Gnome and KDE I'm pretty sure they do.

Re:Usability is THE killer feature that Linux need (1)

johnsie (1158363) | about 1 month ago | (#47647169)

Linux developers are notoriously terrible at designing user interfaces. For example: 1. The Unity lens 2. GIMP 3. Open/LibreOffice And those are the "big" applications. When you start looking at the smaller applications its gets even worse. Alot of half-assed, ugly looking applications. Then there is hardware support, which they like to blame on the hardware vendors, but if you look at the poor quality user interfaces you can see that the vendors are only part of the problem. I'm not saying all Linux developers are lazy or poor at design, but that's what comes across when I use Linux applications. It's missing quality control and developers have no incentive to make their programs look nice.

Re:Usability is THE killer feature that Linux need (1)

serviscope_minor (664417) | about 1 month ago | (#47648581)

For example: 1. The Unity

I don't use Unity, but sure fine. I don't like it.

2. GIMP

Some people seem to dislike this program. I've never understood that. I think it works substantially better if you have a quality window manager.

3. Open/LibreOffice

What the heck is wrong with LibreOffice? it's a perfectly normal program in almost every way with no surprises.

Re: Usability is THE killer feature that Linux nee (1)

Simon Brooke (45012) | about 1 month ago | (#47647347)

Well, exactly. I find Gnome on Debian a very un-annoying desktop. It all just works. Compared to Windows 7, Debian is for me much less annoying and more productive.

Re:Usability is THE killer feature that Linux need (1)

WalrusSlayer (883300) | about 1 month ago | (#47647575)

There are so many little things daily that cause the OS to be hard to use for regular people. And yes, that includes Ubuntu.

Such as? Are you sure it's not a question of familiarity, where someone who has used almost nothing but Linux might notice similar irritations about other OSs?

In other words: "Are you a complete noob and therefore it's your fault?" "Are you sure you're smart enough?"

To be fair, you phrased it nicely. But it's still the same old mindset underneath that prevents Linux desktop from getting any traction. As soon as the Linux community takes on are default mindset that any negative user experiences are the desktop's fault and not the user's fault, things might have a prayer of getting better. Sure, you're never going to make an OS that has zero learning curve, but apologizing for the learning curve rather than trying to lessen it doesn't help anybody.

Re:Usability is THE killer feature that Linux need (1)

serviscope_minor (664417) | about 1 month ago | (#47648507)

To be fair, you phrased it nicely. But it's still the same old mindset underneath that prevents Linux desktop from getting any traction.

No, it's really not. Familiarity is amazingly important. The thing is I use Linux more than anything else. If I go on a Windows or OSX machine, I'm presenetd with all sorts of weirdnesses and illogical things and things which plain old get in the way.

It's not a question of n00bishness but not working on the systems I work on day-in day-out every day.

My point is that the irritations might simply be lack of familiarity (and seriously how did you jump from that to me accusing the GP of being stupid?). You can make all of those disappear by making it *identical* to your OS of choice. That won't necessarily make it better, just more familiar.

But it's still the same old mindset underneath that prevents Linux desktop from getting any traction.

At what cost? If the cost is that in order for Linux to gain traction then it has to be like Windows or OSX, then there doesn't to be a whole lot of point. I personally prefer using Linux to either of those two, so changing things to be more like other systems and less like linux, especially when there is no improvement, would be a detriment to me.

As soon as the Linux community takes on are default mindset that any negative user experiences are the desktop's fault and not the user's fault,

Again, you're just making stuff up about what I said. Linux is not perfect, and certainly has things wrong with it. However many of the "wrong" things aren't: they're just different.

Re:Usability is THE killer feature that Linux need (1)

TheNarrator (200498) | about 1 month ago | (#47646551)

It seems like Chrome OS already won the usability contest and has had significant commercial success. It's funny because Chrome OS is so easy to use and polished that even techies assume it's not linux. Just flip a switch though and you've got a bash shell and you can install an Ubuntu system on top of it.

Here's an example of a guy easily turning these $199 chrome books into ubuntu based coding machines:

http://blog.codestarter.org/po... [codestarter.org]

Re:Usability is THE killer feature that Linux need (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 1 month ago | (#47647015)

I'd keep the Chromebook with ChromeOS and remotely connect to virtualised development instances via SSH in the web browser.

Re:Usability is THE killer feature that Linux need (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 1 month ago | (#47646721)

Well, I'd personally eat a bullet if I'd have to go back to the Ubuntu UI.

Cinnamon and practically anything else is better than what they use.

Reliability is THE killer feature that Linux needs (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 1 month ago | (#47646789)

People talk about usability, design, experience and whatever fad, but forget that many of us could not care less what their desktop looks like. What is important, that it works and one can perform the job the computer was bought for. My biggest issue with Linux currently is related to the Samsung's poor printer support. The printing did work for many years, but suddenly the Apple upnp crap got into Debian/Ubuntu's CUPS and the printer does not work anymore. Also the systemd seems to break now one feature after another; power management broke last week, power button before it, core dumps were gone at first step, and so on. If the laptop does not warn for power loss beforehand, it is really hard to suggest Linux anymore for noobs. Luckily the Mint has LTS version, so perhaps there are still some hope that things get fixed before current trend of race to bottom at quality meets the bigger audience.

Re:Usability is THE killer feature that Linux need (2, Informative)

rmstar (114746) | about 1 month ago | (#47647093)

As someone who uses Ubuntu as their primary desktop OS both at home and at work, I have to say that usability is the biggest feature holding back Linux desktop.

I keep wondering about this one. Because of work requirements, I started using windows again after a long hiatus, and find it rather cranky (windows 7). It was easier to program the reactions to my marble ball mouse under linux than it was under windows 7 (essentially impossible to get reasonable scroll-wheel emulation). Then there isn't anything remotely comparable with xmodmap. I can't have multiple desktops. Files are named in weird ways (PROGRA~1, etc) that have their special rules (it really is much simpler in linux). The keyboard layout kept unhelpfully switching to whatever it felt was right, and it took a long battle to ensure it stays where I want it. And Skype has annoying ads under windows.

Installing updates is gargantuan pain in the buttocks, especially when compared with ubuntu. In windows, a reboot is almost always necessary after downloading and installing updates. Quite often you need multiple reboots, and all of it takes ages. Under ubuntu they are much faster and unintrusive.

So, in my experience Windows actually sucks compared to a decent linux distro. All the talk about the little annoying things in linux is, I think, due to an illusion. Windows is popular today because it was popular yesterday, so people are used to it and all its little (and not so little) annoying things. They just don't notice anymore.

Re:Usability is THE killer feature that Linux need (0)

nine-times (778537) | about 1 month ago | (#47647263)

Installing updates is gargantuan pain in the buttocks, especially when compared with ubuntu.

Especially since Windows has this weird thing where you have to enter a long alphanumeric code during the installation. Talk about confusing. Apparently I entered the wrong one and it kept giving error messages. After a couple months, the whole thing stopped working. I wonder what that code actually does, aside from breaking things when you enter the wrong one.

Re:Usability is THE killer feature that Linux need (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 1 month ago | (#47647373)

I wasn't sure if you had legitimate complaints or just trolling until I saw this part:

Files are named in weird ways (PROGRA~1, etc)

And with that, fuck you, troll.

Re:Usability is THE killer feature that Linux need (1)

nine-times (778537) | about 1 month ago | (#47647209)

In fairness, Microsoft Windows sometimes feels like a great desktop OS where the designers never went back and reviewed their work. They have occasional spurts of activity where Microsoft goes back and fixes things, but that's only between spurts of activity where they add a bunch of nonsense that doesn't work, while breaking things.

Re: Usability is THE killer feature that Linux nee (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 1 month ago | (#47647455)

There is, although it is based on BSD. It's called OSX

Re:Usability is THE killer feature that Linux need (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 1 month ago | (#47648313)

You do know that several companies sold something like this for most of the previous decade right? There was a time you could walk in to Office Depot and pick up a boxed copy of Red Hat or Suse, with a printed manual and all that. Guess what? There's no market for it. You'd be better off giving your hundreds of dollars to a student to hire them to help you personally.

Try it before passing judgement (4, Interesting)

benmhall (9092) | about 1 month ago | (#47646791)

I've been using Elementary OS Luna for about a year now. It's just lovely.

It has no grand plans of world-domination or a perfectly converged all-in-one interface to rule them all. It does give me the stability and packages of Ubuntu with excellent desktop usability and elegance.

It offers a consistent, well-thought out interface. It easily supports colour calibration, multiple workspaces and monitors, great keybindings, etc. After using it for a bit, it has become an effortless part of my workflow in a way that Unity failed to.

And that's the old version.

This is news. As someone using Desktop Linux daily, a new release of Elementary OS based on the latest LTS of Ubuntu is what will finally have me upgrading my machines. I have great respect and appreciation for what Cannonical has done for the Linux desktop. I use Ubuntu everywhere I can, but for day-to-day Linux desktop use, I use and recommend Elementary OS.

Try it. If you like simple and elegant interfaces, I think you'll like it.

Try it before passing judgement (1)

schrodingersGato (2602023) | about 1 month ago | (#47647905)

I could not agree with your comment more. I've been using elementary since its original beta and absolutely love it. It not only looks great, but it is laid out to be usable. My core i5 dell with elementary luna is my go-to coding machine. This new release should make it even better. Having used quite a few distros over the last 12+ years (RHL, gentoo, mandrake, Suse, ubuntu, fedora, debian, cent, *BSD), I can say this is by far the best thought-out release I have ever used. Seriously, give it a try.

Re: "looks like OSX so who cares" comments:
The only feature this distro really shares with OSX is the dock, which BTW, can literally be installed on an OS now. The animations are crisp, memory footprint is light, and it has enough unique usability feature to make it transcend the "OSX-clone" status.

Re:Unless there is some killer feature (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 1 month ago | (#47648601)

And, quite frankly, we're all bored with the "I am quite bored with" posts.

Seriously, who gives a fuck what you are bored with? Other than being a whiny bitch, what do you bring to the table of value?

Oh, wait, nothing at all.

Are you bored with soup for lunch as well? A little malaise around tomatoes? Ennui over white bread?

Grub-free uEFI booting (1)

outsider007 (115534) | about 1 month ago | (#47646149)

Well Thor might appreciate that, but I doubt Loki will.

i can afford a Mac, thank you (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 1 month ago | (#47646181)

why would i ever use some shit like linux? linux is like foodtamps. i'm glad it exists for the poor masses but i don't want to know anything about it.

Re:i can afford a Mac, thank you (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 1 month ago | (#47646265)

Ignorance is bliss

Re:i can afford a Mac, thank you (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 1 month ago | (#47647249)

Feel free to make a note of it and put it aside for later use, along with grammar, punctuation and the use of capital letters.

Oh great... (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 1 month ago | (#47646199)

Oh great... Yet another crapulent Linux distro with yet another half baked UI.

When will Linux developers stop endlessly farting around with basic UI concepts and actually write some useful programs ?

Maybe then actual humans might want to use the bloody things.

Linux is just one big wank fest of coding for the sake of coding and an extreme manifestation of "not invented here" syndrome.

Bunch of losers..

draws a lot of comparisons to Mac OS X (3, Insightful)

SirDrinksAlot (226001) | about 1 month ago | (#47646211)

"draws a lot of comparisons to Mac OS X" or Draws a lot of cues from OSX?

Drawing a comparison would suggest its different but comparable, and not inspired by. Straight up copying as it is I wouldn't even suggest saying it's drawing cues.

If I wanted OS X I'd run OS X. I'm not sure why Slashdot is bothering to cover a distro whose claim to fame is ripping off somebody elses design. Or at least cover it and act like they're doing something unique.

Re:draws a lot of comparisons to Mac OS X (5, Insightful)

nine-times (778537) | about 1 month ago | (#47646431)

If I wanted OS X I'd run OS X. I'm not sure why Slashdot is bothering to cover a distro whose claim to fame is ripping off somebody elses design. Or at least cover it and act like they're doing something unique.

I think a lot of people want OSX, but also want to run something that's free (libre & gratis) on commodity hardware. Hence, interest in a Linux distro that draws lots of [whatever] from OSX.

Re:draws a lot of comparisons to Mac OS X (2)

mozumder (178398) | about 1 month ago | (#47646557)

Nobody is interested in a free version of Mac OS X.

And, anybody that wanted OS X would have bought Apple hardware anyways.

A cheap mac laptop is about $1000 (never mind the Mac Mini..). If you can't afford that, then you have much bigger problems than trying to run linux.

Re:draws a lot of comparisons to Mac OS X (0, Flamebait)

johnsie (1158363) | about 1 month ago | (#47647217)

The reason why alot of people have money is that they don't waste it on crap like overrated Apple hardware.

Mod Parent Up! (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 1 month ago | (#47647861)

Mod Parent Up....do it already!

Re:draws a lot of comparisons to Mac OS X (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 1 month ago | (#47646613)

On the other hand I just want a Linux distro that looks and works exactly like MacOS 9.

Re:draws a lot of comparisons to Mac OS X (1)

Howitzer86 (964585) | about 1 month ago | (#47646683)

It isn't even the first Linux distro to try this. Remember Dream Linux? [distrowatch.com] .

Re:draws a lot of comparisons to Mac OS X (1)

benmhall (9092) | about 1 month ago | (#47647451)

Drawing a comparison would suggest its different but comparable, and not inspired by. Straight up copying as it is I wouldn't even suggest saying it's drawing cues.

I'm not really sure why people think that Elementary OS is a copy of OS X. Sure, it's similar in the same way that all contemporary smartphones look like an iPhone, but beneath the theme (with a dock, like WindowMaker, XFCE, and countless other WMs have) it behaves very differently - distinctly. Workspaces, for instance, are quite different. There's no integrated top menu like there is in Mac OS or Unity, all apps behave very differently than they would on Mac OS X, etc.

Even the theme isn't really a Mac clone. It's "just" a grey theme (albeit a well designed one) with slight gradients and very little, very well created window chrome. Mac OS, Chrome OS, Elementary OS, Cinnamon/Linux Mint, and to a lesser extent Gnome, are all heading in a similar direction design-wise; they aren't really copying each other to get there, though.

Any similarities are skin deep. The Elementary OS team is making changes and design decisions from the default language to applications that result in a fast, coherent system that bears little resemblance to Mac OS (or Windows or Unity, for that matter.)

Re:draws a lot of comparisons to Mac OS X (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 1 month ago | (#47647807)

"I'm not really sure why people think that Elementary OS is a copy of OS X. Sure, it's similar in the same way that all contemporary smartphones look like Palm OS."

Fixed this for you :-)

I still don't see why people would want an OS to look like Mac OS X: with a manky top menu bar and a really annoying taskbar that both take up massive amounts of screen estate. Let's not even mention that fact that you have to memorise a million and one key presses to do anything useful.

Nah, I'd rather have xfce with some tuning to clean stuff up.

Re:draws a lot of comparisons to Mac OS X (1)

benmhall (9092) | about 1 month ago | (#47648591)

"... all contemporary smartphones look like Palm OS."

Fixed this for you :-)

That made me laugh! In many ways, I still find PamOS to be a more effecient OS than what's available today. Just think of how fast it was considering it was running on a CPU chunking away at 8-33MHz! That said, you really can't go back.

SNIP

Nah, I'd rather have xfce with some tuning to clean stuff up.

I also love XFCE and still use it on any servers with X11 installed. (Though I miss the days of it looking like CDE.) The last time I tried it in earnest, it didn't handle multi-monitor support very well. Has that improved recently?

Re:draws a lot of comparisons to Mac OS X (1)

Tamran (1424955) | about 1 month ago | (#47648501)

If I wanted OS X I'd run OS X. I'm not sure why Slashdot is bothering to cover a distro whose claim to fame is ripping off somebody elses design. Or at least cover it and act like they're doing something unique.

It draws comparison because of design principals - most notably productivity. So, some things seem similar but it is a different (in a good way) experience from Gnome, KDE, Windows 7, and OSX.

This journal entry by the elementary team may shed some light: http://elementaryos.org/journa... [elementaryos.org]

Mac OS X is usable? (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 1 month ago | (#47646233)

I find it odd that anyone would call OS X something to aspire to when it comes to UI design. I find OS X to be extremely clumsy with way too many inconsistent behaviors. I am not comparing it to Windows as if Windows is the best UI ever, but at least with Windows things are mostly consistent (not Windows 8).

Re:Mac OS X is usable? (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 1 month ago | (#47646281)

So true. Never cared for mac os interface, classic nor X. It just wastes time.

Freya (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 1 month ago | (#47646241)

wasn't that the code name of an early Android version?

Re:Freya (1)

oodaloop (1229816) | about 1 month ago | (#47646305)

Maybe you're thinking of Froyo?

Re:Freya (2)

Thanshin (1188877) | about 1 month ago | (#47646353)

"In Norse mythology, Froyjo (Old Norse the "Lordo"), son of Njörðr, is a god associated with yolo, swag and yogurt. "

yolo, swag and yogurt. (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 1 month ago | (#47646509)

I typed yolo into a search engine, and it said it stood for
You Only Live Once

I haven't seen that movie, but I did see the sequel with Sean Connery

Swag of course is the ill-gotten gains of a crime, usually burglary
"once a jolly swagman
camped by a bilabong
under the shade of a cooler-bar tree

Re:yolo, swag and yogurt. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 1 month ago | (#47646703)

You're a pal and a cosmonaut.

Who cares about design? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 1 month ago | (#47646253)

Seriously, who cares about design? There are plenty of usability issues in GNU/Linux, but none of them have anything to do with design. You can choose whatever theme you want and it's hard for me to believe that there are users who use the default theme (well, except for my girlfriend).

I'd like to know whether the distro fixes my favorite "avoidable bullshit" bug, namely popup windows stating that some application wants to get access to the keychain, without telling the user which application. Unless a distro fixes this bug and countless others that have to do with real usability, I'm not interested.

Re:Who cares about design? (1)

Chrisq (894406) | about 1 month ago | (#47646309)

Seriously, who cares about design? There are plenty of usability issues in GNU/Linux, but none of them have anything to do with design.

I guess they just evolved then

Re:Who cares about design? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 1 month ago | (#47647413)

Try any KDE distro.

hum (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 1 month ago | (#47646299)

Linux, quantity over quality. All DE's i have tried under linux are buggy, not intuitive and a confusing mess(kde). Linux is made by geeks for geeks. Windows 8/8.1(before udpate1) were pretty damn intuitive and no limit to the amount of items you can pin to the metro unlike windows 7 start menu favorites which is limited. Windows 8.1 update 1 turned the OS into a linux type DE with the clumsy and out of place app title bar and context menu.

Re:hum (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 1 month ago | (#47648239)

>Linux is made by geeks for geeks
Ok.

I still do not get the reason behind it... (1)

Lumpy (12016) | about 1 month ago | (#47646449)

Lubuntu is Elementary OS in every way but with a gigantic repository of software already as a click and drool install.

What are they trying to target as a demographic?

Re:I still do not get the reason behind it... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 1 month ago | (#47646841)

Lubuntu is Elementary OS in every way but with a gigantic repository of software already as a click and drool install.

What are they trying to target as a demographic?

Um...not even close dude. It uses a completely different window manager, its own 'from scratch' panel, and its own everything...it's not even close to Lubuntu.

I'm not saying its better...just that it isn't Lubuntu.

How does the login screen look in this one? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 1 month ago | (#47646463)

Man, i'm really looking forward to seeing the login screen on this distro. New stuff is AWESOME!

Re:How does the login screen look in this one? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 1 month ago | (#47646473)

You can now search in Files using the shortcut “Ctrl + F”.

Wow, such feature.

Re:How does the login screen look in this one? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 1 month ago | (#47646511)

Many icons have moved from a glossy style to a flatter, matte style.

I couldn't live without this feature myself, but that search is also pretty rad.

Yet another "usable" distro (2)

funky_vibes (664942) | about 1 month ago | (#47646499)

Let's see, the number one most common reason to create a distro is "usability" and we've already got hundreds. Red Hat, Mandrake, Suse, Ubuntu to name a few. None of them became as usable as they claim.

Maybe there's something awfully wrong with that recipe, maybe usability comes as a result of other factors, such as choice, determinism, *nix philosophy or any number of other things, which these distros clearly don't focus on.

Open source in general (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 1 month ago | (#47646585)

Open source software is often made freely available at no costs to downloaders and embedders. There is little incentive for these users to pay anything for it, including for support, since the main reason to adopt this software is to not pay at all. The result is that there are few resources for testing or documenting the software and no incentive for the developers to care about the usage by others and actively develop the software outside of their own use cases.

Further aggravating the issue is the claim by activists and open source militants that the software code is reviewed by millions of people as it is freely available to anyone. The fallacy of this claim resides in the lack of interest of anyone to do this. Indeed, who would review other people's code for free or for fun? Vulnerabilities such as the Heartbleed bug are always found by using and probing the software, not by reviewing the code.

Linux is the poster child for the failed open source movement. Always a step behind.

Re:Open source in general (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 1 month ago | (#47646779)

Also, open source developers have an incentive to make their software incomprehensible, unusable and poorly documents. The incentive is this: if no one else can figure out how to actually use the shit except the people who wrote it then they are more likely to be hired or contracted as "consultants" to sort out the horrible mess that is their own software. Open source is like a trojan horse. Some silly autistic "advocate" convinces some suit wearing bean counter that they should use open source for some new project because "free" or buzzword this and that. Inevitably the autismal fanboy can't figure it out and gets in over his head. Then the suits bring in the guys who wrote the awful software as consultants to clean up the "advocate's" mess. Total cost is more than just buying some shit that works. Open Source: never again.

Wish Red Hat 7 had a better interface (2)

walterbyrd (182728) | about 1 month ago | (#47646763)

If you are going to actually work with Linux professionally, you will probably have to use Red Hat.

Red Hat seems determined to force crappy, and unwanted, interface, and other technologies, on it's users. Very Microsoft like in that respect.

Gnome2 is far superior to anything based on Gnome3. And it's hard to see where Systemd is much of an improvement.

I envy home Linux users who get to have a nicer interface.

Re:Wish Red Hat 7 had a better interface (1)

geek (5680) | about 1 month ago | (#47646963)

Um, you know you can just compile or download the packages for these other interfaces and run them on red hat 7 don't you? This isn't exactly hard to do.

Re:Wish Red Hat 7 had a better interface (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 1 month ago | (#47647551)

They are not supported.

Re:Wish Red Hat 7 had a better interface (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 1 month ago | (#47647965)

So what? What does support have to do with a UI?

Re:Wish Red Hat 7 had a better interface (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 1 month ago | (#47646991)

No argument that Gnome 3 is wonky, but if by

work with Linux professionally.

you mean "workstation" then RHEL7 has other desktop options. If you are starting X on your servers you should probably reconsider :)

Re:Wish Red Hat 7 had a better interface (1)

chuckymonkey (1059244) | about 1 month ago | (#47647387)

What we're trying to move towards where I work is RHEL on the server and making use of Docker. The plan is that we'll put some more user friendly OS on the desktop so our users aren't endlessly frustrated by the desktop being shit and let the developers use Docker to create application stack builds. Once they go through the testing and vetting process we'll just push the containers up to the production RHEL servers. This serves two purposes, the people that actually have to interface with the desktop can have something that looks nice like Ubuntu(I get it you don't like Unity, grow up and realize that it's not the horrible end of the world.), Elementary, or some other more desktop oriented distribution that supports Docker. On the other side we get all the excellence that is RHEL on the server side with a nice clean and seamless integration for out developers. It also allows us to keep our developers from needing root or even sudo access because they can do whatever the hell they want with the Docker containers. Once they're vetted for stability and security I honestly don't give a damn how they handle them. I'm very interested in this Atomic Server Red Hat is exploring for this very reason.

Re:Wish Red Hat 7 had a better interface (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 1 month ago | (#47647529)

(1) Yes, horror or horrors, Red Hat is keeping up to date and using new and better ways to do the cruddy old things. Lethargic old farts like you always squirt in your Depends when somebody even talks about changing things up. "You guyth, thtop it!! Give me back my init thcriptth, wah wah! Oopth I thquirted again!"
(2) Gnome 2 is generally accepted to be inferior these days. Gnome 3 had a rough start but it's already way, way better. And it's only getting better.
(3) Systemd is not an improvement? What? Have you even administered several dozen Linux boxes or virtual machines? Ok ok, sorry, have you ever even tried to manage a single Linux box (in your mom's basement or wherever)? Systemd is the cat's ass compared to shitty old init scripts. I'd rather have things just work and be transferrable across systems, rather than spending endless nights screwing around with some ratty old init script. I challenge you to provide even a single non-trivial (i.e. production) example where init scripts are better than systemd.

bad name. Kindergarten OS? (2)

raymorris (2726007) | about 1 month ago | (#47646867)

In the US at least, the word "elementary" means "elementary school" 95% of the time, so that's the association I have with the word "elementary". I'm sure I'm not the only one. It doesn't look like it's actually designed for children, so why in the world would they use that name. Might as well call it Kindergarten OS or Playskool OS.

Re:bad name. Kindergarten OS? (-1)

geek (5680) | about 1 month ago | (#47646971)

Considering their lovefest for Gnome3 and Mac OSX and the way they strip usable features out left and right, their OS is definitely "elementary"

It's basically an OS for Mac OSX envious retards that get confused by minimize buttons and usable menu bars.

Re:bad name. Kindergarten OS? (1)

johnsie (1158363) | about 1 month ago | (#47647307)

Retard isn't a very nice word. I hope you never have children with disabilities.

Re:bad name. Kindergarten OS? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 1 month ago | (#47647477)

Retard isn't a very nice word. I hope you never have children.

There. Better.

Re:bad name. Kindergarten OS? (1)

funky_vibes (664942) | about 1 month ago | (#47647203)

Elementary, my dear Watson.

Re:bad name. Kindergarten OS? (1)

johnsie (1158363) | about 1 month ago | (#47647233)

'Murica

Re:bad name. Kindergarten OS? (1)

nine-times (778537) | about 1 month ago | (#47647285)

In the US at least, the word "elementary" means "elementary school" 95% of the time...

And it's followed by "... my dear Watson," the other 5%.

emphasis on design and usability (2)

mythix (2589549) | about 1 month ago | (#47647019)

"emphasis on design and usability which draws a lot of comparisons to Mac OS X"

I've been switching between win/linux/osx on a daily basis for a couple of years now, and I honestly have no clue where the idea comes from that OSX is superior when it comes to usability...

It's even the OS with the weirdest UI quirks IMO...

Website Design (1)

gauauu (649169) | about 1 month ago | (#47648019)

If their website's design [elementaryos.org] is anything like their OS design, count me out. I'm not sure how that's supposed to be usable and elegant.

To see a sample screenshot of the desktop, I click on a tiny thumbnail of a seashell? Or a pink feathery-looking thing? Why are those icons the only way to see screenshots of the thing? And the majority of the text on the page is nothing more than flowery text explaining that it's open-source. Where's any actual description of what makes it different from other distributions?

Not that there's anything horribly wrong about all that, but for an OS that's supposed to be all about design, usability and elegance, their website looks like a fluff PR piece. It sure doesn't inspire me to want to try it.

(Although, to be honest, I'm happy that the main page of their project actually tells what the project is, instead a list of bullets about news items, which seems to be the case with most open-source projects)

Re:Website Design (1)

Blakey Rat (99501) | about 1 month ago | (#47648199)

I'm also pretty sure:

Luna has been engineered from the ground up to be light on its toes. It starts up quickly, logs in instantly, and uses the bare minimum of resources so that your apps enjoy a speed boost as well. And with Luna, you get the same Linux foundation chosen for the worldâ(TM)s fastest supercomputers.

is a flat-out lie, considering it's using the Linux kernel. Unless they're claiming they had an engineer re-examine every line of code in the Linux kernel "from the ground up".

Re:Website Design (1)

WilyCoder (736280) | about 1 month ago | (#47648385)

thats funny, because i went to their site and could not find any screenshots of this OS claiming to be very well designed. and then you tell me about the seashell picture, which they do not indicate will lead to a screenshot.

Re:Website Design (1)

gauauu (649169) | about 1 month ago | (#47648471)

thats funny, because i went to their site and could not find any screenshots of this OS claiming to be very well designed. and then you tell me about the seashell picture, which they do not indicate will lead to a screenshot.

Believe me, it took me a long time to find that screenshot.

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