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Tesla Removes Mileage Limits On Drive Unit Warranty Program

timothy posted about a month ago | from the 90-percent-of-the-cost-of-my-entire-car dept.

Transportation 174

Ars Technica reports that Elon Musk today wrote that Tesla will remove mileage limits on its warranty policy for all Tesla Model S drive units. The warranty, which will still span eight years, won't have a cap on the number of owners for each vehicle. People who purchased Teslas before today were told that the warranty period for the drive unit expired after eight years or once the car logged over 125,000 miles. The revised warranty applies to new vehicles and Model S cars that are already on the road. The article mentions that quite a few Tesla owners have had to have their drive units replaced; out of warranty, that runs about $15,000. Musk's announcement acknowledges that the change may cost the company some money, but says he's "confident it will work out well in the long run."

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Driving is bad for your health. (-1, Flamebait)

For a Free Internet (1594621) | about a month ago | (#47682409)

Let us be healthy and well together in the new green future by jogginf or dogsledding instead of driving and by drinking raw vegetable juices and practicing acupuncture and other quack stuff that is so holeiustique.

So there is a problem... (4, Insightful)

sinij (911942) | about a month ago | (#47682417)

So there is a problem and they are avoiding recall?

Re:So there is a problem... (5, Insightful)

rmdingler (1955220) | about a month ago | (#47682449)

No sir.

There's a problem and they're handling it immediately and responsibly,

instead of pursuing the GM/Toyota strategy of ignoring it and hoping it goes away.

Re:So there is a problem... (4, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about a month ago | (#47682665)

No sir.

There's a problem and they're handling it immediately and responsibly,

instead of pursuing the GM/Toyota strategy of ignoring it and hoping it goes away.

GM hardly ignored their problem - they actively tried to cover it up, probably all the way back to 2005 or 2006, maybe even with government help, especially once they became Government Motors:

GM Misses Red Flags From Rental Car Canaries on Crashes [bloomberg.com]

Re:So there is a problem... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a month ago | (#47682691)

Rental companies have this annoying habit of using steel cable to connect both keys and a tracking tag. You cannot disconnect them without tools & some fiddling or something strong enough to cute the cable.

Combine that with a hair trigger ignition and you have an accident waiting to happen.

Re:So there is a problem... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a month ago | (#47682701)

Rental companies have this annoying habit of using steel cable to connect both keys and a tracking tag. You cannot disconnect them without tools & some fiddling or something strong enough to cute the cable.

Combine that with a hair trigger ignition and you have an accident waiting to happen.

Rental car companies do that with ALL models of cars they rent.

Re:So there is a problem... (4, Insightful)

Chuckstar (799005) | about a month ago | (#47683189)

The point was that only the GM cars have the problem that heavy stuff attached to the key can turn your car off in the middle of driving down the road. It's especially a problem with rental cars, because they have heavy stuff attached to the keys as a matter of course.

Re:So there is a problem... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a month ago | (#47683907)

Rental companies have this annoying habit of using steel cable to connect both keys and a tracking tag. You cannot disconnect them without tools & some fiddling or something strong enough to cute the cable.

Combine that with a hair trigger ignition and you have an accident waiting to happen.

Well, thank you for pointing out the fact that the real problem lies with who manufactures a "hair trigger ignition".

I mean we wouldn't want to make some bullshit excuse about steel cables or anything...

Re:So there is a problem... (1)

wisnoskij (1206448) | about a month ago | (#47682453)

Things failing after the warranty period is not a problem, as that is expected end of life time.

Re:So there is a problem... (4, Insightful)

sinij (911942) | about a month ago | (#47682601)

$15000 is within realm of new "crate engine", needing that at only 125,000 miles would be considered a serious quality defect with a traditional auto. If memory serves me right, most recent example was BMW nikasil engine block issue.

Re:So there is a problem... (3, Interesting)

Ted Cabeen (4119) | about a month ago | (#47682967)

The $15k charge is a theoretical charge back-calculated from insurance settlements. It does not include any core rebate for returning the old drive train. Since no owner has owned the car for even the current 4 year warranty, we have no information on what Tesla would charge for a drive train replacement, swap or any other non-accident generated repair.

Re:So there is a problem... (2, Insightful)

beelsebob (529313) | about a month ago | (#47683173)

Not really, in fact, 125,000 miles is a pretty long way after you'd expect to see major issues with most of the seals on the engine, and quite possibly complete failure on some cars.

Re:So there is a problem... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a month ago | (#47683261)

Yes, really. Amazing what mental hoops people must jump through to safe face on Tesla's behalf.

Re:So there is a problem... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a month ago | (#47683713)

for a performance engine, 125,000 is a bloody long way.

Re:So there is a problem... (1)

AK Marc (707885) | about a month ago | (#47683755)

Depending on the performance you are looking for, 1/4 mile is sufficient.

Every American car I've owned, they've never made it to the end of the powertrain warranty before the transmission blew. Only 1 of the three was covered under warranty. The others were blamed on driver error or poor maintenance.

There are (1)

clay_buster (521703) | about a month ago | (#47683845)

125,000 miles would be considered a serious quality defect with a traditional auto. If memory serves me right, most recent example was BMW nikasil engine block issue.

Owners of early 2000s Dodge Caravans and Ford Windstars might disagree. Plenty got less than 100,000 before developing issues that cost more to repair than the value of the vehicle.

Re:There are (1)

Bing Tsher E (943915) | about a month ago | (#47683897)

It's okay to cherry-pick a few lemon models of conventional cars, to compare to the Tesla. That makes the Tesla look more reliable.

Re:So there is a problem... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a month ago | (#47683935)

$15000 is within realm of new "crate engine", needing that at only 125,000 miles would be considered a serious quality defect with a traditional auto. If memory serves me right, most recent example was BMW nikasil engine block issue.

If a car needs a new motor at 125,000 miles, and the manufacturer warranty has expired, that is not any sort of quality defect. It is a quality or reliability issue for the company, but unless the manufacturer is going to extend the warranty, then they expect it to be broken by then too.

That's why they're not fixing it for free by then, as they feel you HAVE gotten the useful life out of their product. Anything beyond that is their reputation speaking only. Sure, that speaks to quality and MAYBE affects brand loyalty, but if it affected them THAT badly, they would extend the warranties on all cars and all components. They don't, and won't.

Re:So there is a problem... (1, Insightful)

Kjella (173770) | about a month ago | (#47682667)

If it came through the warranty period alright, I don't see that there's any problem. Tesla has probably just figured out this hits relatively few but heavy users and ambassadors who'll be happy to get a new battery instead of being hit with a $15,000 bill and continue driving sales. After all, 125,000/8 = 15,625 miles is more than the average US driver goes per year (13,476 miles) and Teslas have probably not been bought by those making regular long hauls.

It does create a rather perverse incentive to drive your Tesla to battery failure before the warranty is up though - say a coast-to-coast supercharger road trip or three on free electricity. I don't know if they'll replace it with a brand new or a refurb but either way it'll be worth more than with a 7.5 year old battery. As long as they're in massive growth sales 5-8 years ago are so much lower that it might not matter though, right now it's all about expansion.

Re:So there is a problem... (4, Insightful)

Lumpy (12016) | about a month ago | (#47682711)

Tesla is sending a message.

Their message is, "we are not GM, we care about the customer instead of trying to ignore and rip off the customer"

If a company stands behind their product they offer a very long life warranty. If they know their product is crap, you get a short warranty. There is a reason that GM cars come with 36,000 mile 3 year warranties..

Re:So there is a problem... (5, Interesting)

Sorny (521429) | about a month ago | (#47682841)

Tesla's Warranty is a bit better than what GM offers, true. However, it is not hugely better excepting the unlimited mileage for the powertrain, and 8 year battery warranty. That said, I've got some concerns with Tesla's battery warranty being that I live in MN.

"In addition, damage resulting from the following activities are not covered under this Battery
Limited Warranty:
â Exposing the vehicle to ambient temperatures above 140ÂF (60ÂC) or below -22ÂF (-30ÂC) for
more than 24 hours at a time;"

That bit scares me. -22 F temps are normal for us in the winter, and I don't heat my garage. Thus, the car would be exposed to such temps for over 24hrs at least once a year. Kind of puts a crimp in my plans to buy a Tesla 3 when it comes out; I can already make the justification to buy a model S based on my driving needs, but I refuse to pay more in car payments than my mortgage.

From Chevy's website:

Warranty Coverage
Bumper-to-Bumper (including tires):
Coverage is for the first 3 years or 36,000 miles, whichever comes first.
Powertrain:
Coverage is for the first 5 years or 100,000 miles, whichever comes first.
Sheet Metal:
Corrosion coverage is for the first 3 years or 36,000 miles, whichever comes first.
Rust-through coverage is for the first 6 years or 100,000 miles, whichever comes first.

From Tesla:

Subject to separate coverage for certain parts and the exclusions and limitations described in this
New Vehicle Limited Warranty, the Basic Vehicle Limited Warranty covers the repair or
replacement necessary to correct defects in the materials or workmanship of any parts
manufactured or supplied by Tesla that occur under normal use for a period of 4 years or 50,000
miles (80,000 km), whichever comes first.

Supplemental Restraint System Limited Warranty
Subject to the exclusions and limitations described in this New Vehicle Limited Warranty, the SRS
Limited Warranty covers the repair or replacement necessary to correct defects in the materials or
workmanship of the vehicleâ(TM)s seat belts or air bag system manufactured or supplied by Tesla that
occur under normal use for a period of 5 years or 60,000 miles (100,000 km), whichever comes
first.

Re:So there is a problem... (2, Interesting)

pslytely psycho (1699190) | about a month ago | (#47682983)

How difficult and expensive would it be to put rudimentary heating in your garage for just those (hopefully not too many) days per year that this would be a problem?

Here in eastern Washington the temperature rarely gets that low (maybe once per decade) but I do a lot of work in my garage, fortunately as it is attached I just ran a four inch branch off the central heating and opened it about an hour before I wanted to work. It wasn't toasty, but it was bearable and added almost nothing to my heating bill.

Re:So there is a problem... (4, Funny)

beltsbear (2489652) | about a month ago | (#47683283)

Leave the Tesla plugged in, it will take care of itself.

Re:So there is a problem... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a month ago | (#47683007)

Assuming you have an insulated garage door, and an attached garage, it's likely your home will add 20-30 degrees to a -22F (outside) temperature environment in your garage. Homes leak a lot of heat, and all the walls/doors to your garage leak it into your garage. There is also no wind chill in your garage.

I invite you to put a thermometer in your garage and track it. I don't think you will exceed the Tesla specifications unless you leave the garage door open 24x7x365.

Re:So there is a problem... (1)

cyn1c77 (928549) | about a month ago | (#47683125)

Assuming you have an insulated garage door, and an attached garage, it's likely your home will add 20-30 degrees to a -22F (outside) temperature environment in your garage. Homes leak a lot of heat, and all the walls/doors to your garage leak it into your garage. There is also no wind chill in your garage.

I invite you to put a thermometer in your garage and track it. I don't think you will exceed the Tesla specifications unless you leave the garage door open 24x7x365.

You are making the assumption that his garage is connected to his house and that he has an insulated garage door.

I have lived in houses that had neither of these features.

Also, I think his point was that he doesn't want to pay $80K for a car and more problems to worry about than if he spent $30K.

Re:So there is a problem... (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about a month ago | (#47683367)

Then he shouldn't buy one. We're all agreed. For those of you in places where it gets below -22, and where you will consider buying an 80k car but not putting minor heat and an insulated door into your garage, best not to buy one. For the few remaining people where that doesn't apply, you can still consider getting a Tesla.

Re:So there is a problem... (2)

AK Marc (707885) | about a month ago | (#47683777)

You are making the assumption that his garage is connected to his house and that he has an insulated garage door.

I have lived in houses that had neither of these features.

In Minnesota? Insulated garage doors is $10 of styrofoam. And I've seen lots of detached garages, in warmer climes. But in the cold areas, people don't like to have to run outside to get something from the garage. Everyone would insulate the garage walls as if it were a house wall, and the door would be insulated with PS foam at a minimum.

Re:So there is a problem... (4, Informative)

Ted Cabeen (4119) | about a month ago | (#47683017)

The -22F is not a problem, as long as the car is plugged in when left for prolonged periods. At well above that temperature, the battery management system will kick in and heat the battery to keep it within safe temperatures. Now, technically, they could probably disclaim coverage for that, but it seems unlikely if the battery management system does what it's supposed to do.

Re:So there is a problem... (3, Insightful)

Richy_T (111409) | about a month ago | (#47683231)

Actually, it sounds more like drive unit failures are happening more often than expected and are so expensive that it could cause them some serious bad press so they are eating the cost (which is likely actually a small fraction of what the out of warranty cost to the customer would be) of folding it into the warranty.

Not that I'm ragging on Tesla or anything. I just think your analysis may be the reverse of the actual situation

Re:So there is a problem... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a month ago | (#47683361)

As an owner of a Model S who lives in a place that gets some good winters, the coldness isn't really a problem if you can plug your car in at some point. The car's battery has both a heating and cooling system and will regulate the temperature automatically. See this post for more information:

http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/showthread.php/25127-Must-Read-The-best-battery-management-when-cold# [teslamotorsclub.com]

Re:So there is a problem... (1)

AaronW (33736) | about a month ago | (#47683491)

Assuming that the car is plugged in to charge at night it will heat the battery to keep the temperature at an acceptable level.

Re:So there is a problem... (1)

Rei (128717) | about a month ago | (#47683667)

You live somewhere where daily highs in your garage below -30C are "normal" (implying highs of -40 to -50 outside)? Where do you live, the freaking moon? And you'd store your car suchly without plugging it in?

Re:So there is a problem... (2)

AK Marc (707885) | about a month ago | (#47683773)

That bit scares me. -22 F temps are normal for us in the winter, and I don't heat my garage.

Odd, in Alaska, nearly everyone had a heated garage. Though the difference between a garage at 55 and 75 is about $1000 a month, so they aren't kept toasty warm, they will still get the car out of -22 every 10 hours on work days.

Re:So there is a problem... (1)

AK Marc (707885) | about a month ago | (#47683763)

Tesla looked at it and said "the costs of extending the warranty are likely low because the problems are low, so we can extend the warranty and still hit our warranty budget". The added press was, of course, considered, but they have been more reliable than people expected.

Are there any reasons... (3, Interesting)

cosmin_c (3381765) | about a month ago | (#47682469)

... that can be given that Elon Musk isn't one of the best humans out there? Let me elaborate a bit. In an age of chasing profits and cut-throat competition and where the most ruthless are getting rich, there are some people chasing another type of enrichment. And this comes after giving up on patents. I don't know this man, but it'd be an honour to shake his hand. I simply got nothing that could do justice. Nikola Tesla would indeed be proud.

Re:Are there any reasons... (3, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | about a month ago | (#47682489)

You clearly have never had to deal with the Hell that is PayPal. He's still deep in the Karma hole for that one.

Re:Are there any reasons... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a month ago | (#47682561)

I see Elon Musk as a sort of Pablo Escobar, Gaining insane profits over crooked system and other's suffering, Who then tries to create a new PR image of himself as a great man. Remember, I don't think ether one is doing it for cathartic reason but instead to boost their egos through better public image hoping to secure a good spot in the history books. Just like Carnegie and Rockefeller...

Re:Are there any reasons... (3, Insightful)

DexterIsADog (2954149) | about a month ago | (#47682735)

I see Elon Musk as a sort of Pablo Escobar, Gaining insane profits over crooked system and other's suffering, Who then tries to create a new PR image of himself as a great man. Remember, I don't think ether one is doing it for cathartic reason but instead to boost their egos through better public image hoping to secure a good spot in the history books. Just like Carnegie and Rockefeller...

You clearly don't know shit about Carnegie if you can compare Musk with that bastard.

Re:Are there any reasons... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a month ago | (#47682943)

Carnegie build rail roads infrastructure with laws of capitalism of his time and he was a big industrialist in the second Industrial Revolution. While Elon Musk building EV infrastructure, so he is big industrialist industrialist of 21st century in the third Industrial Revolution.

Re:Are there any reasons... (1)

Anonymous Coward | about a month ago | (#47683567)

Actually, Carnegie used the monopolistic rail laws of his time to build his empire. It wasn't capitalism that lead to the monopolies but rather government regulation. Also, once again I'm saying he got rich by abusing people and a corrupt system to gain large quantities of wealth. They used this wealth to create a new image around them. AKA Carnegie hall and other philanthropic endeavor, since once image and place in history have now become more valuable then money due to their large quanties of wealth. As far as Carnegie's abuse of unions I think that is more a result of the times we live in then a difference in morality.

The big difference between Elon Musk and the others is he might actually make the world a better place.

Re:Are there any reasons... (1)

PopeRatzo (965947) | about a month ago | (#47682767)

I see Elon Musk as a sort of Pablo Escobar, Gaining insane profits over crooked system and other's suffering

You mean all the suffering ebay users? Oh, the humanity!

Re:Are there any reasons... (1)

wisnoskij (1206448) | about a month ago | (#47682975)

Which should not be underestimated. Paypal, as a matter of routine break the law separating people from their money so they can blackmail them for more information/linked accounts.

Re:Are there any reasons... (1)

NoNonAlphaCharsHere (2201864) | about a month ago | (#47682509)

And, like Disney, for example, 30 years after the founder dies, the corporation he left will be an example of soulless tincture of evil. Watching and waiting for this to happen to Apple next.

Re:Are there any reasons... (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about a month ago | (#47682571)

Did you just seriously compare Steve Jobs to Elon Musk?

Steve Jobs wasn't exactly a saint. He redefined "walled garden". But if you're IN the walled garden, I can see how you'd be deluded in to thinking that's ok.

Re:Are there any reasons... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a month ago | (#47682773)

The KoolAid is free in the garden! Come one, come all (well, if you are in the garden)!

Re:Are there any reasons... (1)

Bing Tsher E (943915) | about a month ago | (#47683909)

Walled gardens, and Stockholm Syndrome comes to mind.

Re:Are there any reasons... (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about a month ago | (#47682513)

Elon Musk is the United States' greatest african-american.

Re:Are there any reasons... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a month ago | (#47682579)

What? I thought it was a cologne for men!

Re:Are there any reasons... (1)

rmdingler (1955220) | about a month ago | (#47682657)

African-American?

While not specifically a cologne, per say, it is the dark (intended) fantasy of many a housewife of European descent.

Re:Are there any reasons... (0)

alen (225700) | about a month ago | (#47682531)

last i read on their website you have to pay something like $600 for an annual service for your tesla to have it checked out to keep your warranty

this is just recurring revenue for musk for years to come

Re:Are there any reasons... (1)

hondo77 (324058) | about a month ago | (#47682611)

Compared to the cost of maintaining even a very reliable gas-powered car like a Honda Accord [cars.com] , $600/yr looks like a bargain.

Re:Are there any reasons... (1)

Frankie70 (803801) | about a month ago | (#47682709)

How does it go more than 600$/year for you for maintaining an Accord? How many miles do you drive?

Re:Are there any reasons... (1)

Firethorn (177587) | about a month ago | (#47683037)

Oil changes might only add up to ~$150/year. Figuring dealer pricing for the other fluids, break pads, and such add up quick even if they're not routine.

Re: Are there any reasons... (5, Informative)

Zachariah Day (2882443) | about a month ago | (#47682637)

You read wrong; the service is not necessary to keep the warranty.

Are there any reasons... (4, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | about a month ago | (#47682621)

I have enormous respect for Elon Musk, but don't mistake enlightened self interest for altruism.

Musk is a very successful and brilliant business person. I just think he also understands that customers appreciate being treated with respect and integrity. It doesn't hurt that he clearly believes in building the best product(s) possible, relying on innovations to place him squarely ahead of the entrenched players (whether that's NASA/Boeing/ULA, or GM/Ford.) His particular brand of greed is good for nearly everyone, but don't mistake it for something other than greed.

Re:Are there any reasons... (1)

DigiShaman (671371) | about a month ago | (#47683271)

Like Steve Jobs in that he delivered a product that people would like and provided excellent customer service. For all his personal flaws, it's leaders like him, Musk, and Ford that paved the way towards American exceptionalism. But the real take-away from these men isn't that they're rare, but that we all have the capacity to emulate them however small or big in the market; be it in a small town restaurant, or fortune 500 company. America, and the rest of the world for that matter could learn a lot from them in how they value their customer.

Re:Are there any reasons... (1)

Bing Tsher E (943915) | about a month ago | (#47683913)

Now, if Jobs had just collected a $10,000 per unit subsidy from the government (or scaled equivalent per Apple unit sold) he'd be even MORE like Musk.

Re:Are there any reasons... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a month ago | (#47682627)

... that can be given that Elon Musk isn't one of the best humans out there?

Let me elaborate a bit. In an age of chasing profits and cut-throat competition and where the most ruthless are getting rich, there are some people chasing another type of enrichment. And this comes after giving up on patents. I don't know this man, but it'd be an honour to shake his hand. I simply got nothing that could do justice. Nikola Tesla would indeed be proud.

Why do you assume his practices are bad for profits? Maybe they're not.

Re:Are there any reasons... (3, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about a month ago | (#47682645)

More like damage control if you ask me.

From an engineering standpoint though, how can you screw up a electric motor connected to a fixed one speed transmission?
That Edmunds needed THREE replacement units within 30,000 miles.
Let's not pronounce Henry Ford, the second coming, as yet.

Re:Are there any reasons... (3, Insightful)

rmdingler (1955220) | about a month ago | (#47682687)

People fuck up.

Things go unexpectedly wrong as a matter of course in everyday life, let alone in the midst of innovation, since redefining the norm is a process fraught with a high failure rate.

Owning it, and retroactively covering models no longer affected by factory warranty? That's the kind of shit you can easily get behind.

Re:Are there any reasons... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a month ago | (#47683663)

"Elon Musk chose to do the only thing that wouldn't result in his company getting so much bad press and negative reviews that his products would be radioactive."

Ah yes, let's fellate him thoroughly, and casually imply that he's probably the best thing to happen to the world since Jesus H. Christ tap-danced o'er the waves!

The only possible response to an engineering fuck-up like this - the only response that wouldn't result in his entire company and investment sinking like the Titanic - is the one he's chosen. People fuck up, yes. But when you're the new kid on the block, trying to disrupt a major established industry - you can't afford to fuck up. If you do, you have to make such a spectacle of over-reacting that you... well, you become Elon Musk.

That is all. Do not confuse "damage control" with "being the most amazing guy ever and doing this stuff because he just, like, loves people and stuff."

Re:Are there any reasons... (1)

ArchieBunker (132337) | about a month ago | (#47683229)

Well there is quite a bit more equipment between the battery and electric motor. Not quite like the old days of controlling the speed with a rheostat. That said for $15K you could buy a brand new car or a pretty nice used one.

Re:Are there any reasons... (2)

WindBourne (631190) | about a month ago | (#47683327)

LOL. You should have read a bit more.
2 of those were changed because edmunds THOUGHT that they MIGHT hear a rattle and that it was the drive unit. Basically, only one was real, and it was for the gearbox.

Re:Are there any reasons... (2)

jrumney (197329) | about a month ago | (#47682653)

He is trying to build up a company from nothing to compete with the big 3 in just a few years. Having rumors of expensive repair bills looming at the end of the warranty period is not conducive to building market share, so this is nothing more than a sensible business decision (assuming only a small minority of drive units are actually failing).

Re:Are there any reasons... (1)

future assassin (639396) | about a month ago | (#47682705)

Well is commons sense what he is doing. You give the customer what they want and more and they will come back to you and give you moar. So do the opposite of what the big companies are doing.

Re:Are there any reasons... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a month ago | (#47682723)

No, this is how sole prepriators run their business. It's the asshole robber baron CEO's that dont give a flying shit about the company other than their golden parachute that cause the current scumbaggery that is the corporate world.

Microsoft flourished under Gates, its dying rapidly under everyone else. Same will happen to Apple.

Re:Are there any reasons... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a month ago | (#47682937)

Wow... you're fucking disgusting. Why don't you just suck his dick? One of the best humans out there? He makes an expensive toy for rich pricks, but he's sure got you fooled.

Re:Are there any reasons... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a month ago | (#47683329)

Well, I guess that poor cocksuckers like you will have to wait.

Re:Are there any reasons... (1)

Noah Haders (3621429) | about a month ago | (#47683425)

looooooooool good troll man.

... that can be given that Elon Musk isn't one of the best humans out there?

looooooooool

To make it clear (3, Informative)

Ecuador (740021) | about a month ago | (#47682497)

Because the summary sort of makes it sound like a lot of people had to pay for a $15000 replacement: The article says that many people have had to change their drive unit. It does not say specifically that they had to change it out of warranty and out of pocket. Given how new the Model S is and that the existing policy was for 125,000 miles anyway, I suspect it would be very few if any that were adversely affected by the old policy. Musk says they have to stand by the word that electric motors are fundamentally more reliable and the cost to the company is the increase in reserves for dry units that they will need to cover the new warranty since it is applied retroactively.

... aaand reading my comment (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a month ago | (#47682703)

after I posted, it is not very legible. "dry units"? Sorry!

Re:To make it clear (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about a month ago | (#47683337)

What is a "drive unit"? It is a fucking electric car, it doesn't have a "drive unit", it has four electric motors at its wheels and some electronics to send some amperes through them and drain the battery.

Re:To make it clear (4, Informative)

AaronW (33736) | about a month ago | (#47683533)

The drive unit is a combination of the single electric motor, gear reduction, differential and inverter and axles. It's all a single unit that can be quickly replaced. As Elon stated in his last earnings call, most of the problems were due to some cables that were tucked up in there coming loose and making noise. Before finding out that that was the root cause they just replaced the drive unit because it could be done quickly. Now it turns out all they do is apply some zip ties to fix the problem. The car is fairly modular and should be fairly easy to work on, especially since there's no engine in the way of everything. Things like power steering, coolant pumps, AC, etc. are all easily accessible after removing the frunk plastic tub or the plastic panel under the front of the car.

When I have taken my Tesla in for a problem they don't fool around but try to address it as quickly as possible. All of the issues I've had with my car, an early model S, have been addressed by later versions of the car.

Here's a picture of the drive unit: http://arstechnica.com/cars/20... [arstechnica.com]

Battery (2)

kqc7011 (525426) | about a month ago | (#47682547)

If it included the battery then that might mean something. As it is now, there is just a low percentage of every needing the coverage. No real cost to Tesla, lots of good P.R. but not much else.

Re:Battery (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a month ago | (#47682573)

It's PR for the drivetrain too... this will hopefully make other manufacturers take note---is there any particularly good reason my Toyota's warranty expired after 3-years-or-36k-miles?

Re:Battery (1)

uncqual (836337) | about a month ago | (#47682821)

How much did Toyota get for your car vs. what Tesla gets for each Model S (counting the taxpayer's contribution)?

My Toyota is running fine after over ten years and I don't even bother with most "scheduled maintenance". Obviously oil and filter every so often (much less frequently than recommended), air filters, tires, batteries as needed. Only failure all those years has been I had to clean the MAF sensor to clear a 'check engine' light (did that myself). Some day I may change the spark plugs, belts, and hoses -- but so far no need.

Actually, every car I've purchased has been brand new well known Japanese brand badged and I've only once had anything eligible for a warranty repair. That was the original battery that went out just a couple months before its warranty expired -- and the dealer suggested that since I would have to pay the prorated replacement price I might just want to do down to the mom-and-pop battery place a couple miles away and save some money (which I did and did).

Of course, an anecdote isn't data and YMMV (there have been some lemons in the brands I've bought - I've just been lucky not to get one of these models).

Re:Battery (5, Informative)

FuzzMaster (596994) | about a month ago | (#47682577)

If it included the battery then that might mean something.

The 85 kWh battery is already warranted for 8 years and unlimited miles.

Re:Battery (1)

WindBourne (631190) | about a month ago | (#47683301)

Actually, it was for the battery. Now it is the entire powertrain. The battery, the gear box; the motor; the inverter (which is with the drive unit).
My guess is that down the road, they will change this to be 10-12 years, once it is realized that their work has high quality and will stand up far better than an ICE will.

Not a fan of Tesla but this is pretty awesome (4, Insightful)

JoeyRox (2711699) | about a month ago | (#47682563)

If only other manufacturers would learn that stepping in front of an issue is always better than being run over by it, both for total cost and, more importantly, reputation.

8 years or 125k miles (1)

Anonymous Coward | about a month ago | (#47682575)

So divide mileage required to get out of warranty [125,000] by the number of months the vehicle has been available on the market [26, since June 2012], you get a minimum possible average of just over 4800 miles/month. Unless of course the article mentions other ways to get to the point of being out of warranty. [8 years or older, or over 125,000 miles for those that didn't read TFS.]

Re:8 years or 125k miles (2)

WindBourne (631190) | about a month ago | (#47683289)

No, you obviously did NOT read TFS. 8 years/125K miles is for the 60 KWH pack. For the 85 KWH, it is 8 years and infinite milage. Go ahead and divide infinity by 96.

Re:8 years or 125k miles (1)

Rick in China (2934527) | about a month ago | (#47683577)

I don't think you understood the comment. I had the same question...

The point is, people are driving these cars an average of almost 5k miles a month in order to get out of warranty? That's a LOT of driving.

Re:8 years or 125k miles (1)

Anonymous Coward | about a month ago | (#47683585)

No need to divide infinity, as the car isn't capable of it. Even if you drive it non-stop at 60mph for 8 years, you can't go over 4.5 million miles. In real life, you won't hit even 5% of that.

Re:8 years or 125k miles (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a month ago | (#47683823)

My previous AC comment was that under the *old* warranty, you'd had to have been driving almost 5000 miles per month to have exceeded the mileage warranty by this point in time [and thus having had to pay the $15k to replace the drive unit [if it had failed]].

thanks, corporate welfare recipient company (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about a month ago | (#47682671)

Sweet, since they long ago removed limits on their stock price's manipulation.

Re:thanks, corporate welfare recipient company (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a month ago | (#47683285)

Wow. get the GOP's cock out of your mouth. They have obviously been pounding your brain into fucking mush.

not-so-rare Musk trifecta in play (4, Funny)

Gothmolly (148874) | about a month ago | (#47682677)

First we had the smug "NASA is boring, Elon Musk is awesome" article, and now this. If we hit 3 articles in 1 day, I think it becomes a national holiday!

Re:not-so-rare Musk trifecta in play (4, Funny)

ColdWetDog (752185) | about a month ago | (#47682785)

Look you. It's hard to be a fanboi around here. First it was Apple, then Jobs had to go and die on us. Then it was Google which somehow managed to go all Evil in the space of a few years.

There always were a few twisted folk who thought Gates was the second coming but we mostly ignored them except to use them as the butt of some pretty nasty jokes.

Who else? Nokia? Blackberry? Motorola? H-P ???????

So 'ol Elon shows up in a cool car and a rocketship. Man, that's pretty close to God hood around here. Car AND Rocket Scientist analogies.

He's all we've got.

Re:not-so-rare Musk trifecta in play (1)

wisnoskij (1206448) | about a month ago | (#47682959)

First it was Apple, then Jobs had to go and die on us.

And there was the whole being a huge raging dick since the moment he was born and feeding off the the talent and innovation of others.

Re:not-so-rare Musk trifecta in play (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a month ago | (#47682963)

Uhh... Linus Tearvalds and Richard Staleman? Surely you didn't forget about the Linux fanbois (some would say zealots) that populate this website. Granted, Elon may have more broad appeal, but his name is gay, he's from South Africa, and he's a pasty-face bastard.

Re:not-so-rare Musk trifecta in play (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a month ago | (#47682977)

Don't forget solar to all, rich and poor!

Re:not-so-rare Musk trifecta in play (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a month ago | (#47683683)

"The Dude abides. I don't know about you, but I take comfort in that - it's good knowin' he's out there. The Dude. Takin' 'er easy for all us sinners. Shoosh. I sure hope he makes the finals."

Re:not-so-rare Musk trifecta in play (2)

WindBourne (631190) | about a month ago | (#47683279)

Gads, you must have REALLY lost major money on Tesla and Solar City by shorting them.
The fact is, that this man is making a massive change to our society.
I hate to think of what you would say about ppl like Einstein.

Meh. the time limit is still there (1)

m00sh (2538182) | about a month ago | (#47683075)

So they removed the mileage limit but they still have the time limit of 8 years.

It's not like people are going to use a Tesla car to go cross-country driving. They have to charge the car after use and so has to remain near a viable charge station. So, the removing the mileage limit seems pointless.

If they removed the time limit of 8 years, then it would be something.

I don't see this as a big deal. Sure sounds good but the service centers probably realized that the mileage of the cars coming in for service was nowhere close to getting to warranty mileage and just dropped them.

Re:Meh. the time limit is still there (1)

WindBourne (631190) | about a month ago | (#47683275)

First off, superchargers will cover America and Western Europe within another 1.5 years.
Secondly, Tesla is coming out with a battery swap that will allow you to rent a battery that allows for 500 MPC, with a 90 second battery swap. Of course, when it is empty, it will either take another battery swap (costing as much as a tank of gas), OR it will take about 2 hours at a super charger for a full tank, or about 1 hour for 300-350 MPC. That would mean that you can do 800 miles with only a 1 hour stop. Not bad.

Re:Meh. the time limit is still there (0)

Noah Haders (3621429) | about a month ago | (#47683447)

what? superchargers are dead. nobody cares. I have never seen a single one in the wild, and I don't know of anybody thinking of building one. battery swap is dead. better place died. battery rental is dead. and why would somebody pay $$$ for a 500 mile range? it's like me saying I want a phone with 50 days of battery charge. no thanks, I would prefer a phone that's not a battery strapped to a brick.

Re:Meh. the time limit is still there (3, Interesting)

AaronW (33736) | about a month ago | (#47683559)

I see superchargers popping up all over the place. They're becoming quite common along the east and west coasts. They're not needed for in-town driving since most people charge at home. The battery swap will cost about the same as a full tank of gas and includes swapping your original fully-charged battery back on the return trip. Using the supercharger is free forever.

I've used the superchargers numerous times and they were not a major inconvenience. When I drove up to Lake Tahoe from the Bay Area I stopped at the one in Folsom. I went and grabbed a burger and by the time I was done eating and using the restroom the car was ready to go and it cost me nothing to use.

Every morning I start out with a full battery. It takes me 5 seconds to plug in at night and 5 to unplug in the morning. I spend far less time charging than I ever did waiting in line to fill up with gas at Costco. Besides, I don't have to stay with the car while it's charging. Usually there's other stuff to do within easy walking distance. In 30 minutes I get 170 miles of range. They're generally only needed on long trips, not for everyday driving since it's more convenient to charge overnight at home. Even charging at home I average over 50 miles of range per hour of charging (with a dedicated 80A 240V charger).

The chargers are popping up all over the place as can be seen on Tesla's interactive map: http://www.teslamotors.com/sup... [teslamotors.com]

Better Place died because nobody wanted the EVs that they worked with. Their range was also quite limited and the Better Place setup was quite expensive. With the Tesla I have a choice. I can pay to fill up in 90 seconds or spend nothing and wait a while.

My last electricity bill for around 1500 miles of driving was $62.57 for 39 days, and I'll admit I tend to exceed the speed limit and accelerate hard, so I'm not taking it easy either. Next month I'm driving up to Seattle and it will cost me $0 in electricity.

Re:Meh. the time limit is still there (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a month ago | (#47683701)

I went and grabbed a burger and by the time I was done eating and using the restroom the car was ready to go and it cost me nothing to use.

Man, that's great. I sure am glad my tax money is going to a good cause like saving rich kids - with 80 grand to drop on futuristic toys - a few bucks on fuel costs.

That's truly a great step forward for America!

I think Tesla go for high end fleet vehicles (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a month ago | (#47683435)

Elon is trying to make a new car company from scratch.... with electric cars, using lithium ion batteries, made of aluminum. Many people now expect cars to last for a really long time, especially expensive cars. There are so many new things that can go wrong... On the other hand, the Tesla Model S, has a high price, but has a low fuel cost, by being electric, with a large battery. Electric motors are also supposed to last longer than internal combustion engines... This would suggest a better use as a fleet car, like a taxi, or police car. Leave the low end car to infrequently driven gasoline cars.

Extension of warranty not do to lack of problems. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a month ago | (#47683571)

Basically, The drive units haven't been failing so the warranty can be extended. AKA, it's mainly a feel good idea. In short the engineers couldn't guaranty that the drive units would last and Elon wasn't going to bet the company on warranting it.

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