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New EU Rules Will Limit Vacuum Cleaners To 1600W

timothy posted about 1 month ago | from the sucking-power-defined dept.

EU 338

AmiMoJo writes "New EU rules are limiting vacuum cleaner motors to 1600W from 2014/09/01. The EU summary of the new rules explains that consumers currently equate watts with cleaning power, which is not the case. Manufacturers will be required to put ratings on packaging, including energy efficiency, cleaning efficiency on hard and carpeted floors, and dust emissions from the exhaust. In the EU vacuum cleaners use more energy than the whole of Denmark, and produce more emissions than dishwashers and washing machines."

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Do the math (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | about 1 month ago | (#47735267)

1600W is about two horse powers, and if you think you can keep a house clean with two horses running though it, I have a barn to sell you.

Re:Do the math (2, Insightful)

CaptnZilog (33073) | about 1 month ago | (#47735307)

1600W at US/120V standard is 13.33Amps.
Most standard house circuits are 15A (maybe 20A, above that it's the special 240V/30A+ outlets for stove, dryer, etc).
Add a couple of 100W incandescent bulbs on in the room and you'd be popping the breaker turning on your vacuum.

I know it's Europe, but who TF would want/need more power than that for a F'in vacuum cleaner? I can run an HP color laserjet and 3x 450W power supply pc's, an 8-drive NAS box, plus a Cisco switch, router, light, and a 50W stereo system (all in this room) off that same 1600W (I'm sure the pc's aren't drawing anywhere near that 450W full time though, and the printer is mostly off - but I have had all of them going at times).

Re:Do the math (3, Informative)

Bert64 (520050) | about 1 month ago | (#47735323)

In the EU, 240V outlets are the standard not anything special. Generally appliances (at least in the UK) have up to a 13A fuse in them, and you may have a higher capacity hard wired circuit for the stove (the dryer is almost always just plugged into a standard wall outlet).

Re:Do the math (5, Informative)

dunkelfalke (91624) | about 1 month ago | (#47735341)

In the EU 230V outlets are standard (IEC 60038). 240V is UK (as always, they absolutely have to be different from everyone else) and Cyprus (as a former British colony).
Actually, most of the former EU countries used to have the 220V standard, but it was raised to 230V so it would be more compatible to UK.

Re:Do the math (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 1 month ago | (#47735423)

All European equipment is rated for 220-240V, you can just switch plugs. Many electronics power supplies ship with separate EU/UK wires.

Re:Do the math (2)

91degrees (207121) | about 1 month ago | (#47735597)

In the EU, inlcuding the UK, 230V is standard. The tolerances are different though.

Re:Do the math (2, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | about 1 month ago | (#47735671)

It's actually 230V everywhere in Europe. It used to be 220 with 240 in the UK, so the EU set standards that basically set it to 230 but with enough slop either way that both 220 & 240 were declared within standard. Then they started to slowly harmonise everyone up/down towards 230.

Re:Do the math (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 1 month ago | (#47735739)

In the EU 230V outlets are standard (IEC 60038). 240V is UK (as always, they absolutely have to be different from everyone else) and Cyprus (as a former British colony).

That's bullshit. Try learning something about the subject before spewing lies. You'll look less of a cunt in future.

Re:Do the math (5, Informative)

Teun (17872) | about 1 month ago | (#47735345)

Uh no, since the year 2000 all of the EU, that includes the UK, runs on 230V.

The UK has not changed it's 13 Amp plugs but the domestic circuits can be up to 40 Amp, on the continent they are typically 16Amp, meaning you can pull up to 3600 Watts.

There are manufacturers selling 2000-2200 W. vacuum cleaners.

Re:Do the math (1)

AmiMoJo (196126) | about 1 month ago | (#47735421)

Actually it's still 240V in the UK. The EU requirement is 230V + 10%, so the UK just stuck with 240V to avoid having to make any changes.

Re:Do the math (4, Informative)

91degrees (207121) | about 1 month ago | (#47735605)

It was 240V +/- 6%. They did actually use those tolerances. Quite a lot of people had a supply lower than 230V or above 250V. Now it's 230V+10%/-2% which isn't a perfect overlap but only a few areas were outside of that range so it wasn't too much to fix.

Re:Do the math (1)

Trepidity (597) | about 1 month ago | (#47735427)

There are manufacturers selling 2000-2200 W. vacuum cleaners.

I can't wait for those to be gone. Not because of the energy usage really, but because those monsters are incredibly loud.

Re:Do the math (5, Interesting)

anarcobra (1551067) | about 1 month ago | (#47735475)

I love them. And I will try to keep getting them. If the problem is that people equate cleaning power with Watts, they should mandate some measurement of cleaning factor instead of maximum power. Then people can determine if they want the 2100 W vacuum cleaner, or the 1600 one with the same cleaning factor. I see what happens at other peoples houses. They have their eco vacuum and the cat hair just stays on the floor if you don't pas over it 10 times. It's the same thing with all their washing machines. In the US washing my clothes takes about 1 hour for washing and 40 minutes for drying. In the EU with all their eco washing machines it takes 2 and half hours for washing clothes (one and a half for quick) and 80 minutes to dry it. Is it more eco-friendly? I'm sure it is. But in return I have to actually plan out when I'm going to wash my clothes because it takes twice as long. Maybe I just have a bad washing machine, but all the ones I've used here are like this.

Re:Do the math (2, Insightful)

dunkelfalke (91624) | about 1 month ago | (#47735531)

Why do you actually care how much time your washing machine uses? Fill it up, switch it on and do something else during the time.You are not a cat, you don't have to stay and watch it spin. European washing machines take so long because the detergents are much milder.

Re:Do the math (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 1 month ago | (#47735709)

If you have a large family, you may need to have it on constantly to wash enough if the cycles take too long, especially if you have a combined washer/dryer.

Re:Do the math (1)

Trepidity (597) | about 1 month ago | (#47735547)

Where in the EU are you washing clothes? Most people here (Scandinavia) live in apartment buildings that have a laundry room with industrial-strength washers/dryers, which take only 25-30 minutes to wash.

Re:Do the math (1)

squiggleslash (241428) | about 1 month ago | (#47735755)

I seriously doubt that most people in the EU live in apartment buildings (or flats.) That certainly wasn't true of the UK when I lived there, or Holland or Germany when I've visited them.

Re:Do the math (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 1 month ago | (#47735697)

According to the EU it just a falsehood that vacuum cleaners that are tested as best buy, or simply the best are using more power than 1600W. From 2017 the maximum power will be limited to 900W. This is of course mandated by people who employ people to clean their houses and never do any vacuuming themselves.

But most people either buy the brand that they have good experiences with or look for consumer tests which vacuum cleaners get a good rating.

But with washing my clothes it's different. It seems that unlike u i own more than one set of clothes, so i can wear something else when i do the laundry. And unlike vacuuming, i can switch on the laundry and go do something else. So if it takes 1 or two hours make little to no difference to me.

Re:Do the math (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 1 month ago | (#47735735)

You have a terrible washing machine and have made a generalisation about all of Europe based on it.

My washing machine take 45 minutes for standard wash, 30 mins for fast, 1 hour-1hour30 for 'long' (eg duvets etc)

Re:Do the math (3, Interesting)

zephvark (1812804) | about 1 month ago | (#47735483)

There are manufacturers selling 2000-2200 W. vacuum cleaners.

I can't wait for those to be gone. Not because of the energy usage really, but because those monsters are incredibly loud.

I might point out that the power of the vacuum cleaner has no relationship to its noise level. The noise is considered a selling point, a feature, because people have this curious tendency to think, "oh yes, that's causing me permanent ear damage, so it must be doing a good job." People conflate noise with power.

Don't ask about the dust in the corner. I'm protecting my ears. I swear it.

Re:Do the math (3, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | about 1 month ago | (#47735611)

My 2kW Miele is the quietest vacuum I've ever had, even at full power (which you wouldn't normally use). It about rivals my GPUs with the fans ramped up.

Re:Do the math (1)

davids-world.com (551216) | about 1 month ago | (#47735707)

Same here. My Miele is awesome (as far as vacuum cleaners go anyway)

Re:Do the math (1)

GNious (953874) | about 1 month ago | (#47735675)

Get a Dyson - it uses less power, but is more efficient at turning that power into loud noise!

Re:Do the math (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 1 month ago | (#47735747)

I have a Dyson DC37 Animal turbine. It puts my parents' Miele to shame and embarrassed my mother as she thought her carpet would be clean while my Dyson proofed her wrong.

Re:Do the math (1)

CaptnZilog (33073) | about 1 month ago | (#47735445)

So I guess then that EU/UK homes with 2200W vacuums are *way* cleaner than US homes. :-P

(Seriously though, it really depends more on the design of the vacuum doesn't it? And to some degree does it really matter? I mean... sure, I can put a 2HP motor on my window fan, but in honesty I really don't think it's going to make the fan move air that much better. It'll make the fan a lot heavier to move and keep in the window easily, and run up my electric bill a lot more though.

Re:Do the math (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 1 month ago | (#47735529)

3600 watts? Well that's not nearly enough to run my Crysis 4 alpha build... What country's plugs have the highest wattage?

Re:Do the math (1)

jareth-0205 (525594) | about 1 month ago | (#47735565)

Uh no, since the year 2000 all of the EU, that includes the UK, runs on 230V.

Uh no, the standard voltage for mains power across the EU is 230V +/- 10%. The UK runs 240V, and still does. The continent runs 220V, and still does. The standard was picked because of EUs love of standards, but everybody knows that practically 220V=240V so they picked half way inbetween, with a tolerance, and called it a day.

Re:Do the math (2)

Teun (17872) | about 1 month ago | (#47735651)

You might be right that the UK (once more) drags it's feet [wikidot.com] to get in line with their neighbours but really, the continent runs on 230V.

The fable that the continent has also remained on 220 V is only to pacify British feelings of guild, from 1990 onward the EU countries increased their mains voltage in small steps and were done in the year 2000, a little quicker than the original plan that called for 2004.

Just as much a fable is the story the UK would have incurred great or unacceptable cost for this change, technically and with good coordination it can be done in mere hours, it was and is simply a lack of will.

At the time this harmonisation was planned, mid to late eighties, the typical power supply for domestic apparatus was fairly crude and thus the change would have had economic benefits.
The introduction of better and switchable power supplies has largely done away with many of the original reasons for harmonisation and consequently we've seen a slight increase in the permissible range.

Re:Do the math (1)

jareth-0205 (525594) | about 1 month ago | (#47735727)

Ah, I didn't know they'd actually changed. Still, if there's no point (and your link says so) then I'm not sure why you would change the voltage just to be nominally at the correct level, in preference to being technically within the allowed limits.

Re:Do the math (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 1 month ago | (#47735657)

Mainland EU is not one homogenic place, out of my sockets comes about 236V average, for as long as I had UPSs to monitor that (begin 200x).

Re:Do the math (0)

Mashiki (184564) | about 1 month ago | (#47735331)

You can still get 100w bulbs? I thought everyone had gotten around to "banning" them...you know, for the environment or something. Oh well, off to my mercury filled death lamps, and led bulbs jam packed with rare-earth-elements that are mined causing plenty of environmental damage...

Anyway, PC's are calculated for max load. My gaming rig has a max-load rating for it's PSU of 700watts, on average though for browsing, and so on it's in the 180 watt range.

Re:Do the math (1)

Teun (17872) | about 1 month ago | (#47735353)

It is still possible to buy and sell the old incandescents from existing stock, it is not allowed to manufacture or import them.

Environmentally there are no objections to the Mercury containing fluorescents as here in Europe we tend to recycle, landfills are strictly limited as a last resort.

But since a (very) few years anyone with half a brain buys LED, not cheap but long life and extremely efficient.

Re:Do the math (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 1 month ago | (#47735367)

You can buy 2 50W incadescents as well, actually as many as you like.
And you can buy incadenscents filled with inert gas (so-called energy saving) in 100, 150, 400W instances.
LED is not quite efficient as good CF is, but perhaps that's the future.

Re:Do the math (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 1 month ago | (#47735461)

It is still possible to buy and sell the old incandescents from existing stock, it is not allowed to manufacture or import them.

Environmentally there are no objections to the Mercury containing fluorescents as here in Europe we tend to recycle, landfills are strictly limited as a last resort.

But since a (very) few years anyone with half a brain buys LED, not cheap but long life and extremely efficient.

Actually, that is wrong, it is still legal to manufacture them, just not to sell them to the consumer / domestic market.

Re:Do the math (1)

RDW (41497) | about 1 month ago | (#47735509)

In the UK it's perfectly legal to sell 'rough service' incandescent light bulbs (supposedly tougher glass, reinforced filaments) to anyone, which is a loophole a couple of companies are now exploiting.

Re:Do the math (1)

Antique Geekmeister (740220) | about 1 month ago | (#47735623)

And they do have uses. There are places where the energy output is the _point_, such as putting a shoplight under the hood of your car, to keep the engine from freezing solid, in very cold winters. There are also electronic measurement environments where the high frequency signals of the flourescent electronics get into the power lines and the local ground lines, and _cannot_ be effectively filtered out. So you use 60 Hz incandescents for lighting, or even tun incandescent lights off a battery power supply.

Re:Do the math (1)

nospam007 (722110) | about 1 month ago | (#47735771)

"And they do have uses. There are places where the energy output is the _point_, such as putting a shoplight under the hood of your car, to keep the engine from freezing solid, in very cold winters. "

Or you could do it like the people in cold countries and use a proper oil heater for 15 bucks or so. They heat the oil inside the block and need only 90 Watt.
They also have battery heaters etc.

http://www.amazon.com/Kats-152... [amazon.com]

Re:Do the math (1)

Teun (17872) | about 1 month ago | (#47735677)

Sure, but you'd be a fool to use them in regular appliances, a tipical 100W bulb has an efficiency of around 1.6%, the hardened ones are quite a bit worse.

The same is true for a 40 W (50 is unusual) bulb it is up to 25% less efficient, a 100W Quarz Halogen bulb might achieve double the efficiency.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I... [wikipedia.org]

Re: Do the math (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 1 month ago | (#47735741)

Yes, we know you euros like to recycle. As in WW2 when you recycled death camp prisoners into soap and lamp coverings. Die in a firebombing, nazi shit.

Re: Do the math (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 1 month ago | (#47735453)

My vacuum cleaner is 2000W. Why did I buy it? Because it was the cheapest model available. Tho I don't put it at max (it sounds like a rocket engine if I'd do that), the wall socket can easily take that at 230V*15A. Up to 3600W. As my stove runs on old-fashioned gas, my heating works on gas, I don't have a dishwasher, and all my lights are LED, I guess 1600 spare watts is a doable margin.

Re:Do the math (1)

Splab (574204) | about 1 month ago | (#47735493)

Not sure why you are modded informative, you should be modded ignorant.

We run at 230v. +/- 10% in Europe, we generally have 10-16A fuses, and no one is selling 100w bulbs any longer.

Re:Do the math (1)

arglebargle_xiv (2212710) | about 1 month ago | (#47735549)

I know it's Europe, but who TF would want/need more power than that for a F'in vacuum cleaner?

The same people who buy 18,000 watt PMPO stereos. Obviously if it has bigger numbers it's better, so manufacturers oblige them by putting bigger numbers on things.

Re:Do the math (1)

h5inz (1284916) | about 1 month ago | (#47735571)

Hey I have a hillbilly-house with 230V and I don't think I have anything but a central breaker which is 64A. Any fun ideas what I could do with that? No.. I have already turned down the "incandescent me" idea.

Re:Do the math (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about 1 month ago | (#47735401)

1600W is about two horse powers, and if you think you can keep a house clean with two horses running though it, I have a barn to sell you.

A single horse is strong enough to lift any dirt you might possibly have off you floor. The problem is that its much cheaper to build an inefficient vacuum cleaner than an efficient one so they mostly use all those watts for creating heat and just a fraction to suck.

Re:Do the math (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about 1 month ago | (#47735413)

A single horse is strong enough to lift any dirt you might possibly have off you floor. The problem is that its much cheaper to build an inefficient vacuum cleaner than an efficient one so they mostly use all those watts for creating heat and just a fraction to suck.

An inefficient vacuum cleaner rated at 2000W sells better than an efficient one rated at 1200W. Because it has more power!!!!!!11!!!!1eleven!!!!

Re:Do the math (1)

Barsteward (969998) | about 1 month ago | (#47735469)

They'd do better to ban vacuum cleaners that still use bags to collect the dust

This sucks (4, Funny)

exabrial (818005) | about 1 month ago | (#47735279)

/me shows self to door

Re:This sucks (1)

occasional_dabbler (1735162) | about 1 month ago | (#47735497)

I was waiting for this one!

Re: This sucks (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 1 month ago | (#47735621)

The only thing that sucks more is this European socialism.

Re: This sucks (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 1 month ago | (#47735753)

You don't know what socialism is. So stfu.
- signed, a european

consumers...equate watts with cleaning power (0)

fustakrakich (1673220) | about 1 month ago | (#47735283)

Yeah, and they are right. 10,000 watts sucks a hell of a lot more than 1600.

And why should they start rationing over there now when they got those solar panels all over the place? Next to go will be indoor plumbing because it's more efficient to just empty your pisspot out the window, if you don't live in the basement...

Re:consumers...equate watts with cleaning power (1)

gl4ss (559668) | about 1 month ago | (#47735301)

it's more efficient to have plumbing systems.

shoveling shit used to be a real job you know.

Well fine then (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 1 month ago | (#47735299)

Get rid of electric vacuum cleaners and bring back the house nigger.

Waaah. (5, Informative)

wolrahnaes (632574) | about 1 month ago | (#47735325)

In the US our consumer-grade vacuum cleaners are already effectively capped around the same wattage. The standard household electrical outlet is rated to provide 15 amps and does so somewhere between 100 and 125 volts. That's 1500-1875 watts as the maximum any single device clet an expect to pull without requiring a special outlet. Nothing in reality expects the higher end of the spectrum because it's by no means guaranteed.

Somehow we get along just fine, residential or commercial, with pretty much the same as what this limit allows. /me awaits some Brit who's come to explain how their 240v 13A outlets allow them to suck the carpet right off the floor with their cleaners.

Re:Waaah. (1)

azzy (86427) | about 1 month ago | (#47735343)

Got a new vacuum cleaner lately, high power, massively discounted (didn't know it at the time but obviously due to these regulations being on horizon). At first use it stuck to the carpet and is difficult to push around, a tug on the handle WILL lift the carpet off the floor.

Re:Waaah. (2, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | about 1 month ago | (#47735361)

Actually, I have 15A outlets at 230V, that is theoretically 3500VA max.
Note it's not watts since they depend on power factor, assuming 0.7 you get about 2500W max.
With 100V/15A it's only about 1000W.
You can't have 1600W appliances in the US. (only with special electronics that would give 1.0 power factor, that would include large capacitors)

Re:Waaah. (3, Funny)

Shimbo (100005) | about 1 month ago | (#47735373)

Somehow we get along just fine, residential or commercial, with pretty much the same as what this limit allows. /me awaits some Brit who's come to explain how their 240v 13A outlets allow them to suck the carpet right off the floor with their cleaners.

Actually, we use them mostly to take out drones and deflect NEOs into a safer orbit.

Re:Waaah. (1)

Carewolf (581105) | about 1 month ago | (#47735379)

In the rest of the world we use twice the voltage. In the EU 200 to 250V is standard.

I just checked my vacuum cleaner. It is 2300W. Jesus, no wonder I never turn it up to max. That thing sucks. Hard.

Re:Waaah. (5, Funny)

AmiMoJo (196126) | about 1 month ago | (#47735385)

I threw my old 2300W one away. It was just gathering dust.

Re:Waaah. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 1 month ago | (#47735595)

That sucks.

Re:Waaah. (2)

_merlin (160982) | about 1 month ago | (#47735399)

It must take longer to boil water in the US then. In Aus a standard electric kettle has a 2.4kW resistive heating element. I bet little things like that would be most irritating for someone making the transition to a 100-125V country.

Re:Waaah. (5, Funny)

Trepidity (597) | about 1 month ago | (#47735435)

I don't think I ever saw an electric kettle in the US. People who drink coffee make it in a coffee pot, and people who drink tea are deported to Europe.

Re:Waaah. (1)

dunkelfalke (91624) | about 1 month ago | (#47735447)

What about cup ramen? In the coffee pot as well?

Re:Waaah. (1)

Trepidity (597) | about 1 month ago | (#47735457)

I think most people just add (cold) water and then microwave it, even though the instructions say to heat the water separately.

Re:Waaah. (1)

DMUTPeregrine (612791) | about 1 month ago | (#47735659)

Or just heat the water in a kettle on the stove. Most (electric) stoves use 240V outlets.

What??? (1)

jozmala (101511) | about 1 month ago | (#47735637)

I've heard rumors that they have a nice tea party in Boston.

Re:Waaah. (2)

AthanasiusKircher (1333179) | about 1 month ago | (#47735645)

I don't think I ever saw an electric kettle in the US. People who drink coffee make it in a coffee pot, and people who drink tea are deported to Europe.

I know you're sort of joking here, but I think it may depend on you and your group of friends. I use an electric water kettle daily -- it's one of the most useful devices in my kitchen.... particularly on hot summer days when you don't want to inefficiently heat up the whole kitchen with wasted gas heat or poorly-sized electric elements on your stove just to boil water when you can do it in a small insulated container. Also, it shuts off automatically at the right temperature, so I don't need to come running to shut off the stove with some high-pitched whistle blowing.

Many (most?) of the people I know seem to have them in their kitchens. I switched when I first saw a very cheap one in a catalog maybe 15 years ago, and I have only used my stovetop kettle a few times per year since. (Yes, I'm American, and I'm talking about Americans who live in the use, not immigrants.)

Also, many of the Americans I know who actually care about the flavor of their coffee prefer to make it in a French press. I'm not a regular coffee drinker, but that's about the only way I make it at home these days when I do. But I agree with you that most people in the U.S. do tend to use drip coffee pots, and for that matter many Europeans will make "stovetop espresso" in their Bialetti rather than using a French press (and thus may not use an electric kettle to brew coffee).

Actually, most of the Americans I know who don't care that much about coffee flavor seem to have moved on from "coffee pots" into the world of single-serving wasteful expensive options like K-cups, which are effectively an "electric kettle" combined with a pump. I feel like in the past few years, when I'm visiting someone, that's often the option I'm given for coffee -- either a French press (for coffee fanatics), or "you can choose whatever flavor you want because we have a Keurig." (I can understand the convenience, but the per-cup cost is insane -- it often comes out to greater than $50 per pound, often for pretty cheap crappy ground coffee.)

Re:Waaah. (1)

Trepidity (597) | about 1 month ago | (#47735667)

I do think kettles are getting more common in the U.S., but in the '90s they were almost unknown. Another factor imo is that microwaves have been ubiquitous in American kitchens for decades, and are commonly used to heat water, so there's already a common alternative to the stove. They're not a great option for boiling water, but they're a common way (in the U.S.) of making near-boiling water for brewing tea or making ramen.

Re:Waaah. (1)

AthanasiusKircher (1333179) | about 1 month ago | (#47735715)

I do think kettles are getting more common in the U.S., but in the '90s they were almost unknown.

Agreed. I don't think I ever saw one here until around the year 2000. I've just been seeing them a lot in recent years.

Another factor imo is that microwaves have been ubiquitous in American kitchens for decades

I agree with that too. For years, my grandparents used to heat up their water for their morning tea in a teacup in the microwave. I suppose for me the change happened around the same time I switched from teabags directly in a cup to loose-leaf tea brewed in a pot. When you're brewing your single-serving tea in a teacup, it makes sense to just boil the water in the cup in the microwave.

I wasn't saying that everyone uses electric kettles in the U.S. -- but I do think they have become a lot more popular in the U.S. in the past 10-15 years. Also, I've noticed with members of my family and friends who have asked me about my electric kettle that once they try one, they tend to use it regularly (unlike a lot of other kitchen gadgets).

I don't know if you also remember this, but there was a fad back in the 1990s for "iced tea makers," which were essentially like a drip coffee maker, except the tea would drip into a large pitcher over ice. (They're still around, though I don't know how popular they are.) Americans may not, as a whole, drink as much hot tea as some other countries, but they certainly drink a LOT of iced tea. I think one of my initial rationales for trying an electric water kettle myself is because I realized I could use it to brew iced tea too on hot days, without paying for a dedicated gadget.

Re:Waaah. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 1 month ago | (#47735785)

I personally don't like french press coffee. I prefer espresso. K-cups are not well known here, but i assume it's similar to Nespresso. Nespresso offers convenience, but has put style over flavor. Clooney and Malkovich in commercials, artificial taste in the cups. They would indeed cost around $50 per pound. I pay roughly $15 per pound for good coffee. I would recommend using a espresso maker: http://www.oncoffeemakers.com/i-recommend-this-espresso-coffee-maker.html also very good for traveling and even camping.

Re:Waaah. (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 1 month ago | (#47735711)

That is funny, especially since i never had anything that i would call coffee in the US. But then I thought that Starbucks sold horrible tasting tea with a weird blackish color. Real coffee comes in 35ml cups, not in a bucket.

Re:Waaah. (1)

Chris Mattern (191822) | about 1 month ago | (#47735477)

It must take longer to boil water in the US then. In Aus a standard electric kettle has a 2.4kW resistive heating element.

You don't see many kettles with built-in heating elements here. People heat their kettles on the stove, which will either be gas, or if it's electric, will be on a special high-capacity circuit.

Re:Waaah. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 1 month ago | (#47735501)

Now I'm curious about this but realize I will never find out! I have nothing to compare with and for me the water boils plenty fast in out kettle. I usually realize i have water in there for four cups and only need one, so I can quite quickly get a 400% increase in boiling speed by pouring out the excess water... (I realize that it's not 400% by the way, just to shield my anonymous ass from the engineers who will quickly point out it's not 400%)

Re:Waaah. (1)

Collective 0-0009 (1294662) | about 1 month ago | (#47735647)

I once worked with a Brit that used an electric kettle here at work all the time. I can't say I remember anything specific about the kettle, other than him not understanding why we all don't have one (and why we don't drink tea). He also quite often talked about the 240V electricity. I am sure the two topics intersected at some point.

In reality 20 amp is common and 30 amp is certainly not unheard of here in the US. I have a dedicated 20 amp circuit running to my kitchen island (at 125V), so it could pull 2400 watts.

Re:Waaah. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 1 month ago | (#47735737)

For my electric stove I have 400V / 16A, which is actually quite common.

Re:Waaah. (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 1 month ago | (#47735499)

/me awaits some Brit who's come to explain how their 240v 13A outlets allow them to suck the carpet right off the floor with their cleaners.

That's easy, 2000w+ vacuum cleaners are not that powerful as they claim, most of that is dissipated as heat, much the same way as an old school 100w lightbulb.

The real problem here is that Europe hasn't given the vacuum cleaners enough R&D time to make more efficient vacuums; should have been a ban for 2018+ not 2014.

Re:Waaah. (1)

ChoGGi (522069) | about 1 month ago | (#47735577)

"That's 1500-1875 watts as the maximum any single device clet an expect to pull without requiring a special outlet"

my buddy has a commercial steam cleaner, it comes with two plugs for two 15A circuits. I believe heater is on one, vacuum on the other

Obamacommunistsilluminatiderp (2)

NonFerrousBueller (1175131) | about 1 month ago | (#47735363)

They can have my 2000watt vacuum cleaner when they pry my cold dead hands... Wait, the EU? Nevermind. Whar's mah beer?

Re:Obamacommunistsilluminatiderp (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | about 1 month ago | (#47735389)

They can have my 2000watt vacuum cleaner when they pry my cold dead hands...

Try switching it off; you're lucky it's only got you by the hands.

My two cents (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 1 month ago | (#47735393)

Don't ban something. Put a hefty tax on it instead. This is like the lightbulb ban here in the U.S. But I do agree with requiring ratings.

Now, which would you prefer?
1. Lightbulb ban
2. High watt vacuum ban
3. No way to get out of Slashdot Beta

I think we all know it's not going to be 3.

My two cents (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 1 month ago | (#47735743)

The conventional lightbulb is easily replaced by a halogen version. That is if replacing with LED or Fluorescent lamp is not feasible.

Wow (1)

Afty0r (263037) | about 1 month ago | (#47735395)

vacuum cleaners ... produce more emissions than dishwashers and washing machines.

Wowser, I feel better about my laziness already. My room might have a 3/4" layer of dust on the floor, but I'm saving the ice packs one lie-in at a time!

200 watt is enough... (2)

bumba2014 (3564161) | about 1 month ago | (#47735417)

Our Vorwerk vacuum cleaners only use around 200 W...

Re:200 watt is enough... (1)

CaptnZilog (33073) | about 1 month ago | (#47735467)

Our Vorwerk vacuum cleaners only use around 200 W...

Yeah, but that's German engineering - they know it's the design that matters, not how many horsepower the thing packs.

so 1h every 10 day per citizen (1)

Mirar (264502) | about 1 month ago | (#47735515)

Denmark uses about 34TWh/year. EU has about 500M citizen. A vacuum cleaner is using about 2kW.
That gives about 30 vacuum-hours per year per citizen, or about 1h per 10 days (rounding in different directions).

Seems remarkably reasonable.

I don't understand the meddling of capping the power though. Just make sure everything needs to be marked with how much !/W you get from the items. I'm sure most consumers are interested in the actual work performed by the vacuum, not how much you put in. But the sellers are of course interested in hiding it.

(. Soon they will cap your hifi at 40W and tapwater taps at 1dl/minute. .)

Re:so 1h every 10 day per citizen (1)

ericloewe (2129490) | about 1 month ago | (#47735661)

I'm sure some commitee somewhere determined that past 1600W, there were diminishing returns.

The point is probably to turn it from a pissing match over who has more power into a pissing match over who has the most plusses after their A on the energy efficiency label.

Re:so 1h every 10 day per citizen (1)

Teun (17872) | about 1 month ago | (#47735699)

Thanks for the calculation, puts it into perspective.

On things like refrigerators we already have mandated efficiency symbols, it would be good to include vacuum cleaners in the same list.

more rules.... (1, Insightful)

X10 (186866) | about 1 month ago | (#47735557)

The EU found yet another way of telling me what to do. They should mind their own business, and stop wasting tax money.

Re:more rules.... (1)

91degrees (207121) | about 1 month ago | (#47735615)

The inefficient motors in your vacuum cleaner mean more pollution, which affects me so it makes it my business.

Re:more rules.... (1)

ericloewe (2129490) | about 1 month ago | (#47735665)

You guys just love to complain.

By your logic, bank robbers have the right to complain that they're not allowed to rob banks.

Your complaint is only slightly less absurd.

Re:more rules.... (1)

Teun (17872) | about 1 month ago | (#47735703)

Yep, people like you need someone to think for them, like we've all moved on to X11.

The future uses less (4, Informative)

maweki (999634) | about 1 month ago | (#47735573)

My Roomba is using about 30 Watts for its vacuum and that is more than enough.

Re:The future uses less (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 1 month ago | (#47735631)

And it's a cat toy!

                              https://www.youtube.com/watch?... [youtube.com]

I don't see what the problem is (1)

TheTrueScotsman (1191887) | about 1 month ago | (#47735609)

If 1600W is enough, then just buy two vacuum cleaners. Duh.

I win (1)

TeknoHog (164938) | about 1 month ago | (#47735617)

My vacuum cleaner has official Windows XP and Windows 7 stickers.

Ah yes, Europe (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 1 month ago | (#47735635)

The Eurocrats clearly have no contact with real life to propose legislation like this. Construction sites need powerful, wet-dry vacs to clean up. That means a lot of wattage. Hospitals need similarly powerful vacs to clean carpets in rooms. But of course, the typical Eurocrat, with his (or her) limp little wrists, does not know that, hence this silly law.

Its yet another reason to avoid Europe except as a tourist looking at old buildings and art done when Europe was still worthy of respect.

They've gone nuts with Wattage. (2)

MrL0G1C (867445) | about 1 month ago | (#47735643)

Vacuum cleaners [currys.co.uk]

Last time I looked 1400W was common, now 2400W is common.

I'd be happy if they banned putting the Wattage in the product title as a temporary measure, no doubt some of these 2400W are still crap and edging towards being a fire hazard with that much power enclosed in a small space.

What do you do with your vac' when you've finished with it? Shove it in the cupboard with lots of highly flammable materials, perhaps underneath the stairs?

Quick search confirms it happens:
https://www.google.co.uk/searc... [google.co.uk]

More than Denmark? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 1 month ago | (#47735673)

So 300 million people spend more energy vacuuming, probably once every week or two for 30 minutes. than 8 million people in total.

I call bullshit

Nope (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 1 month ago | (#47735723)

> consumers currently equate watts with cleaning power

I equate the word 'Dyson' with cleaning power.

Hardwoods and a broom (1)

whistlingtony (691548) | about 1 month ago | (#47735783)

I have hardwood floors. I use a broom. It's peaceful and meditative. I do not understand why people like carpet. It gets dirty FAST, it traps bad things, it offgasses weird chemicals, and vacumn cleaners are loud and annoying.
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