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New Financing And Fewer Staff @ SuSE

Hemos posted about 13 years ago | from the keeping-on-moving dept.

SuSE 132

jdfox writes: "According to this press release from SuSE, they have just received another 15 million Euros (about 14 million $US) venture capital, with some big names listed in the consortium's membership. They have also announced that a quarter of their 500 staff will be let go, following on from similar recent cuts. This excellent distro deserves to succeed: I hope this move will see them through the current slowdown." The upcoming release (needs babelfishing from German) of SuSE's version 7.3 promised for October 13th is loaded with a ton of goodies, too -- Kernel 2.4.10, KDE 2.2.1 and GNOME 1.4.1 beta2, among other things.

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I win again. (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | about 13 years ago | (#2379763)

Yep, that's right. I win again.

Muslims are pigs (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 13 years ago | (#2380362)

Muslim women are forced to wear "The Burcha". The "Burcha" is worn because a woman is traditionally stamped as a "soiled unclean beast of burden" and all female hair is regarded as "Abominable Pubic Sexual Hair" by ancient barbaric custom. The "Burcha" is designed to cover up this imaginary "filth" that is a woman. Maybe Islam was once far too "tolerant" and permitted this wicked practice to become confused with "religion' so it has enjoyed a strong protection until this day.

The "Burcha" is also worn in some areas as an "advertisement" that the woman has been brutally circumcised according to ancient tribal customs. Her intimate "private zone" has become a flat featureless area like a "porcelain doll" with just a pen-size orifice comparable to reptiles or birds "cloacae". She is "less filth" with no remaining "pubic scalp" left after being circumcised and therefore eligible for traditional marriage .

all right! (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | about 13 years ago | (#2379765)

first SuSE post!

w00t!

shoutout to mick!

mcdougal

Re:all right! (-1)

Fecal Troll Matter (445929) | about 13 years ago | (#2379780)

All micks are drunken assholes. That goes for you as well, mcdougal.

Re:all right! (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | about 13 years ago | (#2379965)

What about the sheep shaggers?

Behold, the economy... (-1, Troll)

11thangel (103409) | about 13 years ago | (#2379768)

Ok, is this surprising to anyone? (Not the updated packages, those are a shock) But if anyone WASNT expecting those cutbacks, lemme know.

Re:Behold, the economy... (1, Troll)

zambro1 (517371) | about 13 years ago | (#2379783)

I'm more surprised that anyone is still willing to invest $14 million on a Linux distro...

Imagine... (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | about 13 years ago | (#2379777)

Can you imagine a World Trade Center of these?

We Don't Care About SuSe Right Now!!!(joke) (1, Offtopic)

ekrout (139379) | about 13 years ago | (#2379793)

We're all busy trying to beg, steal, beg, or borrow the new StarOffice beta 6.0 ;-)

Re:We Don't Care About SuSe Right Now!!!(joke) (-1)

The_Messenger (110966) | about 13 years ago | (#2379883)

Well, I'm not -- I'm running Office XP --"i7 0wns j00r s0rry a$$." Have fun with your lousy Cheap Software.

OT: your sig (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 13 years ago | (#2379933)

There aren't any pictures in the folders.

Re:We Don't Care About SuSe Right Now!!!(joke) (0, Troll)

Sheldon_Brown (514313) | about 13 years ago | (#2379952)

Not Osama. [yahoo.com] He's already GOT his.

Oh well. I can dream! By the way, what does this mean: "Your comment violated the postercomment compression filter. Comment aborted"?

Does Anyone Remember: #@ +1 ; Provocative @# (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 13 years ago | (#2380404)

The GNU/Linux Desktop Service once provided by
Workspot [workspot.com] ?

Thank you and have a nice weekend.

just what I want (0)

ArchieBunker (132337) | about 13 years ago | (#2379802)

A distro that ships with beta versions of software. How about shipping a final stable build like the BSD's do?

Re:just what I want (1)

exceed (518714) | about 13 years ago | (#2379971)

People want the latest software at times, even if it isn't stable. Kind of like when Windows XP RC1 was accidently placed on the anonymous FTP, and the location was leaked. Everyone wanted it.

SuSE is more of a desktop OS, and often the desktop market isn't looking for awesome stability and high uptimes.

Love the SuSE (2, Interesting)

lessthan0 (176618) | about 13 years ago | (#2379826)

I've run almost 10 different distros (counting the BSDs) and I always come back to SuSE. With the crypto now in the kernels by default and the firehose of apps, SuSE kicks it mack daddy fresh.

I hope they can pull out of the general slump and get profitable again or we'll all be running RedHat XP.

Re:Love the SuSE (0, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | about 13 years ago | (#2379840)

I hope they can pull out of the general slump and get profitable again

You mean they were profitable at one time?

Re:Love the SuSE (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 13 years ago | (#2379939)

yes they were.

they're huge in europe. watch kid... these guys are the real deal.

Re:Love the SuSE (2)

garcia (6573) | about 13 years ago | (#2380081)

bloat is nice and it seems to have mass appeal but it is NOT the answer.

I have never run SuSE but from what I understand it is quite the hoarder of utilities. I personally don't appreciate having to sort through billions of packages picking what I want to install but I have to b/c I don't need to have command-line tetris games, vi, and whatever else is random and not to my liking.

As far as "built-in cyrpto" another feature I don't feel I need as of right now. If I want to protect myself and my data I will but I don't need it bloating the kernel or my HD to do so.

I do like the fact that they are releasing a version of their distrib in mid October running what is currently (and might be then) the latest kernel. I hate people who come asking for tech support about upgrading their kernel (when they have NO knowledge of it at all) b/c they are running 2.4.2-ac69.

I doubt that we will all be running "RedHat XP" but I doubt that they will become "profitable". Venture capital doesn't tend to lead to profitable business in the computer world (as we have seen w/MANY companies -- especially Linux based ones)

SuSE (as per the single fact that I need babelcrap to read their release) needs to market to people other than the Europeans in order to be profitable and they need to clean up their install (Mandrake I assume is the current leader).

OpenSource is a Good Thing. Use e/o's shit. I have always wanted: Burger King burgers, McDonalds Fries, and Wendy's frosties all under one roof. Linux can do this people. Make it happen.

Re:Love the SuSE (2, Insightful)

Chakat (320875) | about 13 years ago | (#2380310)

Actually, if you choose the default install of SuSE, it's no more bloated than any of the other distros. It's just that if you want a different program than what is the "default", chances are that it's in the collection somewhere. If you don't want a feature, you don't have to install it. Believe me, it's quite useful having those numerous CDs (or one 1337 DVD) to install software; you just have to pop in the CD as opposed to waiting for the software to download from the internet.

Plus, SuSE, once they finish their english translations, are usually quite good at documentation, in some cases better than redhat, etc.

Good to See (2)

Bilbo (7015) | about 13 years ago | (#2379841)

Good to see that some Linux firms are still managing to get new money after all the paranoia that's hounding the Tech industry these days. Sure, we've seen a lot of "We Can Do Linux Too!" chaff getting swept away lately (with a few really good companies getting taken out with them). Now it's time for the real companies to start delivering on the "Linux Rules" promises we all heard the last couple of years.

Re:Good to See (1)

WildBeast (189336) | about 13 years ago | (#2379887)

yes, so many good companies around. They can do Linux, Mac, Windows, Solaris, HP-UX, hardware, apache, sendmail, php, asp, jsp, etc. I mean, really, how fun can it be when they don't specialise in something?

gah (1)

IanA (260196) | about 13 years ago | (#2379862)

No one 'deserves' to survive. It's capitalism, sell your product, make money, or go bankrupt.

Re:gah (2)

ReelOddeeo (115880) | about 13 years ago | (#2380000)

No one 'deserves' to survive. It's capitalism

Okay, then, how about....

SuSE deserves to have the opportunity to compete. As do a lot of others.

Most startups aren't profitable overnight. Maybe not even for awhile. Linux has to struggle against both MS, the small market share of Linux (at present), other distro vendors, the general economic downturn, and the legacy of the dot-bombs.

If any company had to be profitable overnight to survive, without investors being willing to invest, and wait for their roi, then no Linux companies would probably exist, including Red Hat.

SuSE deserves to survive. Yes. They have an excellent product. (The only one I use.) Excellent engineering. And they deserve a chance (for awhile) to compete, be profitable, and survive in a capitalistic way. Any company in SuSE's, RH's, or Mandrake's position has a lot going against them. I wish them all well.

If they can't make it, then they don't deserve to survive.

[Extra Credit Question. Should infants be expected to survive on their own? How long should they be dependant on the resources of others who hope they'll grow up and be able to compete on their own and fend for themselves?]

Re:gah (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 13 years ago | (#2380285)

Interesting analogy, but in reality companies compete for investment too. In any case, investment is not the only way to start or grow a company. If a company decides it needs to grow 100-fold overnight then it has no right to demand investment to make this happen. My concern is with why these companies feel they have to tread the ubercapitalist VC investment path, rather than grow organically with demand. It's like they're stuck between capitalism on the one hand and post-capitalism on the other. Their products are post-capitalist; their funding mechanisms are old-world.

Re:gah (2)

Bilbo (7015) | about 13 years ago | (#2380054)

No one 'deserves' to survive. It's capitalism, sell your product, make money, or go bankrupt.
True enough. No one "deserves" to survive, but there have been plenty of companies in the past couple of years that "deserved" a quick and painless death...

Re:gah - OT, I know but jeez... (1)

aka-ed (459608) | about 13 years ago | (#2380079)

Why can't someone say. "these guys are doing it right, they deserve the rewards of their labor," without an economic Darwinist coming up with this scrap of useless dogma?

Regardless of economic point of view, one can truthfully say, "I like these guys, I like what they are doing, it's right for the market -- they deserve success." I don't see where this violates the cutthroat principles you seem to hold so dear.

Re:gah - OT, I know but jeez... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 13 years ago | (#2380238)

That's easy, because you're arguing from a total miscomprehension of what the market is and what Darwinism means. The market judges what's "right for the market" and the idea that "good" products "deserve" success is such a massive misnomer it's difficult to know where one begins in trying to correct it. You might as well say the dinosaurs "deserved" to survive because they were "cool".

Re:gah - OT, I know but jeez... (1)

aka-ed (459608) | about 13 years ago | (#2380576)

AC, look up the word "misnomer," first of all. An idea cannot be a "misnomer," only a word can.

Secondly, markets don't determine shit by themselves. For the market to be the true arbiter you would need an ideally free market, and a "frictionless" system. We don't have that.

Inferior products vanquish superior ones thanks to superior market positioning and distribution all the time. To say that these superior products "deserved" better postitioning, "deserved" better distribution, is fine. To say they "deserved" to win, therefore, is fine.

Unless, of course, one is in love with the Darwinist (I understand what it means, it's you that apparently do not) mantra.

"this is capitalism, nothing deserves to win except what the market says wins" totally bankrupts the meaning of the word "deserves." Deserves refers to merit -- ANY kind of merit. There are kinds of merit that exist apart from the market.

So, when someone says this or that "deserves" to win, it would be nice if the keepers of the mantra would butt out.

Re:gah - OT, I know but jeez... (1)

maxpublic (450413) | about 13 years ago | (#2380617)

A complete miscomprehension of the market also ignores the fact that true free markets don't exist in real life. That's why we have 'monopolies' and 'price fixing' and 'shitty products for high prices' - because companies that could compete under a strict free market model are snuffed out by more powerful competitors, *regardless of the quality of product*, on a regular basis.

Max

SuSE vs other distro (0)

albator69 (459249) | about 13 years ago | (#2379888)

It's sad that a great distro like that isn't used much... Everybody talk about Debian, Red Hat and Mandrake, but SuSE is as great as them, if not better for some purpose...

*sigh* (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 13 years ago | (#2379893)

When SuSE goes, it will certainly be the end of *real* Linux distros (ever notice that no one says 'distro' anymore?). Redhat, Mandrake (Redhat), and *shudder* Debian are all that are left. Slackware will likely be around for a little while as the last remaining Linux hackers get pushed out of the picture by the "A PC on every desk, all of them running Linux" crowd becomes the primary force behind the movement.

Then the movement will die.

lots of distros, actually (1)

timothy (36799) | about 13 years ago | (#2379906)

look at linuxweeklynews.com and visit their weekly roundup of distributions.

Yes, a lot of them are small, and a lot are unmaintained. That there aren't hundreds of commercially successful distro makers isn't surprising -- what *would* be surprising is if no new ones emerged to take advantage of market openings when they become glaringly obvious :)

timothy

Re:lots of distros, actually (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 13 years ago | (#2379962)

I dunno timothy. SuSE packs a lot of stuff into their distro compared to the rather paltry amount put into other distros. My last SuSE distro came with 6 CDs, it's likely more now. For users with no net connection, it's as good as it gets.

Small (Redhat, Mandrake, Debian, Slackware) and unmaintained (et al.) distributions are of no use to those without decent Internet connections.

Re:lots of distros, actually (1)

Peter Dyck (201979) | about 13 years ago | (#2380015)

IIRC SuSE also ships on a single DVD.

Re:lots of distros, actually (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 13 years ago | (#2380218)

6 CDs when I last bought their distro. It's probably cheaper to package a single DVD than the fold-out CD case they had before.

SuSE can't compete (0, Flamebait)

sting3r (519844) | about 13 years ago | (#2379897)

The SuSE approach to Linux distros is misguided and likely to blame for the poor financial shape of the company. Consider:

  • The everything-but-the-kitchen-sink approach to software. How many users choose SuSE just because the esoteric, useless package they need is provided as an rpm? It's probably not that many. Seriously, folks - how many users *actually need* five or six CDs of packages? Debian offers three but only the first is really required, unless you need something weird. But Debian doesn't have to pay the maintainers of the extraneous CDs; they're volunteers.
  • The crappy installer. It's proprietary and annoying. dselect or kpackage blows it out of the water. And the penguin looks like the ball he's sitting on is wedged up his behind. (cf "Take it Tux")
  • The fact that you need to cycle through each of the 5-6 installation CDs for a standard install. It completely defies reason.
  • The silly, unprofessional prompts. "Have a lot of fun!" Is this really from a serious company that wants to make money? I showed it to my boss and he thought it was a joke (like the "redneck" dialect in RH 4 - which actually was funny).
  • Beeping right before rebooting the system. Again, it serves no useful purpose and only annoys your office mates.

I'm sure there are plenty of other reasons. SuSE is losing customers because Debian, Mandrake, and even Redhat have replaced it for all practical purposes. The only good thing about SuSE is that the company supports some very nice projects (such as ReiserFS) - and for that I will be sad to see it go.

-sting3r

Re:SuSE can't compete (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 13 years ago | (#2379960)

You make a lot of valid points. I work for the systems staff at a large university [purdue.edu] and we are transitioning all of our mail services from Sun boxes to cheap PCs running Linux. We evaluated distributions a few months ago and SuSE was disqualified within an hour. It was both annoying to use and annoying to administer, and nobody wanted to test it any further.

Re:SuSE can't compete (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 13 years ago | (#2379995)

They really need to figure out how to tailor the resulting system so that it meets the needs of the user. I install everything, because I'd like to have the capability handy without having to scrounge around for my install CDs and then try to find some j-random RPM. But, why, oh why, do I have to wade through a bunch of bullshit when I boot. Pray tell, WHY in hell MUST I have httpd running on my workstation if I'm not planning to be a web site? (Yes, I know I can go in and tweak the init scripts, but the point is, why should I have to?)

I'm also very annoyed at their upgrade policies. It took a lot of unnecessary effort to force the upgrade to KDE 2.2.1 using SuSE's own RPMs! There were countless package interdependencies which were totally unnecessary in that they could have changed the contents of the package to make the upgrade possible using 'rpm -Uvh'. Ridiculous...

Some of their configuration utilities, particularly for printers, need work. And, why I was asked to re-add my printer after a rolling upgrade from 7.1 to 7.2, I'll never know. It was working perfectly beforehand, and the installer forced me to add a new printer, that I promptly got rid of by manually editing the appropriate files; the wizard's wand is misguided...

They have got to get this sort of stuff cleaned up (and the idiotic mindset that goes with it) or they should plan on this last round of financing to be their last...

Re:SuSE can't compete (0)

srpayne (198001) | about 13 years ago | (#2380060)

the reason SuSE puts so much into their CDs is because they are a european company... and in europe... bandwidth is extremely expenseive. Dial up is charged by the minute. Now, how much do you want to pay to sit and download 20 MB worth of source?

Re:SuSE can't compete (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 13 years ago | (#2380065)

okay, I hate logging in, but let me get to your points... first off, lets remove point 3, as its related to point 1. Now, point 1, I got the DVD edition and didn't have to mess with shuffling cd's. Sure, I didn't *need* all that stuff, but it was nice to have WordPerfect, StarOffice, Mozilla, etc... along with everything else. I would have just downloaded it with any other distro. Point 2, The installer worked great for me, and as for the picture, well... I dont give a care if those germans can draw. point 3 is solved by getting the DVD version. Point 4, unprofessional, sure. But if your the administrator, and your the only one to see it, who cares? Besides, you can change them. Point 5, unplug your speaker.

Re:SuSE can't compete (1)

Si (9816) | about 13 years ago | (#2380070)

1. You don't /need/ all 6 CDs. Indeed, I've installed (SuSE6.2) with just the first.

2. To each his own, yes YAST is proprietary but that doesn't mean it sucks.

3. You are making this up.

4. Who says work can't be fun? For me, using Linux /is/ fun. Using windows is a pain in the rear.

5. That beep is probably caused by an alert -- something that couldn't be shut down (normally) for instance. I suggest looking at your shutdown scripts.

Re:SuSE can't compete (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 13 years ago | (#2380097)


First of all SuSE provides different versions so you don t have to buy the 6 cds: professional 6 cd + 1 dvd , personal 3 cds. The sources of the installer are on cd 6. By the way CD 6 only contains source packages so you will never need it for a standart install. For a standart installation you only need cd 1-2. And damn it peeps when you reboot ... but seriously is that a joke or an argument?

On the other side I think you are rigth, a lot of tools they provide need improvments. The installation is still quite complicated for beginners. But on the other side they have some interesting features. For example they keep their distribution very compatible (see the number of configuration files). You can use their distribution easily as a router or a desktop computer. Perhaps this flexibility makes it a bit harder for beginners to use this distribution.

Re:SuSE can't compete (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about 13 years ago | (#2380129)

Nice attempt to troll.

1) SuSE doesn't provide everything (I've installed a lot of stuff I found via freshmeat and apps.kde.com), but they do choose to provide a reasonable selection of apps, which produces a few cents of extra cost for them and gives the user more choices. I'd rather have more than less, but a lot of the old stuff they provide could be removed. On the other hand, they do provide reasonable standard selections.

2) I like the installer, especially for online security updates, but obviously apt-get has its advantages. However, yast2 is not "proprietary" (exclusive property). SuSE provides the sources under an open license and only requires that you send them any changes you publish and do not derive profit from their use.

3) I only had to use one or two CDs in SuSE 7.2. "It completely defies reason" is nonsense since it obviously depends on the packages you choose. Optimizations may be possible.

4) "Have a lot of fun!" is no more or less professional than "Where do you want to go today?" or any other slogan of your choice. In fact, I like the familiar feeling of it since it's been in there for quite some time. That work should not be any fun is the typical attitude of slaveholders.

5) I could care less.

If you believe these are reasons for failure, you are exactly the kind of person who should never make business decisions.

Re:SuSE can't compete (0)

kentyman23 (466366) | about 13 years ago | (#2380178)

"Have a lot of fun" and beeping are HARDLY reasons to stay away from a distro... why not just change it yourself?

Re:SuSE can't compete (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 13 years ago | (#2380180)

4) Maybe Dieter or Heinrich over at SuSE could change your prompt to say 'fick dich ins Knie.'

Re:SuSE can't compete (5, Informative)

jfunk (33224) | about 13 years ago | (#2380235)

Your approach to criticising SuSE is misguided:

The everything-but-the-kitchen-sink approach to software. How many users choose SuSE just because the esoteric, useless package they need is provided as an rpm? It's probably not that many. Seriously, folks - how many users *actually need* five or six CDs of packages? Debian offers three but only the first is really required, unless you need something weird. But Debian doesn't have to pay the maintainers of the extraneous CDs; they're volunteers.


I prefer to have it on DVD and I leave it on my laptop as well as store the entire thing on a server. If I need a package, I can open up YaST and do a search. I much prefer SuSE RPMs because they seem to pay a lot of attention to detail, making sure that everything integrates nicely and is easy to setup. Do note that you're not representative of their big customers, who *do* want the kitchen sink approach, and often use Alice, a great system, to do mass installations. It all saves a lot of time in a big company.

The crappy installer. It's proprietary and annoying. dselect or kpackage blows it out of the water. And the penguin looks like the ball he's sitting on is wedged up his behind. (cf "Take it Tux")


The installer is great. Dselect has a *horrid* user interface and Kpackage is not an installer. I'm also sick of the "proprietary YaST" FUD I see around here. Did you actually *read* the license? Not only did I read it, but I agree with it. You obviusly have no idea that it is extremely customisable, either. Each YaST2 module is a perl script, which you can mess with. You can also make your own, if you want. It's really cool, and well documented. All of the source is there for the binary parts, as well, and you can modify it all you want, as long as you don't modify it *and* sell it. One or the other is just fine.

The fact that you need to cycle through each of the 5-6 installation CDs for a standard install. It completely defies reason.


You're totally wrong. Not much more to say here.

The silly, unprofessional prompts. "Have a lot of fun!" Is this really from a serious company that wants to make money? I showed it to my boss and he thought it was a joke (like the "redneck" dialect in RH 4 - which actually was funny).


I'm having trouble understanding you here. You think 'redneck' dialogue is professional and the single phrase "Have a lot of fun!" isn't? If anybody uses that phrase for their prime criteria for dumping a solution they should be fired on the spot.

Beeping right before rebooting the system. Again, it serves no useful purpose and only annoys your office mates.


Speaking as someone who works for a company that sells servers, we did the same thing. An ascending beep for startup and a descending beep for shutdown. Why did we do this? Reason 1 was that our customers asked for it. There are usually no monitors hooked up to servers and if you're shutting down from a ssh connection, it would be really nice to know when it's safe to turn the server off.

Re:SuSE can't compete (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 13 years ago | (#2380341)

Why don't you name a couple of reasons why somebody would choose SuSE over Mandrake, Debian, Redhat, Slackware, etc?

Re:SuSE can't compete (1)

Mongr (238) | about 13 years ago | (#2380361)

I think you are missing one of the reasons they include "everything and the kitchen sink". Starting out as a european distribution, where at the time everybody was on slow dialup, and paid by the minute for connectivity....having all this included made one HELL of alot of sense in my opinion.

Deserves? (3, Insightful)

ChaoticCoyote (195677) | about 13 years ago | (#2379902)

While SuSE does have some good things going for it, whether or not it "deserves" to survive is a matter of natural selection in the marketplace. It might be the best damned Linux distro ever -- but if people don't buy it, it will go the way of other "deserving" but unsuccessful products.

Perhaps SuSE can persevere by gaining a rabid following that doggedly and vehemently defends "their" distribution in fora like Slashdot... zealotry can be a potent force for survival.

Me? I'm a distro agnostic; I've bought SuSE, and Red Hat, and Mandrake, and I've downloaded Debian, Slackware, and Mandrake (yes, again) for various projects. And that may be part of SuSE's problem: all distros have their good and bad points, but there isn't much in the way of overwhelming distinction.

For my stuff, I prefer Debian, Slackware, and Mandrake, depending on circumstances. Your mileage may vary -- and SuSE needs to get better mileage if it wants to be here in five years.

Re:Deserves? (0, Troll)

Sheldon_Brown (514313) | about 13 years ago | (#2379980)

"zealotry can be a potent force for survival."

Are you talking about this guy [yahoo.com] ???

Re:Deserves? (1)

sporty (27564) | about 13 years ago | (#2379991)

Perhaps the fact that it has good points makes it good, and deserve to survive? Hey, it could be a terrible distro and deserve to die :)

Re:Deserves? (2)

aralin (107264) | about 13 years ago | (#2380024)

I am sorry, but in market that is dominated with predatory monopoly which is continuously breaking laws is not even close to free. In such market all the other companies need all the help, support and good will they can get.

Re:Deserves? (1)

c13v3rm0nk3y (189767) | about 13 years ago | (#2380312)

While SuSE does have some good things going for it, whether or not it "deserves" to survive is a matter of natural selection in the marketplace.

They should bailed out forever for having such a cool sticker pack in the latest release.

I like stickers.

-- cm

Nice to see they're still hanging in there (2)

ackthpt (218170) | about 13 years ago | (#2379911)

As often as I voice an opinion that M$ needs competition (which they really don't have in a Win* compatible format, which is why the OS is such a bloated, unstable mess) I like to seel SuSE as a strong alternative distribution to RedHat. In a few months I'll be building up another machine and would like to run them head to head.

Re:Nice to see they're still hanging in there (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 13 years ago | (#2380370)

The reason Windows is a bloated mess [although it's actually very stable these days] is that they have to support all hardware. When Linux supports the same hardware as Windows, it too will be a bloated mess [just look at X].

English announcement of SuSE 7.3 (3, Informative)

Schoinobates Volans (443594) | about 13 years ago | (#2379915)

That announcement [www.suse.de] won't need babelfishing: It's the english version ;-)

Re:English announcement of SuSE 7.3 (2)

fobbman (131816) | about 13 years ago | (#2380264)

Wow, they really DID call us Linux users "Freaks". I was giving them the benefit of the doubt that the Babelfish translation was just a bit off.

I am, however, glad to see that there was a translation problem that created the exclamation "Linux and Windows on a PC - as simple as never".

SuSE (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 13 years ago | (#2379926)

SuSE is good. It would be better if they could get their finances right. If more people used SuSE that would help. Maybe SuSE could merge with Debian. That would make a lot of users. Best wishes to SuSE workers.

Re:SuSE (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 13 years ago | (#2379989)

Wouldn't work.

SuSE is in the business to make money. Debian is in the business to promote an anti-business philosophy.

Re:SuSE (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 13 years ago | (#2380045)

That's too bad that Debian is so anti-business because both SuSE and Debian have a strong interest in good technical innovation. SuSE has funded a lot of support for XFree86 which has helped across the board. A SuSE/Debian merge would be good from a practical standpoint but the ideological differences might make that unrealistic.

SuSE sticking around (4, Insightful)

kikensei (518689) | about 13 years ago | (#2379931)

SuSE puts out a very nice mail server product (I'm running our 40 user office on it) using Cyrus IMAP, LDAP and IMP web access. So easy, all our netscape users get LDAP access via their netscape address book so our mail lists are centrally administrated and current. Upon ordering their server, I got a quick call from Suse customer support asking for input about things I'd like to see in their future products and asking for feedback regarding any problems I may have. Very responsive. Their linux distro is current and top notch. I've been using it exclusively for 6 months. The Yast utilities can make things VERY easy for newbies, but you can stick to the CLI and completely forego the Suse utilities entirely. I believe that they're getting major funding from IBM and Intel so those outfits can get into the server room on the IA-64 cpu's. Here's hoping this distro has legs...

SuSE 7.3 on their UK website (1)

rsf (136244) | about 13 years ago | (#2379932)

Check it out here in English.

Not temporary. (1)

codeforprofit2 (457961) | about 13 years ago | (#2379935)

"I hope this move will see them through the current slowdown"

I hope you don't have the idea that it's temporary?

Many companies (dotcoms, open source etc) gave away their products for free or charged insuffient for them. They still got huge amount of $$$ from VC's and the public and what is best described as gambling.

This is gone and will hopefully never come back.

Gimp? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 13 years ago | (#2379945)

I realize this is way offtopic, but can someone tell me WTF is going on with Gimp.org? Can't get to any gimp.org site and I've been trying to get Gimp32 for two days.

Re:Gimp? (1)

codeforprofit2 (457961) | about 13 years ago | (#2380026)

Maybe they got a haircut and a real job? :)

Re:Gimp? (2)

friday2k (205692) | about 13 years ago | (#2380520)

According to the changelog [gnome.org] on news.gimp.org [slashdot.org] there were updates in the last 24 hours. The news site is also still up, maybe you can reach somebody there?

Getting money, and slashing employees? (2, Insightful)

exceed (518714) | about 13 years ago | (#2379946)

Why is it that SuSE gets a relatively large amount of money for a smaller company, and then they slash more employees. I understand they want to "stay in the game" and want to save alot of that money, but are we going to notice the quality of their output lessen as more and more workers get slashed, and yet they get more financial support from other companies? Cutting 500 jobs from a company such as SuSE sounds like quote a bit. Does anyone know how many people are currently employed with SuSE?

Re:Getting money, and slashing employees? (1)

BurritoWarrior (90481) | about 13 years ago | (#2380128)

They employ 500, and are cutting about 25% of that; they aren't laying off 500.

Re:Getting money, and slashing employees? (1)

Mads-Martin (82002) | about 13 years ago | (#2380239)

Well--it could be that the investors said: "You cannot get it to work how it is now, and you're spending too much money. Cut costs and start _not_ loosing money, then we'll invest in you."

Re:Getting money, and slashing employees? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 13 years ago | (#2380614)

Sure, I guess. Although I'll be the investors are smart enough to know how to spell "lose".

pronunciation (2, Interesting)

quannump (310933) | about 13 years ago | (#2379956)

how do you pronounce SuSE? sue-see? sue-zee? sooz?

Re:pronunciation (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 13 years ago | (#2380001)

So-ze... Keiser Soze.

Re:pronunciation (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | about 13 years ago | (#2380076)

Technically it should be pronounced like "ZOO-zuh" but the Americanized pronounciation of "SOO- zuh" is fine (pronounced like last name of John Philip Sousa the famous marching band music writer of the late 1800's thru early 1900's).

Re:pronunciation (0)

kentyman23 (466366) | about 13 years ago | (#2380244)

Um, there is no rule of thumb in speaking German that "s" turns to "z"... perhaps you are confused with the "w" to "v" notion. However, your "technical" history of John Philip Sousa was stunning...

Anyway, straight from the chameleon's mouth is the following:

It should be pronounced like "Soose". The "U" sounds like the "oo" in "moose", the last "e" is spoken like the "a" in "at". But in general it is not very important to pronounce it correctly, as long as it is clear what you are talking about.

I personally pronouce it "SOO-suh", and I speak German.

The real reason we were bombed (-1, Offtopic)

Jim42688 (445645) | about 13 years ago | (#2379974)

Blame it on Hollywood. Blame it on Final Fantasy. I don't know WHO to blame, but somewhere down the line we got to believing that we're the 'good guys.' Not only that, we believe that the good guys always follow 'rules.' We don't lower ourselves to the level of the 'bad guys.' We can't kill innocent people, even by accident in self defense. We can't work in secret, or enlist the aid of shady characters who don't reflect our ethics. We have the most powerful military in the world, but we must use it carefully, keep it on a leash, so to speak, lest someone calls us 'mean.'

BULL FUCKING SHIT. Guess what? Afghanistan and most every other country in that region HAS NOT adopted our post-romantic-era self righteous heroic bullshit. They're still somewhere around Homer's Ulysses 'kill the men and children, rape the women and take them for the slave trade' mindset in that regard. And they're using our liberal, Hollywood-generated pussy attitude to their advantage, BIG TIME.

We ARE the most powerful country in the world. As I hinted at earlier, we have the best guns, bombs, lasers and God-knows-what-else up our sleeve. Why, then, does a government like the Taliban, whose airforce we could wipe out in a matter of seconds, even DARE let bin Laden and Al Qaeda have free reign in Afghanistan? Why does Mullah Omar scoff at US demands and threaten us AS IF he could stand a chance were this to become a military conflict?

I'll tell you why. Because Saddam Hussein is still in Iraq. Osama bin Laden was indicted for the bombings of the US Embassies in Tanzania, we dropped a few missiles nowhere in particular, and that was that. WE are the laughing stock of the world, because we are always trying to be a goodie-two-shoes nation that never finishes the job. Mullah Omar knows that, Osama bin Laden knows that, EVERYBODY KNOWS IT. They're like spoiled brat kids who can't get punished by the school because their parents think they need to be 'praised not penalized.' The kids aren't afraid anymore, hence the bolder attacks. I know it's not been a common practice with the past few generations, but it's time to start beating the kids again.

It's truly a sad fact that we actually give a rat's ass what the rest of the world thinks about our response to what happened on September 11th. There's no doubt in my mind that our leaders knew very quickly who was to blame, but they decided they needed to spend weeks gathering evidence to satisfy everybody else. We should have bombed the living holy shit out of Afghanistan within 24 hours of the attack, while it was still hot. Then we should have sent a mess of troops in to finish the job and make sure bin Laden isn't coming back like Freddy Kreuger in a Friday the 13th sequel. Nobody would have dared say a word. Not while the smell of innocent blood was still fresh in our nostrils, while the fires were still being put out in Manhattan. THEN we could have started the broader war on terrorism, after we put the bad guys in their place.

Remember Qadaffi? Remember what we did when he was sponsoring terrorism in the 80s? I'll refresh your memory. We bombed Libya to hell and back. We blew up Qadaffi's house, killed half his family, and nearly killed him. Scared the living shit out of him. And you know what? We haven't heard a peep out of the fucker since. He knew we meant business, because back then we DID mean business.

Nowadays, thanks to pussy presidents like Bill Clinton and the feel-good liberals with their heads in the clouds, we have both hands tied behind our back. We've been waiting for weeks. We've heard every world leader tell us how we have to be careful, how a 'measured' response is in order. One would think they're more concerned for the Taliban than for the people who died on September 11th. We've been effectively castrated, and that, my friends, is why the USA was attacked.

I know that right now there are a hundred hippie liberal university types just imploding at the callous nature of my views. They're going to tell me that I'm just as bad as the terrorists, that violence begets violence, that US foreign policy was to blame, bla bla FUCKING BLA. But honestly, are my views even remotely as ridiculous as the idea that peace marches are constructive at a time like this?

Actually, I'm a peaceful, loving individual. I love my family, my friends, my girlfriend. I damn near cried on September 11th, and I guess that means I love a whole bunch of people that I don't even know. I love order, and the security we enjoy in free, democratic societies. But I DON'T live in a dream world. Peace can't always be made by turning the other cheek, because some people will just smack that other cheek and then rip your fucking head off. With respect to our current enemy, peace is going to be made by killing a lot of people, and killing them so horribly that the ones who survive will be too impotent with fear to ever even THINK of fucking with the United States of America again.

Re:The real reason we were bombed (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 13 years ago | (#2380012)

Hey, look! A flamebait troll by an AOL user! Haven't seen these since the demise of the USENET in '94!

Feel better now? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 13 years ago | (#2380115)

My, my, my.... Well son, do you feel better now that you've vented your spleen all over the planet?

Babelfished (3, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | about 13 years ago | (#2379984)

SuSE Linux 7,3 - entering and driving off
Available starting from 13 October

The new SuSE Linux - simply, independently, stably, surely!
Select between the personnel edition - Linux for the whole family and the Professional edition - Linux without boundaries . The new SuSE Linux 7,3 in the overview .

With its function abundance, its proverbial stability and its efficient protective mechanisms against bad accesses SuSE Linux 7,3 is the umfassendeste, most stable and safest operating system, which was developed ever for the privatgebrauch.

SuSE Linux 7,3 - fast and simply like never before!
Within minutes you operate with an operating system to serve that very easy are and at it stably and safe like no different one. Look forward to a system, which makes the work with its graphic surface so comfortable and simple that it is a true joy. Profited from the new A riser over the experienced home user up to the system administrator, everyone from the new features , the life with Linux becomes still simpler - for all! With SuSE Linux 7,3 applies now finally:

Linux - now everyone understands!

Linux and Windows on a PC? - naturally!
The best is: They do not have to transfer at all , you must only enter ! They do not need to do without your used Windows *. SuSE Linux 7,3 can be installed fast and problem-free beside other operating systems on your computer. None is impaired by the other one!

Fall and viruses? - not under Linux!
Perhaps they know that:

Blue display with incomprehensible messages over protection violations , which request for the restart of the computer?
Overruns by viruses , which happened to you by Mail?
Attacks by hackers on your computer?
All things, about which you can smile only tired from now on, if to you your acquaintance ensureful on it report.

Linux only for Freaks? - the times are past! From now on applies:
Linux for the whole family!
SuSE Linux 7,3 is an operating system for the whole family . Linux in the hands of your children? No problem:

very easy : SuSE Linux 7,3 is to be served with its surface KDE very easy.
: No system file can be damaged by mistake or in the case of doubt intentionally.
playful : SuSE Linux 7,3 contains a large number of plays, the play series was strongly extended and improved. Likewise Multimedia applications were improved, like television under Linux and sound applications substantially extended and.
multimedially : DS burn, videos see and processing, sound to mix, cut schnittstudio, Synthesizer are only some the many Multimedia possibilities.
privately : Each user has his own private environment, which no different one sees when desired, let alone to change or delete may.
interlaced : Do not create your own family network, with SuSE Linux, to the network operating system par excellence, a problem.
A riser or old hare? - for everyone the correct version!
Are you already a new A riser or an old Linux hare? - you have the selection: Personal or Professional . Decide, what you need! As a risers you will likewise estimate the high comfort of the operation the personnel edition as as an expert the many Client and server applications in the Professional edition .

Babelfish is fun! (2, Funny)

justins (80659) | about 13 years ago | (#2380028)

SuSE Linux 7,3 - entering and driving off

With its function abundance, its proverbial stability and its efficient protective mechanisms against bad accesses SuSE Linux 7,3 is the umfassendeste, most stable and safest operating system, which was developed ever for the privatgebrauch.

Linux only for Freaks? - the times are past! From now on applies: Linux for the whole family!

Blue Screen of Death -- This is classic!!! (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 13 years ago | (#2380145)

Blue display with incomprehensible messages over protection violations , which request for the restart of the computer?

This is the most wonderful thing I've read today!!! Almost should be from a bad translation of Japanese, not German.... Picture Mojo Jojo saying this instead, for a laugh!

Buy Linux Incentive (2, Interesting)

sabinm (447146) | about 13 years ago | (#2380049)

With this 14 million dollars, they should focus marketing on their Distro in EU circles.
The popularity of SuSe is great in Europe and it wouldn't be as great of a challenge to convert users and organizations to Linux.

If they gave corporations and govt. incentives to purchase SuSe, like deals w/the OEMs to make systems that were preinstalled and came w/loads of Tech Support, they could throw a monky wrench in the Software licensing scheme.



Say for instance the incentives that companies had with Compaq 7 years ago. My dad got a 386/sx with windows 3x for about 1500 - a cost that was footed by the company.The same thing could be done for Linux today. Get a significant cash incentive, install some killer apps, along with a smooth game (Quake) for after hours and a internet connection and you can hook the average consumer on Linux. Next time they go out to buy a box, the consumer will most likely stick with SuSe.



Worked for MS, should work for SuSe.
All I'm saying is that you already have a product that is good, it's time to put it on display. Let it sink or float according to its merits.

Don't spend too much more time on a near perfect product. It's time to let it out to play with the big boys.

Never tried Suse (1)

notext (461158) | about 13 years ago | (#2380099)

No iso. They only have that pitiful eval crap. Now I know you don't have to have an iso to install it but thats the only way its getting on one of my machines. And I am certainly not buying it without having it on machine first.

I am not sure what goes on in that suse brain, not sure if I want to, either.

Re:Never tried Suse (1)

trynis (208765) | about 13 years ago | (#2380509)

FYI, the evaluation CD will do just fine. I installed 6.4 (IIRC) from the eval cd. When I needed packages not included on the eval, I just changed the installation medium to "ftp" in the setup program, and suddenly I had access to the full distribution which usually takes six cds.

BiG deception campaigns (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 13 years ago | (#2380104)

http://forums.nytimes.com/webin/WebX?11@40.Gtc0am2 Yw5j^3671433@.f1ca8c8

White People are better than Muslims (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | about 13 years ago | (#2380166)

It's pretty obvious that recent events prove that White Folk are superior to Muslims.

Muslims are one step below pigs.

suse-linux-e (1)

broody (171983) | about 13 years ago | (#2380183)

I love SuSE.

I've been using it for years and it just keeps getting better and better. As much as I like the distro though, the main user mailing list (suse-linux-e) just rocks, it's probably the nicest online community that I have ever participated in except perhaps ISCA in it's day.

Why the negative ways? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 13 years ago | (#2380186)

Interesting this should come up, as I just installed SuSe last night, and can honestly say it is one of the best computing experiences I've ever had.



Installation was insanely easy, and even the low cost Personal edition came with everything I could possibly want (don't like the 6?7? cd Professional edition? then don't buy it!). More impressive too was the fact that it by default found and configured what is (imho) some rather unique hardware.


While I agree that they need to work on their product offerings (why does the Professional version come with more games than the Personal edition???), I hate to see folks here knock what is in my opinion the best distro on the market (from the perspective of ma and pa user). In fact, rather than cutting them down, perhaps we should applaud (at least recognize) that they are the best selling (most popular) distro in Europe (there is something outside the US???)


Having used SuSe when it was bad (5.3 sucked!), RedHat, Slackware, and Debian, I can say with certainty that this is the first distro I think has actually reached a truely "useable" state for the masses. Do I think the masses are ready for it? Maybe, given how restrictive and invasive WinXP is going to be. For that matter, when I can get SuSe 7.2 Person for $39, why would I pay the $200 it would cost me to buy WinXP? Likewise, when StarOffice (which is a lot better than given credit for here) is free, why look a gift horse in the mouth?


In other words, SuSe is a great company, a solid (if misguided) distribution, and the bitching here should really be channeled into improving it as a product, since (for the first time) I actually see a real competition to the legions in Redmond.



AC, because I enjoy anonymity.

Pray... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 13 years ago | (#2380220)

Let's just hope that the guys over at Suse don't end up like these guys. :) [tacoinspector.com]

more money, less people mulling about (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 13 years ago | (#2380280)

we'll let go of our yachts & mansions, before we lose any staff at ScaredCity(?tm?) [scaredcity.com] , & we hope you'll think the same way, whether or not you acquire this relevant URL [opensourceworks.com] from us, due to your interest in brave gnu world, & your ability to follow simple directions.

suse works just fine for us. but then so does rhat, etc..., ITs great to have choices. fud is dead.

No Management No Survive (1)

bryanbrunton (262081) | about 13 years ago | (#2380283)


The management from SuSE and Mandrake are actually competing to see who can manage a company worse.

Mandrake:

(1) Hand over control of operations to an American group who decide that Mandrake is now all about E-Learning. Later, fire said group when it becomes obvious that MandrakeExpert won't be bringing in the bacon.

(2) Hire an elementry school child to design the Mandrake logo and graphics.

SuSE:

(1) Waste and overspend existing investment dollars by building a consultancy group that is about 1/3 larger than the market can support.
(2) Original school child who designed logo and marketing material is stolen away by rival distro.

troll (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 13 years ago | (#2380308)

tired of the stories on slashdot? want to get out of the open-source "machine"? tired of the "back-alley" agendas held by members of the 'OS' community? visit the lame at http://techienews.utropicmedia.com [utropicmedia.com] and let us know how we can make it more so!

Maybe distributions do not matter (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 13 years ago | (#2380423)

IMHO you all keep talking about the wrong issues. The thing is simply you cannot really make money with an OS for the simple reason no-one works with an OS. It is the applications that do the work and this is where S.u.S.E. is going to go. Sooner or later IBM or HP or whoever is going to sell computers with Linux installed the same way you get your new car with petrol in the tank and this is not going to leave much room for distributors. Other services do not really cut it either, as someone who can handle, say Solaris, does not need support for Linux and if the distribution is what you have to care most about, then you are on the wrong track already as obviously you are not using a computer to get the job done but to use a computer.

Stephen King, author, dead at 54 (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | about 13 years ago | (#2380429)


I just heard some sad news on talk radio - Horror/Sci Fi writer Stephen King was found dead in his Maine home this morning. There weren't any more details. I'm sure everyone in the Slashdot community will miss him - even if you didn't enjoy his work, there's no denying his contributions to popular culture. Truly an American icon.

My limited exp with SuSE (1)

The Infamous Grimace (525297) | about 13 years ago | (#2380491)

I picked up a copy of 6.1(?) many many months ago, as a possible alternative to Windows (which I despised). Ended up buying a Mac (needed a reliable comp for school), and never really used it. Trashed that particular PC, pieced together a new one from Frys, and picked up a copy of Mandrake 7.0 'cause it was on sale. Gotta admit, I really like Mandrakes setup app. PartionMagic is pretty slick, IMHO. However, whenever Mandrake would try to 'query' any of the expansion slots (PCI and ISA), it'd lock up. Windows 98SE has similar problems (won't shut down, sees things that aren't there, and doesn't see stuff that is). Think I got mainboard problems. But I have NONE of these problems with SuSE. Not a one. And while yast may be kinda clumsy, it works. I look forward to SuSE's latest offering. They will be getting my $$$.

-Peter
"We don't inherit the land from our ancestors"
"We borrow it from our children"

Re:My limited exp with SuSE (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 13 years ago | (#2380696)

To me, these sound more like a kernel issue, independent of distributions. However, some distros might take the risk and releast unstable stuffs. like *.0 distros usually have random problems.

Ahhh... SuSe the non-free Linux-distro (1, Flamebait)

GC (19160) | about 13 years ago | (#2380492)

My problem with SuSe is that I have not yet found a way to download ISOs of it's full installation.

Because of this I am not prepared to leave the distribution that I have worked with for nearly seven years (here [slackware.com] ).

I've heard a lot of good things about SuSe, but as Linux can be a finneckety thing to get used to I am not prepared to spend money on it until I know what it's like, including exactly what packages come with it. (I'm a bit stubborn when it comes to console text editors... hear that, Patrick?)

I'm not a Linux freeloader - I've pumped more money into Slackware than I have Windows, and I'm proud of it.

But until SuSe join the Open Source Revolution it's unlikely that they'll be seeing my $

Re:Ahhh... SuSe the non-free Linux-distro (1)

trynis (208765) | about 13 years ago | (#2380529)

Like I said in another post, get the evaluation CD. It is not crippled in any way. It just contains fewer packages. You can later change the source medium to "ftp" if you need the full distribution.

Yes, but (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 13 years ago | (#2380713)

They took away the ftp sites pretty darn fast! In a few months, you won't be able to find the packages that you would've downloaded if you could. That's my main problem with this SusE, which I have used for three years.

Not that the guys don't deserve the money for putting together a wonderful distro, but after the double the price I see no reason to break the bank and support them.

Google has a translator also (beta) (n/t) (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 13 years ago | (#2380661)

no text
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