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Apple Said To Team With Visa, MasterCard On iPhone Wallet

samzenpus posted about 2 months ago | from the pay-your-way dept.

Cloud 187

An anonymous reader writes with news about a possible partnership between Apple and major credit card companies. Apple plans to turn its next iPhone into a mobile wallet through a partnership with major payment networks, banks and retailers, according a person familiar with the situation. The agreement includes Visa, MasterCard, and American Express and will be unveiled on Sept. 9 along with the next iPhone, said the person, who asked not to be identified because the talks are private. The new iPhone will make mobile payment easier by including a near-field communication chip for the first time, the person said. That advancement along with Touch ID, a fingerprint recognition reader that debuted on the most recent iPhone, will allow consumers to securely pay for items in a store with the touch of a finger.

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As much as I hate Apple (4, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 months ago | (#47798445)

This will be good because it might finally get businesses serious about exception NFC transactions. As long as it's not some proprietary bullshit on Apple's end, of course.

As much as I hate Apple (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 months ago | (#47798487)

I have enough trouble with businesses not accepting Eftpos (or any card) transactions at all, I find it hard to imagine how "Yet another" payment gateway is going to make it any different.

Re:As much as I hate Apple (5, Insightful)

Isomorphic (241771) | about 2 months ago | (#47798501)

This is not really a surprising move from Apple. It was more or less a given once they rolled out TouchID.

On the flip side, I've been listening to various Internet commentators go on and on about how Apple "has to have NFC" (reason: "because Android does"). Meanwhile, I've had an RFID credit card for approximately five years now, and, despite attempting to use it at numerous terminals marked with the RFID symbols, have only been successful in using it less than five times. Apparently no one running a retail payment terminal cares.

Even if you are a hater, you have to admit Apple's entry into this market will help spur businesses to roll out NFC terminals, or switch on NFC on their existing terminals, or just make sure the NFC works.

Re:As much as I hate Apple (4, Interesting)

AmiMoJo (196126) | about 2 months ago | (#47798671)

I use NFC for payment every day without issue. It's a mature, reliable technology, at least in most places. I think where there have been issues it's usually due to retailers insisting on using certain companies with new tech, instead of established ones.

The real problem is the lack of standards. Japan has e-wallets, there is Google Wallet and now it looks like there will be a third and incompatible Apple wallet. What are the chances that other payment providers will be allowed to use NFC on Apple hardware for their own systems? Could you ditch the Apple wallet and install Google Wallet instead?

Re:As much as I hate Apple (2)

ArmoredDragon (3450605) | about 2 months ago | (#47798681)

Apparently no one running a retail payment terminal cares.

Virtually every walmart, walgreens, CVS, and mcdonalds I've seen has one.

This is a long time coming IMO, but I can still see the tinfoil hat crowd rejecting it. Too much FUD goes around about RFID (like those little credit card faraday cages that some infomercials sell) to make it seem somehow dangerous (I remember when the internet itself was considered dangerous by these types...anybody remember the Sandra Bullock movie "The Net"?)

In reality though, RFID payment, at least in the Android implementation I've seen, is by far more secure than magnetic strips as it isn't susceptible to skimming or any other type of replay attack.

Re:As much as I hate Apple (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 months ago | (#47798769)

The issue, or rather concern, with the on-card contact-less payments (VISA PayPass, etc.) is that someone could activate it while it was still in you wallet in your pocket via a specially designed (any maybe illegal; but that hasn't been known to stop thieves) hardware, and that this could be used a avenue for fraud. Not sure if there was ever a real life POC of this working or not.

Now on a mobile phone this would be a non-issue as the NFC could be configured to only respond under certain circumstances, e.g. entering a PIN number.

Re:As much as I hate Apple (1)

jareth-0205 (525594) | about 2 months ago | (#47798855)

The issue, or rather concern, with the on-card contact-less payments (VISA PayPass, etc.) is that someone could activate it while it was still in you wallet in your pocket via a specially designed (any maybe illegal; but that hasn't been known to stop thieves) hardware, and that this could be used a avenue for fraud. Not sure if there was ever a real life POC of this working or not.

Don't worry about it... I mean yes it is possible, but contactless has been widely rolled out in the UK for a while and the sky hasn't fallen. Ultimately you can challenge any bad charges pretty easily (if you notice them) on your statement, and since all this stuff goes tracably through the credit card system then it's not going to take many chargebacks for the dodgy reader to get them all rolled back and the criminal flagged.

Re: As much as I hate Apple (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 months ago | (#47799037)

In the UK, contactless transactions are capped at a relatively low amount, and periodically require pin entry, so in the case of fraud with them, the bank should only have to write off £80 ish at most, which is a fairly trivial amount for a bank

Re: As much as I hate Apple (4, Interesting)

IamTheRealMike (537420) | about 2 months ago | (#47799247)

More importantly, the underlying technology is totally different. VISA Europe is not at all the same as VISA USA. VISA in Europe is a coalition of banks, VISA USA is a private company. America has never rolled out EMV, making its banking industry a ridiculous joke compared to, well, everywhere else. You don't get reports of major European supermarket chains getting their PoS systems hacked and magstripes skimmed like you do in the US, because EMV is a much more secure system.

The NFC payment cards that are rolling out around the world (outside USA) now are basically a variant of EMV/Chip and PIN. The underlying crypto is the same. The card signs a challenge from the terminal. They're upgrading to elliptic curve crypto at the moment actually, not sure if all NFC cards do that or not but it would not surprise me. NFC as tried by Google in America is actually a very minor variant on just sending your magstripe data via radio. I believe the CVC code rotates (three digits of entropy lol) and the tech is based on a Secure Element hard-wired to the NFC radio. But the phone has minimal control over the actual payment transaction, thus doesn't add much value beyond being a big battery, and that's why the tech largely stalled. Also they screwed up the compatibility testing and the terminals were full of bugs that meant transactions just sort of randomly failed.

So don't be fooled. The "NFC payments" that we know outside of North America is totally different to what they call "NFC payments", which is an unfortunate piece of linguistic confusion.

Re: As much as I hate Apple (1)

alexander_686 (957440) | about 2 months ago | (#47799613)

I am missing one of your point - why does it matter that VISA is owned by bank in Europe and is private in the US? Why does that matter?

I assume that you know that VISA was a single company until 2006. At that point the US Banks cashed out by selling VISA to the public and the European bans went their own way.

Re:As much as I hate Apple (1)

Bogtha (906264) | about 2 months ago | (#47799083)

Now on a mobile phone this would be a non-issue as the NFC could be configured to only respond under certain circumstances, e.g. entering a PIN number.

It's a safe bet that any new iPhones will have the fingerprint scanner built in that can be used for this purpose.

Re:As much as I hate Apple (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 months ago | (#47798989)

He didn't say nobody has them, he said they mostly don't work and nobody cares. Staff at Walmart, Walgreens, CVS and McDonalds not caring is hardly news.

Re:As much as I hate Apple (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 months ago | (#47799033)

I tried to use an NFC enabled card at a Walmart a few months ago. It was Declined because my card was issued outside the USofA yet using it conventionally worked fine. What a load of steaming dog poo this is.
I've returned to using cash for purchases under $20 these days. Quicker and simpler (if you have the forethought to get the money ready beforehand...)

Re:As much as I hate Apple (2)

IamTheRealMike (537420) | about 2 months ago | (#47799251)

Your card was declined because they're totally different and incompatible technologies. NFC payment cards from outside the USA aren't the same as "NFC payments" inside the USA (which require mobile phones as far as I can tell).

Re:As much as I hate Apple (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 months ago | (#47799481)

In reality though, RFID payment, at least in the Android implementation I've seen, is by far more secure than magnetic strips as it isn't susceptible to skimming or any other type of replay attack.

That's why the US payment processors are rolling out cards with EMV chip-on-card now and telling merchants that starting next year any fraud costs for non-EMV transactions will be paid by the merchant instead of the payment processors.

That'll mostly kill swipe cards and should mostly kill NFC cards.

Re:As much as I hate Apple (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 months ago | (#47798711)

The think I find irritating with all of this is that Google wallet only launched in the US, when here in the UK, plenty of places accept wireless payment, I use it at least once per day and would love phone support for it.

Re:As much as I hate Apple (2)

Jack Griffin (3459907) | about 2 months ago | (#47798919)

Maybe your bank has a poor implementation, Hong Kong has had a universal contactless payment through the Oyster card since the 90's. We've had it here in Australia for a couple of years and it works well (I use it every day for everything - packet of gum, glass of beer, groceries etc, and am starting to phase out my wallet). When the bugs are ironed out in your system, this will be the way transactions are done.

Re:As much as I hate Apple (2)

jonwil (467024) | about 2 months ago | (#47798937)

I am in Australia and have Visa PayWave attached to my card yet I never use it (using EFTPOS instead) because there are fees attached to PayWave but not EFTPOS (with my bank at least) and because EFTPOS transactions show up faster and better on my online banking.

Re:As much as I hate Apple (1)

Jack Griffin (3459907) | about 2 months ago | (#47799377)

My bank gives me really good services, I'm more than happy to pay a fair price for these...

Re:As much as I hate Apple (5, Insightful)

EzInKy (115248) | about 2 months ago | (#47799501)

The only fair price to enable spending your own money is zero.

Re:As much as I hate Apple (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 months ago | (#47799413)

The NFC cards work just fine everywhere in Canada, as long as it's less than 50$.

There's a few exceptions (mainly small stores that only recently replaced their swipe POS with chip+pin POS)

Re:As much as I hate Apple (-1, Flamebait)

lucm (889690) | about 2 months ago | (#47798529)

The "as much as I hate Apple" line is getting old. That's like a sentence that starts with "I'm not racist but...".

Now that Android has won, bashing Apple is not fun anymore, so get out of the iCloset. It's safe for you out there, your brand is so far in that last descent in the late adopters segment of the technology adoption curve that even IBM wants to sell iPhones. Next stop: wal-mart checkout bins, next to the iTunes card who have been there for quite a while already.

Re:As much as I hate Apple (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 months ago | (#47798551)

Android has one what? The race to the bottom? Then I would agree with you.

Keep ignoring the tiny little thing about Apple making all the profits.

Typical iHater.

Re:As much as I hate Apple (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 months ago | (#47798657)

Keep ignoring the tiny little thing about Apple making all the profits.

Hahahaha! You're proud of being overcharged?

That Stockholm syndrome is some really powerful shit...

Re:As much as I hate Apple (3, Insightful)

Camembert (2891457) | about 2 months ago | (#47798763)

Hahahaha! You're proud of being overcharged?

That Stockholm syndrome is some really powerful shit...

Clearly you are a hater. But why waste the energy? I use an iphone 4S since 3 years and I don't mindwhen others use whatever Android device. Good for them. Good for me.

Re:As much as I hate Apple (1)

Bing Tsher E (943915) | about 2 months ago | (#47799189)

People who use terms like 'hater' are cult members. It's sort of creepy, be it scientologists, moonies, or followers of other cultish movements.

Get over it. Boogeyman 'samsung' isn't out to get your device, just like 'IBM' wasn't out to get your mac.

Re:As much as I hate Apple (2)

Camembert (2891457) | about 2 months ago | (#47799283)

Boogeyman 'samsung' isn't out to get your device, just like 'IBM' wasn't out to get your mac.

This was in fact exactly my point.

Re:As much as I hate Apple (0)

lucm (889690) | about 2 months ago | (#47798663)

I don't know where you get your information, probably on some SF local news media like techcrunch, but Samsung alone owns about 2/3 of the Android market. Which itself happens to be 85% of the smartphone market.

But of course while Apple's share keeps going down year after year, there is always a justification in the iCommunity, such as: oh people are just waiting for the iPhone5, or oh people are juste waiting for the iPhone6. Keep the dream alive if you want, but meanwhile the market has spoken. The iShare is about half what it was 5 years ago.

Re:As much as I hate Apple (1)

antifoidulus (807088) | about 2 months ago | (#47798705)

You are also oh so conveniently ignoring one tiny little fact, year over year DEVICE SALES ARE GOING UP! [statista.com] Yes, market share is going down, but that's largely because the smartphone market has been growing so fast, Apple's share of it hasn't been growing as fast as the market has. You want to know whose sales have been dipping recently? Samsungs! [techtimes.com] . But don't let those silly facts get in the way of your baseless ranting!

Re:As much as I hate Apple (5, Insightful)

Pieroxy (222434) | about 2 months ago | (#47798835)

Well, in all honesty, Apple still has the best selling smartphone, undisputed. Granted, the 127 different models Samsung produces are selling more, but Apple makes three phones in the top 6, just like Samsung. The iPhone 5c is the #1.

http://news.yahoo.com/apple-sa... [yahoo.com]

Re:As much as I hate Apple (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 months ago | (#47799745)

Well, in all honesty, Apple still has the best selling smartphone, undisputed. Granted, the 127 different models Samsung produces are selling more, but Apple makes three phones in the top 6, just like Samsung. The iPhone 5c is the #1.

http://news.yahoo.com/apple-sa... [yahoo.com]

I don't care if it's #42, I'm waiting for that blackberry passport. I love that thing.

Re:As much as I hate Apple (5, Insightful)

Bogtha (906264) | about 2 months ago | (#47799099)

Market share isn't the important factor though. iPhone sales have grown every year. Apple's profits have grown every year. They are the most profitable phone vendor by a long way. If that's failing, I'd love to fail as hard as Apple are.

Re:As much as I hate Apple (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 months ago | (#47799623)

You finally hit it on the head - Apple is nothing more than a phone manufacturer now.

Re: As much as I hate Apple (1)

Namarrgon (105036) | about 2 months ago | (#47799681)

Monocultures can be very successful. They do have associated risks though. Diversity usually wins in the end.

Apple of course are in no immediate danger, they're doing just fine. Though I do wonder why Apple fans point to their huge profits as a good thing.. Good for Apple, certainly; not quite so much for their customers.

Re: As much as I hate Apple (1)

Karlt1 (231423) | about 2 months ago | (#47799817)

Monocultures can be very successful. They do have associated risks though. Diversity usually wins in the end.

So who "won" in the PC industry?

Dell -- revenues and profits declined so badly they went private?
HP - PC division is doing so bad they almost got rid of it.
IBM -- completely left the business
Compaq - Dead
Gateway - Dead

And at the same time, who is "winning" selling Android? Samsung is about the only one and their profits are declining because of Apple on the high end and Chinese manufacturers on the low-end.

Even Google isn't "winning" with Android since the vast majority of Android phones sold worldwide are not using Google services/

Re: As much as I hate Apple (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 months ago | (#47799221)

One-one was a race horse.
Two-two was one too.
One-one won one race.
Two-two won one too.

Hope this helps, and best of luck with learning to spell.

Re:As much as I hate Apple (4, Funny)

ccguy (1116865) | about 2 months ago | (#47798597)

The "as much as I hate Apple" line is getting old. That's like a sentence that starts with "I'm not racist but...".

Quite the opposite. It would like a sentence as "I'm a racist, but that nigger is right..."

Re:As much as I hate Apple (2)

wbr1 (2538558) | about 2 months ago | (#47799295)

That sounds like it should be in Blazing Saddles.

Re:As much as I hate Apple (1)

angel'o'sphere (80593) | about 2 months ago | (#47799693)

The only thing I hate more than racists, is that nigger in my swimming pool!

Re:As much as I hate Apple (-1)

ArmoredDragon (3450605) | about 2 months ago | (#47798695)

I bashed Apple before idevices even had a name. I still remember when slashdot used to praise how great Apple computers were compared to Windows systems, how open Apple is, etc. I remember even then saying then that if Apple was in Microsoft's position, they'd also own the hardware which allows them to lock things down so tight you'd long for the old Microsoft days.

Hate to say I told you so, but...

Re:As much as I hate Apple (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 months ago | (#47799069)

I hate apple (the corporation) because it seems their ethics are non-existant (other companies are in the same group, but this is about apple). if they make good or bad products is entirely irrelevant.

Re:As much as I hate Apple (1)

Bogtha (906264) | about 2 months ago | (#47799117)

I hate apple (the corporation) because it seems their ethics are non-existent

Really? They seem to perform positive ethical acts quite regularly. Supporting gay rights. Enforcing worker rights in their contracts abroad. Making their products environmentally friendly. Improving the privacy of their users. Why do you think their ethics are non-existent?

Re:As much as I hate Apple (0)

Bing Tsher E (943915) | about 2 months ago | (#47799209)

Apple has really good brand management. Their bullet points are always gleaming, to be certain.

Why, though, is there always the need for some to seemingly worship the brand? Could it be astroturf?

Re:As much as I hate Apple (4, Insightful)

Bogtha (906264) | about 2 months ago | (#47799405)

You're really setting up a no win situation here. If they don't perform positive ethical acts, then they are unethical. If they do, then it's just "brand management bullet points".

It's funny though, how we have two people here - one calling them unethical, and one pointing out ethical things that they have done - and you perceive this as "there's somebody here worshipping the brand". Not two people with different opinions. One person with a suspect opinion. That's an odd perception.

Also, if anybody is astroturfing, I'd lay my money on the anonymous coward and not the person with a Slashdot account that is several years old with excellent karma.

Re:As much as I hate Apple (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 months ago | (#47799455)

That's because "ethics" in /. and GNU/Linux means "open sources everything including the kitchen sink"

There may be linux parts in Android, but don't let that distort the reality for the Android fans. That's still a walled garden, just like Apple and Microsoft, and the only one winning the Walled Garden profit is Apple.

Developers do not consider Android hardware to be capable of doing anything meaningful, and thus the iOS versions get priority, and unless the iOS version makes money, the Android version doesn't even get made. There's quite literately too many things running crappy versions of Android on weak parts (Samsung phones and televisions are "Android" but now they're switching some to yet-another-OS for no dang reason other than to take advantage of the fact they have 2/3rds of the Android market.)

Re: As much as I hate Apple (4, Insightful)

jrumney (197329) | about 2 months ago | (#47799343)

Some of my best friends use Macs...

Based on iCloud? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 months ago | (#47798447)

Because, what could go wrong?

But will it load EBT? (0, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 months ago | (#47798455)

Then Obama can give out Cellphones AND Food Stamps in one go. Find some way to get Siri to dispense medical advice and the ACA is covered too.

Re:But will it load EBT? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 months ago | (#47798469)

Find some way to get Siri to dispense medical advice and the ACA is covered too.

Awwww yeah. If ya get Siri to talk dirty it be cheaper than Viagra brudda. Dats what I'm talkin bout!

So it's like Google Wallet? (1)

fractoid (1076465) | about 2 months ago | (#47798457)

Any idea whether it'll work internationally? Android 4.4 has NFC transaction support but it's only actually supported in the U.S.

Re:So it's like Google Wallet? (1, Informative)

citizenr (871508) | about 2 months ago | (#47798585)

lol? whole europe is using nfc now

Re:So it's like Google Wallet? (1)

DeSigna (522207) | about 2 months ago | (#47798699)

And Australia's had it for years too. When I ordered it, I had to make sure my phone was the international version with NFC support, because the US model doesn't have it.

Re:So it's like Google Wallet? (1)

_merlin (160982) | about 2 months ago | (#47798685)

Samsung's latest phones do NFC payment in Australia. There's no reason it couldn't work, besides vendor apathy.

Has to be The Onion... ?! (0)

ReekRend (843787) | about 2 months ago | (#47798459)

Tonight? Now? This has to be an Onion post.

Otherwise it will go down as the greatest non-Onion headline that should have been on The Onion.

Cool post... (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 months ago | (#47798511)

Wow, this post is cool and nice!
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ugh (-1, Troll)

Osgeld (1900440) | about 2 months ago | (#47798531)

easily lost stolen hacked phone equipped with a radio broadcasting your CC info 24/7

not that its really better or worse than whats out there now, I just loathe the endless stories to come cause some dipshit left one in the bathroom at a bus station cause he couldn't stop playing candy crush long enough to wipe his ass in a proper manner

Re:ugh (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 months ago | (#47798767)

Citation on the NFC chip broadcasting your info 24/7?

You have to enable it in an app/widget/whatever.

Way to spread the FUD though, astroturf much?

Re:ugh (2)

gnasher719 (869701) | about 2 months ago | (#47798959)

easily lost stolen hacked phone equipped with a radio broadcasting your CC info 24/7

Easily hacked? How would you go about hacking an iPhone?

only about 10 years late (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 months ago | (#47798537)

NFC payment chips have been in Japanese phones since they got 100Mbps fibre to the premises available.
Sure, they didn't hook into visa or mastercard, but added more to your phone bill.

If Apple is going to be taking a cut of the transactions, then perhaps this is why they bought their stock back?

Bad timing, Apple (3, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 months ago | (#47798547)

Considering iCloud was hacked and massive amounts of nude celebrity photos were taken from it, people probably aren't too trusting of your security at this point.

Future Apple "Pickings" (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 months ago | (#47798783)

Future Apple "Pickings" will include chopping of one's fingers and blunt force trauma to the head for maximum criminal spending enjoyment.

Re:Bad timing, Apple (4, Informative)

Bogtha (906264) | about 2 months ago | (#47798977)

That's just 4chan rumours at the moment. No point in taking them seriously unless there's confirmation.

Re:Bad timing, Apple (1)

u38cg (607297) | about 2 months ago | (#47799353)

Wise words.

Re:Bad timing, Apple (1)

TheRaven64 (641858) | about 2 months ago | (#47799555)

It was on the BBC news this morning, which probably counts as more reliable than 4chan. Most interesting was the claim by one of the women involved that the photos had been deleted. If this is true, then it would be a great example of the fact that just because something is 'deleted' in the cloud doesn't mean that malicious people can't get at it in the future...

Re:Bad timing, Apple (4, Informative)

AmiMoJo (196126) | about 2 months ago | (#47799561)

It appears to be confirmed now: http://www.bbc.co.uk/newsbeat/... [bbc.co.uk]

Worryingly some of the affected claim that the images which were leaked had been deleted years ago. If you want your iCloud account deleted rather than just made inactive you have to call Apple and get a tech to call you back.

Re:Bad timing, Apple (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 months ago | (#47799655)

I don't see the confirmation of how the photos were obtained. Where is that coming from? Is that the 4chan part?

Apple said *what* to the team? (0)

Rosco P. Coltrane (209368) | about 2 months ago | (#47798549)

Look, I'm not picky or anything, and I know headlines are shortened, but what the hell does " Apple Said To Team With Visa, MasterCard On iPhone Wallet" mean?

Re:Apple said *what* to the team? (1)

Rosco P. Coltrane (209368) | about 2 months ago | (#47798563)

Ah nevermind, I got it. It's not terribly obvious though...

Re:Apple said *what* to the team? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 months ago | (#47799097)

Shortening titles into the url is horrible but makes for the occasional funny link. But it is not really any better than calling the article some random/serial number - except SEO.

Nothing really new (2)

Stormwatch (703920) | about 2 months ago | (#47798555)

What's the big deal? Mobile payment exists since the late 1990s.

Re:Nothing really new (3, Insightful)

bogaboga (793279) | about 2 months ago | (#47798605)

What's the big deal?

Hundreds of millions of potential customers will have this technology on Apple's [single] platform. Keyword: "Single."

Now don't talk of Android because we know it's all fragmented.

Blackberry? Well, this is of no consequence.

Microsoft? It still doesn't matter.

Who else? Got your answer: Anyone cares about this? I doubt.

Mobile payment exists since the late 1990s.

Yes, but Apple's gonna finally do it "right."

Re:Nothing really new (1)

aNonnyMouseCowered (2693969) | about 2 months ago | (#47798857)

I'm not sure if Google already has a solution (I still use a highly anonymous payment system called cash for most of my financial transactions). But all Android needs is the right API and vendors can potentially design their phones to that spec using components from any of the dozen or so semiconductor manufacturers that matter (Samsung, Qualcomm, Broadcom, etc). I mean why can't the hardware component of the payment system not be a "standard" like Bluetooth or 3G? The software part is clearly Google's problem, but the supposed fragmentation of Android isn't an unsurmountable hurdle for a unified mobile payment system.

Re:Nothing really new (2, Insightful)

AmiMoJo (196126) | about 2 months ago | (#47799261)

Android fragmentation is irrelevant. The number of NFC enabled Android phones vastly outnumbers the number of Apple NFC enabled phones, which is currently zero. Even if the iPhone six sells as well as the iPhone 5 before it the market for Apple vs. Android payments (and all NFC enabled Android devices support it, regardless of OS version) will probably force Apple to be compatible at some stage.

Re:Nothing really new (2)

c (8461) | about 2 months ago | (#47799509)

Hundreds of millions of potential customers will have this technology on Apple's [single] platform. Keyword: "Single."

Seeing how NFC typically needs hardware support, it would be starting with this generation of devices, and unless Apple does something different from the usual "downgrade existing top tier models and drop the bottom" then only the top end and most expensive models for the next couple years will have it.

Unless they sell a lower-priced iWatch or some other dongle that "expands" the existing iPhone range to support NFC (which would actually be pretty smart of them, so I wouldn't be surprised) or unless the last couple generations of devices have sold with disabled NFC hardware buried inside, it's not unreasonable to say that there will be NFC versus non-NFC fragmentation for at least another year.

Re:Nothing really new (1)

Threni (635302) | about 2 months ago | (#47799807)

> Now don't talk of Android because we know it's all fragmented.

Wow - people still say that in 2014? This is still a tech site, right? Windows has users on different sized monitors, and slightly different versions of Windows - I guess that's fragmented too.

Re:Nothing really new (1)

cjeze (596987) | about 2 months ago | (#47798639)

The big deal is that they are going to be able to do it better than everyone else. Currently mobile payments suck. By teaming up with the major card companies and using the newest available technology they will be able to make mobile payments mainstream.

No more cards, cheques or cash required on boats, buses, taxis, shops, quik-marts, gas-stations, restaurants, hardware stores etc..

Re:Nothing really new (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 months ago | (#47798933)

"The big deal is that they are going to be able to do it better than everyone else."

First of all, it's not Apple that will be making the apps to drive CC NFC payments, it's the banks.

Second, there is no 'doing it better'...It's just NFC and there's nothing innovative about it anymore. It's pretty much useless unless brick and mortar stores accept those types of payments.

Re:Nothing really new (1)

Tamran (1424955) | about 2 months ago | (#47799349)

This is already available for the iPhone and you can buy it for under $20:

http://www.shoeme.ca/products/... [shoeme.ca]

Security... (1)

Keyboard Rage (3448471) | about 2 months ago | (#47798649)

Let's hope Apple's new fingerprint reader is better than their previous one: http://www.theguardian.com/tec... [theguardian.com]

Re: Security... (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 months ago | (#47799271)

Compared this to current payment systems, eg four-digit pin (fairly easily peeked at), or no PIN on small wireless transactions (eg below £20 on my bank), or just having a signature and no PIN at all (common in US?), or waving cash around.

I think a fingerprint hack involving lifting fingerprints and sculpting moulds and resin and stuff is a pretty remote risk.
And while the hackers are playing CSI with your fingerprints, you are likely to notice your phone is lost, and remotely disable it (or track it), as you would a stolen credit card for that matter.

NGH (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 months ago | (#47798667)

Despite this tech being available for several years at least, the only places I've seen that support it (or at least have payment terminals that supposedly support it) are Walgreens and Arby's.

For this to work, you have to

a.) convince hundreds of millions of folks that its more convenient than a card swipe, and
b.) convince millions of business owners that its worth the investment in new POS equipment.

And it's a chicken and the egg type problem. A won't happen until B happens, and B won't happen until A happens. The MUCH better idea is the electronic card that uses existing POS hardware (i.e. mag strip readers):

https://onlycoin.com/

Perhaps if you had a device that could do BOTH mag strips AND NFC you'd get some traction. But as long as I have to still carry around my wallet AND my phone in the most likely even that they particularly retailer won't have NFC, I'll just keep carrying around my wallet, TYVM. NFC payment is neat-o, but outside of niche applications even Apple won't be able to get the traction necessary to make it mainstream anytime soon.

Re:NGH (1)

_merlin (160982) | about 2 months ago | (#47798849)

Coin is going to be dead in the water as soon as US requires chip cards. The whole point of chip cards is that the key never leaves the chip and it can't be copied. They talk about supporting it in the future but can't elaborate on a plan, as they don't have one. They also have blatant misinformation about "chip and sign" on their site. "Chip and sign" uses the ICC chip to verify card presence, but you sign the receipt rather than entering a PIN. The Coin people claim you still use the magnetic strip, but that just plain isn't true.

Why? Nobody uses NFC payments (1)

Animats (122034) | about 2 months ago | (#47798687)

A few years ago, those Google NFC payment terminals were all over Silicon Valley. Nobody used them. Newer credit card terminals show no sign of supporting them, although some apparently have the hardware inside for it.

Another problem is that if the technology just requires the phone's presence, not interaction on the phone, it's insecure. "Near field communication" is only supposed to be up to 20cm, but a 2013 paper at Black Hat demonstrated connectivity at 100cm, which is good enough for crime. If it does require interaction on the phone, the user has to activate the phone, navigate to some app, and deal with the app. This is slower than swiping a credit card.

It's easier to do than card-reader skimmers.

Why? Nobody uses NFC payments (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 months ago | (#47798799)

Simple solution -- same as for receiving a phone call: when the phone detects and NFC payment request it automatically launches an approve/deny dialog. For added security, this dialog could require entering a pin or other code.

Re:Why? Nobody uses NFC payments (1)

_merlin (160982) | about 2 months ago | (#47798859)

We have NFC credit cards in Australia now. They don't seem to have caused a big uptick in fraud. Also, the worst you could do from a distance (assuming you could communicate with the card for long enough) would be to process a payment of up to $100 - you can't actually copy the card.

Re:Why? Nobody uses NFC payments (2)

IamTheRealMike (537420) | about 2 months ago | (#47799265)

NFC payment cards in Australia/Europe cryptographically sign a challenge from the terminal, using basically standard crypto. It's EMV all the way. In-person magstripe payments are carefully controlled and risk analysed to ensure they only occur if, for example, the card is broken - or outright banned.

NFC payments in the USA involve the phone sending regular magstripe data to the terminal, with only the CVC code being some kind of cryptographic derivative - a three digit number (less than 1000). The reason for this crazy setup is so merchants don't have to update their backend/PoS systems that still expect magstripe data. There is no plan to perform a complete upgrade thus old style transactions cannot be phased out. It's a dramatically less secure system.

Re:Why? Nobody uses NFC payments (1)

_merlin (160982) | about 2 months ago | (#47799449)

US is really that backwards? And I thought the "offline mode" in Europe where the card verifies the PIN was bad enough.

Re:Why? Nobody uses NFC payments (1)

turp182 (1020263) | about 2 months ago | (#47799593)

With KitKat (Android 4.4 on a Nexus 5), you press the button to wake the phone, tap on the payment thing (starts Google Wallet, no interaction other than the tap), then enter a PIN number for Google Wallet (the user interaction/verification). There's another tap to verify the total and you are done. There is no scenario that doesn't require the PIN.

I wish my local grocery stores supported it.

Vista?? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 months ago | (#47798717)

For a moment I read the headline as

Apple Said To Team With Vista, ... :-O

Why all the negativity (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 months ago | (#47798751)

I don't get all the negative comments.

Here in Australia we've had RFID (paypass & paywave) for 3+ years, all fine, great, and is now more commonly used than pin/signature (and that'll grow more given signatures are now officially phased out nation-wide as of ... today I believe?)

NFC ATM access has been around for a good year, I don't even open my wallet when going to an ATM anymore - I open up an app on my iPhone, tap a button on the ATM, enter my pin, and withdraw my cash.

NFC payments at EFTPOS machines here in AU can be done with Galaxy S4's currently, a lot of EFTPOS terminals here support them already, and just like PayWave/PayPass I don't quite see why it wouldn't move just as rapidly.

The only negative side-effect is theft, however this is going to have to happen with both the app open, and you're going to need to accept the charges on your phone... so I personally see this as MORE secure than RFID payments, not less...

RFID payments, despite being hugely insecure and implicitly accepting charges of up to $100 without any confirmation (eg: a pin), have still been massively popular, and most reported thefts have revolved around cases where peoples credit cards were physically stolen anyway... there's to date, not been any high-tech RFID theft going on from people walking through shopping malls (at least here in AU) - this is ignoring the fact anyone remotely tech savvy has an RFID protected wallet by now anyway.

Re:Why all the negativity (2)

frnic (98517) | about 2 months ago | (#47799465)

The negativity is because this is Slashdot. The second reason is that it is about Apple.

"Nothing new" - yeah, and cell phones existed years before iPhone - how did that work out.

Haters will hate.

Hope for good cloud security (-1, Redundant)

Hamsterdan (815291) | about 2 months ago | (#47798775)

Since there was a massive leak of personal celebrity pics a couple hours ago, some cloud providers aren't that secure.

Anyone have an idea who was the cloud provider?

Re:Hope for good cloud security (1)

Hamsterdan (815291) | about 2 months ago | (#47798779)

Please disregard previous comment, reading multiple forums at once ain't such a good idea after all.

This could be big (1)

Camembert (2891457) | about 2 months ago | (#47798787)

NFC exists since several years but there is not exactly general, widespread take-up. Whether you like Apple or not, they are in a good position to enable wide adoption. Their products tend to offer accessible funtionality, and they are big enough to leverage their relationship with the credit card companies, hence I can see them having success.

Even so this is part of normal technical evolution. If Apple doesn't crack the nut, eventually someone else will. I am more interested in the expected wearable health-oriented device (probably an iwatch) that will likely be announced as well next week. Smartwatches in general are terribly nerdy and unattractive, yet a succesful health-oriented product could be a quality of life improver. It could be a big thing.

When is a PR bot not a PR bot? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 months ago | (#47798895)

When it's a ..."according to a person familiar with the situation." bot.

It is time someone belled the cat. But wish.. (4, Informative)

140Mandak262Jamuna (970587) | about 2 months ago | (#47798943)

I am really glad something like this is long over due. But I wish we are not jumping from duopoly to a monopoly.

The cost of handling transactions is steadily diminishing. There was a time it would cost you something between 49$ and 149$ to place a single trade. It dropped to well below 10$ when I was still trading. Would not be surprised if they give you money to place a trade or something now. Compare it to the debit card transaction.

When it comes to creditcard I would not begrudge the 2% to 5% fee charged to the merchants. The credit card companies are essentially advancing an unsecured loan, and it would cost the individual merchants much more to check and advance credit to their customers. (Of course it there is some real competition the percentage might come down). But it is the debit card transaction that is atrocious. Money comes from the bank, there is no risk involved. There was a very nice system, including PIN numbers to manage the POS terminals. Way back when stock trade was 49$, it was 25 cent per transaction irrespective of the size of transaction. This should have become zero. But that is not what happened.

The Visa and Mastecard combined to discourage ATM cards and the POS terminals and undermined the system. They made debit and credit card to go through the same system. And the merchants were forced to pay 2% transaction fees on risk free money transfer from one bank to another.

The time is ripe, with prepaid cards and stored value cards for really cheap and free micro transactions. It took the clout of Apple to hit the music executives on their head and make them wake up, smell the coffee and realize the days of selling single track with 10 more useless tracks for 19$ per CD are gone. It might take such a juggernaut like Apple to make the bankers come around the bend and give up their 2% commission on risk free transactions.

But I wish we are not going from the duopoly of MC + Visa to a monopoly of AppStore. Well one thing at a time. Once the bankers get used to lower fees commensurate with the cost of transactions, may be alternatives to AppStore might emerge, and the system might become more open.

Re:It is time someone belled the cat. But wish.. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 months ago | (#47798995)

BITCOIN!

end of story

Re:It is time someone belled the cat. But wish.. (2)

Mr_Silver (213637) | about 2 months ago | (#47799133)

There was a very nice system, including PIN numbers to manage the POS terminals. Way back when stock trade was 49$, it was 25 cent per transaction irrespective of the size of transaction. This should have become zero. But that is not what happened.

The 25 cent transaction fee is charged by the acquiring bank, not Visa and Mastercard - whose fees for debit are typically 1 cent per transaction as they are a volume based business.

The reason that acquirers charge is because they incur costs associated with that transaction (including, but not limited to, interchange fees). If they didn't charge, it would fail as a viable business model.

Pre-paid cards still have to use Visa or MC to get the request for the money from the acquirer (who has the relationship with the merchant and typically provides the terminal) to the card issuer (the bank that supplied the pre-paid card).

Regarding AppStore vs MC+Visa, in order for Apple to be able to accept payments directly they would have to get an e-money licence so they could issue virtual debit or credit cards for use on their phones. By doing so, they'd still need the rails that Visa and MC provide - unless they really want to get into the business of connecting themselves to all the banks worldwide (aka becoming a payment processor).

The art of confusing headlines (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 months ago | (#47799075)

"Apple Said To Team With Visa, MasterCard On iPhone Wallet": In a move intended to "team" with Visa, Apple have added MasterCard to iPhone Wallet. The question is, is this completely nonsensical or is iPhone Wallet so harmful it aids Visa by damaging the competitor's reputation?

Countdown until it is hacked... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 months ago | (#47799833)

Starts now. I give it 6 months to a year.
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