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Changing the Rules of a 15-Year-Old Game: Quake Live Update Causes Controversy

Soulskill posted about a month and a half ago | from the sleep-is-for-the-weak dept.

Quake 170

An anonymous reader writes: As id Software aims for a larger, more mainstream audience for its free-to-play shooter Quake Live (based on 1998's Quake III Arena) on Steam, big changes are afoot. A new update was pushed out last week which adds some new, more beginner-friendly features to the game. These include weapon loadouts, which grant players a weapon of their choice when they spawn, timer icons, which indicate when the all-important powerup items will spawn, and an automatic bunny-hop to gain extra speed. The changes have been met with hostility from longtime players who prefer the "purist" rules of old and the duel format. As the writer points out, however, if the update helps attract more elite players to the gamer, it could breathe new life into a very old game.

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It ain't no Team Fortress Classic (0, Offtopic)

msobkow (48369) | about a month and a half ago | (#47814021)

TFC was the game. :)

Re: It ain't no Team Fortress Classic (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a month and a half ago | (#47814049)

Quake TFC with the Simpsons sound effects. Man I played that game to death. Tourneys, LAN parties. This Quakelive update nonsense is the final blow to an otherwise epic franchise. Who remembers using Quakespy anyway? Besides fossils like me.

Re: It ain't no Team Fortress Classic (1)

theArtificial (613980) | about a month and a half ago | (#47814053)

Uh oh, my heart just stopped... there it goes. I vividly recall the happy bday stuff too. Good times

Re: It ain't no Team Fortress Classic (1)

Anonymous Coward | about a month and a half ago | (#47814181)

That was MegaTF you dolt!

Re: It ain't no Team Fortress Classic (1)

theArtificial (613980) | about a month and a half ago | (#47814645)

After downloading the QWTF 2.8 and then exploring the .PAK file looks like you're right. MegaTF sounds may be found here: http://tfgames.org/sound [tfgames.org] look under barney.

Re: It ain't no Team Fortress Classic (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a month and a half ago | (#47814721)

Welcome to Gamespy!

Re: It ain't no Team Fortress Classic (1)

Bengie (1121981) | about a month and a half ago | (#47815305)

I remember when it was called QuakeSpy. The days of getting snipped in the water of 2fort and asking "how did you see me?!", to get a response of "QuakeGL with a Voodoo". I eventually got a Voodoo2 12MB, which had a 4MB frame buffer and two sets of 4MB texture buffers, one for each TMU, but the textures were duplicated, so wasted memory. The Voodoo2 could process "textels", which allowed a single layer of transparent textures with almost no performance cost. I purchased an after market Stealth cooler, because the basic card didn't use a heatsink

I used that Voodoo2 all the way into CounterStrike. I played on the first public beta. At many times, there were no people online playing CS, so I would hang out in the lowest ping server waiting. With about 3-8 CS servers to choose from, there wasn't much choice. It seems there are a few more CS servers these days.

It ain't no Team Fortress Classic (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a month and a half ago | (#47814061)

Kaizen bitch

Re:It ain't no Team Fortress Classic (1)

Anonymous Coward | about a month and a half ago | (#47814135)

TFC was the game. :)

QWTF was the game. :)

Fixed that for you.

Re:It ain't no Team Fortress Classic (2)

Simmeh (1320813) | about a month and a half ago | (#47814981)

You seem to have misspelt WFA.

Re:It ain't no Team Fortress Classic (1)

LoRdTAW (99712) | about a month and a half ago | (#47815579)

Oh man, WFA. Those were the days. From there it was off to TFC and then CS beta 2/3.

Re:It ain't no Team Fortress Classic (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a month and a half ago | (#47814997)

Ah, I just loved the servers that had that nice mix of the classic divided maps together with a few semi-gimmicky ones.
No better way to get some variety to 2fort5, bases and well6 than rock, 2nuke2 and engbat.
That time the server admin screwed up the config and the votemap became playable was fun too, for about 5 minutes.

Re:It ain't no Team Fortress Classic (1)

msobkow (48369) | about a month and a half ago | (#47816169)

I have no idea how many weekends we got together for a night at the office for a TFC fest. We used to have about a dozen regular players, so it was enough to keep things fun without overloading the server at the office. Our bosses were big into gaming, so all the machines were equipped with 3D cards for those weekend gatherings.

Good times, man, good times.

For me, that was the heyday of gaming. But to be honest, it was the people that made it so much fun; the games were actually relatively primitive when compared to modern eye-candy.

How about making it more fun? (1, Insightful)

Tamran (1424955) | about a month and a half ago | (#47814023)

Or better yet, making a new game that people will buy rather than still trying to cash in on a 1998 game which is 16 years old.

Re: How about making it more fun? (1)

frikken lazerz (3788987) | about a month and a half ago | (#47814039)

But but but! That would actually require thinking, creative ideas, and hard work! Much easier to take a page out of EA's book and just put lipstick on the pig and call it a day.

Re: How about making it more fun? (1)

Anonymous Coward | about a month and a half ago | (#47814109)

EA would just re-release it and call it a new game. At least this way they're being honest.

Re: How about making it more fun? (3, Funny)

Opportunist (166417) | about a month and a half ago | (#47814445)

You're way too hard on them. That's not all they do before releasing the game.

They'd also slap the current year onto the title. How else would you know it's a new game? From looking at it? Please...

Re: How about making it more fun? (1)

ganjadude (952775) | about a month and a half ago | (#47815915)

would it? are any of the 20 different call of duty games any more than re-releasing the same game over and over, with slightly new graphics and maps?? How is this any different?

cheap gameplay changes (1)

Anonymous Coward | about a month and a half ago | (#47814091)

They are experimenting in gameplay on an already paid for codebase, for a free game. I'm not complaining.

How about making it more fun? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a month and a half ago | (#47814107)

Yeah, because I'm LOVING the latest SimCity, and totally don't wish they stuck to the SC2k/SC3k format

How about making it more fun? (4, Insightful)

slux (632202) | about a month and a half ago | (#47814405)

They're trying to keep this old game alive and with a community. I think the initial release of Quake Live, or this move, has little to do with cashing in and very much to do with love of the game.<br><br>Moreover, "making it more fun" is pretty much what they are attempting. It's been a known problem for a long time that a new player will get completely owned when they first try, it's just such a brutally skill-based game and a small pool of players makes large skill differences more likely in matchmaking. Few people enjoy total domination by their opponent.<br><br>Quake 3/Quake Live used to be a living esport, now most of the big tournaments are gone. The game is beautiful, especially when played at a professional level. I'm all for any attempts to revitalize this genre so that the FPS duel might still be a thing in esports in the future. Of course the risk here is that the game becomes unrecognizeable.

Re: How about making it more fun? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a month and a half ago | (#47814865)

I, for one, like a steep learning curve.

I also play Dark Souls.

Re:How about making it more fun? (1)

ganjadude (952775) | about a month and a half ago | (#47815925)

Ill be honest I havent played it since 2001 as Q3arena, I was taking my CCNA and we would spend 1/2 the class doing the work, and the other 1/2 fraging the teacher.

Re:How about making it more fun? (1)

future assassin (639396) | about a month and a half ago | (#47814639)

Give Xonotic a try http://www.xonotic.org/ [xonotic.org] . From normal weapons, to minsta. to shot gun and camping rifle only servers to servers with vehicles.

Re:How about making it more fun? (1)

i.r.id10t (595143) | about a month and a half ago | (#47815767)

And yet, some of us still play QuakeWorld on a regular basis. There are still servers out there, setting up LAN play is trivial, and for me the fun has always been playing with others - I've only played single player enough to figure out controls, learn a few maps, and test moves out.

Re:How about making it more fun? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a month and a half ago | (#47816103)

Or better yet, making a new game that people will buy rather than still trying to cash in on a 1998 game which is 16 years old.

As id Software aims for a larger, more mainstream audience for its free-to-play shooter[...]

What, you couldn't even read the first sentence of TFS?

The problem with Quake live is... (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about a month and a half ago | (#47814071)

... that when I originally heard it I thought they were going to basically make the 'real' sequel to quake 3, and redo all the graphics/models /w modern tech, but it's just Q3A with a web interface and less mods/flexibility of the original.

Re:The problem with Quake live is... (2)

epyT-R (613989) | about a month and a half ago | (#47814235)

Yup. People got lazy and stopped hosting quake3 servers. Today's gamers want it spoonfed through a needle, now, and newbified. There are only a few up now which is too bad.

Xonotic is an alright replacement, but the weapons aren't delineated enough. This is because there are too many, creating too much overlap in use. Also, the auto bunnyhop and my little pony models have to go. That brony shit has to die.

Re:The problem with Quake live is... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a month and a half ago | (#47814415)

oh yeah you were so l337 hosting your own quake 3 server, it was totally hard and badass, kids these days are just drones amirite?!

Re:The problem with Quake live is... (1)

theArtificial (613980) | about a month and a half ago | (#47814701)

Perhaps, it might explain why they're fatter and slower than their parents were [nydailynews.com] . At least if they were busybodies they'd be moving around. Why do you hate America?

Re:The problem with Quake live is... (1)

JackieBrown (987087) | about a month and a half ago | (#47815667)

Perhaps, it might explain why they're fatter and slower than their parents were [nydailynews.com] . At least if they were busybodies they'd be moving around. Why do you hate America?

Probably ties in with the mentality of calling video games sports
http://games.slashdot.org/comm... [slashdot.org]

Re:The problem with Quake live is... (1)

anavictoriasaavedra (1968822) | about a month and a half ago | (#47815125)

Spot-on. You'd have my mod points if I had any. I miss those days when you could host your own Q3A or UT server. Sad shift.

Re:The problem with Quake live is... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a month and a half ago | (#47815243)

How can you possibly "miss those days when you could host your own" when people are hosting their own Q3A and UT servers online RIGHT NOW. There are still hundreds of servers.

Re:The problem with Quake live is... (1)

mrchaotica (681592) | about a month and a half ago | (#47815529)

Maybe what we need is a distributed (and Free) replacement server browser.

Doom by boredom (5, Insightful)

zephvark (1812804) | about a month and a half ago | (#47814083)

It's the same thing that's taken down games like World of Warcraft. They kept making it easier and easier, hoping to gain more players. After a while, the game is just too simple and repetitive to interest anyone. The whole thing just collapses.

Yeah, WoW is technically still around, but the players have been dropping out so badly that they have to consolidate realms now, instead of bringing out new ones. Even so, it's alarmingly vacant.

Re:Doom by boredom (1)

Anonymous Coward | about a month and a half ago | (#47814239)

WoW was repetitive in the beginning. For example, repetitive tedious raid trash.

Not so much now. And they've added a ton of innovative options for quests like vehicle modes, story modes, and more.

Obviously you've believed the rants, but you know what? Harder is not better, and the game is worth playing.

Re:Doom by boredom (1, Insightful)

Dan Askme (2895283) | about a month and a half ago | (#47815319)

WoW was repetitive in the beginning.

It was hard and required some skill. Thats what made it enjoyable.

And they've added a ton of innovative options for quests like vehicle modes, story modes, and more.

All to slow the progression of the game down, essentially making you subscribe for longer.
Instances now require you to wait for "storyline" triggers, even if you have played them 100 times over.

Obviously you've believed the rants, but you know what? Harder is not better, and the game is worth playing.

I left WoW a few years back for the sole reason it was "too easy, too casual" and the ingame gear rewards meant nothing as anyone can achieve them if they have time.

I'd love to see the current player base try the original ragnaros as level 60's in vanilla. Its hard yes, but so much more rewarding when you win.

In regards to the Quake Live changes.
Its simply a case of trying to merge gamers from the "easy game that lasts 4 hours and tells you how to play with cutscenes" console background into the PC "Rewarding you for mastering a game using your own initiative" market.
I can see why they are doing it, just a shame they have to numb the game down that fucking much to accommodate the ADHD community of console gamers.

Re:Doom by boredom (2)

dywolf (2673597) | about a month and a half ago | (#47815431)

"It was hard" ... ...
No it most definitely wasnt. everyone who's said it's too easy now, its too casual, it was better back then.....is full of it.
This pretty much perfectly describes you folks: http://www.darklegacycomics.co... [darklegacycomics.com]

Re:alarmingly vacant? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a month and a half ago | (#47814257)

Yes, they're down to a paltry 7,000,000 subscribers as of August 2014.

Why not tell us how many subscribers YOUR kewl game has? Since you obviously know so much more than those dumb Blizzard people.

Re:alarmingly vacant? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a month and a half ago | (#47814497)

A dog turd on the sidewalk had at least that many flies hovering around. It has to be good you know.

WoW isn't even a game anymore. It's something between a social sandbox, interactive tv show, and carefully crafted behavioral/visual drug.

Re:alarmingly vacant? (1)

rebelwarlock (1319465) | about a month and a half ago | (#47814549)

That's down from 16,000,000 a couple years ago. So yes, that's a major loss.

Re: alarmingly vacant? (1)

Anonymous Coward | about a month and a half ago | (#47814877)

7 million subscriptions =/= 7 million players.

As someone who played EverQuest back in the day, playing 6 accounts by yourself to run through the Plane of Hate was rateer easy to do.

Re:Doom by boredom (2)

gweihir (88907) | about a month and a half ago | (#47814355)

That is exactly the problem. Making it easier does not attract many besides a few cretins that do not understand the concept of "skill". At the same time, the easier it gets the less challenge for those that actually want some challenge. Original WoW was extremely hard sometimes, but you felt you really had accomplished something and remember things years later. I once tanked Scholomance with my Shaman. (Possible, but do not ask how often we died in the boss-fights.) These days, things are either easy or impossible. That is not fun at all.

Re:Doom by boredom (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about a month and a half ago | (#47814709)

WoW was never hard. It was a grind. The hardest part about WoW was getting 39 dumbasses to pay attention and move out of the fire. Other than that it was basically dance dance revolution.

Re:Doom by boredom (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a month and a half ago | (#47815147)

So, so much this. That seems to be the hardest part in every MMO really ... finding 10/20/25/40 other people who aren't just plain simple.

Re:Doom by boredom (1)

Anonymous Coward | about a month and a half ago | (#47814725)

No, these days the first few raid encounters (normal and heroic; not talking LFR) start out easy, and then you soon enough hit some walls that will get gradually easier once your raid team learns the encounter mechanics and get better at both the fight and using their class. Even though some of the encounters are very hard, none of them are impossible. And why wouldn't you feel a sense of accomplishment spending weeks/months learning and beating an encounter now? At least it's more fun than spending months grinding resist gear (yay, the good old days). Sure, you get showered in purples the second you reach max level, but hell, that's just a color now. You don't get the top tier gear for free now either. And let's not talk about the silly amounts of achievements and other things you can do in the game now. There's something for everyone.

Re:Doom by boredom (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a month and a half ago | (#47814845)

WoW hard? Maybe in the beta, never played that. However, WoW gained it's insanely huge marketshare due to polish and easy grind to gain new levels. WoW made modern RPGs into an "follow the quest arrow to succeed"-type of game. A system where it's almost impossible NOT to level up.

In its day, this was brilliant, since quest-writers never really learnt how to create engaging and meaningful quests anyways, and most people just wanted rewards for their playtime.

WoW evolved from EverQuest which evolved from the text-based MUD/MOO-realms. If you'd like some perspective, there were text-based MUDs in the early 90s that cost money BOTH to play (ie. monthly costs) AND to buy special PvP equipment and whatnot. People lost their education and careers over these things then too. Just not en-masse as today. The games were hugely innovative and varied, compared to today's standard fare, wether it be RPGs or first person shooters. Incidentally these two are starting to converge into an unholy mix of blandness.

There are hugely innovative games today as well. As always, they are "hard" to find.
One example (non-RPG) is: Left 4 Dead 2
A good example of a truly innovative / ground-breaking RPG: the Ultima Underworld series

Such games can always be picked up again and played, again and again. Especially L4D2 is a type of game in which you can play a thousand games and still learn something new on your 1001th attempt. Everything in the game is incredibly balanced to favour the experienced, as true games should be. To become experienced should be its own reward, not what shiny armour you have spent real $$$ to purchase through an online "store" (idiot-tax).

Sadly, the add-ons and distributed server system of L4D2 is making the game age, as more and more servers are posted as "official", but full of cheats and game-breaking changes. This can be fixed, but the community is really waiting for L4D3, hoping it will continue to innovate. Only time will tell.

Re:Doom by boredom (1)

haqrboi (1263144) | about a month and a half ago | (#47814885)

See, I think this is one of the points where people always clash; levelling and end-game. Levelling in WoW has indeed become incredibly easy, I'll give you that. But a large group of players see the actual game as all the stuff that happens after you reach max level.

So yes, by your definition, WoW is easy, but seen by the players that see end-game as the actual game, it is not. And no, if you say it isn't hard, either you haven't played it for years, or you have a super-hardcore guild that can actually kill everything on heroic without breaking a sweat. There aren't a lot of those guilds around.

About quest quality, for something else entirely, try giving The Secret World a try. The questing/levelling experience is very nice, with nice story, plot and atmosphere. The end-game is incredibly boring and grindy after a while, though, so you might not want to get too much into that. It's also incredibly buggy in some areas.

Re:Doom by boredom (1)

Lonewolf666 (259450) | about a month and a half ago | (#47814897)

These days, things are either easy or impossible. That is not fun at all.

This.

Too easy or too hard are both unfun. There is a right degree of difficulty, and it is not the same for everyone.
Publishers who make their games easier to help newbies get into the game will lose veteran players who get bored.

Re:Doom by boredom (2)

gstoddart (321705) | about a month and a half ago | (#47816211)

Ford was vague in explaining exactly how his plan would be paid for. He cited a number of funding options, including money from senior levels of government, development charges, the sale of air rights and asset sales.

Well, speaking as one of the skill-less cretins ... many video games (especially a FPS) left me in the dust years ago. I simply can't play them.

I don't have the ability to operate all of the buttons at once, and can't do the fine grained aiming and the like.

I'm just too old and slow, and the dexterity isn't there. I'm not saying an on-line game should be dumbed down to my level, but for an offline game, if the game doesn't have some rubber banding to account for my complete lack of skill, I won't even play it.

So, either you make something which needs m4d sk1ll5, and only a small amount of the potential market will ever play your game ... or you figure out how to make it appealing to more people, possibly at the risk of losing some of the hardcore gamers. But, who's the bigger market?

It's games like this why I simply have no interest in playing any form of online game. Because after the first 10 minutes when I've demonstrated I'm just a sitting duck, I give up and stop playing entirely.

Re:Doom by boredom (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a month and a half ago | (#47814479)

It worked. On release it was far easier than EQ1 for example and then they tried to make EQ1 and EQ2 easier and easier, too. I miss the times when you simple couldn't rush into a new area and had to proceed carefully.

Re:Doom by boredom (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a month and a half ago | (#47814577)

... the game is just too simple and repetitive to interest anyone ...

When 'Quake 3' was released, reviews described it as more eye-candy than game. It doesn't have the power-ups of 'Duke 3D'. It doesn't have the teamwork of 'Counter-strike'. I think also, the level-maps were small.

Re:Doom by boredom (3)

haqrboi (1263144) | about a month and a half ago | (#47814839)

Simple and repetitive? That's how it was long ago (silly amounts of pointless grinding for months, 40 man raids where you needed maybe 10 good players, and the rest just had to avoid stepping in shit). The raid mechanics in normal and heroic raids are actually interesting and challenging now, unlike way back when. Or maybe you want to claim that any noob can just go in and faceroll all the way through the heroic raids? I think the reason for wow losing players is more that there are an increasing number of fun alternatives available now, and that, even though some of us think wow good, it's nice with a change of scenery after years of playing.

Re:Doom by boredom (1)

silentcoder (1241496) | about a month and a half ago | (#47816143)

I'd say the main reason is that WoD has been delayed way too long, this is the longest expansion lull in the history of the game... frankly, we've done everything in there a million times and even veterans like me (and my wife) have stopped playing until 6.0 drops.

Re:Doom by boredom (1)

portwojc (201398) | about a month and a half ago | (#47815649)

It worked for Star Wars Galaxies it'll work for Quake Live.

Re:Doom by boredom (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a month and a half ago | (#47815927)

Not quite. WoW is a different type of game. The problem with FPS games in a LONG established community is that eventually only the most obsessed fans remain. Distilled down to the 'hardcore' players you might say. Over the years those players leave and no one replaces them, like a white dwarf star slowly cooling it may take many years, but it will eventually cool down to a lifeless husk.

Attempting to join in on the 'scene' in these twitchy FPS games is an exercise in frustration. You missed the curve on people learning the skills and now you are faced with the literal hardcore players as your opponents and never got the chance to cut your teeth with fellow newbies. Unless you provide some sort of avenue for new blood to refresh the hardened players who are trickling away, you will end up with that dark lifeless husk of a game, and that's no fun for anyone.

Looks like a good move (5, Insightful)

cold fjord (826450) | about a month and a half ago | (#47814085)

They are adding the new while making the previous behavior accessible. FTA:

Classic Quake Live isn't being abandoned

While these changes are part of the new default Quake Live ruleset, the majority of them can be avoided by opting for Classic ruleset games. All the public Duel servers will run in Classic mode, and Create Match will let subscribers pick from Quake Live, Classic and Turbo rulesets. That's another thing – PQL (Promode Quake Live) is now called Turbo. As the Quake Live team explain it: "We hope that running our FFA [Free For All] and Teamplay servers with these new, fun, and accessible mechanics that we can begin to build a larger base of players who could then try their luck at the Classic Duel experience."

Re:Looks like a good move (1)

Anonymous Coward | about a month and a half ago | (#47814113)

You have to have premium to access those servers, though.

Re:Looks like a good move (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a month and a half ago | (#47814379)

You have to have premium to access those servers, though.

And even then, they're unranked.

Re:Looks like a good move (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a month and a half ago | (#47814967)

I was going to say that it would be a dick move to remove it entirely.
But hey are not doing such a thing, it is just another option for players.

Is it good? Of course it is, more people might play it, which means less chance of it probably failing, which would end up going back to the classic servers instead of hosted if it was terminated.
Plus, that introduces loads of newbs to snipe. They'll learn. Some might get good. Others will be easy scores.

Re:Looks like a good move (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a month and a half ago | (#47815443)

Yeah, let's split an already tiny userbase. That'll help the game get traction.

Re:Looks like a good move (1)

dkman (863999) | about a month and a half ago | (#47815711)

This should have been in the summary.

We're changing the default rule set, but making these changes options so you can run a server without them.

Sounds like a win win to me. Nothing to bitch about here, move along.

Broken summary (1)

Anonymous Coward | about a month and a half ago | (#47814131)

"if the update helps attract more elite players to the gamer, it could breathe new life into a very old game." Makes no sense either way, they fucked up on this.

Re:Broken summary (2)

gweihir (88907) | about a month and a half ago | (#47814359)

I think they mean players that think they are "elite", but are anything but. In short they want the pseudos, those with big egos and small skill. Easy games and true elite does not go together.

Bad Move (or, they want out) (3, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | about a month and a half ago | (#47814139)

Just like the NGE for Star Wars Galaxy, any 'major shift' to the game in order to attract a new audience alienates your current audience. You're basically saying 'screw you guys, we want some else.'

If that's the truth, then go for it. If the current audience is insufficient to proceed, then go for it. If you'd like to keep the people you have...you'd better not do it.

It's possible the maintainers of Quake Live are simply done with the project. Rather than shut the doors while there are still people playing, they need to chase everyone away first. That would make a whole lot more sense than trying to attract people to a 15-year-old game by changing it. The only people who are going to play a 15-year-old game are the ones who are trying to relive the 'glory days.' If you change it, they are no longer the 'glory days.'

Re:Bad Move (or, they want out) (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a month and a half ago | (#47814803)

Just like the NGE for Star Wars Galaxy, any 'major shift' to the game in order to attract a new audience alienates your current audience. You're basically saying 'screw you guys, we want some else.'

This. "Small sliver" of the fanbase, my ass, Mr. Smedley!
/bria4life!

Re:Bad Move (or, they want out) (1)

Ash-Fox (726320) | about a month and a half ago | (#47816179)

Just like the NGE for Star Wars Galaxy

Neon Genesis Evangelion!? AWESOME!

hate bunny hop (1, Flamebait)

Osgeld (1900440) | about a month and a half ago | (#47814171)

the rest I could not care about, bunny hopping is for moron noobs that cant make it 5 feet without getting their asses shot off

its even dumber in other games, like when you see a team of nazi's bunny hopping cross the battlefield

Re:hate bunny hop (4, Insightful)

epyT-R (613989) | about a month and a half ago | (#47814215)

bunny hopping and strafe jumping became part of the skillset that players had to master. What's the big deal? It wasn't unstoppable and it gave your position away. Abusers routinely got their asses handed to them. All of the elite players used it too, esp for specific jumps that weren't normally possible.

Re:hate bunny hop (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a month and a half ago | (#47814233)

Is there an Easter Bunny character available? Nothing beats a bunny with an egg basket and rocket launcher!

Furries (1)

tepples (727027) | about a month and a half ago | (#47815255)

I agree that adding an anthropomorphic rabbit would be humorously apropos, but it might attract parts of the furry fandom that Idthesda might not be interested in serving.

Wait... (1)

Arkh89 (2870391) | about a month and a half ago | (#47814197)

[OA player here]
They allowed bunny hopping to do the same as strafe-jumping? seriously?
Bye bye defrag...

More "elite" players? (5, Insightful)

Chas (5144) | about a month and a half ago | (#47814231)

If they require all these cheats (let's call them what they are) to play, how in the name of Hell are they "more elite"?

Are they somehow empowered to greater delusions of grandeur?

Or are they chasing players who're monetizing their game streaming?

In which case FUCK them.

Re:More "elite" players? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a month and a half ago | (#47814255)

"More elite" means "younger"

Re:More "elite" players? (1)

Opportunist (166417) | about a month and a half ago | (#47814453)

"More elite" is in the same basket as "value edition" and "power user". A nice word for the opposite of what it is.

Re:More "elite" players? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a month and a half ago | (#47814523)

Most elite are just special. Elite computer science students are unable to refill the paper tray in my experience and call for tech support because the printer is broken and there is no display on it (Because it is a screen as it says in colour: Out of paper). Not sure if that was a made up explanation for being dumb or being dumb. They are also good at trying stuff that is proven to not work under new names again and again.

I'd guess they also chase people who watch how-to-play videos as there seem to be many. Nothing worse than having someone on ones team who plays the way it was demonstrated on video regardless if it was good (like saying 'I want to craft but I didn't find out how' while the button 'crafting tutorial' is on the screen and then complaining about the lack of help for crafters) or even pre-patch and no longer possible.

Re:More "elite" players? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a month and a half ago | (#47815085)

Or maybe these "elite computer science students" have enough experience with computerised devices, that they know that 99% of them are made by morons, and the wrong sequence of actions can often result in the device - whatever it might be - catching fire or exploding in their faces.

Re:More "elite" players? (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about a month and a half ago | (#47815691)

Hi there, neckbeard. Time for you to leave the basement and meet some new friends. And by friends, I mean soap and water.

Seriously, who gets that bent out of shape about a 16 year old game.

Re:More "elite" players? (1)

governorx (524152) | about a month and a half ago | (#47816151)

I strongly agree!

How can more elite players possibly not understand the basics of movement? They would be no more than noobs.

Quake...the game that ruined my plans for LIFE... (5, Interesting)

MindPrison (864299) | about a month and a half ago | (#47814293)

Man that brings back memories...

...Picture this: A bright young student with plans to take over the (animation) world, follows the "hip kids" word of Quake II-Lithium (until then I had no clue what the Quake games where all about)...it's like Barney Gumble from the Simpsons, he was a decent guy and a heck of a helicopter pilot before he met the brown bottles with ice cold Duff. That's me and Quake. I bought the darned CD, put it in - and was lost forever...

I ended up using all my school money on investing in an ISDN Line (that was the *SHIT* back then when everyone else where on 14.4K dialup), found out that it still lagged more than a donkeys behind sunday mornings so I Invested in a DUAL ISDN line (that's a 64 x 2 = 128k line) and pinged the bejeezus outta the competition. That stuff cost 700$ a month + lost childhood + no school buddies + no school basically (see what it did to me? I have to write stuff like + in between words to substitute for bad grammar and such).

So kids! Let that be a lesson for you, stay in SCHOOL! And don't let the QUAKE get you!

Re:Quake...the game that ruined my plans for LIFE. (1)

Anonymous Coward | about a month and a half ago | (#47814873)

Quake 2 was responsible for me getting such a bad result in my Computer Science degree. I didn't need to worry about dial up speed as there were plenty of LAN players happy to play.

I didn't like Quake 3 - With quake 2 you gradually learned all the tricks like double jumps, rocket jumps etc but in quake 3 you just had these jump points which meant that in most maps people were just flying about the place and the respawn rate was much higher.

I found some Quake 2 servers still around back in 2006 or so and still managed to do really good - I'm well into my 30s now so if there are still servers running now I doubt I'll play good because of reaction times etc. It is weird how you still remember all the tricks and the map layouts though.

Re:Quake...the game that ruined my plans for LIFE. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a month and a half ago | (#47815237)

Third world problems...

Sleazes (2, Insightful)

backslashdot (95548) | about a month and a half ago | (#47814353)

The way I see it, id Software's new owners are evil because they even tried to frivolously sue John Carmack, who invented all their games and technology.

Does not compute. (1)

Anonymous Coward | about a month and a half ago | (#47814425)

A new update was pushed out last week which adds some new, more beginner-friendly features to the game.

As the writer points out, however, if the update helps attract more elite players to the gamer, it could breathe new life into a very old game.

"Beginner friendly" means driving away the elite players who do not need nerfs.. not getting them to start playing.

Re:Does not compute. (3, Insightful)

Opportunist (166417) | about a month and a half ago | (#47814459)

OTOH, it's hard to attract players if the only thing they do when joining a server is getting their asses handed. It may be fun for some of the older players to play with their prey rather than having a "real" fight, but it's just no fun at all for the prey.

The way I see it they can't win: Make the game easier and alienate the old players. Keep it the way it is and ensure no new players will come.

Re:Does not compute. (3)

Hamsterdan (815291) | about a month and a half ago | (#47815013)

That's why there are different servers in Q3A, based on the player's skill (last time I checked).

Dumbing the game down to attract console players is not the way to go.

The game speed is what made Quake & Unreal into classics. Unreal 2 and Doom 3 looked and felt like console ports (dumbed down and slow action)

Don't see the logic of this... (1)

RogueyWon (735973) | about a month and a half ago | (#47814455)

I've never liked Quake 3. To be honest, aside from the singleplayer modes of Quakes 2 and 4, I've never much enjoyed the Quake series. Admired them as technological accomplishments? Sure. Enjoyed other games built on the engines? Absolutely. But liked the games? No. Compared with their contemporary competitors such as Duke Nukem 3d, Unreal, Half-Life and so on, they've always felt very shallow and conservative.

But hey, I am not the final arbiter of gaming taste. A lot of people do like the series. But by and large, they like it because it is so conservative. Quake 3/Quake Live's players are basically the people who have looked at everything in modern gaming and said "no thanks". To an extent, I sympathise. There are aspects of some modern shooters, such as 2-weapon limits, modern military settings, regenerating health systems and corridor-levels that I'm also bored to death of (though not everything is like that). But this is an audience that defines itself pretty much by its resistance to change.

So why bother pushing changes like this? Your existing players are not only going to hate it, but they are going to compete with each other to see who can shout that they hate it the loudest (proving yourself more "hardcore" and "oldschool" than anybody else is a big part of how you navigate the social pecking order around niche games like this). And new players? It's still, under those minor changes, the same old game it always once and still both feels and looks like a legacy from another era. Counter-Strike edged out Quake 3 as the main competitive fps for good reasons. Plus it's a legacy from another era with a really, really hostile-to-beginners culture to go with it.

If all of the above sounds hostile... it's not really meant to be. It's absolutely a good thing that there are niche games like this out there. But by and large, the absolute worst thing the developers of those long-standing niche games can do is to try to take them "mainstream". It usually just alienates the old audience without attracting a new one.

Re:Don't see the logic of this... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a month and a half ago | (#47814489)

"But by and large, they like it because it is so conservative. "

This was always nonsense with regards to multiplayer quake, carmack and company wrote the book on how to design internet games. Quake with mods invented many of the genre's staples. What people loved about quake was the multiplayer, the single player was always phoned in. Quake never had a real good single player campaign or compelling universe, the good single player stopped with Doom for iD software, and you could see it in rage that they never really learned from other games that did it better.

Re:Don't see the logic of this... (1)

stealth_finger (1809752) | about a month and a half ago | (#47814855)

"But by and large, they like it because it is so conservative. "

This was always nonsense with regards to multiplayer quake, carmack and company wrote the book on how to design internet games. Quake with mods invented many of the genre's staples. What people loved about quake was the multiplayer, the single player was always phoned in. Quake never had a real good single player campaign or compelling universe, the good single player stopped with Doom for iD software, and you could see it in rage that they never really learned from other games that did it better.

Personally I thought Quake 2 had a great single player.

Re:Don't see the logic of this... (2)

RogueyWon (735973) | about a month and a half ago | (#47814937)

In technical terms, Quake multiplayer was groundbreaking. But in gameplay terms, even by the standards of its time, it was extremely conservative. It was straightforward "shoot the other player in the face with a basic selection of weapons" deathmatch that hadn't really evolved since Doom. In contrast to the almost Spy-vs-Spy-like multiplayer in DN3D, it was extremely barebones stuff.

Plenty of people did more interesting things in mods, of course.

Robin Williams identified the problem years ago (5, Funny)

Opportunist (166417) | about a month and a half ago | (#47814485)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?... [youtube.com]

This is basically the new player experience in Quake...

Re:Robin Williams identified the problem years ago (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a month and a half ago | (#47814561)

The difference between a new player and an old player is the new player only thinks everyone is cheating, but the old player can prove everyone is cheating.

To quote the usual idiots (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a month and a half ago | (#47814695)

"If you don't like it go and write your own game..."

XPilot (0)

protonman (411526) | about a month and a half ago | (#47814925)

If they made Quake too easy, let's all play XPilot!

http://www.xpilot.org/ [xpilot.org]

As someone who was never competitive at Quake... (2)

damn_registrars (1103043) | about a month and a half ago | (#47815411)

The changes sound like a good idea. I picked up a copy of Q3 a week or two too late and was never able to compete in multiplayer as I would be fragged into oblivion in the first .03 nanoseconds after connecting to a server. I quickly gave up and went to a different genre completely where new players were not punished so severely for not having camped out the night before release at Best Buy to be the first to own a copy (or for not playing 23 hours a day on a steady drip of red bull).

Now, this won't really bring me to the game as my life is different now than it was 15 years ago, but I do think the changes are a good idea.

You know how they could attract more players? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a month and a half ago | (#47815477)

You know how they could attract more players? Make the damn thing work in Linux like it used to. I was a huge Quake player back in the day and I never wanted to stop but when everything migrated to Live I had to stop playing because Linux isn't supported.

Re:You know how they could attract more players? (1)

nej4ugi (2759471) | about a month and a half ago | (#47815833)

They were supporting OS X before (the small plugin that was necessary to play through browser was supported at least) but after the last big update they stopped and left only native windows application for it. Wine is a solution but it still sucks and seems like they're shrinking and not investing time and money into something that doesn't pay out as much as they would want to.

No on Steam (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about a month and a half ago | (#47815683)

'Quake Live (based on 1998's Quake III Arena) on Steam"
This game is not on Steam.

Interesting (1)

robstout (2873439) | about a month and a half ago | (#47816221)

Of course this is going to piss off the old school players, but then again they ar eproblably still playing the original versions off of their own servers. Then again, how many new players are going to be interested in playing quake? It's been years since it was relevant.
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