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New Usage-Based Insurance Software Can Track Drivers Using Smartphones

timothy posted about two weeks ago | from the do-not-necessarily-want dept.

Privacy 137

Lucas123 (935744) writes A new software platform released by one of the nation's largest insurance roadside services providers will allow insurers to track drivers through smartphone sensors and geolocation services in order to offer good driver incentives or emergency roadside assistance. The tracking software is similar to technology currently offered by State Farm's In-Drive and Progressive's Snapshot program, but the latter uses a hardware collection device that plugs into a vehicle's standard OBDII onboard diagnostics port. The new software platform from Agero travels with the driver in and out of the car, so that if a customer is in an accident emergency services are still contacted.

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Nope! (4, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about two weeks ago | (#47824565)

Over my dead body! George Orwell is turning in his grave!

Re:Nope! (5, Informative)

JosKarith (757063) | about two weeks ago | (#47824745)

My old employer - one of the biggest insurance firms in the UK - has been running stuff like this for years. A little app on your smartphone that analyses your driving style for minor infractions and squeals back to the company so they can produce evidence for why your premiums have shot up...
And of course to get it working they tested it on... the call center staff. Seriously, any call center staff who had company insurance had to agree to this sh1t being installed on their mobiles to qualify for the staff discount during its testing phase. And the claims of anonymisation of data for the testing were proven to be BS the day the leaderboards of "Who's the safest drivers in XXX team" started going up to shame staff members who weren't good little boys and girls.

Re:Nope! (0)

Anonymous Coward | about two weeks ago | (#47824853)

So, the numbnuts driving erratically while yakking and texting at lights while it's green, forcing everyone behind them to wait another red light cycle, will have to pay more than me?

Alright!

Re:Nope! (1)

sumdumass (711423) | about two weeks ago | (#47824925)

So eill the passengers who caught a ride with them and likely anyone who's phone is malfunctioning.

As long as it isn't me or whatever.

Re:Nope! (0)

Anonymous Coward | about two weeks ago | (#47825053)

How will the phone know what color the traffic light is, or who you cut off, or when you should have used a turn signal, or how close you come to pedestrians? I'd be very unlikely to buy an insurance plan with one of these phone deals because I drive safely but quickly. I've never caused an accident (or been in one while my car is moving) but 65 mph is bullshit.

So if you're safe in easy-to-quantify ways you should sign up. If you think you're safer than the dumbest of data would suggest, then you shouldn't sign up.

Re:Nope! (0)

Anonymous Coward | about two weeks ago | (#47825389)

How will the phone know what color the traffic light is, or who you cut off, or when you should have used a turn signal, or how close you come to pedestrians? I'd be very unlikely to buy an insurance plan with one of these phone deals because I drive safely but quickly. I've never caused an accident (or been in one while my car is moving) but 65 mph is bullshit.

So if you're safe in easy-to-quantify ways you should sign up. If you think you're safer than the dumbest of data would suggest, then you shouldn't sign up.

Oh look, someone who wants to tell me about their driving skills

[condescending wonka]

Please do regale me with how above-average you are! This never gets old even though *everyone says it*

Re:Nope! (1)

Russ1642 (1087959) | about two weeks ago | (#47826087)

The majority of drivers ARE above average. It's a statistical fact.

Re:Nope! (1)

Khyber (864651) | about two weeks ago | (#47826647)

400K+ flawless driving record, thank you very much. TN, TX, and CA DMV proven.

Re:Nope! (1)

davester666 (731373) | about two weeks ago | (#47827541)

There is nobody alive who has seen me driving while distracted!

Re:Nope! (0)

Anonymous Coward | about two weeks ago | (#47826291)

Even with GPS enabled and my Samsung Galaxy S4 set to GPS only, the map location often jumps to cellular tower locations it is using. I suspect the thing might sometimes register several hundred miles per hour on an app that used it's GPS.

Re:Nope! (2)

waspleg (316038) | about two weeks ago | (#47825319)

The UK seems to be winning the race to the bottom for the dystopian nightmare where our gov't use all our technology against us... For our own good, not total power of course.

Re:Nope! (1)

Charliemopps (1157495) | about two weeks ago | (#47825733)

I think I'll be getting a cheap phone and putting it in my 6yr old's backpack.

Re:Nope! (3, Insightful)

kheldan (1460303) | about two weeks ago | (#47824907)

I second the motion; fuck that. We're already 'tracked' in enough ways we (apparently) can't control, I'll be damned if I do it willingly. As is I'm getting fucking sick and fed up with feeling more and more every year like we're animals in a zoo or criminals in a prison.

Re:Nope! (1)

Noah Haders (3621429) | about two weeks ago | (#47825367)

I agree. fuck. that. shit. If they wanted to do usage based billing they could still respect the customer and provide a third-party odometer that goes in the car and tracks distance traveled. this could be limited so it's not tracking the routes, just the distances. also it may not be always connected. what's the point of saving a couple bucks on a ins plan if you pay more for a sim? maybe it could use whispernet like kindle if it just has to send out a bit of info every once and a while. or sms.

tangentially, how much does everybody pay for car insurance? I'm in US and me and my SO pay $150/mo. Is that crazy?

Re:Nope! (1)

Bob the Super Hamste (1152367) | about two weeks ago | (#47828337)

There are already limited use insurance plans. I have one for my jeep that in the 3 1/2 years of ownership I have only put ~10,000 mile on. I can drive that vehicle at most 5000 miles a year and every year they call to get the mileage that I just read off the odometer. The last time I paid it it cost $47 for 6 months.

As for what I pay for comprehensive with a $500 deductible on my daily driver ('02 BMW 325i) I pay like $225 every 6 months. On the other hand after my sister was getting into a substantial (not totaling her car) accident every month for the better part of a year plus a number of moving violations he insurance shot up to $1200 a month.

Re:Nope! (0)

Anonymous Coward | about two weeks ago | (#47826559)

At least for now this is only an option, no one is forcing you to use these. The idea is you can choose to opt into this if you believe you're a better driver than average and therefore can save money since your risk is lower therefore your premiums are lower. Everyone else continues using the untracked policies as they always have. Only an issue if somewhere down the line this kind of policy becomes compulsory.

Re:Nope! (1)

SternisheFan (2529412) | about two weeks ago | (#47825517)

Over my dead body! George Orwell is turning in his grave!

Are you buried under him?

Don't need to track (3, Insightful)

Mr D from 63 (3395377) | about two weeks ago | (#47824567)

No need to track to help roadside assistance. All you need to know is where the car is at the time it needs assistance.

1..2..3.. until massive security breaches (4, Insightful)

sinij (911942) | about two weeks ago | (#47824575)

This is just another attack surface on my privacy and in case of OBD-II devices on my safety.

Insurances are not in business to save you money, they are also no in business of securing data or massive distributed sensor networks. Best case scenario - you will save $5/mo while your car/cellphone ends up sending out spam, worst case scenario you will die in a flaming wreck when someone in CN remotely turns your auto-parking feature while you are driving at 75mph.

Re:1..2..3.. until massive security breaches (3, Insightful)

Mr D from 63 (3395377) | about two weeks ago | (#47824607)

"Saving money" = "raising rates less"

Re:1..2..3.. until massive security breaches (1)

fnj (64210) | about two weeks ago | (#47827353)

PRETENDING to raise rates less than they otherwise would have.

FTFY.

Re:1..2..3.. until massive security breaches (2)

Vitriol+Angst (458300) | about two weeks ago | (#47824811)

I wonder if this will be like the "consumer loyalty cards" at the grocery store;
1) Lower price with loyalty card.
2) Raise Prices such that those with loyalty card are paying the same old price and others are penalized.
3) Establish in customer's minds that giving up data about their habits SAVES them money.

The "you can have a discount if" policies from Insurance companies will likely be followed by subtle increase in rates.If you want privacy, you can pay ridiculous amounts of money.

And in this case, they will likely use evidence to withhold payouts and support for people in a legal disclaimer somewhere, which they can now better prove because they've tracked you. AAA can tell you were here when you called, and now your care is on the road because you rolled it away from the gas station; no tow truck for you!

Re:1..2..3.. until massive security breaches (2)

wiredlogic (135348) | about two weeks ago | (#47824845)

The OBD-II readers aren't a safety threat. They only monitor sensor readings and special modes for updating ECUs cannot be accessed when a vehicle is moving or by general purpose diagnostic devices which these readers present themselves as. Airbag systems are implemented on a completely separate network using a special low-latency protocol.

Re:1..2..3.. until massive security breaches (3, Insightful)

sinij (911942) | about two weeks ago | (#47824919)

The OBD-II dongles are not a threat until Metasploit module exploiting this overflow or that out of bound write comes out and cars start crashing. OBD of modern cars have been successfully exploited, considering that cars can easily stay on the road 15+ years and automotive industry only now started taking rudimentary first steps to secure it, it will be 20+ years until such dongles will be safe to use for general public.

Re:1..2..3.. until massive security breaches (0)

jeffmeden (135043) | about two weeks ago | (#47825471)

The OBD-II dongles are not a threat until Metasploit module exploiting this overflow or that out of bound write comes out and cars start crashing. OBD of modern cars have been successfully exploited, considering that cars can easily stay on the road 15+ years and automotive industry only now started taking rudimentary first steps to secure it, it will be 20+ years until such dongles will be safe to use for general public.

The AT&T telematics system (that the Progressive Snapshot system runs on) is internal to AT&T and there have been no credible threats to its integrity. Does that mean it's totally secure? Of course not. But your hand-waving of "oh someone will just start pwning them with metasploit! and then you will see!!!!11" is completely uncalled for and uninformed. You might as well suggest that drivers' cellphones that get "hacked" can then "hack into" the Bluetooth interface on late model cars and totally "hack the brakes!!!" and make them refuse to operate.

Re:1..2..3.. until massive security breaches (1)

stoploss (2842505) | about two weeks ago | (#47825989)

drivers' cellphones that get "hacked" can then "hack into" the Bluetooth interface on late model cars and totally "hack the brakes!!!" and make them refuse to operate.

The hidden threat in your pocket... hackers already stole your credit card info, but now they might cause you and your loved ones to die in a fiery wreck. More at 11!

Re:1..2..3.. until massive security breaches (1)

sinij (911942) | about two weeks ago | (#47826263)

The above scenario is actually not as far-fetched as you think. There are proof-of-concept hacks of car infotainment systems over Bluetooth, and there are confirmed cases of infotainment systems directly connected to CANBUS giving attackers access to vehicle systems. Clearly, not all cars are so badly designed, but some are. So it is possible to chain cellphone-bluetooth-CANBUS and end up in a fiery crash.

Re:1..2..3.. until massive security breaches (1)

Khyber (864651) | about two weeks ago | (#47826683)

"But your hand-waving of "oh someone will just start pwning them with metasploit! and then you will see!!!!11" is completely uncalled for and uninformed."

No, you're uninformed. Man can make it. Man will break it. This is a natural constant.

Re:1..2..3.. until massive security breaches (1)

drinkypoo (153816) | about two weeks ago | (#47825535)

They only monitor sensor readings and special modes for updating ECUs cannot be accessed when a vehicle is moving or by general purpose diagnostic devices

Except that most PCMs will happily take a reset any old time, including while the vehicle is in motion. You might not be able to engage in sudden unplanned acceleration, but you may well be able to cause the engine to die, depending on how the PCM is designed.

Further, you might not be able to reflash the PCM while the vehicle is in motion (generally you need key on, engine off for that) but a) you might be able to kill it and then reflash it, and b) that's really not relevant because there's still things you can do while the car is in motion. For example, you can diddle the fuel trim and burn out the catalysts, which is expensive if not dangerous to the driver. On many modern vehicles you can shut off alternator charging and run down the battery. There's just lots of opportunities to cause problems.

Re:1..2..3.. until massive security breaches (0)

Anonymous Coward | about two weeks ago | (#47826401)

One can "brick" (as in render a vehicle incapable of starting) an ECM/TCM through the OBD port on some makes of cars. Buy the wrong tune for your vehicle, and one can encounter this easily.

In any case, I wouldn't use an OBD-II reader tattling on my driving to an insurance company, period. From what I read, the main things it looked for was hard braking and driving time. At my previous job, the commute was hairy, and even with proper driving and keeping space, one would get someone zooming in the gap between your vehicle and the one ahead, the driver who got in the lane miscalculating, and slamming on brakes, so 60-0 was a normal part of the daily commute. I ended up changing brake pads on a prophylactic basis because of this every 5000 miles. I'm glad I changed jobs... no more of that mess.

I do believe in OBD-II readers, though... A Scangauge 2 is a must if you are serious about your vehicle.

Re:1..2..3.. until massive security breaches (1)

Noah Haders (3621429) | about two weeks ago | (#47825383)

worst case scenario you will die in a flaming wreck when someone in CN remotely turns your auto-parking feature while you are driving at 75mph.

I don't know what CN is, but I imagine /b/ will be all over it.

Like I want them to know where I am 24x7... (2)

Paleolibertarian (930578) | about two weeks ago | (#47824581)

Which I don't. If I need them I'll call them. Only an idiot want's to be tracked.

Edwin

Re:Like I want them to know where I am 24x7... (3, Insightful)

sinij (911942) | about two weeks ago | (#47824631)

Dear Edwin,

We have noticed that in the past 30 days you have parked twice near a bar. We regret to inform you that as a result your premium increased by GAZILLION DOLLARS and this information was added to your permanent driving record so you will never be able to get insurance anywhere else again.

Sincerely,

Your Insurance Company

Re:Like I want them to know where I am 24x7... (1)

Anonymous Coward | about two weeks ago | (#47824843)

in Wisconsin it's impossible to not park near a bar.

We're fucked!

Re:Like I want them to know where I am 24x7... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about two weeks ago | (#47826657)

Dear sinij,

I think Edwin is aware of the ramifications. What part of "only an idiot want's to be tracked" don't you understand?

Sincerely,
AC

Re:Like I want them to know where I am 24x7... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about two weeks ago | (#47824637)

No self-respecting paleolibertarian buys insurance.

Re:Like I want them to know where I am 24x7... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about two weeks ago | (#47824937)

Neither do self-respecting neo-libertarians. It's stupid.

Re:Like I want them to know where I am 24x7... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about two weeks ago | (#47824665)

Only and idiot uses an apostrophe to make a verb plural.

Re:Like I want them to know where I am 24x7... (1)

Chrisq (894406) | about two weeks ago | (#47824785)

Only an idiot want's to be tracked.

Only and idiot uses an apostrophe to make a verb plural.

Since we seem to be doing Grammar Nazism, only an idiot would confuse the present indicative for a plural.

Now what's the law that says that anyone correcting grammar is bound to make a grammatical error when doing so? I wait nervously for someone to point one out!

Re:Like I want them to know where I am 24x7... (1)

fnj (64210) | about two weeks ago | (#47827461)

Only and idiot uses an apostrophe to make a verb plural.

First, misusing the apostrophe is a mark of ignorance, not idiocy. Second, ignorance of the fine points of english is not a sensible, polite or even intelligent thing to accuse a writer of, if the writer's native language is perhaps not english.

What's your excuse for confusing "and" and "an"?

Please make sure you have your phone ready (1)

i kan reed (749298) | about two weeks ago | (#47824583)

You never know when you're going to be in an accident, so you should be using this app whenever you're driving, just in case. I promise it'll pay off faster that way.

Re:Please make sure you have your phone ready (1)

Vitriol+Angst (458300) | about two weeks ago | (#47824815)

They'll have to slow down the regular payments to give in that extra feeling of "special."

Interesting, if optional (1)

TheDarkMaster (1292526) | about two weeks ago | (#47824597)

As long as is optional, is interesting to have it considering that the driver will not always be able to call for help in an emergency (And from the standpoint of first responders is also interesting that a car can automatically call for help when involved in an accident).

Re:Interesting, if optional (2)

Mr D from 63 (3395377) | about two weeks ago | (#47824701)

As for the insurance tracking, its optional until the point where the cost of opting out becomes too much.

Re:Interesting, if optional (4, Insightful)

Somebody Is Using My (985418) | about two weeks ago | (#47824767)

It's optional today. It'll be mandatory tomorrow.

Get the consumers used to the idea of being tracked and lead them in the direction you want to go with a carrot in the form of a tiny financial incentive (make up for the lost revenue by increasing insurance rates in general so these "savings" are swallowed up by higher average costs).

Then once you have enough people subscribed to the tracking, start making the tracking a part of any plan for /new/ users (possibly with an option to stop being tracked after a few years, with a substantial rate hike of course). After all, the insurance company has no idea if you are a good driver or not so it is only in their best interest for them to gather as much information on you as they can. After all, the company is taking a big risk by offering you insurance, you understand.

Later, force tracking on any existing users who don't already have it. Stop offering any discounts for its use; if the consumer wants insurance, they better prepare to have their every move tracked.

Meanwhile, make sure to use all this collected information for the company's maximum financial benefit. Sift it for every possible marketing use. Sell it to other companies. Deny coverage because it incriminates the user without checking to see if it is actually accurate. That sort of thing.

This is the way it always works, creeping slowly ahead to the detriment of the customer. The only way to stop this sort of thing is to squash it before it gets started.

Re:Interesting, if optional (0)

Anonymous Coward | about two weeks ago | (#47824995)

A simple ballot proposition that outlaws location tracking as a condition of selling auto insurance, and outlaws financial penalties for customers who decline location tracking would be sufficient.

Re:Interesting, if optional (1)

RivenAleem (1590553) | about two weeks ago | (#47825181)

Who's going to propose that in the face of lobbying? Can you outbid the lobbyists?

Re:Interesting, if optional (0)

Anonymous Coward | about two weeks ago | (#47824787)

...and I don't know if this makes you feel better about this sort of thing, but I can tell you that with Progressive's Snapshot program it's not like you're tracked for the rest of your life. After 30 days they usually have enough data for your temporary discount, after 6 months you get your permanent discount and they ask for the device back.

Re:Interesting, if optional (1)

scuzzlebutt (517123) | about two weeks ago | (#47825005)

I guess you could thwart this by installing the software on an older device you don't use anymore and just leave it at home or the office.

What if no phone? (1)

smooth wombat (796938) | about two weeks ago | (#47824609)

What if someone doesn't have a smart phone but a solid, reliable "dumb" phone? What then? Are they going to be penalized because they can't be tracked?

Bite me. Insurance is enough of a scam now as it is. Having them track you in real time is pathetic. If they want to see how good a driver I am, see how many accidents I've had.

None? Well guess what, I must be pretty damn good not to have hit anyone in the decades I've been driving so stop raising my rates every year.

Re:What if no phone? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about two weeks ago | (#47824909)

What if someone doesn't have a smart phone but a solid, reliable "dumb" phone? What then? Are they going to be penalized because they can't be tracked?

Yes.

Re:What if no phone? (1)

Shadow99_1 (86250) | about two weeks ago | (#47825329)

I"m in the dumb phone camp as well and thinking about it while by law I'm mandated to have insurance... The last thing my insurance paid out for was some glass fixer after a rock came up off the road and took a sliver out of it. That was over 5 years ago and I have to go back another 7 or 8 years past that since I've had any other issues they have paid out for. Yet... I pay $80/month and have been for at least a decade... So I've paid them at least $9600 over a decade and basically cost them nothing... I'm so getting shafted from that deal...

Re:What if no phone? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about two weeks ago | (#47825441)

Time to go read up on the definition of 'insurance'.

Re: What if no phone? (1)

DigiShaman (671371) | about two weeks ago | (#47825827)

That $9,600 goes toward paying off someone else's totaled car. That someone could be you one day. That, and liability ranging in the hundreds of thousand of dollars.

That $9,600 is looking like a pretty good "investment" in the grand scheme of things, doesn't it?

Re:What if no phone? (1)

bws111 (1216812) | about two weeks ago | (#47825955)

OK, plow into someone on the way home tonight. Your insurance company will pay their bills. That'll show em.

Seriously, what kind of idiotic thinking is that?

How do they know I'm driving? (1)

Snotnose (212196) | about two weeks ago | (#47824617)

I ride my bike a lot. Unless I'm doing 65 on the freeway, how do they know I'm driving to the grocery store instead of riding my bike? The route is flat and through a residential area, I average 20 MPH there and back in a 25 MPH zone.

Re:How do they know I'm driving? (1)

Enry (630) | about two weeks ago | (#47824677)

Android is pretty good about knowing when I'm on a bike vs. in my car.

where do i sign up? (1)

alen (225700) | about two weeks ago | (#47824629)

i haven't had an accident in almost 20 years
i never run red lights
i'm not in a constant hurry like most of the idiots i see in NYC
i'll gladly take a discount in exchange for proof that i'm a safe driver. i'm at the point where i'm thinking of recording my driving like they do in russia just in case i get hit or hit someone stopping in the street out of the blue for no reason

Re:where do i sign up? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about two weeks ago | (#47824743)

i haven't had an accident in almost 20 years i never run red lights i'm not in a constant hurry like most of the idiots i see in NYC i'll gladly take a discount in exchange for proof that i'm a safe driver. i'm at the point where i'm thinking of recording my driving like they do in russia just in case i get hit or hit someone stopping in the street out of the blue for no reason

I guess you prefer the guilty until proven innocent mentality.

Re:where do i sign up? (1)

Mr D from 63 (3395377) | about two weeks ago | (#47824753)

The question is what habits are rewarded or punished. I think the insurance company should be required to provide full disclosure on exactly what is monitored and how the rate adjustment calculation is performed. Then the consumer can make an informed decision on if it will help or not.

Re:where do i sign up? (2)

bws111 (1216812) | about two weeks ago | (#47824961)

Don't know about this app, but Progressive and State Farm do tell you what they monitor. State Farm (at least) also provides you with a 'dashboard' so you can see the data, along with how it will affect your rates.

Progressive monitors hard braking, miles driven per day, and how often you drive between midnight and 4AM.

State Farm monitors braking, acceleration, left and right turns, time of day vehicle is driven, and speed over 80MPH

Re: where do i sign up? (2)

DigiShaman (671371) | about two weeks ago | (#47825721)

Speed over 80MPh!?? That practically 1 and what, 200 drivers in the left lane during non-rush hour in Houston. That's substantial!

Re:where do i sign up? (1)

bleh-of-the-huns (17740) | about two weeks ago | (#47824859)

I somewhat agree with you here. There are a few caveats though. Will the insurance company furnish the data to law enforcement on request or court order. Black box data in cars is typically at the vehicle owners discretion to be provided in any criminal or civil case, or insurance claim. The vehicles owner has the right to decline access to that data regardless of the circumstances (although that will make you more of a suspect in some cases). Now you are streaming that data to a third party, who can probably be forced to hand it over via court orders and what not. Also, the discount is worthless, I'm sorry, but $5 off a month when my insurance is close to $150 a month is not worth the hassle.

Re:where do i sign up? (1)

Cardoor (3488091) | about two weeks ago | (#47824883)

Will the insurance company furnish the data to law enforcement on request or court order.

is this really even a question?

Re:where do i sign up? (1)

bleh-of-the-huns (17740) | about two weeks ago | (#47827015)

Yes, it really is a question. Simply due to the fact that there are laws and rules in place to prevent law enforcement, or even opposing defendants from obtaining that information to use against you, similar to the 5th Amendment. I guess a better way to ask the question would be will the insurance companies follow those same rules as it relates to the same data, or is there fine print buried in your contract that says they can do with it as they please.

Re:where do i sign up? (1)

Cardoor (3488091) | about two weeks ago | (#47827415)

well, considering that recent history has shown corporate america doesn't hesitate to hand over all personal data to govt authorities at the request, never mind a court order, i think the answer is a resounding yes.

Re:where do i sign up? (1)

Cardoor (3488091) | about two weeks ago | (#47827425)

'laws and rules in place' no longer mean anything.

Re:where do i sign up? (1)

alen (225700) | about two weeks ago | (#47824893)

the dollars will have to be significant, but in most states it takes some really crazy driving to get hit with a criminal charge in an accident. like going 70mph in a 30mph urban or residential environment, killing someone and then crying innocent how you didn't see them

Re:where do i sign up? (1)

Patent Lover (779809) | about two weeks ago | (#47825143)

Then why haven't you been given a discount already?

Re:where do i sign up? (1)

h4ck7h3p14n37 (926070) | about two weeks ago | (#47825179)

I would definitely recommend getting a camera to protect yourself. It's unfortunate, but some drivers will flat-out lie about what happened to cause a crash and try to blame you for their mistake. If you have video evidence they can't pull crap like that.

You don't get it (0)

Anonymous Coward | about two weeks ago | (#47825891)

It's all nicety-nice until they declare some club you belong to to be a subversive organization, or some behavior to be suspicious. Oh, I see he drove to the ACLU and... THE LIBRARY. Take him in for questioning.

What's that? A warrant? What's that?

Orwell not good enough for you? OK, did you stop to consider that discounts for the compliant are really just taxes on the non-compliant? I don't want a smart phone. I don't want to be tracked. Oh, but my rates are higher if I don't participate. So. I'm taxed. If nothing else, consider your fellow humans who are sensitive to these issues even though you may not be.

Do us a favor. Say "NO" with the rest of us. Support any legislation to make this shit illegal. If they do force this device on you, you have a duty to hack it and make it look like you're doing something innocent... but in our dystopian present, can anybody can figure out what "innocent behavior" is? Hint: there is none. Your all guilty, slaves..

another chain voluntaril added to our incaseration (0)

Anonymous Coward | about two weeks ago | (#47824657)

and some one thinks this is a good idea. as you can see officer i was not speeding when you stopped me. but if you where hear yesterday as you can see i whould be going 100 mph

Speedy (1)

Impy the Impiuos Imp (442658) | about two weeks ago | (#47824691)

Check the fine print to see if they bail on payouts if you are exceeding the speed limit or engage in other behavior they don't like.

69-year-old operated upon toremove radishfrom anus (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about two weeks ago | (#47824761)

http://timesofindia.indiatimes... [indiatimes.com]

SURAT: A 69-year-old man was operated upon at New Civil Hospital (NCH) in Surat on Saturday to remove a radish from his anus. It took almost two hours for a team of four surgeons to remove the 17 centimeter long radish. The patient informed that he inserted the radish and on failing to remove it he rushed to hospital.

Resident of Limbayat area in city and a retired train pilot was successfully operated upon to remove the radish. He was suffering from pain since Friday night. When removed the doctors found that the patient used a condom to cover the 5 centimeter thick radish.

The patient did not go to hospital initially but after several failed attempts he visited hospital. He complained of unbearable pain due to his act.

The doctors started operating the patient from anus but on failing to remove the radish a team of four surgeons had to operate the patient from stomach. The radish was pushed from the stomach and the operation ended successfully.

The patient informed doctors at NCH that he himself inserted the radish and he attempted similar acts in past too. His wife died two years ago and is living depressed life since then, his detailed medical examination revealed.

No Thanks (0)

Anonymous Coward | about two weeks ago | (#47824927)

I can only see usage based insurance ending badly, at the moment they seem to be playing fairly nice but that will change the second they get significant market share or force it through legislation. Then it will be used to screw you in every way possible. The information shows you were going 3 mph over the speed limit before that wreck (even though the sensors can vary +/- 5 mph on a good day), coverage denied. Didn't come to a complete stop at that leaving your driveway, + 5% on your premiums. About the only "usage based" information I would be willing to report to my insurance company would be the odometer reading. They don't need my location, speed, deceleration, shopping, service, etc information as far as I am concerned.

Re:No Thanks (0)

Anonymous Coward | about two weeks ago | (#47825311)

Competition is pretty fierce in the auto insurance industry. Market pressures will likely have companies using this data weed out risky drivers so they can keep rates low. Rates for safe drivers will be driven down by market forces as insurance companies absolutely do want safe drivers.

Re:No Thanks (0)

Anonymous Coward | about two weeks ago | (#47826699)

Competition is fierce to get customers, but once they have them I don't think they are quite so cordial, things get even worse after an accident/ticket. I know that they ratcheted up the rates on my dad quite a bit before he finally did some shopping around and found out how out of wack his premiums were, and that was with a pretty good driving history. Years ago someone pulled out in front of my sister while she was driving my car, the accident effectively totaled my car and the opposing insurance company said "take $500 and sign a waiver or we'll see you in court." They're happy to take your money, but when it comes to actually paying out for the purchased insurance coverage they'll find all kinds of ways to deny you.

How does the app know who is driving? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about two weeks ago | (#47824983)

How does the app know if the owner of the phone is driving? Does the app penalize the policy holder when they ride with a driver and car that is not on the policy?

Noway (1)

AndyKron (937105) | about two weeks ago | (#47825107)

Big Brother travels with the driver in and out of the car, so that if a customer is in an accident law enforcement services are still contacted.

Plate of Shrimp... (1)

NotSanguine (1917456) | about two weeks ago | (#47825115)

Re:Plate of Shrimp... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about two weeks ago | (#47826593)

Stephen Hawking drives *everywhere*. No wonder he lost the bet about information in black holes...

Re:Plate of Shrimp... (1)

NotSanguine (1917456) | about two weeks ago | (#47826759)

Stephen Hawking drives *everywhere*. No wonder he lost the bet about information in black holes...

Actually, he doesn't drive anywhere. He is driven by others.

So spoof it (1)

Anonymous Coward | about two weeks ago | (#47825119)

I've been waiting for someone to come up with a device to send spoofed ODB data to these things ever since Flo started pushing them on TV.

I was ... (3, Funny)

PPH (736903) | about two weeks ago | (#47825159)

... pulled over leaving the airport for having previously been doing 600 MPH.

Of course EVERYONE speeds (1)

Squidlips (1206004) | about two weeks ago | (#47825183)

Who never goes over 65 on the highway? So all you offenders will get rate hikes....i.e. everyone

Re:Of course EVERYONE speeds (0)

Anonymous Coward | about two weeks ago | (#47825337)

They can't just raise prices across the board like that, unless they don't want customers. The auto insurance industry is very competitive compared to most. The data is likely going to be used to identify safer drivers so they can be targeted for retention with lower rates and riskier drivers so they can offset risk better with higher premiums. Ideally if the company can set its rates so that its attractive to safe drivers only it would do that, this is just a step in being able to develop that kind of pricing.

Re:Of course EVERYONE speeds (1)

drinkypoo (153816) | about two weeks ago | (#47825603)

Who never goes over 65 on the highway?

Old people. Not all of them, but a subset of them. I see them in various lanes all day. Many of them are actually good enough to tuck over towards the exits someplace and not bother anyone. They're getting amazing mileage and they're good people, but of course they're not the ones you notice most readily, are they?

Also, some young couples, and some mountain bikers. After singletrack, very little you can do on a public road feels fast, mostly because you don't have trees going by (relatively) inches from your face. Technically, it's your whole head, but what I find myself thinking about most is my face. If you're not going far, or if you plan to make a lot of stops, then there's little point to speeding. You just won't save any meaningful amount of time.

With that said, I live far from everywhere, I shan't be installing such an app any time soon.

Shut phone off when driving (2)

chaosdivine69 (1456649) | about two weeks ago | (#47825187)

Sorry, but isn't there a law about distracted driving? So why not adhere to the rule and be a good little boy/girl and shut the damn thing off while driving. Turn it on when parked. They can't complain about it then since you are "just complying with the law". Oh, and if you need a GPS for your job, bring your own dash mount style. Give the fuckers nothing...

I don't have a smart phone (1)

BringsApples (3418089) | about two weeks ago | (#47825529)

But if you need to look at my odometer from time to time, I'm fine with that. If I break down I'll just use my old style phone to call for a friend of mine to come help me.

Also:

technology
noun
1) the application of scientific knowledge for practical purposes, especially in industry."advances in computer technology"
2) machinery and equipment developed from the application of scientific knowledge.
3) the branch of knowledge dealing with engineering or applied sciences.
No, this doesn't sound like what's going on here. Maybe...

slave
noun
1) a person who is the legal property of another and is forced to obey them.
2) a person who is excessively dependent upon or controlled by something.
3) work excessively hard.
Yeah, that sounds more like it.

G forces (1)

mythix (2589549) | about two weeks ago | (#47825587)

What if your phone falls off it's holder on the center console and on the floor, registering big G foroces while it's bouncing around in the car, but you aren't driving like a mad man...

Re:G forces (1)

tlhIngan (30335) | about two weeks ago | (#47827683)

What if your phone falls off it's holder on the center console and on the floor, registering big G foroces while it's bouncing around in the car, but you aren't driving like a mad man...

Then you're still a dangerous driver because you didn't securely mount your phone. Because in an accident, loose items become projectiles and have the possibility to cause injury.

A phone that's fallen is also a danger like any object that can get wedged between the brake and the floor, and the driver is distracted because they're at speed and most likely going to look for the fallen thing rather than the road.

Hell, if there's any reason to follow the law and turn off your phone...

Privacy Issue (1)

nranger (3812595) | about two weeks ago | (#47825627)

This seems to be a privacy the the insurance companies need to back off from.. http://www.knoxinjury.com/ [knoxinjury.com]

They need to do this for sexual behavior (1)

gelfling (6534) | about two weeks ago | (#47826131)

Your health insurance provider should have direct real time insight into your sexual behavior so they can tweak your premiums accordingly. If you don't suck dicks in the club every night then you have nothing to hide.

Achievements (1)

jtwiegand (3533989) | about two weeks ago | (#47826863)

I'm sure if there were achievements for driving safely in conjunction with the rollout people would adopt it. I can see it now:

"Merger achievement awarded: 500 cars allowed to merge into your lane from an onramp."

No. (1)

DigitalSorceress (156609) | about two weeks ago | (#47827131)

Simply put, NO, I will not do this.

I have quietly suffered a great number of infringements on my privacy, but I draw the line here.

My driving record shows 26+ years with only one ticket ever (and that was 20 years ago, for being 15mph over the limit) and never an accident or claim except for when a tree limb broke my windshield.

There are plenty of insurers our there who would LOVE to have my business as I'm certainly paying in more than they're ever likely to have to pay out for me, thanks.

I can't wait (1)

beefoot (2250164) | about two weeks ago | (#47827205)

I can't wait to receive discount for being a good driver. By tracking my usage pattern on my phone, insurance companies will be surprised how good am I when I'm behind the wheel. They will all fight to get me as a customer. In turn, I will go out to pay a $25 cheapo phone and tell them that is my main phone. They can track it day and night, the phone will never get used whether I'm behind the wheel or in my house :-) I can't wait.

Re:I can't wait (1)

number17 (952777) | about two weeks ago | (#47827759)

They can track it day and night, the phone will never get used whether I'm behind the wheel or in my house :-) I can't wait.

Good luck with that. Where I live an odometer reading is required as well as the occasional drive clean test for plate renewal. Let us know what they say when you report the same reading each year.

If necessary, what's the best way to do it? (1)

eepok (545733) | about two weeks ago | (#47827815)

There are some things (very few) in this world that I simply accept to be inevitable. I predict that the cost of having non-tracked auto insurance will increase greatly in relation to the cost of tracked auto insurance. It will become costly to hold onto 100% privacy in your automobile transportation habits.

While I have the preference of not being tracked whatsoever, what limitations would you propose within such a tracking system to preserve as much privacy as possible while also promoting the risk analysis that an insurance company would want from the data?

My suggestions:
-- Record speed measurements every 5 seconds the engine is on.
-- Record mile traveled per day.
-- No GPS coordinates recorded. (No actual location.)
-- Transmit data only once per month. Frequent transmissions can be used as a means of obtaining location.

What say you?

Another Fee (1)

MagickalMyst (1003128) | about two weeks ago | (#47828131)

This is just one more way for the insurance companies to track you and provide you with insurance premiums based on your "driving history/usage". You're premiums probably won't go down - they will be "adjusted" to the new rate based on acquired data. And you will likely be charged a "service" fee for allowing them to collect and sift through your personal driving/gps data. It wouldn't surprise me at all if insurance companies started charging per kilometer - much like how ISP's now charge per gigabyte instead of a flat rate.

Re:Another Fee (1)

MagickalMyst (1003128) | about two weeks ago | (#47828137)

*your
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