Sapphire Glass Didn't Pass iPhone Drop Test According to Reports 207
A reader notes reports about why Apple didn't use sapphire glass screens in the latest iPhones as many expected. Sapphire screens were part of the iPhone 6 design until the glass repeatedly cracked during standard drop tests conducted by Apple suppliers. So Apple abandoned its sapphire plans before the iPhone 6 product launch September 9. VentureBeat has learned that recent supplier channel checks by an IDC analyst yielded several reports of the sapphire failures and Apple's decision against using the glass material. As we heard on Tuesday in Cupertino, both the iPhone 6 and the larger iPhone 6 Plus will ship with screens made of "ion-strengthened" glass. This was apparently Apple's second choice. IDC analyst Danielle Levitas says it isn't clear when exactly the drop-test failures took place, or when Apple abandoned plans for sapphire-screened iPhones. She says the poor drop-test results, combined with the relative high cost of sapphire glass, could have made plans to ship sapphire glass phones too risky. One researcher who covers GT Advanced Technologies, the company that was to produce the glass for the iPhone 6, wrote in a research note earlier this week that plans for the sapphire screens were cancelled in August, just weeks before the September 9 launch. The new Apple Watches (except the "Sport" version) do use sapphire for their screens. Levitas believes that the glass for the smaller 1.5-inch and 1.7-inch watch screens was less likely to break in drop tests.
didn't have to be worse.. (Score:5, Interesting)
..might simply have been not appreciably better than glass alternatives.
if true (this sounds like speculation) kudos apple for not releasing something just because they could.
Re:didn't have to be worse.. (Score:5, Funny)
... but it WAS worse. It broke easier when dropped. And EVERYONE drops their phone at one point or another.
When a visibly peeved Apple rep was asked for comment, they said "We found we couldn't drop it, so we dropped it. Now can you drop it?"
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it was _per reporting_. reality is unknown as yet. it may be due to a known cause, both in how sapphire is manufactured or how its used.
it may also be complete baloney. we just don't know.
Re:didn't have to be worse.. (Score:5, Interesting)
..might simply have been not appreciably better than glass alternatives.
if true (this sounds like speculation) kudos apple for not releasing something just because they could.
Or it could have been stronger, just not in Apples application. The shape of the phone and/or the mounting may have caused the glass to flex in such a way that it shattered easier. I suspect this leak was intentional, and Apple is trying to target the technology so other phones can't use it as a selling point by saying "Look, we have stronger glass than apple!"
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Or it could have been too expensive and Apple decided that secret failed drop tests forced them to gallantly abandon the project in favor of the cheaper alternative.
Re:didn't have to be worse.. (Score:4, Insightful)
So if the referenced article is to be believed...
Sometime early in August Apple decided to to with ion strengthened glass for the new iPhone 6 models. They then cancelled the orders for sapphire screens and did what... with only six weeks to go before launch, probably several weeks into full production, they placed an order for 10 million or so screens? Its not like you can phone Digikey and ask for 10 million screens and please have them here in 24 hours please and thank.
Any decision about screens was made many months ago so that the Ion Screen manufacturer would have sufficient time to make them and ship them prior to when the iPhone 6's production needed to start. And initial production was probably in June.
So more likely March or April.
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Re:didn't have to be worse.. (Score:5, Informative)
No, Apple didn't hype it, and never announced that they would use it on the phones. Lots of rumour sites saw apple buying a sapphire glass manufacturing company, and decided that 2+2=9.
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Well, sort of. Apple did promote it. They ended up releasing their watch with it and had some videos of the phones with it.
http://www.vox.com/2014/9/9/61... [vox.com]
Re: didn't have to be worse.. (Score:5, Insightful)
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Well I for one prefer a phone that doesn't shatter the first time I drop it. I know every one says "just get a case" but why on earth should I pay for phone and then a case... why not buy a phone with a better screen to begin with. Iphone and Ipod are already notorious for screens that crack when you look at them wrong.
I'm frequently annoyed by how the quality of products keep going down while the prices go up and no one appears to realize it. I'm not just talking about apple pick almost any product and loo
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1 Billion won't hurt Apple that much. They're not using it for now, but might use it in the future (and/or) in other products...
Ion strengthened? (Score:5, Insightful)
Isn't that what standard hardened glass is?
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even apple doesnt have enough fly swatters to get rid of all the marketspeak..
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Re:Ion strengthened? (Score:5, Interesting)
Apple's Ion Strengthened Glass (which, confusingly, they call Ion-X Glass on the Apple Watch) might be Gorilla Glass, but could also be Ashai Glass's Draontrail-X Glass which is similarly ion strengthened or maybe a new product from a different manufacturer.
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Is that $3 to replace a scratched screen, including all the AR coatings? At that price they might as well include three spare glass plates with every phone in case you scratch one.
As far as the rounded glass: I had a Nexus 3 with a curved screen and it was a good idea -- wish they still did that more.
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That's the cost of the glass plate. (Note: Traditionally the iPhone uses Gorilla Glass, but for some reason I don't know why Apple and Corning couldn't come to a marketing arrangement. Probably because Apple traditionally doesn't hype up the products of its suppliers - so it may be Gorilla Glass, but Apple will never use the term)
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Because if you say the iPhone comes with Gorilla Glass, you've locked yourself into a single supplier of a trademarked item. If you just say ion-strengthened glass, you can use any supplier that can meet your requirements, not just Corning.
Re:Ion strengthened? (Score:5, Informative)
Disclamer: I work in a glass factory.
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Ah true - I was thinking of chemically strengthened glass.
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Re:Ion strengthened? (Score:5, Interesting)
Speaking of glass with compressed surfaces. This has to be mentioned.
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prince_Rupert's_Drop [wikipedia.org]
Beware iPhones with tails.
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Those are really cool to play with...
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The processes described produces high compression strength. What about tensile strength? Portland cement concrete can be made to have tremendous compression strength but it's strength in tension is poor.
That's why a huge proportion of iphones I see have cracked screens - no one has figured out a cheap way to make really tough, thin glass with a high tensile strength. The weak corners and edges on iphones and the careless owners don't help. I wonder if we'll ever see a polymer-based material that has good enough scratch resistance and optical properties to be used for phone/tablet screens. That would be killer, though I'll take Gorilla Glass over portland cement for a screen any day.
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In plain English the surface of glass is not perfect, there are invisible gaps and fractures. Normally when glass bends these points fail as the gaps are expanded and pulled open on the side that is stretched. Gorilla Glass has those gaps stuffed which puts the whole surface under pressure. When it bends it's now just relaxing instead of splitting.
Nah (Score:2)
Re:Ion strengthened? (Score:4, Funny)
Re: Ion strengthened? (Score:4, Insightful)
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Those vegetables are ionions?
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Regular glass doesn't contain any ions, in the same way that regular vegetables don't contain any genes.
I think that you misspelled that, it should have said "regular vegetables don't contain any jeans"
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No, when it's an Apple product it is strengthened by iOns.
Non story (Score:2, Informative)
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Company tries two things, chooses the one that is better. News at 11.
Nope ..
News at 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10 AND 11 .. plus at 6AM, 7AM and 9AM there's a recap of the previous days related rumors and stories.
And I say this typing on a MacBook with an iMac to my right, my iPad downstairs, my Nano in my gym bag and my iPod touch in a drawer.
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Comment removed (Score:5, Interesting)
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Doesn't mean they'll lose money. It's still a factory producing products they can sell to companies. They can still sell the company too.
Even if it does lose them money, it'll let them move more of their overseas cash in tax-free.
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Brilliant! Apple fanboys will call it a feature. Hidden screen smartphones.
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You realize that screens already don't break unless they land screen side down on something pointed?
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That could make the screen easily removable, making it economical to repair a damaged phone without specialised tools.
That would impact on sales.
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They're using sapphire in the Touch ID sensor, the rear camera and the apple watch.
It's not even close to a loss.
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Drop vs. Scratch (Score:3)
Levitas believes that the glass for the smaller 1.5-inch and 1.7-inch watch screens was less likely to break in drop tests.
Watches are less likely to be dropped than phones, making scratch resistance a higher priority.
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Replaceable is better than any amount of drop or scratch resistance.
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Less likely to be dropped; more likely to get knocked against hard objects.
Sapphire glass? (Score:2)
Why would they use that? Other than snob appeal.
Re:Sapphire glass? (Score:5, Informative)
Is Sapphire Glass Supposed to be Shatter Resistant (Score:2)
I swear by sapphire glass for watches (which have been using it even for midtier models for ages) as it's incredibly scratch resistant, but I didn't think that necessarily translates to shatter resistant. I am curious though in terms of scratch resistance how sapphire crystal compares to gorilla glass (and similar products).
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It's the exact opposite. "Shattering" is a catastrophic structural failure, where object could no longer bend sufficiently and didn't have enough strength to withstand the force applied to it.
As a result, typically being "hard" results in being "fragile", whereas being "soft" results in being "hard to shatter". Hardened plastic used on older phones for example would scratch up easily but was very difficult to shatter, whereas modern gorilla glass is very hard to scratch, but shatters easily.
Sapphire, being
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Remains of a hard, sharp material like glass in a spacecraft would be life threatening. No gravity means they would hover around until someone drew them into their lungs, where they may cause all sorts of damage.
INB4 ... (Score:2)
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Transparent corrugated cardboard?
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The screens may have cracked when dropped (Score:3)
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suppliers tested? (Score:2)
shouldn't Apple be drop testing these?
i'm sure Apple does it's own testing, but if suppliers regularly have to do stuff like this it really makes me wonder what factors they test for
reminds me of this story about xbox one controller R&D [venturebeat.com]
in the middle of the article, you see the actual R&D testing of the new controller designs, all in grey
now, for anyone who has ever played video games, **especially gamers**...the ide
Another reason not to use sapphire for now (Score:2)
Everybody who gets an iPhone immediately puts it into a rugged, generally rubberized, case. All smartphones tend to be fragile, and the naked iPhone is slippery. Cases not only protect against damage, but prevent most drops from happening in the first place. An iPhone in a rubbery OtterBox is not going to slip out of your shirt pocket into the toilet.
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The problem with sapphire is that it's BRITTLE. Drop it and it will break. It's why steel is better than cast iron.
You aren't likely to drop a checkout scanner. Iphones though are regularly dropped.
The hardness is is great if you are worried ONLY about scratches.
Reminds me of cars until the 1950s (Score:5, Interesting)
It wasn't until the 1950s when the first controlled crash tests were done, that they discovered that the stronger car bodies were the worst possible thing you could do. They did nothing to reduce the kinetic energy of the occupants before impact. The car would hit, the strong body would stop moving almost instantly, and the occupants would keep flying forward at full speed until they hit the front of the car. This is what led to the crumple zones we have today - where the car body deliberately flexes and deforms to absorb crash energy, lessening the impact forces on the occupants.
I think phones are going to go the same way. Rather than build the bodies and faces stronger and stronger to try to make them survive drops, they're going to be replaced with flexible screens once those come down in price and become commonplace. Bend and flex to absorb the impact energy, not try to stiffly resist it until something shatters. Scratches can be handled by a disposable plastic protector (I go through about one a year, so it's not at all inconvenient).
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You misunderstand. They're build harder and harder to survive scratches. Not drops.
We already know that making glass harder generally also makes it more brittle, so folks behind Gorilla Glass have started introducing less brittleness to the glass in version 3 already.
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Yet a 1 mm tick plastic bezel around the glass would be nearly invisible and protect the glass too. If done right, it might even make manufacturing cheaper.
Sapphire and Steel (Score:2)
“All irregularities will be handled by the forces controlling each dimension. Transuranic, heavy elements may not be used where there is life. Medium atomic weights are available: Gold, Lead, Copper, Jet, Diamond, Radium, Sapphire, Silver and Steel.
Sapphire and Steel have been assigned”.
sport? (Score:2)
The new Apple Watches (except the "Sport" version) do use sapphire for their screens.
Presumably that's because athletes are more willing than other market segments to pay to repair or replace broken items.
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I'm thinking that's because athletes are more likely to hit their watches while doing activities.
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sapphire also repels water a little better. that wouldn't do anything to overall water resistance, of course, but would make reading off the display easier. which might be a benefit to using in "sporty" sweaty situations.
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It says that the sport version is the one that doesn't use sapphire, and the other ones do, contraindicating your explanation.
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Presumably that's because stupid people are more willing than other market segments to pay to repair or replace broken items.
FTFY
Comes down to surface area (Score:2)
Sapphire (Score:2)
As someone who is into watches, one of the things I have learned is:
Watch glass is either mineral crystal or sapphire crystal.
Mineral crystal is prone to scratching (as compared to Sapphire), but handles a direct impact relatively well. Sapphire crystal is much harder and is extremely resistant to scratching, but is much more shatter-prone than mineral.
Bullshit (Score:2, Interesting)
I've kept a number of different iPhones in pockets with keys for years, zero scratches. I've not seen an iPhone screen witch scratches (cracks if it's dropped, yes, but not scratches).
Also, they HAVE used Gorilla Glass. In fact I'd imagine the newer ones ALSO use Gorilla Glass, they just aren't saying that (which they did not in the past also).
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I get scratches from keys on my glass with the iPhone 5 and 5s. They are minimal but they do happen.
Guess they shouldn't have used Gorilla Glass then (Score:2)
I've not over years of use, I guess it's that weak-ass Gorilla Glass 2 [apple.com] the original post was wishing for. Hopefully Apple ditched them if you can simply scratch it with keys.
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Yes, I also have small scratches on my 5 and 5S model iPhones. However, my 4S is still immaculate and has been used and abused more than my newer models. The larger screen glass on the 5/5S seems to be made of a softer or different type that scratches easier.
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Not sure how I did it (I keep my 4s in a pocket with just a polishing cloth), but I've got a 1/4" scratch on mine. I've dropped my 3s in the past, but never dropped my 4s.
Re:Why not gorilla like everyone else? (Score:5, Informative)
Actually it's not. Moissanite (silicon carbide) [wikipedia.org] is harder. 9.5 on the Mohs scale, vs 9 for sapphire/corundum, 10 for diamond. Its structure is the same as diamond, except it alternates between silicon and carbon atoms, the silicon-carbon bond being nearly as strong as a carbon-carbon bond. I first ran across it (as an opaque conglomerate of smaller crystals) as guides for fishing rods - the hardness prevents braided lines from gouging a groove in the guide. There are a bunch of other materials harder than corundum, but I believe moissanite is the only transparent one.
Remember what your momma taught you - never trust a salesman.
Are you telling me? (Score:2)
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Excuse me, but the iphone 4 I'm using (gift from as friend) has a scratch near the top edge from when he fell down on it while biking (he weighs around 240). His jeans did not survive the fall, the phone did.
My old 3G never had any kind of screen protector on it and survived without a scratch on the front for years...
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Are you comparing standard phones to things like Vertu? Who else uses Sapphire screens on sub-$1k phones?
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I've got a 3 year old iPhone 4S. Never broken the glass on it, but it does have some minor scratching on the display.
I'm not surprised Apple went with gorilla glass -- sapphire is very hard, but also brittle -- cornings product is a bit softer, but much more resilient.
I'll probably be upgrading to a 6 sometime in the next month or so.
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I dropped my iphone 5 from 2 meters (i leave it to the Americans to make out how many badger's kidneys it is) to a hard, stone floor. Glass intact.
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Says the guy who still lives in a castle.
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The vast majority of smashed screens I've seen are people of questionable intelligence like teenage girls who see a phone as a fashion accessory, stuff the phone in their back pocket and are somehow surprised when the screen is cracked.
...and get Daddy to buy them a new one. It's all good, they needed an upgrade anyways. You can't be cool if you can't plug your headphones in from the bottom.
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I went 3 years with an iPhone 3G and 3 years with an iPhone 4s. No scratches in the glass. The 3g even survived a 12 foot fall onto concrete. It landed on a corner and the glass was fine. The back had a tiny dent but the glass was fine.
I was hoping the iPhone 6 would be 5s size. I hate big phones. If you can't sit down with the phone in your pocket it is too big.
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Because if you called it transparent alumina, people would accuse you of ripping off Star Trek.
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