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Gonzo Marketing: Winning Through Worst Practices

timothy posted more than 12 years ago | from the send-more-spam-and-call-a-lot dept.

The Almighty Buck 222

Reader Steve MacLaughlin (you can visit his blog here) contributed this review of Gonzo Marketing: Winning Through Worst Practices, which sounds like an interesting followup to The Cluetrain Manifesto. Whether micromarketing of this sort really takes off will depend chicken-and-egg-like on whether a few companies escape being annoying and actually get people interested in what they have to offer.

Christopher Locke, one of the co-conspirators of the best seller The Cluetrain Manifesto, has again set off to teach companies how to talk, not just offer lip-service, to their customers. In Gonzo Marketing: Winning through Worst Practices, Locke takes on the myths and monuments of marketing armed new ideas and a razor sharp wit. Buckle up. Hold on. Mr. Locke is going to take you on a wild ride to the new world of marketing.

While the book's frenzied style will be compared to that of Hunter S. Thompson, I view the book instead as the first real book written in hyperlink-style. Jumping all over the map and all over the mind in search of gonzo marketing. Scrolling from idea to author to tactic and back again around the horn again.

Locke devotes a portion of the book to a refresher course in The Cluetrain Manifesto?s teachings: Markets are conversations. The Web is a micromarket made up of individuals. Your mass market mind tricks won't work on us. Gonzo Marketing picks up from there with a deeper examination of how companies must understand how micromarkets operate.

Locke accomplishes this by giving readers a detailed examination of the evolution of current marketing thought. The experts and evangelists range from Marshall McLuhan to Noam Chomsky to Sergio Zyman and Seth Godin. I stopped counting books and articles Locke mentions or dissects when it hit 32. Gonzo Marketing is quick to point out when grand ideas, like Godin's "Permission Marketing," were nothing more than underhanded tactics to send us spam.

What Locke pushes forward instead is this notion of gonzo marketing. Gonzo marketing "is marketing from the market's perspective. It is not a set of tricks to be used against us. Instead, it's a set of tools to achieve what we want for a change." No more tricks. No more schemes. No more mass market messages.

Gonzo Marketing also explains the evolution of the micromarket. Mass production created the need for mass markets. But globalization has been cutting the mass market into smaller and smaller pieces for many years now. The rapid proliferation of the Internet has only increased the growth of these micromarkets. While only global giants were once exposed to the power of micromarkets now companies of every shape and size must learn to deal with them.

The bad news for companies is that micromarkets are here to stay. As Locke puts it, "The web is a non-stop planet-spanning celebration. And we ain't goin' back in the box." The good news is that companies can be active participants in these micromarkets. But Locke isn't talking about "hashbrowned or refried databases" but instead "genuinely social social groupings." Micromarkets are "collections of people, communities joined by shared interests." And the big catch is that you need to belong to these groups to have a conversation with them.

This all sounds very 1960s commune-esk. And some readers may quickly label Locke's ideas as being as foolhardy as those he criticizes himself. But the evidence of micromarkets in action are all around. Internet chat rooms allow micromarkets to flourish and communicate like never before. Interested in rare coinage from the ancient world? There's a micromarket and somewhere people are talking about it, and telling people where to buy the best Tiberius Aureus Tribune penny. Online personal Web logs, also called blogs, allow micromarkets to share ideas, discuss new products, and to speak their mind in a way that traditional journalism never allowed for. Think, Oprah Winfrey's Book Club x 50 million and growing. Get the picture

Locke points to companies like Ford Motor Company, Delta Airlines, Intel, and Bertelsmann who are already reaching out to micromarkets. In February 2000 Ford announced that it was giving each of its 350,000 employees a computer and Internet access, and it didn't take long for those other companies to follow suit. Sure, Ford wants to put technology in its people's hands, but "the real deal is that Ford has unleashed 350,000 independent and genuinely intelligent agents to fan out online and listen carefully." First people start listening, then they start talking.

Gonzo Marketing doesn't tell companies they can't market to customers -- but that they need to radically rethink how they communicate. Before the automobile, the transcontinental railroad was the only easy way to get to the west coast. Before the Internet, mass marketing was the only easy way you could communicate on a global scale. And the railroads of old were just as inefficient and costly as the bloated marketing budgets of today.

Where as Cluetrain described the disease in detail, Gonzo Marketing concludes with a cure for companies to begin using. While Locke often sounds anti-big business, he notes that it is these larger companies who have the best advantage in making the early "transition from traditional marketing to more intimate micromarket relationships." They can begin to experiment with gonzo marketing by skimming a little bit off the top of their massive advertising budgets. Companies need to value their employee?s individual interests, and to find ways to nurture those interests. Allow people to go out and be ambassadors for your company, even if their interests have nothing to do with what the company is selling. People are more likely to talk to people with whom they share common interests than to corporate talking heads that share no common ground. Think about it.

Gonzo Marketing makes for great reading because it gets the gears in your mind turning. Everyone says their employees are their best advertisers. What if you really put that kind of attitude into action? Taken individually, micromarkets may seem insignificant, but collectively they have the power to move mountains. Locke concludes Gonzo Marketing with instructions for those pioneers that want to make first contact with micromarkets: "Hook up, connect, co-create, procreate. Redeploy. Foment joy. Brothers in arms, sisters of Avalon, champions of the world get to work."


You can purchase this book at Fatbrain.

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222 comments

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fp (-1)

Dead Penis Bird (524912) | more than 12 years ago | (#2419843)

Propz to all dead penis birds

And logged-in trolls!

Re:fp (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2419860)

wh04... your p0st w4s f1rst. 0wn3rsh1p

MAD PROPZ TO ALL DEAD PENIS BIRDS! (-1)

Dead Fart Warrior (525970) | more than 12 years ago | (#2419867)

Nice FP!

You thought MS had sort of nazi-esque methods? Well, I will now, in this brief essay, reveal to you the hidden truth of Linux, an joint Finnish-German Nazi conspiration for revenge against the victors of WW2. Let's look at the evidence.



During the second World War, Finland was a close allied to the Third Reich, as is clearly illustrated by this photo [aol.com] of a finnish military aircraft. After the defeat of the Axis Powers, a revantionist urge abounds in both countries.



Linux was written by Finnish stuent Linus Thorvalds, a member of the small Swedish-speaking minority of Finland, well known for it's white supremacist tendencies. In this article [osnews.com] Torvalds expresses his enthusiasm and admiration for the German-led KDE [kde.org] project. He also makes some unclear statements about the claims of Richard Stallman [stallman.org] for calling the operating system GNU/Linux being invalid. Why is this? Obviously, the Nazi -and therefore Anti-Communist- Thorvalds here shows his support for his German allies against the Communist GNU [gnu.org] and GNOME [gnome.org] [gnome.org] projects.



But what does this hideous [cthulhu.org] Nazi conspiracy want? We cannot, at this point, know. But what we do know, is that Nazies are up to no good. To stop them from achieving whichever horrible goals they hav in mind, I would strongly discourage any use of the Linux kernel or the KDE. Instead, I would recomend the use of a truly democratic operating system [freegem.org.uk] .



Thank You.

What are "propz"? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2419932)

you ever heard of a tossed salad? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2419979)

it's the same thing. these guys are very friendly with each other.

Philosopher needed!!! (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2419994)

What is the meaning of it all? Why are we here and where did we come from? I want the answers...

Re:What are "propz"? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2419993)

Propz are found at the front of older airplanez.
Alternately, they are also found at the rear of most boatz and shipz.

Glad to be of help.

essentially (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2420208)

Basically some sort of communal respect in the form of verbal or written salutations

a question for the troll (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2419990)

how long do these "temporary" account blockouts last? and also when a post gets modded down with no comment like flamebait or troll does that mean its the work of our friend timothy?

Re:a question for the troll (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2420017)

how long do these "temporary" account blockouts last?

72 Hours (cause by like 5 "down mods" within 24 hours), but auto -1 accounts (Karma < -5) don't usually get modded down. Although, if they get annoying Taco & Co. usually slap the 72 hour ban on.

and also when a post gets modded down with no comment like flamebait or troll does that mean its the work of our friend timothy?

No, its an "Overrated" vote. And, as I've said before, if your karma is under -5, you automatically post at -1.

Re:a question for the troll (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2420137)

One is the loneliest number.

Propz to... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2420004)

...all dead CowboyNeal penis! Seriously, though, what is the best operating system? Also, what is the best UNIX text editor and the best UNIX window manager/ desktop environment?

Re:Propz to... (-1)

Dead Fart Warrior (525970) | more than 12 years ago | (#2420073)

ANSWERS:
WinME
Ported Visual Studio
WindowBlinds

Re:Propz to... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2420100)

What is the square root of 4?

IMPORTANT STUFF: (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2420031)

* Please try to keep posts on topic.
* Try to reply to other people comments instead of starting new threads.
* CmdrTaco is a flaming homosexual.
* Read other people's messages, blah blah blah...
* CowboyNeal is also a flaming homosexual.
* All comments will be moderated
* Where the fuck is egg troll?!?

woot (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2419844)

asdasd adaasd a dadaa

Fascinating. (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2419845)

Simply fascinating.

thrid psot (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2419846)

"Based on scientific studies X and Y, the average intelligence of an african-american is significantly lower than the rest of the american population," -Scientist

"DIE YOU RACIST BIGOT!!"
-Bond et al

Re:thrid psot (-1)

Guns n' Roses Troll (207208) | more than 12 years ago | (#2419962)

But it's true. Niggers are dumb as shit. Just like any group, there are exceptions. There are some very smart Blacks who hate niggers just as much as I do. Niggers hold back the Black race and give them a bad name.

I wonder if there's a chapter on... (2, Insightful)

ackthpt (218170) | more than 12 years ago | (#2419848)

I wonder if there's a chapter on flashing ads. There's a few on Slashdot that really tick me off, like the disk planet or whatever it is, I hate it so much I scroll it off the top as soon as I see it.


Nothing like irritation to inspire me to buy a product, eh?

Mass Murder! (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2420106)

Americans are now worse than terrorists, with
their precise bombs, bombing civilian targets, and
dead airports.

Fuck you. And I hope all of the anti-freedom shit
goes through in USA, you poor pussys.

how nice (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2420258)

"Americans are now worse than terrorists,"

wrong but please try again

" with their precise bombs, bombing civilian targets, and dead airports. "

maybe they should have thought of that when they decided to create a group of people who really just want to create havoc for the world and it's inhabitants.

"Fuck you."

the same to you with tassels

"And I hope all of the anti-freedom shit goes through in USA, you poor pussys. "

Oh are you hurt? Do you actually live in Afghanistan? If you are you are most likely not all that connected to the world in which you live as most people don't even have enough to eat in any conceivable manner.

However more likely you are one of the new breed of hippies which need something to whine about.

How about you actually think and do a little research about these problems. The ideas of these terrorists are about as flimsy as you can get and most of them are the result of their own problems that their governments don't do very well. These people are stupid thugs who are good for nothing.

The Palestenian view of things is waaay off. The entire area that they claim as the center of everything was almost totally vacant when we decided to help the Jews (you know those people who a guy named Hitler had a few years before decided he didn't like and decided to "convince" to "leave").

The Arabs are mainly idiots. If the governments of Egypt and Saudi Arabia decide to do business with us on our terms then that is their and only their business. Just because some spoiled Saudi Arabian hippie (yes it's about that level) decided to join up with people like the black panthers in America dosn't make him smart or right.

Re:I wonder if there's a chapter on... (1)

RelaxoRy (521050) | more than 12 years ago | (#2420107)

I did a search on daypop.com for the first thing that popped into my mind - "stuff" and look who's at the top. http://www.daypop.com/search?q=stuff&t=a&max=168 yay for bl0bz.

Snuck in here (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2419852)

Got in there secret way to got around the stupid "sorry nothing to see here message"

X-10...get the hint! (2, Redundant)

Green Aardvark House (523269) | more than 12 years ago | (#2419878)

From the /. article:

Whether micromarketing of this sort really takes off will depend chicken-and-egg-like on whether a few companies escape being annoying and actually get people interested in what they have to offer.

Wonder if someone at X-10 is reading this...or reading the book?

Re:X-10...get the hint! (2)

ackthpt (218170) | more than 12 years ago | (#2419910)

I'm actually a pretty laid back guy, I don't let things get to me, but those X10 ads really do. I fired off a rather profane letter to them concerning this practice. I got a very civil reply back, explaining how to opt out of it, which didn't work. Probably a chapter in there on 'how to ignore opt-out for biggie whopper bucks 8^)'

Granted, the X10 ads aren't annywhere as annoying as what you get on www.ezboard.com, tho apparently you can fork over $1 a month to keep that litter off your desktop. Pretty sneaky if you ask me...

Re:X-10...get the hint! (2)

guinsu (198732) | more than 12 years ago | (#2420163)

I sent an e-mail to postmaster@ezboard.com when I signed up there and started getting mointains of spam. Eventually I worked my way up to a vp and after a lot of complaining got them to stop selling my info and convinced them that they were selling stuff to a hardcore spammer.

Re:X-10...get the hint! (1)

AndroidCat (229562) | more than 12 years ago | (#2420234)

Toss their X10 site into your hosts file as 127.0.0.1. (In Windows95/98, rename x:\windows\hosts.sam to hosts.ini, and reboot of course.) That will shut them up!

I recall someone a while ago posting a list, or link to a list to /. of advertiser sites to toss into hosts to make most ads go away.

Re:X-10...get the hint! (3, Funny)

Black Parrot (19622) | more than 12 years ago | (#2420076)

> Wonder if someone at X-10 is reading this...or reading the book?

No, X-10 is a write-only operation.

Re:X-10...get the hint! (2, Insightful)

spaceyhackerlady (462530) | more than 12 years ago | (#2420128)

Wonder if someone at X-10 is reading this...or reading the book?

I too despise those idiotic X10 ads. But isn't it curious that everybody knows the name X10? They've attracted our attention and have created a very high profile brand name. Sounds like pretty good marketing to me.

It's a very fine line between attracting peoples' attention and pissing people off. If you don't risk pissing people off you don't risk attracting their attention either.

Now if they actually had something to sell...they could make a bundle!

...laura

Confusing blurb (1)

vought (160908) | more than 12 years ago | (#2419879)

Did you actually write that instroduction to this article?

This sentence, in particular, is rather confusing: Whether micromarketing of this sort really takes off will depend chicken-and-egg-like on whether a few companies escape being annoying and actually get people interested in what they have to offer.

Run-on alert!

Re:Confusing blurb (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2420165)

If I were an asshole, I would point out that "instroduction" is not a real word.

Re:Confusing blurb (1)

vought (160908) | more than 12 years ago | (#2420357)

Damn, if I only I could edit that post!

Re:Confusing blurb (0, Flamebait)

BFKeil (526965) | more than 12 years ago | (#2420354)

Are you a native speaker of English? This sentence isn't confusing at all! You've divided it up wrong, that's all. "chicken-and-egg-like" is used here as an adverb, modifying depend. The phrase "whether a few companies escape being annoying and actually get people interested in what they have to offer" is a good clause. It's used here as the object of the preposition "on."

Grammatically, this sentence is absolutely fine. Learn some grammar before you criticize that of others.

Successful marketing. (5, Interesting)

Matt2000 (29624) | more than 12 years ago | (#2419886)


The best way for marketing to be effective on me as a consumer is to... wait for it... show me products I am actually interested in.

Micro/macro/viral marketing call all suck it as far as I'm concerned. Show me things I have even a remote chance of buying and watch as advertising becomes effective for the first time in it's history.

Re:Successful marketing. (0, Offtopic)

Pemdas (33265) | more than 12 years ago | (#2419901)

Am I the only one who finds this comment ironic, given the poster's .sig?

Just curious...

And do that... (4, Insightful)

Greyfox (87712) | more than 12 years ago | (#2419935)

Without profiling you or intruding on your privacy in any way?

Man, you don't want much, do you?

Well, maybe not you per se, but a vocal segment of the slashdot community. There's something fundamental missing for the advertiser. Something simple... maybe he should ask you what you're interested in. That might be a little less annoying than current methods, and allows you to control what information they recieve.

Re:And do that... (2)

zerocool^ (112121) | more than 12 years ago | (#2420362)

You also have a valid point, but there are less invasive ways of target marketing than individual profiling

For example: The ads on slashdot. The people who run the site know what we look for in ads - first, no annoying javascripts or whavever else - the purpose of the site is to make the viewers happy, first and foremost, and you don't want to lose audience based on your ads. (For reference, see this piece in the FAQ [slashdot.org]
2nd, the /. ads are targeted for things i want. Rounded IDE cables, geek t-shirts, caffene fixes, webhosting, linux-ready hardware, etc.
Great example of excellent target audience marketing. Now for a not so good example:

The "NEW" TNN! - i was thrilled to death last week when they showed Star Trek TNG episodes from like 10 am to 3 am. I think i failed a chem test because i watched too much star trek (see my most recent comment under my user profile). HOWEVER, i just could NOT watch the commercials. They were not targeted at me. TNN didn't realize the demographic that would be watching star trek - instead they put up ads for Miss Cleo (call me naw) and NASCAR, etc.

You don't have to get invasive to have effective marketing.

~Z

Re:Successful marketing. (5, Insightful)

iso (87585) | more than 12 years ago | (#2419954)

I would like to point out that in order to find which consumers are interested in a company's product, market research is required. A lot of people around here complain about market research companies harvesting data from people, through cookies and devices like personal video recorders.

Privacy advocates are up in arms about this kind of research, but these people have to get it through their heads that these companies don't give a fuck who you are. To them you're just a number. A number who happens to like programming books, geek shirts, alternative music and donkey porn. And it is through that information that you can get what you want: "show me products I am actually interested in."

- j

You argue the privacy advocates' position (3, Insightful)

Loundry (4143) | more than 12 years ago | (#2420078)

Privacy advocates are up in arms about this kind of research, but these people have to get it through their heads that these companies don't give a fuck who you are. To them you're just a number.

And this is precisely why I am up in arms about that kind of research: because, to them, I am "just a number." Companies don't care that I am am human with notions of privacy and dignity. I'll take my privacy and dignity over someone else's notion of "what I might want to buy from them" every single time. To companies trying to make money, my privacy and dignity are barriers to their profit-making abilities. What gives them the right to take it?

And if you argue that people have no privacy, then I reserve the right to clandestinely take photographs of you masturbating and send those photos to everyone who knows you, including your employer, potential employers, and your extended family.

Re:Successful marketing. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2420104)

But I'm not interested in any of that. Except for the donkey porn of cause

Re:Successful marketing. (3, Insightful)

donglekey (124433) | more than 12 years ago | (#2420179)

Exactly, you are dead on. I'll just say that google has it right, everything2 could make money if they wanted, and slashdot could probably make a lot more, not through more ads (WHICH ISN'T THE ANSWER) but from being smart about it. I just clicked on an ad for frustration tees from Think Geek. I am likely to buy t-shirts. I am not likely to buy servers, I don't make decisions for a company. Will this be recorded? Not the last time I checked. There are many other ways too, you just have to think.

Tricking people into looking at shit they don't want... will not make them buy shit they don't want! Oh my god really? Punching the monkey and conning someone out of 2 minutes doesn't make people buy X10 cameras that they don't care about? Etc. That's why internet advertising doesn't work. It could.

Re:Successful marketing. (2)

radja (58949) | more than 12 years ago | (#2420003)

indeed. and most of the time I am not interested in buying anything. So I block ads. Now if I DO want to buy something.. I''ll look up tests. preferably comparitive tests. Independant tests. I am therefor, by definition, not interested in marketing messages. They don't show me the gamut of products I can choose from. Information gleaned from ads is suspect. "Information" in advertisements is just like statistics: it's not a LIE, but the skewed truth.

//rdj

Re:Successful marketing. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2420052)

That is not true. I made millions in just a matter of a few hours. And you can too! Just send me a few million dollars within a few hours of reading this message and not only will you receive information on how you too can make millions, but you will also receive good luck and increased sexual performance!

I don't know... (3, Funny)

Dirk Pitt (90561) | more than 12 years ago | (#2419888)

but it seems like only Disney could market Gonzo--don't they own the Muppets?


Wakka wakka wakka!

Re:I don't know... (1)

ackthpt (218170) | more than 12 years ago | (#2419948)

How about Ted Nugent, also known as Gonzo? [metal-reviews.com]

Re:I don't know... (2)

iso (87585) | more than 12 years ago | (#2419980)

FWIW Hunter S. Thompson [levity.com] is also known as Gonzo.

- j

Re:I don't know... (1)

ackthpt (218170) | more than 12 years ago | (#2419968)

Actually, that "chicken and the egg" part, does strike a chord. As I recall, Gonzo, the muppet was always surrounded by hens... He was ahead of his time!

The Good Doctor (2, Funny)

dingbat_hp (98241) | more than 12 years ago | (#2420005)

Of course Disney own Gonzo...

- but they're so afraid of Hunter S. Thompson, they'll never enforce it.

Any journo who shoots his own typewriter is OK by me 8-)

Re:I don't know... (1)

Black Parrot (19622) | more than 12 years ago | (#2420102)

> but it seems like only Disney could market Gonzo--don't they own the Muppets?

At least one other muppet is known to be a lose cannon.

Re:I don't know... (1)

Black Parrot (19622) | more than 12 years ago | (#2420232)

s/lose/loose/

YASB (yet another slashcode bug) (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2419891)

When Email addresses are displayed, the first parenthesis is in large font and not bold, and the second one is in small font and bold.

how are you gentlemen? (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2419896)

all your quaeda are belong to us !!!

Damn. (1, Offtopic)

GoNINzo (32266) | more than 12 years ago | (#2419913)

I thought "finally, a way to market myself!"

Then I read the fine print. and I was all excited too...

Course, if you also realize that 'gonzo' also is a method of filming low-budget porno, this book takes on a whole new meaning.

Re:Damn. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2420011)

ok...come on. Why did someone moderate this guy down. It's funny, in a coincidental way.

wow... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2419921)

story's been up 15 minutes and there are a whopping 17 comments on it?

Marketing and control (5, Insightful)

Alien54 (180860) | more than 12 years ago | (#2419922)

Earlier marketing models and research have been devoted to controlling the market. This has been done using the very best methods using the best techniques that modern psychology has to offer. This is where the vast majority of the marketing money has gone.

Yes, If you want to be paranoid, you can call this mind control. Or you can give some other politically correct name and feel better about it.

But in any case what has happened with the internet is that the monkeys have escaped from their cages, so to speak. This is what the concept of micromarketing has tapped into, but it is more global than that.

This is because marketing is not just for business. It is also used for political agendas.

Marketing tries to aggregate people into masses. This is because it is easier to deal with the demographics of large groups of people. Also, large masses of people are easier to manipulate with images and emotions such as fear, sex, etc.

If you cut the visceral reactions to various images out of the loop, then there is a problem. Then you end up with dealing with individuals with individual thoughts and ideas and experiences. It is far easier to market to a million people as a mass market that to market to a million independent thinking individuals.

Re:Marketing and control (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2420013)

Fuck you.

Important Stuff:
Please try to keep posts on topic.
Try to reply to other people comments instead of starting new threads.
Read other people's messages before posting your own to avoid simply duplicating what has already been said.
Use a clear subject that describes what your message is about.
Offtopic, Inflammatory, Inappropriate, Illegal, or Offensive comments might be moderated. (You can read
everything, even moderated posts, by adjusting your threshold on the User Preferences Page)

Re:Marketing and control (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2420116)

F**k You

Your attempts to control the minds of others by fear and intimidation will ultimately fail, Bill Gates.

To Onlookers - The inter-relationship of marketing to mind control is one of the dirtly little secrets of the business. To discuss how micromarketing is a symptom of people breaking free of the mass marketing customer control strategies is very much on topic. Only someone with something to hide would react so harshly to this.

Intelligent life forms carry on conversations. UnIntelligent Life forms struggle with the concept.

Re:Marketing and control (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2420146)

Go to hell.

Re:Marketing and control (2)

sql*kitten (1359) | more than 12 years ago | (#2420033)

If you cut the visceral reactions to various images out of the loop, then there is a problem. Then you end up with dealing with individuals with individual thoughts and ideas and experiences.

Imagine software that could say "he bought nappies last week, and he has a subscription to the racing channel, and he lives near a high crime area, we can take these images and those images and show him a sports car with side impact bars and an immobiliser, priced at what we think he can afford", and do that hundred times a second for a hundred different web site users or even viewers of interactive TV.

It is far easier to market to a million people as a mass market that to market to a million independent thinking individuals.

I question this assertion. Think about it this way, maybe you could spent $1M on an advertising campaign to ten million people via traditional media, it costs $0.10 to communicate with each person. Or, you could spend $10M on fancy technology, and show your message to the million visitors to your web site, costing you $10 per person.

The question is, how many responses (sales) do you need to break even? And how much money are you actually paying for each response?

It may turn out that it is easier (i.e. costs less for the same net result) to spend the money up front on the technology. Fewer people will see it, it will cost more per person, but maybe the net result will be ten thousand actual sales rather than a hundred, if you do it right. It's only difficult because it's new: I bet that selling washing powder and automobiles was poorly understood at one point too.

The issue isn't mass psychology, per se, it's what I will call meta-psychology, a heuristic for tailoring the delivery of a message based on the characteristics of the recipient. If there is a scalable way to analyze clickstream and past buying patterns, running meta-psychology algorithms over that data and build an ad campaign on the fly from relatively generic assets, and you can buy that software off the shelf from Oracle, then the game changes, radically.

Re:Marketing and control (2)

Alien54 (180860) | more than 12 years ago | (#2420070)

I question this assertion. Think about it this way, maybe you could spent $1M on an advertising campaign to ten million people via traditional media, it costs $0.10 to communicate with each person. Or, you could spend $10M on fancy technology, and show your message to the million visitors to your web site, costing you $10 per person.

I was thinking that the cost of individualizing and tailoring the ads to a million people on a one by one basis would be more than the costs of for a broad demographic. As in "this one responds better to red, that one to blue" etc.

How is this News for Nerds? (0, Offtopic)

GypC (7592) | more than 12 years ago | (#2419944)

Sorry, I'm going to whine. Moderate me down if you must, but...

If there's one thing I'd rather not hear about it's marketing. For the love of Bob, make it stop! *sobbing*

Thank you.

Re:How is this News for Nerds? (2, Interesting)

dingbat_hp (98241) | more than 12 years ago | (#2420087)

The really scary parts of marketing are that:

We (geeks) are good at it.

It's fun !

Occasionally I've got involved in marketing (I can handle it, honest, I've just got a bit of a cold at the moment). The surprising ease of it and the ease by which it's possible to not only do it, but to get it right , makes me even more convinced that Scott Adam's view is right (marketing people are those who can't play piano well enough for a brothel). If you're going to play ball with consumerism, then you need to look at marketing. The fact that the field is full of extremely stupid people without the brains of a HR droid shouldn't put you off making your own marketing work right.

#ob_karma_whore
Paco Underhill's book Why We Buy [amazon.co.uk] , is a great intro to common sense applied to retail marketing. Much off it works for e-comm sites too.

Summary please (-1)

Juan Epstein (238683) | more than 12 years ago | (#2419951)

I lost interest in the article after "Reader Steve MacLaughlin contributed..."

Anyone want to sum it up for me in 10 words or less.

Re:Summary please (-1)

Dead Fart Warrior (525970) | more than 12 years ago | (#2420023)

Stupid Book Report about marketing that no "so-called" nerd will ever read, cause we don't give a shit about marketing (at least that's what I got after reading "contributed to this review").

NEXT!

Re:Summary please (-1)

cyborg_monkey (150790) | more than 12 years ago | (#2420067)

Heeelloo!

\/\/()()T!

Re:Summary please (-1)

Juan Epstein (238683) | more than 12 years ago | (#2420255)

I was wondering where you were today.

How did the parole hearing go?

Re:Summary please (-1)

cyborg_monkey (150790) | more than 12 years ago | (#2420340)

I got busted out!! And now that I am out of prison, I will have less time to post on /.

Oh well.

Rate your mate! (0, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2419966)

(from http://staff.norman.k12.ok.us/~lkramer/image%20gra mmar/teachers/strats/strats9/strat91.html)

Strategy 1: Administer the Grammar Income Test

The Grammar Income Test is one of those ideas teachers wish scholars had invented. It is a test that measures a student's grammatical knowledge and then uses that measurement to predict the student's potential income. To motivate interest in conventions, give your students this test.

University of Mottsburgh Occupational
Inventory of Grammatical Knowledge
As demonstrated in the research of Dr. Edward McCormick, an individual's habits of grammar correlate with her or his income. Test results indicate that one can predict with 80% accuracy the income of an individual based on his answers to the questions below. Use this quiz to see what income level your grammatical patterns place you.

Instructions: Mark each sentence as "C" if it is grammatically correct, "I" if it is incorrect, or "?" if you are uncertain. Wrong answers count as a minus two. A question mark, indicating you are uncertain, only counts as a minus one. Keep in mind that errors may be of any variety: spelling, punctuation, capitalization, or usage.

1. Her choice will strongly effect the outcome.

2. We have alot of work to do.

3. Mottsburgh is a busy industrial city, thousands of cars and trucks move through it every day.

4. "I suppose", she remarked "that success comes only with time."

5. The company should receive the package tomorrow.

6. Its impressive to hear what she has done.

7. She was late, however, she did make the presentation.

8. Give the book to whom?

9. When the ship arrives we can begin the journey.

10. We rafted down the grand mountain river.

11. The name of the book was "Outbreak."

12. There were four in the group: Ann, Jim, Theo, and Amanda.

13. He sings good.

14. You shouldn't lie on the wet grass.

15. He paid all the interest on the principle.

16. I wish to go irregardless of his decision.

17. He doesn't know history very well. As you can see from his answers in class.

18. He imagined that Hawking would have all the answers but Hawking just posed more questions.

19. Spiraling in the Andromeda Galaxy, Dr. Vilhelm insists that there is alien life on the Andromeda planet called Lanulos.

20. We packed all of our luggage, then we were on our way to the airport.

Scoring Answer Key: 1. I, 2. I, 3. I, 4. I, 5. C, 6. I, 7. I, 8. C, 9. I, 10. I, 11. I, 12. C, 13. I, 14. C, 15. C, 16. I, 17. I, 18. I, 19. I, 20. I. (Click here for corrected sentences.)

Number Wrong Projected Salary Occupational Level

0 to -4 $150,000 and above top executive

-5 to -6 $90,000 to $150,000 upper management

-7 to -8 $60,000 to $ 90,000 key personnel

-9 to -12 $25,000 to $ 60,000 semi-skilled

-13 to -18 $10,000 to $ 25,000 unskilled

-19 or more $0 to $ 10,000 unemployable

After students have taken and scored this test, explain that over the next few days you are going to increase their incomes by at least $30,000 each. Later, after you have worked with some of the grammatical concepts in this test, reveal that the test was fabricated. However, explain that the concept of the test is very real.

Every day individuals who make grammatical errors are victims of a pervasive but seldom discussed prejudice. People assume that those who make frequent grammatical errors are unintelligent, not very knowledgeable, and incompetent. None of this may be true. Language habits are more indicative of social background than education and ability. However, any business executive will support the notion that grammatical skill directly affects promotion. So, the idea behind the Grammar Income Test is valid, although the scored income level may not be.

100% accurate! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2420056)

Hey, it works!!!

Taco & company score as "unemployable"!

Re:Rate your mate! (2, Funny)

jeff67 (318942) | more than 12 years ago | (#2420119)

The link is missing, where is the rite answers at?

Re:Rate your mate! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2420141)

I bet I can outscore our CEO!

Re:Rate your mate! (1)

GTRacer (234395) | more than 12 years ago | (#2420337)

Where the hell is the Garammar Nazi?

Principal of a loan, not principle.

Good day!

GTRacer
- Doesn't make anywhere near the "-4" income...

Re:Rate your mate! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2420356)

Seriously. Perhaps this is why the author is a teacher and not the principal?

You have two choices : (-1)

Guns n' Roses Troll (207208) | more than 12 years ago | (#2419975)

- Give up all your privacy to a giant company
- Masturbate furiously to pictures of god [anna-fans.com] .

Your choice. Slow Down Cowboy! Slashdot requires you to wait 2 minutes between each successful posting of a comment to allow everyone a fair chance at posting a comment. It's been 1 minute since you last successfully posted a comment If you this error seems to be incorrect, please provide the following in your report to SourceForge: Browser type User ID/Nickname or AC What steps caused this error Whether or not you know your ISP to be using a proxy or some sort of service that gives you an IP that others are using simultaneously. How many posts to this form you successfully submitted during the day* Please choose 'formkeys' for the category! Thank you.

CmdrTaco is a pixie... (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2419984)

...and a damn sexy one, at that!

Is there a chapter on: #@ +1 ; Informative @# (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2419987)

How To Win The U.S. Public's Approval
With Groupthink

authored by Bush and Cheney

Thank you and have a nice weekend.

We get error, what? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2419999)

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Micromarketing not that bad. (1)

TedCheshireAcad (311748) | more than 12 years ago | (#2420014)

Micromarketing does a much better job than mass marketing. If an ad company sees that I am looking around for car prices, then hell, let them show me ads for cars. If they collect the data from my web surfing, and see that I am in the market for a new PC, then by golly, show me prices and products! Personally, I would much rather see MegaUltraSuperComputerWorld's prices on new CPU's than a "new herbal cure for arthritis". We're not going to get rid of marketing, so why not settle for targeted marketing? Any ad agencies reading? My interests are BMW's and BWM accessories, Linux, and PC hardware. Let the ads come!

Why Slashdot Sucks (0, Troll)

jonbrewer (11894) | more than 12 years ago | (#2420026)


All my Gonzo marketing attempts set off the Lameness filter. :-(

Lameness filter encountered. Post aborted!

let me be your friend (1)

datatrash (522537) | more than 12 years ago | (#2420041)

Perhaps I don't fully understand "Gonzo Marketing" (advertisers are so cutting edge and wacky) but from what I understand of micromarketing it is what the scum of the earth will use to get you to own worthless crap(as Deltron says "Flame on, baby, flame on").

Seriously though, I am assuming this is a wider version of target marketing which basically says that you advertise certain products to certain markets based on things such as where you live (ie certain zipcodes are broken down into more or less "Trucks and Guns," "Ferraris and Hottubs" etc) so that those money isn't wasted on those who aren't considered part of the intended audience. Of course, there is nothing wrong with this in theory. The problem comes, I think, on more subtle planes. MacLaughlin writes But globalization has been cutting the mass market into smaller and smaller pieces for many years now. This is true and this is where target marketing comes in. It takes those small slices and feeds them only the type of items that they as a group are expected to want. Sure, this is pure theory, but what certain folks like Joseph Turow [uchicago.edu] argue in his book Breaking Up America explicate, in a manner much more lucid than this, is that target marketing just further divides Americans into small non-interchangeable sections that have images as ideals that are only created for them (to bastardize his arguement).

So, Gonzo marketing. Ford is giving its employees computers to go out into the web community, watch them and figure out what they like, what they want, how they talk, how they communicate. But what is the goal? The goal is to create images that reflect what small segments of the population want. Life becomes less of a search and more of a pick and choose. Employees become employees around the clock, walking viral marketers. Citizenship takes a backseat to selling and we all become full time spies for our companies. Great.

Anyhow, personally I don't like it.

Attn: Moderators (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2420044)

Please waste your mod points on this post. It's off-topic.

Moderate this post! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2420053)

It's off-topic and needs moderation.0

Off-topic. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2420055)

Please moderate.

viral^H^H^H^H^Hmicro marketing (2, Informative)

shibut (208631) | more than 12 years ago | (#2420060)

All these principles make sense and on paper work great. However, it's been tried before - it was called viral marketing (and don't tell me that employees of .com-s in 98-early '00 were not enthusiastic about their jobs and true embassadors, I was living in the bay area at the time and could feel it from every friend I had). Most companies found that in order for the "viral" part to work they had to give away a service/product that costs them money for free. Later, they started charging for it and that's when the real test came and in many cases the virally added consumers that came for the freebies left. The only viral service I can think of that I still use now that it isn't operating on a loss is Snapfish [snapfish.com] . I like their processing and posting (good for overseas parents) and this way I don't have to remember to pick up my photos. Still, if I found out that they were way more expensive than other alternatives I'd drop them in a heartbeat. Lucky for me they're priced well.

Calling all moderators! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2420071)

This post is off-topic, so please mod it down.

Mod this down! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2420072)

This is an off-topic post. Moderate promptly.

micromarkets (4, Interesting)

SirSlud (67381) | more than 12 years ago | (#2420081)

... are basically a return to the idea of mom & pop. We all find blanket marketing annoying, but we have friends who 'advertise' whatever they are interested in to us, every day, and it doesn't bother us. It's perception. If we feel that the carrier of the message has alot to gain from you being receptive, we're more likely to 'rebel'. Much of this subject centers around the perceived gain of communication .. ie, some employee/salesperson posting on a board or hosting a community or whathave you. Since the messanger isn't "CORP X" but "Joe who works for CORP X", we tend to think less about putting more money in the pocket of the company and more about Joe probably saying what he's saying because he /believes/ in it. He's not going to win a zillion dollars if the communication results in a sale (hell, the company has no way of really tying you back to him), nor is he going to lose his job (unless he truely is a salesperson) if you subsequently decide not to purchase, or do so from a competitor.

So, we had: people at company -> communication/marketing dept -> you

And the dream is: people at company -> marketing dept -> people at company -> you

Which is best for all of us, as it puts social responsibility and accountibility back in the hands of a community (ie, community of exployees) rather than the all-or-nothing super-hygenic communication that comes out of board-meeting-inspired mass ad campaigns. Note that I am not saying that the form and message of that communication won't still go through the marketing dept and PR-sanitizers, but for the most part, humans want to talk to humans; not answering machines, billboards, or any other one-to-many communication platform.

I mean, at the end of the day, we all work for companies, and I don't believe we're all evil. We are just capable of intrusive or annoying behaviour far better when our names and individuality is 'trimmed' from the communication. People are very very cynical today about advertising, but we have to understand that we all, to some extent, depend on it. The goal is to balance the needs of the consumer (to allow them to distinguish between marketing and personal communication) while bringing marketing more inline with the types of communication that we actually enjoy and participate in every day.

This one's off-topic. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2420085)

Moderators, do your thing...

Some advice for moderators: (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2420086)

Mod this down, because it's off-topic.

Any actual effect from "Cluetrain"? (3, Interesting)

sphealey (2855) | more than 12 years ago | (#2420110)

There was a lot of excitement around "The Cluetrain Manifesto" when it was first published.

Personally, I found it to be similar in many ways to "Seven Habits of Highly Effective People": a couple of useful observations and good ideas, wrapped up in many pages of useless blather, pseudo-religion, annoying condescension, and obviousity.

Has anyone seen any effect, anywhere in the world or the world's economy, resulting from the publication of "Cluetrain"? From the perspective of late 2001, that is, with all the dotbombs now fully buried, not 1999.

sPh

Off-topic post! (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2420114)

The moderators are gonna have a field day with this one...

Please track my personal habits! (1)

shreak (248275) | more than 12 years ago | (#2420121)

I would LOVE for my PVR to track my viewing habits for the networks/ cable syndicates. I would love for my grocery store to have a profile of how I buy my groceries. In return it would be nice if I could get a discount for allowing by personal habits to be tracked, but I'd settle for just not haveing the information linked to me personally.

I love the idea of easly aggregated data. Maybe then someone will figure out that there are untapped "micro" markets outside the mainstream.

I don't buy most of the crap that is sold and most of the crap that is sold isn't aimed at me. But that doesn't mean that there aren't 100K just like me out there (maybe more!) And I'm sure there is someone out there that would love to provide the services I am interested in so I'll part with my cash!

OFF-TOPIC (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2420126)

Moderate.

Not related to anything... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2420162)

http://www.bemusmusic.com

Gonzo writing (-1)

SirPsychoSexyMD (521258) | more than 12 years ago | (#2420167)

Doesn't Hunter S. Thompson have a patent on gonzo writing?

don't need marketing (1)

Kallahar (227430) | more than 12 years ago | (#2420190)

What happened to the time when companies would start small and then grow? In the "internet age" people want to get rich quick, which doesn't work unless you're in a tech bubble (pop!)

There are definately good internet businesses out there. My favorite is DreamHost [dreamhost.com] . All Debian, hosting 30,000 domains now, handled my site getting slashdotted last month, and no annoying money-making-schemes. It's a place that's run by programmers, for programmers, and therefore it is excellent for people wanting php, mysql, perl, shell, encryption, etc etc etc.

The only companies that need agressive marketing are the ones that people would not normally buy products from.

Travis

WTF is this?? (3, Insightful)

denshi (173594) | more than 12 years ago | (#2420209)

Gonzo Marketing doesn't tell companies they can't market to customers -- but that they need to radically rethink how they communicate. Before the automobile, the transcontinental railroad was the only easy way to get to the west coast. Before the Internet, mass marketing was the only easy way you could communicate on a global scale. And the railroads of old were just as inefficient and costly as the bloated marketing budgets of today.
What kind of stupid analogy is this?? 'railroads inefficient and costly'? WTF planet are you on? The auto is a fantastically inefficient vehicle compared to a rail system. The auto generally expends, minimum, 3 times the fuel that a train expends when transporting proportional masses. There's a reason trains, rather than sedans, are used for freight. MacLauglin is spouting some kind of stupid American 'my car is god' fetishism. It's getting in the way.

There are real economic trends that support "Gonzo Marketing". Much of it will come true. But this kind of bad writing isn't helping. One trend is that everyone is this future will be a writing. Hopefully MacLaughlin takes some time between now and then to learn how to write effectively.

Constrasting view? (5, Funny)

sharkey (16670) | more than 12 years ago | (#2420217)

Locke wrote the book, but I want to hear Demosthenes take on the book and subject before I buy it.
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