×

Welcome to the Slashdot Beta site -- learn more here. Use the link in the footer or click here to return to the Classic version of Slashdot.

Thank you!

Before you choose to head back to the Classic look of the site, we'd appreciate it if you share your thoughts on the Beta; your feedback is what drives our ongoing development.

Beta is different and we value you taking the time to try it out. Please take a look at the changes we've made in Beta and  learn more about it. Thanks for reading, and for making the site better!

No GNOME For Solaris 9

Hemos posted more than 12 years ago | from the bad-news-for-the-boys-of-gnome dept.

GNOME 481

Nailer writes: "Subject says it all really. A (very brief) Linuxgram article claims GNOME 2.0 won't be ready for Solaris 9 and the OS will ship with CDE and Motif as defaults. I'm just waiting for the inevitable announcement the GTK port of OpenOffice has been cancelled."

cancel ×
This is a preview of your comment

No Comment Title Entered

Anonymous Coward 1 minute ago

No Comment Entered

481 comments

GTK StarOffice cancellation? (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2434503)

As if anyone would care. StarOffice exists for one reason only - to poach MS Office users. If you are on a pltform that does not support MS Office (or your platform is not named Solaris), don't expect too much support

No COCKGNOME For Solaris 9! (-1)

BiffJerky (526523) | more than 12 years ago | (#2434506)

What are the linux cockgobblers to do?

Re:No COCKGNOME For Solaris 9! (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2434544)

cockadoodledoo

frothy urine (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2434507)

FP!

Fscking hell... (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2434515)

make that 3rd post...

:(

Damn (1, Informative)

O (90420) | more than 12 years ago | (#2434508)

This is really a shame. I use solaris at work, and CDE is really bad. Also, there is a big hole recently discovered in CDE, and Sun has yet to release a patch. Gnome would have been so nice.

no offense but... (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2434511)

everyone knows gnome is dying...

i know it sounds cliche or trollish, but they are getting smoked by kde in a major way...

They need to come out with something really spectacular soon or forever be a distant second place to kde...

Re:no offense but... (1)

plastercast (234558) | more than 12 years ago | (#2434514)

WHy do you say that GNOME is dying? Is the code somehow becoming less functional? That would be a first!

Re:no offense but... (1)

eric_ste (446052) | more than 12 years ago | (#2434555)

Don't you think dos 3.3 is dead? Has the code become less functional? hmm.. ;)

Re:no offense but... (1)

plastercast (234558) | more than 12 years ago | (#2434573)

Obviously not, but this is comparing apples to oranges. DOS is depreciated because new pieces of software do things that it won't. To follow through on your analogy, what does the new KDE do that GNOME won't?

Re:no offense but... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2434521)

...and just 1 year ago, it seemed the opposite.
The tables have really turned.

who cares? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2434525)

I don't use gnome or kde. bash is all I need.

Re:who cares? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2434668)

ATTs Korn shell owns j00!

Re:no offense but... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2434576)


Why is Gome on it's way out? Why is KDE so much better? It's really hard not to sound trollish when you don't supply any facts.

Re:no offense but... (1, Informative)

grammar nazi (197303) | more than 12 years ago | (#2434590)

In this particular instance, Gnome was smoked by CDE! Now that's saying something.

Finally, on a grammatical note, please refrain from refering to Gnome as 'they'. Gnome is a desktop environment and should clearly be referred to in a singular sense.

On my personal preference, use the word very rather than really. If you do, then you'll sound twice as intelligent as you currently do.

I'm just trying to improve the quality of Slashdot with this post, so please don't mod me into oblivion.

Re:no offense but... (1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2434635)

I partly agree. The core of GNOME is suffering from a lot of rot, and nobody seems to care about fixing it. Red Hat certainly doesn't. Ximian did care, but were sort of overruled on the push to get GNOME 2.0 out quickly. And now it seems they are mostly giving up on one potentially dead-end project (GNOME) to focus on another certain dead-end project (Mono). Eazel kept people interested in GNOME for a while, but now that they're tits up, Konqueror has been able to catch up with Nautilus in many respects.

That leaves Sun. Having GNOME be the default desktop on Solaris was supposed to be a big thing, but now Sun seems to be walking away from that too. Maybe they finally realized that people buy Solaris for reasons other than a friendly desktop environment. I mean, if they managed to get by for the last five years on a partially broken implementation of the Worst Desktop Ever (TM), not shipping GNOME is probably not going to hurt them. Besides, their primary competitors ship with the same or worse crap, and anybody who cares installs another WM.

So where does that leave GNOME? In the crapper is my guess. I think GTK will live on for a while, but the rest of GNOME is going to die off. If Red Hat and Ximian don't care enough to concentrate their effort on GNOME, who does? At this point, GNOME only has a few advantages left over KDE: prettier icons & themes, better office apps (Abiword, Gnumeric, Evolution, etc.), and a smaller memory footprint. But at the rate KDE is progressing, GNOME is going to be eating dust before long.

Face it, GNOME is dead. (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2434523)

With the impending release of Qt 3 and soon KDE 3.0, GNOME
should just call it quits...

Trolling for Trolltech!

Re:Face it, GNOME is dead. (3, Informative)

plastercast (234558) | more than 12 years ago | (#2434558)

Why? Because KDE now has a larger number infront of it? That really doesn't make it any better or worse. The fact is that the user level differeces between KDE2 and 3 will be much less than GNOME1 to GNOME2 (fixing gtk-flash-bug, aa text, pango, and so on). I can't help but think that if the GNOME project upped the release number everytime I see a new GNOME-related file in sid, everyone would be saying that KDE was dying and GNOME was developing amazingly quickly.

BTW, this should not in anyway be taken as a knock against anyone who use/develop/etc KDE, just those who feel the need to bash the alternative.

Re:Face it, GNOME is dead. (2, Interesting)

hexix (9514) | more than 12 years ago | (#2434686)

You're right in saying GNOME is not dead. The development is very heavy in GNOME 2.0

However, every time you see a gnome component getting updated in sid isn't because there is something changed/new, it's just the debian developers fixing something with the package. Thats why the version will be 1.4.1-x
x being the package revision number.

All the GNOME developers seem to be busy developing for 2.0 and so they aren't working on 1.4 as much, if at all. Which is fine by me as long as I get to use 2.0 some time. Although, I wish a new version of Nautilus would come out as there is a lot of little quirks in it's behavior (especially placement of icons on the desktop).

Re:Face it, GNOME is dead. (1)

plastercast (234558) | more than 12 years ago | (#2434714)

Well, what you say is partically true, but the new gnome componets are very often updated, not just repackaged. For instace, many different versions of bonobo have come out during GNOME1.4. Same for GCONF, Nautilus, and many/most of the GNOME files.

Anthrax: The threat is real. (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2434526)

As you all know, Americans are already on alert for any possible bioterror attacks. Unfortunately there is a new, much more worrisome threat out there now.

If you receive an e-mail message from an unfamiliar person, DO NOT OPEN IT!!! It may contain ANTHRAX, which will be blown into your room via your computer's fan.

Experts at the CDC agree that this is probably the most effective and deadly way of spreading biological agents, and all Americans are urged to be cautious.

If you get a message that seems suspicious, IMMEDIATELY TURN OFF YOUR COMPUTER and call 911. The police will need to investigate whether the message contains anthrax or another biological or chemical weapon.

Subject headers that should be treated as suspicious include:

Make money fast
Free XXX hot pics
Virus alert!

or variations of the above. Also, anything from a user called 'listserv' at any domain should be considered dangerous.

Protect yourself! Call 911 if you encounter any of these e-mail messages, or any others that you don't trust!

Does Solaris Need Gnome? (2, Insightful)

ll5 (522784) | more than 12 years ago | (#2434528)

I have to wonder if any OS that is primarily used as a server needs something like Gnome. The experience I have had with Solaris has been fine and I have never found myself looking for more eye candy. Maybe it would be nice for those who are using Solaris as a workstation though. So what do the Solaris users out there think? Is this something that anyone is actually going to miss? Or is this more of a situation where Sun would like to have a slick interface too?

Re:Does Solaris Need Gnome? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2434575)

You are right. Most servers just sit on the floor and hum away. A sys admin would telnet/ssh into the box when needed.

A workstation however, may benefit from the addition. What's the ratio of SUN servers to workstations in the market? - I guess that might answer the question.

Solaris needs more gaping security holes (1)

1nt3lx (124618) | more than 12 years ago | (#2434602)

This is good. I think GNOME would only increase the number of weekly patches needed to keep a solaris system secure for more than 23 seconds.

Re:Does Solaris Need Gnome? (1)

ninewands (105734) | more than 12 years ago | (#2434697)

Well, in the computer lab I work in we have exactly 4 servers running Solaris and about 20 Workstations ... similarly, we have 3 or four servers running Tru64, but we have 3 dozen Alpha workstations for student use.

In a technical computing environment, *n*x is a very viable desktop system.

What ? (1)

akintayo (17599) | more than 12 years ago | (#2434593)

While a grad student, my university standardised on Solaris and RedHat Linux. so some students had CDE while others had the choice of KDE or GNOME. And some of us - me - spent 8+ hours my workstation.

So yes, gnome on solaris would be a good thing. CDE is a peace of crap thankfully Solaris also comes with Motif or OpenStep which s much more functional.

Re:What ? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2434706)

If you mean Openwin instead of Openstep (openwin is their
X server and Openstep is a window manager I believe),
Solaris 9 won't be shipped with Openwin at all.
People will still get the standard X libraries, but
if you wish to run a window manger that's less bloated
than cde or gnome, gotta download your own X server and compile it.

Solaris doesn't need to be slower, either (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2434699)

Gnome, like most Linux software is a bloated piece of spaghetti coded crap. It's good to hear that Gnome isn't going to contaminant Solaris. If no one believes me, try any version Gnome, and then try fvwm 1.24r. Oh god. Doesn't it feel soooo good?

No, no, no (2)

1010011010 (53039) | more than 12 years ago | (#2434530)

They have to ship upgrades to keep the cash coming in. They can't ship Gnome 2.0 because it's not ready.

No story here.

Re:No, no, no (2, Offtopic)

GoatPigSheep (525460) | more than 12 years ago | (#2434543)

Windows, since version 1.0, is still not ready, yet they ship a new version every couple of years.

Re:No, no, no (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2434611)

Solaris has *NO* license fees that I have ever seen. I am in a shop with over 24 Exxx class boxes and we pay $0.00 for OS licensing. Upgrades from Sol7 to Sol8 to Sol9 are free. You have to keep in mind that Sun primarily sells hardware, so the cost of their OS and software is hidden in the cost of $200K 'Enterprise' servers that would cost $50K in the WinTel world.

Re:No, no, no (1)

ninewands (105734) | more than 12 years ago | (#2434709)

I seriously doubt you are going to see anything in the WIntel world to compare with a high-end E10K or E15K ...

Sun, why not KDE, for the last time? (3, Interesting)

Lethyos (408045) | more than 12 years ago | (#2434536)

Why does Sun continue to ignore KDE as a viable alternative to GNOME. KDE is very mature and incredibly stable. I don't see why Sun doesn't just go forward with packaging it with Solaris. Do they stick with GNOME because it's built on a 100% free toolkit? What's the driving force? As far as I can see, KDE is a solution to many of the problems Sun's UI trials of GNOME came up with. It just doesn't make sense... for one thing, if they want easy of use, KDE is much nicer than GNOME, IMHO.

Re:Sun, why not KDE, for the last time? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2434549)

Is it available on Solaris already for them to bundle, or do you mean that they should port QT/KDE?

Qt+KDE Runs Fine On My Sun Box (2, Informative)

Lethyos (408045) | more than 12 years ago | (#2434585)

Qt compiles without a hitch and so does KDE. And if you want the official word, Trolltech's web site indicates [trolltech.com] that Qt will compile fine on Solaris, or pretty much any box running some form of X11. The KDE project has also made accomodations to run properly on Sun's OS. Sun doesn't have to do any work other than compilation and making packages. What's so hard about that? At the very least, they could make it an option.

Re:Sun, why not KDE, for the last time? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2434553)

QT ***IS*** 100%%%%%% FREEEEEEEEEEE DUUUUDDDDDDDDE!!!!!!!!!!

it's gpl bonafied yumminess

Re:Sun, why not KDE, for the last time? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2434601)

for non corporate use, duh

Re:Sun, why not KDE, for the last time? (3, Flamebait)

jfunk (33224) | more than 12 years ago | (#2434674)

for non corporate use, duh


Uh, no. Corporations can use GPLed code all they want, as long as they do not distribute binaries outside of their organisation without source. If they want to do that, however, they can buy a license to sell closed-source software.

The end result is that Qt encourages *more* open-source code, while GTK does not due to the LGPL.

Two things, though:

- Most software is written for internal use
- If you're going to sell apps, Qt is cheap as dirt as there are no individual licensing fees

It looks like Sun, contrary to the opinion of many Slashdotters, is *encouraging* closed-source by making it easy to do so.

Man, I'm really getting sick of these arguments...

Re:Sun, why not KDE, for the last time? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2434586)

At least GNOME doesn't have an annoying default startup sound yet. I don't need chicks gathering around me each time I launch KDE, inquiring about the unfamiliar Windows boot sound, thank you.

Re:Sun, why not KDE, for the last time? (1)

Teutates (16902) | more than 12 years ago | (#2434599)

Well, maybe they just don't want to. They have to be careful with the QT license. The GTK license is gpl'd...

Re:Sun, why not KDE, for the last time? (1)

gloth (180149) | more than 12 years ago | (#2434627)

They have to be careful with the QT license. The GTK license is gpl'd...

Are you completely ignorant?? Qt/X11 is released under the GPL! Think before you post, moron!!

Qt FAQ [trolltech.com]

Re:Sun, why not KDE, for the last time? (2, Insightful)

luge (4808) | more than 12 years ago | (#2434639)

What he should have said was lgpl'd. Under GTK, developers can write proprietary solaris desktop software without having to pay anything to trolltech. [Disclaimer: I work for ximian, but obviously this post is not written as a Ximian ad, nor does it represent Ximian.]

Re:Sun, why not KDE, for the last time? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2434652)

Try reading your own link next time, you stupid fuck. Qt Free Edition cannot be used to develop commercial/proprietary apps. Solaris is a proprietary OS that runs (mostly) commercial apps.

mod this troll down (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2434612)

what a big fucking troll post and you retards keep feeding the troll
go away troll

Re:Sun, why not KDE, for the last time? (2)

Ian Bicking (980) | more than 12 years ago | (#2434617)

I think geography is more important than people give it credit for, even with the Internet. Sun is an American company, Gnome is an American product. KDE is very Europoean.

There are lots of other reasons, of course. It isn't patriotism on Sun's part. But there's not a lot of very influential KDE people on this side of the Atlantic. And the influence goes both ways: Sun wants to have influence on how their chosen desktop is developed, and it'll be a lot easier for them to influence Gnome (through hiring, for instance).

Re:Sun, why not KDE, for the last time? (1)

Zog (12506) | more than 12 years ago | (#2434661)

I think it's a valid argument that KDE is better for ease-of-use for the average joe kind of person than Gnome (and speaking from experience, my mom liked KDE better).

Let it be known that Solaris is not designed around ease-of-use; it is still a fairly hardcore UNIX.

KARMA WHORE ALERT (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2434667)

lethyos is a karma whore...a skanky, dirt, greasy karma whore

Already been answered... (4, Informative)

corky6921 (240602) | more than 12 years ago | (#2434704)

Slashdot did a story on this a while back. Click here [slashdot.org] to see what the Sun GNOME group had to say about KDE vs. Gnome. Essentially, as a highly-moderated post put it, it came down to the fact that GNOME was C-based, and the Sun GNOME team was more familiar with C than with C++.

Gnome will never die (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2434537)

GNU always wants to re-invent the wheel. Linux is fine, but they still want to work on HURD, because Linux isn't made by GNU. KDE is fine, but they still want to work on Gnome, because KDE isn't made by GNU.

Disappointed (1)

angry_beaver (458910) | more than 12 years ago | (#2434545)

I for one will be very disappointed if Sun does not ship some version of Gnome with Solaris 9.
As a big fan of Solaris I've been looking forward to this release, but come on, CDE is a donkey. It's one of the worst interfaces I've ever used.

Sorry, just had to blow off some steam. My hatred for CDE runs deep :-)

Re:Disappointed (2)

IvyMike (178408) | more than 12 years ago | (#2434600)

Gnome is easy enough to download [sun.com] and install. You should do it, because CDE does in fact blow.

Re:Disappointed (5, Informative)

buysse (5473) | more than 12 years ago | (#2434621)

Please, don't use this version. It can suck a golf ball through a garden hose.

Try the Ximian packaging (www.ximian.com). It's quite a bit better. I still don't like everything about it, but it's a hell of a lot better than Sun's packaging. If you're going to evaluate Gnome, give it a fair shot.

Re:Disappointed (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2434715)

Clearly you've never used OLWM.

So serious, it bears repeating (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2434546)

.As you all know, Americans are already on alert for any possible bioterror attacks. Unfortunately there is a new, much more worrisome threat out there now.

If you receive an e-mail message from an unfamiliar person, DO NOT OPEN IT!!! It may contain ANTHRAX, which will be blown into your room via your computer's fan.

Experts at the CDC agree that this is probably the most effective and deadly way of spreading biological agents, and all Americans are urged to be cautious.

If you get a message that seems suspicious, IMMEDIATELY TURN OFF YOUR COMPUTER and call 911. The police will need to investigate whether the message contains anthrax or another biological or chemical weapon.

Subject headers that should be treated as suspicious include:

Make money fast
Free XXX hot pics
Virus alert!

or variations of the above. Also, anything from a user called 'listserv' at any domain should be considered dangerous.

Protect yourself! Call 911 if you encounter any of these e-mail messages, or any others that you don't trust!

COVER YOUR ANUS!! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2434677)

If your anus is exposed to anthrax, you will get an anal infection. This will also prevent cmdrtaco penetration.

I use Ximian GNOME on RH 7.1 (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2434548)

And the best part about it has to be Red Carpet. I don't like up2date because it requires registration with Red Hat's site. Does KDE have something similar? Or is there some other tool I can use to keep things patched if I switch away from GNOME? Hell, I've used apt on Debian systems, and something like that would be welcome!

Yeah, we got that... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2434646)

apt-get update; apt-get dist-upgrade;

It's really not that hard.

Protect yourself from the threat! (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2434560)

As you all know, Americans are already on alert for any possible bioterror attacks. Unfortunately there is a new, much more worrisome threat out there now.
.
If you receive an e-mail message from an unfamiliar person, DO NOT OPEN IT!!! It may contain ANTHRAX, which will be blown into your room via your computer's fan.

Experts at the CDC agree that this is probably the most effective and deadly way of spreading biological agents, and all Americans are urged to be cautious.

If you get a message that seems suspicious, IMMEDIATELY TURN OFF YOUR COMPUTER and call 911. The police will need to investigate whether the message contains anthrax or another biological or chemical weapon.

Subject headers that should be treated as suspicious include:

Make money fast
Free XXX hot pics
Virus alert!

or variations of the above. Also, anything from a user called 'listserv' at any domain should be considered dangerous.

Protect yourself! Call 911 if you encounter any of these e-mail messages, or any others that you don't trust!

Does anyone see a troll? (5, Informative)

jmauro (32523) | more than 12 years ago | (#2434567)

Read Linux gram's article. It says in a feature incomplete pre-beta demo of Solaris 9 there is no GNOME 2.0. There is no GNOME 2.0 ( just an alpha version) for shipping versions of redhat, let alone for pre-beta versons of Solaris. This article is just placed here to pull traffic to LinuxGram and doesn't really add anything.

Re:Does anyone see a troll? (1, Interesting)

Xiphoid Process (153566) | more than 12 years ago | (#2434604)

Not to mention this empty flamebait of an "article" here at Slashdot, anything to get the flames/add dollars rolling in, I guess. I don't understand why people in the slashdot "community" want to keep driving a wedge where one does not belong.

But don't be fooled, it's not the developers of K/G that are perpetuating this "rift", its bored 13 year old slashdot trolls. Right now Gnome and KDE are both achiving great things, they are both making linux a contender for the desktop, and most of all, both sets of developers are working together at an increasing rate (there is a scheduled interoperablity hack-a-thon at the Linux Showcase in early november.) KDE and GNOME are both here to stay, choice is good, deal with it.

The only troll is you... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2434637)

I know Nailer personally. He has no association with linuxgram.

Yes, lots of them, but no Penis Birds yet... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2434687)

When are we going to see the arrival of the Penis Birds on this forum? See, you're right... this "story" is PURE trolling on the part of Linuxgram. Therefore, it should attract all of slashdot's best and most prestigious trolls who will post ASCII art of the Penis Bird and the Goatse.cx ass with "Taco" in the rectum.

I find it Ironic... (1)

Karza (473438) | more than 12 years ago | (#2434574)

That this news is posted on the same day that this is announced, TrollTech releases QT 3.0 and that KDE 3.0 development is proceeding nicely. Just shows how some projects lose momentum and others do not. Very sad because I actually prefer the look and feel of Gnome to KDE.

Re:I find it Ironic... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2434716)

How is it ironic? GNOME folks do this all the time.
When KDE announces they're doing something good, the
GNOME people immediately respond they're thinking of
doing something. They're just taking a page from the
M$ book of marketing.

I know this is not so... (2, Interesting)

sasha328 (203458) | more than 12 years ago | (#2434577)

But could it be that GNOME is not ready because:
Gnome's leader Miguel de Icaza is currently having a flirtation with Microsoft's C# technologies and is producing a Linux version of the stuff under an open source initiative called the Mono Project. ?
Or could this be a hint from Sun, to ignore MS C# (and MONO)or GNOME will wither an die a slow agonising death? After all, doesn't Sun now offer an alternative to Passport, and so .NET?
Just a thought.

yes, GNOME _is_ dead (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2434587)

Trying not to be flamebait, but I think now is the time for GNOME hackers to gracefully start porting their programs to the KDE architecture. Is that really such a difficult move to make? Surely the whole Linux community would respect them all the more, because they will have consoldated the Linux desktop. There are GNOME fanatics, and they will try to mod this post down to -1 but perhaps this is not all that crazy a sentiment as it might once have been. Give it some thought, that's all I ask. Image where we could be if we stand united.

Re:yes, GNOME _is_ dead (1)

plastercast (234558) | more than 12 years ago | (#2434608)

"Give it some thought, that's all I ask. Image where we could be if we stand united."

Yes, united behind what you want....

Competition is good you stupid fuck. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2434616)

Having competition means that one side will always be trying to 1-up the other. That means that each side will have more rapid progress. It also means that end users will have a choice. Creating a monopoly in desktop environments is an antithesis of open source software. You stupid fuck.

Porting not an option (2, Insightful)

jmorris42 (1458) | more than 12 years ago | (#2434636)

KDE is a one trick pony. It is probably the best option for someone who loves C++ and probably grew up on VC++ on 'Doze.

GNOME has bindings for any language somebody liked enough to add support for. Got some C code you want to port to KDE? Delete it and start over, it would probably be faster. And what about the dozen or so 'lesser' languages? Even less likely.

And that is why GNOME will eventually win out. C++ is supported so any KDE app can potentially port but only a small subset of GNOME apps can migrate in the other direction.
Diversity usually beats a monoculture even though the monoculture often excels in a couple of areas.

You're a stupid fuck too. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2434642)

Having competition means that one side will always be trying to 1-up the other. That means that each side will have more rapid progress. It also means that end users will have a choice. Creating a monopoly in desktop environments is an antithesis of open source software. You stupid fuck.

PS: Qt has a ton of bindings for other languages. Try seaching freshmeat sometime. You stupid fuck.

Good. (-1, Troll)

Starship Trooper (523907) | more than 12 years ago | (#2434589)

I don't want to sound like a troll, but GNOME is at least five years away from any sort of maturity. I use Solaris at work on large SPARCstation arrays, because I need the extra performance of Sun's platforms. Complain all you want about CDE's age, poor design, etc. but it is damn fast and responsive. I tried running GNOME 1.4 on a couple of new machines we were integrating into the network, and it was unbearably sludgy. The combination of Nautilus and the bloated Sawfish window manager ate over 50% of the valuable CPU time, time that could be far better spent handling database queries and web requests. The interface was clumsy and difficult to navigate. I am glad that Sun came to its senses ; in my mind, they are doing what's best for their customers.

Now, GNOME does show potential, but as I said, it would very likely take several years of dedicated professional usability testing and performance tweaking to bring it up to enterprise quality. But the open-source community is diligent, and I look forward to hopefully giving GNOME another try in a couple years.

Re:Good. (2)

1010011010 (53039) | more than 12 years ago | (#2434623)

What kind of crappy processors do your Suns have, anyway? I don't see anything like the CPU usage you're complaining about.

Re:Good. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2434672)

All sun processors are crap. The USIII is barely able to pace a Pentium 4, and in most cases the P4 will smoke it. You thought the P4 was expensive - look up sun's per cpu cost.

Re:Good. (2)

Ian Bicking (980) | more than 12 years ago | (#2434649)

The combination of Nautilus and the bloated Sawfish window manager ate over 50% of the valuable CPU time, time that could be far better spent handling database queries and web requests
Unless Sawfish acts differently on Solaris than x86, any bloat you were seeing was Nautilus. Sawfish probably isn't the slimest window manager -- but it's really easy to use whatever wm you want with. Use Blackbox or something.

And, yes, Nautilus is bloated. But you don't need Nautilus, as you almost surely know how to use the command line faster anyway. So just don't run Nautilus.

While there's no doubt usability problems with Gnome, if you use it some you'll get along just fine. IMO, there's not much reason to be running either on a server.

Re:Good. (1)

lanclos (150352) | more than 12 years ago | (#2434664)

I tried running GNOME 1.4 on a couple of new machines we were integrating into the network, and it was unbearably sludgy. The combination of Nautilus and the bloated Sawfish window manager ate over 50% of the valuable CPU time, time that could be far better spent handling database queries and web requests.

Why are you running X-Windows, period, on your database and web server(s)? Division of labor, man. Save the UI (and its inherent overhead) for the end-user workstations. And yes, if the machine is truly an end-user workstation, you're allowed to spend a hideous amount of CPU + memory on the UI. Older versions of the MacOS spent 100% of the CPU on rendering the menu anytime you clicked on the menu bar. Nobody, except for the people that were trying to run background tasks (very few and far between in the Mac world), seemed to mind.

I suppose there's an alternative to my question-- why are you running core services on end-user workstations? That's asking for trouble in my book. Workstations are subject to the whims of users; servers should not be.

As for GNOME not shipping with Solaris 9-- I find that somewhat disappointing. Most of my Linux users (on their workstations) seem to prefer GNOME to KDE. It'd be nice to have the choice.

Re:Good. (1)

Hagabard (461385) | more than 12 years ago | (#2434688)

I'm also wondering what sparc system this fellow is using to report such high CPU usage. Current specs from dual-pIII 800's.
<BR>
<BR>1% CPU on one processor
<BR>4% on the other
<BR>
<BR>I have VMWare running Win2k Advanced Server in my other window with 512 megs RAM total in the box and Evolution Beta 0.16.99 and Galeon to type in slashdot. Gnome 1.4 w/Sawfish & Nautilus drawing the background (I like Verdana for my desktop fonts); lotsa applets in the panels & gkrellm.
<BR>
<BR>cat /proc/meminfo
<BR>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; total: used: free: shared: buffers: cached:
<BR>Mem: 526299136 521420800 4878336 0 4407296 255361024
<BR>Swap: 526409728 3760128 522649600
<BR>MemTotal: 513964 kB
<BR>MemFree: 4764 kB
<BR>MemShared: kB
<BR>Buffers: 4304 kB
<BR>Cached: 248456 kB
<BR>SwapCached: 920 kB
<BR>Active: 84472 kB
<BR>Inactive: 169208 kB
<BR>HighTotal: kB
<BR>HighFree: 0 kB
<BR>LowTotal: 513964 kB
<BR>LowFree: 4764 kB
<BR>SwapTotal: 514072 kB
<BR>
<BR>Looks okay so far. Let's check load average...
<BR>cat /proc/loadavg
<BR>0.08 0.05 0.01 1/83 5268
<BR>
<BR>Wow, looks good!
<BR>
<BR>Looks to me like the troll should go back under the bridge...
<BR>
<BR>
&nbsp;

Re:Good. (1)

raistlinne (13725) | more than 12 years ago | (#2434690)

If you think that sawfish is bloated, your just plain stupid. Sawfish is relatively minimalistic, and can be made to be extremely minimalistic if you're so inclined.

As for gnome 1.4, maybe something is horribly wrong on whatever compiler was used for your package, but I run it daily and I don't have constant CPU usuage. I've never seen anyone who did have constant CPU usuage from it. Well, ther eis the fact that you're running nautilus, but it begs the question: why? I don't think that anyone has represented nautilus as being close to ready for real use. And what were you using it for? there are plenty of graphical file managers, including gmc - the gnome standard one.

And if you find the gnome interface difficult to navigate, then either you're completely braindead or are just so used to some particular interface that you think that anything that isn't that interface is hard.

I'm sorry that I'm in a bad mood and as a result my comments are sounding harsher than I mean them to, but basically your post is either a fairly well devised troll or a bunch of stupid drivel. In the off chance that it's the later (this being /. does give about a 60/40 chance that any given post is a troll), try doing a little exploration and thinking. And remember that if a tool requires you to learn a little bit about it in order to use it effectively, it isn't the end of the world.

Don't worry , Be happy. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2434598)

So,it's not their now. But it will be. Come on, how often does a good open source project get started and not get finshed by SOMEBODY.

Have you seen the download page for Sol 9? (1)

wibwib (443857) | more than 12 years ago | (#2434613)

I don't think my work would like me downloading the 700 MB worth of image files.

Re:Have you seen the download page for Sol 9? (2)

Spackler (223562) | more than 12 years ago | (#2434676)

I don't think my work would like me downloading the 700 MB worth of image files.

You aren't kidding! Why can't they learn from those nice svelte linux iso download. What's Mandrake, 30 or 40 meg?

Oh, 1800 for the whole dist? I'll just take the 600 meg install CD, thanks.

Scientists predict that one day... (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2434631)

...the Sun [sun.com] will fail.

That's the problem with open source software... (1)

1nt3lx (124618) | more than 12 years ago | (#2434645)

...the mantra is release early release often but it never truly reaches gold because its never finished.

Do we Really Need Gnome? (2, Insightful)

linuxbert (78156) | more than 12 years ago | (#2434650)

Gnome is pretty and nice. i use it, i like it. i also have a sun box and run cde. Solaris runs servers. do we need all that prettyness and niceness eating cpu cycles on a webserver?

call me a troll, but isint this one of the bigest complaints about win2k, it has a bloated gui that eats resources better left for runing services on a server.

cde isnt pretty, but it does the job, and doesnt eat alot of resourses.

yes i know sun is offering a choice of desktops, but gnomes lack of inclusion really doesnt seem like a big loss to me..

Major blow to unix (1)

Mdog (25508) | more than 12 years ago | (#2434660)

I was really sorry to read this. Sun is a major force in terms of bringing unix to the masses, and I had looked forward to them using a UI that was something pleasurable instead of horrifying. It's a huge deal for all of us IMHO.

5 substantial reasons why GNOME is obsolete (3, Informative)

AirLace (86148) | more than 12 years ago | (#2434669)

  1. Technology: GNOME is based on the GTK+ library, which was fine for its day, but is now decidedly outdated. The basic design, themability and functionality simply haven't changed in years. It doesn't offer exciting components like KParts, KDE's analog to COM. The closes thing to that will be Bonobo, but its development is far behind even GNOME 2's release schedule and won't make it in until at least 2003.
  2. Browsers: The GNOME project depends on Mozilla for its browser component. While Galeon makes the experience quite pleasant, page loads are still slow. In contrast, Konqueror is under heavy development, supporting both Mozilla and KHTML as its viewer component, the latter of which is its greatest strength. The W3C recommends [w3.org] Konqueror for having the most complete CSS2 implementation in the world.
  3. Lack of modern features: XFree86 in itself is not that fast in implementing modern OS facilities. But when the XFree86 team did finally implement XRender (some 10 years after amigaOS could do antialiasing), they did it right. Trolltech team, thanks to the component based design of Qt, were able to implement text antialiasing and alpha channels with just a couple of screens of code. The same implmenentation for GTK+/GNOME, in contrast, is only possible as either a hack (render text large and sale it down) or potentially by major redesign, which will be done with GTK+ 2.
  4. Looks. Although KDE had formerly been the ugly duckling, it really has leapt ahead of GNOME. One need look no further than http://www.kde-look.org/ to see how powerful and customisable KStyle is. As a developer once said, GNOME has themes, but KDE has style! What he meant in fact is that GNOME themes are generally pixmap designs, and when they are done programatically, there is limited scope for customisation.
  5. A previous post aptly pointed out that GNU always wants to re-invent the wheel. Linux is fine, but they still want to work on HURD, because Linux isn't made by GNU. KDE is fine, but they still want to work on Gnome, because KDE isn't made by GNU.

Bonobo is very ready (2, Interesting)

luge (4808) | more than 12 years ago | (#2434705)

FWIW, I have no idea where your information on Bonobo is from, but Evolution and a number of other current GNOME projects use Bonobo extensively. If Bonobo was as unready as you claimed Evo wouldn't run at all :) [Disclaimer: Ximian employee, not the views of my employer, yada, yada.]

Mod this up (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2434717)

Wish we could see more proplerly reasoned posts like this. Informative, and a pleasure to read.

Mod this post down, it's informative. (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2434721)

Moderators must take action to ensure that nobody sees the valuable, substantiated, and useful information presented in this post. This story has been declared a pure trolling forum and intelligent posts like this will not be tolerated. Slashdot, as a whole, is a community of trolls, not intellects. Being a greed driven, censorship laden fiasco of foolishness, we can't have intelligent conversation taking place. Those who try to turn it otherwise must be punished by the subtraction of karma points. Remember moderators, you are solders in the Slashdot army to squash intelligent and alternative viewpoints! Do your duty! Mod AirLace down!

Re:5 substantial reasons why GNOME is obsolete (1)

TerryMathews (57165) | more than 12 years ago | (#2434722)

A previous post aptly pointed out that GNU always wants to re-invent the wheel. Linux is fine, but they still want to work on HURD, because Linux isn't made by GNU. KDE is fine, but they still want to work on Gnome, because KDE isn't made by GNU.
You know, this is actually the purpose of GNU, and has always been. This is actually the true spirit of the Free Software Movement, creating the free equivelant of tools that we use everyday. GIMP instead of Photoshop, AbiWord instead of Microsoft Word. Mozilla instead of Internet Explorer. Linux instead of SysV UNIX. XFree86 instead of one of the commercial variants. The list goes on and on and on...

The Death Blow For Gnome? (-1, Troll)

UltraBot2K1 (320256) | more than 12 years ago | (#2434671)

After Redhat [redhat.com]'s recent announcement that Gnome won't be shipping with Redhot 7.2 due to security concerns, the last thing Gnome needs is to be dumped by another major OS. With the damage done to Gnome's image by the recently discovered remote exploits [securityfocus.com] and concerns about possible back doors, what Gnome needs is a ground up re-write and a full audit of the code base to restore confidence. On top of that, Gnome has a long ways to go to catch up with KDE in terms of functionality. All in all, I wish Miguel the best; but I won't be using Gnome until I can be sure it won't give some kiddie an easy r00t on my box.

Troll alert (1, Offtopic)

luge (4808) | more than 12 years ago | (#2434693)

Um, what? RH? Not shipping with GNOME? What crack are you on? Every review of 7.2 I've read so far mentions how nice and polished their GNOME interface is. If someone could mod this troll into oblivion before he spreads more FUD it would be appreciated.

Very Sloppy (2, Informative)

cnladd (97597) | more than 12 years ago | (#2434698)

Very sloppy, Slashdot. You should know better. There's a reason why I don't go to a Linux news site for news on Solaris. The claim that Gnome 2.0 doesn't appear in the Solaris 9 downloadable beta, and then extending that claim to encompass the final version of Solaris 9 is completely ridiculous. Of course, they temper that claim with by saying that Sun labels the beta as "feature complete", which is true. However, I think I'd be hard-pressed to find a final copy of Gnome. The last I saw was a news snippet on Gnome.org, dated October 11, claiming that Gnome 2.0 was "coming up fast".

Finally, for those of you who have closely followed Sun's plans for Gnome, Sun has never once claimed that Gnome 2.0 would be a part of Solaris 9. Sun's Gnome site [sun.com] provides Gnome 1.4 as a "reference implementation", and says that Gnome will be the foundation of its future desktop. According to the site, "The next major release, GNOME 2.x, is expected in mid-2002".

The real problem with Solaris 9 (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2434700)

The real problem with Solaris 9 is not that it
doesn't have the crappy GNOME but that it won't
have OpenWin, which many of us Sun lovers use
everyday. It used to be the only X server that
was halfway decent and not a bunch of crappy bloat
ware like CDE.

it sucks anyway (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2434719)

I tried to use gnome 1.4 .... what a memory hog and kinda sucky anyway. CDE was much more functional and stable.
Load More Comments
Slashdot Account

Need an Account?

Forgot your password?

Don't worry, we never post anything without your permission.

Submission Text Formatting Tips

We support a small subset of HTML, namely these tags:

  • b
  • i
  • p
  • br
  • a
  • ol
  • ul
  • li
  • dl
  • dt
  • dd
  • em
  • strong
  • tt
  • blockquote
  • div
  • quote
  • ecode

"ecode" can be used for code snippets, for example:

<ecode>    while(1) { do_something(); } </ecode>
Sign up for Slashdot Newsletters
Create a Slashdot Account

Loading...