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TiVo Gets In Deeper With Sony

timothy posted more than 12 years ago | from the digitizing-your-youthful-television-experience dept.

Television 187

mickeyreznor writes: "TiVo and Sony have entered into a seven year deal. The deal will result in TiVo's software being incorporated into Sony's electronic products. This deal might be good for TiVo, who've seemed to have been struggling financially to date. I'll just have to see how much more sony products cost with TiVo included." This is good news for anyone with a TiVo.

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TiVo (1, Interesting)

crumbz (41803) | more than 12 years ago | (#2447899)

I don't have TiVo but I would like to get one. Any recommendations on buy now or after x-mas? When are the new ones coming out? Is Sony manufacturing them?

Re:TiVo (2, Interesting)

jsimon12 (207119) | more than 12 years ago | (#2447983)

See if you can find a 20 hour TiVo, I think certain Walmarts still had them and they were only like 149 bucks (maybe less), then throw a 100 gig HD in there and rock on with your like 100 hours TiVo.

Re:TiVo (0)

crumbz (41803) | more than 12 years ago | (#2448205)

Do I have to format the drive or will the TiVo BIOS do it for me?

www.tivofaq.com/hack has all the info you need (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2448354)

Go there and download instructions and "Dylan's boot disk" (now available as an ISO CD image) which includes the "BlessTiVo" program which basically partitions and formats the drive for you. It takes about 2 seconds to run. Really really easy. There are also links on where to buy a mounting bracket for the second drive. I suggest Maxtor 5400RPM 60GB or 80GB drives. www.newegg.com has great prices.

fp, bitchez (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2447901)

propz 2 homiez

goat? (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2447906)

Hello from Robert Frost

wheeeeeeeee (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2447912)

not the first post!

New product idea.. (4, Funny)

supabeast! (84658) | more than 12 years ago | (#2447917)

Coming in 2005... The Playstation ThreeVo!

Re:New product idea.. (5, Insightful)

_Mustang (96904) | more than 12 years ago | (#2447955)

And why would you say that as if it were a joke? All we've been hearing lately here on /. is news about the "next big thing" being the entertainment center *doohicky* that allows gaming, television and full net access.Dangit if that isn't exactly where Sony is headed and that much sooner by adding TiVo capabilities to their next PS - the one with the onboard storage.

Re:New product idea.. (2, Informative)

drinkypoo (153816) | more than 12 years ago | (#2448032)

The best part is that Sony has a DOCSIS-compliant cable modem based on Cisco's reference design, and tested/debugged by Cisco engineers; Integrate TiVo, PS3, the CM, and VoIP, and you have one solution that runs your whole entertainment center.

Re:New product idea.. (2)

kilgore_47 (262118) | more than 12 years ago | (#2448439)

Great, then corporate spyware can tell not only what sites we visit, but also what video games we play! And what TV shows we watch! And what ads get muted the most/least! And what DVD's we watch!

An internet-enabled TiVo/PlayStation would open new doors for market research and customer tracking...

They should almost just put a mic+camera on the thing so it can tell what else is going on in your house!

Re:New product idea.. (1)

Kailden (129168) | more than 12 years ago | (#2448188)

Imagine that. A device that allows "gaming, television and full net access" it's like feature creep ppl, if you want that then get a decent video in/video out video card and a computer. TiVO would seem to me to target people who are less technically savvy and prolly just want each machine to do its piece....like the TiVO is an advanced VCR and thats all it needs to be for them. If they want gaming then they go buy the X-box or whatever. Just seems like a combined one would make less revenue...

But you are right I guess, sooner or later someone will combine it. I can't wait to get my combined digital refrigirator/blender/organizer web enabled sink.

Re:New product idea.. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2448366)

But why should anyone have to pay thousands for a PC with all of the necessary hardware when they can buy an entertainment console that does it all for only $200-$300?

Re:New product idea.. (1)

Kailden (129168) | more than 12 years ago | (#2448553)

I understand that, but it seems like everyone wants to add stuff....I mean, next it will network with other devices or your pc (with out hacking it) and next it will play dvds etc etc until basically it is a pc again. Its kinda like when you start with a calculator and end up with a organizer,printer,programming,electric-circuit testor. Sometimes it seems better to keep it simple...or at least a *model* that is simple cause mebbe I don't want to play games on my TiVO cause I already sprung for the Playstation or PC.

Besides, it seems to me that when products start concentrating on more than thier original use, they get sloppy or make design comprimises. TiVO might have nice menus for selecting tv channels and stuff but maybe it gets all complicated with the games added in cause now you can have an option to videotape your games or something. I just think sometimes its better to keep it simple.

For instance, if you want a fast sports car, you don't get the minivan space, or the minivan suspension for a reason.

Re:New product idea.. (2, Insightful)

timbck2 (233967) | more than 12 years ago | (#2448465)

No, no, no, no, no. Only someone who's never seen TiVo would think of it this way. Trying to get all these capabilities out of a PC today with the ease of use of TiVo would be impossible. I'm not a gamer, so I can't say anything about that.

Re:New product idea.. (2, Insightful)

JofCoRe (315438) | more than 12 years ago | (#2448552)

And would that mean that I couldn't play a game while I recorded something on my PSThreeVo?

If they do end up combining something like this, I hope they take into account that people may want to be able to multitask it. Otherwise, it wouldn't be particularly useful... for me at least.....

Re:New product idea.. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2448145)

That post is off-topic and should be mod-ed appropriately.

FP (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2447920)

How is this good news for tivo owners?

Re:FP (4, Insightful)

unitron (5733) | more than 12 years ago | (#2447990)

Just what I was wondering. Sony is heavily involved in the content providing business as well as the hardware to play the content on business. Sounds like it'll just increase the likelyhood of copy controls being introduced in future versions of the Tivo software and hardware. I want something that's tied to no one's desires but mine. (Able to work with lots of different program listing services, lots of different file formats, easy to transfer files to and from other devices, easy to write your own control software for, easy to expand storage, etc.)

Re:FP (5, Insightful)

Tim Macinta (1052) | more than 12 years ago | (#2448019)

How is this good news for tivo owners?

For one thing, it means that TiVo is likely to stay in business for quite sometime. A TiVo recorder would be lot less useful if there no company providing the update service that TiVo provides. The updates give you schedule listings and software upgrades. Without the update service, a TiVo recorder is only slightly more useful than a VCR - with the update service a TiVo recorder becomes indespensible to most people who have used one.

Re:FP (1)

queequeg1 (180099) | more than 12 years ago | (#2448117)

Unless I am mistaken, with the new firmware that newer Tivo owners are required to have, the device will be substantially less useful than a VCR if the company disappears since owners cannot program the time into the unit themselves (which makes programming the unit to start recording in your absence impossible).

Eighth post (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2447924)

Please try to keep posts on topic. Try to reply to other people comments instead of starting new threads. Read other people's messages before posting your own to avoid simply duplicating what has already been said. Use a clear subject that describes what your message is about. Offtopic, Inflammatory, Inappropriate, Illegal, or Offensive comments might be moderated. (You can read everything, even moderated posts, by adjusting your threshold on the User Preferences Page)

Re:Eighth post (0, Offtopic)

jsin (141879) | more than 12 years ago | (#2447940)

Thank you, o lord of the moderators!

I think I've seen more zero-point posts in this thread than ever before....

...and I'm sure I won't be the last ; )

TiVo vs UltimateTV (2, Interesting)

jaga~ (175770) | more than 12 years ago | (#2447927)

Besides most of you hating M$, how do most people view the two competitors.. I know TiVo is more expandable with the HD space and all, but is it better than Ultimate TV? Anyone had/used both and can give us an honest opinion?

Re:TiVo vs UltimateTV (3, Interesting)

Gaijin42 (317411) | more than 12 years ago | (#2447969)

I have used both. Ultimate TV has the nice feature of being able to record two shows at once. And I like the grid style tv guide better. But Tivo is GREAT with suggestions, and the season pass manager is the best of all of the PVRs out there. Letting you set up conflicting season passes makes life WAY easier to get the shows you always want, and fill in the gaps with other shows.

If tivo added a second tuner, it would rock my world.

Re:TiVo vs UltimateTV (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2448026)

Just as a side note...all DirectTivo units are built with a second tuner. TiVo released the software upgrade to turn on the second tuner late last month...so you can now record two shows at once if you like...

Re:TiVo vs UltimateTV (1)

Gaijin42 (317411) | more than 12 years ago | (#2448077)

Only for sattelite peeps tho (Which is true for ultimate TV as well.)

Someone needs to make a dual cable tuner PVR.

Re:TiVo vs UltimateTV (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2448284)

It is two expensive to make a cable one with dual tuners. It would require the repition of the all the mpeg hardware on the board. Satelite systems can have dual tuners because the are recording the digital satelite signal and not using the mpeg hardware during recording (only play back).

Re:TiVo vs UltimateTV (1)

dpotter (95081) | more than 12 years ago | (#2448031)

The DirecTivo units include two tuners, allowing the user to simultaneously record two shows while watching a third off the hard drive.


Re:TiVo vs UltimateTV (4, Informative)

Quikah (14419) | more than 12 years ago | (#2448079)

The DirectTiVo does have dual tuners now. They have been sending the upgrade out for the past month or so. The standalone Tivo's will never have dual tuner capability unless they release a new unit with two encoders. The standalone are not really comparable to UltimateTV as they server a different market.

Re:TiVo vs UltimateTV (2, Informative)

rvaniwaa (136502) | more than 12 years ago | (#2448245)

The latest TiVos do have two tuners and can also record two shows at once, just like UltimateTV

Re:TiVo vs UltimateTV (1)

skybird0 (176892) | more than 12 years ago | (#2448337)

TiVo can't use the grid unless they license the patent from Starsight. I understand that ReplayTV and UltimateTV did that but TiVo did not. Maybe TiVo will for the next version. One could hope.

Re:TiVo vs UltimateTV (2)

brunes69 (86786) | more than 12 years ago | (#2447974)

From the commercials I have seen it seems UltimateTV comes with 2 tuners, so you can record 2 shows at once. I don't think normal TiVo's have this, although I think the DirecTivo's do.

Re:TiVo vs UltimateTV (1)

FortKnox (169099) | more than 12 years ago | (#2448010)

You need a satellite hookup for the UltimateTV "record-two-shows-in-one", which is why only DirecTiVo is the only TiVo to do it. So its not really an "up" for UltimateTV.

Re:TiVo vs UltimateTV (2)

boinger (4618) | more than 12 years ago | (#2448027)

You are correct - I got my parents a DirecTiVo and not only does it have two tuners (one live/record, one background record), DirecTV doesn't charge you for using the second one!

Re:TiVo vs UltimateTV (1, Interesting)

sdo1 (213835) | more than 12 years ago | (#2448514)

Not only that, but the dual tuner DirecTV / TiVo (I hate calling it DirecTiVo... I don't know why) can handle 3 streams at once. 2 recording and one playback simultaneously. I have a Sony SAT-T60 and it handles this stuff with no problem.

I can't imagine being a TV watcher without TiVo (or at least something similar). I watch less TV now, watch what I want to watch, and always have a library of programs that interest me ready to go at any time. There's always an episode of Battlebots, Junkyard Wars, Simpsons, or Space Ghost just sitting there waiting to be watched.


One enormous difference... (2)

UserChrisCanter4 (464072) | more than 12 years ago | (#2448063)

Ultimate TV only supports satellite. It doesn't have MPEG-2 encoding capability, it simply stores the MPEG-2 stream from the satellite on the Hard Disk. This is exactly what kept me away from Ultimate TV; I use Digital Cable service because of the many televisions in my house (DirecTV charges $5 extra per TV, my cable company doesn't). Additionally, I am tied to my cable company because I use a cable modem, which I am very happy with.

So, Ultimate TV is positively worthless to me. Also, the capability to record two shows at once requires two drops from the satellite, something which a lot of people didn't think to pull behind their televisions.

The only other feature Ultimate TV boasts is a WebTV add-on, something which no serious /.er should ever consider.

Re:One enormous difference... (1)

barjam (37372) | more than 12 years ago | (#2448125)

I used to have a normal Tivo hooked to digital cable. This is not even in the same ballbark in value as a DirectTivo (and I assume the UltimateTv).

For one thing at least in the two areas I have had digital cable (Austin Tx, Kansas City) the quality isn't even comparable. DirectTv is probably 5 times clearer. The quality of local channels is even higher... go figure.

Just because you have a cable modem doesn't mean you are tied to cable service.

Re:One enormous difference... (1)

UserChrisCanter4 (464072) | more than 12 years ago | (#2448216)

DirecTV is marginally better in quality than my digital cable. Several catches:
1) I have to have basic cable (~$10) in order to have a Cable Modem. So, I'm already devoting $10 plus the $40 for my cable modem. Once I calculate adding a DirecTV box to even 3 televisions, it becomes prohibitively expensive.
2) Until very recently, DirecTV didn't offer Fox Sports World. I love watching soccer.
3) DirecTV still doesn't provide WB or UPN in my area (I don't think they provide them anywhere). No WB means I can't watch my Friends and Seinfeld reruns in the evenings. No UPN means no Buffy (I'm not into Star Trek, but that's a motivating factor for quite a few people). I'm far enough out in the burbs that off-air reception is horrible.

Opinion from some who's had/used both (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2448545)

Can be found here [avsforum.com].

Upgrade (5, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2447930)

On another note, Tivo just released a software update for its stand alone recievers. It allows users to store more content on their boxes by using VBR. Cool stuff.

Re:Upgrade (1)

glowingspleen (180814) | more than 12 years ago | (#2448159)

Is that what the big suprise in 2.5 is? Wow!

Does anyone have a feature list for 2.5 yet? It hasn't pushed down to my SA yet! Thanks!

(Oh, and yay for anything that keeps TiVo alive! Thanks Sony!)

Re:Upgrade (2)

Tim Macinta (1052) | more than 12 years ago | (#2448270)

On another note, Tivo just released a software update for its stand alone recievers. It allows users to store more content on their boxes by using VBR. Cool stuff.

Could somebody out there who has already received this upgrade post a comment on how well this works? I found the following at TiVo's website, but it was very scant on details:

I have one of the original 14 hour TiVos, so anything that will give me more recording time will be greatly appreciated. I wouldn't mind buying a new box if they ever end up making an ethernet version, but until then I will continue contemplating adding a second hard drive and I will hope that the VBR recording will substantially help once I get the update.

Uh oh. (2, Interesting)

jason99si (131298) | more than 12 years ago | (#2447935)

How long until Sony puts restrictions on recording Sony Studio's movies bought using pay-per-view? or on HBO and the like?

While I think the competition will be good (Microsoft is competing in this realm, etc.) I'm not sure I'm going to like the influence Sony will have from a copyright perspective.

Sony (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2447948)

These guys brought us Memory Stick, Music Clip/ATRAC, and other user-hostile copy-protected crapola. Why is this good?!

sony profiting off of linux (1)

Vardamir (266484) | more than 12 years ago | (#2447954)

it is good to see sony profiting off of linux, just like hp and ibm - indeed, linux is definitely a hardware company's friend more than a company who purely concentrates on software - though there are exceptions, like redhat. it would be nice to see sony contribute a little more to linux like ibm and hp instead of just profiting off of it

Hackability? (1)

jsimon12 (207119) | more than 12 years ago | (#2447971)

Wonder how this will affect the hack factor of Tivo products. Tivo didn't make it easy, but they always left the door open, and they never sued (far as I know) over any hacks or consumer upgrades like others have. I wonder how Sony will take this though? Will we start to see DMCA lawsuits if I hack my Trinitron/Tivo?

Re:Hackability? (2)

Lxy (80823) | more than 12 years ago | (#2448223)

Tivo was (hopefully still is) very supportive of the hacking being done to their STBs. They were highly amused that people were ripping them apart and adding bigger hard drives. Hopefully Sony will continue to honor the stance that Tivo had taken.

You know, the tivo would be a nice product (-1, Flamebait)

Shoeboy (16224) | more than 12 years ago | (#2447975)

If they'd only used FreeBSD instead of Lunix. FreeBSD has a less restrictive license, superior design, a more stable userland API and better performance.

I don't understand this sick obsession with Lunix, can someone explain it to me?

Re:You know, the tivo would be a nice product (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2448018)

I don't understand this sick obsession with Lunix, can someone explain it to me?

That's because FreeBSD sucks ass and is only used by complete neurotic losers with a superiority complex.

(or maybe it's because end users don't give a shit what OS their set-top box uses - except anal retentive ones)

Re:You know, the tivo would be a nice product (1)

uberdood (154108) | more than 12 years ago | (#2448060)

oh where are my moderator points when i need them to mark a troll.

pray tell, how would freebsd improve TiVo? the TiVo UI is proprietary and rather independent of the underlying OS. in fact, the user is completely shielded from the OS.

what's wrong, geekizoid still in the shitter? (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2448070)

so fucking sad.

maybe the turds at inadequacy will let you come play, if you be nice. and pretend to be someone else. and swallow a giant cock.

Where the hell ya been Shoe? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2448163)

Nice comments you got there. Still, Mimbleton [slashdot.org] has over 700. Can you top that?

This is nothing really new (1)

DJFelix (468187) | more than 12 years ago | (#2447987)

Sony has had products with TiVO inside for quite some time. You can purchase a Sony DirecTV reciever with TiVO inside. I've thought about purchasing one ever since I read the Linux Journal article about the TiVO.

Ah, slashdotters. They're so funny... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2448278)

So damned sure everything they need to know is already in their heads ("This not news! Me been following market! Me been to Best Buy! Me seen Sony Tivo, already on shelf! Me knowledgeable slashdotter!"). Did you not even read the linked article, which specifically says why this is different from the current deal?

"Today, our agreement with Sony, as it is with other manufacturers, centers around their ability to manufacture boxes that are really TiVo-designed," he said. "This agreement gives Sony access to a deeper and greater range of technology assets for the purpose of taking that technology and developing a range of greater designs that are Sony specific."

As was explained in the conference call under the current deal Sony simply produces hardware based on Tivos reference designs. The new contract lets Sony license Tivo software for devices of Sony design. This was explained in more detail then the conference call but like most slashdotters you're too busy posting your opinion to make sure it's based on accurate information.

Didn't this place used to not be full of posers, hacker-wannabes, and self-important pulpit pounders who think they can substitute dogma for data?

Re:Ah, slashdotters. They're so funny... (1)

DJFelix (468187) | more than 12 years ago | (#2448468)

Yes it was. Now it is full of self-righteous, holier-than-thou, anonymous assholes who are quick to point out any little thing that they think has been missed, and make a political speach.

I was simply pointing out the fact that most of the other posters missed. Sony has been using TiVo technology for a while now. The posts I read appeared to be from readers who did not know that Sony has been working with TiVo in the past.

TiVo and software... (2)

AtariDatacenter (31657) | more than 12 years ago | (#2447998)

Looks like they really want to concentrate on the software/service side of the house. Interesting, but doesn't it make them even more of a Microsoft target?

I'm hoping this agreement will let manufacturers do things (recording to digital media) that TiVo wouldn't do for itself otherwise.

Re:TiVo and software... (1)

xneilj (15004) | more than 12 years ago | (#2448126)

TiVo always have been focussed on the software side since day one! They've never sold any hardware made by themselves which is why you buy Sony, Philips, or (in the UK) Thomson branded recorders with the TiVo service.

The difference was that the hardware manufacturers mostly took TiVo's reference design and implemented it (much like video card manufacturers do with nVidia's graphics chips). This new deal will mean that Sony will have free reign to implement the TiVo service in any device they like.

It had to happen... (4, Insightful)

saridder (103936) | more than 12 years ago | (#2447999)

Sony had to do this because you know MS will merge the X-box and ReplayTV in the next few years. I'm suprised TiVo wasn't bought out completely by Sony. At what point does the web and/or and ethernet card get built in also, creating the ultimate All-in Wonder.

I want a PVR (2)

Pope (17780) | more than 12 years ago | (#2448000)

Since the TiVo service isn't available in Canada AFAIK, I'd just like a nice standalone PVR. I don't want it to "learn" what I like, I don't want to archive everything away so I can share it on LimeWire, I don't want frills. All I want is a digital VCR replacement for time-shifting programs.

When I want to archive things (like movies or The Family Guy) I'll stick to VHS because I can share those with friends, and there's that whole backwards compatibility thing.

Re:I want a PVR (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2448028)

You can turn off TiVo's "Learn" ability.
You can use it without service (just tell it when to record).
And you can set it up with your VCR to "archive" your stuff.

Sounds like you need to go out and buy yourself a TiVo.

Posting Anonymously to not seem like a TiVo marketing troll.

Re:I want a PVR (2)

Pulzar (81031) | more than 12 years ago | (#2448109)

Ok, but that doesn't work with the time-shifting programs -- i.e. programs that are not always at the same time.

As far as I understand TiVo service, you can tell to tape "Family Guy", and it'll tape it whenever it is. Right?

TiVo works standalone (3)

wiredog (43288) | more than 12 years ago | (#2448033)

It just becomes a fairly standard digital "vcr" if you don't have the service.

Re:TiVo works standalone (4, Informative)

WNight (23683) | more than 12 years ago | (#2448546)

Well, it used to. Now it doesn't. If you buy a new Tivo withou the service is bitches and complains all the time that you need to buy the service, it won't record for more than thirty minutes, and won't label shows (or let you manually.

Old Tivos work fine, unless you plug them into the phone, at which point they download the upgrade and start functioning as the new Tivos. But, you have to plug them in because the time drifts fairly badly if you don't.

Tivo's rep called users of the Tivo who didn't subscribe "freeloaders" and said that they *might* fix this "accidental" upgrade in v2.5.

The old hardware used to sell with a notice saying it would work without the service but would be so much more with it. Now they say it won't work without (and boy are they right). The only problem is that they broke old machines without telling the owners and are now blaming the owners for expecting the device to function as it claimed on the box.

Don't buy a Tivo, they're essentially crooks because they defraud their customers like this.

I'd buy one (2)

SCHecklerX (229973) | more than 12 years ago | (#2448200)

If it had a web interface for scheduling record times, and ethernet. Oh, and a phone jack, so I could plug it into the wall for nothing but video overlay of callerid info..no dialup crap. I just want the callerid displayed on my tv without having to buy more expensive crap or hack something together myself. An email checker video overlay would be pretty spiffy too.

sounds suspicous (0)

khofTim (529214) | more than 12 years ago | (#2448005)

I dont know...

The idea of paying a monthly fee for a piece of electronics simply sounds suspicous to me. Although they allow you to pay the device in whole, It just sounds as if there were evil forces at work inside that company, and i dont like that thought.


Re:sounds suspicous (1)

uberdood (154108) | more than 12 years ago | (#2448091)

The idea of paying a monthly fee for a piece of electronics simply sounds suspicous to me.

so, if i read you correctly, you have no internet, eletricity, telephone, nor cable/satellite connection to your house.

Re:sounds suspicous (1)

khofTim (529214) | more than 12 years ago | (#2448268)

Sorry, what i wanted to say was: Why not simply get a Digital Video Recorder? Doesn't that allow me to record whatever i want and watch it later, too?

- Tim

How is this good? (0, Troll)

SilentChris (452960) | more than 12 years ago | (#2448011)

"This is good news for anyone with a TiVo."

Ugh, not for me. Sony is a multi-billion dollar conglomerate, much like Microsoft (which most people seem to forget around here). Yes, they've made us 18-24 year-olds happy with the Playstation, marketted directly to our demographic. But the honest truth is that they are just as coniving, cunning, and ruthless as any other conglomerate. I'll pass.

Re:How is this good? (1)

lumpenprole (114780) | more than 12 years ago | (#2448069)

I'll have you know I'm 32, and rather attatched to my playstation. (And my blue blankie, but it's not related).

This is hardly a good thing (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2448023)

Why is it you slashdotters are so quick to bash M$, when in fact $ony is a much more offensive monopoly, releasing crappy products in every category, all over the world, and buying whole industries with impunity?

Re:This is hardly a good thing (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2448150)

Name one business Sony is in where they have a ~90% marketshare, like Microsoft has in operating systems, business applications, and web browsers.

Yeah, thought so.

Re:This is hardly a good thing (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2448204)

Uhm, yeah, and Playstation/PS2 is just a bit player in the home video game industry? Thought so.

Re:This is hardly a good thing (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2448238)

Um, what part of 90% did you conveniently forget to refute?

Re:This is hardly a good thing (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2448396)

As of last month, Playstation had 70% market share. That's not counting PS2. And with Dreamcast's demise, you can add another 12% to that. So, uhm, do you really think that last 8% makes a shit of difference, especially considering the original post said ~90%? (How convenient that there's no +/- attached to that ~90%.)

Good move (3, Interesting)

isa-kuruption (317695) | more than 12 years ago | (#2448024)

If we want TiVo to stay around (which means becoming profitable (again?)), then they are going to have to make such strategic partnerships. Sony is a good choice for TiVo, and Sony obviously sees the possibilities TiVo has to offer.

As for price increases in Sony products, I do not think you'll see much (if any). The kicker is the subscription fee. But the point of this kind of relationship is that Sony has the market base for TV's, DVD's, etc... and once people have these devices in their home which are "TiVo ready" then it makes it realy easy for them to dial the 800 number to subscribe. Buying an extra "box" (at $300 a pop) is not worth it to some people. Having the "extra features" in a box they are already buying is a good thing!

but I don't see the subscription as useful (2)

hawk (1151) | more than 12 years ago | (#2448320)

I understand that it's their business model. Yes some folks like the season pass. I just don't see it as useful, or as a step up from the regular satellite/cable listings (ok, the tvguide provicded listings on analog cable are garbage).
I'd be perfectly happy to continue clicking on the programs I want from my regular listing, and to have the ability to set it to recortd the same time & station each week. I suppose this deal is a step in that direction, but unless sony makes boxes that let you do that, it doesn't help much.


Re:but I don't see the subscription as useful (1)

Sawbones (176430) | more than 12 years ago | (#2448381)

Actually the subscription you pay isn't for the "seasons pass" (thats a built in feature that lets you record all occurances of one show) you pay for the clickable TV guide listings esentially (that and the ability for it to learn your preferences). If you elect not to subscribe to the service it's basically what you described, a digital VCR that you tell to record from a certain time to a certain time on a specifi chanel.

- Sawbones

but from everything I've seen (2)

hawk (1151) | more than 12 years ago | (#2448417)

with 2.5, you lose that ability without the subscription. ISTR that you can only record for thirty minutes at a time, manually, without the package. Nt only that, but down below someone suggests that you need the service just to set the time . . .


Building a bare-bones DVR with Linux? (3, Interesting)

swngnmonk (210826) | more than 12 years ago | (#2448045)

Are there better resources out there than http://linuxvideo.org?

I like the functionality of the TiVo, but I don't want to spend the money on one - I don't need anything but a way to decode & record a cable TV signal.

  • TiVo - Does the TiVo come with a cable descrambler? If not, do you need to leave your cable box on the channel you want to record on?? Isn't that a huge PITA?
  • Hardware - Are there PCI cards out there that can accept a coaxial input & output S-Video or Composite video? (I've already got a kick-butt AGP card I'd rather not get rid of)
  • Cable - Does 'basic' cable (e.g. in the US, TNT/TBS/History Channel) get scrambled? Is there a way to decode in software?

Why? Because the TiVo can't be programmed from the office, and I can't move anything off the TiVo to store for later viewing. I've already got 150+ GB of available storage, I need to use it for something.

Re:Building a bare-bones DVR with Linux? (1)

Gaijin42 (317411) | more than 12 years ago | (#2448102)

Tivo can handle basic cable automatically just shove the wire into the back of the box. But if you have digitial cable, you still need the tuner.

However it isnt a PITA, because tivo can control the cable box automatically, so it can change the channel on demand. Thus you can record a show at 7 on channel 1, and 7:30 on channel 2 with no user intervention.

Re:Building a bare-bones DVR with Linux? (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2448138)

I can answer your first question. No, you don't have to leave TiVo on the channel you're recording. TiVo will change channels for you. The program guide data has the channels in it, so it knows what's on what time.

TiVo can be programmed from the office - it just isn't easy or supported. People have come up with an Ehternet card hack and web interface for TiVo.

I believe that there is a hack that will (for the time being) let you remove programming from the TiVo. Be aware that even a lot of people in the TiVo Underground don't support this on the grounds that it may get TiVo sued out of business.

Re:Building a bare-bones DVR with Linux? (1)

eXtro (258933) | more than 12 years ago | (#2448179)

I've got a Sony TiVo (currently in shop due to shoddy engineering on the MODEM) and basic cable. All of the basic cable signals you listed are unscrambled, at least in my area, your mileage may vary. TiVo doesn't come with a cable descrambler, but if I remember correctly it can control a cable box, so the box would only need to be on the channel its recording while its recording.

I'm starting to put together a linux based digital VCR, there's not a lot of complete information out there, but I can answer some of your questions.

All of the capture boards I've seen are purely tuner/capture boards, they don't have S-video output. Some AGP video cards do have S-video output, and some of them are supported in linux.

The main problem I'm having now is noise from my Soundblaster Live. After hooking up the capture board I seem to have created a ground loop, making for really poor sound quality.

I haven't worked with the S-video output on my board yet, I'm not sure its supported, but my eventual intention is to build a tiny computer similar to the one posted on slashdot today that can sit on my home LAN and be a part of my entertainment system.

bug trackin (1)

famazza (398147) | more than 12 years ago | (#2448049)

Trying to send a message after moderation.

Please, do not moderate this down. If possible remove this message.

I love my TiVo (0)

jgomez (518892) | more than 12 years ago | (#2448087)

I don't know about anyone else, but when you can record the Simpsons any time any where it's a good thing. I'm watching them right now.

Re:I love my TiVo (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2448135)

can I come over?

Mixed (2)

mickeyreznor (320351) | more than 12 years ago | (#2448131)

To tell you the truth, I'm unsure what to think about this. On the one side, this is going to be a big boost for TiVo's publcity, but on the other I'm concerned with how Sony is going to use TiVo's license(copyright controls?).

I am surprised though that Sony just didn't buy out TiVo. Maybe that is a good sign.

Re:Mixed (2, Insightful)

Gaijin42 (317411) | more than 12 years ago | (#2448146)

This deal doesnt give Sony any control over Tivo, they just get to use the technology. So if Sony puts in restrictions on how you can use the built-in-tivo, just dont use it.

You can always plug in an external unit.

And since all the networks and whatnot are already tivo's main financial backing, any content control incentives are already in place.

This is why Tivo doesnt have skip commercials. Because networks make their money on commercials, and therefore won't let tivo skip em.

Ultimate TV and ReplayTV dont have that restriction.

Containers and content (3, Interesting)

Mannerism (188292) | more than 12 years ago | (#2448147)

It's interesting that those who deliver the content (cable, satellite providers) and those who deliver the hardware we use to view the content (Sony, TiVo) are finding new and revenue-generating ways (HDTV, digital cable/sat, PVRs) to give their customers what they want (quality picture and sound, flexibility in viewing times), but those who actually PRODUCE the content seem to be doing the same thing they've been doing all along (producing generally low-quality stuff and relying mostly on ad revenues). Is there any way for technology to have a positive influence on the stuff we watch instead of just the way in which we watch it?

Sony offfers $200 rebate (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2448158)

The rebate from Sony brings the cost of the DirectTV/Tivo to $159!

See most any dealer or go to Sony's site.

TiVo's Financial Problems... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2448469)

Maybe they stem from the fact that since I signed up three months ago I have yet to be charged for service! When I check my account status it says, "Account in Good Standing!"

heh. Maybe if they'd collect the money they're owed they wouldn't be in such bad shape.

Could be a "Digital Switch". (5, Interesting)

A_Non_Moose (413034) | more than 12 years ago | (#2448518)

Ok, with apologies to the "Digital Hub" idea of SJ.

Give it some serious thought for a second. If Sony could take ILink/Firewire and ethernet, then add it to a Tivo, or Tivo-like device, it would make a killing, IMO.

A rather nebulous idea, to be sure, but one time I was being rather lazy and needed some images I had snagged...for lack of a zip disk, and rather than emailing them to myself or ftp'ing I simply dragged the images to a digital camera and it had put them on the memory card inside.

Very neat and simple. A device that does what you want w/o any restrictions, encryption, access denied, backdoors, product activation.
Drag, Drop, copy, done. (I hesitate to say I was on a mac, so no flames, pls)

Imagine this applied to a PVR. You've got a dvd/SVCD/VCD/mpg/avi/mov or heck maybe even mp3's for good measure. You drag, drop or pipe it over a wire and it plays by either decoding it or accepting a straight DV stream.
Not only would the coolness factor be a driving force, but the MP|RI-AA "FSCK OFF" factor would make them fly off the shelves.

It could be done by SONY and very few others because SONY, unlike most corporations can, have "someone to point a finger at".
MSFT == gates/ballmer
APPL == jobs
SONY == (I have no idea).

This is what most corps are aiming for, mind you.

Yeah there would be other corps screaming bloody murder, maybe suing, but (IIRC) Sony or a Sony like company would defend itself from the likes of Rambus/MSFT/MPAA. (Was it Sony?...don't remember and too dang tired to look it up, anywho..).

I think, it is a possibility...some corps "get it" when they 'give ppl what they want' *not* "give ppl what they think we want'".

One Moose's opinion.

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