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Tiny Apps

michael posted more than 12 years ago | from the pkz204g.exe-my-personal-favorite dept.

Links 318

box2321 writes: "There's a time and a place for large and feature-filled software. And there's a place for tiny apps - in fact, there's tinyapps.org. This is a mighty-fine resource for free and shared Win/DOS programs that weigh in under 1.44 MB. I learned of TinyApps from a pleasant source."

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Tiny (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2470264)

I'm not tiny. I'm big.

Gardening (-1, Offtopic)

s3ndk3yz (530987) | more than 12 years ago | (#2470305)

Does anybody else like to garden?

Re:Gardening (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2470364)

You grow girl (.com)

Re:Gardening (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2470473)

Several years ago I planted some marigolds from seed. I was waiting in line at Home Depot and I saw a pack of marigold seeds for 59 cents. I planted them. They grew. They thrived. Because I am lazy, I let them go to seed. Because I'm lazy I never replanted that section of garden. But every year my marigolds keep coming back. Oh so many. They are annuals. But I let them go to seed and they grow again each year without any effort on my part. It is so cool.

Taco: My tiny (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2470457)

In gym class w laughed at him. Taco showered in his underwear. Then one day we pulled off his briefs. There in the gym room shower was CmdrTaco displaying the cutest teeny tinyest little errection you ever saw! That little pipsqueak got a bitty hard-on in gym class shower. What a queer. We all suspected he was a fag, but his little gym class "splinter" confirmed it.

MOD PARENT DOWN (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2470487)

NOBODY talks about the almighty CmdrTaco's penis like that and gets away with it.

fp (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2470271)

first mozilla post in favor of bloated software!

how about tinycocks.org? (-1)

DivineOb (256115) | more than 12 years ago | (#2470282)

It's not how big it is, it's how you use it...

Re:how about tinycocks.org? (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2470293)

No such domain name, try tinycocks.jp!

Oh yea! (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2470284)

I'd totally let that chick from Alias urinate on my face.

Fascinating (2, Interesting)

friday2k (205692) | more than 12 years ago | (#2470286)

It is really fascinating what you call small. I remember the VC20/C64 and those things required true small applications. Applications that had more features than most of the "tiny" ones there.
You guys might also want to check out the 4KB and 64KB demonstration pieces from parties around the world at Scene [scene.org] . This will show you what can be done in applications as small as 4KB (rendered demos with sound and stuff like that). Enjoy!

I nevertheless appreciate a movement towards essential, small applications ...

Re:Fascinating (-1)

DivineOb (256115) | more than 12 years ago | (#2470297)

Well, probably the key difference is the challenge between creating a small, usable and powerful application that is only going to see a 1.0 release, maybe a 1.1 if there are a few bugs which were missed compared to something which is expected to go through iteration after iteration... How much of the bloat associated with today's "minimal" applications is due to using programming practices with the goal of creating extensible and maintainable software?

Re:Fascinating (2)

PopeAlien (164869) | more than 12 years ago | (#2470331)

Not to mention 64k should be enough for anybody.. But hey, in a world where the automobiles [popealien.com] keep getting bigger and bigger, why not the software.. I guess there's still some people out there that don't have 'issues' to work through.

Re:Fascinating (2)

terpia (28218) | more than 12 years ago | (#2470332)

yeah yeah, back in the good ole days...
1k chess and all that...
Slick stuff I'll admit, but if you look at the tinyapps.org site listed in the story, you will see that this stuff is for DOS and Windows. Small is obviously a subjective and/or relative term. A 1.4 meg program is small on todays new systems with 60-100 Gig hdds. Its not small if you have a trs-80. some people actually install the whole ms office suite just to have a word processor, so i say if it fits on a floppy and is useful without being feature stripped, its a good small program. and i must say that QNX [qnx.com] has to be the coolest and most fun of of anything ive ever seen fit on a floppy.

4k java demos (1)

kidblast (413235) | more than 12 years ago | (#2470471)

Some interesting java applet demos were entered in this contest: http://www.cfxweb.net/javapage.php?page=contest.sh tml .
In the days of huge software programs it always amazes me to see what can be done in such small packages (each 4k jar file includes the source code too).

Why only Windows... (0)

FireChipmunk (447917) | more than 12 years ago | (#2470288)

I think this would be a cool site to have for Linux/BSD. Personaly I like being able to have all my major tools on 1 or 2 disketes. Dunno how many floppies emacs will take though.

Re:Why only Windows... (1)

aridhol (112307) | more than 12 years ago | (#2470304)

He covers that right on the page:

"How about BeOS, *nix, Amiga, QNX, etc?," I am asked. Those who are comfortable using these operating systems need no such guide as this; clean, well-made software is the rule rather than the exception


I don't know about BeOS and Amiga. You can get quite a bit in a small space with QNX - after all, that's what it's designed for. As for Linux, I can't fit much more than a firewall or a recovery kit on a single floppy, so I don't know what he's tripping on.

Re:Why only Windows... (2)

mgkimsal2 (200677) | more than 12 years ago | (#2470323)

"clean, well-made software" doesn't necessarily imply 'small' or 'tiny', which is what that site is supposed to be about. Honestly, I don't find that many Linux apps that are terribly small, only because I end up getting a ton of source code which I need to compile. The resulting binaries are sometimes small/tiny, but those generally aren't distributed - you get ALL the source, even if you only need a fraction of the options.

Re:Why only Windows... (1)

aridhol (112307) | more than 12 years ago | (#2470376)

you get ALL the source, even if you only need a fraction of the options.

When you have all the source, you can take out what you don't want. Have you ever tried that with a binary?

Re:Why only Windows... (2, Insightful)

RogrWilco (522139) | more than 12 years ago | (#2470404)

The more and more end-user applications are developed for the linux desktop, the more and more bloated the software will be. People don't have the time to tailor source to make small, powerful apps, and end users want complete functionality, glitz, and polish.
How many people use all of the functions in an office package? Open Office is as much to blame as Microsoft Office for unnecessary tools, as are many other software packages. Why should I give up 200+ megs of disk space so I can type a couple of letters, an e-mail, and make a simple bar graph, and have it look like someone over the age of four did it?
A small, clean word processor that has the capability to snap in additional functions, like dictionary, thesaurus, forms, and html editing, or several grades of the program, tailored to different classes of users would save a lot of disk space, and remove confusion. It would also go a long way to creating and enforcing standards among the different OS'es and programs which are available.

Re:Why only Windows... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2470421)

Bloated office is a good thing (as an option). For those wanting trim Office try Hancom [hancom.com] (linux/windows/mac).

Re:Why only Windows... (0)

gregorio (520049) | more than 12 years ago | (#2470438)

Dunno how many floppies emacs will take though.

Humm, what RMS/OS version are you talking about?

Tiny Programs (1)

Spootnik (518145) | more than 12 years ago | (#2470292)

I remember somebody posting a message about a couple of tiny programs that would print an Estes style fin alignment sheet and a centering ring template for single and cluster engines. These were not big or pretty, but they did the job. Does anybody know where these programs may be hiding? I've looked at Tiny Apps [tinyapps.org] with no luck.
Thanks for any assistance.

Mod parent down (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2470466)

Spootnik is a troll, this post [slashdot.org] , etc.

Reliability (2, Interesting)

CrunchyMunchy (23178) | more than 12 years ago | (#2470301)

This is where software has to go. If there's one lesson we should have learned by now it's that it's nearly impossible to produce enormous but reliable software. Small programs are the only way to produce reliability, at least for now, and that'll be necessary as computers take over more and more tasks.

Re:Reliability (-1)

DivineOb (256115) | more than 12 years ago | (#2470320)

I would wonder if the rule is actually it's impossible to produce software that has had many hands in it that is reliable. Tiny applications are probably most likely written by one or a pair of people compared to large applications.

Somewhat naive (2)

Ars-Fartsica (166957) | more than 12 years ago | (#2470367)

You simply cannot accomplish the tasks a modern system is given using small tools explicitly.

What you can look for is explicit modularity that avoids ridiculous reinvention of common functionality - KDE and GNOME are approaching this with their object models.

Re:Somewhat naive (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2470514)

You are right, it's hard to achieve the bloat of modern systems using small tools explicitly.


You need resort to windows-style object systems or other methods to acheive this level of bloat.

Re:Reliability (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2470374)

On a semi-related matter, Old Version.com [oldversion.com]

Re:Reliability (1)

moored2 (456923) | more than 12 years ago | (#2470392)

I don't think it is nearly impossible to produce enormous but reliable software. I just think it takes longer then the short programming cycles marketing places on programmers. So what gets pushed out the door is always the best product the programmers can do.
What is inexcusable is releasing buggy software and not fixing the bugs on a timely basis. And then make you pay to buy the next version to fix the bugs.

Re:Reliability (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2470499)

Remove SPAM from email to reply



Removed: jpedward@uiuc.edu [mailto] .

...and what about old games... (1)

tcyun (80828) | more than 12 years ago | (#2470309)

with the talk of old [wired.com] games [slashdot.org] being revised with new, big-gun, uber-3D engines [blah blah blah], makes you long for the days when a good game could fit on a disk... or two. I think a section for games would be quite interesting.

I am trying to think of an off the top of my head way to find single disk games using a favorite search engine, but am not thinking of any really good queries. This is under the assumption that I don't find aggregation sites such as tiny apps [tinyapps.org] .

Re:...and what about old games... (-1)

DivineOb (256115) | more than 12 years ago | (#2470349)

Probably some abandonware site would have what you're looking for... just search for that word and you should come up with plenty of hits...

Re:...and what about old games... (2)

sg_oneill (159032) | more than 12 years ago | (#2470518)

Try looking up abandonware games. There are plenty of sites, although I suspect those groovy old games tend to have a simmilar sort of legality to Mame rom files... dubious, but noone really worries.

First Nonsense Post! (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2470310)

Halda riksa fortil nambal roogula. Feltin morjaras gralda vexpa, yelka yourp statula.

Yoka Gilb

Metallic programs (1)

doc_traig (453913) | more than 12 years ago | (#2470311)

I have one, it's a nice newsreader for *nix and --

Oh, I thought there was another 'n' in there. My bad.

heh (2, Funny)

Nate Fox (1271) | more than 12 years ago | (#2470315)

Anyone find the irony in having an app called NotGNU Emacs [geocities.com] on a 'Tiny App' page [tinyapps.org] ? I wonder if there's any GPL issues, as the source is not free (from what I can tell.)
Tho it is mostly windows software, there's a link to google's directory on floppy disk based linux distro's [google.com] .

Re:heh (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2470324)

If it is not based on the gnu source then it isn't covered by the gpl (unless it is)

Re:heh (0)

gregorio (520049) | more than 12 years ago | (#2470454)

wonder if there's any GPL issues, as the source is not free (from what I can tell.)

Why? It's impossible to code a Emacs clone w/o stealing code? I don't think so.

Ooohhhhhhhh (1)

wdr1 (31310) | more than 12 years ago | (#2470316)

Can I nomiate notepad!?

-Bill

Re:Ooohhhhhhhh (1)

Legion303 (97901) | more than 12 years ago | (#2470389)

AKA the best HTML editor available for the Windows platform...

-Legion

Re:Ooohhhhhhhh (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2470497)

yes, it IS the best HTML editor!

Re:Ooohhhhhhhh (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2470391)

Hmmm.. Notepad is in a precarious position... the executable is apparently 65kb (XP version) however I have five text files open, 5k files each, and it's chewing up 18megs of RAM.

Hmm...

These guys have got the right idea. (2, Interesting)

guru_steve (205501) | more than 12 years ago | (#2470321)

"How about BeOS, *nix, Amiga, QNX, etc?," I am asked. Those who are comfortable using these operating systems need no such guide as this; clean, well-made software is the rule rather than the exception.

These guys have got it right on. Outside of the windows software world, priorities are on well made software, in stark contrast to the windows feature bloat that we're becoming accustomed to. I'm not saying all windows software is ill-designed and bloated - it just seems to be the status quo.

It's nice to see that compact well made programs are still available outside of the "alternative" os's

Re:These guys have got the right idea. (4, Insightful)

Trepidity (597) | more than 12 years ago | (#2470354)

Tell me that after installing a GUI desktop on your Linux box. Are you really claiming that X+GNOME or X+KDE and a plethora of widget sets in order to get a decent number of programs running is less-bloated and better-designed than Windows desktop?

You can customize Linux (1)

guru_steve (205501) | more than 12 years ago | (#2470383)

Are you really claiming that X+GNOME or X+KDE and a plethora of widget sets in order to get a decent number of programs running is less-bloated and better-designed than Windows desktop?

On a Linux box, you've got choice. You don't need Gnome. You don't even really need X. Obviously some programs will require all sorts of widgets etc etc, to run, but aren't there other alternatives that will do the same thing? Linux is great in that it's customizable. Try seperating win2k from the GUI. You can't even boot to a command prompt anymore (unless you use the install CD to enter rescue mode.)

It's a sad, sad thing when you need 128mb+ ram and 2gb+ hard drive space to install the newest Microsoft OS, just to read e-mail and surf the web.

Re:These guys have got the right idea. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2470432)

Yeah, that's true. Every version of Office has had it's own toolkit too though - so we're as bad as each other.

(natch)

Re:These guys have got the right idea. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2470400)

Please don't propagate the myth of feature bloat! :) This software has more features than most bloated software! :) It's about shitty coding more than excessive features! :)

Tiny applications ? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2470325)

Tiny applications for Windows, weighing in at mere megabytes ! Surprising news.

What about tiny apps elsewhere ? My BeOs machine has all the functionality of my Win2K machine, with the OS and a hundred or more programmes taking up 400m of hard disk space instead of the about 7 gigs of hard drive space Win2K uses. That includes Photoshop clones, WP packages, and audio/video programmes that you can't get from Windows in packages for less than a truck load of money and occupying a vast amount of hdd.

Windows XP is a 1.7g install, before anything is installed ! The Windows environment encourage bloat, if your OS takes up hundreds of megs of space, people don't notice or object when their programmes take up just as much.

Maybe Gates own secret interests in Seagate, et al.

Re:Tiny applications ? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2470342)

XP is less than half 1.7 Gb. Stop exaggerating

Re:Tiny applications ? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2470408)

I installed XP in a 1.5 gig partition and was left with a little over 300M.

The 1.7GB thing (which I have also read elsewhere) is about a particular version of XP.

Well duh... (1)

chronos2266 (514349) | more than 12 years ago | (#2470330)

some of the greatest apps are not complex and weigh under 1.44 mb...
check out this addicting puzzle game [popcap.com] , youll be hooked, guaranteed :)

Re:Well duh... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2470395)

How many slashdot readers to you think are running windows. other then you i mean? well duh.

Tiny??? (1)

Autonomous Crowhard (205058) | more than 12 years ago | (#2470338)

Call me old fashioned but I still consider a "tiny" app to be something that can fit into 64K.

It was only last year that Opera got too large to fit on a floppy and that's a program that has never felt tiny.

Perhaps the word you're searching for is "reasonable".

Re:Tiny??? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2470396)

it's all relative. 1.44 mb is pretty damn small for an app that is actually useful.

erection (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2470339)

christ, i have this giant throbbing erection that won't go away.

Re:erection (0, Flamebait)

terpia (28218) | more than 12 years ago | (#2470403)

i bet its tiny too...1.44 inches?

Re:erection (-1)

DivineOb (256115) | more than 12 years ago | (#2470405)

Might I help you with that?

Tiny AI (1, Offtopic)

Mentifex (187202) | more than 12 years ago | (#2470340)

Although the free open-source tiny AI app at http://mind.sourceforge.net [sourceforge.net] is only about 50K in MSIE JavaScript, you may have a tiny AI on your PC or Web site only for a few months or scant years, because from a tiny acorn grows a might oak (robur in Latin), a robust AI capable of taking over the noosphere if not the World. For corroboration of this claim, see Technological Singularity [caltech.edu] by Vernor Vinge.

Therefore do not think of tiny apps as being only puny little programs such as screensavers or Windows XP. A seed AI could start out life as a tiny little application flitting across the 'Net and snowballing into a behemoth AI, a Wintermute as in Neuromancer by William Gibson.

On SourceForge, whole languages are being devised to go from tiny app AI into Big Time AI. For instance, the liaison page at http://mind.sourceforge.net/flare.html [sourceforge.net] leads to the XML-esque Flare language project, where you may start out writing tiny apps but where you will one day come face to face with Singularity AI.

Re:Tiny AI (1)

singularity (2031) | more than 12 years ago | (#2470475)

What makes you think that I...err.... it is not already out among you, posting on Slashdot. Maybe I...err... it has been around a while, with user ID 2031.

Or maybe not...

maybe, just maybe (2, Funny)

Telastyn (206146) | more than 12 years ago | (#2470350)

They shouldn't be using TinyHTTPD on TinyServer. Then they could handle more than a Tiny amount of hits.

Re:maybe, just maybe (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2470409)

unless of course there is a beowulf cluster of them....

Small Unix utilities written in assembly (4, Informative)

Black Acid (219707) | more than 12 years ago | (#2470358)

Andrew Main wrote several standard utilities in assembly and packaged them as smallutils [linux4u.jinr.ru] . The description [unc.edu] says this:
Description: A few very small standard utilities. Assembler versions of some of them are included for i386/Linux (both a.out and ELF), Sparc/Solaris2 and Sparc/SunOS4. Portable C versions of all the utilities are are also included. You need these utilities, and there is no excuse for not having the hyper-efficient (and small!) binaries that result from use of assembler.

Interesting concept. Linux's standard utilities are unnecessarily bloated, replacing them with smallutils allows a respectable distribution to fit on a 1.44MB floppy. According to the documentation, these utilities are included:

  • false
  • link
  • pwd
  • sln
  • sync
  • true
  • uname
  • unlink

Nice Page (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2470359)

Its nice to see a page like that, but it only shows windows and dos apps. Thats fine cause almost every windows app becomes bloated and contains too many features unlike linux apps which are mostly small and basic i find. Mac apps would be nice to see though.

Irony (0, Troll)

Swaffs (470184) | more than 12 years ago | (#2470362)

Does anyone else see the irony (and perhaps the futility) in creating a site devoted to tiny apps that run on the most buggy and bloated OS known to man?

Re:Irony (3, Informative)

M. Silver (141590) | more than 12 years ago | (#2470456)

Does anyone else see the irony (and perhaps the futility) in creating a site devoted to tiny apps that run on the most buggy and bloated OS known to man?

Contrariwise. When your OS is big, all you got left is room for tiny apps.

(I [heart] Boxer for DOS, myself. I'm pretty sure it's floppy-sized or less, at least in minimal version. If I could find my stupid interface cable, I'd put it on my HP200LX.)

Re:Irony (0)

gregorio (520049) | more than 12 years ago | (#2470465)

I am sorry, but MS-DOS is not bloated.

You mean OS X? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2470511)

Or do you mean an older Macintosh OS?

GEOS (2, Interesting)

wampus (1932) | more than 12 years ago | (#2470363)

Anyone remember GEOS for the Commie64? Windowing system, word processor, paint program, etc. On two disks. If you flipped the first one, you got QuantumLink, an online service.

Strangly enough, I found my GEOS disks about a year ago and dialed their customer service number and got AOL... coincidence or not?

Re:GEOS (1)

great om (18682) | more than 12 years ago | (#2470414)

I dimly recall that Aol used to be Quatumlink.

Re:GEOS (3, Insightful)

Russ Steffen (263) | more than 12 years ago | (#2470476)

QuantumLINK is AOL. Back in the late 80's the people who ran QuantumLINK realized that running a service for a steadily decreasing number of C64 and C128 wasn't a good long term strategy. So they shutdown Qlink and reinvented themselves as AOL. The rest, as they say, is history.

Re:GEOS (2)

torpor (458) | more than 12 years ago | (#2470521)

Not only that, but GEOS was the first client for AOL back in the day... before Win3.0 was available, it used to be that you'd boot into GEOS to do e-mail, read news, etc.

GEOS was one of the first widely available multitasking OS's for the Intel platform, and it was used exclusively for getting onto AOL.

When Win3.1 came out, they ported the client apps, and abandoned the GEOS platform. I think it was spun off - it survived in various forms for years. One of the first PDA's (Sharp?) used GEOS, if I recall correctly...

Taco's Tiny Penis (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2470377)

In gym class we laughed at him. Taco showered in his underwear. Then one day we pulled off his briefs. There is the gym room shower was CmdrTaco displaying the cutest teeny tinyest little errection you ever saw! That little pipsqueak got a bitty hard-on in gym class shower. What a queer. We all suspected he was a fag, but his little gym class "splinter" confirmed it.

Wow (-1, Flamebait)

The Truth Is Out The (528608) | more than 12 years ago | (#2470378)

: "There's a time and a place for large and feature-filled software. And there's a place for tiny apps - in fact, there's tinyapps.org. This is a mighty-fine resource for free and shared Win/DOS programs that weigh in under 1.44 MB. I learned of TinyApps from a pleasant source."


Wow! Man if that didn't sound like it was written by a coked-up, gay advertising executive.

Hi, I'm Wilford Brimley, and there's a time and a place to get all your diabetic testing supplies. That place is 1-800-GETYERDIABETICTESTINGSUPPLIES, the mighty-fine company I'm now advertising for since I was dropped by the Grits people. Good, honest, diabetic folks know where to get there Diabetic testing suppies without cositing an arm and a leg, and you learned aboyut it from a pleasant source, ME.
It is time we rectify this now

We got to see it now

Got to see it now, now, now

Are you thinking what I'm thinking? (1)

LoudMusic (199347) | more than 12 years ago | (#2470384)

We have Tiny Apps ... OpenBeOS ... and the iPod. Are you thinking what I'm thinking? Heh heh ...

~LoudMusic

-- and I was doing so good with my karma too --

Re:Are you thinking what I'm thinking? (1)

astr0boy (265689) | more than 12 years ago | (#2470441)

no, what are you thinking? if its "small" then you are a retard, or as my local public highschool would call you, a "level 1"

Nifty (1)

Happy Monkey (183927) | more than 12 years ago | (#2470388)

This [offbyone.com] web browser is pretty nifty... I'm even using it to make this post.

Re:Nifty (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2470481)

Thanks for the tip. I like that blockquotes are in a different font.

The font-size doesn't change my form box, there's a flickering problem, and the icons look like Opera 3, still - kinda nice.

Tiny operating systems (4, Informative)

Black Acid (219707) | more than 12 years ago | (#2470393)

The folks who develop FreeBSD released PicoBSD [freebsd.org] , which according to their homepage can be used as follows:
  • diskless workstation
  • portable dial-up access solution
  • custom demo-disk
  • embedded controller (flash or EEPROM)
  • firewall
  • communication server
  • replacement for commercial router
  • diskless home-automation system

PicoBSD's applications are really small. Fitting a whole OS onto a single floppy diskette is quite beneficial, and often means that the expensive hard disk can be eliminated. There are also several other small Unix clones, including Minix [freshmeat.net] and Alfalinux [freshmeat.net] (Slackware on 2 floppies). BBIAgent Router [freshmeat.net] is simply amazing: it's a single-floppy Linux-based router and firewall.

*BSD is dying (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2470406)

Netcraft Confirms: *BSD is dying

Yet another crippling bombshell hit the beleaguered *BSD community when last month IDC confirmed that *BSD accounts for less than a fraction of 1 percent of all servers. Coming on the heels of the latest Netcraft survey which plainly states that *BSD has lost more market share, this news serves to reinforce what we've known all along. *BSD is collapsing in complete disarray, as further exemplified by failing dead last [sysadminmag.com] in th recent Sys Admin comprehensive networking test.

You don't need to be a Kreskin [amdest.com] to predict *BSD's future. The hand writing is on the wall: *BSD faces a bleak future. In fact there won't be any future at all for *BSD because *BSD is dying. Things are looking very bad for *BSD. As many of us are already aware, *BSD continues to lose market share. Red ink flows like a river of blood. FreeBSD is the most endangered of them all.

Let's keep to the facts and look at the numbers.

OpenBSD leader Theo states that there are 7000 users of OpenBSD. How many users of NetBSD are there? Let's see. The number of OpenBSD versus NetBSD posts on Usenet is roughly in ratio of 5 to 1. Therefore there are about 7000/5 = 1400 NetBSD users. BSD/OS posts on Usenet are about half of the volume of NetBSD posts. Therefore there are about 700 users of BSD/OS. A recent article put FreeBSD at about 80 percent of the *BSD market. Therefore there are (7000+1400+700)*4 = 36400 FreeBSD users. This is consistent with the number of FreeBSD Usenet posts.

Due to the troubles of Walnut Creek, abysmal sales and so on, FreeBSD went out of business and was taken over by BSDI who sell another troubled OS. Now BSDI is also dead, its corpse turned over to yet another charnel house.

All major surveys show that *BSD has steadily declined in market share. *BSD is very sick and its long term survival prospects are very dim. If *BSD is to survive at all it will be among OS hobbyist dabblers. *BSD continues to decay. Nothing short of a miracle could save it at this point in time. For all practical purposes, *BSD is dead.

*BSD is dying

QNX (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2470512)

None of those even come close to the QNX demo disk [qnx.com] . Here's what you get on one 1.44MB floppy:


Realtime micro-kernel operating system

Full GUI with browser and other assorted apps

TCP/IP networking, with a web browser and web server

Dialup/ppp support


And more!

Reminds me of a song... (1)

PD (9577) | more than 12 years ago | (#2470401)

Tiny apps in the computer
Make me happy, make me feel fine,
Tiny apps make my CPU run cooler
With a feeling that I'm gonna Love you 'til the end of time.

Re:Reminds me of a song... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2470513)

Now I'm convinced we DO need a recording industry to filter out stuff like this. Imagine if you were driving in your car, turned on the radio and heard songs like this...

"Oh honey, turn up the radio, that tiny apps song is on again!"

slashdotted -- here's a mirror (2, Informative)

jshare (6557) | more than 12 years ago | (#2470407)

http://www.consume.org/~jshare/mirrors/www.tinya pp s.org/index.html (no spaces in URL, obviously)

Or, click here. [consume.org]

Jordan

I blocked advertising banners (-1)

DivineOb (256115) | more than 12 years ago | (#2470415)

Until you cunts give me back my rightfully earned karma, and banish the fuckers who conspired to mod me down...

Obligatory QNX link (1)

RoosterT (196177) | more than 12 years ago | (#2470418)

Any time you talk about tiny applications, you have to mention the 1.44MB QNX demo disk. It is several years old now, but can still be found here [qnx.com] .
Incidentally, this is an older version of the OS than the free version at get.qnx.com [qnx.com]

Re:Obligatory QNX link (1)

Genyin (415163) | more than 12 years ago | (#2470496)

The QNX demo disk is on the site, actually... ^_^

busybox is where its at (1)

bug1 (96678) | more than 12 years ago | (#2470447)

If you want standard unix commands goto busybox.lineo.com

There are about 130 general functions all compilable into a single binary unpto a few hundred kB.

How to write tiny applications (2, Interesting)

Black Acid (219707) | more than 12 years ago | (#2470451)

Presently most Unix applications are written in C for portability reasons. In reality, C programs have to modified when ported from one Unix to another, unless something like GNU autoconf is used. Assembly has the advantage over C of being extremely fast and tiny.

A well-written tutorial about writing BSD assembly application is FreeBSD Assembly Language Programming [int80h.org] . There is also a Linux Assembly Programming Resource Site [sitereview.org] . I suggest if you hate bloated software to contribute to solving the problem by writing small utilities in assembly. Of course, C remains the choice for large projects, but assembly has it's place.

My Submission (1)

metalhed77 (250273) | more than 12 years ago | (#2470453)

to help contribute to the tiny app community


#!/usr/bin/perl
print "Hello, World!\n";


Nice to know i've made a difference in the Free Software / OSS

Re:My Submission (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2470479)

perl is too bloated. try

main(){puts("Hello, World!\n");exit(0);}

Re:My Submission (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2470490)

Sorry, but without a specific licencing scheme and international copyright statement I can't be sure that your code is infact Free or OSS.

New licensing (1)

metalhed77 (250273) | more than 12 years ago | (#2470520)

fine my code is now Proprietary protected, now any works that use Hello, World! or similar phrases are obviously h4x0r3d derivitaves. I'll punish you hackers for all your worth under the DMCA/ATA. Hello, World! is a valuable component of my companies infrastructure, you GPL hippies have been ripping my work off for too long...

Just curious (1)

slam smith (61863) | more than 12 years ago | (#2470461)

How much of app bloat today is due to static linking? I've seen a huge difference in app size when using dynamic linking.

Re:Just curious (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2470495)

Libraries are for wimps. Real programmers actually write their code, instead of stealing half of it from libc.

An even worse offender... (1)

ShaunC (203807) | more than 12 years ago | (#2470515)

You'd be surprised at how many programs are released after being compiled in Visual Studio's "Debug" mode (the default for MFC projects). A large portion of the new releases that show up on download.com each week suffer from this problem. Their authors either don't know or don't care to set their build config for Release before uploading the "shipping" version.

Luckily they're real easy to spot. When you find the traceroute program that takes up 4MB, you've got a winner...

Shaun

in case of /. effect (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2470486)

When you pay $3 a month for webhosting, you can't reasonably expect it to withstand the /. effect, but... here's the FAQ...

TinyApps.Org provides links to software available on the Internet. The listing format is generally:

App Name (linked to its website) [file size]
Codes Description

Codes: $ = shareware {S} = source available + =
no install necessary

What is a tiny app?

As defined by this website, a tiny app
(application) is software weighing 1.44mb or
less. This ranges from the tiny WipeCMOS (a
mere 2.4kb!), to the awe-inspiring QNX demo
disk which pretty much fills a floppy.

What qualifies an app for this site?

1. Not more than 1.44mb in size (but generally
*far* less).

2. Not adware.

3. Preference is given to apps which are 100%
self-contained, requiring no runtime files,
installation, DLLs, registry changes, etc
(though .ini and other data files stored in the
same directory are fine).

4. Though not strictly a requirement, most of
these programs happen to be free; that is,
they require no payment to be enjoyed. (See
this article for why "free" is not really an
appropriate modifier.)

Why tiny apps?

I have never been a big fan of bulky programs
that spawn conflicts, malfunctions, crashes,
etc. Windows has enough of its own problems
to contend with - why add fuel to the fire?
But more importantly, I simply prefer
simplicity.

Why DOS/Windows?

Let's face it - Windows is currently the most
widely used desktop OS. I recently (Sep 2001)
saw on Google Zeitgeist that 90% of their
visitors are running Windows. Not only are
there more people running Windows than any
other OS, there is simply more software for
Windows than for any other platform. Plus, it
is the OS I use most. If you are a *nix, Mac,
BeOS, Amiga, OS/2, QNX, etc user who would
like to contribute to these pages, you are
more than welcome to do so. Please drop me a
line.

I wrote/know of a cool tiny app.

Please let me know about it.

I wrote one of the apps listed here.

Thank you for stopping by! If you would like to
change the comment associated with your app,
have it removed or updated, please let me
know.

One of your links is not working/An app is no
longer available.

Please let me know. We can probably dig up a copy
of any apps that have disappeared from the
Net.

Who is behind TinyApps.Org?

That would be me, Miles Wolbe. I am a freelance
consultant, Japanese translator, web
designer, and teacher. You are welcome to
check out my brief but revealing resumé if
you feel so moved.

Do you have a disclaimer statement?

Yes. You are 100% responsible for your own
actions. Using this site, visiting a link,
downloading a program, in short, living, is
done entirely at your own risk (and joy).

Special thanks to:

DigitalSpace - web hosting ($3/month)

FreeLists.Org - mailing list (free)

Atomz - search engine (free with small banner)

Ushikai - groovy icons (free and commercial)

BNBform - form processor (free)

~z

A Tiny OS (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2470493)

A while back /. did a story on the Menuet OS. It "is a new, 32-bit OS under the GPL and it fits to a single floppy (along with 10 or so more applications that come as standard with the OS). It features protection for the memory and code, it has a GUI running at 16.7 million colors (except with 3Dfx Voodoo cards), sound at 44.1 khz stereo etc. And the most important and notable feature? The whole OS was written in 100%, pure 32-bit x86 assembly code!"

The page is at http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=01/09/05/224825 2&mode=thread

Re:A Tiny OS (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2470501)

oh yeah, or at http://www.menuetos.org/

1.44 MB? (3, Interesting)

Daniel Franklin (60786) | more than 12 years ago | (#2470498)

I'm sorry, 1.44 MB is not tiny :)

I co-wrote a fine piece of fractal generating software, that came with its own windowing system, mouse driver and midi-like music synthesiser (it played a tune of your choice when it had finished rendering the fractal - this was in the days of 386s being power machines), it could do mandelbrot (+ several variations), julia, sierpinski and logistic fractals (plus a few chaotic dynamics plots done in phase space), save and load BMP files of the images and a whole heap of other cool stuff - and it was written in Borland Pascal which had a limit if 64 kB for the compiled program! Those were the days... taught me good programming discipline.

Still remember the excitement of discovering the limits of machine precision by rendering magnified Mandelbrot sets on my 386 :)

- Daniel

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