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ATI Drivers Geared For Quake 3?

timothy posted more than 12 years ago | from the arbitrary-benchmarks-met-arbitrarily dept.

Quake 511

alrz1 writes: "HardOCP has posted an article wherein they accuse ATI of writing drivers that are optimized for Quake 3, just Quake 3, and only Quake 3. Apparently, using a program called quackifier, which modifies the Quake3 executable by changing every "Quake" reference to "Quack" and then creating a new executable called "Quack3", they have demonstrated to some extent that the Quack3.exe benchmarks are around 15% slower than with the original Quake3.exe (same box, os, drivers, etc). The slant seems to be that there is something inherently wrong about writing game-specific optimizations into drivers, if in fact this is what ATI has done. I think this is perfectly acceptable: Quake 3 is the biggest game out there on Windows, and if ATI has invested a little extra time into pumping a few extra (meaningless) frames out of your Radeon 8500, is this really an act of treachery?"

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URGENT! PLEASE READ: TROLL TUESDAY!!! (-1)

TRoLLaXoR (181585) | more than 12 years ago | (#2473600)

Tuesday, October 30, will be the date of an unprecedented Troll Tuesday!

On October 30th, beginning at 0800 EST and lasting until 2359, I ask that you write an original story, essay, joke, ASCII image, etc. regarding Rob "CmdrTaco" Malda and post, post, post it all over Slashdot!

So far 20 trolls of varying degrees of infamy have signed abord this ground-breaking project-- will you?

Email me at trollaxor@mac.com [mailto] with questions or suggestions!

October 30th, 2001: the Troll Tuesday of the Millenium

Re:URGENT! PLEASE READ: TROLL TUESDAY!!! (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2473631)

What the heck does this have to do with anything? Whatever!

Re:URGENT! PLEASE READ: TROLL TUESDAY!!! (-1)

TRoLLaXoR (181585) | more than 12 years ago | (#2473796)

Tuesday, October 30, will be the date of an unprecedented Troll Tuesday!

On October 30th, I ask that you write an original story, essay, joke, ASCII image, etc. regarding Rob "CmdrTaco" Malda and post, post, post it all over Slashdot!

So far 20 trolls of varying degrees of infamy have signed abord this ground-breaking project-- will you?

Email me at trollaxor@mac.com [mailto] with questions or suggestions!

October 30th, 2001: the Troll Tuesday of the Millenium

Re:URGENT! PLEASE READ: TROLL TUESDAY!!! (-1)

Fecal Troll Matter (445929) | more than 12 years ago | (#2473805)

I'm down.

http://www.brittneycleary.com/imme.html

-Visit the site above, I fucking *hate* this kinda shit...

Wha?? (5, Interesting)

FortKnox (169099) | more than 12 years ago | (#2473612)

Seeing that CounterStrike [counter-strike.net] has the largest online community, killing both Q3 and UT communities, and that quality mods [flfmod.com] are still coming out of Halflife, wouldn't it be smarter to target the bigger audience??

Re:Wha?? (1, Redundant)

Telek (410366) | more than 12 years ago | (#2473695)

Seeing how these are just conjectures, and there's no proof of exactly what happened, how do we know that these optimizations don't indeed effect other games as well?

Why (indeed how) would you put in optimizations that only work when a quake3 reference is found? Have they tested other games as well to see? Perhaps the only thing is that the drivers disable certain safeguards or throw certain performance slowing features out the window if you run a high profile game?

Did they grep the ATI drivers to see if infact there was a reference anywhere to quake?

Re:Wha?? (1)

Plutor (2994) | more than 12 years ago | (#2473744)

Did they grep the ATI drivers to see if infact there was a reference anywhere to quake?

I think a better question is "Did you even read the article?" They talk a lot about grepping and hex editing and retesting.

Re:Wha?? (1)

wolfen (12255) | more than 12 years ago | (#2473758)

Actually... they did grep the drivers...
and found references to "uake 3" which when changed to quack 3 caused the benchmarks in Quake 3 to slow down.

It would be nice if the people who submitted these stories read them before commenting on them.
The slant of the HardOCP story is that optimizing for the programs people are running is a perfectly reasonable concept.

The fact that Quake 3 is used to benchmark video cards just confuses the issue. Really, isn't that part of why we have separate benchmarking programs in the first place?

(If the driver was optimized for 3dWinMark200? whatever then there would definitely be a problem.)

Re:Wha?? (2)

crisco (4669) | more than 12 years ago | (#2473718)

Yeah this was my first response to timothy's posting, that the relatively ancient Half-Life engine is much more popular than Quake 3. Of course, how many benchmarks do you see for Counterstrike?

Probably because the engine is old and doesn't strain today's crop of computers it isn't worth bothering with. My old P200 with VooDoo2 card ran the HalfLife mods passably, if not exactly smoothly (15-40fps @ 640x480).

Most reviews don't use CounterStrike for benchmark (3, Insightful)

ergo98 (9391) | more than 12 years ago | (#2473736)

ATI knows that just about every review compares cards primarily based upon Quake 3 (looks at any of a large number of sites to see this), often under the premise that it's totally relevant because so many current and up-and-coming games are based upon the Quake 3 engine.

Maybe deyl 'optimise' for HL/CS in the next driver (2)

DABANSHEE (154661) | more than 12 years ago | (#2473779)

revision.

Everyone knows their current driver is horribly immature & the new Radeon 'II' drivers are due out (officially or otherwise) anytime now.

It's all about the benchmarks (1)

Mongoose (8480) | more than 12 years ago | (#2473757)

They use Quake3 frame rates to sell cards. Like it or not, most kiddies buy cards soley on quake3 demo playback scores.

If you ask me this isn't an isolated case of 'data fixing' -- it happens all the time. Research *all equipment purchases.

buyer beware.

Re:Wha?? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2473797)

Let's say!! just tell me how quake 3 is losing blood. All you gamers. "Counter strike is better." "Play counterstrike." Perhaps we would care for a real game! The technology game of today is quake 3. But if he wants to play counter strike. OK. i may respect someone's preference. But if someone wants to say it just for a rouse. QUAKE 3 IS BETTER THAN THE GAMES. also, one more thing. how many of you ATI IS BETTER, NVIDIA IS BETTER ACTUALLY HAVE MADE A GRAPHICS CARD FOR YOURSELF. if we want to be children about it, then go play in the nursery. Give thanks for the ati

Using ATI (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2473616)

Is using the video card of Hitler. NVIDIA wants you!

Quake III Arena (1)

Fenresulven (516459) | more than 12 years ago | (#2473617)

How about the fact that Quake III Arena is commonly used as a benchmark to test performance? No, no treachery here... (If they have indeed done it)

IMPORTANT - The Linux Gay Conspiracy!! (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2473619)

It has come to my attention that the entire Linux community is a hotbed of so called 'alternative sexuality,' which includes anything from hedonistic orgies to homosexuality to pedophilia.

What better way of demonstrating this than by looking at the hidden messages contained within the names of some of Linux's most outspoken advocates:

  • Linus Torvalds [microsoft.com] is an anagram of slit anus or VD 'L,' clearly referring to himself by the first initial.
  • Richard M. Stallman [geocities.com] , spokespervert for the Gaysex's Not Unusual 'movement' is an anagram of mans cram thrill ad.
  • Alan Cox [microsoft.com] is barely an anagram of anal cox which is just so filthy and unchristian it unnerves me.

I'm sure that Eric S. Raymond, composer of the satanic homosexual [goatse.cx] propaganda diatribe The Cathedral and the Bizarre, is probably an anagram of something queer, but we don't need to look that far as we know he's always shoving a gun up some poor little boy's rectum. Update: Eric S. Raymond is actually an anagram for secondary rim and cord in my arse. It just goes to show you that he is indeed queer.

Update the Second: It is also documented that Evil Sicko Gaymond is responsible for a nauseating piece of code called Fetchmail [microsoft.com] , which is obviously sinister sodomite slang for 'Felch Male' -- a disgusting practise. For those not in the know, 'felching' is the act performed by two perverts wherein one sucks their own post-coital ejaculate out of the other's rectum. In fact, it appears that the dirty Linux faggots set out to undermine the good Republican institution of e-mail, turning it into 'e-male.'

As far as Richard 'Master' Stallman goes, that filthy fudge-packer was actually quoted [salon.com] on leftist commie propaganda site Salon.com as saying the following: 'I've been resistant to the pressure to conform in any circumstance,' he says. 'It's about being able to question conventional wisdom,' he asserts. 'I believe in love, but not monogamy,' he says plainly.

And this isn't a made up troll bullshit either! He actually stated this tripe, which makes it obvious that he is trying to politely say that he's a flaming homo [comp-u-geek.net] slut [rotten.com] !

Speaking about 'flaming,' who better to point out as a filthy chutney ferret than Slashdot's very own self-confessed pederast Jon Katz. Although an obvious deviant anagram cannot be found from his name, he has already confessed, nay boasted of the homosexual [goatse.cx] perversion of corrupting the innocence of young children [slashdot.org] . To quote from the article linked:

'I've got a rare kidney disease,' I told her. 'I have to go to the bathroom a lot. You can come with me if you want, but it takes a while. Is that okay with you? Do you want a note from my doctor?'

Is this why you were touching your penis [rotten.com] in the cinema, Jon? And letting the other boys touch it too?

We should also point out that Jon Katz refers to himself as 'Slashdot's resident Gasbag.' Is there any more doubt? For those fortunate few who aren't aware of the list of homosexual [goatse.cx] terminology found inside the Linux 'Sauce Code,' a 'Gasbag' is a pervert who gains sexual gratification from having a thin straw inserted into his urethra (or to use the common parlance, 'piss-pipe'), then his homosexual [goatse.cx] lover blows firmly down the straw to inflate his scrotum. This is, of course, when he's not busy violating the dignity and copyright of posters to Slashdot by gathering together their postings and publishing them en masse to further his twisted and manipulative journalistic agenda.

Sick, disgusting antichristian perverts, the lot of them.

In addition, many of the Linux distributions (a 'distribution' is the most common way to spread the faggots' wares) are run by faggot groups. The Slackware [redhat.com] distro is named after the 'Slack-wear' fags wear to allow easy access to the anus for sexual purposes. Furthermore, Slackware is a close anagram of claw arse, a reference to the homosexual [goatse.cx] practise of anal fisting. The Mandrake [slackware.com] product is run by a group of French faggot satanists, and is named after the faggot nickname for the vibrator. It was also chosen because it is an anagram for dark amen and ram naked, which is what they do.

Another 'distro,' (abbrieviated as such because it sounds a bit like 'Disco,' which is where homosexuals [goatse.cx] preyed on young boys in the 1970s), is Debian, [mandrake.com] an anagram of in a bed, which could be considered innocent enough (after all, a bed is both where we sleep and pray), until we realise what other names Debian uses to describe their foul wares. 'Woody' is obvious enough, being a term for the erect male penis [rotten.com] , glistening with pre-cum. But far sicker is the phrase 'Frozen Potato' that they use. This filthy term, again found in the secret homosexual [goatse.cx] 'Sauce Code,' refers to the solo homosexual [goatse.cx] practice of defecating into a clear polythene bag, shaping the turd into a crude approximation of the male phallus, then leaving it in the freezer overnight until it becomes solid. The practitioner then proceeds to push the frozen 'potato' up his own rectum, squeezing it in and out until his tight young balls erupt in a screaming orgasm.

And Red Hat [debian.org] is secret homo [comp-u-geek.net] slang for the tip of a penis [rotten.com] that is soaked in blood from a freshly violated underage ringpiece.

The fags have even invented special tools to aid their faggotry! For example, the 'supermount' tool was devised to allow deeper penetration, which is good for fags because it gives more pressure on the prostate gland. 'Automount' is used, on the other hand, because Linux users are all fat and gay, and need to mount each other [comp-u-geek.net] automatically.

The depths of their depravity can be seen in their use of 'mount points.' These are, plainly speaking, the different points of penetration. The main one is obviously /anus, but there are others. Militant fags even say 'there is no /opt mount point' because for these dirty perverts faggotry is not optional but a way of life.

More evidence is in the fact that Linux users say how much they love `man`, even going so far as to say that all new Linux users (who are in fact just innocent heterosexuals indoctrinated by the gay propaganda) should try out `man`. In no other system do users boast of their frequent recourse to a man.

Other areas of the system also show Linux's inherit gayness. For example, people are often told of the 'FAQ,' but how many innocent heterosexual Windows [amiga.com] users know what this actually means. The answer is shocking: Faggot Anal Quest: the voyage of discovery for newly converted fags!

Even the title 'Slashdot [geekizoid.com] ' originally referred to a homosexual [goatse.cx] practice. Slashdot [kuro5hin.org] of course refers to the popular gay practice of blood-letting. The Slashbots, of course are those super-zealous homosexuals [goatse.cx] who take this perversion to its extreme by ripping open their anuses, as seen on the site most popular with Slashdot users, the depraved work of Satan, http://www.eff.org/ [eff.org] .

The editors of Slashdot [slashduh.org] also have homosexual [goatse.cx] names: 'Hemos' is obvious in itself, being one vowel away from 'Homos.' But even more sickening is 'Commander Taco' which sounds a bit like 'Commode in Taco,' filthy gay slang for a pair of spreadeagled buttocks that are caked with excrement [pboy.com] . (The best form of lubrication, they insist.) Sometimes, these 'Taco Commodes' have special 'Salsa Sauce' (blood from a ruptured rectum) and 'Cheese' (rancid flakes of penis [rotten.com] discharge) toppings. And to make it even worse, Slashdot [notslashdot.org] runs on Apache!

The Apache [microsoft.com] server, whose use among fags is as prevalent as AIDS, is named after homosexual [goatse.cx] activity -- as everyone knows, popular faggot band, the Village People, featured an Apache Indian, and it is for him that this gay program is named.

And that's not forgetting the use of patches in the Linux fag world -- patches are used to make the anus accessible for repeated anal sex even after its rupture by a session of fisting.

To summarise: Linux is gay. 'Slash -- Dot' is the graphical description of the space between a young boy's scrotum and anus. And BeOS [apple.com] is for hermaphrodites and disabled 'stumpers.'

FEEDBACK

What worries me is how much you know about what gay people do. I'm scared I actually read this whole thing. I think this post is a good example of the negative effects of Internet usage on people. This person obviously has no social life anymore and had to result to writing something as stupid as this. And actually take the time to do it too. Although... I think it was satire.. blah.. it's early. -- Anonymous Coward, Slashdot

Well, the only reason I know all about this is because I had the misfortune to read the Linux 'Sauce code' once. Although publicised as the computer code needed to get Linux up and running on a computer (and haven't you always been worried about the phrase 'Monolithic Kernel'?), this foul document is actually a detailed and graphic description of every conceivable degrading perversion known to the human race, as well as a few of the major animal species. It has shocked and disturbed me, to the point of needing to shock and disturb the common man to warn them of the impending homo [comp-u-geek.net] -calypse which threatens to engulf our planet.

You must work for the government. Trying to post the most obscene stuff in hopes that slashdot won't be able to continue or something, due to legal woes. If i ever see your ugly face, i'm going to stick my fireplace poker up your ass, after it's nice and hot, to weld shut that nasty gaping hole of yours. -- Anonymous Coward, Slashdot

Doesn't it give you a hard-on to imagine your thick strong poker ramming it's way up my most sacred of sphincters? You're beyond help, my friend, as the only thing you can imagine is the foul penetrative violation of another man. Are you sure you're not Eric Raymond? The government, being populated by limp-wristed liberals, could never stem the sickening tide of homosexual [goatse.cx] child molesting Linux advocacy. Hell, they've given NAMBLA free reign for years!

you really should post this logged in. i wish i could remember jebus's password, cuz i'd give it to you. -- mighty jebus [slashdot.org] , Slashdot

Thank you for your kind words of support. However, this document shall only ever be posted anonymously. This is because the 'Open Sauce' movement is a sham, proposing homoerotic cults of hero worshipping in the name of freedom. I speak for the common man. For any man who prefers the warm, enveloping velvet folds of a woman's vagina [bodysnatchers.co.uk] to the tight puckered ringpiece of a child. These men, being common, decent folk, don't have a say in the political hypocrisy that is Slashdot culture. I am the unknown liberator [hitler.org] .

ROLF LAMO i hate linux FAGGOTS -- Anonymous Coward, Slashdot

We shouldn't hate them, we should pity them for the misguided fools they are... Fanatical Linux zeal-outs need to be herded into camps for re-education and subsequent rehabilitation into normal heterosexual society. This re-education shall be achieved by forcing them to watch repeats of Baywatch until the very mention of Pamela Anderson [rotten.com] causes them to fill their pants with healthy heterosexual jism [zillabunny.com] .

Actually, that's not at all how scrotal inflation works. I understand it involves injecting sterile saline solution into the scrotum. I've never tried this, but you can read how to do it safely in case you're interested. (Before you moderate this down, ask yourself honestly -- who are the real crazies -- people who do scrotal inflation, or people who pay $1000+ for a game console?) -- double_h [slashdot.org] , Slashdot

Well, it just goes to show that even the holy Linux 'sauce code' is riddled with bugs that need fixing. (The irony of Jon Katz not even being able to inflate his scrotum correctly has not been lost on me.) The Linux pervert elite already acknowledge this, with their queer slogan: 'Given enough arms, all rectums are shallow.' And anyway, the PS2 [xbox.com] sucks major cock and isn't worth the money. Intellivision forever!

dude did u used to post on msnbc's nt bulletin board now that u are doing anti-gay posts u also need to start in with anti-black stuff too c u in church -- Anonymous Coward, Slashdot

For one thing, whilst Linux is a cavalcade of queer propaganda masquerading as the future of computing, NT [linux.com] is used by people who think nothing better of encasing their genitals in quick setting plaster then going to see a really dirty porno film, enjoying the restriction enforced onto them. Remember, a wasted arousal is a sin in the eyes of the Catholic church [atheism.org] . Clearly, the only god-fearing Christian operating system in existence is CP/M -- The Christian Program Monitor. All computer users should immediately ask their local pastor to install this fine OS onto their systems. It is the only route to salvation.

Secondly, this message is for every man. Computers know no colour. Not only that, but one of the finest websites in the world is maintained by a Black Man [stilproject.com] . Now fuck off you racist donkey felcher.

And don't forget that slashdot was written in Perl, which is just too close to 'Pearl Necklace' for comfort.... oh wait; that's something all you heterosexuals do.... I can't help but wonder how much faster the trolls could do First-Posts on this site if it were redone in PHP... I could hand-type dynamic HTML pages faster than Perl can do them. -- phee [slashdot.org] , Slashdot

Although there is nothing unholy about the fine heterosexual act of ejaculating between a woman's breasts, squirting one's load up towards her neck and chin area, it should be noted that Perl [python.org] (standing for Pansies Entering Rectums Locally) is also close to 'Pearl Monocle,' 'Pearl Nosering,' and the ubiquitous 'Pearl Enema.'

One scary thing about Perl [sun.com] is that it contains hidden homosexual [goatse.cx] messages. Take the following code: LWP::Simple -- It looks innocuous enough, doesn't it? But look at the line closely: There are two colons next to each other! As Larry 'Balls to the' Wall would openly admit in the Perl Documentation, Perl was designed from the ground up to indoctrinate it's programmers into performing unnatural sexual acts -- having two colons so closely together is clearly a reference to the perverse sickening act of 'colon kissing,' whereby two homosexual [goatse.cx] queers spread their buttocks wide, pressing their filthy torn sphincters together. They then share small round objects like marbles or golfballs by passing them from one rectum to another using muscle contraction alone. This is also referred to in programming 'circles' as 'Parameter Passing.'

And PHP [perl.org] stands for Perverted Homosexual Penetration. Didn't you know?

Thank you for your valuable input on this. I am sure you will be never forgotten. BTW: Did I mention that this could be useful in terraforming Mars? Mars rulaa. -- Eimernase [slashdot.org] , Slashdot

Well, I don't know about terraforming Mars, but I do know that homosexual [goatse.cx] Linux Advocates have been probing Uranus for years.

That's inspiring. Keep up the good work, AC. May God in his wisdom grant you the strength to bring the plain honest truth to this community, and make it pure again. Yours, Cerberus. -- Anonymous Coward, Slashdot

*sniff* That brings a tear to my eye. Thank you once more for your kind support. I have taken faith in the knowledge that I am doing the Good Lord [atheism.org] 's work, but it is encouraging to know that I am helping out the common man here.

However, I should be cautious about revealing your name 'Cerberus' on such a filthy den of depravity as Slashdot. It is a well known fact that the 'Kerberos' documentation from Microsoft is a detailed manual describing, in intimate, exacting detail, how to sexually penetrate a variety of unwilling canine animals; be they domesticated, wild, or mythical. Slashdot posters have taken great pleasure in illegally spreading this documentation far and wide, treating it as an 'extension' to the Linux 'Sauce Code,' for the sake of 'interoperability.' (The slang term they use for nonconsensual intercourse -- their favourite kind.)

In fact, sick twisted Linux deviants are known to have LAN parties, (Love of Anal Naughtiness, needless to say.), wherein they entice a stray dog, known as the 'Samba Mount,' into their homes. Up to four of these filth-sodden blasphemers against nature take turns to plunge their erect, throbbing, uncircumcised members, conkers-deep, into the rectum, mouth, and other fleshy orifices of the poor animal. Eventually, the 'Samba Mount' collapses due to 'overload,' and needs to be 'rebooted.' (i.e., kicked out into the street, and left to fend for itself.) Many Linux users boast about their 'uptime' in such situations.

Inspiring stuff! If only all trolls were this quality! -- Anonymous Coward, Slashdot

If only indeed. You can help our brave cause by moderating this message up as often as possible. I recommend '+1, Underrated,' as that will protect your precious Karma in Metamoderation [slashdot.org] . Only then can we break through the glass ceiling of Homosexual Slashdot Culture. Is it any wonder that the new version of Slashcode has been christened 'Bender'???

If we can get just one of these postings up to at least '+1,' then it will be archived forever! Others will learn of our struggle, and join with us in our battle for freedom!

It's pathetic you've spent so much time writing this. -- Anonymous Coward, Slashdot

I am compelled to document the foulness and carnal depravity [catholic.net] that is Linux, in order that we may prepare ourselves for the great holy war that is to follow. It is my solemn duty to peel back the foreskin of ignorance and apply the wire brush of enlightenment.

As with any great open-source project, you need someone asking this question, so I'll do it. When the hell is version 2.0 going to be ready?!?! -- Anonymous Coward, Slashdot

I could make an arrogant, childish comment along the lines of 'Every time someone asks for 2.0, I won't release it for another 24 hours,' but the truth of the matter is that I'm quite nervous of releasing a 'number two,' as I can guarantee some filthy shit-slurping Linux pervert would want to suck it straight out of my anus before I've even had chance to wipe.

I desperately want to suck your monolithic kernel, you sexy hunk, you. -- Anonymous Coward, Slashdot

I sincerely hope you're Natalie Portman [geocities.com] .

Dude, nothing on slashdot larger than 3 paragraphs is worth reading. Try to distill the message, whatever it was, and maybe I'll read it. As it is, I have to much open source software to write to waste even 10 seconds of precious time. 10 seconds is all its gonna take M$ to whoop Linux's ass. Vigilence is the price of Free (as in libre -- from the fine, frou frou French language) Software. Hack on fellow geeks, and remember: Friday is Bouillabaisse day except for heathens who do not believe that Jesus died for their sins. Those godless, oil drench, bearded sexist clowns can pull grits from their pantaloons (another fine, fine French word) and eat that. Anyway, try to keep your message focused and concise. For concision is the soul of derision. Way. -- Anonymous Coward, Slashdot

What the fuck?

I've read your gay conspiracy post version 1.3.0 and I must say I'm impressed. In particular, I appreciate how you have managed to squeeze in a healthy dose of the latent homosexuality you gay-bashing homos [comp-u-geek.net] tend to be full of. Thank you again. -- Anonymous Coward, Slashdot

Well bugger me!

ooooh honey. how insecure are you!!! wann a little massage from deare bruci. love you -- Anonymous Coward, Slashdot

Fuck right off!

IMPORTANT: This message needs to be heard (Not HURD [linux.org] , which is an acronym for 'Huge Unclean Rectal Dilator') across the whole community, so it has been released into the Public Domain [icopyright.com] . You know, that licence that we all had before those homoerotic crypto-fascists came out with the GPL [apple.com] (Gay Penetration License) that is no more than an excuse to see who's got the biggest feces-encrusted [rotten.com] cock. I would have put this up on Freshmeat [adultmember.com] , but that name is known to be a euphemism for the tight rump of a young boy.

Come to think of it, the whole concept of 'Source Control' unnerves me, because it sounds a bit like 'Sauce Control,' which is a description of the homosexual [goatse.cx] practice of holding the base of the cock shaft tightly upon the point of ejaculation, thus causing a build up of semenal fluid that is only released upon entry into an incision made into the base of the receiver's scrotum. And 'Open Sauce' is the act of ejaculating into another mans face or perhaps a biscuit to be shared later. Obviously, 'Closed Sauce' is the only Christian thing to do, as evidenced by the fact that it is what Cathedrals are all about.

Contributors: (although not to the eternal game of 'soggy biscuit' that open 'sauce' development has become) Anonymous Coward, Anonymous Coward, phee, Anonymous Coward, mighty jebus, Anonymous Coward, Anonymous Coward, double_h, Anonymous Coward, Eimernase, Anonymous Coward, Anonymous Coward, Anonymous Coward, Anonymous Coward, Anonymous Coward, Anonymous Coward, Anonymous Coward, Anonymous Coward. Further contributions are welcome.

Current changes: This version sent to FreeWIPO [5u.com] by 'Bring BackATV' as plain text. Reformatted everything, added all links back in (that we could match from the previous version), many new ones (Slashbot bait links). Even more spelling fixed. Who wrote this thing, CmdrTaco himself?

Previous changes: Yet more changes added. Spelling fixed. Feedback added. Explanation of 'distro' system. 'Mount Point' syntax described. More filth regarding `man` and Slashdot. Yet more fucking spelling fixed. 'Fetchmail' uncovered further. More Slashbot baiting. Apache exposed. Distribution licence at foot of document.

ANUX -- A full Linux distribution... Up your ass!

A paralell question (5, Insightful)

OmegaDan (101255) | more than 12 years ago | (#2473622)

When intel optimizes adobes plugins at the expense of amd processors -- so they can use it as a benchmark -- thats ok as well?

Re:A paralell question (1)

JoeLinux (20366) | more than 12 years ago | (#2473688)

Does anyone have a website documenting this?

JoeLinux

Re:A paralell question (2)

NutscrapeSucks (446616) | more than 12 years ago | (#2473794)

Intel used to have a special "Pentium III owners only" website that hyped up Photoshop scores. (Remember the whole "it makes the Internet faster" ad campaign?)

I don't see how using publically available knowledge like SSE2 is cheating. It's only "at the expense of AMD" in that Intel made a deal with Adobe to make the mods and AMD didn't get any special optimization.

Re:A paralell question (1)

MKalus (72765) | more than 12 years ago | (#2473693)

>> When intel optimizes adobes plugins at the expense of amd processors -- so they can use it as a benchmark -- thats ok as well?

I don't think it's quite comparable. What ATI did was to change a driver for their OWN Graphics chip. It's not like they changed Quake to only run fast on ATI drivers.

Is it a scam? Sure it is, but let's face it: I would be surprised if NVIDIA and others didn't do the same thing.

Re:A paralell question (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2473812)

Is it OK that AMD made a slower CPU for certain tasks, and made up for it with whiny fanboys who work for free trying karma FUD every Intel advantage?

Good on 'em (1)

Dark Legend (125785) | more than 12 years ago | (#2473626)

I say good on em, why not, if all these benchmarking sites use Quake 3 for comparisons then they should expect to have the vendors gear their hardware towards it.. Makes sense, you could equate it to the AMD re-naming.. Almost Meaningless numbers that get ppl excited..

And the D....? (1)

HarrisonSilp (527951) | more than 12 years ago | (#2473705)

Almost Meaningless Digits...... :p

I'd have to say yes... (4, Insightful)

egomaniac (105476) | more than 12 years ago | (#2473627)

This is benchmark manipulation more than trying to give customers benefits. They know perfectly well that Quake 3 is used as a benchmark, so they artificially inflated their scores.

This is nothing new, and I don't think the fact that they're catering to a real program rather than an artificial benchmark makes it any less reprehensible.

Re:I'd have to say yes... (5, Interesting)

general_re (8883) | more than 12 years ago | (#2473702)

Normally I'd agree with you, but that's because in many cases, vendors seem to tune their drivers for the benchmarks at the expense of everything else - Q3A scores go up, but real-world performance suffers. If they've figured out some way to boost Q3A performance without having some performance trade-off somewhere (and they aren't spending so much time on Quake tweaking that their drivers lag in other areas), then I say it's fair game....

The Hypermedia Hazard (1)

owlmeat (197799) | more than 12 years ago | (#2473628)

Isn't this just the perfect example of what Katz was whining about a couple of article back?

err (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2473629)

Counter Strike/Half Life is the most played FPS, Quake 3 is what is the most common benchmark. hmmmmmm

Since I never Run Quake (5, Insightful)

Royster (16042) | more than 12 years ago | (#2473635)

I think this is perfectly acceptable: Quake 3 is the biggest game out there on Windows, and if ATI has invested a little extra time into pumping a few extra (meaningless) frames out of your Radeon 8500, is this really an act of treachery?"

Yes it is. It's writing for the benchmark rather than writing for the user.

I'm reminded of a Richard Feynman quote "For a sucessful technology, honesty must take precedence over public relations for nature cannot be fooled."

Re:Since I never Run Quake (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2473787)

The last time I checked Quake 3 was a game not a benchmark. Granted many people use it as a benchmark, but the fact still is its a game.

What is wrong with make a driver/patch to make a game play better versus having a patch to make a game play at all.

Me

Re:Since I never Run Quake (3, Insightful)

StenD (34260) | more than 12 years ago | (#2473809)

It's not even writing for the benchmark. If it was writing for the benchmark, then functions heavily used by Quake would be more optimized, but it wouldn't matter if the program which used the functions was named "quake.exe" or "quack.exe". This sounds like a marketing payoff, where the publisher of Quake is paying ATI to slow down competing games. I can't think of any other rational explanation for the drivers to care about the name of the executables.

Uh. Something isnt right here (1)

Gaijin42 (317411) | more than 12 years ago | (#2473638)

If the drivers were optimized for quake3, why would changing a text string affect the speed? For that to make sense, the driver would have to be doing an intentional slowdown for all games other than Q3.

Quack3 is still making the same display calls and whatnot. No reason it that should run slower, if that is really the only thing they changed.

Re:Uh. Something isnt right here (2)

cmowire (254489) | more than 12 years ago | (#2473655)

Not really.

The drivers check to see if the program calling them has the string "uake3" in the name. If it does, they use a certain set of internal quality settings. If it doesn't, they use a different set of internal quality settings.

What they are doing is having the video cards cut corners just for Q3 to make the benchmarks run better.

Re:Uh. Something isnt right here (1)

HP LoveJet (8592) | more than 12 years ago | (#2473810)

Exactly. ATI is implementing a valuable maxim: "The smack in the brick you give the guy to test is always better than the rest of the shipment."

Re:Uh. Something isnt right here (2)

macdaddy (38372) | more than 12 years ago | (#2473691)

Or intentionally sped up. Perhaps the optimizations look for a program running called Quake3.exe and throw in a few optimizations to make it better. If that simple string match fails then the optimizations aren't thrown in. Makes sense to me.

Re:Uh. Something isnt right here (2)

cmowire (254489) | more than 12 years ago | (#2473740)

True, but if you check out the articles linked, they are doing the optimizations for speed at the expense of quality. So they are making the graphic quality of Q3 look like crap in order to bump up the benchmarks.

Re:Uh. Something isnt right here (1)

Dark Legend (125785) | more than 12 years ago | (#2473713)

Quote:
What we think we have found out is that ATi has written their most recent public driver set with Quake 3 Arena in mind. How is that you ask? Well, it seems that there are Quake 3 specific instructions in the Windows 2000 Radeon 8500 drivers version 5.13.01.3276 that are available as the latest driver download from the ATi site.

So what others have said would seem to be true..

No problem! (1)

Nawak (170627) | more than 12 years ago | (#2473640)

...as long as the game still works!

Why shouldn't they optimize for a game if they know how to do that?

They should do that for the most popular games, it's a great idea!

(Though their primary intent may have been to 'cheat' benchmarks...)

Wallh4x0r (0, Offtopic)

Mr. Eradicator (470089) | more than 12 years ago | (#2473641)

I'm sure you've heard about the "wallhacks" for Half-Life Counter-Strike using modified Asus drivers. Hell, I've got a Voodoo 5 and I got accused of using those drivers. I bet this will cause similar "controversy". Obviously it's not the same as blatantly cheating, but it's an advantage based on circumstances not controlled by the game.

The real question is . . . (3, Interesting)

SanLouBlues (245548) | more than 12 years ago | (#2473643)

Why the hell do they not want everything else to be similarly optimized?

Re:The real question is . . . (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2473714)

"ATI optimizes its drivers on many different levels, including the application level, the game engine level, the API level, and the operating system level. That is, some optimizations work only on specific games, while others work only on specific game engines or only on specific operating systems. In the case of Quake III and Quake III Arena, we were able to achieve certain optimizations specifically for that game, as we do for other popular games"

Read the article dumbass.

Re:The real question is . . . (1)

Gkeeper80 (71079) | more than 12 years ago | (#2473747)

Because then you'd have bloated hardware, which is worse then bloated software...atleast you ca ndelete bloated software.

Re:The real question is . . . (1)

drzhivago (310144) | more than 12 years ago | (#2473819)

Because in this case speed is optimized at the expense of image quality. Read the artice, they do a comparison of the "optimized" Quake3 images to the "unoptimized" Quack3 images. The "optimized" images look noticably worse.

Greg

It IS wrong... (5, Informative)

levendis (67993) | more than 12 years ago | (#2473644)

Take a look at this article [3dcenter.de] , its in German, but the pictures are worth 1000 (english) words. Mouse over the ATI pics to see the "cheat" version versus the normal ATI version. Clearly they are sacrificing image quality for speed.

Re:It IS wrong... (2)

crisco (4669) | more than 12 years ago | (#2473751)

The 'normal' ATI images look better than the NVidia images, the 'cheat' images look horrible. I can't read German so I have no idea what the context is. Now if the differences were an option that was clearly labeled, that would be fine, just like Quake's quality levels that can be set. But if it is just dumped in with the next rev of drivers, that would suck. With today's crop of computers, I'd probably be quite happy with the higher image quality still at 90 fps (or whatever).

optimization... (1)

yellowjacket03 (470997) | more than 12 years ago | (#2473647)

I don't think that this is a problem unless it hurts the performance of other games. Quake 3 is still used as a benchmark, so it's understandable why they would want the performance higher. With ATI's past performances with their drivers, however, this is not something that will inspire knowledgeable buyers to go with ATI.

Slashlies (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2473648)

Anyone can see, by reading Slashcode itself, not the misleading or irrelevant comments surrounding it, that the code in question does not apply to people who try to abuse the "multipost" bug (which doesn't even exist anymore; it has long since been fixed), but to people who have been moderated down with a certain frequency.

Let me spell it out for everyone since you have so little regard for the truth as to actually attempt to hide this fact:

Anyone who is moderated down four or more times within a 24-hour period will have their ENTIRE TCP/IP SUBNET banned for the following 72 hours.

That is a fact. It can be confirmed by reading the slashcode. It can further be confirmed by simply posting a comment which will be likely to garner a few negative moderations (i.e., any comment that disagrees with popluar slashdot opinions) and observing the results.

So michael, the obvious question here is, why are you lying to people? Why not just tell the thruth:

The moderation system, combined with the IP-subnet-banning system, will automatically ban people for posting anything people disagree with.

Slashdot is clearly designed with the expressed purpose of surpressing unpopular opinions within its comment system.

That is, of course, your right, as this is your website and you may do with it as you choose. However, people should know that you are lying when you claim (in the FAQ and elsewhere) that people are never banned for their opinions, only for attempts at "flooding". That is complete fiction.

Re:Slashlies (-1)

TRoLLaXoR (181585) | more than 12 years ago | (#2473664)

Tuesday, October 30, will be the date of an unprecedented Troll Tuesday!

On October 30th, beginning at 0800 EST and lasting until 2359, I ask that you write an original story, essay, joke, ASCII image, etc. regarding Rob "CmdrTaco" Malda and post, post, post it all over Slashdot!

So far 20 trolls of varying degrees of infamy have signed abord this ground-breaking project-- will you?

Email me at trollaxor@mac.com [mailto] with questions or suggestions!

October 30th, 2001: the Troll Tuesday of the Millenium

Interesting test (1)

mszeto (133525) | more than 12 years ago | (#2473651)

Something interesting to do would be to change Tribes2 to Quake3 and see if there is an improvement in tribes2.

If so, we'd have to ask ourselves questions about the kind of deal ATI is making!

ATI is optimizing for Quake3 because.. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2473652)

It is the standard benchmark game used in reviews and cmdrtaco is a huge looser. Nuff said.

Of course it's an act of treachery (1)

DCowern (182668) | more than 12 years ago | (#2473654)

Although I would have no problem if ATI spent time optimizing for many games, ATI obviously knows that many benchmarks are based upon the Quake3 engine. They're trying to score higher on those benchmarks to appeal to more people.

Another important question to ask would be "How does this impact other performance in other games?" Are people getting fewer FPS in Unreal because of these optimizations?

Re:Of course it's an act of treachery (1)

AzrealAO (520019) | more than 12 years ago | (#2473722)

But it's not optimized for the Quake3 Engine, it's optimized for Quake3 specifically. HardOCP renamed Quake3 to Quack3, and it runs slower. Any Quake3-engine game isn't going to be called Quake3, and is going to be running the same way Quack3 does which is slower than it should, if they were REAL engine optimizations, rather than cheating by checking the program name.

acceptable as long as.. (1)

greysky (136732) | more than 12 years ago | (#2473659)

..This is something they did extra to make quake run _extra_ fast, rather than slowing down everything else.

HardOCP's Point (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2473660)

I don't think that they are trying to cast a light either way on what ATI is doing (in fact, they state this many times), they are just trying to point out what is happening because many people are on one side or the other on whether this sort of thing is appropriate, and informing those people that will think it wrong and stop them, or at least make them think twice, about purchasing a product from a company that (in some people's opinions) is deceiving it's customers. Me, I'm not that altruistic, but what the hell, to each his own.
-NrF

Not only quake 3 then (1)

back@slash (176564) | more than 12 years ago | (#2473661)

If they optimize the drivers for quake 3 then they are also optimized for any game built on the quake 3 engine. Optimizing drivers for a game engine is a GOOD thing and IMO is going above and beyond what they normally have to do in order to provide the best experience for their customers.

Re:Not only quake 3 then (2)

Happy Monkey (183927) | more than 12 years ago | (#2473771)

Unless the speed boost only occurs when the executable is named "Quake3".

Re:Not only quake 3 then (1)

Another MacHack (32639) | more than 12 years ago | (#2473782)

You clearly didn't read the article. By editing the executable to transform internal references from "quake" to "quack", these "optimizations" can be disabled. This isn't a case of working extra hard to make sure the quake3 engine runs efficiently, it appears to be a case of detecting the most common benchmark and tweaking things to up the framerate at the expense of visual quality.

Faster or is everything else slower (1)

levin (170168) | more than 12 years ago | (#2473662)

I can't see how optimizing certain programs is wrong as long as that is what is going on. When you start deoptimizing everything else, you start moving into serious shithead territory.

It all depends... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2473663)

If they made the optimized quack3 to make the most popular game run faster for the users, or if they made it to make the specs and reviews look better.

If you ask me, they did this to make the specs better so they will be able to compete, which is inherently wrong. If this is not why they did it, why don't they advertise this "enhancment"?

pick your battles, slashdot (2, Interesting)

perdida (251676) | more than 12 years ago | (#2473671)

There's no problem with writing version-optimized drivers.

The update or improvement of such software is probably intended, first, for the new Quake buyers. It's a company that occasionally serves a fan base, it's not enslaved to the fan base that has all previous versions.

It's like a new model of a car with a beautiful v-8 engine that previous models have always used. If the new model is configured to optimize engine performance, it's not discrimination against collectors of previous models.

Definitely pointless (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2473672)

It seems as though having it optimized for Quake3 is pointless and used only for increasing benchmark scores. (Much like artificially pumping up a Mhz rating, eh?)

If they can modify it so that a mere name change causes it to lose performance, than even games using the Quake3 engine will suffer, furthering proof that this is a benchmark-only move.

Lastly, Quake3 is NOT the biggest game out there for Windows. Not even a close second. I can't think of a friend I've got (and I play lots of PC games) who has a copy. Why? We're all tired of running around and shooting stupid monsters.

Peace.

hey guys (4, Funny)

cosmo7 (325616) | more than 12 years ago | (#2473675)

does the same thing happen to Duck Nukem?

Cmon editors (2)

gergi (220700) | more than 12 years ago | (#2473676)

Let's try to start a flame by not posting stories that have FLAMEBAIT in them. That's what the comments are for.

Quake 3 is the biggest thing... for people who haven't found that everything else is better. HA! Now let the flamewar begin!

Probably benchmarking (2)

SirSlud (67381) | more than 12 years ago | (#2473682)

>and if ATI has invested a little extra time into pumping a few extra (meaningless) frames out of your Radeon 8500, is this really an act of treachery?

Not if they:

a) didn't sacrifice performance for other games ONLY to get more out of quake3 (probably not the case)

b) admit that its true, if it is true

I suppose the alterior motive isn't better quake3 frame rates for ATI owners, but rather more impressive benchmarks, seeing as quake3 is such a standard graphics card benchmark. So if they are claiming that quake3 didn't get any special attention, but they DID give it special attention for benchmarks, well, thats a little misleading. Otherwise, I don't see anything inherently wrong with adding some post-design juice for the benifit of all the quake3 players out there.

Personally, I think they did it for better visibility in benchmarking.

Just a guess, but... (3, Insightful)

Ether (4235) | more than 12 years ago | (#2473687)

It's possible that a specific driver feature or features causes Quake 3 to run 15% faster, but at the expense of making the system unstable or unreliable in other games. It would make no sense for ATI to make the cards run as fast as possible on Quake 3 and only Quake 3.

It's also possible that the Quack-quake transfer screwed something up in Quake- I'd be interested to see how a quackified exe performed on NVidia's chipset.

See this statement at the end of the text:
John B. Challinor II APR - Director, Public Relations at ATI Technologies Inc. "ATI optimizes its drivers on many different levels, including the application level, the game engine level, the API level, and the operating system level. That is, some optimizations work only on specific games, while others work only on specific game engines or only on specific operating systems. In the case of Quake III and Quake III Arena, we were able to achieve certain optimizations specifically for that game, as we do for other popular games. "

Bah, I don't even see where the "Optimizing for Quake 3 only" comes in. The Quake series has been and still is the benchmark of 1st person, 3D FPS graphics.

That being said, it would be convenient to have a checkbox in their control panel "(X) Enable unstable 3D support. May speed up certain apps, may cause problems. Use at own risk."

Horrible! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2473689)

That's just awful, ATI can't even cheat correctly! They obviously don't know what they're doing if they hard-coded the executable name.

I don't believe it. (1)

dynoman7 (188589) | more than 12 years ago | (#2473690)

I own an ATI 3D card and I still get my a$$ kicked in Q3A all the time. WTF! You'd think that if the thing were modified in my favor, I wouldn't be railed all the time, as if I were walking 1 MPH (sorry. I don't do math for you CA and EU types out there.)

FPS (1)

DA_MAN_DA_MYTH (182037) | more than 12 years ago | (#2473694)

In a world of FPS online communities where people playing those FPS worry about FPS than I don't think that writing drivers optimized for FPS to maximise FPS is such a bad thing... IHA

FPS = First Person Shooter
or is it...
FPS = Frames Per Seconds

IHA = I HATE ACRONYMS

Re:FPS (1)

DA_MAN_DA_MYTH (182037) | more than 12 years ago | (#2473741)

By the Way I hope the FPS acronym is FPS

FPS = Finally Put to Sleep

This is not simply optimizing for the game. (5, Insightful)

amohr (20818) | more than 12 years ago | (#2473699)

Optimizing your card/drivers for the popular drawing method is the natural thing to do. Even optimizing for the way a specific benchmark draws is fine.

The problem here is that it appears ATI has gained performance by reducing the image quality -- forcing a reduced texture resolution specifically in Quake 3. Compare the screenshots shown on the site. This means comparing their benchmark scores on Quake 3 with other cards is meaningless -- their card isn't performing the same task. This was a bad decision on ATI's part.

Alex Mohr

Re:This is not simply optimizing for the game. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2473784)

Absolutely this is 100% pure fraud on ATI's part, IMHO. When someone chooses "High Quality" in Quake 3, they presume that there is a generally equal playing field amongst the various cards, but if the ATI card is saying "Oh..Quake 3...I'll just give them low quality hoping they're doing a benchmark" then that is totally wrong. This "optimization" is absolutely bogus and it's yet another of the ridiculous misdirection of ATI's SUPER SHITTY driver department (who are these idiots??? Seriously the idea that they have time to spend working on scams to look better in reviews while at the same time supposedly there's unresolved power waiting to be exposed by drivers. Give me a break. My decision to (not) get a 8500 was just made.).

Christ ATI (if anyone from there is reading): Don't pull shit like this, and FIX YOUR DRIVERS.

It's due to the benchmarks (1)

how_would_i_know (526620) | more than 12 years ago | (#2473701)

It seems to me that this is due, in large part, to the 'hardware review' sites. They almost always compare various cards using 'quake' FPS performance. This may or may not be a useful evaluation. This reminds me of all of the database benchmarks, tp1, tpc, etc; the database vendors always tuned their products for these....

A bit fishy (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2473707)

As someone stated above, Half-Life and its associated mods is/are far more popular than Quake 3. So if they were out the help the community, the didn't exactly target the correct game. What Quake 3 is used for more than Half-Life, is benchmarking, which makes this seem just a little more than suspicious.

Slashlies v2 (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2473709)

According to michael [slashdot.org] :

Errr, as the code is commented just above the part you pasted:

# logs attempts to break, fool, flood a particular form

That is, the people who are attempting to break, say, the comment posting form and post 500 comments at once are logged and may be banned by IP if they try hard enough.

Anyone can see, by reading Slashcode itself, not the misleading or irrelevant comments surrounding it, that the code in question does not apply to people who try to abuse the "multipost" bug (which doesn't even exist anymore; it has long since been fixed), but to people who have been moderated down with a certain frequency.

Let me spell it out for everyone since you have so little regard for the truth as to actually attempt to hide this fact:

Anyone who is moderated down four or more times within a 24-hour period will have their ENTIRE TCP/IP SUBNET banned for the following 72 hours.

That is a fact. It can be confirmed by reading the slashcode. It can further be confirmed by simply posting a comment which will be likely to garner a few negative moderations (i.e., any comment that disagrees with popluar slashdot opinions) and observing the results.

So michael, the obvious question here is, why are you lying to people? Why not just tell the thruth: The moderation system, combined with the IP-subnet-banning system, will automatically ban people for posting anything people disagree with.

Slashdot is clearly designed with the expressed purpose of surpressing unpopular opinions within its comment system.

That is, of course, your right, as this is your website and you may do with it as you choose. However, people should know that you are lying when you claim (in the FAQ and elsewhere) that people are never banned for their opinions, only for attempts at "flooding". That is complete fiction.

Pretty lame cheat (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2473715)

It is perfectly acceptable to write optimizations for specific games, applications, etc. It is not acceptable to make those optimizations at the expense of quality in order to acheive better benchmark results. It is not acceptable to represent your results (quality of rendering) as being equal in quality to the competition when in fact they are not. (they don't tell anyone they are switching to a lesser quality mode)

Let me explain:

It would appear from the images posted on hardocp that the drivers are running in a reduced color depth/dithered mode. There is obvious banding in the images in shallow gradient areas (shallow color ramps) such as the on screen text.
http://www.hardocp.com/files/cool_stuff/quackcompa re.zip

If ATI is really doing this (and I think they are) and they are quietly not telling the rest of the world that when they detect quake 3 they switch to this mode, then I totally agree with hardocp, its a cheat, not an optimization. If they provided the user with the ability to choose the mode themselves, then it would be ok, but they don't and its a sneaky little cheat in order to gain an extra few percentage points on quake 3 benchmarks.

What could ATI possibly get for the time spent? (1)

jaygittings (212591) | more than 12 years ago | (#2473721)

This seems like so much wasted effort for the developers involved, if indeed it is true. Of the hardware sites that I use to get a feel for the quality and speed of a graphics card (AnandTech and Tom's) neither use just one program as a benchmark. Thus, when reviewed on these sites, it would just render as a strange blip. One that wouldn't convince anyone about the card's quality. Are there so many review sites out there that only use one program to benchmark a piece of hardware that would make a move like this worth it? Are there than many games coming out in the foreseeable future that will use the Quake 3 engine, thus giving gamers an advantage? Would someone buy this card because they want a Q3 optimized experience? This just seems silly on so many levels.

When you change references is that all you are (1)

Mr Krinkle (112489) | more than 12 years ago | (#2473724)

changing?
It says it goes in and changes everything from "Quake" to "Quack". Could this also be mudging up the code just a little? I know that if I am writing a game(not that I have I deal mainly in crap code for manufacturing) I would think that I would tweak the ever holy shit out of it. This tweaking of the game requires everything to be perfect for it to work best. I know that if I change directories after installing, renaming whatever, some games don't even work and some just work real flaky. In summary I doubt that they have code in their driver saying If quake3 then overclock
else underclock. or something. That would make no sense.

FiringSquad (1)

amaprotu (527512) | more than 12 years ago | (#2473729)

Firingsquad [firingsquad.com] has a article on this as well. It seems the texture quality is hit rather severely with no way to disable this feature (aside from the quackifier). They (firingsquad) also post their own quackifier, source code included, because they weren't 100% sure that the quackifier did only what it was supposed to do.

It seems the real problems are these:
* Quake3 is more a benchamrk than a game right now, so it seems to have been optimized soly to improve benchmark scores.
* There is no way to dissable it.
* It overrides ingame quality settings.
* ATI tried to hide the fact that it does what it does.

Firingsquad explains it in detail (1)

Cryogenes (324121) | more than 12 years ago | (#2473730)

What Ati appears to have done is changing their drivers so that it will pretend to run in high quality mode while actually running in lower quality mode. The effect is unfair comparison with other cards in benchmarks. I feel this is clearly fraudulent.

For details and damning screenshots go visit http://firingsquad.gamers.com/news/newsarticle.asp ?searchid=3456

Kewl, (1, Funny)

Breace (33955) | more than 12 years ago | (#2473731)

I'm naming my next game quake3.exe. Anything for a few more FPS. ;o))

Somewhat unavoidable... (2)

kevin42 (161303) | more than 12 years ago | (#2473734)

The thing is that all the drivers are buggy and/or incomplete to the point that you can't just open up the OpenGL book and write code that works on any driver out there.

When a developer is making a game they end up doing tricks to get the best performance out of the most common cards. So what happens is the more prominent developers make contacts with the driver developers at the video card companies, who make specific changes to accomodate some feature or design that the game developer needs. This often works both ways, with the driver developers guiding the game developer on how to get better performance, etc.

The point is that 3d graphics are complicated enough to not make it as simple as having an API that performs the same on multiple games and cards. Both the game developers and the video card manufacturers are doing this stuff. I doubt you will see this changing in the near future. But I don't think it's a conspiracy.

Missing the Point (1)

kurtism (473291) | more than 12 years ago | (#2473735)

The comments here miss the point. ATI didn't fine tune their drivers to run better on Quake III - they internally lower the visual quality of their rendering if the string "uake3" is detected. This allows them to render faster, and since more advanced engines are used in benchmarking for video quality, they get the "best" of both worlds (high quality in one test, high speed in another.)

It is manipulation through misrepresentation, and they should be called on it. They aren't making optimizations in the normal sense of the word - reaching the same (by some definition) output through faster means; they are reaching it through inferior means without telling anybody.

Except that they were caught.

Quake3 (1)

hackshack (218460) | more than 12 years ago | (#2473737)

As others have said, Quake 3 is one of the big benchmarking "utilities" on the enthusiast sites. Apparently someone was plugging through the driver code when they found a string which contained "uake." This, amongst a sea of numbers. They suspected driver optimization by ATI, and a few days later [H]ardOCP relased the "quack test" numbers. There was a lot of unsaid "nudge, wink" stuff in that review, though Kyle did get pretty blunt at the end. I'm not saying I don't trust ATI, but I've always carefully considered any purchases I've made from them- someone out there always dislikes them for one reason or another, and the reasons are usually pretty interesting.

Yes (1)

ZaneMcAuley (266747) | more than 12 years ago | (#2473738)

I think it is acceptable BUT only if they make it known or different builds for different optimisations. Or have a build that can optimise for specific jobs at runtime.

This is interesting, but (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2473749)

Isn't there *ANYONE* out there who knows how to use a disassembler?

They make a big deal toward the end of the article about how when you open these drivers in a hex editor, you see this. [hardocp.com] They go into a lot of trouble trying to figure out whether this means what it seems to mean.

Could someone disassemble these drivers and find out what purpose, exactly, the cryptic "uake" string is serving?

And maybe, if you've got lots of spare time on your hands, work out beyond this if there is any clear idea of what, exactly, the quake3-specific things are these drivers are doing?

Note to do either of the above, you may have to be either an anonymous coward, in a country where you have a right to reverse-engineer things...

If i still used an ATI 3d card, i would be quite definitely miffed at this discovery for the sole reason that i don't play quake 3, and i would be quite put out if ATI *could* have optimized *all* my 3d apps, but to save cost only bothered doing this with quake 3...

Well, the answer is obvious... (1)

Boiler99 (222701) | more than 12 years ago | (#2473756)

Who cares about an antiquated benchmark like Q3? That game practically went out of style a couple of years ago, and its engine (while respectable) is outdated.

All this shows is that you need to take *all* benchmarks into account, the synthetics (SPEC, 3dMark, etc) as well as other real-world benchmarks when you are trying to determine which card is the fastest. Of course, there are other things you should consider, like stability, driver support, and image quality, as well as cost and expected life. As much as I hate supporting a monopolistic system (which NVIDIA is enjoying right now IMHO) ATI is known for terrible drivers, they always have been.

As for the rigging of benchmarks, I think that is unethical. The reason for this is that the motivation behind rigging the driver to perform better in one and only one benchmark is *not* to benefit the end user by eeking them 10% more performance, but to *appear* better to joe average.

Beta ATI "Quackified" Drivers Released (4, Funny)

denzo (113290) | more than 12 years ago | (#2473760)

PRESS RE-RELEASE:

With the release of ATI's newest Radeon 8500 and 7500 graphics cards, hardware review sites have been proportedly using ATI drivers that have been sepecifically optimized for Quake III.

Various ATI fan sites are now reporting new "Quackified" drivers, originally authored by Kyle Bennett of [H]ard|OCP. Rumors are flying about this unofficial driver's unfair optimization of games such as "Duck Hunter 5: More Buckshot" and "Donald Duck's Red-Light District Exploration".

"Wow, the animated ducks are faster, and die better," one anonymous gamer said on a forum. "And Donald gets so better action with these new drivers!"

ATI spokeduck, Rob Erduckie, denies any involvement in these modifications. "The claims are just false," said Rob. "We do not believe in unfairly offering advantages to one side or another."

Rob also made reference to cheating, "We also vehemently oppose offering cheat options, such as Asus's 'See-Through Duck' modification. We're totally about fair game play."

Environmentalists have been picketing federal facilities today in protest of unfair portrayal of their favorite bird today, with writings on picket signs such as "Free the Ducks!," "No luck for Ducks," and "Ducks Need Rights Too!."

Department of Fish & Game officials were unavailable to comment.

The Linux penguin released a brief statement: "I understand the pain that ducks are going through right now. Did you read what Linus said about me? 'A happily drunk penguin who just got some'? Sheesh!"

It's simple.. (1)

beldraen (94534) | more than 12 years ago | (#2473762)

There lies, damn lies and benchmarks. The very fact that they wrote the video drivers to specifical key to a piece of software can mean a two things. First, they are Eee-VIL (little pinky to mouth). They obviously value one piece of software over all others and saw fit to garner that piece of software with higher performance because of the bribe they got. Perhaps it was money. Perhaps it was the chance to sleep with John and his damn cute girlfriend. (Did they ever get married or split up?) Second, it could be that they optimized the drivers with a few hacks may not work reliably with other games. Because they knew the Quake software was stable with them, they got a higher frame rate on a very popular game. Now, which does it sound like to all of you? The simple truth is that anyone who relies on benchmarks gets what they deserve. Evaluate the product across a whole range of activities that you plan to perform, not one. The best benchmark is the IT community, as a whole, not one piece of software. If I hear a lot of people being disgruntled with the card, I won't buy it. If I hear a lot of people praise it for what I want it to do, I would.

Bel, the mostly sane..

If they are going to do it for quake... (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2473765)

...why don't they also put in optimations for "Big Boob Vixens Strip Poker Tournament IV"?

It's only fair...

It's their intentions that make it wrong (1)

Sabol (210513) | more than 12 years ago | (#2473769)

This isn't a case of ATI working extra hard to improve the experience of their customers. Anyone in the hardware scene knows that Quake3 is the number one benchmark for comparing video cards. Not meaning it is the best, just the most commonly used.

It seems to me that ATI deliberately tweaked their drivers to make their FPS score on a Quake3 benchmark higher. It seems obvious that they did this so that their card could compete in the hundreds of Reviews matching the Radeon 8500 with the GeForce3 family of cards.

What I'd like to see... (2)

martyb (196687) | more than 12 years ago | (#2473772)

Question: Is this just a benchmark-boosting hack or does it actually improve the frame rate while playing the game?

Observation: With frame rates of 80+ at even the highest resolution on the HardOCP test box, it's difficult to see if there is any ACTUAL BENEFIT resulting from using ATI's drivers.

Suggestion: Repeat their tests with the original and with the quackified executables on a less powerful box so that the actual framerates are more like 10-15 fps.

Result: If the drivers actually help the game play, at that low frame rate, it should be readily apparent. If there's NO difference in the game play, then it's just a hack to boost the benchmark scores.

like optimising compilers for SPEC... (1)

JensR (12975) | more than 12 years ago | (#2473780)

So what ? People use Quake 3 to benchmark new cards. It's like the energy cpu manufacturers spend on optimising fortran and c compilers for SPEC...

ATI good, NVidia bad (2)

SurfsUp (11523) | more than 12 years ago | (#2473786)

Personally, I don't give a fsck whether ATI optimizes for Quake or not, what I care about is who is making their specs open. It's ATI, not NVidia, so all I can say is: go ATI. Sell lots of cards.

Quake 3 isn't the biggest game out there. (1)

Brian_Ellenberger (308720) | more than 12 years ago | (#2473788)

Counter Strike contantly beats both Quake 3 and Unreal Tournament in number of servers and number of users. The point of the article is that ATI uses Quake 3 because all of the software reviews use it as their benchmark, not for any benefit for gamers.

Did I miss something? (2)

Mustang Matt (133426) | more than 12 years ago | (#2473799)

Were there benchmarks for Nvidia cards under the same circumstances?

It's quite possible that rendering the different letters could account for the different frame rates. I'd be surprised if it were 15% but I think that if Nvidia dropped as well with the modified text, then that would show that the text simply took longer to render.

Processor manufacturers do this all the time (1)

while(1)fork()0x42 (521209) | more than 12 years ago | (#2473806)

...as do compiler writers. Look at the standard set of benchmarks for any processor/compiler and you'll see special compile tags for benchmarks testing. They've gone as far as making special instructions used only for benchmarks.

Amazing! (1)

Sinistar2k (225578) | more than 12 years ago | (#2473807)

Uh, guys? ATI has already responded to this by saying that yes, they do optimize their drivers for games.

Did HardOCP search the binaries for references to other executables? Their site doesn't imply that they did. So maybe it's just ATI trying to give gamers a better experience. It's not like they fudged 3DMark results.

Wrong again (4, Funny)

thejake316 (308289) | more than 12 years ago | (#2473808)

Actually, Intel and other x86 mfgs have instructions in their microcode to run Quake about 15% faster than other programs, this can be demonstrated easily by renaming win.com to quake.com (on most Windows systems). You'll notice applications start up quicker and your mouse pointer has been replaced with crosshairs. Some systems will require you to select a skill level as soon as you start Windows, be warned that if you choose "Nightmare" keyboard shortcuts will be disabled and applications do about double the damage they would normally.

The right way? (1)

RebelScum (48833) | more than 12 years ago | (#2473811)

Why didn't they just optimise the routines that Quake 3 uses, ignoring the executable name? Then it would possibly benefit all other 3D games, including those based on the Q3 engine, which would obviously have a different executable name. This would also have nullified the article author's test of renaming the exe (it would have produced the same scores).

Define "optimize" (1)

ShrikeDOA (118272) | more than 12 years ago | (#2473816)

I think the difference here is the drivers have been modified to run Quake 3 faster (thus improving the benchmark results) but at the expense of image quality. This page [3dcenter.de] shows some side-by-side comparisons between Geforce 2, normal ATI, and the optimized ATI (which is the default for Quake 3). Article is in German, be warned. Note the ATI pics have mouse-over events, displaying the "optimized" version when you mouse over.

Quake III is NOT the biggest game on the PC (2)

Quarters (18322) | more than 12 years ago | (#2473820)

Go check the PCData Top Ten list for the past 50-60+ weeks. What is either #1 or #2 on all of those charts?

The Sims

Quake isn't anywhere near the biggest game on the PC. The Sims is a $100 Mil industry unto itself at this point.

The argument could be made that The Sims isn't a game. But, it gets charted with other PC entertainment sales, so for this argument it must be treated as a PC game product.
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