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Debian On DVD

timothy posted more than 12 years ago | from the more-on-fewer dept.

Debian 210

jwest writes "LCS now has Debian GNU/Linux 'woody' on DVD-R We were just tired of shucking around the 6 CD/ROM's it takes to do a new installation with woody. One DVD that can be read on a common place DVD reader seemed like its time had come. More info." Debian unstable, for the adventurous with a DVD-drive. Update: 10/25 23:14 GMT by T : Sorry, that's "testing." Just ... testing.

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210 comments

Im waiting for.. (4, Funny)

BiggestPOS (139071) | more than 12 years ago | (#2480850)

The Widescreen DTS edition of Debian Does Dallas/b?

Re:Im waiting for.. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2480863)

You're karma whoring has a FLAW!

Trolls of Slashdot... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2480876)

I know that you don't care much for ACs, but I just had to ask...

Why hasn't this [quake3world.com] pathetic little forum been crapflooded? Just ran across it... It's "Rants and Raves"... They seem to think they're flame masters...

free? (2, Insightful)

Dizzo (443720) | more than 12 years ago | (#2480854)

Seems like an awesome idea. Any idea on cost?

Re:free? (1)

posix4 (262526) | more than 12 years ago | (#2480866)

it is to bad freebsd came with it first.

Re:free? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2480936)

"it is to bad freebsd came with it first."

?? Why, who cares if they did? How does that diminish Debian's use of it?..

Re:free? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2481032)

*BSD is dying!!

Re:free? (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2481179)

And others did it before FreeBSD. Big deal.

Re:free? (2, Informative)

nexex (256614) | more than 12 years ago | (#2480956)

$50, considering the CD version is a lot less it doesn't seem so enticing anymore :)

Jay Z is a dirty knob-knocker. (-1)

Fecal Troll Matter (445929) | more than 12 years ago | (#2480987)

Oh! Look at me! I'm making people happy! I'm the magical man, from happyland, in a gumdrop house on candycane lane!

Cool feature but.. (1)

DeadPrez (129998) | more than 12 years ago | (#2480856)

Can we get Woody to stable now?

Don't make me beg.

Re:Cool feature but.. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2481086)

well, get on your knees and we'll see.

and people say windows is bloated (-1)

Anonymous Pancake (458864) | more than 12 years ago | (#2480861)

6 cds??? And people say windows is bloated! Come on'!

Re:and people say windows is bloated (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2480907)

yeah... can you slim down your windows install to be 240MB? (can be done, a slim and trim debian with only X and mozilla is that big) How about putting every piece of software microsoft makes on 6 cd's?

Re:and people say windows is bloated (2)

MrResistor (120588) | more than 12 years ago | (#2481102)

A friend of mine claims he can trim windows down to ~75MB. It won't do anything, of course...

Re:and people say windows is bloated (2)

Brand X (162556) | more than 12 years ago | (#2481324)

MacOS 7.1 could be compressed to 1.1 MB. MacOS X can't fit in less than 180 MB (I've been trying to strip down a version of 10.1 for the hell of it) and MacOS 9.2 seems to be limited to 64 MB at the smallest functional...

I've got a bootable floppy with a bare 2.0.x linux kernel, but almost no drivers, and a fully bootable 20MB CD business card (rest of the space is diagnostic tools)...

So... which version of Windows can he trim down to 75MB?

muttermutterbloodybloatwaresomethingswronghereI' mn otsurewhatbutit'sreallynotaddingup

Re:and people say windows is bloated (1)

BlueWonder (130989) | more than 12 years ago | (#2480914)

I bet you'd need more than 6 CDs for Windows, plus thousands of applications for it, plus source code of all of this.

Re:and people say windows is bloated (1)

pigeonhk (42292) | more than 12 years ago | (#2480918)

Well I imagine a complete debian distro contains every single applications or utilties you could think of for linux. You don't get much when you buy a box of windows. A plain windows installation even with a full installation, I'd say there's nothing I really want to use, or useful at all. At least you'll need a box of m$ office?

Good! (3, Interesting)

crashnbur (127738) | more than 12 years ago | (#2480873)

No more messing around with multiple CDs!

I suppose this has little direct bearing on other wares, but I also suppose that others will follow suit. I would love to be able - just once - to install Microsoft Office Professional, or Visual Studio, or any other suite of several CDs from just one disc.

Of course, as the DVD-ROM slowly becomes the software standard for such massive space requirements, I don't think that will a problem. In the meantime, how are DVDR drives' prices doing?

Encarta 2002 is available on DVD (1)

aclarke (307017) | more than 12 years ago | (#2481076)

I bought Encarta 2002 -- for my wife!!! ;-) -- the other day on DVD. Last version was 5 CDs, this one's 1 DVD. Very nice change for the better. So yes I imagine that most of Microsoft's products that take up more than 1 CD will be available on DVD in their next release.

Re:Good! (1)

Matt Lee (2725) | more than 12 years ago | (#2481080)

Office 2k and Office XP have both been just one CD for the "important" apps - the extra cds were just for ancillary junk like clipart, MS Publisher, and such.

Visual Studio is available as a DVD if you get the DVD edition of MSDN, I think.

The reason for so little DVD-ROM distribution is the relatively low penetration of DVD-ROM drives into the market. Most new machines still do not come with DVD-ROM drives standard, and the prices are still significantly higher than a CD-ROM drive.

Re:Good! (1)

smunt (458722) | more than 12 years ago | (#2481186)

I have dedicate some gigs on my machine for a local mirror. So I don't have to bother switching CD's. My other machines update from network.

That makes life very comfortable :)

Isn't woody testing now? (1)

lonenut (165873) | more than 12 years ago | (#2480875)

I think that Woody is considered the 'testing' distribution now, not 'unstable'. As a big Woody user, I have found it to be plenty stable.

Huh, huh... big woody user... huh, huh-huh...

Re:Isn't woody testing now? (2, Informative)

noahm (4459) | more than 12 years ago | (#2480942)

I think that Woody is considered the 'testing' distribution now, not 'unstable'. As a big Woody user, I have found it to be plenty stable.

Woody has always been testing. sid is unstable. Simply because woody is labelled 'testing', though, doesn't mean it's some kind of beta release or release candidate or anything else.

The 'testing' branch is a new thing with Debian, created in part to address the fact that Debian's freeze cycle is often so long that many of the included packages are outdated by the time it's released. The idea is that 'unstable' will filter out the critical bugs, and only reasonably high quality packages will get moved to testing (this happens automatically). Then, when it comes time to prepare an actual release, parts of woody can be frozen incrementally. Right now, for example, the base system is frozen. No new features can be added to it, only bugfixes. But the rest of the system is still undergoing development.

Woody has definitely not always been stable by any means. Recently, for example, X completely broke. Though the fix was simple, the problem was not obvious.

Another problem with using woody is that it is not supported by the security team!!! This means that security fixes are not a priority and don't necessarily make it into the distribution any faster than any other updated package. Using woody in a mission critical server environment would be bad. I use woody on a workstation, though, and have found it to be of pretty good quality. It's rare that something that I expect to work doesn't actually work. But then again, I can say the same thing for sid.

noah

Re:Isn't woody testing now? (1)

evil_one (142582) | more than 12 years ago | (#2481345)

bzzzzt... WRONG
Prior to the release of Potato, (the current stable) Potato was testing, Slink was stable, and Sid was unstable - woody hadn't been assigned yet.
you say Using woody in a mission critical server environment would be bad.
Where are you getting this from? Woody testing is usually VERY stable, as all packages that are in woody have been in sid for several weeks prior to their introduction into woody!
Also, anyone running Debian in a "mission critical server environment" - Or ANY OTHER operating system - should be subscribed to the appropriate mailing lists.
Problems in testing are usually found immediately, and patches released - upgrading involves ONE command as root - Compare that to the fiasco that was Redhat 6.0

DVDs on Linux are illegal (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2480881)

Use DVDs on Windows where it is not against the law, you zealots!

Re:DVDs on Linux are illegal (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2480929)

idiot! It's not the DVD filesystem that's illegal, it's the Content Scrambling System that video DVD's use... get a clue!

consider yourself... (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2481077)

consider yourself a moron for falling for a trolling AC

Re:DVDs on Linux are illegal (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2481210)

idiot! It's not the Content Scrambling System that's illegal, it's current implementations and unlicensed use of the content DEscrambling... get a clue!

I mean, really. Who wants to implement or use a Content Scrambling System?!

Why the dvd? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2480882)

What do you need the dvd for, I use the floppy disks and download all the packages I need. I think it a silly idea.

Code Bloat (0, Insightful)

pagercam (309749) | more than 12 years ago | (#2480884)

Why does everyone complain that Windoze is so big and slow. Windows with every driver known (probbaly more devices than Linux)fits on one CD, Linux even with source should be smaller, why 6 CDs or a DVD?????

Re:Code Bloat (1)

characterZer0 (138196) | more than 12 years ago | (#2480910)

Windows: 1CD
Office: 2CDs
Compilers (from Visual Studio): 1CD
Service packs: (equivilent of) 1CD
download all the other apps you still need: (equivelent of) 2CDs

thats 7. And I still don't have a whole junkload of programming libraries.

Re:Code Bloat (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2481299)

Re: your sig.

I see, afraid an AC post might offend you sensitive soul? People are SO vindictive around here only a fool opens his mouth non AC unless he's towing the party line... (Case in point) Course it is pretty obvious that no one around here wants to hear a dissenting opinion so I guess you're honest about it anyway.

Re:Code Bloat (2, Informative)

John Hasler (414242) | more than 12 years ago | (#2480933)

The kernel and all the standard packages fit easily on one CD, even with source. It's the 5000+ applications and their sources that require all that space. You can install as many or as few as you want.

windows is bare, debian has basically everything. (1)

Crow- (35) | more than 12 years ago | (#2480966)

Windows is just a file browser and some very basic tools like notepad, media player and a few card games.

Debian is 6 cds because it everything under the sun, It would thousands of dollars and gigs of HD space to install the equivalent amount of software on a windows machine.

SuSE has done this for a while... (4, Informative)

psxndc (105904) | more than 12 years ago | (#2480899)

and installing one DVD is a lot less "sitting in front of the computer changing disks" of a hassle. Only problem is: what if you have multiple machines, some of which only have a CD drive, with others having both? I know SuSE, at least with Professionl, give you both. Call me a SuSE fanboy, but I am.

psxndc

Is everything on the DVD? (2)

Mustang Matt (133426) | more than 12 years ago | (#2480992)

I've been buying SuSE since they released 7.0. Each time I get a DVD (Or did 7.0 have one? 7.1 and 7.2 definately did.) but I've never used it because I just don't think about it.

Is it simply all the CDs on one disk or is there more on the DVD as well?

Re:SuSE has done this for a while... (2)

MrResistor (120588) | more than 12 years ago | (#2480999)

I know SuSE, at least with Professionl, give you both.

When I bought 7.1, professional was the only way to get a DVD (at least for x86). I've been really happy with it. The only machines I have that don't have DVD drives are so old that I'm doing totally stripped down installs anyway, and everything I need is on the first and second CDs.

Maybe one of these days I'll get around to setting myself up for network install...

Re:SuSE has done this for a while... (2)

Klaruz (734) | more than 12 years ago | (#2481072)

Only problem is: what if you have multiple machines, some of which only have a CD drive, with others having both? I know SuSE, at least with Professionl, give you both. Call me a SuSE fanboy, but I am.

It's debian, if you want 6 cds and 1 dvd, pay for it. If you don't, don't buy the dvd, or don't buy the cds. Debian isn't generally a 'boxed' distro. The developers almost always use the network to set it up, and update themselves... The cdroms/dvds are good for initial install. I havn't done a cdrom install since RedHat 4.0.

Also, before somebody bashes it, the $50 for a beta copy on DVD would probobly be because they're doing it on DVDR. Call it a guess.

Re:SuSE has done this for a while... (1)

pwagland (472537) | more than 12 years ago | (#2481073)

Well, call me a SuSE fanboy too....

However, I only ever use the DVD (a friend and I have a distribtuion sharing arrangement, we get each release, but share the medias) and so I find myself installing over the network a lot.... With SuSE this is dead simple, you even get a choice of FTP/NFS/SMB. That's right, you can use your windows machine as the install media holder...

I imagine that with Debian this would be fairly easy as well....perhaps not with as many options.

Now, if you have a lot of machines in disparate locations, well that's another matter :-)

DVDs providing woody (1)

evil_one (142582) | more than 12 years ago | (#2481304)

There has been discussion of this within the debian developers.
It was pointed out that this is actually unnecessary, as most people will only need CD1 and/or CD2 when woody is finally released.
My primary workstation is running woody, and required a TOTAL of 500mb in the way of packages from debian.org - The extras on the other discs are things like alternate daemons (eg, you have your choice of 3+ sendmail replacements, 2 versions of telnetd, etc.) and are not needed for the typical home user.

NOT Debian unstable! (4, Informative)

emag (4640) | more than 12 years ago | (#2480901)

Debian unstable, for the adventurous with a DVD-drive.

"woody" is the debian "testing" version, not the debian "unstable". Debian's "unstable" is AKA "sid". Still cool, though.

Now I wish I either had a laptop w/ a DVD drive, or could find a decent SCSI DVD drive for my home system, since IDE sucks so bad.

Re:NOT Debian unstable! (-1)

Anonymous Pancake (458864) | more than 12 years ago | (#2481049)

really? ide sucks? is that why almost all systems use it, even many servers now?

Re:NOT Debian unstable! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2481113)

It's cheap. It's slower. It shits itself easily. It's cheap. That's why "almost all systems use it".

Re:NOT Debian unstable! (1)

cymen (8178) | more than 12 years ago | (#2481140)

Highly off topic but what exactly are your problems with IDE?

Jebus a DVD? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2480908)

No thanks, I will stick with Crux [www.crux.nu], at 413 MBs, I am quite happy with all its packages.

still not where it needs to be for me (1)

EllF (205050) | more than 12 years ago | (#2480911)

the dvd-distro is innovative, but i'd be more interested if there was a change in how the installation process was handled - right now, it feels out-of-date and is rather frustrating.

no, i'm not complaining about the install system itself; it's not pretty, but it's stable and powerful. i'd *really* like to see support for installing onto HPT370 RAID partitions (and other IDE RAID chipsets on modern motherboards), though. as of 2.4.10, there has been support for these devices, but as of now the only real way to get an install done is to make a custom 2.4.10 boot floppy, mount and bootstrap onto the devices, and go from there.

rant, rant. lots of love to debian, nonetheless.

tried to like it but couldn't (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2480920)

We (friend and I has over 4 yrs Debian experience) spent 7+ hours trying to install Debian. Ok well it installed just fine but impossible to get it to work with Matrox
G400 and he tried various irc channels, faqs, etc. I guess if your hardware supports it then it might be decent.

I've learned to stay away from Mandrake...especially in a production environment. I'm happy with Redhat on 4 of our servers at work.

My hope is in 6 months or so (progeny 1.0 had same problem with G400 though) when progeny merges their additions into mainstream Debian it'll be on par with say Redhat 7.0 (I mean that in the sense of the kernel and hardware support). Then I can see what this Debian cult is all about.

Re:tried to like it but couldn't (2)

TeknoDragon (17295) | more than 12 years ago | (#2480977)

WTF? I've been using a G400 dualhead for over a year! I even got quake3 up and running at over 40fps BEFORE Xfree 4.0 came out.

Try faq's at dri.sourceforge.net, or download the mga_hal.drv from www.matrox.com. I've reinstalled woody once and with Xfree 4.0 my G400 works _out_of_the_box_!!! Barely any configuration!

Try reading the debian wikki! Go to www.debianplanet.org... still need help... well maybe you're not ready for debian or debian isn't ready for you... one of the two... Debian is deffinately an advanced Linux OS, I won't lie to you, but when you get it up and running it kicks DeadRat's but any day. Not only that but consider that Debian unstable == redhat's rawhide, and debian testing == redhat x.0... yes things will be buggy, but updates are made every day. Try again in a few days and maybe your packages will be fixed.

Re:tried to like it but couldn't (1)

John Hasler (414242) | more than 12 years ago | (#2481089)

I've been using Debian with my G400 for over a year. I had no trouble at all installing it. Did you ask for help on the debian-user mailing list?

Re:tried to like it but couldn't (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2481306)

hmmm well this was like 10 months ago I think. Regardless I wasn't knocking Debian in the least. Well just saying that it's hardware support isn't up to the level of Redhat that's all.

Then again...today I'm looking for a SCSI RAID card single channel and two 36GB SCSI drives to upgrade a server at work and REDHAT Hardware compatibility list shows question marks for Mylex...what the hell.

As soon as Woody is out as STABLE...believe me I'll give it a whirl and give it a chance on one of my GeForce2 video cards. ATI sucks, Matrox sucks.

DVDs are replacing CDs for other OSs also (1)

Black Acid (219707) | more than 12 years ago | (#2480930)

On June 29th, FreeBSD Services Ltd. announced release of a bootable DVD containing FreeBSD [slashdot.org]. You can buy the 9GB DVD at http://www.freebsd-services.com/ [freebsd-services.com]. There has also been some discussion of selling a FreeBSD DVD at FreeBSD Mall [openresources.com]. A Japan retailer is offering NetBSD on DVD [plathome.co.jp]. When will OpenBSD follow? I expect there will be difficulties, as Theo copyrighted the CD layout - that's why you won't find it on Linuxiso.org [linuxiso.org]. That's too bad, as an OpenBSD DVD would be quite convenient.

Mandrake 8.1... (1)

Mr.Ned (79679) | more than 12 years ago | (#2480961)

http://www.mandrakestore.com/en/storemdkinc-8.1.ph p

Mandrake 8.1 is (will be?) available on DVD-ROM as well - it's $60 USD - $50 for the DVD, $10 for shipping/handling/contribution to Open Source (that's novel) - and that's instead of 7 CD's.

If Mandrake releases the Gaming Edition with that WineX wrapper on DVD, that would be really good. You could fit more than the Sims on that :)

keep it small (1)

lunpa (253358) | more than 12 years ago | (#2480976)

what happen to the good old days when you can run a decent OS just with a few floppies? Remember how 650 megs was all you even needed? ( at least for a linux distro)? Guess not

Re:keep it small (1)

SquadBoy (167263) | more than 12 years ago | (#2481037)

This only needs to be on a DVD because there ara packages for everything under the sun. The basic default install is still *very* small. http://markybobdeb.sourceforge.net/elf/ Debian rocks...

Re:keep it small (2)

sg_oneill (159032) | more than 12 years ago | (#2481446)

Actually you could probably put together a really fecking minature distroo if you wanted to. Having recently been working on some embeded linux (axis ucLinux on Etrax100lx. Good stuff!) apps, what linux actually *needs* is surprisingly small. A kernel (For fortitude, compile the modules into the kernel) a badly abused inittab (You can it as an RC) a smattering of libs (basic glib) a few prudent patches, a file system, busybox and ash. Then if clever you can wack on an Xwindows kit+twm, and all up stuff it in under five meg.

The hard bit would be "how to make usefull".

What should I do? (2)

cr0sh (43134) | more than 12 years ago | (#2480983)

I have never tried Debian, but it is on my list for "next install" (I currently run SuSE). I figure that by the time I do go to my "next install", that DVDs will be pretty much standard across the board for both OS installs and other software (regardless of OS). It is rapidly going that route.

However, I am a "conciensious (sp?) objector" to the tight fist of the MPAA - buying a DVD drive will give them their "fee", because said drive will most certainly include software for movie playing (though it will be for that other OS), which will have a licence fee attached to it.

If I could just by the drive, and only the drive - then I might consider it - but I still don't know if the MPAA doesn't have their hand still in the cookie jar somewhere.

Do I need to just bite the bullet, and throw my moral and political objections out the window? I don't think I can do that! I suppose I could buy the drive, then donate $50.00 or so to the EFF... I would rather not have any money whatsoever go to the MPAA...

I suppose I could just not buy Debian (or any other distro on DVD) - ideas or suggestions, anybody?

Re:What should I do? (1)

ArsonSmith (13997) | more than 12 years ago | (#2481068)

download the 3 floppy disks from the images-1.44/compact directory and install over the internet. All the new kids are doing it. Why do it that old school way of messing with big files and distribution media???

Re:What should I do? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2481092)

Its EXTREMELY easy to find a bare drive. www.pricewatch.com.

Re:What should I do? (1)

Sentry21 (8183) | more than 12 years ago | (#2481427)

Get a disk drive, an ethernet card, and broadband. Go Debian, and don't look back.

Heck, if you have a DOS partition, you don't even need the disk drive.

It's very nice.

--Dan

With Debian .. (2)

SquadBoy (167263) | more than 12 years ago | (#2480988)

it is better to just do a net install for so many reasons. In particular if you are going to track Woody. How long ago did they pull the image for this? Just go here (http://markybobdeb.sourceforge.net/elf/) get the netinst image, burn it, install, then apt-get to update everything.

Re:With Debian .. (1)

gomadtroll (206628) | more than 12 years ago | (#2481082)

It is always appreciated when someone in the community does the work, i.e. the 'netinstall iso. You can also use Disk 1 from Potato, gets you to the same place :)

Is woody ready for production server? (1)

ClarkEvans (102211) | more than 12 years ago | (#2480991)

I only need a few things: Open SSH, Apache, Python, PostgreSQL, Exim, Bind. Right now I can't use potato since I seem to be having a socket problem with Python 2.1 on Potato which goes away if I use a new version of RedHat ... so I figure it's the kernel 2.2 or an older glibc... is this good logic?

Re:Is woody ready for production server? (1)

noahm (4459) | more than 12 years ago | (#2481141)

Woody is absolutely not ready for a production server. Especially not one that will actually be connected to the internet or have users. The reason for this is that the security team is not repsonsible for anything to do with woody yet. You have no guarantees of any security fixes reaching your system in a timely manner.

If you're really good about keeping up with bugtraq and friends, then maybe, but you're on your own.

noah

Better yet.... (1)

Raster Burn (213891) | more than 12 years ago | (#2480995)

How about that floppy disk netinstall? It only takes 2 1.44 meg disks, and you can install whichever version you want (stable, testing, or unstable)! We don't need no stinkin' newfangled DVD thingeys!

Re:Better yet.... (2)

technos (73414) | more than 12 years ago | (#2481106)


Why DVD?

Because I can pull 20M/s sustained from my DVD drive and only 4.5K/s from the network.

Hello (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2480996)

hey

But it's still just a snapshot.... (1)

Jetson (176002) | more than 12 years ago | (#2481019)

I love Debian and use it on all of my boxes (including laptop), but question the point of buying a DVD snapshot of a testing distribution. Woody is updated on a daily basis and any machine installed from DVD would be obsolete almost immediately. The DVD wouldn't save much time or effort because you'd end up replacing a majority of the packages via internet by the time Woody hits "stable". Better to wait for a stable DVD and then just download the security fixes.

DVD != bloat (2)

gus goose (306978) | more than 12 years ago | (#2481035)

Have been using Suse for almost as long as I have used Linux - 6 years Linux, and SuSE since SuSE 5.1

SuSe has offered DVD for ages, but we already know that. My real point is that DVD != bloat. SuSe offers a number of install options. The default (KDE with Office) installs in less than 1 Gig, where as their "bare minimum" installs in about 100M. Even then they need things like perl (used in the configuration of SuSE).

Basicall, SuSE comes on 7 cd's and 1 DVD which is just a merge of the CD's. I like the DVD because drive space is cheap, and I cp -a the dvd and then install via FTP for all my machines.

But then, SuSE is a bigger thing outside of the US, so not so much media time is given to the product, which in my opinion, offers much greater things than Redhat.

gus

Re:DVD != bloat (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2481093)

Even then they need things like perl

Of course they need perl. Unix without perl is like... well, Unix without perl! Besides, it's well worth the few megabytes it takes; perl probably has the best functionality-to-size ratio of any package on a Linux system.

Installing Linux software. (1)

chicobaud (311755) | more than 12 years ago | (#2481038)

I just saw @Slashdot that Debian Woody has now a DVD distro in order to avoid cdrom replacement in installation and came to my mind: Wouldn't it be great if the packaging in Linux was similar to FreeBSD ? Do we like to check for dependencies each time we upgrade to a new version of an app we like ? I know I don't and I sure would like more download time if packages came with all dependencies already.

Re:Installing Linux software. (1)

damiam (409504) | more than 12 years ago | (#2481111)

That has to be one of the stupidest things I've ever seen. What happens when you're on a 56k modem and you have to download copies of the Linux kernel, glibc, X, and GNOME in order to install a 40k utility program? Besides, it's pointless when you already have apt to automatically download and install dependencies.

Re:Installing Linux software. (1)

cymen (8178) | more than 12 years ago | (#2481209)

Are you serious? Don't you notice when you type "apt-get install my_daddy" it grabs the dependencies too? When you "apt-get update; apt-get dist-upgrade" it'll grab all the new versions of the packages. If anything the package management in Debian is more robust than the package management in FreeBSD. That doesn't neccessarily mean it is a better though! Personally I'm thinking of moving all my servers to FreeBSD due to the slow releases that come from the Debian project. I'd rather track FreeBSD stable via cvs and get up to date software via ports then deal with Apache 1.2.9-patch-29343234 on Debian Stable. Debian has built up a fascinating infrastructure but in my opinion it is all a waste of time if a release can't get out the door on a regular basis. It's a crying shame.

Re:Installing Linux software. (1)

diamondc (241058) | more than 12 years ago | (#2481297)

then just switch to testing ... at work we run debian testing on our mail/web server. testing is about a month or so behind the real cutting edge (unstable) and is tested enough for me. so far, so good.

Dvd prices (drives and media) (2, Informative)

ritalin (4861) | more than 12 years ago | (#2481044)

Since everybody is going to ask this anyways, and other will speculate, i thought i'd make a nice list for everybody.

All prices are from pricewatch.

dvdrom drives:
(ide or eide) - 16x for $42, 12x for $39, 10x for $35

dvdram drives:
(scsi) - 5.2GB for $189 (creative), 5.2GB for $249 (toshiba), (single/double sided) - 4.7GB/9.4GB for $468 (panasonic)
(ide) - 4.7GB/9.4GB for $440 (ibm)

dvdram media - 1 for $11 (smart & friendly)
dvd-r media - 1 for $8 (pioneer)
Couldn't find dvd-r drive on pricewatch.
Sorry, looks like they are still expensive.

Hope this helps.

Re: I found dvd-r prices (1)

ritalin (4861) | more than 12 years ago | (#2481127)

On pricewatch i found 2 dvd-r drives

Cheapest is the panasonic.
It is combo dvd-ram/dvd-r drive.
It costs $445 for the bare drive (ide)

The pioneer dvr-a03 is the de-facto.
It is combo dvd-r/dvd-rw/cd-r/cd-rw.
It is also what apple uses for the "superdrive"
It costs $475.

Here are stats about the DVR-A03:
8x cd-r
4x cd-rw
2x dvd-r
1x dvd-rw

1x may sound slow, but, uh, thats 4.7 gigs in an hour or 2.

I found this link.
http://www.meritline.com/supa1dvwrit.html
and this one showing most of the industry offerings.
http://www.meritline.com/dvddrives.html

Somebody find a dvd-r howto, or write one.
And include a part about how to author one that will play movies in standard component dvd players with the use of free tools.

WOODY (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2481061)

woody woody woody woody uhhh yeah woody woody woody

Old concepts on new media... (1)

TV-SET (84200) | more than 12 years ago | (#2481107)

I don't want to go deep into history, but not that long ago several floppies installations have been replaced by single CDs.

Now we are actually doing the same thing with different media. I don't like that, to be honest.

Network installation is much more interesting idea, IMHO. It's just that one should remove all possibilities of "network unreachable" and increase bandwidth per unit of money :)

Mandrake makes DVD too (1)

2ms (232331) | more than 12 years ago | (#2481153)

Mandrake 8.1 is available on DVD too. Suse has been doing it forever. A particularly cool thing about DVD installs is that DVD drives have much higher transfer rate than CD-ROMS, so not only do you not have to waste time keeping track of cds and shuffling them in and out, but also the read itself is going faster.

dvd? (1)

Suppafly (179830) | more than 12 years ago | (#2481167)

hell.. last time I installed debian i used 2 floppies and copied another 7 floppies worth of stuff off an fat32 partition.. who needs 6 cd's or a dvd or whatever when you got broadband..

The ultimate irony.. (1)

A_Non_Moose (413034) | more than 12 years ago | (#2481214)

if hidden somewhere on the DVD was DeCSS, ripper/player software (and maybe DRM removal software...salt+wound, rub).

Debian is a German Distro, correct... could be possible as a) our legislation does not affect them (I think) and b) DeCSS was originally generated in Germany (remember Jon Johanssen was the "distributor" of sorts, he said (IIRC) it came from a "German IRC" chat/hacker aquaintence of his).

I've tried an older version (5.x era) of debian and I was impressed.

Down side to using it was my campus was mainly RedHat. Heh, and I'm a Slackware boy from a while back.

Two lovely quotes about Slack:
on /. " Slackware: when you know what you are doing"
and
From a "linux shootout" article I read a while back that gave me a chuckle "Slackware is not for everyone, the learning curve is steeper than other Distros, but is best suited for those people who never had enough toys to play with as children" .... Heh, explains a lot about me... (G).

Unix in general: "Unix is user friendly, it is just pickier about its friends".

I'll shut up before I stray off topic.

DON'T FEED THE TROLLS (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2481237)

just a friendly reminder.

Re:The ultimate irony.. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2481308)

"Debian is a German Distro, correct ... "

NoperNoperNope. Debian == Debbie + Ian, the names of the two originators of the distro, way back when. SuSe is the German distrol.

Debian based in Germany? (1)

Phil Hands (2365) | more than 12 years ago | (#2481317)

you seem to have got it mixed up with SuSE.

Debian is based just off the coast of Greenland, on average [debian.org] ;-)

Also, Debian's version is currently 2.2, soon to be 3.0, so I'm not sure where you got 5.x from.

Re:Debian based in Germany? (2)

A_Non_Moose (413034) | more than 12 years ago | (#2481437)

Quite possible...been a long day with NT4/Tired Brain/Crack Pipe/Non Stop trouble shooting...or as we call it on a college campus: "Thursday".

(apologies to George Foreman) "I was wrong!"

Doh.

Re:The ultimate irony.. (2)

dvdeug (5033) | more than 12 years ago | (#2481360)

This is massively inaccurate. Debian is not German; it's pretty close to international, with an occasional US bias (and an occasional Japanese bias, if a little rarer.)

Debian has not had a 5.x release; woody will be 3.0.

DeCSS won't be included since Debian is too uncomfortable with the legal aspects, and we'd rather not get ourselves, or CheapBytes or some other distributor in legal trouble. (One of our developers is currently in court over his personal distribution of DeCSS in the US.)

Re:The ultimate irony.. (1)

Sentry21 (8183) | more than 12 years ago | (#2481460)

1) Debian isn't German, it's an international, country-indepenant effort.

2) The DCMA will screw Germans, Japanese, Canadians, etc, the instant they set foot inside the US, and most people want freedom to travel. There are very few countries I can't go to as a Canadian, I'd like the US not to be one of those.

3) Do you mean glibc 5.x? 'Cause there ain't no Debian 5.x out there.

4) Slackware is for people who would rather manage their computers than use them (naah, just kidding; I used to use Slackware too... but then I tried Debian)

5) Debian: it's what your mother would use if it were twenty times easier (wildly inaccurate I thought, but amusing)

6) Debian doesn't even have LAME, BladeEnc, etc. in the package lists, because they don't like walking the line. DeCSS would go against every ounce of common sense anyone in the organization has.

--Dan

No reason an OS needs 6 CDs (1)

badmonkey (29600) | more than 12 years ago | (#2481409)

Is there a good reason debian doesn't fit on one cd? I mean you can tell me its all the included open source, but text files compress really well!What exactly is on these 6 CDs?
Even bloated evil windows is ONE CD!
Am I dumb, or what?

Re:No reason an OS needs 6 CDs (1)

Sloppy (14984) | more than 12 years ago | (#2481449)

Am I dumb, or what?

No, you just forgot that a typical "Linux Distro" is a lot more than just an OS. It's also a ton of apps.

Debian Testing Locales Package (1)

carney1979 (189847) | more than 12 years ago | (#2481454)

I heard a rumour from another Debian fanatic that the testing version of the locales package had been broken.

If true, did it get fixed??
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