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The 2.5 Kernel Tree And Alan Cox

Hemos posted more than 11 years ago | from the moving-forward-off dept.

Linux 247

Motor writes "It seems that (as everyone suspected), the 2.5 Linux kernel tree is close to opening. However, contrary to expectations, 2.4 will not be maintained by Alan Cox, but will instead be handled by Marcelo Tosatti. Thanks to Alan for all his hard work on 2.0 and 2.2."

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247 comments

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um (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#2514749)

Who GIVES a FLYING FUCK?

Re:um (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2514879)

Because my 2.4.8 kernel, in the 'stable' series, with its buggy VM subsystem, was mislabeled. It should have been 2.5.8.

Mandrake Linux 8.1 crashes for me every three days after constant use!

Way to go, guys! Keep up the rushed patching work!

poot (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#2514750)

first poot.

Interesting (-1, Redundant)

genkael (102983) | more than 11 years ago | (#2514751)

I hope this turns out well. Alan has been a great contributor to a worthy cause.

Redundant (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#2514815)

Interesting!

Re:Interesting (-1, Troll)

Cheese Metal Rulez!! (533887) | more than 12 years ago | (#2515059)

How can you say that!? His name rhymes with "cocks" for chrissakes! Are you trying to say all Linux users are gay? Well, are you? It certainly sounds like it. Fucking Nazi Homophobe.

Im sexy. (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#2514753)

Lets have sex.
(First post, just so you know)

Will this continue? (5, Insightful)

Zach` (71927) | more than 11 years ago | (#2514756)

Go read the linux-kernel mailing list archives; at least once every couple of months, someone tries to give Linus a 300K patch, and he rejects it. Linus wants *small* patches, which do specific things, or implement one new feature.

Essentially, the only reason NON-platform-specific stuff gets through faster is because it all goes to Alan Cox, who then stuffs them into his own tree (the -ac* patches). When he decides they're stable enough to pass on, he breaks them up into bite-sized pieces for Linus.

Re:Will this continue? (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#2514790)

Linus wanting small patches is the problem. For Linux to be stable, secure, speedy, and fucking useful, Linus needs about a 7MB patch.

Have a nice day talking to you trees out in your car.

Alan Coix? (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#2514757)

Porn stars really don't have any reason to be in the kernel business, anyhow.

So we can see the changelog, right? (-1, Interesting)

The Turd Report (527733) | more than 11 years ago | (#2514759)

I hope this maintainer will not be as paranoid as Alan with respect to changelogs and the DCMA.

Alan Cox and the DMCA (4, Interesting)

PM4RK5 (265536) | more than 11 years ago | (#2514763)

Is this partially do to his over-zealousness [slashdot.org] and/or fears concerning the DMCA?

It is a sad day, if US laws are scaring off foreign OSS coders.

Alan (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#2514766)

I would love to suck on both of your Cox.

12th post (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#2514771)

And we love Heather

VM is the reason? (0, Troll)

cwilson (45570) | more than 11 years ago | (#2514773)

Perhaps Alan just could not bring himself to maintain the stable 2.4 tree with the new 2.4 VM (Andrea), given his stated preference for the improved older 2.4 VM (Rik)?

Re:VM is the reason? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2514877)

I was wondering the same thing? Does this make me a troll or an illiterate? :(

Just so you know (-1, Redundant)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#2514774)

The word "and" should not be capitalized when used in a title. Please change accordingly.

Re:Just so you know (-1)

DivineOb (256115) | more than 11 years ago | (#2514786)

yeah, and my cock should be erect as I stuff it into your asshole, but what can you do? Fucking health insurance doesn't cover viagra :/

Re:Just so you know (-1, Troll)

CmdrTaco on on (532959) | more than 11 years ago | (#2514829)

if it is flacid, you can poke it in using a winkle-poker

Re:Just so you know (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#2514793)

you must be a newbie here. At slasdot, alot of stuf is spellled wrong. that inkludes comments And news storys.

Re:Just so you know (0, Offtopic)

Derwen (219179) | more than 11 years ago | (#2514812)

The word "and" should not be capitalized when used in a title. Please change accordingly.

Whilst not wishing to condone the generally apalling standard of English found on Slashdot (& that's just in my posts ;-) I think you may be a little confused.

Rules of correct use of English are not prescriptive. They are guidelines, helping to ensure one is understood. Bad English is difficult to understand English. Your point, sir, is mere nitpicking.

Respectfully,
- Derwen

Re:Just so you know (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#2514837)

Shut The Fuck Up.

You like to suck ostrich dick while rubbing elephant tits.

Re:Just so you know (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2514880)

is that even possible?

Re:Just so you know (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2515049)

Oh yes... I mean, how would I know?

Alan Cox hijacked development (0, Troll)

euroderf (47) | more than 11 years ago | (#2514776)

I am glad that Alan Cox has left off developing the 2.4 series kernel, for it seems he was using his position for a political agenda [adequacy.org] . The previous article reveals how he used his position as kernel maintainer to make his political position on the DMCA clear.


I am not comfortable with someone in such a powerful and important position in the linux community using his position for his own personal agenda. I think he should have resigned back then, and am glad he has stepped down now.


Although I must make clear I do not like the DMCA, it is still clear to me that such a conflict of interest and abuse of a supposedly monarchal position above such political realities is very wrong indeed.

Re:Alan Cox hijacked development (2)

Teancom (13486) | more than 11 years ago | (#2514806)

"Personal" agenda? If you call "the rights of all americans and people who interact with americans" personal, the yes, I guess that description fits. However, unless you think *any* use of "power" to further the common good is "conflict of interest" and "abuse of ... position", I hardly think you have a case. I do think you are mistaking someone using their "power" for evil with someone using their power for good.

Basically, get off your high horse and let the man fight the good fight....

IHBT and HAND (1, Flamebait)

Teancom (13486) | more than 11 years ago | (#2514824)

Ah. My troll detector should have gone off, but unfortunetly, I didn't bother looking at your other posts until after hitting submit. For those of you who also thought a sub-100 UID wouldn't be trolling, read the following comment.

http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=23078&cid=24 87 103

You'll have to c&p 'cuz I'm lazy and long urls never work with /. anyways.....

Re:IHBT and HAND (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2514876)

Um, that links to an empty article; do you have a different link or the text of the article you meant us to look at?..

Re:Alan Cox hijacked development (2, Troll)

Reality Master 101 (179095) | more than 11 years ago | (#2514843)

So if I have a personal agenda that all people should be Christians, and I decide to use my position as a kernel maintainer to espouse my views, you have no problem with that? You would have no problem with my putting my opinion in the kernel source code?

There is a proper time and a proper place for these things.

Re:Alan Cox hijacked development (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2514975)

Thats doubtful. You'd be called a fascist and drummed out in a big hurry I'm sure. Unfortunately, the biggest supporters of people having Freedom of speech are also very unwilling to listen (or ignore) the viewpoints of others who oppose them in other areas. Not to say that either is correct, on the contrary, both sides of the Liberal / Conservative mindset seem to be flawed by the very idea that they are not able to merely exist in sigularity. Too many people want to require you to change your opinion instead of being able to agree to disagree. The thing that drives me most nuts about /. and the Open Source movement is that there are so damn many zealots. Too bad there weren't more ESR's in the world. :)

Stolen Account (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#2514813)

UID 47 was stolen by an Adquacy.org reader. Adequacy.org is a web site devoted to trolling. This post is intentionally inflammatory (aka a troll) and should be moderated as such.

Re:Alan Cox hijacked development (2, Interesting)

Reality Master 101 (179095) | more than 11 years ago | (#2514823)

Although this is a troll, I STRONGLY support this post. His political views have no place in a development tree. To all of those who think it's OK because they happen to agree with him on the views, how about if kernel maintainers started putting in comments about their pro-life stance, their pro-Christian religious views, or their pro-gun views (at least ESR his views on the latter separate most of the time).

I don't know about anyone else, but I've lost a considerable amount of respect since he started his DMCA ravings. Anyone is entitled to an opinion, but anyone is NOT entitled to abuse their position to foist opinions where they are not needed and/or not wanted.

Re:Alan Cox hijacked development (2, Informative)

damiam (409504) | more than 11 years ago | (#2514842)

All Alan Cox did was to refrain from mentioning something in a changelog because he thought it would be illegal. It's like saying "I won't carry a concealed weapon because it's illegal". It may be your view that it shouldn't be illegal, but that doesn't mean you don't have to follow the law.

Re:Alan Cox hijacked development (1, Troll)

Reality Master 101 (179095) | more than 12 years ago | (#2514861)

Bullshit. He did the equivalent of saying, "Because of my belief that all people should not be allowed to own handguns, I am withholding this information from the changelog because it might upset Eric Raymond and he will come to kill me."

His scenerio was just as absurd and ridiculous. Just because he contrived a way to put politics in the changelog doesn't mean it's OK.

Once again I ask: What if he contrived a way to put politics in the changelog that you DIDN'T agree with? Would it still be OK?

Re:Alan Cox hijacked development (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2514920)

Man, do you need your ass kicked. Obviously they didn't do a good enough job when you were in HS.

Re:Alan Cox hijacked development (2)

Teancom (13486) | more than 12 years ago | (#2514855)

Lets dissect this. Where did his polital views come into play? In the *changelog*. Not the code. Was it irrelevant (i.e., was he refusing to put in an OOM-killer because of pro-life views)? No, it was an extrapolation of how the law is currently written and was directly related to the topic at hand (security). As for his "ravings", iirc that was on the mailing lists and if you don't want people to express their opinions *there*.... Lets just say it ain't gonna happen.

My level of respect for him has gone neither up nor down. I don't see how this was abuse of power any more than Linus saying that clubbing seals is wrong.

Re:Alan Cox hijacked development (3, Interesting)

Reality Master 101 (179095) | more than 12 years ago | (#2514886)

In the *changelog*. Not the code.

Personally, I consider the change log as part of the code.

Was it irrelevant (i.e., was he refusing to put in an OOM-killer because of pro-life views)? No, it was an extrapolation of how the law is currently written and was directly related to the topic at hand (security).

Yes, it was irrelevent. He contrived an absurd scenerio just so he could make a political statement. Put it this way -- why did he do it? Because he was in legitimate danger? No, he did it because he wanted to publicize his political views. A change log is NOT for publicizing your views, no matter what they are.

Re:Alan Cox hijacked development (3, Insightful)

Jason Earl (1894) | more than 12 years ago | (#2514923)

Fah, Kernel developers should do whatever the heck they want, and we should all be grateful. When you start paying Mr. Cox for his work then perhaps you might be able to gain some leverage over how he expresses his opinions. In the meantime, why should anyone listen to you?

Here's an idea. Why don't you code up something half as nifty as whatever Alan will code up over breakfast tomorrow, release it as Free Software for the world to see, and put in your Changelog that Alan is a wanker. Perhaps the people that use your software will care what you have to say.

As far as I am concerned Free Software is a perfectly good medium for espousing your political views. Especially since if you don't like Alan's views you can still use his excellent software without being subject to them.

Re:Alan Cox hijacked development (1)

Reality Master 101 (179095) | more than 12 years ago | (#2514934)

So if he started listing the names and addresses of abortion doctors who he believes should be killed in the Linux changelog, that's hunky dory with you? We should just be grateful to him?

He can do what he wants, and I don't pay attention to his politics. That doesn't mean he isn't an idiot, or that he doesn't damage the cause that he claims to care about. Putting crap like that in the changelog just validates all the stereotypes about open source software -- that it's created by unprofessional freaks.

Re:Alan Cox hijacked development (2)

statusbar (314703) | more than 12 years ago | (#2514964)

Unfortunately, Alan was RIGHT in 'putting that crap in the changelog'. If you don't think so then you do not understand the DMCA. Talk to a lawyer about it. He was right.

Would you rather he break the law?

--jeff

Re:Alan Cox hijacked development (1)

ahde (95143) | more than 12 years ago | (#2515052)

It has nothing to do with the DMCA (see Alan's post above.) The law in question is the PATRIOT law, which is an acronym which I can't remember what it stands for, but was passed just this week -- even mentioned on slashdot, I believe

Re:Alan Cox hijacked development (2, Insightful)

Arondylos (141298) | more than 12 years ago | (#2514990)

Yeah, why is a "to-kill" abortion doctors list different? Because in contrast to such a list, the DMCA *will be* affecting his right to publish open source code (besides, there's an obvious difference in scope).

You assume that he is just having political issues with the DMCA and as a UK citizen, he won't be affected anyway. However, he has strong ties to the US (remember, Red Hat's US-based, and he does work for them) and the Skylarov episode shows that it actually _is_ a possible reason for indictment if you write code that defies some arbitrary rules. This is what the DMCA has been used for.

This is why Alan Cox has all the right in the world, as a kernel maintainer in the global Free Software/Open Source community, to do everything he can to allow him to continue writing code. Fighting the DMCA is not a politically correct thing, it's a necessity for him to keep on working. If it's _also_ what he - coincidentally - believes in, it doesn't change its validity.

Yours Arondylos #8-)

Re:Alan Cox hijacked development (4, Interesting)

dlippolt (100881) | more than 12 years ago | (#2515055)

i totally agree.

my personal feeling is that all the work alan has put in on the kernel project _specifically entitles_ him to highlight some issue _directly relevant_ to continued linux development.

my policy-perspective, assuming a mythical world where linux is a company and i own it, is that political viewpoints should be expressly disallowed in the any part of the source tree, to be reviewed on a case-by-case basis. in this case, his efforts are on-topic and don't qualify so much as an expression company-politics (like backstabbing and jibber jabber) or social-politics (like gun control or christianity) but deal specifically with intellectual-property-politics.

end of story.

as he is one of the helmsman of the linux community i applaud his efforts. that i can run entire companies and isp's, securely, with near 100% uptime without using a single windows server due to his (and the many others) efforts encourages me to listen when he speaks... not jump up and down about gun control.

besides, come on people!!! if you can't get an uncensored copy of the changelog with nothing more than a web/ftp client then you're in the wrong business!

Re:Alan Cox hijacked development (2)

Ami Ganguli (921) | more than 12 years ago | (#2515005)

Yes, it was irrelevent. He contrived an absurd scenerio just so he could make a political statement.

The scenerio is only absurd because nobody is likely to prosecute. That doesn't change the fact that he would have been violating the letter of the DMCA. Documenting a security bug is a violation of current U.S. law if that security is used to protect copyrighted material.

So what should Alan do in this situation. Yes, he can ignore the law and chances are he won't be convicted, but the potential penalty is 5 years in prison and $500,000 [cryogenius.com] . Is it worth the risk? If you think it's worthwhile then you can find the bug and document it, but don't ask somebody else to do it for you.

Re:Alan Cox hijacked development (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2515061)

Let's assume everything you say is true. Why did Mr. Cox continue on to promote the overturning of the DMCA in subsequent posts on the changelog.

If Mr. Cox believed that his posting of that portion of the changelog was violative of the DMCA, he should have expressed his opinion and stopped. Instead, he went further to advocate the overthrow of a duly passed law of another country.

Cox is not a lawyer. I doubt Cox consulted a lawyer. Instead, he chose to take his position and make a political statement about a country for which he is not even a citizen.

Like the previous poster said, if your against the DMCA it seems kind of funny. If you think the DMCA might curtail piracy, its not that funny. If you want to look at other laws, its arguable that Mr. Cox broke his fiduciary duty to his US constituents.

Re:Alan Cox hijacked development (1)

ahde (95143) | more than 12 years ago | (#2515036)

your arguement might be valid, except that you only consider certain views -- conservative, christian, anti-abortion, or pro-right-to-bear-arms -- opposed to the ones you hold as unacceptable.

Re:Alan Cox hijacked development (3, Insightful)

Derwen (219179) | more than 12 years ago | (#2514872)

To all of those who think it's OK because they happen to agree with him on the views, how about if kernel maintainers started putting in comments about their pro-life stance, their pro-Christian religious views, or their pro-gun views

Your argument is not relevant. Religion or gun laws have very little direct impact upon kernel development (for the most part - we can all make up spurious arguments to try and show otherwise). Copyright law has a direct impact not just on the programmers in the country passing the law but also, in the case of the DMCA, on hackers in other countries.

Whether one agrees or disagees with Cox and his tactics, the poloitics involved are affecting the development of Linux (the OS and the kernel) and other Free Software.

- Derwen

Re:Alan Cox hijacked development (4, Insightful)

pbryan (83482) | more than 12 years ago | (#2514972)

... how about if kernel maintainers started putting in comments about their pro-life stance, their pro-Christian religious views, or their pro-gun views ...

In my opinion, his comments were directly applicable to kernel development. Gun control, abortion, and Christian views on the otherhand, seem inapplicable to kernel development.

According to the DMCA, it is illegal to post information about such vulnerabilities, and he took steps necessary to protect himself from prosection under United States federal law should he ever set foot in that country.

Re:Alan Cox hijacked development (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2515001)

Ah yes the crowd chanting "it's only politics" creeps in with their haze of "that doesn't affect us here" spells.
Wake the hell up. DMCA politics is about intellectual property, that's what software IS . These other red herrings you're stinking the place up with (religious political issues) have nothing whatever to do with it. bk425

Re:Alan Cox hijacked development (2)

Chocky2 (99588) | more than 11 years ago | (#2514833)

Alan Cox's contribution to the development of Linux has been significant and undeniable, and his opposition to DMCA quite understandable. The problems solely in his decission to combine the two, even though many would agree with his intensions. The means aren't justified by the ends.

Re:Alan Cox hijacked development (0, Redundant)

Chocky2 (99588) | more than 11 years ago | (#2514849)

Damn, my speling (and gramme^Har) sucks.

Of course it's politics (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2514873)

By saying you are "against the DCMA" you are by nature making a *political* statement. I say this because DCMA is a law and once you start to argure about laws being wrong your are in the domain of politics. Hell, just look at headlines recently on slashdot there's a nice big chunk that have to do with politics.

As, for the artical the author looks like he is fumming because as a US citizen he is being kept in the dark about "secret" kernel changes. The author then goes on to say "with his typical English resentment of the former colonies who have long since outstripped England in world influence". What has this got to do it anyway? Has ANYONE ever heard of Alan acting in this way? I doubt it, infact if Alan was german I can just imagine some Nazi comment in its place. I just stopped reading the article there since this guy is obviously out to slure Alan because he is being inconvienced by a *law* that is active in *his* country. I mean, remember all the non-US servers when we had crypto laws??

Re:Alan Cox hijacked development (1)

budGibson (18631) | more than 12 years ago | (#2514912)

Why is this marked a troll? It's right on target, merely directly critical.

I went to the site listed in the post. That site was comical in its outraged critical tone toward Mr. Cox. However, the ftp site for non-Americans to view the changelog was correctly indicated. Frankly, it was a slap in the face to have to say you were not an American citizen to view the changelog.

Who would file a complaint to prosecute Mr. Cox under the DMCA? No one. Therefore, Mr. Cox's actions can only be viewed as themselves a troll, an unjustified insult.

Re:Alan Cox hijacked development (5, Interesting)

GFD (57203) | more than 12 years ago | (#2514950)

While this is a troll a lot of the posters here are missing the point entirely.

Avoiding jail is not being polical!

You may have the opinion that anything Alan does as a kernel developer/maintainer is not affected by the DMCA and will not result in charges from some over zelous DA, but I seriously doubt there are any lawyers out there that would back you up. There have to be quite a few court rulings before anyone will even have a feel for this.

One of the reasons that everyone calls DMCA bad law is it's total lack of boundaries. This makes it unpredictable law, subject to abuse. While you and I may feel that there would be no justification to jail someone because they worked on CD/DVD drivers that someone else could use to run DECSS(?) is no guarantee for Alan or anyone else that someone won't arrest them and see what the courts say.

Avoiding being someone's legal guinea pig is not being political.

Re:Alan Cox hijacked development (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2514998)

Moderation is amazing. I don't care if you hijacked the ID or if you maintain a troll site, your post is relevant. There are people in this thread that repeat what you say and have been modded up.

Nevertheless, I agree with your position 100%. Open Source seems to have lost its roots. Instead of providing software, it has become a political party. Its chief propaganda machine is LWN, Linux Today, and Slashdot.

Cox, Torvalds, and even Malda believe themselves to be larger than life cult heros. Their disciples won't let you critize their actions, they tell you that you should just leave the premises.

I wonder if Cox's "resignation" is kind of like Torvald's "we aren't fighting a war" rhetoric. I wonder if we can even discuss this possibility before getting IP banned to oblivion.

You got to admire Stallman, he never tried to spin anything. He started a project to mess with copyright law and openly said so. He never had any of this back room spin or cult of personality garbage.

What about the diversity of the kernel team? (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#2514788)

I'm actually quite concerned that the loss of Alan Cox will shift some of the balance in the kernel team. Alan has really done a great job for many years, and we need all sorts of different types of people doing different things in different ways in order to preserve the diversity that has really added a lot of value.

So, who are we going to get to replace Alan Cox? It seems to me that you're going to need Eric Allman or some type of person like that to fill the same roll as Alan has.

why would someone want to maintain an old kernel? (1, Interesting)

Niksie3 (222515) | more than 11 years ago | (#2514795)

It sounds boring to me... Adding new features should be more engaging then fixing bugs and pleasing users.

Cox (-1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#2514797)

Heh heh heh heh he said "cocks" hehe hehe heh heh

MOD THIS UP (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#2514809)

plz

New Maintainer weblog? (3)

strredwolf (532) | more than 11 years ago | (#2514807)

Where's the new maintainer's weblog, so we can track how he's doing?

what the...? (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#2514808)

wait this isn't a story about ipod?

Re:what the...? (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2514921)

and neither is it a story on Heather Donahue

Mirror of the text, site was slowing down.... ;) (5, Redundant)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#2514817)

Linux 2.4, maintenance and succession
Posted 2 Nov 2001 by alan

People will have been wondering about the 2.4 stable kernel progression. Various bizarre rumours in Byte seem to have generated a lot of discussion and rumour. Now that the people concerned are all agreed its time to put the entire roadmap out and make it clear.

Linus will be releasing a 2.4.14 and probably a 2.4.15 finishing off the VM stability work and other rough corners. At that point the 2.5 kernel tree will be opened. There is a lot stuff queued for 2.5. It isn't going to be possible or sensible to throw it all into 2.5.0. One of the tasks is to put changes together in the right order.

Marcelo Tosatti will be the head maintainer over the 2.4 stable kernel tree. This is not the giant change it may seem from the outside. The stable kernel management was and is a group effort. Marcelo and many others have been active in 2.2 and 2.4 stabilisation work. I'll be helping Marcelo with advice when he asks it, and working on feeding him the 2.4 relevant bits of the -ac tree.

I will not be dissappearing from the scene, although I might be a little less visible at times. There are various kernel projects I will be working on as well as spending more time concentrating on Red Hat customer related needs. I'm hopeful that spending more time closer to customers will help provide more insight into where 2.5 needs to be going.

David Weinehall did a great job on 2.0.39 when he took over 2.0 from me.I'm very confident that Marcelo will do a great job on 2.4.

Alan

Philosophical question of the day (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2514919)

If Anonymous Coward had a karma rating, how low would it go?

Re:Philosophical question of the day (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2514966)

low enough to eat your mom's pussy, and that's low!

Re:Mirror of the text, site was slowing down.... ; (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2514984)

The slowdown was a copyright protection measure. You are in violation of the DMCA!

2.5 Here we come (0, Insightful)

dbretton (242493) | more than 11 years ago | (#2514828)

I welcome 2.5! I wish it would come sooner!
This whole VM and severe -ac branching which has occurred truly frightened me. If it persisted, it certainly would have resulted in a fork of sorts.
It seems that Alan has a good understanding of what a release kernel should have, and the types of changes that should occur in such a kernel. Introducing a new VM, as stated before on slushdot, in the middle/end of a stable kernel series, is plain silly.
Come to think of it, I kind of like the idea that Alan is NOT maintaing the stable kernel, for 2 reasons:
1. His talent would be best served on new development of the 2.5 kernel (hey, who doesn't like working on the cool new stuff).
2. In light of his anti-DMCA actions, it would seem that he has no issue with putting Linux up on the firing line to support his politically motivated beliefs. It doesn't matter if you agree with Alan on the DMCA or not, not posting changelog notes like he did was childish and counterproductive to the goal of Linux: world domination through collaboration.

Re:2.5 Here we come (2, Insightful)

BJH (11355) | more than 12 years ago | (#2514951)

2. In light of his anti-DMCA actions, it would seem that he has no issue with putting Linux up on the firing line to support his politically motivated beliefs. It doesn't matter if you agree with Alan on the DMCA or not, not posting changelog notes like he did was childish and counterproductive to the goal of Linux: world domination through collaboration.

Bollocks. What's "childish" about it? The whole reason the DMCA got onto the lawbooks was because people were too bloody complacent - you should be glad that people who aren't even American citizens are concerned enough about it to put up a fight. It might even convince some Americanos to grow a spine and stand up to irrational, corporate-financed laws like the DMCA.

DMCA (5, Insightful)

Alan Cox (27532) | more than 12 years ago | (#2514962)

The DMCA has nothing to do with this btw - and I think given 6 months the US courts will have given the congress the required slap around the head with a wet herring. Until then it pays to be careful

All uncensored change logs are on
http://www.thefreeworld.net for non US citizens. US citizens take their own chances

Re: not posting changelog notes (1)

ahde (95143) | more than 12 years ago | (#2514977)

I thought it was funny.

no alan cox? (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#2514830)

Well I guess that's it for linux. Time for me to move to FreeBSD.

Re:no alan cox? kirk? spock? (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2514857)

What? If Star Trek doesn't have Kirk and Spock, it doesn't have you?

So Long, Alan... (3, Funny)

BoarderPhreak (234086) | more than 12 years ago | (#2514859)

...and thanks for all the herring!

- Tux

Re:So Long, Alan... (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2514864)

Man, you must like ass in the dick.

Re:So Long, Alan... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2514885)

Did you bother to read the article? Sheesh -

"I will not be dissappearing from the scene, although I might be a little less visible at times. There are various kernel projects I will be working on as well as spending more time concentrating on Red Hat customer related needs. I'm hopeful that spending more time closer to customers will help provide more insight into where 2.5 needs to be going."

Re:So Long, Alan... (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2514985)

Since you're a fucking idiot, I'll spell it out for you.

Linus told alan to fuck off. Rather than risk embarrassing himself by forking and finding out no one used his fork, he decided to "concentrate" no RHAT customer needs. Also, red hat fired all their remaining developers.

Last Post (-1, Offtopic)

dbretton (242493) | more than 12 years ago | (#2514868)

Halt! I am AnCow, destroyer of worthy notes, and protector of the Holy Bulletin Board. This board is now under my protection (due to recent redistrictring in the northwest area).
None shall post beyond me! Try, and ye shall perish a death worse than.......death!
Do not Test my unbearable power of Posting Prevention!
I cast the spell of "anti-posta" upon thee! Run, vanquished smidgeon upon the sole of my mighty idiom! Go! Flee!

bwa-hahahahhahaha

Re:Last Post (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2514881)

fuck you

Re:Last Post (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2514889)

fuck you
fuck your mother
fuck your dead sister
fuck your borhter up his ass with a cordless telephone
fuck you up the ass with an elephant tusk
fuck your rotting father's skull in the eye socket
fuck your cat with a coat hanger
fuck your dog with a tire iron
fuck your neighbor in the ear with a hedge trimmer

have a nice DAY!

Re:Last Post (-1)

Trollificus (253741) | more than 12 years ago | (#2514941)

*bends over*

GPL -- nice but inconsistent (-1, Redundant)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2514884)

The most annoying thing about the GPL is the way people (mostly Americans) can't bring themselves
to admitting that it's a half-baked socialist ideal, because they don't even understand socialism,
let alone dare claim support for it. Nay, even communist, because RMS believes all software *must
* have this licence.

The GPL argument seems to be based on, "software has no monetary value because it can be easily co
pied". If software were an expression of an idea that only existed on non-replicable medium, it wo
uld have such value, right? Excellent. All I have to do then is to make a Star Trek Replicator (I'
m sure it will happen eventually) and, by RMS, _everything_ replicable will lose all financial val
ue.

The placement of software on a bit of media is no different than Coca Cola saying, "hey, this woul
d be a cool mix of sugar and goo!" and mixing the ingredients together into a can. Or a carpenter
saying "hm, I know how to make a more sturdy chair" and building it with his tools. Each is the se
quence idea -> implementation of idea.

I can't possibly fathom why ideas should be free. (that is to say, the mere product of man's mind)
but the expression of those ideas (say in a chair, the product of man's mind and hands) may not.
Worse, why campaign for ideas to be free, but let those who restrict their ideas (the majority of
companies) use their ideas for further restriction?

Trying to figure out an answer:

1. Expression takes more effort? No it doesn't. Thinking the ideas often takes more effort than im
plementing them, e.g. developing a new drug compared to mixing the ingredients.

2. Research into new ideas costs no money? Ha. This might explain why GNU / Linux is so uninnovati
ve, and its main role is to play catchup. Yes, Linux has some wonderful efficiences, say in the in
terrupt processing code. But there are never any *big new ideas*. Research takes much money and ti
me, the gathering of data, the use of equipment, and the use of people who have to eat and be hous
ed, etc.

3. Ideas can be copied without cost. No, someone pays for the communications medium. Usually Big B
ad Corporations, unless you wish to free the implementation of ideas too. _Cheaply_, maybe. You te
ll a man stuck in the middle of Africa, "Dammit! Just download the source! It's Free!" and he may
ask you for (food..) education in the English language, a computer and an Internet connection. Fre
e software may lower the barrier to enlightenment, but only for rich Westerners with lots of time
on their hands to learn.

Consistency please!

Linus & Cox conspiracy (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2514888)

Cox does not want to maintain because he does not get to Cox linus's ass. Linus is no more gay, and Cox is going back to his gay roots: BSD, along with his buddies Kirk and other guy.

just so you know Windows XP is choice of REAL MEN.

Alan Cox is doing the right thing (5, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2514891)

AC's has shown great skill in pulling together rapid/major changes. Clearly his help is needed with the 2.5 series more than 2.4. But there is also the part that people don't like to talk openly about which is: how much can other commerical GNU/Linux distributors claim that the offical kernel development is a puppet of Red hat?

While AC has done a great job of judging the priorities of the Linux community as a whole over the priorities of Red hat, there is still the question of how much his employeement at RH effects him. Anotherwords, for example, Ext3/JBD is a kernel modification that Red hat is very much pushing. It now appears in all Red hat v7.2 kernels. Also, the Ext3/JBD modifications have appeared for a while in the AC patches. But if these modification started appearing in the 2.4 kernel, others might question if it is because it is truely ready to be in 2.4 or if Red hat is using their AC position to strong arm submittions. Clearly IBM and SGI would also like to see their file system additions in the vanilla 2.4 kernel series. Having to justify the addition of one over the other shouldn't have to be AC's job.

So, I believe Alan Cox is doing the best technical and *political* choice for the Linux community as a whole. :)

Re:Alan Cox is doing the right thing (-1, Redundant)

Spooge Demon (413208) | more than 12 years ago | (#2514944)

Anotherwords, for example, Ext3/JBD is a kernel modification ...


That's In other words you *stinking* retard.

Re:Alan Cox is doing the right thing (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2514965)

We all know what he meant, you dumb pig-fucker.

Ext3/JBD (5, Informative)

Alan Cox (27532) | more than 12 years ago | (#2514955)

The ext3 stuff is scheduled for merging soon. The VM is simply more important, and as of 2.4.14pre7 basically works (there are a couple of corner cases left where it fails) - and is much faster than the older Riel VM. That was a concluded experiment anyway

RH doesn't get to decide what I feed to Linus,and Linus wouldn't listen if they did. XFS is 2.5 material certainly. JFS I don't know - Im watching it with great interest.

Alan

Starstruck ;-) (5, Funny)

Sir_Real (179104) | more than 12 years ago | (#2514976)

You know your a geek when a post by Alan Cox is more exciting to you than say, meeting the President.

Andrew

I will never close this window! (0, Offtopic)

A nonymous Coward (7548) | more than 12 years ago | (#2515056)

I want AC's message up there for all posterity. Maybe I will capture it and make it my root picture.

Re:Alan Cox is doing the right thing (2)

SurfsUp (11523) | more than 12 years ago | (#2514986)

While AC has done a great job of judging the priorities of the Linux community as a whole over the priorities of Red hat, there is still the question of how much his employeement at RH effects him.

This has absolutely nothing to do with Alan's employment at Redhat, don't be silly.
Furthermore, it has nothing to do with politics.

You may have cause and effect reversed (5, Insightful)

JoeBuck (7947) | more than 12 years ago | (#2515029)

Anyone who's followed Alan Cox for a while would laugh at the notion that Alan could be a Red Hat puppet. The day he has a falling out with Red Hat, he'll instantly get a substantial amount of money from some other company. If anything, Alan's involvement in a company that has to support users makes him a better judge of many things than someone in Linus's more isolated position.

If Red Hat is pushing a particular technical direction for Linux, it's quite likely that the reason for the push is because of the expert opinions of the many kernel hackers that work for them as to which code is mature enough to support.

New boss (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2514893)

So Marcelo Tosatti is the new made man ? I thought the books were closed...

-Tony Soprano

Alan rules. (5, Insightful)

Forge (2456) | more than 12 years ago | (#2514913)

Always has. Always will (I hope).

Most people don't know this but in the weekly kernel traphic he is usualy listed #1 in volume of messages. He also subscibes to and discuses important isues in many other places from slashdot.org to the kde-licensing mailing list.

BTW: Read his diary [linux.org.uk] . That's how I found out that he is a GNU fundamentalist :). He also is a practical man in terms of software use. I.e. He still disputes Linus' edict that binary only kernel modules are alowed but at the same time he didn't force Telsa to switch to Linux right away. (She uses it now).

Speaking of Telsa. Her site "The more accurate diary. Really. [linux.org.uk] " should be requird reading for anyone dateing a Linux geek with serius intentions towards that geek.

Re:Alan rules. (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2514999)

Most people don't know this, but in weekly goatse.cx traffic, he is usually listed #1 in number of page views. He also subscribes to and discusses gay sex in many other places from public restrooms to bath houses.

Why? (-1)

Trollificus (253741) | more than 12 years ago | (#2514916)

I guess Alan had to give in and get a real job.
Being a filthy open source hippy is fine and dandy, but eventually you have to pay the bills.

We were suprised as well (4, Interesting)

gallir (171727) | more than 12 years ago | (#2514948)

Curious we discussed this issue in our LUG web page [bulmalug.net] (in Spanish) three days ago. We were surprised Alan seems not to want the job, and Marcelo Tosatti didn't answer publically.

OTH, Linus continues assuming is Alan the responsible [bulmalug.net] (Spanish too).

Wait a minute.... (0)

arfo (525373) | more than 12 years ago | (#2514978)

What about Joe Sixpack?

Re:Wait a minute.... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2515033)

usurped by Joe 12 pack...

Time Off?? (4, Interesting)

HamNRye (20218) | more than 12 years ago | (#2514989)

A tip for the Newbies, this is not the first time... Alan has left the project before, generally around the same time in the development cycle. I think Alan is really into the "Cutting edge" features, and once kernel development slows to the quibbling about minutae, as it has now, I really think it takes alot out of him.

Alan also seems to work on HIS kernel, and then let everybody use it. He never intended to be such a dominant voice, no matter how strong his opinions. I think when good technical discussions between he and Linus get publicized as being interminable rifts (which believe me they are not) he tends to step back, being the less media visible member and wanting to avoid the appearance of a disastrous controversy.

And quite frankly, how many of us work 6 months on our hobby and then take some time off?? I sure do...

Wait until the Kernel gets exciting again, AC'll be back.

~Hammy
nothing4sale.org
WindowsXP was crashing like a monkey driving a Pinto.

Where did linus say this on lkml?? (2, Interesting)

selmer (37218) | more than 12 years ago | (#2515003)

All I've read this far was Linus mentioning handing over the 2.4-tree to Alan, I've never heard Linus talk about handing 2.4-stuff over to other people. Last thing I read was that he said it was up to Alan which VM he'd use for 2.4 after he got it.

Costumer service?? (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2515058)

BS...RH is removing developers to make them produce money...sounds like trouble.
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