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Antarctic Ozone Hole Leveling Off

Hemos posted more than 12 years ago | from the getting-smaller dept.

Science 353

twistedfuck writes: "An Irish Time article reports that the size of the hole in the antartican ozone layer is levelling off and should begin reducing in size. It seems like it should be welcome news but it is tempered by the fact that more UV radiation will reach the southern hemisphere this year because the hole will persist longer. Unfortunately I can not find any details regarding the NOAA report on their website." Update: 11/06 17:31 GMT by H :Thanks to Isaac Lewis, NOAA Sysadmin and Slashdot reader, for pointing out more information, as well as pointing out the ozonelayer site.

cancel ×

353 comments

Hooray for regulation? (4, Insightful)

bonzoesc (155812) | more than 12 years ago | (#2526487)

Are we to believe that this reduction in size is a result of global regulation of CFCs, or could it possibly just be part of a natural cycle? Too bad we didn't get satellites before styrofoam.

Re:Hooray for regulation? (1)

EdgeSmash (446029) | more than 12 years ago | (#2526512)

Well, it is hard to tell, but certainly reducing CFC production can't hurt. Only thing we can do is sit back and wait.

Re:Hooray for regulation? (-1, Flamebait)

TypoDaemon (43268) | more than 12 years ago | (#2526520)

can't hurt anyone but the legitimate businesses who have to pay out the ass for environmental regulations that do nothing.

i'm sure that's what you meant.

or not. we all know that big businesses are evil anyways.

Michael Sims: What You Aren't Supposed to Know (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2526571)

Michael Sims:
What You Aren't Supposed to Know

Daddy's Little Boy

Having killed his mother in childbirth, Michael was left with only his father to raise him-- a man with well-documented social disorders and sick sexual fetishes.

During his youth, Michael Sr. was known by the nickname "Mikey the Twink," a reference to his thin, hairless body, and chest that was smaller than his waist, like a young boy's. The crowd Mikey the Twink ran with
was more than just a little questionable. How many times would you have been allowed to arrive home at midnight with your clothes torn and semen leaking out of your bruised mouth? Well, this was San Francisco,
and evidently Michael Sr. got away with this behavior while he was growing up gay on the mean streets of the Faggot Sex Capitol of the world.

Fastforward to middle age, and this homosexual cock-lusting faggot is left with a son to rear. No wonder the Michael Sims we all know is so angry and apt to censor!

Growing Up Fast

By the age of 13, Michael Sims had endured years of sexual abuse at the hands of his father and other realtives-- let's be frank about this!

Michael was forced to suck his father's erect penis while his "Aunt" Jack would penetrate Michael's anus with his 5" thick throbbing meatpole. All while "Father" O'Reilly (yes, the same publisher Tim O'Reilly of
Open Source fame) videotaped the gay orgies with a tripod as he sodomozed young Michael's penis with his hot tongue or made Michael eat his hairy Irish asshole out!!!

Occasionally a ruddy streetman named Eric would join in the festivities and rub his crooked dick on Michael's smooth face and cover the lad in cumshot as he dribbled Jägermeister all over himself, singing the praises
of "Open Sauce" and being "surprised by cock."

Rebellion

Too many years of cum-baths and anal sex had gotten to Michael. In the wee hours of April 19, 1993, at the tender age of 16, Michael Sims secretly boarded a plane to Germany to join the Hitler Youth, hoping to
escape the the excess sodomy in his life while gaining some discipline in the process. Little did Michael know that he was going from the frying pan and into the flames.

Faggotry Unbridled: ESR, Teutonic Gas Baron

Upon entering the "Hitler" Youth, Michael smiled for the first time in his cock-filled life. He was surrounded by boys of all ages, and his cock-lust-- cultivated by years of faggotry at his father's hand-- blossomed
in the harsh environment of the Hitler Youth. Michael progressed rapidly through the ranks until one day, he was called upon to serve in the elite SS. And then the bottom of Michael's world fell out.

Michael was greeted not by Adolf Hitler (long dead by now) or any other Nazi. Michael Sims was instead greeted by a homosexual face from the past-- the insidious, ruddy complexion of ESR, the "streetman named
Eric" that had fornicated him years ago! Yes, ESR was the dastardly Deutsch Gas Baron, and the "Hitler" Youth was nothing but a faggot recruiting front to satiate the twink-lust of ESR!

The Long Road to Freedom

For the next six years, Michael Sims was almost constantly involved in some sort of homosexual activity-- either sampling the famous gay bars of München (Munich), training recruits new to Raymond's Youth
Corps (the facade of Hitler having since been dropped), or satisfying ESR's bottomless hunger for gay faggot cum-lusting sex. Michael was even one of the first Germans to contract HIV, the virus that causes
AIDS.

ESR's stake in Michael increased, as did Michael's lust for ESR's thin erect cock, until finally Michael had been made a general in ESR's diabolic Gas Barrony. And it was at this time that Michael was given his
very own life-long mission.

Censorware.org

ESR needed someone that could take the literary world in their faggot hand and turn it to use for ESR and his worlde-wide Petroleum Fifedom: propoganda for Crude Oil and Faggotry! Who better than Michael?

His first objective was to find a platform with which to gather mainstream literary credibility... Enter Censorware.org, which Michael infiltrated and later destroyed. Read the story of censorship, terrorism and ransom
here. And do not forget it.

Slashdot.org

With Censorware destroyed, Michael's name got out into the Nazi and Faggot literary scenes, leading to the day that he received a phone call from none other than Rob Malda, of Slashdot.org, whose staff were the
most desperate of homosexuals and whose editors were most Nazi-like in nature. Rob Malda was offering Michael Sims a job.

Present Day

Michael had finally found his home and means of completing his homosexual mission. To this day he enjoys gay anal sex all day and all night, and a way to censor the truth-bringers, like me, on a whim...

written: 2001/07/02
updated: n/a

trollaxor@mac.com [goatse.cx]

Re:Hooray for regulation? (3, Informative)

c_jonescc (528041) | more than 12 years ago | (#2526580)

Last summer I did some educational outreach for the lab I work for, at a day-camp for science kids, and the topic was ozone one day. If I remember correctly regulation can't possibly account for this, because the CFC's have a destructive lifetime in the atmosphere for something on the order of 100 years. ie. the little buggers break apart O-3 for a long time after we stop using them. Even if we stopped all CFC use today, we wouldn't see any atmospheric effect for many decades. Begging the question: why IS the hole reducing?

Re:Hooray for regulation? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2526588)

Gee golly wiz... you mean hair spray isn't responsible for global atmospheric change? Who woulda thunk it?

Re:Hooray for regulation? (1)

c_jonescc (528041) | more than 12 years ago | (#2526618)

That's not what I said. Yes CFC's ARE responsible for ozone depletion, but halting use will not show immediate results. That does not make it unimportant in the long term. I would say quite the opposite.

Re:Hooray for regulation? (5, Interesting)

legoboy (39651) | more than 12 years ago | (#2526632)

No, but it is what the preponderance of the evidence suggests.

a) Upon seeing problems, we've heavily cut back on all sorts of emissions under the belief that it will fix the problem.
b) Results of a) (above) will take sixty more years to manifest.
c) Problem is disappearing long before results of a) are known.

Therefore, perhaps a) was a faulty assumption that costs businesses billions annually, and the ozone hole is really just a cyclical thing?

That said, lower emissions are good, if only for two reasons - one, so that whilst canoeing the Indian Arm of the Fraser River, I don't know that Vancouver is (that way) due to the brown sky. Two, because they *do* seem to be responsible for all sorts of human respiratory problems. You know, if environmentalists weren't all a bunch of crackpots who use pseudoscience to justify whatever their jihad of the day is, I'd probably identify myself as one.

PS - The ICE at the NORTH POLE is MELTING!!! Oh NO!!! ... Oh wait, that happens all the time?

Actually (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2526690)

From what I understand, CFC's are no worse than the chemicals that replaced them. As I understand it, Some company had a patent on the substance used as a delivery mechanism in aerosol sprays... but their patent was about to run out on one of their most widespread chemical products, losing them lots of money.

So, what would anybody who knows they can buy off the people with a nice environmental scare do?

They spread a massive chunk of propaganda and toss out some lobbyists. Meanwhile, they develop a product that is almost identical to the original, and just as bad for the environment (reactively).

So, now nothing has changed for the good or bad of the environment, but that company got to remain the exclusive source of chemicals for spray cans.

Re:Hooray for regulation? (0, Offtopic)

Kaki Nix Sain (124686) | more than 12 years ago | (#2526636)

Your use of the phrase "begging the question" is confusing. Due to similar uses, that phrase is loosing its meaning as a term for a certain type of reasoning and coming to mean "raising the question" for which we already have a perfectly good phrase. There is no need to diminish a nice piece of terminology and risk ambiguity to say what you meant.

Re:Hooray for regulation? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2526709)

[...] that phrase is loosing its meaning [...] There is no need to diminish a nice piece of terminology and risk ambiguity to say what you meant.

The same could be said of loosing/losing ;)

fp (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2526489)

fp!

Re:fp (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2526581)

Trollaxor Asks...

What kind of aftershave do you prefer?

Alan Cox <Alan.Cox@linux.org [mailto] > responds...

"Technically, I don't use aftershave. I have quite a healthy beaver growing off of my face."

"However, me and the boys-- the young Open Source fans I like to take to the pub for a few pints and then back to my flat after they're dead-drunk-- like to eat each others' feces. I suppose you could then call the diarhea that gets caught up in my beard as aftershave, since I love its scent so well and leave it on all day."

Rob Malda (CmdrTaco) <malda@slashdot.org [mailto] > responds...

"I usually prefer Hemos's semen. There's nothing like rubbing it all over my face, especially when it's nice and warm and fresh. Besides, what man can't resist that cum-odor? If I am lucky enough to be wearing Hemo's gunk, I notice I get hit on a lot mre at the bars I go to. What other afershave can make me a homosexual cock-lust faggot magnet?"

"Yeah, I definitely prefer Hemos's semen..."

ESR <esr@thyrsus.com [mailto] > responds...

"I used to religiously wear a product called, ironically enough, 'Money.' I haven't been able to find any in a long while, even at VA Linux's bathouses. Who knows where it went?"

"Now I just count the Jägermeister I dribble on myself in drunken stupors as aftershave and leave it at that..."

evil_spork <evil_spork@hotmail.com [mailto] > responds...

"After my usual nightly routine of smoking crack from a Tab can, snorting heroin off a dumpstered toilet seat, and being fucked by my dealer Rocco until i throw up cum, I usually bury my face in my pillow and cry for my mommy until the sun comes up."

"Then, before I go to work, Rocco rapes me in the mouth at gunpoint to see me off. I have a goatee, so it absorbs the scent of blood, jism, stomach acids, crack cocaine, Bounce dryer sheets, and man-musk. I work in a mailroom with a bunch of wetbacks so no one notices."

RMS <rms@stallman.org [mailto] > responds...

"Ah, I wonder if you're mistaken... You see, I haven't shaved since the founding of the Free Software Foundation in 1984. I have no use for aftershave-- in fact, it looks like there's a God-damned baby goat surgically attached to my face. Some liken my beard to a giant vulva as well: hairy, with a stinking hole in the center."

"I have no use for aftershave..."

Steven Katros responds...

"I like cinnamon perfume, don't you?

"It's a special little scent that reminds me of cooking for friends, enjoying warm cidar and a good book on a cold Autumn day, and hot sex with cinnamon anus lube!"

written: 2001/06/29
updated: n/a

mirror (0, Redundant)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2526490)

Reduction in size of hole in ozone

Size of the annual hole which forms over the Antarctic has levelled off, say researchers.
Dick Ahlstrom reports
The ozone hole over the Antarctic this year is smaller than last year's but is still colossal. At 26 million square kilometres, it is about the size of North America.

The US National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration said this week that observations suggested that the size of the annual hole, which forms over the Antarctic during its spring, has levelled off and will slowly decline in the coming years.

Researchers in New Zealand have warned, however that the 2001 hole will probably persist longer. This, they say, will allow more ultraviolet (UV) radiation to reach the earth in the southern hemisphere.

Too much UV disturbs the growth of plant life. It increases the risk of cataracts and skin cancer in humans.

The hole is caused after the release over many years of chlorine compounds that drifted into the upper atmosphere. There, they react with sunlight over the Antarctic and Arctic to destroy ozone, a gas which absorbs UV radiation coming from the sun.

Last year's hole reached a record 30 million square kilometres.

Repeated depletions over the years have reduced the total ozone overhead by about 15 per cent in temperate parts of the southern hemisphere.

ESR: Surprised by Cock (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2526592)

ESR: Surprised by Cock

A few hours ago, I learned that I am now (at least in theory) absurdly gay.

I was at my machine, my 386 with 4 megs of RAM running Linux, masturbating to pictures of RMS, when I got an email congratulating me on the success of Slashdot. I was working on my latest small project-- a clever little text parser that takes input from the user and puts it in a little cartoon-style word balloon coming out of-- get this!-- a giant, erect ASCII penis's bulging head! Hahaha! It's called COCKSAY. You can download it here [geocities.com] .

"Congratulations? That's interesting," said I to myself. "I didn't think Slashdot was coming out until tomorrow." And I oughtta know; I'm on VA's Board of Directors, recruited by Larry Augustin himself, to be VA Linux's "corporate conscience," and it's public record that I hold a substantial share in the company's semen pool. I tooled on over to Linux Today, chased a link like it was a naked hippy's ass-- and discovered that Rob Malda had taken the fast action we had discussed at the last board meeting. Slashdot had come out first thing that morning with a headline on its own site-- and I had become the figurehead of the Gay Faggot Slashdot Empire while I wasn't looking.

Well, that didn't last long. In the next two hours, 369 VA employees also disclosed that they had AIDS, leaving me with a bit of the proverbial semen on my face.

You may wonder why I am talking about this in public. The first piece of advice your friends will give you, if it looks like you're about to come out of the closet, is: keep quiet! It's really nobody else's business-- you don't want to look like you're lusting for cock, though you may want to be deluged by an endless succession of men dressed up as Navy sailors demanding blowjobs from you; fat, hairy men (the bears) wanting to fuck you in the ass; and sweet, young, hairless boys offering you the beauty of their youth.

Trouble with the "keep it quiet" theory is that I've always solicited gay male faggot sex in a very public way. When you're already a media figure, like myself, and your name is on the Faggot Manifesto your whole organization chose to use to come out, and email from friends and journalists starts coming in like crazy as the gayness of your empire breaks records even on the first day, playing it coy swiftly ceases to look like a viable option.

But it wouldn't be fair to dissemble. I serve the gay community. I'm wealthy today because my efforts to spread faggotry and venereal diseases on behalf of that community helped infiltrate the business world and earned the trust of a lot of young, naive boys. Fairness to the twinks

written: 2001/06/20
updated: 2001/06/27

trollaxor@kike.il [goatse.cx]

Where has this been proved ? (1)

javaDragon (187973) | more than 12 years ago | (#2526648)

Where is the evidence of the increase of human skin cancers due to "ozone hole" ?

Re:Where has this been proved ? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2526696)

The article which is going to be published very, very soon, is by a man from Punta Arnus named Ybarra. The "Evidence" he presents is over a long period of time, analyzing cases specificaly from direct hospital reports. He is going to publish this article in a referred medical journal. I believe that its being finalized right now, and its going to prove the case, rather convincingly. Other doctors who pre-peer reviewed the article called it "Dynamite" and "Very well done."

I will post the URL for you to see, and quite possiblly be able to send you the article pre-publication for your review. I am assuming that you are familar with the analisys of subcutatieous carinoma, and will be able to judge the evidence on its merits and technical accuracy.

killmofasta"AT"hotmail"DOT"com.

Re:Where has this been proved ? (3, Informative)

f00k_Krm (534521) | more than 12 years ago | (#2526719)

Where is the evidence of the increase of human skin cancers due to "ozone hole" ?

Check cancer rates between Pennsylvania, USA and Sydney, Australia. I know this is far from a bulletproof arguement, for maybe Aussies are naturally more prone to skin cancer, or spend more time outdoors (which they do), or they use a sunblock which mutates them into sun cancer prone mutant freaks. But the (abeit weak) arguement some people say is that in the land down under there is mommothian awareness of skin cancer, everyone uses sun block, hats and that disgusting blue crap you put on your nose, there are advertisements all the time for sun awareness (remember that egg me no fry ad? Yes!), and here in the good old US of A we suffice with those annoying no-life weather channel dorks to tell us to put on a hat. I have lived in both countries for a decent (over 4 years) amount of time and the amount of people here in the US who care about skin cancer is miniscule compared to Aust. Yet (and the reason for that) rates are still higher down there. We are both about on the +/-40 degree latitude mark. This evidence is circumstantial at best but I'm sure someone else can post up a more scientific explanation for it (please?)

Just what I think, thats all

For Those That Have Been Slashdotted (-1, Redundant)

Peridriga (308995) | more than 12 years ago | (#2526493)

Reduction in size
of hole in ozone

-----

Size of the annual hole which forms over the Antarctic has levelled off, say researchers.
Dick Ahlstrom reports
The ozone hole over the Antarctic this year is smaller than last year's but is still colossal. At 26 million square kilometres, it is about the size of North America.

The US National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration said this week that observations suggested that the size of the annual hole, which forms over the Antarctic during its spring, has levelled off and will slowly decline in the coming years.

Researchers in New Zealand have warned, however that the 2001 hole will probably persist longer. This, they say, will allow more ultraviolet (UV) radiation to reach the earth in the southern hemisphere.

Too much UV disturbs the growth of plant life. It increases the risk of cataracts and skin cancer in humans.

The hole is caused after the release over many years of chlorine compounds that drifted into the upper atmosphere. There, they react with sunlight over the Antarctic and Arctic to destroy ozone, a gas which absorbs UV radiation coming from the sun.

Last year's hole reached a record 30 million square kilometres.

Repeated depletions over the years have reduced the total ozone overhead by about 15 per cent in temperate parts of the southern hemisphere.

I Have Relenquished My Linux Duties (-1, Flamebait)

alan cox on (534510) | more than 12 years ago | (#2526601)

Hey gang, Alan Cox here again.

I wanted to let everyone know that I am discontinuing my work on the Linux TCP/IP stack. After admitting to myself that it sux, I felt I was disservicing the community with my niggardly code.

I recommend using FreeBSD [saltire.org] , NetBSD [saltire.org] , OpenBSD [saltire.org] , or even Darwin [saltire.org] , which now compiles and runs under x86. The BSD family of OSes all have much better TCP/IP performance than Linux. Solaris [saltire.org] is offered by Sun [saltire.org] for cost of media for non-commercial uses, as is SCO's OpenServer [saltire.org] and Compaq's Tru64 UNIX [saltire.org] (formerly As much as it pains me to say this, [saltire.org] Windows NT 4.0 [saltire.org] and Windows 2000 [saltire.org] (aka Windows NT 5.0) are great network OSes, with a built-in GUI no less. And as bad as the GUI is in WinNT4 and Win2K, it's a Hell of a lot better than the crusty, poorly-written crap like GNOME [saltire.org] and KDE [saltire.org] and the window managers avaiable for them.

In fact, I think even the HURD [saltire.org] is a better solution than Linux at this point. Even though it's only released at version .002++d11, its networking scheme blasts Linux's out of the toilet...

I have to go now, as heavy as my heart is, as it's time for my monthly bath. I hope no one is uber-upset by this news; they shouldn't be, as this is a step forward for Linux. Perhaps without my substandard, slavish attempts at being L33T and defecating code, the kernel and its networking performance will benefit from a real programmer and not a DGH (Dirty GNU Hippy) like me...

Thank you.

Antarctic (3, Funny)

Rura Penthe (154319) | more than 12 years ago | (#2526494)

Pleeease can you spell it right? :) I swear it isn't hard!

Re:Antarctic (0, Funny)

bonzoesc (155812) | more than 12 years ago | (#2526500)

Now now - we hear on slashdot spell fonetically. None of your fansee spellings will be found hear.

Re:Antarctic (2)

PD (9577) | more than 12 years ago | (#2526682)

I think you are mistaken. The citizens of the Antarctic prefer to be called Antarticanesians.

Re:Antarctic (1)

dbolger (161340) | more than 12 years ago | (#2526697)

Yeah? Well, the papers called the Irish Times too, but most of us here on Slashdot have learned not to point such things out. Years of CmdrTaco have taught us a lesson ;)

Re:Antarctic (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2526714)

Ah. I might point out that the years have not taught you the difference between "paper's" which is the contraction you should have used, and "papers" which is the plural. You see the mote in your brothers eye yet miss the beam in your own. Or, on a less biblical note, you're a stupid fuck.

first troll tuesday post...? (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2526499)

and there is a story about HOLES...???

first linux is gay post (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2526523)

first linux is gay post

Junk Science (0)

SpIKeAKAThEONe (534505) | more than 12 years ago | (#2526555)

It is BS that the hole in the ozone was formed by CFCs because the people that said that had done no reaserch on it. You can check it out on junkscience.com or buy the book Scilensing Science.

Size will decline? (2, Interesting)

Man of E (531031) | more than 12 years ago | (#2526506)

I don't know much about ozone and such, but why would the size of the hole start to decline? Are we producing additional ozone that could somehow refill the hole? Is the remainder of the ozone layer spreading out to fill the gap?
Are there any meteorologists/ecologists out there who know how this works?

Re:Size will decline? (5, Insightful)

dragons_flight (515217) | more than 12 years ago | (#2526569)

Sunlight naturally converts some oxygen to ozone in the upper atmosphere. Problem is that when CFCs and other chemicals are present, they eat up ozone far faster than it is typically produced.

Ozone is harder to produce and easier to break down when it is cold, which is one reason ozone is at its lowest levels over the poles in winter (also when there is a deficit of sunlight). The poles are also especially vulnerable because global wind patterns circle around them rather then refreshing the air. Even the most stubborn air pollutants will break down or become absorbed by the environment if we stop pumping them out and give the Earth time to get back to normal.

Re:Size will decline? (1)

Malc (1751) | more than 12 years ago | (#2526575)

I think that most of the ozone that we make doesn't make it to the upper atmosphere. I believe that the ozone up there comes about via some other process. However, it was believed that globally released CFCs (e.g. from old fridges) were destroying the ozone faster than it was being produced. CFCs are very long lasting. The ban on CFCs (10-15 years ago???) means that the CFC levels in the atmosphere should start to fall, and with this fall, naturally produced ozone should be able to keep up.

Re:Size will decline? (1)

Catskul (323619) | more than 12 years ago | (#2526600)

Ozone is also know as O3 and Smog(when mixed with other pollution). Is constantly produced by Internal combustion engines (cars). Unfortuneately it doesnt do us much good down here.

Mother Nature (4, Interesting)

rockwood (141675) | more than 12 years ago | (#2526509)

IMHO Mother Nature takes care of herself. Fires to clean the earth, wind to sweep away the garbage, seasons to refresh the vibrance of life and so forth...

This article suggests that though the total mass of the hole is reducing in size, it is also maintaining itself for longer periods. Without research, an immediate assumption would suggest that this would be letting the same doses of UV rays reach the earth annually.

I'd say Mother Nature is attemtping to counteract our efforts and regulate the earth the way she has done for millions of years!

And given our (human) track record.. I'd give 1000:1 odds in favor of Mother Nature doing the right thing.

Re:Mother Nature (4, Troll)

NecroPuppy (222648) | more than 12 years ago | (#2526645)

*sigh*

The increase of UV radition getting to the earth due to the depletion of ozone is smaller than the error factor of the best detection instraments.

And, even if it weren't, even changes as high as 20% aren't abnormal in nature. Otherwise, there wouldn't be life in Florida...

Big Deal... (4, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2526511)

Who Cares? This only affects those of us that
actually go outside, and in all honestly, how many of us have actually been outside in the
past two weeks. (Outdoor-type quake mods do not count)

mccann@telalink.net

Re:Big Deal... (1)

Zspdude (531908) | more than 12 years ago | (#2526582)

Please, curb your insensitivity... Antarctic tanners everywhere are heartbroken! Now to get the same bronze glow, they have to stay out longer, which is never easy as I'm sure you'll appreciate....

Re:Big Deal... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2526704)

Not even going outside to fetch the paper or going to work when playing the Sims?

Additional info at EPA site (5, Interesting)

cats-paw (34890) | more than 12 years ago | (#2526515)

I was just looking into this not too long ago. Strangely enough, we met someone from Israel while we were travelling in New Zealand who said it had closed, which I was sure was wrong. Turns out it's still there.

And remember it's not really a hole, i.e. there is ozone present, it's just at significantly lower levels.

Here are a couple of sites I found useful :

www.epa.gov/ozone/science/hole/holehome.html
www.atm.ch.cam.ac.uk/tour/

When we were in New Zealand the sun feels different ! It feels very intense and somewhat uncomfortable, and it was only the first month of spring. You HAVE to use sunscreen.

Re:Additional info at EPA site (1)

taniwha (70410) | more than 12 years ago | (#2526613)

yup, I'm from NZ - I moved to the US long before the ozone hole was noticed - the sun back there definitely has (had) a bite that it doesn;t in the US

Re:Additional info at EPA site (2, Funny)

Jeff Probst (459812) | more than 12 years ago | (#2526649)


yup, I'm from NZ - I moved to the US long before the ozone hole was noticed - the sun back there definitely has (had) a bite that it doesn;t in the US

thats because new zealand does not have the smog blocking the sun like the US has.

take their smog away and they'd have more trouble than they currently do.

Re:Additional info at EPA site (3, Informative)

sirsnork (530512) | more than 12 years ago | (#2526614)

Speaking as a New Zealander. The Sun and Heat here are probably unlike anything most people have felt. Burn time in the summer comes down as low as 10 minutes. You can't even get in your car and go for a drive without getting burnt. In mid summer you literally have to put on a top with long sleeves or your arms will physically hurt if you are out in the sun

Re:Additional info at EPA site (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2526620)

When we were in New Zealand the sun feels different ! It feels very intense and somewhat uncomfortable, and it was only the first month of spring. You HAVE to use sunscreen.
stay in your own god damn country. you contributed more than your fair share to this problem. and i dont care who flies planes into your buildings, stay there.

so... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2526518)

..does that mean i cant use those very useful packing peanuts anymore?

Re:so... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2526522)

CRAP! i meant:

so....does that mean i can use those very useful packing peanuts again?

Re:so... (-1, Redundant)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2526539)

damnit, i thought at least once i would be modded up. oh well...back to spraying arosol cans at the ozone layer...

Re:so... (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2526546)

please...please for the love of god someone mod this up! oh gawd!

Slashdot admits that open source programmers stink (-1)

WeatherTroll (529760) | more than 12 years ago | (#2526527)

OPEN SOURCE PROGRAMMERS STINK

Slashot admits the truth here:
http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=01/10/25/2192 51 &mode=thread

As we already know open source programmers stink, both at their jobs, and in general. Take RMS for instance. He can't get a job as a real programmer so he starts the FSF. He also hasn't taken a bath or shower in over 20 years making him stink in general. Living in a dark cave doesn't help either. I don't want to know what is crawling around in his hair.

I'm sure there are people at your office who are just like RMS if they can hold their jobs. You know they are close because you can smell them. You are spending hours of overtime fixing their code.

For anyone reading this post none of this is a suprise. However, slashdot is a bastion of open source programmers. That is why the code is so bad, and its the only website that you can smell over the internet because it reaks!!!!

What was suprising to me (and to you I'm sure) was that slashdot admitted in the above linked article that open source programmers stink.

I commend slashdot for admitting the brutal yet honest truth.

Problem with Environmental Theories (4, Interesting)

Moridineas (213502) | more than 12 years ago | (#2526529)

The problem with environmental theories is that they are just that...theories.

Much like chemistry of 50 or 100 years ago in many ways would seem laughable to what we know now (and will again in 50 years probably), the science of the environment is a young and new science. Unlike chemistry or physics, it's much harder to do experiments, and the timescales involved are immense.

The truth is we simply know too little about the Earth to make longterm models and whatnot that are dead on. We can make GUESSES, and maybe even good guesses, but there is still so much that we don't know at this point.

As a side note-it is my understanding that CO2 levels during the time of the dinosaurs were much higher than they are today. The Earth can handle huge changes with relatively little environmental impact. It's been around (what? 5 billion years?) a long time, I don't think humanity can destroy it in a little over two century.

Scott

Re:Problem with Environmental Theories (4, Insightful)

mrwilsox (174578) | more than 12 years ago | (#2526566)

You're right, we're not going to destroy the earth in a little over two centuries. However, we are making great strides toward making the earth very, very hard to inhabit for humans (and a number of other critters). If we just let things keep on going as they are and use up all of our fossil fuels and spew pollution into the air, land, and sea, the earth won't be a great place to live for us. But you better believe Mother Nature wouldn't care one bit if humans disappeared forever. Earth itself would keep on living, with other species remaining and probably a lot happier that we're gone.

Re:Problem with Environmental Theories (0)

cheese_wallet (88279) | more than 12 years ago | (#2526597)

Well, I think earth has been pretty hard to inhabit by humans for a long time. That is why we have houses.

Re:Problem with Environmental Theories (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2526654)

You rock, man!

Re:Problem with Environmental Theories (1)

rockwood (141675) | more than 12 years ago | (#2526573)

Environmentalist's concern about the ozone layer and the hole in the atmosphere brought about the end to natural CFC's (freon) being used throughout the world. Whether that was over-reacting has really yet to be seen, but when the volcano in the Phillipines erupted it was reported that more CFC's poured into the air than the U.S. could in a hundred years. Making the amount used in the U.S. miniscule in comparison to a single volcano. Though there is no doubt that the U.S. was polluting through frivolous use of CFC's. Even with conflicting environmental and scientific reports the ban was put in place, with great suspicion, as to it being an effective tool to prevent depletion of the ozone layer.

The DuPont Chemical Company had already developed and patented safer synthetic freons, at 10 times the costs to consumers prior to the ban being imposed. - David Icke

Re:Problem with Environmental Theories (1)

volkris (694) | more than 12 years ago | (#2526637)

Whether or not that was overreacting will NEVER be seen.

There is no way to isolate the variables. We'll simply never know.

Re:Problem with Environmental Theories (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2526594)

The ozone theory is like a lot of nonesense which the media have been dishing out. It's like a lot of baloney which we have been fed. For example, the whole load of crap about "diversity". I'll tell you what, the events of September 11 sort of shot that theory full of holes. The joys of "diversity". We've paid too high a price for some pointy headed college professor's "diversity theory". Personally, I'd like to see our country a whole lot less "diverse".

Re:Problem with Environmental Theories (2)

Safety Cap (253500) | more than 12 years ago | (#2526647)

It's been around (what? 5 billion years?) a long time, I don't think humanity can destroy it in a little over two century.

It has actually been around about 4.6 billion years (age of the oldest rocks [usgs.gov] ).

As other folks pointed out, we humans can't (yet? ever?) destroy the earth, but we can certainly make it unable to support our form of life [thinkquest.org] .

One last thing: "theories" are generally accepted by the scientific community until they are disproven. The semantics of the word does not lessen the idea behind it. The "theory of plate techtonics" is just that: a theory -- but some plates keep subducting and causing active vulcanism nonetheless.

Re:Problem with Environmental Theories (1)

Moridineas (213502) | more than 12 years ago | (#2526658)

This is true--however some thoeries don't pan out. It was a theory that men lived on mars, that diseases were caused by spirits or curses, and that fire was one of the four elements.

My point is that given what we know, the theory of global warming and our direct effect one things like the ozone should not be taken as canonical--take it cum grano salis.

Scott

Re:Problem with Environmental Theories (5, Informative)

CaptainCarrot (84625) | more than 12 years ago | (#2526683)

As a side note-it is my understanding that CO2 levels during the time of the dinosaurs were much higher than they are today. The Earth can handle huge changes with relatively little environmental impact.

Actually, the environment at the time of the dinosaurs was hugely different. Earth had no polar ice caps, and the continents were arranged differently. In the dinosarus' heyday around the middle of the Jurassic, the Atlantic Ocean didn't exist. The bulk of the land was grouped into an enormous crescent surrounding what is now the Indian Ocean. The coasts were warm and humid; the continental interior was desert. It was a world utterly unlike that we live in today, and we probably could not have flourished in it.

Re:Problem with Environmental Theories (5, Informative)

Jormundgard (260749) | more than 12 years ago | (#2526689)

Environmental science is over 100 years old, but it didn't start to thrive until after WWII.

The ozone hole and CFC sitatuion is one of the most well understood things in science however. It's due to the following:

  • Companies used to produce CFCs - a combination of Chlorine, Fluorine, and stuff that is extremely resilient. Most importantly, it's resilient to radiation, so it can survive long distances. Note that some people try to compare this to the chlorine dumped by Mt. St. Helens - but free chlorine is easily busted apart by radiation, while CFCs can survive the trip ahead of it.
  • The Equatorial Winds are a series of currents that blow from the equator to the poles (with a slight lean towards the north(?) ) - these blow chemicals form the equator (where humans mainly live) to the poles. Chlorine molecules are destroyed in the upper atmosphere by radiation, but CFC's survive the trip.
  • Finally, at the poles, the CFCs (which take a while to decay) break up in appreciable amounts at the poles, where the free chlorine reacts with the ozone, and breaking it apart. The fact that there are free fluorine atoms in the poles, which is only possible by man-made actions, is the smoking gun.

  • Based on the equatorial cycle, one would expect to be free of CFC effects after about 100 years - I guess it's been about 25? So I guess this is about when one would start to notice the effects.

    Although there are the occasional puppets who still denounce ozone problems, the industries and governments were immediately convinced by the evidence, which is why humans have probably fought off this problem.

    Finally, the CO2 issue is a global warming thing, which isn't really related to the ozone hole problem. That's a polar icecap melting problem, and the data is still not totally convincing---the problem is that some predictions say that it's too late to prevent a 1m rise in sea level.

Re:Problem with Environmental Theories (1)

Moridineas (213502) | more than 12 years ago | (#2526720)

Thanks for your informative reply. How do we know for sure the CFC's caused the ozone "hole" ? Is it possible that historically there have been weakpoints in the ozone, and that humans maybe only exacerbated this, or maybe even have had no impact at all?

Scott

Re:Problem with Environmental Theories (2, Informative)

Jormundgard (260749) | more than 12 years ago | (#2526727)

People (e.g. chemists) know that chlorine reacting with ozone will break ozone apart, and people know that CFCs can make it to the arctic, at which point they decompose (based on their decay rates). I hope that answers your question, but let me know if it doesn't (post or email).

Re:Problem with Environmental Theories (1)

Jormundgard (260749) | more than 12 years ago | (#2526730)

Oops, I didnt address everything. Also, there is data of the ozone density of it steeply decreasing from about 1950 to 1990, at which point it stabilized out, in reaction to decrease in the use of CFCs (actually, I think they measure something else that's proportional to the ozone density - I don't remember). That coupled with the chemical fact is pretty good evidence, although greenpeace would probably say incontrovertible :).

The voice of disonance (3, Insightful)

Jingle Returno (531353) | more than 12 years ago | (#2526532)

Thus, the issue of whether the global ozone layer shows a steadily depleting trend is still controversial.

Taken right from the essay. Although I would agree with you in that I'm not totally convinced on the issue of 'ozone layer depletion' either, it is interesting to see that this article begins with a scientific basis of 'the uncertainty' of research on ozone layer cause and effect and quickly progresses to the fact that it costs lots of money to phase out 'potential' ozone depleting chemicals and whether or not it is in the US's interest to stay in potentially expensive environmental pacts.

I think one of the key things that we have come to realize at the end of this century is that many of the large scale phenomena we witness here on Earth are the products of an extremely complex and often non-linear series of events. Our technology has reached the point where it can and often does cause serious changes to our environment. One of the problems with the point of view that this essay takes is that it neglects 'precaution' in favour of the idea that we should be more concerned with short term economical gain.

If something has the potential to possibly cause damage, isn't it more logical to stop using it? Even if we are only right 1 in 10 times on whether something can cause damage to the environment, I would rather waste the money controlling the nine than sweeping the one under the rug.

Ozone Hole (0)

linatux (63153) | more than 12 years ago | (#2526538)

If CFC's caused the hole, why isn't it above Europe/America? Why does it only appear in the southern summer? same time, same place. Why Antarctic (miles from anywhere) rather than Arctic? Why don't we just plug it? Ozone being easy enuf to produce, even by accident. Why do we care?

Re:Ozone Hole (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2526617)

Why don't we just plug it? Ozone being easy enough to produce, even by accident. Why do we care?
This is what I can't figure out. We should have engineers running NOAA instead of liberal grad students. I guarantee you that if engineers ran the EPA, we wouldn't have any pollution problems. We'd use good engineering practice to correct any problems. Anyone who has ever worked around industrial electrical machinery knows the smell of ozone. As you said, we make more than enough of it accidentally.

Great, that's what G.W.Bush needs to hear =) (5, Funny)

veddermatic (143964) | more than 12 years ago | (#2526544)

"See, fuck the environment, it just fixes itself! That Alaskan Wildlife thingie my dad and Uncle Cheney say I should let thier companies drill in will be all wildlifey again in no time!"


Oh well. Luckily the world will end AFTER I'm dead.

Re:Great, that's what G.W.Bush needs to hear =) (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2526640)

Bush graduated with a business degree from Harvard. You switched majors 11 times before winding up with a lowly B.A. in economics from a no name school. Although I suppose that you did graduate, unlike Algore.

O' course, I'd have taken John McCain over either one of 'em.

Goatse.cx anal hole leveling off (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2526553)

"An Slashdot article reports that the size of the hole in the goatse.cx [goatse.cx] guy is levelling off and should begin reducing in size. It seems like it should be welcome news but it is tempered by the fact that more cocks will reach the southern rectum this year because the hole will persist longer. Unfortunately I can not find any details regarding the goatse.cx report on their website." [goatse.cx]

not in USA Time? (1)

Frothy Walrus (534163) | more than 12 years ago | (#2526556)

is it a coincidence that the USian Time wouldn't carry that story, and there's no mention of this on NOAA [noaa.gov] 's site?

it doesn't sit right with me.

Press Release (5, Informative)

ukryule (186826) | more than 12 years ago | (#2526559)

is at http://www.publicaffairs.noaa.gov/releases2001/oct 01/noaa01104.html [noaa.gov] .

To summarise the findings, it seems the density of Chlorine from CFCs has peaked, and it is expected the Ozone hole will gradually (i.e. over the next 50 years!) disappear.

It now seems to be an interesting case of us screwing up our environment, working out what we'd done, and fixing it. However, you could consider that we just 'got lucky':
  • The fact that it was concentrated in one spot meant that the problem was identified before we'd managed to strip the whole atmosphere of ozone.
  • It was concentrated over the least populated part of the globe. Compare the increase in awareness/incidence of skin cancer in Australia/New Zealand with what might have happened if it was concentrated around the equator.
  • The solution (banning CFCs) had relatively little economic impact making it easily implementable. It was also a universally accepted solution.

Compare this with the current situation re global warming, and this looks less like a successful victory and more like a warning shot across the bows ...

Re:Press Release (1, Insightful)

linatux (63153) | more than 12 years ago | (#2526565)

considering CFC's were largely phased out before we knew about an ozone hole, I would say neither luck nor good management had anything to do with it.

Strange (3, Interesting)

socceroo (202491) | more than 12 years ago | (#2526687)

I live in Melbourne. If you look at the piccies of the hole, you'll see it nowhere near approaches Melbourne.

I have to use sunscreen when I go outside. I've got fair complexion and I burn up in the sun. Yet when I visit Sydney, I can spend 2 hours in the sun without as much getting a lick from sunburn.

You have to wonder what the situation is like in Hobart or Antartica.

At the expense of good air conditioning (3, Insightful)

Powercntrl (458442) | more than 12 years ago | (#2526561)

Back in '92 (I believe - not sure), most new air conditioners started being manufactured with CFC-free refrigerants. The "new" coolant requires different tolerances in the compressor and evaporator systems. What this means (as anyone who has tried to retrofit an older car air conditioner with CFC-free coolant can tell you) is that the new coolant doesn't work as well in older systems. This has actually created a black market for the older coolant (freon, as I recall) from countries where it is still manufactured.

If this research is correct, the coolant switchover and strict rules regarding the recovery of waste freon have probably played a part in the improvement. Even if this is an inconvience for auto A/C mechanics, it's a small price to pay to preserve our valuable ecosystem.

So if you're driving an older car and your recharged air conditioner doesn't seem as cold as you remember it, you're right. But you're helping save the enviorment.

Re:At the expense of good air conditioning (2)

Safety Cap (253500) | more than 12 years ago | (#2526664)

So if you're driving an older car ... you're helping save the enviorment.

Um... don't older cars get worse gas mileage than modern ones (especially the hybrid beasts [honda2001.com] with their 65+ mpg), therefore are more damaging to the environment?

Isn't that like flicking your cigarette butt out the car window so your ashtray doesn't get full [edmunds.com] ?

Re:At the expense of good air conditioning (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2526723)

I just had my 91 Honda CRX retro fitted with the "new stuff" as it was cheaper then recharging the system with R-12. Anyways, the point is I can't tell the difference between the before and after conversion...except when I'm stopped at a red light or idleing for but a few minutes. I can only suspect that the "new stuff" doesn't condense very well and thus needs more help with heat dissipation then that of R-12 from the condenser core. But all in all, it was well worth the conversion. Also, if my system needs an extra charge I can just simply by an extra can of the new coolent off the shelf.

BTW, I live in Houston Texas. And trust me, the heat + humidity does take a major toll on the Human body after but a few hours outside durring the daytime. Sorry, but Arizona is alot more comfortable. At least there, shade is actually good for keeping cool.

Taco's Tiny Penis (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2526564)

In gym class we laughed at him. Taco showered in his underwear. Then one day we pulled off his briefs. There in the gym room shower was CmdrTaco displaying the cutest teeny tinyest little errection you ever saw! That little pipsqueak got a bitty hard-on in gym class shower. What a queer. We all suspected he was a fag, but his little gym class "splinter" confirmed it.

Another article, and my 2 cents... (2, Interesting)

H0NGK0NGPH00EY (210370) | more than 12 years ago | (#2526567)

More info on the same subject [nasa.gov] .

Every time I hear someone talk about the ozone hole that we (humans) are creating, I have a little laugh to myself. I mean, seriously... Human beings populate such an insanely small percentage of the Earth's surface (I mean, far less than half is even land anyway), how can you believe that we could really have such an immediate (read: 80 years) impact on something like the global climate? Come on, I think that's getting just a little bit of a big head... We wish we could control the weather...

Re:Another article, and my 2 cents... (1)

nysus (162232) | more than 12 years ago | (#2526688)

I hate to burst your bubble of scientific evidence but the percentage of physical SPACE humans take up has no direct correlation to how much damage we might/might not be having on the weather.

Re:Another article, and my 2 cents... (3, Insightful)

Cato the Elder (520133) | more than 12 years ago | (#2526724)

Ahh, false humility.

Sure, human beings populate only a small bit of the Earth's surface (and an even smaller portion of its volume). An atom bomb takes up very little space vis a vis the area it destroys, or a virii in the hosts they kill.

You should take a look at a photo of Earth from space, at night. See all the glowing splotches? Those are human cities, pumping light into space. We know how to leave a mark.

Oh, sure, we can't "control" the weather. That doesn't mean we don't influence it. It takes a lot less skill to wreck a car than to drive it well.

Re:Another article, and my 2 cents... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2526739)

You jump all over the layman who provides a faulty opinion, yet avoid the threads that ridicule the entire concept?

Sounds like your three-legged stool is only bipedal.

The Ozone Enigma (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2526578)

Maybe this question should go to "Ask Slashdot" but I'll ask it anyway. Ozone is a pollutant. It is a major reason for cities to have summer air pollution health alerts. Why can't we suck up all the summertime street level ozone, and transport it back to the upper atmosphere where it belongs?

Also, if there is not enough ozone, it is very easy to make: electric sparks create ozone. We could build a hydro dam and dedicate it to ozone production. Then we could transport this ozone back up there too.

Re:The Ozone Enigma (1)

c_jonescc (528041) | more than 12 years ago | (#2526612)

Low altitude ozone is BAD. O3 is a poison, and it won't travel up high all by itself. It is easy to make, but placing it high up is costly, and the pollutants from the fuel required to get the junk up there would likely cancel any gain we could make. I don't know where to find an actual calculation of a pollution to ozone reproduction ratio, but I bet you can find one in on the EPA web page. Then again, I could be wrong about everything.

Re:The Ozone Enigma (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2526626)

the pollutants from the fuel required to get the junk up there would likely cancel any gain we could make.
I've thought about that. Couldn't the O3 be compressed, and then hoisted aloft by balloons? I remember that the National Geographic had a large balloon go up 70,000 feet. Let the balloon rise very high, then release the compressed ozone by remote control.

Re:The Ozone Enigma (0)

linatux (63153) | more than 12 years ago | (#2526665)

just send up solar powered generators on the baloons. Oh wait ... the sun's U.V. makes O3 up there anyway - and when there's enough, the U.V. won't be able to get through to make any more.

Perhaps the hole is really only due to volcano's in Antarctica, and we should nuke them out of existance for our own safety!

ahh, the news (1)

subnet533 (529772) | more than 12 years ago | (#2526583)

This was reported in the USA Today over a year ago, does the news really travel that slow?

Lewis Black (2, Funny)

QuiK_ChaoS (190208) | more than 12 years ago | (#2526627)

In the great words of Lewis Black:

"We've got rockets, we've got plastic wrap... Fix it!"

It will NEVER disappear (1)

javaDragon (187973) | more than 12 years ago | (#2526642)

because it hase NEVER appeared due to human activity. The ozone "layer" exists because there is oxygen in our atmosphere, and ozone creation is the continuously ongoing result of the solar UV. The southern "hole" is simply due to a few factors, such as the antartic vortex, which insulates Antartic continent from the rest of the atmosphere during the night (i.e. from april to november). There has been no measure of the ozone layer "width" in the past prior to the "discovery" of the "hole". This is total bullshit. Now a little question : when did the patents on CFC expired ? When did the worldwide campaign against CFC begin ? When did the so-called "replacement" product to CFC patent will end ? Who own(ed) the patents ?

Re:It will NEVER disappear (0)

linatux (63153) | more than 12 years ago | (#2526677)

pip pip ... except that the southern summer is when the hole appears. April to November might be night way way up north, but not down here.

Re:It will NEVER disappear (1)

nysus (162232) | more than 12 years ago | (#2526698)

EXCELLENT post. I didn't know all this.


Thanks for straightening me out. I knew all those scientists were making this shit up to get more funding from the government.


One other thing: can you please post some reputable scientific sources for your conclustion?

The science of the ozone hole (3, Informative)

ukryule (186826) | more than 12 years ago | (#2526657)

A good description of the process which results in the ozone hole can be found here [cam.ac.uk] .

Basically, the intense cold of an antarctic winter creates a vortex which isolates the air over the south pole, and allows build up of the CFCs. When the summer comes, the Chlorine from the CFCs acts as a catalyst to destroy the ozone.

It now seems to be well understood - but it's one of those things that nobody could have predicted before it happened.

I don't get something... (3, Insightful)

sconeu (64226) | more than 12 years ago | (#2526660)

I thought that weather patterns tend to not cross the equator...

If that's true (and even if it's not), why is the ozone hole over the ANTARCTIC? Aren't most of the CFC/ozone-eating gases being emitted in the NORTHERN HEMISPHERE? Why isn't there one over the arctic?

Re:I don't get something... (2)

radja (58949) | more than 12 years ago | (#2526678)

weather patterns may or may not cross the equator. I have no idea. but spreading weather patterns is something entirely different then dispersing a gas worldwide. The weather patterns are made of dynamic stuff like wind.

//rdj

Re:I don't get something... (2, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2526699)

Simple reason....

Take a look at a map of the Arctic and the Antarctic, they are in fact almost exact opposites. The Arctic is a almost circular sea surrounded (almost) by land, roughly centred on the pole. The Antarctic is a high, near circular continent, roughly centred on the pole, surrounded by sea.

The main effect of this difference is that the Antarctic geography allows a stable polar vortex, which isolates the Antarctic atmosphere during the polar winter, allowing the upper atmosphere in particular to become very cold. The nastiness in the Ozone equilibria happens during the spring when this extremely cold upper atmosphere is irradiated by the sun.

The Arctic has a much weaker polar vortex, and hence, although ozone depletion is seen, it is much weaker.

maybe it's not reducing (1)

TomK32 (411719) | more than 12 years ago | (#2526673)

because they used some NASA program to calculate the size and mixed miles with kilometers....
the hole is everywhere

Good news (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2526675)

This means we can settle Antarctica after all! No more worrying about the DMCA

no self regulation ! (1)

serlo (206060) | more than 12 years ago | (#2526679)

the potential recovery of the ozone hole is
due to the world wide reduction of CFCs.

It is not mother earth recovering itself !!!

It is not clear however, whether the global warming
could stop the recovery, since the warming
of the lower levels in the atmosphere is
connected to a cooling in the stratosphere.
This cooling enhances the desctruction of ozone.

everything you could want in a slashdot topic ... (0)

linatux (63153) | more than 12 years ago | (#2526686)

more FUD than M$, no "real" facts in evidence and opinions from a-hole to breakfast.

Drive like your life depends on it ... it does!

Always get hard data! (1)

Savage-Rabbit (308260) | more than 12 years ago | (#2526703)

From the very beginning of this whole Greenhouse/ozone scare there has been:

A near complete lack of proof for the fact that humans are causing either.

No shortage of people claiming that humanity is more or less solely to blaim.

I do not think anyone can argue with the fact that human generated pollution is not helping but given the complete absence of long term data on the development of the Ozone layer the Ozone gap could (I am not saying it is just that it could) just as well be an natural phenomenon. Which is what responsible scientist have been saying from the very beginnin. So this development should not be all that suprising. But then serious science seems always to get gagged by the rhetoric of fanatical enviromentalism and conservative politics just like those few brave souls that blasphemed by suggested climate change happens rapidly over a few hundred years or even less and not over tens of thousands of years or even less time after analysing the results of the Greenland glacier ice core drillings. And that perhaps humanity is only contributing to/accelerating a climate change and not casusing it. Perhaps the stiffnecked Conservatives and the Treehuggers alike should let scientist do their work and not use their work for mudslinging before it has even produced definitive results.

This is probably redundant already.. (2, Flamebait)

D Anderson n'Swaart (453234) | more than 12 years ago | (#2526708)

..but I thought I'd throw in my 2c (0.8c US) as someone living in New Zealand. Although the ozone hole does affect South Africa, where I moved to New Zealand from, the problem is definitely worse in the Land of Sheep(tm). The sun is more intense, even late in the afternoon, and I find that while the shade is a good indicator of the real air temperature, I get much hotter in the sun than I did in South Africa, despite the fact that air temperatures average around 5 C cooler.

Just as a flame-worthy side note, there is a lot of antagonism in New Zealand towards the US because of Bush's decision to boycott the Kyoto(sp?) Protocol. The United States is demonstrably by far the worse offender with carbon dioxide emissions, and the general consenus in the scientific community is that these emissions are causing, or at least accelerating the hole in the ozone layer. To be honest, Usians aren't the most popular people (as a society, not individuals--I personally have met several and they were wonderful people), and this is just one more straw on the proverbial and cliched camel's back, with the United States saying what is effectively "Stuff you, we'll do what we want and who cares about your ozone hole causing rising skin cancer and medical costs".

I didn't mean that as a flame, just a point of view. I'd rather you respond than just mod me down...I'm aware that I am oversimplifying it; this is merely the general trend of thinking in Kiwiland.

Re:This is probably redundant already.. (2)

Greyfox (87712) | more than 12 years ago | (#2526734)

I doubt Bush will do anything. Personally, one of the first things I'd have done after the Sept. 11 attacks was sign a huge increase in alternative energy funding (Actually I'd have done it before that) with the goal of getting fusion working well in the next 20 years or so and also with the goal of every American driving a hydrogen powered vehicle by 2015. Would have killed several birds with one stone. Mandatory emission standards have resulted in much cleaner cities here, though, and to get a feel for that all you have to do is visit someplace like Romania, where despite the far fewer number of vehicles on the road, it's still fucking hard to breathe the air. Most people don't seem to notice though, since everyone smokes. Outside you're sucking in diesel fumes and inside you're sucking in secondhand smoke.

Ozone hole - the real details (0, Informative)

sales_worldwide (244279) | more than 12 years ago | (#2526712)

A few more web sites that I've come across, giving a saner perspective of Global Warming, etc.:

CITIZENS FOR A SOUND ECONOMY
http://www.cse.org/globwarm.htm

COOLER HEADS COALITION
http://www.globalwarming.org

THE ADVANCEMENT OF SOUND SCIENCE COALITION/THE JUNK SCIENCE HOME PAGE
http://www.junkscience.com

MOBIL
http://www.mobil.com

SCIENCE & ENVIRONMENTAL POLICY PROJECT
http://www.his.com/~sepp

MARSHALL INSTITUTE
www.marshall.org

The Cooler Heads site is the one with the more realistic views.
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