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Slashback: Solidity, Sneakiness, Recovery

timothy posted more than 12 years ago | from the tidbits-from-dandridge-tn dept.

Slashback 185

The first slashback of normal time (not Daylight Savings) in a while, tonight with news of 3Dwm's continuing progress, ways brave OS X pioneers can bravely reclaim their lost MP3 files, and a word of caution on HP's upcoming digital-audio playbox.

Vivid Video, take note: NickElm writes: "The 3Dwm project, already featured twice before on Slashdot (the last time little more than a year ago), is still alive and kicking and making steady progress. This summer, we added CSG support, full VNC interaction, and our first real application (a 3Dwm clock). To top it off, Xybernaut recently donated two wearable computers to the project, perfect platforms for this kind of thing. 3Dwm packages have existed for Debian for quite some time, and we were just now adopted by Mandrake as well. What are you waiting for, download it and try it out for yourself! Still far from a complete user environment, but we're getting there..."

Do you want your iTunes iBack, little iBoy? pinqkandi writes "Apple has released some tips on getting back your data lost by the iTunes Installer for Mac OS X. If you haven't written to the partition where the loss occured, you should be able to get it back with Tech Tool Pro or Norton Utilities. Apple's tips warn to NOT use a Volume Recover feature in these utilities, but instead use their tools to recover lost data. Also, boot from a CD before recovering data, and also follow your utility's maker's directions. Unfortunately, no free utilities are listed for the recovery."

The sort of details you'll find on page 17 in small print. ARP writes "A while ago RatedPC brought us some scoop of HP's upcoming Digital Entertainment Center de100c. At first this unit seems to be a perfect addition to home theatre systems right? Well, you better forget about it if you think you are going to use it to share music or make your own CDs from your MP3 collection. What HP hasn't told us is they have been seriously whipped by DRM (Digital Rights Management). An internal FAQ has revealed that users will be unable to use CD-RWs to burn off their own CDs. You will need to buy "Digital Audio Discs" and royalties from these discs are distributed to artists via the RIAA. And you can't transfer your songs to your PC either. Without a doubt RIAA's foothold has extended much above just this. Don't be surprised if it won't play your MP3 collection because they are not digitally signed. The problem is that RIAA will be riding high on HP success with this product and their grip will be firmer when it comes to controlling what you will do with your music."

A similar problem affects the otherwise very cool-looking Terapin video recorder, which I would pick up in a heartbeat if it worked with regular CD-Rs. The HP website talks about burning tracks to CD, but makes no mention of such restrictions; I hope this is simply bad information, but it seems quite likely that "burning to CD" in this case will mean burning to industry-sanctioned CDs with their accompanying surcharge. Can anyone provide further information?

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foist poist (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2530518)

east coawst!

Re:foist poist (-1, Offtopic)

KingAzzy (320268) | more than 12 years ago | (#2530552)

Your penis has attracted the attention of that most vile and infamous of penis snatchers, JonKatz.

Law enforcement personnel recommend that you secure your penis from his thieving lips as quickly as possible. Other male members of your family are also in danger from JonKatz penis-snatching.

HTH HAND

Slashback: Post FIrst! (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2530519)

I'm back!

(n/t) (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2530529)

Vivid Video? (3, Funny)

geekd (14774) | more than 12 years ago | (#2530544)

I don't get the reference to Vivid Video [vividvideo.com] .

What does a major porn distributor have to do with 3Dwm?

Re:Vivid Video? (1)

laserjet (170008) | more than 12 years ago | (#2530598)

Perhaps I'm retarded, but I didn't see a reference to Vivid Video. Or it could be because it's after 5:00 and my brain is worn out for the day. I don't know either.

Re:Vivid Video? (1)

geekd (14774) | more than 12 years ago | (#2530719)

It's right at the top of the article here on ./:

Vivid Video, take note: NickElm writes: "The 3Dwm project, already featured twice before on Slashdot (the last time little more than a year ago), is...

Re:Vivid Video? (3, Offtopic)

timothy (36799) | more than 12 years ago | (#2530606)

Vivid is known for putting to use some of the interesting features of the DVD format (like multiple angles / "story" jumping akin to Choose Your Own Adventure, but ... with naked people) while mainstream filmmakers mostly haven't.

One of the features they have apparenly added is a 3-D walkthrough as a menu-choosing function (navigate choices by browsing, first-person-like through a hallway in their simulated House O' Skin). Perhaps someone with a functioning DVD player can better comment on this.

Added to which, they have a big online / computer interest if not presence (the vivid studio head, whose name I forget, gets shown / interviewed on TV sometimes talking about such), so this seems like a natural fit for them.

timothy

Re:Vivid Video? (1)

geekd (14774) | more than 12 years ago | (#2530616)

Thanks. That's probably it.

I haven't seen a Vivid movie in years. Too tame for my taste, although their girls are *hot*

Re:Vivid Video? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2530630)

Does Vivid put out the Where The Girls Aren't series? That one is pretty high quality stuff.

Re:Vivid Video? (1)

geekd (14774) | more than 12 years ago | (#2530653)

Where The Girls Aren't

But that would mean... men only... and that would be... gay.

Aha. I see what you're getting at... ;-)

IIRC, Vivid puts out the "Where The Boys Aren't". It's been a few years since I worked at the video store (dot-com boom got me hired doing computer work and that put a damper on my video store clerk career) but I don't think Vivid does gay (male) porn.

Re:Vivid Video? (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2530798)

stop talking to yourself bitch

Re:Vivid Video? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2530876)

yep, that's them one of those was my first porn rental. Ah, the memories...

Re:Vivid Video? (1)

czardonic (526710) | more than 12 years ago | (#2530668)

One of the features they have apparenly added is a 3-D walkthrough as a menu-choosing function (navigate choices by browsing, first-person-like through a hallway in their simulated House O' Skin). Perhaps someone with a functioning DVD player can better comment on this.

This is a gerat feature if you like the idea of walking through down a hallway (replete with crappy texture mapping) in order to get to the, ahem, content. Personally, I think that the main reason to buy DVDs is to avoid cumbersome access times. On the plus side, they do manage to cram a lot of, ahem, content onto those DVDs. Definitely a value.

BTW, this feature works on both my laptop and my DVD player.

Re:Vivid Video? (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2530687)

of course TIMMAH! knows what vivid is ... pr0n freak.

Yes they do have an online presence (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2530785)

For downloadable or streaming full length high quality Vivid videos, you need look no further than Bluebare [bluebare.com] . No, this isn't an advertisement, just filling in details on timothy's sketchy comments.

Re:Vivid Video? (1)

Platinum Dragon (34829) | more than 12 years ago | (#2530886)

Timmy... you, uhhh, seem to know your porn distributors rather well.

Re:Vivid Video? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2530890)

Hmm... VA Software is having financial problems, and the /. crew start running stories about pr0n.

Coincidence? Read the book.

I'm in trouble now... (5, Funny)

tjgrant (108530) | more than 12 years ago | (#2530622)

So I clicked on the link looking for enlightenment, and all it was was some porn site.
Then the boss walked in...
Then the popups started popping up.
"Yes, I was doing my job I was reading Slashdot and the article linked...
"...Oh, never mind"

Re:I'm in trouble now... (1)

Meleneth (104287) | more than 12 years ago | (#2530878)

slacker!

we all believe you. suuuuure.

Re:Vivid Video? (3, Funny)

roberjo (254325) | more than 12 years ago | (#2530846)

Here comes captain obvious to save the day. The refernce to Vivid Video is because the 3Dwm project is about Human/Computer Interaction. High Tech porn... Human/Computer Interaction... High Tech Porn... HUMAN/COMPUTER INTERACTION..


To top it off, Xybernaut recently donated two wearable computers to the project, perfect platforms for this kind of thing.


Can I make it any clearer?

Apple giving an even more helping hand... (5, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2530546)

Apple is offering users who lost data using the initial version of the iTunes 2.0 for OS X installer both reimbursement for purchase of Norton Utilities and/or data recovery services.

http://newforums.macnn.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cg i? ubb=get_topic&f=45&t=000637

Here's the fix for free (-1)

dead_puppy (532541) | more than 12 years ago | (#2530735)

1. Run iTunes to delete hard drive
2. Reinstall with a real OS

I know those are a lot of steps for a mac luser like you to follow, so take your time next time you decide to buy a computer, do something called research instead of buying the nice transparant-pink-flamigo-flaming-piece-of-shit off the counter of Sucker^H^H^H^H^H^HCompUSA.

Re:Here's the fix for free (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2530819)

And whats a real OS? It surely isn't linux.

Re:Here's the fix for free (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2530829)

Are you stupid??? of course it's XP for god sake!

Re:Apple giving an even more helping hand... (1)

motherhead (344331) | more than 12 years ago | (#2530789)

is there any real numbers on how many people were effected by this? i installed 2.0 (the Bad Apple) on the boot partition of a multi-partitioned disk and have not had any trouble at all. i am not claiming it is a hoax, because it obviously is not. but on the other hand i don't think this was a rampant DOS4 like mess.

Re:Apple giving an even more helping hand... (0)

gvsu_snow_lord (318176) | more than 12 years ago | (#2530813)

its said if you have mutiple partitions... have spaces in your hd partaition name... and have removed iTunes 1.1 and ran the orginal 2.0 installer then you would loose your data.

Re:Apple giving an even more helping hand... (2)

SilentChris (452960) | more than 12 years ago | (#2530808)

"Apple is offering users who lost data using the initial version of the iTunes 2.0 for OS X installer both reimbursement for purchase of Norton Utilities and/or data recovery services."

As they should. Although, they shouldn't have erased my files to begin with.

Now, how do I start my broken Mac again?

It's Unfortunate, but not unexpected (2, Interesting)

Erioll (229536) | more than 12 years ago | (#2530548)

I can't say I'm totally suprised by the move from HP. With their upcoming merger with Compaq, there is no doubt that they are worried about possible legal action from others while they are vulnerable. This move by them for DRM is really only to protect themselves. I don't like it, but I can't really blame them.

As for the 3Dwm, great idea! I hope you guys keep it going. Something like that could be very good for UIs in the future.

And the Apple stuff. Hmm. Not an Apple user myself since Elementary School, so I won't seriously comment.

Re:It's Unfortunate, but not unexpected (5, Funny)

b_pretender (105284) | more than 12 years ago | (#2530564)

It's not just legal action. The RIAA has time and time again been connected to the mafia and some major organized crime. When this is the case, then it lobbying and court battles aren't the only things you have to worry about. You have to worry about arson, death to loved ones, and your own personal safety.

Probably the only large group with more connections than the RIAA is the MPAA.

Re:It's Unfortunate, but not unexpected (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2530581)

Having sait this, you realize that we need to eliminate you.

Stay home and wait for Vito.

Vito called, i introduced him to my COLT (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2530633)

and buried his garlic smelling, over weight, chianti drinking corpse in the back-yard next to my mother in law. They make a nice couple.
Next time send a hired thug who can read the keep off the grass signs.

Re:It's Unfortunate, but not unexpected (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2530709)

Organized crime? Umm, what?

Re:It's Unfortunate, but not unexpected (2)

jovlinger (55075) | more than 12 years ago | (#2530852)

So what do you get for the royalties you pay for the media?

I would presume (not assume, since, well, statistics aren't on my side) that you are buying the rights to make a legal copy of some music onto that disk.

So using this burner and media, I would be able to make mix-cds for my friends w/o infringing any copyrights? I mean, I am already allowed to make mix-cds for myself, as per fair-use, so I must be getting SOMETHING for the extra money I pay, no? And since you say it is for royalties, that must mean that ANOTHER legal copy was created by my copying (as you only pay royalites on each song once).

ITunes Recovery (4, Interesting)

Alien54 (180860) | more than 12 years ago | (#2530554)

If you haven't written to the partition where the loss occured, you should be able to get it back with Tech Tool Pro or Norton Utilities.

Which is what any data recovery pro could have told you.

But many modern systems are sold with only one partition. and there is the added question of virtual memory systems such as used in Mac and windows. The Mac OSX setup, based on BSD, should not have this as a big issue, if they use the typical swap partition.

(and some people wonder why you would not put it all into one large partition!)

Re:ITunes Recovery (2, Offtopic)

penguinboy (35085) | more than 12 years ago | (#2530572)

Well, it really doesn't matter how your partitions are arranged if you end up doing 'rm -rf /' as root - anything that's mounted is going to get wiped. That said, there are of course still very good reasons to partition one's drives.

Re:ITunes Recovery (1)

pythas (75383) | more than 12 years ago | (#2530686)

This bug only happened if you had multiple partitions.

Re:ITunes Recovery (5, Informative)

victim (30647) | more than 12 years ago | (#2530702)

People with only one partition were not harmed. You had to have more than one partition and have one of them named like the first one with another word after it. "Disk" and "Disk 2" would do it.

Very few mac users use more than one partition. There isn't a compelling reason for most people.

Re:ITunes Recovery (2, Informative)

kaimiike1970 (444130) | more than 12 years ago | (#2530866)

I and all the mac users I know use multiple partitions... especially usefull is the deicated 1 GB scratch partition for photoshop...

Re:ITunes Recovery (0)

marx (113442) | more than 12 years ago | (#2530705)

I think you could only lose the data if you had at least two partitions, so that's probably irrelevant .

Re:ITunes Recovery (2)

schwanerhill (135840) | more than 12 years ago | (#2530931)

Mac OS X does not use a separate swap partition by default; the swap files are in /private/var/vm unless the user put them somewhere else.

As others have said, this bug did not erase the disk mounted at / ; it only erased partions mounted in /Volumes. (OS X mounts every partition except / at "/Volumes/Partition Name" (note the space, which is, of course, what caused the problem).

HP (the printer maker) will see this die... (1, Troll)

microbob (29155) | more than 12 years ago | (#2530555)

Yeah, yeah. Unless they GIVE IT AWAY, no one will buy it.

Good riddance.

Re:HP (the printer maker) will see this die... (3, Insightful)

laserjet (170008) | more than 12 years ago | (#2530620)

...Which is precisely what they do with their printers. They give them away, sometimes even losing money initially, but wait... people need... toner! Yeah that's it, we'll charge an arm and a leg for finely ground plastic!

To be semi on-topic, I can't believe that HP's new mp3 device is so limiting. It seems that the old HP would have gone with what people really want, and not bow to the RIAA and all this digital protection crap. Look what happened with Napster: You used to have one mp3-sharing company to kill, now you have 50 small, flexible, and no-one-person-owns-me mp3 sharing networks/programs. They really shot themselves in the foot on this one!

Viva la resistance.

Magic! (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2530556)

(I love this song... The Cars ruled. How come today's new music has to suck so much ass?)

The Cars - Magic

Summer turns me upside down
Summer summer summer
It's like a merry-go-round
I see you under the midnight
All shackles and bows

High shoes with the cleats a-clickin'
a tempermental glow

How far will you take it
Well no one knows
Don't let me go
I got a hold on you tonight

CHORUS
Oh oh it's magic
When I'm with you
Oh oh it's magic
You know it's true
Got a hold on you

Twisted under sideways down
I know you're getting twisted
And you can't calm down
I see you under the midnight
Love darts in your eyes
How far can you take it
Till you realize
There's magic in your eyes
CHORUS

blame BSD (-1)

Anonymous Pancake (458864) | more than 12 years ago | (#2530557)

you don't see microsoft's installers erasing data.. and mac never had a problem either.. but as soon as they switch to a bsd based system, chaos. I suggest mac users sell their overpriced systems, buy a good pc, and install windows XP.. I haven't heard of THAT OS losing data! Mac is really going to fall apart now, thanks to BSD

iTunes (5, Informative)

BoarderPhreak (234086) | more than 12 years ago | (#2530558)

I downloaded iTunes v2.0 when it came out, and promptly installed it. Luckily, my drives were named without spaces, etc. and I escaped the wrath of the unquoted "rm -rf" bug.

I managed to get v2.0.1 later this weekend and re-installed, just to be on the safe-side, and in case there were any other changes.

The improvements like the EQ, crossfade and faster burning are nice. It doesn't crossfade when burning, though, which stinks - but otherwise you couldn't track-change. You can burn MP3 CDs now, too.

A costly upgrade for some... ;) But pretty darned nice if it works out, which should be for the majority of the people.

Hey, give Apple a chance - they're a little new to this Unix thing. Heh. MacOS X fully rocks.

Re:iTunes (2, Insightful)

reddeno (155457) | more than 12 years ago | (#2530743)

Ahhh... but you can crossfade with tracks! Just don't use audio padding.

Re:iTunes (2, Interesting)

Espresso_Boy (225886) | more than 12 years ago | (#2530771)

they're a little new to this Unix thing.

Actually, Apple had it's own Unix a long time ago. It was called A/UX and it ran on many of the 68k macs (no PowerPC). It was pretty slick. It had this cool System 7 intigration thing, and IIRC it could run normal MacOS binaries. Pitty Apple hasn't opensourced it, or at least made it free. The people in comp.unix.aux are really informative if you have any questions.

Re:iTunes (1)

Uncle Dick (534747) | more than 12 years ago | (#2530774)

Luckily, my drives were named without spaces, etc. and I escaped the wrath of the unquoted "rm -rf" bug. Drives named with spaces weren't the only victims of the iTunes Installer Bug. My 60 GB Hard Drive has three partitions. I installed iTunes on the first and lost all data on the second, which was a single word "That". Interestingly enough, my third partition, named "The Other Thing" was untouched. The problems with the installer went far beyond those that have already been reported.

Re:iTunes (2, Funny)

kaimiike1970 (444130) | more than 12 years ago | (#2530871)

YOur error was clearly that your middle drive should have been called 'That and'. It would have saved you.

Re:iTunes (0, Flamebait)

czardonic (526710) | more than 12 years ago | (#2530889)

Luckily, my drives were named without spaces, etc.

Who, other than a Mac user, would use spaces in their drive names?

Apple is offering to reimburse users (2, Redundant)

SiMac (409541) | more than 12 years ago | (#2530563)

According to this page [macnn.com] Apple is offering to reimburse users who lost data from iTunes 2 for Norton Utilities and data recovery services.

It's nice that they're doing the right thing.

Re:Apple is offering to reimburse users (-1, Troll)

DAldredge (2353) | more than 12 years ago | (#2530583)

It would have been even nicer if apple had tested the product before they shipped it...

Re:Apple is offering to reimburse users (1)

SiMac (409541) | more than 12 years ago | (#2530662)

I can understand how this would be uncommon among testing systems. Most testers probably don't have multiple hard drives with names like "Disk", "Disk 1", and "Disk 2". The only real combination I could think of anyone having is "MacOS" and "MacOS X".

Re:Apple is offering to reimburse users (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2530836)

Apple's default name is "Macintosh HD" (or was until recently).

Re:Apple is offering to reimburse users (1)

RogrWilco (522139) | more than 12 years ago | (#2530913)

That could be said about any software developer. I imagined it worked fine in the lab.

...although drive wiping is a pretty embarassing oversight.

Free utilities? Feh... (2, Insightful)

Cutriss (262920) | more than 12 years ago | (#2530578)

"Unfortunately, no free utilities are listed for the recovery."

Well, for what it's worth, us Mac users are already used to paying out the nose for stuff. I happen to have both Norton Utilities and TechTool Pro actually, and I don't know a Mac user who doesn't have one or the other. They're excellent resources in a pinch.

For those of you who claim that with "Apple's stuck-up attitude about it's OS" that it should come with these sorts of utilities, understand that Norton Utilities for the Mac is much different from Norton "Let's baby the infantile user" Utilities for Windows. TechTool Pro and NU bring out the power users in the Macintosh community. Oh...and IAAPOBIHAMAW. (I am a PC owner but I have a Mac at Work)

Norton Utilities (2)

Jeremy Erwin (2054) | more than 12 years ago | (#2530639)

I used to have a high opinion of Norton Utilities-- until I paid through the nose for a version (6.0 something) that didn't boot my iBook (500 Mhz) because the install disk didn't have a recent enough finder (I needed 9.1)-- and that I was unable to get it working in OSX. My problems were unrelated to the iTunes fiasco.)

Does anybody know how how to burn a bootable Norton Utilities CD (with System 9.2)? Is it posssible to do this using the Apple CD Burner program?

Re:Norton Utilities (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2530698)

Kay, don't know about apple's burner, but if you can do sessions it should be okay. I know toast works well.

step 1. burn session of an OS cd (direct copy, bootable)
step 2. burn session with app (or cd)

The os cd can be whatever version you want, but the app (or apps/utilities/whatever) should be runnable from the cd - some don't like read-only media. It helps if you use the installed version and not the installer or archive, because it's useable then.

Apple helps out (2)

Beowulfto (169354) | more than 12 years ago | (#2530579)

According to this account [macnn.com] , Apple is making it right.
He offered to reimburse me for the purchase of nortan utilities, and to have it sent to DriveSavers (apparently a company that recovers data from harddrives) on Apple's dime.

While the whole situation sucks, at least steps are being taken in the right direction. Anyone have confirmation of the account? How about accounts of other companies taking similar steps. I am quite curious.

HP success? What are you smoking? (4, Insightful)

Rick the Red (307103) | more than 12 years ago | (#2530580)

The problem is that RIAA will be riding high on HP success with this product and their grip will be firmer when it comes to controlling what you will do with your music.

This is not a problem, it's a blessing, as at $1000 HP will sell few of these. Then we can all point to the RIAA's DRM component as the reason for lousy sales (it's certainly a major reason I wouldn't buy one, even at half the price). To make this work, everyone here should write HP a nice snail-mail letter politely telling them that you were interested in the de100c until you learned of the DRM crap.

Slashdot's Clock is an Hour fast (1, Offtopic)

A Commentor (459578) | more than 12 years ago | (#2530588)

Did slashdot not update their clock?

It appears the slashdot's clock is an hour fast... I'm in the CST zone and it's about 6:15pm, EST is only 1 hour ahead and should be about 7:15pm, but the timestamps on the article and the other comments is 8:00.. ??? 45 mins off???

Re:Slashdot's Clock is an Hour fast (1)

A Commentor (459578) | more than 12 years ago | (#2530623)

So the time stamp on the article preview showed 8:00, but when posted it showed 8:16... when it should have be been 7:16, unless slashdot moved into the 'Atlantic Time' zone.

Re:Slashdot's Clock is an Hour fast (1)

red_dragon (1761) | more than 12 years ago | (#2530681)

Go to your preferences page, and choose your timezone. To me, your post appears as having been posted at 7:16pm, and I'm in EST. Everything else in this and other articles seems right, too.

Re:Slashdot's Clock is an Hour fast (1)

A Commentor (459578) | more than 12 years ago | (#2530732)

Go to your preferences page, and choose your timezone.

Ok... I feel stupid.. didn't even see that option ;-)

Re:Slashdot's Clock is an Hour fast (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2530763)

It appears to me that you posted at 19:16 military time which is 7:16pm eastern time if you are in the central time zone that would mean your comment was posted at 6:19 pm central time which is a few minutes difference from your 6:15 pm observation.
fwiw my time is 08:02 pm eastern time at the mark

mark

Overhead (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2530591)

The concept looks nice but like alot of new geewiz "technology" the 3d cube [3dwm.org] looks like alot of overhead to do what my KDE desktops button already does just fine...

first post!@ (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2530593)

flipping slashdot fucked up my whole shit!

Re: Apple (0, Troll)

joshyboy (237516) | more than 12 years ago | (#2530603)

Jesus H. You'd think that Apple, a (mostly) respectable, honest company would release some kind of 'free only for users of the service' program to restore the partitions. Making users pay for Apple's mistakes is seriously wrong.

Re: Apple (1)

joshyboy (237516) | more than 12 years ago | (#2530618)

In my hastiness, I chose to read the story here and not click on the link...blah blah blah, Apple's back on my Christmas list.

HP dec (4, Insightful)

Dolly_Llama (267016) | more than 12 years ago | (#2530607)

There is always a problem in introducing more restrictive formats into a generally open market. Ok, here goes: HP markets a box with a 40GB disc to store MP3s and a CD-RW to burn said music.

Pros: Looks pretty and fits in with the rest of my entertainment system, neato little remote, able to d/l new music (marginal in my skeptical opinion)

Cons: I gotta buy a $6 (?)dollar blank disc so that Britney isn't robbed of her royalties, potentially "signed" format preventing me free movement of my files from the device, to my PC, to my iPod, whatever. Also, broadband link to my music collection, potentially showing them, what music I have, and what I'm listening to (marketing anyone?)

Here's my solution. Buy yourself a cheap old box (I a P3 350 on ebay for under $100), throw a big HD and a CD-RW on it, and hide it in your entertainment system. Not as pretty, sure, but cheap, and no big brother RIAA.

Re:HP dec (-1)

dead_puppy (532541) | more than 12 years ago | (#2530756)

I gotta buy a $6 (?)dollar blank disc so that Britney isn't robbed of her royalties

What wrong with that? I thought open-standards were there to facilitate unity between different tech manufactures, not to facilitate IP theft?...

But I guess a cheap asshole like you wouldn't pay for an artist's work. Why don't you get a job and pay for stuff instead of stealing it? Oh, that's right, the market is in the decline for open-sores perl programmers, isn't it? You couldn't even get a job at burger king with those qualifications. Better luck next time, jackass!

Re:HP dec (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2530854)

Haha, Flamebait.
Roofle Owned Negative-Karma.

Music only CD's (4, Informative)

bbk (33798) | more than 12 years ago | (#2530608)

The HP recorder probably only writes to the "CD for audio recorders" - the ones they sell for standalone CD->CD consumer audio devices. Nothing new for that market segment.

The media generally costs twice as much as normal CD's, even though it is basically identical - the extra is for the RIAA tax that is placed on the media.

BBK

Re:Music only CD's (1)

spectral (158121) | more than 12 years ago | (#2530651)

twice as much? You mean I can buy these for $0.60? My cds cost me $30 or less for 100, and I'm not talking about crap brands either. Any of the music ones are always much, much, much higher just for a couple bits pressed into them and royalties to go to the RIAA (since how do they decide which artists get the cash?)

3dwm (0)

neroz (449747) | more than 12 years ago | (#2530611)

I'd just like to mention, 3dwm is not an X wm. So lets not go down the "wouldn't it be cool if..." because this isn't going to be of much use to us desktop users. (sadly)

HP Madness (3, Interesting)

Alien54 (180860) | more than 12 years ago | (#2530625)

What HP hasn't told us is they have been seriously whipped by DRM (Digital Rights Management). An internal FAQ has revealed that users will be unable to use CD-RWs to burn off their own CDs. You will need to buy "Digital Audio Discs" and royalties from these discs are distributed to artists via the RIAA. And you can't transfer your songs to your PC either.

the thing to do here is to go into stores and badmouth it to the sales reps, tell them that they'll get a bunch of returns and it is a bogus system because the customers can not use the device the way they think they could.

Now sales geek do _not_ like dealing with customer returns from angry customers, and likes to know about insider secrets so that customers will think he has a clue.

So talk up the bad points - special HP only CD Media, etc.

"yeh, you can't use the regular blanks, you got to use their special cd blanks. and it can only be played on their machine, no place else. It is as bad as the ink cartridges. A real dog man."

make this stuff go the way of the DIVX format. (remember that?)

Re:HP Madness (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2530752)

Just about all the movies on my college's network are in the DivX format, thank you very much.

Re:HP Madness (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2530769)

The DivX (MPEG-4) video codec has NOTHING to do with the DIVX "rental" program of Circuit City.

Re:HP Madness (-1)

DivineOb (256115) | more than 12 years ago | (#2530840)

DivX ;-)

A Few Things On A Few Subjects (3, Interesting)

Angry Black Man (533969) | more than 12 years ago | (#2530626)

First of all, you might be interested to know that 3DWM is now available for Mandrake Linux (RPMs, here [3dwm.org] ).

Second, some thoughts on how the iTunes fiasco can hurt Apple. Not only does this further embarass the company but also goes to say that their bug fixing department can't really be trusted too much. This was a rather large bug and suggests that not too much testing was done. If Apple becomes known for releasing buggy software that crashes your computer then they might dig themselves even deeper graves in the tech industry.

Onto the third subject, he says that you cannot transfer files from the HP Digital Entertainment center to your PC. Two things. One, the device has USB ports. Something tells me that people will find a way to hack it. Second, the part about not being able to use CD-RWs (you have to pay for special RIAA approved discs) is probably also hackable in some way shape or form. The RIAA will never win.

Re:A Few Things On A Few Subjects (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2530857)

>This was a rather large bug

Slashdot has mad this bigger than it really is... you would only have a problem if you had multiple partations, had spaces in your drives name, and removed iTunes 1.1 prior to the update.... it effect a reletively small % of users... like >1%

Re:A Few Things On A Few Subjects (3, Funny)

cygnus (17101) | more than 12 years ago | (#2530901)

If Apple becomes known for releasing buggy software that crashes your computer then they might dig themselves even deeper graves in the tech industry.
<sarcasm>but of course. after all, this is what has happened to Microsoft.</sarcasm>

You cant have your MP3's back!! (2, Funny)

Darth Turbogeek (142348) | more than 12 years ago | (#2530666)

Not after the RIAA did the deal to make sure the iTunes deleted all those naughty MP3 files of N'Sync and Britney! Stop it! Take the hint! Bad! Bad!

(Then again, deleteing a disk full of N'Sync and Britney tunes * IS * a good thing)

Does 3dwm have a purpose? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2530682)

Am I the only one that sees 3dwm as being totally ugly and completely pointless?

Make your own CDR-Audio? (2, Interesting)

innocent_white_lamb (151825) | more than 12 years ago | (#2530694)

Pardon my ignorance, but it's my understanding that the only difference between regular CDR's and CDR-Audio (outside of the outrageous price difference) is a "few bits" that are burned onto the media to tell the device, "Hey, I'm a CDR-Audio disk".

Accordingly, wouldn't it be possible for someone to write a utility that will write those "few bits" onto a regular CDR and solve the problem?

Or am I missing something here?

Re:Make your own CDR-Audio? (1)

scorcherer (325559) | more than 12 years ago | (#2530715)

Huh? I haven't seen different CDRs for data and audio in a long time. I've recently burned audio CDs usign Xcdroast on these 'general purpose' CDRs without problems, and they even play in my ~10 year old AKAI player without a glitch.

Re:Make your own CDR-Audio? (2)

innocent_white_lamb (151825) | more than 12 years ago | (#2530734)

You obviously didn't read the write-up at the top of the page about the new HP doohickey.

Re:Make your own CDR-Audio? (4, Informative)

Technician (215283) | more than 12 years ago | (#2530826)

Stand alone players read the header on a blank CD to get information such as what size it is, who made it, what type of die is used, etc. This format information is written and pressed in from the master. It is not alterable as it is pressed not written from the master. Consumer computer CDR's may ignore the Music CD bits. A hardware deveice may have have coding to not ignore these bits and refuse to write to a non-music CD.

RIAA walking a well-travelled road (3, Insightful)

HalfFlat (121672) | more than 12 years ago | (#2530697)

I know it's not the same, but it does feel similar to what the MPAA tried to pull with Divx. Divx of course failed because customers didn't want to buy crippled equipment, and rightly so. Perhaps HP will face a similar response here.

Region coding is another example of crippling for profit, but unlike say Divx, it didn't affect the majority of customers. In the major markets of US and Japan, only a few would seek to play DVDs from outside their native region. Europe was more badly affected, and DVD still hasn't taken off in Australia really, due to the paucity of region 4 releases outside the big titles.

HP's crippling though would become apparent everytime one tried to record on it. What is Digital Audio Media, other than a disingenuous choice of name? I'm presuming it's the same as the (expensive) CD-Audio disks, which or course are just CD-R with magic mark on it for the benefit of (presumably) the RIAA.

Similar shenanigans killed DAT as a home medium, but maybe the other features of the HP device will win out. Recording aside, it does look like a nice piece of kit.

Quake WM (2, Interesting)

Keighvin (166133) | more than 12 years ago | (#2530701)

The best stuff is always rejected. Anywho: there's another 3DUI project in the works using the Quake engine, up on Source Forge [sourceforge.net] . It's a Win32 shell replacement for now with the possibility of integration into a Linux distro later; if it survives.

Daylight Saving Time (1, Offtopic)

Seether (53766) | more than 12 years ago | (#2530704)

The first slashback of normal time (not Daylight Savings)

That should be Daylight Saving.

Note there is no "s" at the end of Saving.

Please remember this in the future.

Re:Daylight Saving Time (0)

magicslax (532351) | more than 12 years ago | (#2530741)

Oh. My. God. You found an error on Slahsdot? Stop the presses, this is real news.

/sarcasm

^_^

distributed to capitalist pigs (3, Insightful)

SubtleNuance (184325) | more than 12 years ago | (#2530736)

these discs are distributed to artists via the RIAA

that is probably not exactly correct, according to this account [salon.com] at salon.com [salon.com] , the artists are the LAST people that are likely to see any of this money...

Hp trying to cater to a non-market (3, Interesting)

Lumpy (12016) | more than 12 years ago | (#2530740)

First off, anyone deep in the mp3 world would never ever buy something like that. You already have several devices that are worlds better and cheaper. and finally..... The mp3 user already has a computer and a CD burner is $59.00 at Best buy.

No DRM crap, and no content control.

If you really want that integrated device do a searxh for linux and CAJUN on google and build one yourself for less, without DRM, and get higher quality playback (esp if you use a SB Live or better Sound card)

Nice try HP, I'll keep using my audiotron and my PC which does more and was less money with the network wiring,100base switch and wall plates for the Cat5 cable.

What happened with the iTunes installer? (0)

George Walker Bush (306766) | more than 12 years ago | (#2530761)

Anyone have a link to technical details? Sorry, I'm not a Mac person so I don't follow Mac news usually. Nevertheless, It seems quite strange that such a major bug slipped past QA!

HP device (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2530770)


I have heard that the new realplayer (RealOne) is tightly integrated with this device so I suspect the DRM stuff will be even more restrictive than might be anticipated since Real will be pushing DRM hard.

The Empire (1)

cibrPLUR (176588) | more than 12 years ago | (#2530811)

The problem is that RIAA will be riding high on HP success with this product and their grip will be firmer when it comes to controlling what you will do with your music.

The more you tighten your grip, RIAA, the more digital music files will slip through your fingers.

French death metal? (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2530841)

Does anybody know of any French death metal/industrial bands?

Nothing new here: AHRA (1)

n6mod (17734) | more than 12 years ago | (#2530900)

This isn't surprising. The RIAA crammed through a terribly nasty piece of legislation several years ago called the AHRA. This is what required the consumer electronics vendors to implement SCMS (the so-called "copyright" bit), and more or less killed DAT. It also created a tax on audio media.

Now the theory was that this tax was compensation for the copies of your music that you make. Any copies made on taxed media were presumed non-infringing. Now, RIAA hasn't kept that end of the bargain, but that shouldn't surprise you.

Why two kinds of CD-Rs? Simple. Computer have always been exempt from the AHRA, hence no required DRM (even something as feeble as SCMS) and no media tax. But the consumer CD-R burners are considered consumer electronics, and are thus subject to the AHRA. RIAA managed to lobby/browbeat/threaten the CD burner vendors into a standard for detecting taxed media and only burning to it. I think they'll play CD-Rs from a PC, but they won't burn to them.
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