Researcher Developing Tattoo Removal Cream 164
BarbaraHudson writes During tattooing, ink is injected into the skin, initiating an immune response, and cells called "macrophages" move into the area and "eat up" the ink. The macrophages carry some of the ink to the body's lymph nodes, but some that are filled with ink stay put, embedded in the skin. That's what makes the tattoo visible under the skin. Dalhousie Uiversity's Alec Falkenham is developing a topical cream that works by targeting the macrophages that have remained at the site of the tattoo. New macrophages move in to consume the previously pigment-filled macrophages and then migrate to the lymph nodes, eventually taking all the dye with them. "When comparing it to laser-based tattoo removal, in which you see the burns, the scarring, the blisters, in this case, we've designed a drug that doesn't really have much off-target effect," he said. "We're not targeting any of the normal skin cells, so you won't see a lot of inflammation. In fact, based on the process that we're actually using, we don't think there will be any inflammation at all and it would actually be anti-inflammatory."
Unfortunately.... (Score:2)
...it does cause cancer. But then, so does everything else, so who's counting?
Re: (Score:2)
Re:Unfortunately.... (Score:5, Insightful)
Trees pump out all sorts of carcinogenic crap. The Great Smokey Mountains aren't smokey from man-made pollution or fire, after all. If the canopy isn't too heavy, living outdoors means susceptibility to skin cancer. Natural food, especially plants also contains all sorts of toxins. And water in nature can contain lead and arsenic and kill you too. But if you live like that, your chance of cancer might be cut down by getting bitten by a snake or attacked by a wolf or a bear or something, or just hypothermia.
IF true... (Score:5, Interesting)
This could help out a lot of misguided kids who went and uglified themselves, can't figure out why they keep getting rejected for jobs, can't wear a nice dress without looking like an octopus puked on them, or otherwise have defecated all over their skin.
Some ex-prisoners, too. Nothing like prison tats to mark you as an outcast, with all the social and financial downsides that involves (besides the complete drop to permanently lowest-class unemployable for most, I mean.)
Most tats -- not all, a very few are actually amazing bits of art -- aren't worth getting, and even fewer are worth keeping, confirmation bias and pure stubbornness notwithstanding.
This stuff works, though, and it'll change the entire nature of the industry. The idea that these aren't permanent will change the motivation and the sense of commitment, which could cut down on some of the outright stupidity. And for those who go forward, they'd no longer be outright screwing themselves when the styles change, or they run into one of the (many) bosses who view them as a mark of abject stupidity. Even that outlook might change, based on the knowledge that they aren't permanent -- I could see some saying, "You can work the returns counter as soon as you get 'John luvz Mary' off your forehead."
Re:IF true... (Score:5, Interesting)
...Some ex-prisoners, too. Nothing like prison tats to mark you as an outcast, with all the social and financial downsides that involves (besides the complete drop to permanently lowest-class unemployable for most, I mean.)
You do not need prison tats for that. A background check will do sufficiently. That said, I m an ex felon, with some tats from before and during my time. I have a fair job at a small local IT company, and am building my own business. However, it has and continues to be a very hard struggle, and I can see why many give up and go sling dope or rob again.
Re:IF true... (Score:4, Interesting)
I wasn't talking about jobs. There, I agree, those doors become more difficult to get through no matter what once you have a record, as a felon or even just an arrest record.
I was referring to the potential classing in social situations visible prison tats provide; they can earn the bearer anything from a spitburger to refusal of housing without any formal checking at all. As can any other form of voluntary or involuntary revelation of wrongdoing, or accusation of wrongdoing. It's the same silent prejudice that the US social structure has always indulged itself with. Any non-white can relate.
Good to hear you're building your own business. It worked for me, hopefully it will for you as well.
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background checks don't mean shit for one reason: it is easy to assume a new name.
This is how convicted child sex offenders get jobs as school teachers and social workers.
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It is not as easy as you seem to think. Besides, whose name are you going to assume? How are you going to get birth cert and SS card and other
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Vanessa George was a convicted offender BEFORE she got a job in a nursery and went on to rape babies due to her having "spent" a previous conviction. Tony Blair gave his name as Charles Lynton (his actual first and second middle names) when he picked up a conviction for importuning young boys at Hyde Park public convenience, in 1983 at Bow Street Magistrates - on top of his two previous convictions in the 1970s for the SAME THING. HE went on to become Prime Minister. Shall we go there with child murderer Jo
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uh... it's a matter of public record what Blair did, I mentioned nothing about lizards (you did) so don't pull that Icke bullshit on me, and I wouldn't know about Thatcher's gastronomic habits.
Would you like an EAR to go with that, sir? (Score:4, Funny)
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a very few are actually amazing bits of art
For some reason this always gets thrown into the conversation as if it somehow justifies the practice (not saying you are, just others who I engage in this topic with). I'm not sure what qualifies as "Art", I've never seen a Tattoo that would be worthy of a gallery. Some of them could be used as a bumper stick, and some even good enough for a comic book. Either way, it's never a plausible reason to have it drawn on your skin of the rest of your life.
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Here's one I think is art, even though I don't think highly of religion: https://www.pinterest.com/pin/... [pinterest.com]
I really like this, too: https://www.flickr.com/photos/... [flickr.com]
Neither one strikes me as cartoony, and both strike me as wort
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Maybe hire him, def not the tat artist... (Score:2)
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Or we could stop having superficial bosses with superficial ideas. They tend to be dying off at faster than replacement rates so perhaps there's hope for us yet. I can't wait for the last of the suit and tie set to die off.
BTW, I have no tattoos and don't especially like them. I just like corporate attitudes a lot less.
Because nothing says "I make good decisions" like permanent marks all over the body, right?
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I'd rather have a CEO with "Backstreet Boys forever" tattooed on his forehead than one who has already sunk 2 companies and promises that everything's going to be all different this time.
But very obviously sinking companies is less of a crime than loving the wrong boyband in the CEO business if the track record of many of them is any indication. I see few with ZZ-Top tattoos, but a lot of them sinking company after company and yet still being hired again.
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Give it time. Tats for people not in the underclass wasn't a thing when they were young and stupid.
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The stupid and the tattooed?
I think we're onto something here. Can anyone name a few CEOs with tats?
Re: IF true... (Score:5, Insightful)
It's not just a corporate attitude. It turns off a lot of people. Which is ok for young people who don't give a damn what anyone but their current love interest thinks. But when real life starts to intervene as one gets older, there are a lot of people who regret the ink.
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Which makes the tattoo removal cream interesting in application. Will it lead to more people walking around as billboards for other people's art work or less. So the ability to easily remove other people's art work, will that lack of commitment to other people's art lead to more people willing to make themselves billboards or will it lead to less people ie no commitment to other peoples art so why bother. You can guess why I never, I just didn't get why I would display someone else's art, when I could not
Re: IF true... (Score:5, Interesting)
Exactly. I can teach you to do your job, but I can't teach your tats to go away. Until now?
If this works, you'll see employers requiring their employees to remove tats.
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Exactly. I can teach you to do your job, but I can't teach your tats to go away. Until now?
If this works, you'll see employers requiring their employees to remove tats.
Unfortunately, you won't see employers doing this...
You'll see tatted people still not getting the job in the first place.
This just gives them a way to remove the ink; once they figure out they aren't getting any call backs.
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Correct...
Although it is technically legal to discriminate against someone because of their tats, it will take about 10 seconds for someone to claim a "tramp stamp for religious reasons" and it will be lawsuit-city.
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Re:IF true... (Score:5, Funny)
When people say "six-figures" they don't generally count the two after the decimal point.
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Indirectly. Your chance die of something you eat or something that eats you or some other accident with nobody around to hear you scream is big enough that you don't get old enough to die of cancer.
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"...it does cause cancer. But then, so does everything else, so who's counting?"
Better cancer than a face tattoo with a typo.
Found the perfect way (Score:4, Insightful)
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If we can come up with technology that removes tattoos, permanently and easily, it will eradicate the tattoo blight.
Tattoos are a cry out for something permanent. "I have important messages to send, and it is PERMANENT! I will ALWAYS feel this way." Which leads to ugly blight patches on middle aged skin.
Of course, it could just push the self-mutilation envelope even further, i.e. piercing and radical body mod. We haven't gotten to 'Dr. Adder' [wikipedia.org]yet.
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Tattoos are a cry out for something permanent. "I have important messages to send, and it is PERMANENT! I will ALWAYS feel this way." Which leads to ugly blight patches on middle aged skin.
thats one reason, but not the only, or even mostly used reason for getting ink
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"...a permanent reminder of a temporary feeling..."
-- Jimmy Buffett
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Well, yeah, but it's a song about regrets, and removal is also about regrets.
You'll never regret the one from your friend, not when you can speak so movingly of it.
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Thanks mom glad that works for you. I on the other hand am about to get my facial tatoo darkened and get the other side above my left eye done too. Do I care what people think of it, well no. Do I care if it'll look wrinkly when I get older, hmm nope. Do I like it, well thats why I got it. Do I care if I'll never get a job, well I do have a succesfull business so who fucking cares. Would I do it if I wasn't self employed. sure would...
Well you mileage may vary.
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says the anonymous coward. Why would you care so much what I and others do with their bodies? That's a miserable life if you can't find interest in anything else.
So you walk around naked with no teandy clothes on? After all why would you wear the clothes you wear unless you like them and wanted to be seen by people.
Poor anonymous sheeple.
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I don't wear trendy clothes. I wear clothes with matt neutral colours (olive green/oak DPM, brown, black) and lots of pockets. I've always shunned "fashion" because I never wanted to be a sheep. Clothes for me are functional. If it's going to be cold out, I'll wrap up in extra layers. Given changeable local weather conditions I'm always covered anyway (I even wear a functional headpiece. Fedoras rock, not least because you can sew pockets inside the bowls and keep things in them like lighters and an emergen
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Or fake tattoo that can be removed easily! ;)
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Not all dumb decisions are made when drunk one night on vacation. Some people are indoctrinated into cultures that encourage dumb decisions over long periods and when they get out it is nice to know they can clean up their appearance along with their act.
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Re: Found the perfect way (Score:2)
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No tattooist worth their ink will give a tattoo to a drunk person, not least because alcohol is a reasonably effective anticoagulant.
I dunno they can work really well on some people, others meh. Somehow the hipster beardo tats don't resonate as much with me as the Asatru biker chick tats. Living the lifestyle matters to an extent, as does personality.
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In many cases alcohol is involved. Particularly with the more unfortunate ones.
Considering that alcohol is used to disinfect the area to be inked, you're definitely right.
Re:Found the perfect way (Score:5, Insightful)
Everything from teenage angst to pornography would be entirely different if more people foresaw the personal ramifications of their decisions.
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Exactly! I can't figure out why people get them in the first place.
Years ago I wanted to get a huge all-back Henna pic as a tribute to (my then) fiancé. Not knowing where to go for this, I started asking around some local tattoo parlors as I figured they would at least know the sort of people I should be talking to. One of the tattooists that I asked said to me "Why would you want something that is not permanent?".
He didn't understand me and I certainly didn't understand him.
Re:Found the perfect way (Score:5, Interesting)
Why would you want something that is not permanent?
I know a porn star who has some prominent tattoos that are not permanent (possibly Henna that she has re-inked). They are her trademark, but also an exit strategy from the porn biz. Retire, take a vacation to let the ink fade. Then she can go out in public as the woman who looks like that porn star, but without the tats.
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When you say "know"... I think you need to define that word for us.
re: non-permanent (Score:2)
I read an interview a while back with a tattoo artist who said he really disliked and discouraged anyone asking for a non-permanent tattoo, despite the technology allowing it now.
From his viewpoint, he was an artist, like any other artist -- and felt like his art should be designed to stick around. (Sort of like asking a famous painter to only use water-soluble markers or chalk so whoever buys the art could choose to wash it off the canvas at will.)
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If i think i want some ink, I sleep on it. not for a day, not for a week, but at least a year. If I still want that same ink in a year, I get it. Ive decided against no less than 20 designs by doing that, and i currently have 5 designs (although more sessions because i tend to add to what I have rather than using new locations)
Not Sure If Good Or Bad (Score:2, Interesting)
On the minus side, it makes it much easier for someone to remove your tattoo in your sleep.
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Remove your tattoo and replace it with something else. What a hack that would be.
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E-Ink tattoos with a programmer that works by proximity through the skin.
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This is going to happen sooner or later. RFID / Bluetooth extra.
OTOH, this cream might be of real benefit from people suffering from vitiligo.
If this actually passes Phase I trials and works, this guy is rich. But macrophages and anything to do with immune system is devilishly complex. I wouldn't be surprised if it did something like make you grow feathers on the treated skin. Will be interesting to follow.
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On the plus side, it makes it much easier to get rid of that tattoo I got last night while drunk.
FTFA: it works best on tattoos that are more than 2yrs old.
On the minus side, it makes it much easier for someone to remove your tattoo in your sleep.
FTFA: it will apparently take several treatments, it is not instant.
But I must admit I was thinking of those same pros and cons before I actually read the article....
But (Score:1)
Why on earth would I want tattooed lymph nodes? So my pancreas can look at them and say "Cool! man"?
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Why? (Score:5, Funny)
No ragrets
Pictures... (Score:1)
... or it didn't happen.
Nothing could possi (Score:3)
So instead of having the tattoo ink spread out in a relatively benign part of my dermis, instead I'll concentrate it in my lymph nodes. It feels like this could cause problems. How does the body clear the ink from the lymph nodes? Is it broken down; or does it just stay there, possibly clogging the nodes, or acting as an irritant and maybe causing a long-term cancer risk.
Maybe we could also turn the research around. If there were ways to make less digestable or less "attractive" inks, or to pre-train the macrophages to ignore the ink particles, you could make longer-lasting tattoos that need less ink to apply and fewer touchups.
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It's already getting concentrated in your lymph nodes - this just gets the rest of it. If you object to ink in your lymph nodes, definitely do not inject yourself with ink in the first place.
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So instead of having the tattoo ink spread out in a relatively benign part of my dermis, instead I'll concentrate it in my lymph nodes.
I was under the impression that the macrophages would then be broken down and their contents recycled or disposed of - that this migration was just one step in the process. Is this not true?
There are a lot of macrophages migrating to the lymph nodes over a lifetime. If they just went there, died, and left their contents the nodes would swell with age and never shrink - ye
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Email address of an inked friend (Score:1)
Yes, she has issues.
Practical uses (Score:1)
I can see it already: a heavily tattooed guy passes out at the party. Somebody then uses the cream to draw a giant dick on his back.
Best prank ever. Or worst, depending on the gang affiliations.
don't care if it works or not (Score:2)
for $20 I'll do it (Score:2)
Pretty sure that with $20 and a trip to Home Depot I could create a tattoo removal cream ;-)
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But not one that removes the tattoo without removing the skin.
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But not one that removes the tattoo without removing the skin.
Where was that requirement in the spec? I don't recall seeing it anywhere ;-)
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Are you a Chinese Engineer? Like in the tale of them being tasked with adding a button to a user interface and they put the button on the inside of the non-consumer serviceable device. Asked why, the reply was that it's cheaper to put it there and it was nowhere in the spec that it must be possible to actually press the button.
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Are you a Chinese Engineer?
No. But given the great success of far east engineers in taking our jobs, I am trying my best to learn from them the secrets of their success.
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On fashion and graffiti (Score:4, Insightful)
I keep wondering what will happen when the fashion for tattoos fades away but the tattoos themselves don't. The (mainstream) people who get tattoos don't seem to realize that today's fashion generally looks stupid after a decade or so. But unlike other fashions, tattoos are intended to be permanent. In fact, that's the primary selling point. Fortunately, if necessity is the mother invention, maybe technology like that described in TFA will provide answers.
Another thing in this category is gauges [wikipedia.org]. Even if one assumes that people with gauges look cool now, they're unlikely to look cool in a decade. (Witness bell bottom pants from the 1970s as seen from the 1980s or later.) Won't they look stupid in the future with either a gauge or a giant hole in their dangling earlobes?
As an old timer, the whole idea of body graffiti seems a bit strange to me. Usually, graffiti is applied to someone elses' property, not your own. At best, graffiti is art, but at worst, it is just vandalism. So why would you vandalize the single-most valuable piece of property you own - your body?
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...which is why, according to The Guardian, "one of the fastest-growing cosmetic procedures in the UK is repairing stretched earlobes" (http://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2014/oct/19/cosmetic-surgeons-repair-stretched-earlobes).
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Those Nordic/Gaelic patterns that are popular now looked old and bland at least 5 years ago, if not before. Yet people still seem to want them.
Same with Chinese and Japanese characters. There was a girl in the paper a few years ago who accidentally got a Chinese tattoo saying "supermarket" on her arm, not understanding that just because it sounds like her name doesn't mean it is her name in that language. I met a guy called "Paul" with "Paula" in Japanese on his forearm once.
Tasteless and stupid tattoos wil
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Tattoos and piercings have existed for about as long as Christianity. I'll expect that "trend" to end as soon as the religious "trend".
And in fact go back at least 3000 years before the birth of Christianity
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%... [wikipedia.org]
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Tattoos and piercings have existed for about as long as Christianity. I'll expect that "trend" to end as soon as the religious "trend".
Certainly, they've existed over the ages, particular in primitive tribes, including sailors and bikers. What's new - in my lifetime, at least - is that it's become such a mainstream thing. They're not just for sailors, bikers, and aboriginals anymore. But they will be again. And probably before bell-bottoms come back.
Tattoos used to be about being a rebel - they were a clear statement that you weren't a conformist. So, look for the sailors and bikers to start demonstrating that they're outside the main
Topical cream already exists (Score:2)
Pretty cool video (Score:2)
Given all the tattoo hate here (Score:5, Insightful)
I'm a math/science guy, and I have math symbols on my arms. If I ever regret my affection towards math and science, I might as well have some skin torn off.
Besides, the capital Sigma works great whenever somebody asks me "Are you series?".
Re:Given all the tattoo hate here (Score:4, Insightful)
I'm a math/science guy, and I have math symbols on my arms. If I ever regret my affection towards math and science, I might as well have some skin torn off.
Besides, the capital Sigma works great whenever somebody asks me "Are you series?".
Not sure if the first part was also part of the joke. But as someone older than 30, I can tell you that you probably won't regret your affection for maths, but you will probably (hopefully you will grow up one day) regret thinking that the idea of drawing things that you like on your skin is going to impress anyone.
Looking like a cool 20 year old is cool when you're 20. Not so much when you're 40.
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Not everybody is drawing on their skin to impress someone.
This. My signs are rarely visible, even most t-shirts cover them, and I don't exactly go around flaunting them. It's a personal thing that tells something about me, for those who like to know. It's also a kind of joke about the perceived disjoint between those who have tattoos and those who work in education or research. That said, I've seen a surprising amount of ink in the teachers' lounges, and one of my most inked friends is an elementary school teacher; the university people seem more conservative tha
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Some people might prefer an expensive suit or a fancy car to maintain a certain kind of image, and they don't seem to get the same kind of hate -- though that kind of image is usually associated with a status that attracts haters for other reasons.
Because (and the fact that I have to explain this is part of the problem) a suit or car, no matter how cool this year, will look dated in ten years. Anyone with a half a brain knows this, and will upgrade their suit and car with the times to maintain the current image. You however will be stuck with your idea of cool in 2015 for the rest of your life, and everyone else will look down their noses at your poor decision making skills for the rest of your life.
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You however will be stuck with your idea of cool in 2015 for the rest of your life, and everyone else will look down their noses at your poor decision making skills for the rest of your life.
Well, I'm afraid my idea of "cool" was thousands of years old when I first got into it, so I guess I'm a lost cause anyway ;)
(I got my math symbols after my first year of working as a full-time teacher, way after my first degree, so it's not exactly some drunken teenage idea. That was over 10 years ago. I never used the word "cool" because I think it refers to something trendy and ephemeral. However, I also don't believe that growing up means losing everything that's fun and playful.)
Good for other things than tats? (Score:3)
If the macrophages do this with tattoo ink, they no doubt do it with other things, as well.
I wonder if using this cream to remove ALL the dead-macrophages-loaded-with-junk from the skin will result in effectively "younger" skin?
Re:Good for other things than tats? (Score:5, Funny)
If the macrophages do this with tattoo ink, they no doubt do it with other things, as well.
I wonder if using this cream to remove ALL the dead-macrophages-loaded-with-junk from the skin will result in effectively "younger" skin?
If your hypothesis is proven accurate, the new product will remove ink and years off your appearance.
Cha-ching!
The only pharmaceutical product imaginably more profitable would be a weight loss cream that makes your dick hard.
Ever see a tattoo after 30+ years? (Score:5, Interesting)
I had a friend who was in the Marines when he was in this late teen years in the early 1950's. In the mid 80's he showed it to me. I was just a round blotch of blue/gray.
Tattoo ink migrates over time. Muscle and skin age and change their shape. It's guaranteed that a tattoo will not stay the same as time passes. It will only look worse.
By the way, the reason that sailors and marines get tattoos is in case they are blown to pieces. A distinctive tattoo on a limb makes it more likely that that body part will be recognized by the survivors. That's why there are often tats on different limbs.
Whens someone gets a tat, and then says that it's to mark a point in their life, I often wonder if that means they are planning for future senility, or being blown apart. Just wondering...
Perfect, I eat myself (Score:2)
You're going to train my immune system to eat itself. Sounds like an auto-immune disease, plain and simple.
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Re:Inking your skin... (Score:5, Informative)
Got a tattoo in college. I really liked it for about 10 years, then I decided I was done with it and wanted to move on to another phase of my life. So I did laser removal, and I would say it's 99% gone. You'd have to be pretty close and know where to look to find any trace of it. In short, I rubbed a thousand dollars on it and it came right off!
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Re:Inking your skin... (Score:5, Informative)
I don't think so. When I was a college student it never occurred to me that I would want to remove the tattoo. It perfectly suited me, and I didn't understand that I would change over time and outgrow the tattoo. This is how kids think. They think that the way things are will remain forever. Forever young!
Some advice for people considering this path -- only get a black ink tattoo. They are much easier to remove than a colored tattoo. The laser has to be tuned to the wavelength of the ink color, so if you have a tattoo that is black, red and green then you need to hit it with three separate lasers and the way one color responds may be different than other colors.
Also, set your expectations. By the time my treatments were complete (6 treatments, each 6 weeks apart), the tattoo was about 2/3 faded. then my body flushed the rest out over the following year. So I can't complain!
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latex sleeves cost next to nothing, and you can match it to your skin tone.
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Yes but I prefer the ones that are ribbed and give a tingling sensation.
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giggity!
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and what's wrong with being a biker?
We're a free-spirited, generally mechanically very able, friendly bunch.
Unlike the cockheads in cars who think they own the road. I paid my local taxes, I have as much right to use the road as you. Just because you can't ride a bike doesn't give you the right to run me off mine.
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I've got nothing wrong with the bikers. But I hate with a passion the stupid bikes with obnoxiously loud pipes thundering down my street all day.
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ah, the crotch rocketeers. See, they won't stop after you on a busy twin track and ask if you need help. They'll gun it and blast past you so fast the draft blows you over. I can only apologise for them, they think they're bikers, they're really just kids.
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Well, they started to become popular in the late 70s, or roughly 35 years ago, so there are no doubt grannies, even great-grannies running around with them.
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I'm guessing it doesn't work like a magic eraser.