More Copy Protected CDs? 406
Mahonrimoriancumer writes "There are a lot of CDs that have been released recently which can't be played on the computer or *laugh* ripped. Apparently only a few markets have the 'copy protected' CDs while the rest don't. Here is a list of some that are 'protected.' Does anyone know of other CDs with this problem?" I own at least one CD on that list and it ripped just fine, so perhaps that are different versions of the CDs on the market
I heard of Sting (Score:3, Insightful)
The 'anti-rip' technologies all work by exploiting bugs in the CDROM drivers that cause the ripping software to break. If the CDROM drivers start to break on large numbers of CDs then the manufacturers will be forced to fix them.
I suspect that Amazon and the like will find these CDs unecconomic to sell as the number of returns is going to be high. The CDROM driver bugs are not going to be unique to CDROMs. Expect Amazon to start pro-actively warning customers that certain CDs have a very high rate of return.
Re:I heard of Sting (Score:4, Interesting)
What about a canary trap? (Score:5, Interesting)
If you don't know, the paper version of the canary trap is the idea of altering the punctuation, but not the text of a document in a certain way uniquely for each copy of the document you give out, and keeping track of who gets what. Then, if a copy of your document is leaked to the media, and they show text from the document, you can find the snitch in your organisation.
Couldn't something similar be done with music? Not that it wouldn't be possible to undo, but if you don't know exactly what's been done, it's difficult to be 100% sure that you've undone the trap. Then the RIAA couldn't threaten very serious penalties. First off, you'd be certain to lose your job, but they couldn't also conceivably go after you for lost revenue for every copy of the song derived from the copy you originally made. And they'd have a method to prove that they came from your copy too. That'd be enough to bankrupt anyone.
Re:What about a canary trap? (Score:3, Informative)
Yes they could do it
Also - to get to your first question, what would stop them? We have a contract that says basically we get these 'raw' coppies so we can air and play them. For example, they would be in violation if they sent us a remix of a song that edits something out when we requested it w/o. If they watermarked our music and then tried to bust our station, they too would be in breech of contract. Thus, it would turn to be a bunch of lawcrap where in the end nothing happens and both groups end up jerking eachother off...
Welcome to radio
Re:What about a canary trap? (Score:5, Interesting)
As a point of interest, it is my understanding that film studios already do this with movies. Each theatrical print (35mm film) has an individual serial number and each print is somehow slightly different than any of the others. Therefore, when a print gets hijacked and pirated, the studio can tell which print serial number it is, and can then trace that print back through all of the theatres where it has been played, theoretically being able to isolate the "culprit" who leaked that print.
On the other hand, prints have been flat-out STOLEN from theatres or from shipping depots (bus stations, airports, warehouses) on occasion. Some prints of high-profile movies are even deliberately mis-labelled on the outside of the shipping cans. For example, Godzilla was "The Big One" according to the sticker on the can as I recall.
Re:What about a canary trap? (Score:3, Interesting)
It's an interesting idea, but the problem lies thusly:
CDs are pressed, not burned. The manufacturing plants get a master, press x thousand discs, and ship them all. Each unique copy of a disc would need a separate master, which would be a pain in the ass (I would imagine), considering how many copies they sell.
If they did two masters and sold 80,000 copies, then they would be able to limit the search to 40,000 of those users.
Now, if they, say, did this in two ways - one for radio stations, music videos (with the advent of MTV being broadcast digitally in Canada, we can record CD-quality audio from MTV now), etc, and one for 'the rest of us', they'd be able to find out if it was ripped by end-listeners or radio stations.
Of course, lots of people rip CDs as soon as they get home - I know I do, iTunes makes my life easier, since I have one playlist with all Garbage songs (even the B-Sides! mwaha!) - and the majority of people who use napter/aimster/gnutella/wangshare/whatever share the dir they rip their MP3s to, so the point becomes moot as the signal-to-noise ratio goes all to hell as soon as the CD is released.
Oh well. Still, a neat idea.
--Dan
CD rips (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:CD rips (Score:3, Insightful)
Somehow, a SoaD CD with copy protection just seems a little oxymoronic. "They're trying to build a prison for you and me....."
Interesting article (Score:4, Interesting)
I remember reading somewhere that there was a copy protected cd released, that you could play on your computer, it had propeitary software and 128 kbps mp3s.
Re:Interesting article (Score:2, Interesting)
The cd contains a Windows only application that will allow the user to listen to all the songs on their computer in an mp3 format without them able to rip the cd. Therefore computers with anything but Windows will not be able to run the program.
How's that for being able to choose the medium you wish to listen to music?
InShadows
Unbreakable copy protection! (Score:5, Funny)
Sadly, the disc is unplayable on any of my equipment. Perhaps the publisher anticipated that kind of problem, and that's why they didn't label it, and included it for free on the top of a spindle of CD-R's I bought.
Hopefully, someday all copy-protected CD's will be distributed that way.
Re:Unbreakable copy protection! (Score:3, Funny)
Isn't it impossible for that to be written on a blank page?
Re:Unbreakable copy protection! (Score:2)
#!
if [ x$1 = x ]; then
echo usage: $0 \<destination\> >&2
exit 1
fi
dd -if=/dev/zero -of=$1
Re:Unbreakable copy protection! (Score:4, Funny)
How does that help? (Score:5, Funny)
As far as i'm concerned... such protection just lowers overall quality of CD.
One example of ripped at the source (Score:3, Interesting)
Xix.
Stop using the phrase Copy Protection... (Score:5, Insightful)
This has a number of advantages:
- copy protection implies that copying is bad (which it is not)
- copy prevention implies that the music industry is preventing me from making a legitimate copy. (which it is)
- copy prevention (somewhat) signifies that it is futile to prevent people to make copies. They can try and they might stop 90% of the people but it just takes 1 person to get this on MP3 and upload it to the net for the cat to be out of the bag
.
Re:Stop using the phrase Copy Protection... (Score:4, Insightful)
Amen, amen to that, try also "copy interference". Because they're not preventing any copying, they just make you do it differently.
Or heck just "intentionally damaged" or whatever, anything to get away from their terminology.
Re:Stop using the phrase Copy Protection... (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Stop using the phrase Copy Protection... (Score:2, Interesting)
RIAA, you can kiss my behind, I have started my boycott of your CDs. Total loss so far? $20. Since I have purchased, on average, 75-100 musical releases a year for the past several years, consider your potential annual "loss" to be anywhere from $1000-$2000. To the artists: this also means I won't be going to your shows, since I probably won't have heard your latest album enough to care.
CD corruption (Score:2, Interesting)
Another one to the list (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:Another one to the list (Score:4, Informative)
Copy-protection shouldn't affect Winamp anyhow since it only affects digital playback, and Winamp uses analog playback (unless you swap out the CD player plugin with one that uses digital ripping).
Re:Another one to the list (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Another one to the list (Score:2, Informative)
Since the CD will play in CD drive it likely isn't protected.
get a mac! (Score:3, Informative)
Now I wonder how long it'll be until someone sues Apple for making too good a CD player. Or forces them to downgrade their drivers.
Re:get a mac! (Score:4, Informative)
Music industry wants to have its cake and eat it. (Score:2, Redundant)
The music industry needs to take a look at its model of doing business. The current model is fundamentally flawed.
How to copy a MediaCloq protected CD (Score:5, Interesting)
Let me start off by saying that I don't even know for sure if the protection I am talking about is indeed MediaCloQ(TM)....... The symptoms look like it, but I read that MediaCloQ(TM) protected CD's would transfer you to the MediaCloQ(TM) website automatically (as soon as you insert the CD into a CD-ROM drive) where you can download music files.
I recently wanted to make a personal backup of my own CD called "The Loveparade Compilation 2001". CD2 copied fine, but CD1 could not be read by any CD-ROM player or CD burner. It would however play in any normal audio CD player. Now as a decent reverser you must understand my frustration
So, next evenings I spend trying to understand what was going on here. I found out that after insertion the laser first goes to the center of the CD (the TOC or Table Of Contents where the index of the CD is stored). After this the laser went to somewhere on the outer side of the disc and started to try to read there. This is where the reader would never stop doing this and some players will hang forever in this phase.....
So what idea could be easier than to prevent the reader from reading this outer part? I made 3 paper stickers of about 25 x 20 mm and placed them on the outer side of the CD. Now the reader would read the inner TOC, then go to the outside again and after not being able to read anything there because of the stickers, the reader would be 'smart' enough to decide to stick with the inner TOC, go back to the center and read this TOC as the one and only TOC
I am certainly not an expert on CD readers but I think this is what is going on here. If anyone has better ideas, let me know. This protected CD has a so called Multi Session TOC. This is the same when you burn a CD-R and set it to MODE2 / Multi Session when you burn an empty CD-R for the first time. After this a MODE2 CD-R can have multi sessions appended afterwards. For every new session a new TOC is written (with the old data about the files already on the CD-R included). My theory is that this protected CD has also a MODE2 / Multi Session TOC which makes a CD-ROM player and burner decide to search for the latest TOC from the outside to the inner side. With the placed stickers it will not be able to and most CD-ROM players will decide to stick with the center TOC.
So now the CD-ROM player will read the CD but unfortunately it will not be able to read the last tracks because my stickers are placed there. So now a second trick is needed. I used a paperclip to push into the little hole on the front of my CD-ROM player to open the door manually. The reader has no idea at all I was doing this so it came out spinning
Guess what? I could now play and grab all tracks as I would do with any non-protected CD! I must say that on one CD-ROM player (TEAC) I had to skip the first block (or 0.01 seconds) in Easy CD-DA Extractor for the first track only (still have no clue why). My Plextor 16/10/40A burner and another CD-ROM player had no problem with this first track.
I did try to move the stickers to the outside of the CD until my audio CD player would just be able to play the last track until the last second but the CD-ROM player would not read it anymore. In fact, I would have to move the stickers a whole lot more to the center of the CD before it would be able to read it again. It might be possible that there is no TOC at all on the outside; the inner TOC just points to some music track which will of course not be understood by the CD-ROM player as a valid MODE2 TOC...... The reason why this CD does not automatically transfer you to the MediaCloQ(TM) website like a MediaCloQ(TM) protected CD would do could be that the protection I discuss here isn't MediaCloQ(TM) at all. But it could also be due to the fact that this CD was almost full and that there was simply no space left for a real TOC and a valid data section where an autorun.inf file could be stored which transfers you to their website.
Now to summarize this little trick:
Place 3 (or maybe more on better CD-ROM players / burners) non-transparent stickers of about 25 x 20 mm on the outside of your CD along the edge. Make sure that they wont stick outside of the CD and press them well, otherwise your CD-ROM player will start making funny noises
Insert the CD into your CD-ROM player and see if the CD-ROM player accepts it (you can see the tracks in your Explorer). If not you can try to move the stickers a bit to the center or place more stickers. Note that my laptop CD-ROM player and one burner I've seen would not be able to read it at all so no guarantees are given here......
Now we have to wait until we are sure that the CD is not spinning anymore. After the CD-ROM player accepted the CD it can still be spinning for a few minutes (my TEAC stopped after more than 3 minutes). I guess to be sure, wait about 5 minutes. If you are impatient here you risk to eject it while it is still spinning and this could damage your CD and who knows the laser of your CD-ROM player, so be warned!
Now using a fine screw driver or a paper clip push into the little hole in the door of your CD-ROM player. The trays of some CD-ROM players can be opened totally without the CD-ROM player noticing but I saw one that would re-read the CD after closing the tray again so I would have to open it until halfway, until I was just able to get the CD out. Push your paper clip into the hole until the tray opens. Then pull it out manually (be careful and do it slowly!).
Now remove the CD, remove the stickers and place it back.
Now push the tray to close it again. Do it carefully. At the end you have to push a little faster to make sure the CD will be inserted entirely. If not, take it out again and try again.
Now you can play it and grab it like you would normally do
Enjoy and be happy !
Re:How to copy a MediaCloq protected CD (Score:5, Funny)
just became "circumvention devices" under the
Digital Millenium Copyright Act. Expect the
management of your local Office Depot to be hauled in by the FBI next week....
Re:How to copy a MediaCloq protected CD (Score:2, Funny)
Does this mean that that we can finally get rid of "Clippy" and end the Microsoft trial for good?
Re:How to copy a MediaCloq protected CD (Score:3, Insightful)
It is imperative now to rip and place on the internet EVERY track from EVERY protected CD. I dont care if it's crapola music, it has to be done. The only statment that these morons that run the record companies can understand is a marketing trick (and that is all that this is) is a miserable and complete failure.
The ripping ratio of these "protected" CD's must massively exceed that of normal CD's. It needs to get the attention of major media, and needs to make the idea of audio CD protection look like a really really stupid idea to the general brain dead american. (97.6% of the population)
one more thing to do (Score:2, Informative)
That page offers a list of things you can do, like not supporting the labels or buying and returning the CDs, etc. If you're the amoral type, here's something else you can do with a "factory-damaged" CD:
Rip the CD, analog style or with a Mac or whatever, and put some or all of the tracks on your web site. Blatantly label them and submit the page to search engines. Put a note there saying something like "these tracks came from a copy-prevention enabled CD, so if you see any MP3's here, you're imagining things!"
Then when the lawyerbots come by, take it down, and reply to them apologizing profusely and saying how important you think copyright is and all that jazz. I think if the labels see all these tracks traded on the internet exactly the same as all the other CDs, they'll start knocking on the door of the CD-protection company asking, what the hell did we just pay you 50million$ for??
Of course, I prefer just avoiding the labels and their music completely. Here's my rule of thumb: if you think you could send an email to both the head of the label and the artist, and get a personal reply within a few days, that CD is probably not going to be crippled. In fact after getting the CD be sure to email both with your compliments. And some of the bigger indie labels have also taken a anti-anti-copying stand too, like Projekt [projekt.com].
Re:one more thing to do (Score:3, Informative)
More likely, the lawyerbots will work as hard as they can to prevent the sale of "circumvention devices" such as software that can circumvent copy protetion. Look for them to go after open source projects such as cdparanoia in the near future.
Re:one more thing to do (Score:5, Insightful)
Household CD Player +
pair of phono to quarter inch jack +
Decent soundcard +
Computer +
WAV Recorder +
WAV -> MP3 converter
= circumvention device.
How about :
Radio + Cassette tape + a bit of patience = circumvention device.
How about :
Sky Satellite dish + Digital box + The Box (music channel) + Decent TV Card + computer
= circumvention device letting you get music videos as a bonus
Think that the computer is the common denominator? How about:
Home CD PLayer +
Phono leads +
mp3 recorder
= circumvention device
Hmm... maybe ban phono -> jack leads?
finally:
Home CD player +
Speakers +
Microphone +
Computer +
WAV Recorder +
WAV -> MP3 convertor
So it looks like the only way to get rid of all circumvention devices is, in fact, to ban computers, leads, speakers, microphones, mp3's, wavs, and, just to be on the safe side, let's lock up anyone who happens to hum whilst walking down the street, just in case they are humming copy-protected material.
Class Action Suit (Score:5, Interesting)
1. It seems to me that someone would be able to find equipment that the CDs actually sound worse in.
2. Prove the lost ability to make a backup copy.
3. Show how you are suddenly limited to where you can play the $20 cd at.
Without a warning, I just can't believe its possible for them to do this. However, at the same time, I'm uncertain what law says "this cd must play in all cd players." I understand it isn't our right to play the cd anywhere, but at the same time, it is also our consumer right to know what we are buying can and can not do.
Re:Class Action Suit (Score:5, Insightful)
Wha??!!!?? One of the reasons that I am completely against closed source software, cd copy "protection" , and the whole anti-DeCSS thing is because I believe that when I shell out my hard earned cash for something that means that I have the right to do whatever the hell I want with it because IT'S MINE!!!!!!
That's why whenever I am presented with a EULA I respectfully click "I do not agree". I will not enter into any "user agreement" with any company. If I buy something I reserve the right to do whatever the hell I want with it plain and simple...
With one minor exception: taking credit for the work.
I can not copy a book and say I wrote it. That's playgarism and is not fair to the author. But I can give that book to a friend when I'm done reading it because it's mine, I payed for it and I can do whatever I want with it.
--
Garett
Re:Class Action Suit (Score:3, Insightful)
No one owns creative works. Their very nature causes them to be intrinsically unownable. Hence the need for a special set of doctrines and laws collectively known as copyright, when notions of property date back to time immemorable.
Like a lot of people you're confusing the copyright -- which is an optional, owned, temporary, limited, grant of monopoly to an author by the government if it desires to so make a grant -- and the work -- which is the actual story, or whatnot -- and the fixation -- which is the medium within which a work is carried, and which is ordinary property.
It's really a bad idea to even imagine for a moment that artists (I'm an artist, btw) are entitled to squat. Copyrights are gifts. They are in fact, very, very conditional gifts, and the practice of giving them really is in order to satisfy interests that don't necessarily coincide with our own at all.
For example, you mention Fair Use, (but not very accurately -- what's this "loan" B.S.?) but wrongly think that it is an agreement between authors and readers. In fact, it is a condition of the gift imposed by the government. Authors can rant and rail against fair use and be squarely opposed to it all they like -- but they have no say in the matter. (aside from ordinary democratic processes, natch) Copyright is simply limited from the get go, and it is the government, not any private parties, that makes the rules, and even decides whether or not copyright will exist, and if so, whether or not it will exist for certain things. (e.g. go back to ~1950 and discover that software is uncopyrightable; go back to ~1800 and discover that paintings and songs are uncopyrightable)
Simply buying a copy of a work doesn't necessarily mean that you can do whatever you want with it, provided that it is still copyrighted (public domain works are wide open of course) BUT it is not the author's place to make that decision, unless it was required prior, and as a condition of receiving, the copy of the work.
(e.g. publishers cannot require that used books be sold for a particular price, or not sold at all, unless that was a condition of getting the books in the first place.)
Re:Class Action Suit (Score:3, Insightful)
I'm actually a musician. And a free software developer. I would like to think that what I create is "of value".
I agree with you that the words of the author are the property of the author. But the book as a whole that I payed for is mine and no one is going to tell me what I can and can not do with that book.
Similarly, the same applies to a cd. If I want to rip a cd that I own I have every right to do so. I may not have the right to re-distribute the songs that I ripped since I don't own the songs themselves - just the cd. But I can do whatever I want with the cd. I can give it to a friend; I can make copies of it; I can play it in my computer, car sterio, dvd player, mp3 player, toilet, microwave, vacuum or whatever else I may want to try and play a cd in etc. No one will take that right away from me because I payed for the damn thing.
...They will try though. I just hope for everyone's sake that they stop before they run out of money.
--
Garett
Re:Class Action Suit (Score:5, Funny)
Nuts to that. Apologies to Dr. Seuss.
RIAA guy
RIAA guy
Guy RIAA
That RIAA guy
That RIAA guy!
I do not like that RIAA guy.
Can you play CDs you buy?
I cannot play them,
RIAA guy.
I cannot play CDs I buy.
Can you play them
Here or there?
I cannot play them here or there.
I cannot play them anywhere.
I cannot play CDs I buy.
I cannot play them,
RIAA guy.
Can you play them in a house?
Can you play them with a mouse?
I cannot play them in a house.
I cannot play them with a mouse.
I cannot play them here or there.
I cannot play them anywhere.
I cannot play CDs I buy.
I cannot play them, RIAA guy.
Can you play them in a box?
Can you play them with a fox?
Not in a box.
Not with a fox.
Not in a house.
Not with a mouse.
I cannot play them here or there.
I cannot play them anywhere.
I cannot play CDs I buy.
I cannot play them, RIAA guy.
Would you? Could you?
in a car?
Rent them! Lease them!
Here they are.
I would not, could not,
in a car.
You may rent them.
You will see.
You may lease them week by week.
I would not lease them week by week.
Nor year by year! Please let me be.
I cannot play them in a box.
I cannot play them with a fox.
I cannot play them in a house.
I cannot play them with a mouse.
I cannot play them here or there.
I cannot play them anywhere.
I cannot play CDs I buy.
I cannot play them, RIAA guy.
A train! A train!
A train! A train!
Could you, would you on a train?
Not on a train! Not week by week!
Not year by year! RIAA! Let me be!
I should not, could not, in a box.
I could not, should not, with a fox.
I cannot play them with a mouse.
I cannot play them in a house.
I cannot play them here or there.
I cannot play them anywhere.
I cannot play them, RIAA guy.
Say!
In the dark?
Here in the dark!
Should I keep you in the dark?
You should not keep me in the dark.
Would you, could you, in the rain?
I would not, could not, in the rain.
Not in the dark. Not on a train,
Not in a car, Not in a tree.
I cannot play them, RIAA, you see.
Not in a house. Not in a box.
Not with a mouse. Not with a fox.
I cannot play them here or there.
I cannot play them anywhere!
You cannot play CDs you buy?
I cannot play them, RIAA guy.
Could you, would you, with a goat?
I would not, could not with Hilary Rosen!
Would you, could you, on a boat?
I could not, would not, on a boat.
I will not, will not, with that goat.
I cannot play them in the rain.
I cannot play them on a train.
Not in the dark! Not week by week!
Not in a car! You let me be!
I cannot play them in a box.
I cannot play them with a fox. I cannot play them in a house.
I cannot play them with a mouse.
I cannot play them here or there.
I cannot play them ANYWHERE!
I cannot play CDs I buy!
I cannot play them, RIAA guy.
You cannot play them.
SO you say.
Rent them! Lease them!
And you may.
Pay up and you may I say.
RIAA!
If you will let me be,
I will rip them.
You will see.
Say!
I like CDs I buy!
I do!! I OWN them, RIAA guy!
And I would play them in a boat!
And I would play them despite your goat...
And I will play them in the rain.
And in the dark. And on a train.
And in a car. And in a tree.
Fair use is good so good you see!
So I will play them in a box.
And I will play them with a fox.
And I will play them in a house.
And I will play them with a mouse.
And I will play them here and there.
Say! I will play them ANYWHERE!
I do so like CDs I buy!
Screw you!
Screw you, RIAA guy!
(feel free to spread that around... just link back to my website [wgz.org], if you do)
CD "Protection" possibly a felony in Germany (Score:5, Interesting)
From the artical (my Translation:)
"Possibly soon German judges will have to deal with the question whether intentional violation of the Red Book Standard by manipulating the TOC is a criminal use of 'incorrect or incomplete data'. It will be also important wether digitally reading an Audio CD into computer memory is considered as data processing."
The German Criminal Law has in the section "fraud" a the special Paragraph 263a about "computer fraud", which I translate as follows(IANAL, but I am married to one):
263a StGB Computer fraud
(1) Who damages the assets of another person with the intention of providing himself or a third person an illegal pecuniary advantage by the fact that he affects the result of a data processing procedure by incorrect design of the program, by use of incorrect or incomplete data, by unauthorized use of data or otherwise by unauthorized interference with the process is punished with imprisonment up to five years or with fine.
This paragraph is usually used against people tampering with ATMs or a company's computer systems, but I see no reason why my personal computer should not be protected by this law, and for me it is unquestionable that all these CD copy prevention systems are feeding incomplete an incorrect data to my computer, and reading a CD into the memory of my computer is definitely a data processing procedure.
As I know the courts, proving damage is often the crucial point. I think that a clear label stating "This CD is intentionally damaged so that it does not play on most computers and some CD players." would probably save the publisher, but anything short of this IMO constitutes fraud.
In this case there was no warning sign on the CD, so when I buy such a CD I do not get what I pay for. If I bought the CD just to listen to it on my MP3 Player or use a duplicate in my car stereo (my CDs do not last very long when using them in the car), then the value of the CD is zero. And even if I get a refund, it probably takes more than an hour to manage it all, which is a significant amount that easily surmounts the value of the CD: I am tricked, my assets are damaged. This is even simple fraud under 263 StGB, and even a particularly serious case under subsection 3 (repeatedly defrauding a large number of people), which is punished with imprisonement up to ten years.
I am very curious about the outcome of this case, but I would be happy if courts would stop greedy corporations trying to screw me with intentionally damaged products.
If not, I will react like many people: I will stop to buy any music at all; I will fill up a terabyte disk with enough music for the rest of my life in one afternoon, and those record companies can fuck themself.
p.
Re:Class Action Suit (Score:2)
But this doesn't matter anymore, right? The DMCA allows the publisher to interfere with this right. That's why it was passed. Their rights trump ours now, that's the whole point of the law.
The DMCA will need to be attacked directly, and I am not sure how since 'backup copies' may not even be a Constitutional issue. Of course, IANAL.
Re:Class Action Suit (Score:2, Interesting)
Nevermind computers... this scenario is why I cannot comprehend why record companies would risk implementing such a stupid and inferior copy prevention scheme.
Copy Protectoin only affect windows? (Score:2)
I own at least one CD on that list and it ripped just fine, so perhaps that are different versions of the CDs on the market
Hmmm, what OS did you copy the CD under? In the link they mention that "Copy Protection" doesn't affect Macs and Linux.
Re:Copy Protectoin only affect windows? (Score:3, Informative)
I am told however that cdparanoia (which is *nix-only and very popular on Linux) can properly rip copy-protected CDs (I assume by using the error-correction data) so it's very possible that CmdrTaco had a copy protected CD but cdparanoia took care of it for him. It's much more likely though that whoever reported the CD as copy protected just didn't know what they were doing -- cheap CD-ROM drives in tandem with MusicMatch or RealJukebox will barf on some CDs that good CD/DVD-ROM drives coupled with cdparanoia or Exact Audio Copy will happily rip.
Re:Copy Protectoin only affect windows? (Score:2)
That depends on the type of factory damage (er, copy "protection"), and how the reading is done. An OS may have a driver that causes samples with damaged ECC to be interprloated, or just repeat previous samples. That would fix one kind of factory damage. Some CD reading code may ignore damaged parts of a TOC if it finds them...
Re:Copy Protectoin only affect windows? (Score:2)
-jon
This is the way to go.. (Score:3, Insightful)
2. Don't buy the music. Remember, while we may be able to vote in elections every 2-4 years, we vote daily with our money. If they don't have your money, the labels will (probably) be smart enough to stop pulling this kind of stunt.
This is the way to go. This is "speaking the right language". Don't whine about this - do something about it.
Don't buy Sony electronics for example; it's wrong to think "what difference can I make" - you really make the difference.
More importantly... (Score:5, Insightful)
If you can't rip it, it's defective and you should have the store replace it. If the repalcement can't be ripped there's something wrong with the production run and you should demand a refund.
If every slashdot user stopped buying CD's today, the industry would note a certain percentage downturn in sales and mark it up to the economy.
However, if every slashdot user returned every unrippable CD we get to the store/vendor, the stores would start wondering why the hell certain CDs are getting returned all the time and start complaining to the labels. Then the labels would have their sales channel angry with them and would be more likely to have to do something about it. A returned CD is an expense to the store: they have to store it until they have a batch to go back, and then return it to the label and wait for a refund or credit. If they start getting a lot of returns on one album they'll pull it from the shelves. (Hasn't that already happened once with Tower Records?) The stores will put up with much less nonsense than the labels are willing to either deal with or create.
And, of course, we could have the correctly mastered CDs which give us no problems, which really we have no gripe with in the first place.
I do, however, also recommend learning about your local musicians and independent musicians who may pass through your area. In the last year I've bought maybe a dozen CDs, just about all of which were purchased directly from independent musicians, and I must say I'm much happier with that music than with any of the commercially produced garbage they play on the radio these days.
Re:More importantly... (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:More importantly... (Score:3, Insightful)
No, they won't. They're too arrogant for an admission like this. Instead, they will hang a downturn in sales on so called pirates and say it's because the cds were copied illegally, thus affecting sales. Then they can justify more copy prevention schemes.
Sony (Score:2)
Hehe,
I am very disapointed that the Sony MP3 players are protected. The player locks the MP3 on your machine so you can't use it until the music is checked back in to the computer from the player.
I had bought one, 1 day later I took it back to Dixons (Uk) and demanded a refund which they gave me, one of the sales clerks said that he had many people do the same thing.
The sad thing is, I bought it because I like Sony equipment. I have a Sony stereo, a VIAO laptop, etc. They have lost me as customer for any portable stereo electronics until I am sure that this won't happen again. Even their stupid memory sticks are now having the secure music as a feature.
I just bought a Intel Pocket Concert and love it. Sounds great, easy, sexy and no hassle. Didn't look as nice as Sony's, but at least intel isn't jerking me around as a customer.
Just from talking with the retailer I bought it from, it sounds like sony's mp3 player sales are not very exciting at all.
All Universal CDs? (Score:2)
I ask because I don't see the new Garbage on the list and this CD is distributed by Universal even though the label it's produced under is something different. I walked into the store last week with the intention to buy it until I saw "Universal" on the back, which lost them a sale. I'd still like to buy it if the CD isn't actually corrupted, so does anybody out there have this CD? Does it have the intentional corruption on it?
Re:All Universal CDs? (Score:3, Insightful)
That CD was released last month, not this month. My Mac (iTunes) read it just fine, and CD Paranoia on Linux also read it.
However I'll warn you it isn't much like the other Garbage disks. You may not like it a whole lot.
Plus I think the best thing to do with factory damaged disks is to buy and return them. It may work better if you have a laptop so you can take it to the store and show it not playing. Even better if they only want to swap you for another of the same disk, play the next one before you leave the store. Insist they refund your money or change it for the next one. It might be worth $20 to run through their whole stock. Definitely worth it if you can run through the whole stock and get the money back.
I ripped Slomotion (Score:2)
This copy protection is bullshit.
Hmm... (Score:3, Interesting)
I seem to be getting less and less tolerant to commercials too. The radio in my car is tuned to NPR, which is commercial free 50 weeks out of the year. Even if it is the all Afghanistan all the time network these days. I'm about 99% RIAA free these days, I think. They'll probably get that declared an act of treason soon... feh... bastards.
Speaking of which, how much did they give your guys this year? [opensecrets.org] We should get a petition going for a constitutional ammendment forbiding any incorporated entity from giving money to any politician.
Re:Hmm... (Score:2, Funny)
Re: (Score:2)
hmmm... guess (Score:2)
Unfortuneately that makes it impossible for me to "legally" listen to their new CD and being a fan I'll have to download it from somewhere.
I'd even be perfectly happy to buy a "copy protected" CD and just through hoops to convert it to MP3, but sadly that's a federal offense because of the DMCA.
I don't understand why the music industry is so hostil towards their good customers...
What we need to do (Score:2, Interesting)
widespread? (Score:2)
I wish I was a fly on the wall... (Score:3, Funny)
If it's happened less than 3 dozen times, I'm utterly shocked.
Those CD's are crap anyway. (Score:2, Funny)
Re:Those CD's are crap anyway. (Score:2, Insightful)
Don't have any favorite bands on big labels? This may not even matter after a while, either, because (as I understand it) there are a lot of smaller labels that are members of the RIAA as well. They might get bullied into copy preventing their CDs too.
I sure hope this doesn't happen. It would render my Nomad near useless.
flawed list (Score:2, Interesting)
I think some people are just reporting any disc they have trouble with, without investigating things like bad hardware or scratched discs. Just spreading paranoia.
This will only mobilize people (Score:5, Interesting)
I have a feeling this will backfire in one of two ways: 1) they will drop the copy prevention after a public outcry, or 2) there will be new drivers or tools published that make it possible to rip/play these CDs, and they become common enough to make the copy prevention irrelevant. This will mean that the only people truly affected will be innocent people with limited technical expertise (mom goes and buys a PC, puts her new CD in the tray, and it doesn't play; mom gets mad and calls you). This will only further giving a black eye to the RIAA.
A third possibility is the nightmare of DeCSS -- that someone publishes a method to defeat this copy prevention, gets sued, goes to court, etc. But as we've seen with DeCSS, it's pretty hard to stop it once it's out.
Re:This will only mobilize people (Score:2, Interesting)
Even in a post napster world, the media likes publicizing(sp?) alternate ways of getting stuff. For example, I was watching CNBC of all channels and they were discussing napster, and one anchor said "nah, napster is dead. Mourpeus is the good one now."
Once you educate the masses, its impossible to unlearn them.
It is NOT legal to rip CDs, but not illegal... (Score:2)
It is a gray area, however as factors like "affecting the market" come into play. Ripping a CD for distribution as MP3s 'affects the market' but ripping a CD to put it in your car probably wouldnt.
But... you're wrong (Score:2)
Re:It is NOT legal to rip CDs, but not illegal... (Score:4, Insightful)
Your argument runs along the opposite line, that if copyright law doesn't say you can, then you cannot. Again, if you believe the rhetoric of the "intellectual property" cartels, sure. But if you believe the people who founded this nation and the ideals embodied in the U.S. Constitution, then that view is clearly incompatible with freedom.
This is the insidious nature of the re-education effort being undertaken by media publishers, the BSA, etc.. The criminalization of copyright infringement (before it was a civil matter), the outlandish extension of copyrights, the aggressive litigation, the shift from sale of a product to a license, and the broad use of terms such as "stealing", "piracy", "protection" are all part of this effort. And people have integrated these ideas into their worldview. People are shifting to a "it's only legal if the shrink-wrap license says it's legal" mindset.
*yawn* (Score:2, Funny)
Aerosmith-Just_Push_Play-2001-KSi
Tori_Amos-Strange_Little_Girls-2001-EGO
Dc_Talk-Supernatural-RNS
Nsync-Celebrity(Real_CD_Retail)-2001-RNS
System_Of_A_Down-Toxicity-Retail-2001-STA
The_Watchmen-Slomotion-2001-EGO
A question (Score:5, Interesting)
I question follows me everytime I hear anything about copy protected CDs.:
Does the owner of this technology (AFAIK Philips owns the patent) have any kind of official opinion about this? Is it allowed to modify the technology and keep using the compatible logo?
Can anybody help me with this question? (thanks in advance)
Re:A question (Score:3, Interesting)
I'm surprised that retailers... (Score:3, Insightful)
A lot of the big retailers for music - Best Buy and the Wiz come to mind - are also electronics retailers. Besides selling conventional CD players that may not be able to handle the "protected" CD's, they sell PC's with CDR's, CDRW upgrade drives and digital music players. In fact, with conventional CD players having become a commodity, digital music is probably an important source of profits for retailers and manufacturers. If enough of these "protected" CD's get out there, it's going to start spooking consumers; how can a retailer convince customer to buy a CDRW drive or a dashboard CD player that will read CDR's if half of that customer's music collection won't work on one of those. No customer wants to get "betamaxed" again. Instead of being able to profit by selling both the software (the music) and the hardware (playback devices), retailers are going to find out that spooked customers aren't buying either.
Worse still, a lot of digital music hardware may become the target for false advertising lawsuits. While retailers may not lobby the record companies on behalf of consumers, I'll bet you they will on behalf of their own profits.
Re:I'm surprised that retailers... (Score:2)
Not sure how best to respond to this, except to say Well, DUH!. Sowing confusion among enemy is in that Art of War book by that Hung Sue guy, or whatever. Get with the program.
A working system? (Score:2, Interesting)
The recording companies will sell high capacity memory cards @ the cost of manufacturing them. Each card has a random identification number embedded in it which will also be 'salt' for the encryption.
Any location re/selling music will be equipped with a digital recorder. When you purchase music you take your high capacity card with you. (You don't actually purchase tangible media). You give them your memory card and they load your purchased music on it, whish is also being encrypted while being stored (using the embedded ID#). The music store then stores your ID# and the music selection to their database.
You take your memory card home to your home stereo system and upload the music from the card to the radio's internal drives. You can also upload the music to your computer, car radio (also equipped with an internal drive) etc... And in order to play the music stored on ANY of these items, all you need to do is pop in your memory card.. the id number on the memory card is used to decode the stored music and then played if it decodes correctly.
Optionally if you want to play music on a system that does not have your music in it, simple copy the music selection(s) you wish to here to you memory card before leaving your home and play it anywhere right from the memory card. If you copy the music from the card to someone elses drives... their card won't decode your music because the ID that is read from their card is different from the the code used to encrypt the your music.
In the event of a total loss of music, you can go back to the store where you purchased the music from and tell them you need the selections again.. and give them your card.. (Remember earlier I mentioned they stored your ID number and music selection) and then they could give you back ALL of your music at not cost to you - Providing the card you give them has the same ID number that they have in their system.
I am not saying this is fool proof, as nothing is! But I believe this would satisfy everyone and put music distribution back to what it was in the days of cassettes.
This concept could also be used for dvd and game purchases also.
Any thoughts?
Oh and btw.. IF this would be used.. I hereby announce this MY idea on this day 11/11/2001
Hey! - You never know!
Re:A working system? (Score:3, Insightful)
The biggest problem is that it would require mandatory registration, which the paranoids would never go for (what if I lose my card? To get a replacement, I would have to identify myself).
There are also other problems: everthing would have to have a card reader, suddenly making all your stereo equipment obsolete. You can't sell your music media like you can with CDs. You can't mail-order music.
The biggest problem, though, is who wants to carry around a freaking key? If I leave it at home when I go to work, I can't listen. If my wife wants to listen to music while I'm at work, we have to buy two different copies? I don't think that's going to fly.
Re:A working system? (Score:2, Insightful)
That's different. People don't object to that because they're getting a higher quality product. You're not going to get people to ditch their old equipment simply to prevent something that most people don't want to prevent. The only purpose of which is to enrich the RIAA.
If anyone actually believed that the RIAA would lower the price of CD's if piracy was eliminated, they might go for it. But no one believes it.
Pricing of CD's and DVD's has almost nothing to do with cost, and almost everything to do with what the market will bear. In other words, we'll charge as much as we can get away with. That's not evil, it's standard economics when competition is removed from the equation. And there isn't competition. If you want a particular song, there's only one company to get it from.
Also, look at the price of DVD's vs. the price of tapes. Tapes cost more to manufacture, and yet DVD's cost more. Why? Because people are willing to pay more.
Re:.sig (Score:2)
Re:.sig (Score:2)
Oddly enough, Dark Side of the Moon is one of their LPs that I like the least. (Go figure, eh?) As far as Floyd chords, I'll take the first one from Fearless over Time. Takes all kinds I guess.
``...except the song "Money". Maybe it's just been overplayed...''
Yah, you got that right. Maybe that's why I don't like the rest of the LP as much. Damned radio stations...
Aphex Twin's Drukqs (Score:2, Informative)
I would never have thought that Aphex Twin would do such a thing, even though he says the only reason he releases his music is to make money (he only releases what he thinks his fans expect from him and he keeps the really innovative stuff for himself, because he doesn't want to be copied by everybody.
Very telling (Score:2)
Well the solution is obvious. Aphex Twin needs to patent his innovations. Why, I bet the USPTO would be happy to open up a new market of intellectual property customers. Just think how much money you could make if you've got a patent on Salsa, or Grunge.
There are two versions to collect statistics (Score:5, Informative)
jeff
Limited Run Batches (Score:2)
Yes correct. There are limited batches [fatchucks.com]
As a side note related to this (Score:2)
I've heard a lot of folks complaining on other boards about downloading MP3s that are "bad rips" from "protected" CDs.
Now, my personal opinion is simple here. I don't believe the protection method is AT ALL fair, since it has the potential to prevent paying customers from making fair use of their media. However, I can't stand hearing people complain about "wasting time downloading useless MP3s", since that's not fair use in my book.
Some people say sharing files with others is fair use. Legally, this may actually be so, but it doesn't sound fair ethically to me (with respect to the artist and the people behind the album production). On the other hand, the ability to copy my CD for my own personal use, or to rip it to a series of MP3 files is critical to me. It's also nice to know my PC CD player won't barf on a CD (since I almost never use "standalone" audio equipment anymore, all linked into my PC).
Any thoughts on that? Anyone heard of similar complaints or "issues" with bad MP3 rips to due this?
Re:As a side note related to this (Score:2)
If you are sharing the files with someone you know will buy the disc if they like it and delete it if they don't then it seems fair, but that may or may not be legal.
Want to stop this? Here is what to do (Score:2, Informative)
Every time you go to a CD store, buy one of those broken CDs. Take it home, open it, play it, return it as defective and demand your money back. Just be sure you go to a large outlet, not an indie shop.
No lawsuit is needed, just simple economics.
-B
Ripped tracks already available. (Score:2)
On the other hand, spotting those tracks is the reason I know they've got a new disk out. Because somebody ripped the tracks and distributed them, The Tea Party has made a new sale. :)
In related news... (Score:4, Funny)
Organize a one-day boycott/protest? (Score:2)
If enough people could purposefully NOT buy any Sony music for one day in even just one geographic region (midwest, for example) would that not send enough of a message? I worked in a medium-sized music store in a mall years ago - we'd take $5000 on busy days (xmas season, etc). That was just one location - there would easily be 100 or so medium to large music shops in just SE michigan (where I'm located). If you took away $500/store x 100 stores just in Detroit area, that's $50k in 'lost' sales. Would that impact be big enough to get a point across?
Just wonderin'...
2-Pac? (Score:2)
The Americas
2-Pac: Until the End of Time (USA, Universal/Interscope)
I think the fact that they are still coming out with 2-Pac CD's is ever scarier than the fact that they are coming out with Copy Protected CD's. Hey guys, HE'S DEAD. Stop putting out the albums already.
Sorrow (Score:3, Funny)
Re:sooner or later.. (Score:5, Funny)
what I meant to say was:
sooner o^&%$r later )(^the p@#$%rogrammer@$#%s of the w#$%#$orld wi@$#%ll find@#$% a wa%^&@#y past (*&^:the ju"%@#$nk data~!$ in thos^$@e CD's, mu}_(ch how hu:_^mans %*%will fin":?+d our w#@%!%^ay throug_){"h this (fi%$#rst?) po#$st
Re:running list (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:What about digital out? (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:What about digital out? (Score:3, Informative)
Now this may seem MD-only, but the fact remains that these are errors deliberatly put on that disc, and nothing less, which are propagated through a digital out as well, thereby providing you with what is, in essence, a faulty low-quality product.
The hilarious part is that the solution to the MD problem is ripping the track to your computer using cdparanoia (works fine) or a similar ripper, and play back the WAVs through a digital out on your soundcard. Resulting in uninterrupted WAV data (the ripper fills in the blanks) which can be played back perfectly. In essence, in order to make a perfectly legal recording on MD for yourself, they are in fact forcing you to rip it to your computer, which is what I s'pose they are trying to prevent.
Another thing that bothers me is that when I put that particular disc in a drive on a Win box, it fires up a proprietary binary cd player which plays back the disc. I do suspect it doesn't play back the data but some highly-compressed version of the music stored in a relatively large data file on the data part of the disc (haven't checked the quality, was too pissed at that moment). So they are also forcing you to use Windows if you want to hear it play. Forget Macs, forget other OSes.
And for those interested, the disc in question (Natalie Imbruglia's White Lilies Island) was proteced with the Cactus Data Shield 200 [midbartech.com], which is noted in small print on the booklet.
Comment removed (Score:5, Insightful)
Comment removed (Score:5, Informative)
It's already on Morpheus... (Score:2)
Re:Why Would you buy cds? (Score:2)
That's why I've got lots of songs on CDs. Yep...several CD-R's that are chock-full of MP3's just in case!