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GTK-- vs. QT

Cliff posted more than 11 years ago | from the technical-comparisons dept.

325

spirality asks: "The company I work for is getting ready to decide on a GUI Toolkit for our Computational Modeling Toolkit (CoMeT, www.cometsolutions.com). We would like C++ compatibility and ports to various Unices and Win32 platforms. Not supprisingly we've come up with two choices, GTK-- and QT. I've attempted to compare the two by doing alot of web surfing and searching, but I've come up with things that are consistently one or more years old. So, the question I pose is what are the (dis)advatages of GTK-- and QT, and why would I choose one of these toolkits over the other? Overall functionality, momentum for future growth, ease of use, licensing, and pretty much anything else is relevant to our decision." With QT now at version 3.0 and GTK now in the 1.2.x revisions, maybe it's time to give the two libraries some fair comparison and discuss the new features, advantages, and disadvantages of each?

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325 comments

All quiet on the Slashdot front??? (-1, Offtopic)

FyRE666 (263011) | more than 11 years ago | (#2603379)

Where are all the comments? Is anybody out there?... Hello?...

Re:All quiet on the Slashdot front??? (1)

Lispy (136512) | more than 11 years ago | (#2603399)

Im here...but i frankly have to opinion since i only use and never hacked those libs before.

Maybe its a point to choose a central maintained Lib such as QT if your product is going to be commercial. As far as i can tell Trolltech is doing a good job with it.

Personally i prefer the GTK as a User, i find the Applications more coherent to use, but thats mostly thanks to Gnome, i guess.

So, thats as much as i can say about it...wont help you a bit, i bet!
Have a nice Weekend all you slashdotters out there..

Lispy

Bwhahahahahahaha (0, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#2603382)

It looks like it's going to be a troll friday, eh.

what next Taco, how about a rousing vi against emacs story?


Oh, first post for Jesus !!!!

Re:Bwhahahahahahaha (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#2603411)

I actually agree with you, we just add 2 stories about Open Source viability, a new Linux kernel, some Mozilla release, ...
Most of this stuff was able to start flamewars so here we have a huge potential.
Does Slashdot want to declare war on tertro(ll)rism ???
what about a good old atari vs amiga troll ?
or windows vs apple ?

QT seems to rule (2, Interesting)

PRobinson (471021) | more than 11 years ago | (#2603384)

I've recently got my Sharp SL-5000D which comes with a cute embedded version of QT. I'm starting to play with it some more, and I have to say I'm impressed. I've not done much GUI dev. under 'nix before, but I've followed many threads in the past elsewhere that suggests GTK is a hodge-podge and is getting out of control, with no coherent design.

I'm not experienced, but as a lay-man, I'd have to say go for QT.

Re:QT seems to rule (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#2603400)

Great,

So basically you don't know anything about GTK and you know next to nothing about QT, but here you are to offer the world your opinions for everyone to see. And, to top it off, you state that your opinion of GTK is based upong something you claim to have read in the past, but of course you offer no link or location for anyone to check your references. Great. Let me guess, I'll bet you're a rocket scientist for NASA?

Then, to top it all off, some little 15 year old pissant with mod points gives you a plus one for your post which is in reality worthless. Perfect, just perfect.

Re:QT seems to rule (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#2603420)

But 'dude' (I think this is the correct form of address in these parts)...

I think you'll find that this is what Slashdot is all about and that the above was a Slashdot post in the classical mould.

If correct Slashdot protocols are followed, we will now be treated to a spectacularly ill-informed and subjective QT vs GTK flame war.

Mod me down Scotty!

Re:QT seems to rule (-1)

George WIPO Bush (308209) | more than 11 years ago | (#2603421)

Man, you need to masturbate more. You can start here [bashfulmonkey.com] . They're yummy.

Re:QT seems to rule (1)

Bongo (13261) | more than 11 years ago | (#2603628)

Great, So basically you don't know anything about GTK and... Perfect, just perfect

And as a further improvement on perfection, some other 15 year old mods you down "Redundant"!

But is that "Redundant" because it's already generally and widely understood that useless posts will get modded up?? D'uh, stating the obvious or what.

Do your dreams have soundtracks?

Re:QT seems to rule (2, Insightful)

Capt. Beyond (179592) | more than 11 years ago | (#2603472)

You are correct. I have developed with QT for around 3 years now, and back then, I did check out GTK--, and it seemed very much a hodge-podge. I can't imagine it being any better now. I use QT on linux and windows and am going to be porting my program to the SL-5000D. (with the good graces of Sharp) How cool is that?
If I had a Mac, I'd port it to that.

Re:QT seems to rule (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#2603501)

and am going to be porting my program to the SL-5000D

Just out of interest what does your program do? Do you see any potential problems porting to the SL-5000D?

Did you intend it to have a cross-platform GUI from the outset?

Re:QT seems to rule (1)

Capt. Beyond (179592) | more than 11 years ago | (#2603736)

Yes, I had intended to cross platform it. And when TT released the non commercial for windows, I stopped the native windows development tree, and it was a breeze to port the linux version to windows. And it's pretty much a breeze to port it to embedded. I love QT... I'd marry it, but I can't seem to find the finger to put the ring on!
:D

Re:QT seems to rule (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#2603586)

I agree with you 100%. I've neve used GTK, nor do I know anything about it, but I seem to recall that a friend of my brothers girlfriend said he heard from someone that it was rough around the edges and had no development roadmap for the future. But, on the other hand, I did read an article on ZDnet a couple of years ago about QT, so I would say that it's a much better platform.

First post? (0, Troll)

Grab (126025) | more than 11 years ago | (#2603389)

Is this my first first post? ;-)

Seriously, I'm interested in this myself - I'm working on a universal chip programmer and I need a toolkit to do this. I'd rather not use VC! :-)

Grab.

ohhh man I... (-1, Offtopic)

raffe (28595) | more than 11 years ago | (#2603395)

see a great flamewar comming!!! This should be a post!
:-P

GTK and Qt... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#2603405)

... both suck! Motif forever!

Qt if you need Win32 (5, Informative)

Ami Ganguli (921) | more than 11 years ago | (#2603401)

I actually prefer GTK+ and I think it's a better bet long-term, but I don't think the cross-platform aspect of the library gets much developer attention.

Being cross-platform is a major selling point for commerical Qt users, however, so if you need your apps to work on Windows then it's clearly the way to go.

An Alan Smithee Movie (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#2603412)

Standing on the beach
With a gun in my hand
Staring at the sea
Staring at the sand
Staring down the barrel
At the arab on the ground
I can see his open mouth
But I hear no sound

I'm alive
I'm dead
I'm the stranger
Killing an arab

I can turn
And walk away
Or I can fire the gun
Staring at the sky
Staring at the sun
Whichever I chose
It amounts to the same
Absolutely nothing

I'm alive
I'm dead
I'm the stranger
Killing an arab

I feel the steel butt jump
Smooth in my hand
Staring at the sea
Staring at the sand
Staring at myself
Reflected in the eyes
Of the dead man on the beach
The dead man on the beach

I'm alive
I'm dead
I'm the stranger
Killing an arab

What about gimp? (2, Interesting)

bani (467531) | more than 11 years ago | (#2603433)

Didn't they port gimp to win32?

gimp is THE flagship gtk application, bar none.

Re:What about gimp? (0)

crawlie (235060) | more than 11 years ago | (#2603450)

xchat [xchat.org] has also a win32 binary, and it uses gtk. Though, it isn't as stable as the *nix version, I think...

Re:What about gimp? (5, Informative)

Ami Ganguli (921) | more than 11 years ago | (#2603454)

It exists, but I don't think it's maintained as well. The primary developers don't really care about Win32, so maintaining it is left to a few masochists :-).

Re:What about gimp? (2, Informative)

egghat (73643) | more than 11 years ago | (#2603563)

yeah and that's a big shame.

GTK porting was mainly done by one single person.

I think, there are a few other GTK based apps, which Windows Users would like. But without a stable GTK on Windows?

Bye egghat.

Re:What about gimp? (3, Insightful)

FuegoFuerte (247200) | more than 11 years ago | (#2603732)

I regularly use the GIMP on Windows, and at least for me, it's at least as stable as any of my other Windows programs. Remember one thing: if it crashes running under *nix, people will get mad. Things aren't supposed to crash under *nix. If it crashes under Windows, people will more than likely say "humbug", restart their computer, and go on with things.

Re:Qt if you need Win32 (4, Insightful)

Orycterope (67067) | more than 11 years ago | (#2603488)

Being cross-platform is a major selling point for commerical Qt users, however, so if you need your apps to work on Windows then it's clearly the way to go.

Absolutely.

One important thing to note about Qt is the fact that it ain't a wrapper around existing GUI APIs. It emulates the different GUIs out there, so it does the drawing itself, avoiding going through some additional API layers. That translates into a fast and responsive GUI.

I tried it on both Windows and Linux using the platform's native GUI and GUIs from other platforms, i.e. the Motif or CDE style on Windows, the Windows style on Linux. It is very convincing and very fast.

When performance matters, I definitely go with Qt.

Watch out for that "non-commercial" license on Windows though. It might not be appropriate for what you are doing. Your company will probably have to acquire a Qt license for Windows.

Re:Qt if you need Win32 (5, Informative)

hattig (47930) | more than 11 years ago | (#2603518)

Knowing companies like I do, they will go with the most expensive solution - because expense usually means support. In this case QT is clearly the way to go, as everyone is pointing out (okay, wxWindows is another good choice, but I have no experience with this system).

QT has an easier to program API, is quick to program in, has great documentation, has support, has a huge wealth of existing code examples, and is supported on Windows. GTK is not supported on Windows, and is a one-man port job. Fine for free software like the gimp, but not for a commercial application. Don't save a couple of grand on the GUI toolkit and get yourself a lot more costs in support that you have to provide because of problems.

GTK2 might solve a lot of the problems in the current GTK of course, but I am not qualified to comment about that. And do you really want to program using a just finalised API?

QT just does things right. 'nuff said.

Re:Qt if you need Win32 (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#2603506)

I actually prefer GTK+ and I think it's a better bet long-term

How the hell is this +5 Informative? Ami Ganguli's opinion alone is worth +5?

Somebody get me off this sinking ship.

wxWindows (slightly OT) (5, Informative)

Balinares (316703) | more than 11 years ago | (#2603403)

You may also want to take a look at the wxWindows toolkit [wxwindows.org] . It's a wrapper over what's available on a given platform (the native API in Win32, GTK in the Unix world, and there's a Mac port in progress, I believe). Good stuff, definitely, especially if what you want is C++ and portability. Note that your apps will look totally windowsy on win32, so your users will not be confused by their look.

Mozilla (slightly OT too) (5, Informative)

mvw (2916) | more than 11 years ago | (#2603442)

Another alternative is using Mozilla as IDE. This might sound a bit crazy right now, but I believe this idea will get more followers, if Mozilla gets more and more stable.

An example is the Komodo IDE [activestate.com] by ActiveState, which uses XUL.

XUL [xulplanet.com] is the next generation browser application platform. Simply speaking, the Mozilla [mozilla.org] team chose an approach very similiar to JAVA [sun.com] to come closer to a platform independent graphical user interface:

  • implement a set of base compenents on the most popular platforms (Win32, Mac, UNIX, ..), that render your JAVA specific widgets in terms of the native GUI.
  • implement your applications in your JAVA language
  • compile application
  • distribute JAVA binaries

XUL goes one step farther, as there is no compilation step.

The XUL application implementation language is a XML language that together with cascading style sheets and JavaScript glue will yield an application one starts in the browser by opening the .xul document.

A possible advantage of XUL might become the relative ease of application development, change and distribution.

Possible problems will be similiar to the ones known from JAVA. The qualitiy of XUL applications will stand and fall with the quality of the XUL implementation for a specific platform, which right now means the quality of its Mozilla or Netscape implementation.

Of course, compared to JAVA, which has underwent several larger development cycles and now features mighty libraries, XUL is a bleeding edge technology at its beginnings.

However it is still possible to make direct use of the various Mozilla widgets as well from C++.

Re:Mozilla (slightly OT too) (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#2603520)

Another alternative is using Mozilla as IDE.

And another alternative is replacing all your divides with loops that subtract a lot. They're both great ways to slow the hell out of your app. :)

Sorry, but building an app with Mozilla as your interface library is like deciding to layer MFC on top of Visual Logo or something.

Re:Mozilla (slightly OT too) (3, Interesting)

ajs (35943) | more than 11 years ago | (#2603550)

1. Have you used anything built on top of Mozilla (e.g. Komodo) or are you just flaming because it feels good?
2. If you actually needed a UI that was as rich and powerful as XUL can provide, why woulld you want to go off an write it al yourself?
3. Are you thinking in terms of writing web pages and CGI that acts as an application, or are you thinking in terms of building your UI into the XUL interface of Mozilla? These are very different things (and both actually have a place in different applications).

Re:Mozilla (slightly OT too) (2)

ajs (35943) | more than 11 years ago | (#2603567)

I've played with Komodo, and I have to say that I'm impressed. XUL+Moizilla can certainly be turned to one's advantage. I imagine that the crucial point is where you put the dividing line between your app and the UI. I would think that you'd want to build only the highest level UI pieces in XUL, and then the rest of your app in a low level language.

Re:Mozilla (slightly OT too) (1, Troll)

be-fan (61476) | more than 11 years ago | (#2603718)

Great. We'll have more slow, bloated apps that don't look native. No compilation step? Who CARES! You only compile it once! You're users have to deal with your shit mistakes every time they use the damn program!

Re:wxWindows (slightly OT) (1)

ghoti (60903) | more than 11 years ago | (#2603536)

wxWindows is really great. Not only does it contain a lot of useful stuff (and far beyond just UI things, also threads, sockets, etc), but they also have very good documentation. When I looked at GTK--, the documentation was totally unusable. There were lots of classes without a single word of documentation.

Re:wxWindows (slightly OT) (2)

fault0 (514452) | more than 11 years ago | (#2603765)

> Note that your apps will look totally windowsy on win32, so your users will not be confused by their look.

Which Qt does as well. I find wxWindows too MFC-y too use tho, although it is quite a viable alternative to Qt, especially for open software on Windows.

However, If you want a high quality professional toolkit, stick with Qt. gtk--? no way, it's not in any good shape.

GTK vs. QT -- a comparison (-1, Redundant)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#2603404)

GTK has 3 letters.
QT has 2.

GTK starts with a "G".
QT starts with a "Q".

GTK ends with a "K".
QT ends with a "T".

Re:GTK vs. QT -- a comparison (-1)

George WIPO Bush (308209) | more than 11 years ago | (#2603434)

And I have my penis up these two's [bashfulmonkey.com] pert little asses.

Re:GTK vs. QT -- a comparison (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#2603532)

If you're trying to entertain us, please do it well and post some links to other sluts as well. Thanks.

Fuck QT, Fuck Windows and motherfuck Prince (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#2603406)

spiralX asks: "The company I work for is getting ready to decide on an OSToolkit for our Computational Modeling Toolkit (CuMeT, www.cumetsolutions.com). We would like C++ compatibility and ports to various Unices and Win32 platforms. Not supprisingly we've come up with two choices, LINUX-- and BSD. I've attempted to compare the two by doing alot of web surfing and searching, but I've come up with things that are consistently one or more years old. So, the question I pose is what are the (dis)advantages of LINUX-- and BSD, and why would I choose one of these toolkits over the other? Overall functionality, momentum for future growth, ease of use, licensing, and pretty much anything else is relevant to our decision." With BSD now at version 3.0 and LINUX now in the 1.2.x revisions, maybe it's time to give the two libraries some fair comparisson and discuss the new features, advantages, and disadvantages of each? Actually, on the other hand why don't you freaks argue pointlessly over something you know nothing about? As per fucking usual.

Taco-snotting the Olsen twins! (-1)

George WIPO Bush (308209) | more than 11 years ago | (#2603407)

I should be posting Taco-snotting stories [slashdot.org] , but I'm just too busy masturbating under my desk to pictures of these little cuties [bashfulmonkey.com] ! Mmmmmm, look at their under-age little bodies [bashfulmonkey.com] ... don't you want a piece of that??? Mmmm, feet [bashfulmonkey.com] ...

*wanks*
*spooges on their feet*

THE OFFICIAL TACO-SNOTTING FAQ [slashdot.org]
By The WIPO Troll [slashdot.org] , $Revision: 1.10 $

What is "Taco-snotting?"

"Taco-snotting" is a term used by one
Rob "CmdrTaco" Malda [cmdrtaco.net] , owner of the popular technology website Slashdot [slashdot.org] , to refer to the practice of sucking the penis of a homosexual man (or unwilling heterosexual; CmdrTaco doesn't care, and is rumored to actually prefer rape) and blowing the semen back out his nose onto his partner's (or victim's) face or body. Usually a long, bubbly stream of milky-white semen is left on CmdrTaco's face, dribbling out of his nose, down his cheek: hence the term, "Taco-snotting."

Good Lord. And what is a "Circle-snot"?

A "circle-snot" is a Taco-snotting
circle-jerk, another practice common among homosexual geeks. This is when CmdrTaco, CowboiKneel [yahoo.com] , and Homos get together and Taco-snot each other repeatedly with their gooey, hot, and sticky cum -- spooging their dicks all over each other's faces and pasty-white bodies until they're all covered head to toe with man juice. Roblowme usually provides plenty of extra lubricant; he owns a limo service and has ample supplies of motor oil and axle grease.
To complete this perverted orgy, fellow geeks Michael, Timothy, and Jamie often join in, dressed in black Gestapo uniforms, jack boots, and leather gloves. The whole group then proceeds to snot each other's spunk and whip each other's pudgy asses with riding crops and chains until their pasty-white geek bodies are sweaty and exhausted from all the passionate, homosexual revelry.

Ewwwww. Why have I been receiving emails from CmdrTaco asking me if he can Taco-snot me?

I'm guessing you've received an email similar to the following:
From: malda@slashdot.org [mailto]
To: wipotroll@hotmail.com
Subject: Hey, baby - jion me in a taco-snott! :)

Hey, baby!

Ever done a taco-snotting with anothar fellow geek? Its more fun then trolling Slashdot, trust me! all that talk you troll with about homasexual incest and stuff got me all horny and hot for you! Is it serius? Please tell me that itt is! If you want to get with me and my Slashdot bois, drop me an emale!

ps- Please replie to me at horny_rob_6969@hotmail.com. I'd rather the guys at VA Linux are not seen this. :) :)

--
CmdrTaco (malda@slashdot.org [mailto] )
You most likely forgot to uncheck the "Willing to Taco-snot" checkbox in your account preferences. Whenever CmdrTaco gets bored (and who wouldn't, running a site like Slashdot all day), he roams through the Slashdot database, penis in hand, looking for people who might enjoy being Taco-snotted. How he determines this is anyone's guess; but if you have a homosexual-sounding nickname, you're in trouble. So this time, he found you. Lucky you.
CmdrTaco has probably already got the hots for your wad, and he's probably already been lurking outside your bathroom window for weeks with a camera, some tissues and lube. There's no escaping a geek in heat, so it's probably too late for you, but you can possibly rectify this situation. To remove yourself from CmdrTaco's sights, log into your Slashdot account, go to your user page, click on
Messages, and uncheck the box next to "Willing to Taco-snot." Maybe he'll ignore you. Probably not.

I can't stop receiving these emails from CmdrTaco!?

Probably not. If you indulge him in a Taco-snot or two, he
might leave you alone. You might also want to look into mail filtering, restraining orders, or purchasing a heavy, blunt object capable of warding off rampaging homosexual geeks in heat. Trust me, when they charge... oh, the humanity. If he gets you, and you let him Taco-snot you, he might end up tying you up in his basement to use you as his sex slave for the rest of your life (or until he accidentally drowns you in spunk in a circle-snot).

Have you ever been Taco-Snotted?

Unfortunately, yes. I first met CmdrTaco at an
Open Source Convention [yahoo.com] . He invited me back to his room for a game of Quake, but when I got to there, he jumped me and tied me to his bed, stripping me. After taking his "Commander" out of his pants, Mr. Taco made me suck the withered, little thing several times. He then performed his vile Taco-snotting ritual on me three times over the next two hours, bringing me to orgasm after sweaty, mind-numbing orgasm... then he snotted my own milky-white jizz back onto my face, into my mouth, then again on my exposed belly.
CmdrTaco invited several of his Open Source (or rather, "Open Sauce" -- man sauce) buddies over to continue the twisted snotfest. Linux Torvalds
raped my ass [yahoo.com] with his "monolithic kernel [yahoo.com] ," and Anal Cox used his "network stack" in a multitude of unspeakable ways on and in every orifice in my defenseless body.
How did you finally escape, you ask? After about 16 hours of countless homosexual atrocities perpetrated against my restrained body, they all finally went to sleep on top of me, sweat-soaked and exhausted. I was left there, covered in bubbly, translucent jizz-snot, chained to the bed, with half a dozen fat, pasty-white fags lying around and on top of me. Fortunately the spooge coating my flesh worked wonderfully as a lubricant; I was able to squirm my way out of the handcuffs and slip out the back door. I'm just glad I survived the ordeal. These geeks had a lot of built-up spunk in their wads -- I could've easily been drowned!

That's horrible. Does "Taco-snotting" have anything to do with CmdrTaco's "special taco"?

No, that's a different disgusting perversion CmdrTaco indulges himself in. CmdrTaco is usually not satisfied with merely snotting your own jizz back onto your face, he most often enjoys involving his own bodily fluids in his twisted games.
WeatherTroll [slashdot.org] has spent some time trying to educate the Slashdot readership about this vile practice (emphasis added):
You may be wondering what CmdrTaco's "special taco" is. You will be wishing that you hadn't been wondering after you finish reading this post. To make his "special taco", CmdrTaco takes a taco shell and
shits on it. He then adds lettuce, jacks off on the taco, and adds a compound to make the person who eats the taco unconscious. Of course, the compound does not make the person unconscious until the taco is fully eaten. Thus CmdrTaco force-feeds the taco to the unsuspecting victim.
After the victim is unconscious, he is held against his will and used for CmdrTaco's nefarious sexual purposes. This includes shoving taco shells up the victim's ass, Taco-snotting, and getting Jon Katz involved.
Completely different, yet no less revolting. It should be clear to you now that CmdrTaco is a very, very sick individual, as are most of the Slashdot editors.

Does Jon Katz get involved in any of this? I thought he was a paedophile, not a homosexual.

Actually, Jon Katz is a homosexual paedophile. He's also a coprophiliac, and, many suspect, a zoophile. Jon Katz is somewhat of a loner and doesn't involve himself in circle-snots. Mr. Katz usually engages in a game called "
Katz juicy-douching [yahoo.com] " with his harem of little-boy slaves: a vile practice which involves administering an enema to himself of the little boy's urine (forced out of them with a pair of pliers), spooging the vile muck from his ass back into the enema bag, then squirting and slathering the goo all over himself, and the little boy's chained-up and naked bodies. If he's in the mood, he will sometimes skip refilling the enema bag and just squirt it from his ass [yahoo.com] onto his boys. Unwilling boys are further tortured with the pliers until they comply and allow Mr. Katz to juicy-douche them for the rest of their lives.
As I already said, Mr. Katz is
also a zoophile. As if the sexual escapades with the helpless little boys aren't enough, Jon usually enjoys his juicy-douches best when his penis is firmly planted in a female goat's anus [yahoo.com] . He is also rumoured to get off on watching his little boys eat the goat's small, bean-like turds.

...Are you getting hard writing this?

Why, yes. :) Join me in a WIPO-snot? I promise I won't try and rape you or kidnap you and make you my sex slave or anything. I'm not like CmdrTaco or Mr. Katz; I only enjoy snotting on willing partners.

What's that screaming I hear coming from your basement?

Oh, that's just my little sister; I got her chained up down there. In fact, I just finished snotting all over her body. You should see her squirm when I spooge on her belly, lick it up, and snot it all over her face! She's such a feisty little 14 year-old bitch. Of
course she's my sex slave, she's my sister. What else would she be good for? So, join me in a WIPO-snot?

No, thanks. I'm already CmdrTaco's boi toi.

________________________________________
READER COMMENTS

  1. Re:Microsoft's Taco-Snotting Connection (Score:-1, Troll)
    by Anonymous Coward on 2001.11.21 4:49 (#2594325 [slashdot.org] )

    oh yeah, you say you have masturbated only 2 times to this post. well, by the time it takes for me to get through reading it, i usually end up masturbated 5 to 6 times, 10 to 12 if i have the goatse.cx homepage loaded up and am looking at it side by side with the slashdot page. my keyboard, hands, mouse, monitor, the underside of my desk and around the floor under my desk are cum soaked and sticky with the man smell i know and love.

  2. Re:Microsoft's Taco-Snotting Connection (Score:0)
    by Anonymous Coward on 2001.11.21 4:41 (#2594311 [slashdot.org] )

    for version 2 you should make a total re-write of the cod...errr...text and add some details about cmdrtaco and the homo-gang's happenings with their coworkers (osdn?) and all of the gay revelry they enjoy and promote. by the way, did i just see cmdrtaco on television promoting the nax hair removal system? i guess after using vaseline in and around his ass he grew quite a ponytail and it had to be removed somehow...ouch!

  3. Re:Microsoft's Taco-Snotting Connection (Score:-1, Troll)
    by TRoLLaXoR [slashdot.org] on 2001.11.21 3:59 (#2594191 [slashdot.org] )

    WIPO, do you notice how few comments you get for anything you write/post/spam nowadays?

    -Trollaxor

  4. Jon-Katz docking (Score:-1)
    by sales_worldwide [slashdot.org] on 2001.11.20 11:53 (#2588488 [slashdot.org] )

    You forgot to mention Jon Katz's "docking" games, where he places his chopper head to head with another chap, and rolls the other guys foreskin over his own circumcised end ("docking"), providing him with fantasies of actually having his own forskin ...
    "Making linux GPL was the best thing I ever did" - Torvalds. I'd hate to see the worst thing...

  5. Re:Snotting a first! (Score:-1)
    by Fucky the troll [slashdot.org] on 2001.11.20 11:28 (#2588446 [slashdot.org] )

    Woah! When did the WIPO troll get freed? And how the fuck did I miss it?

    Excellent FP, sir.

    This is a sig virus. Please put me in your sig

  6. Re:Snotting a first! (Score:-1, Troll)
    by Anonymous Coward on 2001.11.20 11:04 (#2588407 [slashdot.org] )

    omg that is crapflooding material if i ever saw it!!!!!! and u got a first post!!!! whoot to the wipo troll!!!

  7. GW, please.... (Score:0)
    by Anonymous Coward on 2001.11.19 9:03 (#2583756 [slashdot.org] )

    GW...you know we love every hair on your 27 acre ass... and I, for one, would never do anything untowards your graceful demeanor. And you probably have several friends that would love to help you do the bear dance all over my face if I so much as spelled your name wrong. And you know I'd defend your Constitutional right to defame God in heaven. I'd even help fund your education, should you ever decide to take that route. Hell, I'd buy you a tall tepid bear-whiz beer if you were here with me, right now!

    But. ...if you can't find another topic, I'm gonna step over your dead mother's grave and kick your assuredly anesthetitized butt clear across the playground.

    Now go stick your shaved head back down inside the woman's toilet, and just to show there's no hard feelings, I'll jump in the tow-truck and drive right over to help you pull it right out...ok?

    thanks

  8. Re:Help me Taco-Snotters!! (Score:-1)
    by mark knopfler 69 [slashdot.org] on 2001.11.19 8:25 (#2583695 [slashdot.org] )

    I DO NOT BELIEVE YOU SIR. FOR ONE THING, THE E-MAIL FROM CMDRTACO DOES NOT HAVE ENOUGH GRAMMATICAL AND SPELLING MISTAKES. Let's be realistic here, CmdrTaco usually types with one hand, and since he is shaking from jacking off his aim on the keyboard isn't too good. Those e-mails were a little too well written. Sorry boy, you'll have to do better.

  9. Re: What the hell is "taco snotting"? (Score:-1)
    by WeatherTroll [slashdot.org] on 2001.11.19 8:14 (#2583667 [slashdot.org] )

    You should update this to say VA Software instead of VA Linux.

  10. YOU ARE WINNER (Score:1)
    by smackmonkey [slashdot.org] on 2001.11.19 7:06 (#2583510 [slashdot.org] )

    Crackhead moderators: this is +5, Hilarious material.

    --
    CNN declares War on Islam!
    Left-wing America declares War on its Civil Liberties!

  11. Re:On Taco-Snotting 1.9 (Score:0)
    by Anonymous Coward on 2001.11.19 5:40 (#2583336) [slashdot.org]

    This was funny the first 100 times. Now it is getting boring!

  12. Digusting and Shameful (Score:-1)
    by egg troll [slashdot.org] on 2001.11.18 22:27 (#2582054 [slashdot.org] )

    Having masturbated *twice* to this post, I'm still incredibly aroused! Come over for a Taco Snot. I'll be wearing my crotchless Clifford the Big Red Dog outfit!!

    For more info check out this /. article [google.com]

  13. IMPROVE THE FAQ (Score:-1, Flamebait)
    by Anonymous Coward on 2001.11.18 12:03 (#2580822 [slashdot.org] )

    add more links to goatse and to cowboineal's site to make it better. a link to rotten.com would be nice too

    • Re:IMPROVE THE FAQ (Score:0)
      by Anonymous Coward on 2001.11.18 12:18 (#2580832 [slashdot.org] )

      and a link to michael's site and to jon katz's site if he has one and homo's site. i dont know what else to say. maybe a few links to phallic.org they have nice penis pictures! a link to the planet quake site or whatever. really make the reader feel this faq really answers their questions. oh yeah, and when you talk about cmdrtaco snotting you, say he brought you to "orgasm after sweaty orgasm". describe it more is all i'm saying. and use more italics and bolding! and when you talk about jon katz shitting or whatever have a link to fecal japan on rotten.com

      other wise a great job wipo troll! keep up the good work!

  14. Re:CmdrTaco's filthy secret! (Score:-1)
    by Wil Wheaton [slashdot.org] on 2001.11.18 6:41 (#2580438 [slashdot.org] )

    Hi. Let's be buddies.. butt buddies.
    --
    WIL WHEATON DOT NET [wilwheaton.net]

  15. WIPO speaks the truth (Score:-1)
    by dead_puppy [slashdot.org] on 2001.11.18 5:33 (#2580342 [slashdot.org] )

    Here is an e-mail I received a week ago:

    From: malda@slashdot.org
    To: puppy_dead@hotmail.com
    Subject: were where you last friday? :(

    I thought we where supposed to meet at Backdoor's at 8-ish, sugar-lips? You could've at least told me that you could'nt make it! I was even in my favorite pink skirt for you, honey-cup... next time, you could be more considarite and tell me you cant come... bastard.

    --
    CmdrTaco (malda@slashdot.org)

    You finding Ling-Ling's [babysue.com] head?

  16. Taco snotting is WRONG!!! (Score:-1)
    by Big_Ass_Spork [slashdot.org] on 2001.11.18 4:53 (#2580300 [slashdot.org] )

    I do it wrong

    Laying here in the shadows of my room, I squint up at my love. My Ms. Portman. I am sore and tired after fucking her for eight solid hours. My chapped and aching dick is soaking in grits to relieve the pain. She gets on her knees and starts lapping the grits up out of the bowl. She places her beautiful hands on my penis and starts to lick the grits off my achy piece.

    Massaging my nutsack she....

    WAIT, I DO IT WRONG!!!!

    Yanking my dick out of her mouth I throw her to the ground and shove it in to her gaping freshly fisted ass. [goatse.cx]

    "OH BIG ASS SPORK!! Fuck my ass, fuck my ass good. DEEPER, my stallion, deeper!! Make a Beowulf cluster of sperm on my back!!"

    "Imagine a Beowulf cluster of this baby!"

    I DO IT WRONG!!!!

    ---
    All your Sporks are belong to Big_Ass_Spork! What you say?! All your Sporks are belo... forget it...

  17. Rob Malda Dead at age 25! (Score:-1)
    by j0nkatz [slashdot.org] on 2001.11.17 22:54 (#2579596 [slashdot.org] )

    I just heard some sad news on the radio -- famous queerbait Rob Malda was found dead in his Holland home this morning. The details were a bit hazy, but it seems that he drowned in jizz while Taco Snotting his friend Hemos. I'm sure everyone in the /. community will miss him -- even if you didn't enjoy his queer antics and boring ass website, there's no denying his contributions to the homosesual cultural development, particularly in the areas of Taco snotting. Truly an American icon.

    I wanna Open Source sex so it won't be worth a shit either.

  18. TACO-SNOTTING is really Donkey-Punching (Score:-1, Troll)
    by Anonymous Coward on 2001.11.15 6:38 (#2567601 [slashdot.org] )

    No no no, the correct term for that is "donkey-punch". I have eye-witnessed this amazing eye-popping event demonstrated on unsuspecting hose-monsters by my frat brothers in the past.. . :-)

  19. Re:the effect of knowlege laws... (Score:1)
    by AbsoluteRelativity [slashdot.org] on 2001.11.15 5:31 (#2567457 [slashdot.org] )

    The WIPO Troll [foundus.com]
    Slashdot and the Karma Lottery - News for uber monkeys, by uber monkeys.

  20. Re:Taco-Snotting (Score:-1, Troll)
    by Anonymous Coward on 2001.11.13 9:27 (#2557632 [slashdot.org] )

    Oh, man that's just sick !

  21. HOW DO I GET AN ANONYMOUS PROXY? (Score:-1, Troll)
    by Anonymous Coward on 2001.11.13 9:03 (#2557604 [slashdot.org] )

    TELL ME WHERE I CAN GET AN ANONYMOUS proxy please WIPO Troll. Maybe later i will join you in a snotting at my place. ;P

  22. Re:Taco-Snottage!?!?!? (Score:-1, Offtopic)
    by vikool [slashdot.org] on 2001.11.13 7:43 (#2557495 [slashdot.org] )

    what is this bull shit,i feel offened that some people feel so so senseless to post stuff like these esp when such a tragic incident has occured

  23. Re:Taco-felching!! (Score:-1)
    by I.T.R.A.R.K. [slashdot.org] on 2001.11.11 22:38 (#2551890 [slashdot.org] )

    Where the fuck do I sign up?!

    - I throw rocks at retarded kids

    "Adequacy.org: Where congenital stupidity is not an option, but a requirement."

  24. Re:Taco-felching!! (Score:-1, Troll)
    by Anonymous Coward on 2001.11.11 21:53 (#2551753 [slashdot.org] )

    this shit is hilarious..keep up the good work.

  25. Re:Taco-felching!! (Score:-1, Offtopic)
    by rockwood [slashdot.org] on 2001.11.11 21:49 (#2551746 [slashdot.org] )

    OMG! That is the most disgusting thing I have ever heard! WHo in their right mind would sit down and waste the time to construct such a replusive story. I guess I'll be skipping lunch and dinner today.. and possibly tomorrow also. The game doesn't affect reality. Reality affects the game.

  26. Re:Ban this! It's disgusting!! (Score:0)
    by Anonymous Coward on 2001.11.11 14:43 (#2550701 [slashdot.org] )

    dude, this is crap-flood material if i ever saw it.
    duuuuuuuuudddddddddddddeeeeeeeee.

  27. Re:Taco-Snotting = HATE SPEECH (Score:-1, Flamebait)
    by Anonymous Coward on 2001.11.11 8:16 (#2550266 [slashdot.org] )

    horny_rob_6969@hotmail.com

    Ah, so that's what the alt.binaries.pictures.erotica.horny-rob newsgroup is about!

  28. MOD THIS UP PLEASE!!! (Score:-1)
    by egg troll [slashdot.org] on 2001.11.11 5:34 (#2550024 [slashdot.org] )

    +5, Arousing

    For more info check out this /. article [google.com]

  29. Re:Taco-Snotting = HATE SPEECH (Score:-1, Offtopic)
    by Anonymous Coward on 2001.11.11 4:39 (#2549891 [slashdot.org] )

    WINNER>

  30. Re:Taco-Snotting = HATE SPEECH (Score:-1, Offtopic)
    by Anonymous Coward on 2001.11.11 4:37 (#2549887 [slashdot.org] )

    I love you. Why do you use your bitchslapped account, rather than signing up for a new account to post at +1 before getting bitchslapped by the censors here? I guess I should speak for myself, but I don't want to log out and lose all my slashdot customization properties, nor do I want to lose my 50 karma yet.

  31. Re:On Taco-Snotting (Score:0)
    by Anonymous Coward on 2001.11.09 9:19 (#2542412 [slashdot.org] )

    you fucking rock! right down to the expanded cvs id!

    WIPO trolls > linux

________________________________________

$Id: tacosnotting.html,v 1.10 2001/11/21 05:16:58 wipo Exp $

GTK Seems solid, but slow on Solaris (2, Informative)

Dooferlad (101535) | more than 11 years ago | (#2603417)

...but a little slow on Solaris 8. Maybe it is just me, but my build of Mozilla really jerkey on a workstation (UltraSPARK III, 2G RAM). On the other hand The Gimp runs like a dream on my Windows box, and Mozilla is zappy on Linux.

--
Dooferlad

Re:GTK Seems solid, but slow on Solaris (1)

chegosaurus (98703) | more than 11 years ago | (#2603540)

Have you got some shared memory available to GTK on Solaris? Rebuild it to use mit-shm, and with no debugging code.

Gtk is equally quick on my Solaris/Linux/FreeBSD machines.

licensing (5, Informative)

Cardinal Biggles (6685) | more than 11 years ago | (#2603418)

Overall functionality, momentum for future growth, ease of use, licensing, and pretty much anything else is relevant to our decision.

To pick up your point on licensing, Qt is either GPL or pay. So if your application will also be GPL, it's free, if your application will not be GPL you will have to pay up for Qt. GTK is LGPL AFAIK (enough acronyms for you? ;-) so that will not stand in the way of making your app non-free.

BTW, if you know C++ and want to get to know a bit about Qt, they have a pretty good tutorial online here [trolltech.com] . Just walking through the examples made me realize just how cool it is, and how much you can do in just a few lines of code.

Re:licensing (3, Informative)

Snowfox (34467) | more than 11 years ago | (#2603533)

Overall functionality, momentum for future growth, ease of use, licensing, and pretty much anything else is relevant to our decision.
To pick up your point on licensing, Qt is either GPL or pay. So if your application will also be GPL, it's free, if your application will not be GPL you will have to pay up for Qt. GTK is LGPL AFAIK (enough acronyms for you? ;-) so that will not stand in the way of making your app non-free.

Just remember that you only need to give your source to any entity you give the binary to. Being GPL/LGPL doesn't mean you can't use it for business use; the license is entirely transparent for apps which will only be used internally.

slashdot really needs... (0, Offtopic)

bani (467531) | more than 11 years ago | (#2603419)

... a "flamebait" or "troll" story category ...

Re:slashdot really needs... (1)

fredrik70 (161208) | more than 11 years ago | (#2603527)

now, I would definetly mod this one as funny actually...

Licencing (3, Insightful)

CH-BuG (55283) | more than 11 years ago | (#2603423)

If you intend to develop a closed-source product, the licence of both library will probably need to be evaluated too. If you go for
an open licence, then it's of minor importance.
(Qt requires licencing fees if you want to keep
your sources closed).

Re:Licencing (2, Informative)

zmooc (33175) | more than 11 years ago | (#2603470)

As far as I know/understand, QT is GPL and GTK is LGPL so you can't make a closed-source application based on QT unless you buy a license from Trolltech.

Re:Licencing... and support (2)

SpinyNorman (33776) | more than 11 years ago | (#2603768)

I think Qt comes out ahead on the free/licensing issue; if you want to use it for free software, then Qt is GPL'd, but if you want to use it for commercial software you need to buy a licence - but most importantly that also brings you commercial support. In either case you have the source so that you can fix bugs or figure things out for yourself, but if you're working on a commercial project and under deadline pressure it's nice to have that commercial support available.

Cross platform? (1)

Nicolas MONNET (4727) | more than 11 years ago | (#2603424)

Are you going to develop two versions -- one for Windows using MFC and one for Linux using GTK or QT? -- or do you plan to use one library for both?

Using GTK excludes the latter, as while it can be used on Windows, and thus makes it possible to port programs such as Gimp to this platform, it's not exactly its most supported feature. And it doesn't look like native Windows.

On the other hand Qt is really supported on Windows -- actually, you have to pay for it.

plattforms (1)

omich (522296) | more than 11 years ago | (#2603425)

If MacOS-X might be a target platform for you, your choice should be QT.

Qt has better documentation (5, Interesting)

tgreiner (107912) | more than 11 years ago | (#2603427)

I have only scratched the surface of both GTK-- and QT, but I found QT to have a *very good* documentation. It has a complete class hierarchy documentation and comes with a load of example programs.

Another observation is that GTK-- is much more low-level than QT. If you want to extend it's components you might have to delve into the depths of the gdk library (which, in my view is only a thin wrapper around the X11-libs). QT on the other hand has a very good abstraction of windowing system details. Being mostly a Java programmer, I found the QT model very easy to use.

Of course, YMMV.

Re:Qt has better documentation (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#2603543)

Another observation is that GTK-- is much more low-level than QT.
Translation: GTK is far from done yet.

Sorry, there's a difference between low level and incomplete. QT does everything GTK does and more. If A can do 2 things, and B can do those 2 things as well as 10 things incorporating those 2 things, A is not more "low-level" than B. A is less complete than B.

Re:Qt has better documentation (2)

fault0 (514452) | more than 11 years ago | (#2603780)

> QT on the other hand has a very good abstraction of windowing system details.

Yup, this is because Qt is not a gui-toolkit but rather an application framework. It provides classes that work equally on all platforms that Qt supports, saving the user from writing a bunch of #ifdefs for particular platforms. It works really well :)

GTK+ C++ wrappers (5, Informative)

HalfFlat (121672) | more than 11 years ago | (#2603429)

I worked on a rushed project earlier this year, and used the gtk-- C++ wrapper for GTK, as well as the gnome-- wrapper (then still very much under development) for the Gnome libraries, specifically the canvas.

Personally, I found it frustrating to use. As these wrappers are still being worked on, the documentation is sketchy. The object-owning semantics are confusing (at least to me) - I was forever leaking memory or prematurely destroying objects. Trying to destroy something from within a menu callback I recall was particularly noisome. The gnome-- canvas wrappers were a moving target, though they may have since stabilised, and didn't fully expose the canvas API. Writing one's own canvas items is done in C, and then wrapped.

Perhaps with more persistance I might have figured out how to set up keyboard acceleration, but it is at anyrate a real battle to find documentation that explains what is going on with it. AFAIK, there is no straightforward way of making a multiple file selection in GTK+ 1.2. In gnome canvas (not GTK+, but a close cousin) there is promised functionality that is simply not implemented - I'm thinking here of smoothed lines, for which the code reads:

/* FIXME */

I haven't used QT yet. It certainly looks pretty, and a quick glance at the example code and docs provided seems to indicate that it's not too complicated, and well documented. I'd certainly shy away from GTK+ if a C++ interface is required.

The new version of GTK under development should address many of the shortcomings of the current toolkit, and includes goodies such as Pango. It is not yet in a stable state, however, with the API still undergoing final tweaking I believe.

Re:GTK+ C++ wrappers (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#2603621)

Sadly, you are mostly correct about the documentation part of GTK. In fact that's the biggest problem I have with it. One of the common responses from people on the gtk app dev mailing list is to "keep a copy of the source handy" which isn't really what most people have in mind when they want docs for a toolkit. Sure, it's the ultimate reference but hardly the most user friendly one.

Re:GTK+ C++ wrappers (1)

ghoti (60903) | more than 11 years ago | (#2603664)

Try wxWindows. The documentation is great, and it works very well on top of GTK (and Windows native).

Why not wxWindows? (1, Redundant)

joerg (55054) | more than 11 years ago | (#2603430)

Why don't you consider using wxWindows [wxwindows.org] ? It is a great portable toolkit for free (LGPL licensed).

wxWindows [wxwindows.org] has a very rich feature set for building GUIs, plus many other benefits like portable classes for threads, networking, ipc, file i/o, serialization and much more. It is available for almost any kind of UNIX-like OS, for any Windows version, and some more platforms like VMS.

It is a shame that wxWindows [wxwindows.org] doesn't yet get more attention.

A third alternative... :) (3, Informative)

jonathan_ingram (30440) | more than 11 years ago | (#2603431)

I'm a great fan of Qt, but I don't believe it's always the best toolkit to use for cross platform compatibility (although it is the best toolkit available for UNIX-based systems), plus there are complications about the licenses differing versions are available under. GTK-- and its competitors (Inti?) only have a very small user and documentation base, so they are probably not a good choice for a large commercial project.

If you want cross platform compatibilty with C++, then check out wxWindows [wxwindows.org] . It has ports to Windows, MacOS (9 & X), UNIX + Motif, UNIX + GTK. It also has a very well developed Python binding [wxpython.org] -- so well developed that quite a few people want it adopted as the official Python GUI instead of TKinter.

Re:A third alternative... :) (2)

fault0 (514452) | more than 11 years ago | (#2603791)

> good choice for a large commercial project.

Nah, Qt itself is probably the best choice for a commercial project. I'd use wxWindows for free software that targets many platforms tho, and Qt for X11-only free software.

> wxPython

Yeah, wxPython's really nice.

Before the flame wars start... (5, Insightful)

CaptainAlbert (162776) | more than 11 years ago | (#2603436)

My suggestion - try them out.

Come up with a few small use cases and let your developers loose on everything you can get your hands on. Both Qt and GTK+ are freely available enough for that to be a useful exercise.

You might find that, while Qt has nicer abstractions, and provides a familiar set of classes which are (IMO) far superior to MFC... perhaps GTK has a slight edge for lower level work (which it sounds like you might get involved in). Also, see which interface builder tools your team feels most comfortable with.

The problem with this question is that the replies are likely to degenerate quickly into a C vs. C++ rant-a-thon. Yes, GTK is entirely written in C. But it *is* object oriented. It seems strange to everyone at first, but just because a language doesn't support particular features, doesn't mean that you can't use a particular programming style. OO methodology is just as relevant to C programmers as to C++ or Java programmers.

If your programmers are good, they'll write good code whatever the toolkit. Just make sure everyone thinks that they got a say in the decision. ;-)

Portability to Win32 (4, Redundant)

kintel (28098) | more than 11 years ago | (#2603441)

AFAIK, the Win32 port of GTK+ is more or less a one-man show, making GTK pretty unstable and lagging behind on Windows.
In addition, Qt now has a Mac OS X port.

Add this to the excellent commercial support from Trolltech.

Design and language issues not taken into account.

Re: OS X port (2, Interesting)

smurfi (91140) | more than 11 years ago | (#2603672)

The downside is that QT is slow, which is because they fake all the high-level UI calls with low-level code. That's how you can run a QT program on the Mac, but with Win32 or Motif look-and-feel.

The HUGE disadvantage is that QT programs will never be as fast as "real" Mac programs, because all the UI stuff (bitmaps for buttons, for instance) will eat up memory space and disk access time. The other programs get the UI for free.

It's also a practice Apple doesn't like. At all. Remember the Mozilla port?

There's also the danger that OS X will pick up some new feature, like for instance voice-controlled mouse movement to UI elements or whatever. Every program will magically work with them, except for QT-based programs which will just sit there and look stupid until Troll gets around to update their (closed-source!) Mac port. :-/

Some REAL points (5, Insightful)

faber (142067) | more than 11 years ago | (#2603446)

Developing for a professional product I would always go with as many professional tools as possible.

To me QT seems to be the FAR better decision. It has true interoperablity between Win32, MacOS X and X11.

QT is C++ from the ground up, GTK-- is wrapping GTK++.

Furthermore with GTK you definitely write more code to accomplish the same.

QT 3 gives you access to SQL-databases from its widgets.

QT comes with a very good interface builder.

QT based programes feel snappier than GTK based ones.

One drawback might be that you have to preprocess (actually your Makefile has to) your code before its ready for the compiler, but that's not a big deal.

With Kdevelop you have access to a very good IDE.

One thing I don't know is how QT works in terms of different GUI threads, but I neither know for GTK.

So please, go with QT and be happy

A much harder decision would be: What should I use for my Web-Frontend, mod_perl or PHP... but that's a different story!

Re:Some REAL points (1, Insightful)

GiMP (10923) | more than 11 years ago | (#2603712)

> QT is C++ from the ground up, GTK-- is wrapping GTK++.

So?

> QT 3 gives you access to SQL-databases from its widgets.

Why?
> QT comes with a very good interface builder.
Use vim.

> QT based programes feel snappier than GTK based ones.
Opinionated

> With Kdevelop you have access to a very good IDE.
Use Vim.

> Furthermore with GTK you definitely write more code to accomplish the same.

Maybe, maybe not.. and if so, who cares? Maybe some people like to have a lot of options/power at their disposal.

Gtk is more commonly used then any other brand. Sure it sucks, but it sucks less.

Mozilla? (3, Insightful)

dannyspanner (135912) | more than 11 years ago | (#2603458)

I'm not trying to sound stupid or off-topic here, but have you considered Mozilla [mozilla.org] ? Beyond ther browser, they've developed a really interesting cross-platform C++ (and JavaScript) development platform. For a start there's a cross platform implementation of COM [mozilla.org] and you can develop your UI's in an XML dialect called XUL [mozilla.org] .

Fuck you (-1)

George WIPO Bush (308209) | more than 11 years ago | (#2603459)



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      |ewrivgor|. . . .|das|. .|dsa|. |jio|. . . . . |302|.|pod|
      |czm,ivqo|. . . .|dsa|. .|sda|. |czz|. . . . . |329||cvm|
      |qww|. . . . . . |sad|. .|dsa|. |qwe|. . . . . |fct||f03|
      |wwq|. . . . . . |sad|. .|das|. |vcz|. . . . . |cvm|.|ooq|
      |wwq|. . . . . . |asd|. .|sda|. |34vi. .|vm|. |cmp|. |ico|
      |qww|. . . . . . .|dsafkjsad|. . .|mcvzpewq|. |oiw|. .|301|
      |qww|. . . . . . . |dkljkdf|. . . .|392090|. . |;zz|. . |mzx|

      |mac|. . |mmn|. . . |oofo0o|. . . |asc|. .|cja|
      .|cvs| .|poe|. . . |mvfcpe3r|. . .|vco|. .|vio|
      . |vc3||oi3|. . . |ioa|. .|dfi|. .|cio|. .|903|
      . .|ioiewe|. . . .|io3|. .|ioo|. .|vmn|. .|ioo|
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      . . |iowr|. . . . . |mvioae|. . . . |vmiower|

Re:Fuck you (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#2603579)

excellent work, please keep it up..

i can't wait till the day the lameness filter gets so complex and convoluted and normal post will never get through.

What about wxWindows? (0, Redundant)

SerpentMage (13390) | more than 11 years ago | (#2603481)

Ever tried wxWindows? I and my company use it. IT IS REALLY nice and easy to use. And it is open source. Best of all it does "little" things like printing...

New GTK+ (4, Informative)

JanneM (7445) | more than 11 years ago | (#2603484)

Don't forget that an all-new GTK+ version is just coming out, a cleaner design, vastly improved i18n support, and all. I suggest you look at GTK2 (and it's C++ wrappers) as well, as this is what's going to be used, rather than the current version.

/Janne

Re:New GTK+ (1)

vrmlknight (309019) | more than 11 years ago | (#2603661)

GTK2 is comming out for *nix it will be a long while before its out on win32 or OS X

Well.. (2, Insightful)

DGolden (17848) | more than 11 years ago | (#2603491)

Geez. Talk about flamebait topic. Personally (and personal opinion only, here), I'd say, Qt is better designed, clearer, and easier from a programming standpoint - but it's actually not clean C++, what with its dodgy signals/slots stuff, that gtk-- manages to do within the bounds of the language.

If you're writing commercial, proprietary software, then you have to pay to use Qt - but Trolltech provide a thoroughly professionally supported toolkit to you for your money.

The Qt class library is actually more akin to the standard set of Java classes than just a widget set - there's decent cross-platform support for sockets, xml, threads, unicode, etc. It really makes C++ programming very easy.

OF course, there's other cross-platform C++ tollkits like FLTK [fltk.org] ... The gui toolkit page [geocities.com] lists many more.

Re:Well.. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#2603651)

Don't touch FLTK yet!

It is like Motif, only has basic gui primitives
(i.e. labels, boxes, windows, lists and menus.)

In a business application, you need alot of prewriten widgets, alot of specialized dialogs, etc.

Also, FLTK in win32, launches a DOS box with every
application. It is annoying.

Re:Well.. (2)

MSBob (307239) | more than 11 years ago | (#2603734)

Also, FLTK in win32, launches a DOS box with every

That's purely a command line switch to the compiler. You can compile FLTK so that it doesn't do that. But I agree with you about the sparse widget set aspect of it.

Re:Well.. (2)

joss (1346) | more than 11 years ago | (#2603789)

Agreed - the widget set is not huge. Then again, I've never encountered another toolkit where writing your own low level widgets was as easy.

QT comes 2nd IMNSHO. Better widget set, but not as fast or flexible.

As for the DOS window - do shut up, your ignorance is showing. Compile the 50 or so
example programs that come with fltk in release mode and observe the lack of any dos windows. For those too slow to type "fltk dos window" into google:

> For MSVC++ the switch to the linker is:
>
> /SUBSYSTEM:WINDOWS /ENTRY:mainCRTStartup

Sorry. (0, Offtopic)

buzzbomb (46085) | more than 11 years ago | (#2603495)

I wanted to take Friday off too, but the boss said I couldn't.

Guess you'll have to do your own homework.

If internationalisation matters... (3, Insightful)

tempfile (528337) | more than 11 years ago | (#2603497)

...go for Qt. Gtk, IMO, has the huge disadvantage that the current 1.2 revision doesn't support Unicode, whereas Qt fully relies on it and even provides GUI-independent helper classes for all kinds of Unicode conversion that you can use anywhere in the program. This would also help for the mathematical symbols that you probably want to display. It looks like Gtk2 will use Unicode and Pango, thus potentially blowing away the competition, but as long as there's no stable version of Gtk2, I'd go for Qt.

I switched from Gtk-- to Qt (3, Insightful)

Per Abrahamsen (1397) | more than 11 years ago | (#2603507)

From a conceptual point of view, I like Gtk-- better. It actually uses the modern C++ language, including the C++ type system. This way you avoid the need for a preprocessor, and get static typechecking instead of "dynamic typechecking" (i.e. "the user does the checking"), which is the entire point of using C++ in the first place. It also use the standard C++ library instead of duplicating it poorly, so you don't have to deal with multiple string types and the like. Since the application is a GUI frontend to a library written in standard C++, using the standard C++ library classes, this matter a lot. Qt is written for an ancient subset of C++, something closer to "C with Classes" than the C++ standard.

However, Qt is simple to use, well documented, and have stable API's. In practice, these make it much easier to use than Gtk--.

As an extra plus, Qt is GPL and therefore more gnulitically correct than Gtk--, which is only LGPL.

Re:I switched from Gtk-- to Qt (3, Informative)

Dr. Evil (3501) | more than 11 years ago | (#2603556)

As an extra plus, Qt is GPL and therefore more gnulitically correct than Gtk--, which is only LGPL.

The LGPL was written specifically to get around the 'viral' aspects of the GPL. Meaning that while Gtk-- gives you the option to GPL your product, QT does not. With QT you MUST use the GPL... unless you pay Troll Tech an arbitrary, although currently quite reasonable sum.

Fuck me, please! (-1)

George WIPO Bush (308209) | more than 11 years ago | (#2603517)



    • |jkldf;jizofw|. .|asd|. .|dsa|. . .|wavcx|. . .|cvb|. . |ioe|
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      |czm,ivqo|. . . .|dsa|. .|sda|. |czz|. . . . . |329||cvm|
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      |wwq|. . . . . . |sad|. .|das|. |vcz|. . . . . |cvm|.|ooq|
      |wwq|. . . . . . |asd|. .|sda|. |34vi. .|vm|. |cmp|. |ico|
      |qww|. . . . . . .|dsafkjsad|. . .|mcvzpewq|. |oiw|. .|301|
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      |mac|. . |mmn|. . . |oofo0o|. . . |asc|. .|cja|
      .|cvs| .|poe|. . . |mvfcpe3r|. . .|vco|. .|vio|
      . |vc3||oi3|. . . |ioa|. .|dfi|. .|cio|. .|903|
      . .|ioiewe|. . . .|io3|. .|ioo|. .|vmn|. .|ioo|
      . . |coid|. . . . |moi|. .|ioe|. .|mvo|. .|oi3|
      . . |mvoe|. . . . |cvb|. .|jio|. .|poq|. .|mv1|
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FOX Toolkit (1)

Phantasiere (209248) | more than 11 years ago | (#2603542)

Have you looked into the FOX Toolkit? It's written in C++, is available on many UNIX and Windows platforms and has many bindings to other languages (Ruby, Python, Eiffel). You can find it here [fox-toolkit.org] .

Re:FOX Toolkit (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#2603572)

Really impressive are the screenshots of little red X's.

QT forces non standard c++ use (2, Interesting)

Charley's Angel (307730) | more than 11 years ago | (#2603555)

The big difference is that gtk-- is based on the C++ standard library, and so allows you do use familiar and efficient constructs like std::vector, std::string and so on.

QT has reimplemented all those things as a rather dodgy set of proprietry classes, which lock you into, for example using QString rather than std::string throughout your application, or doing a lot of extraneous conversions every time you need to talk to the GUI.

In its favour, QT does have much better documentation than gtk--, but all the same, I prefer the standards based gtk--.

Re:QT forces non standard c++ use (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#2603564)

Hooray for cross platform standard classes. You can definitely tell that QT is trying to turn itself into a platform instead of a GUI toolkit can't you? How long before it has classes that do most of what Java can do? Does QT provide any collections (standard data structures) classes as well?

Re:QT forces non standard c++ use (1)

Charley's Angel (307730) | more than 11 years ago | (#2603602)

Yes it does, it also includes its own cut down version of the stl as well, for god only knows what purpose.

I don't think that is really in the remit of a gui toolkit at all.

Re:QT forces non standard c++ use (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#2603615)

QT is not a just a GUI toolkit - it is a platform toolkit, including Sockets, GUI, etc.

Re:QT forces non standard c++ use (1)

grrussel (260) | more than 11 years ago | (#2603640)

Its not the remit of a GUI toolkit, but Qt isn't just a GUI toolkit ;-) , it also is a cross platform development platform. So it provides cross platform facilities for many activities - file access, sockets, database access, printing, font handling, Unicode and internationalisation, preference handling, XML support including SVG, various image formats, regexps, data and time classes, multimedia classes as well as a GUI builder.

Since it tries to be as cross platform as possible, it uses the subset of C++ which is fairly portable amongst various compilers including GCC, and proprietary compilers for AIX and other Unices. Part of being portable is being tolerant of compiler differences, bugs, unsupported portions of the language and the fact that you cannot assume the most recent compiler version is available for use.

Re:QT forces non standard c++ use (1)

hpj (26910) | more than 11 years ago | (#2603638)

The reason for this as far as I can tell is that Qt has had these classes long before gcc supported a working STL and now keeps them to be binary compatible. I think though in 3.0 that they are STL based. When it comes to QString it is far superior to std::string since it is unicode which is really a boon when writing internationalized application. As long as you keep track of what you write/read to disk you don't have to care about different character encodings etc, it just works.

/Mauritz
GlobeCom AB

I think we're missing the crux of this article.... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#2603582)

"The company I work for is getting ready to decide on a GUI Toolkit for
our Computational Modeling Toolkit (CoMeT, www.cometsolutions.com)."

It was nothing more and nothing less than a way of getting tens of thousands of nerds to visit the company URL.

The only other possibility is that he _really is_ asking Slashdot readers for programming advice. In which case he should just save us the trouble and link to fuckedcompany.com.

Easy! (4, Funny)

zensonic (82242) | more than 11 years ago | (#2603589)

Qt is 3.0

Gtk is 1.2.x

Sure it's friday, but come on, thats easy 3.0>1.2, so the choice must be Qt!

Same reasoning shows that Windows 2000 are MUCH better than Windows 98 which in turn is slightly (by 3 point) better than Windows 95, which again are MUCH better than windows 3.11.

Sigh. Does you youngsters not learn anything today?

Re:Easy! (4, Funny)

damiam (409504) | more than 11 years ago | (#2603781)

So Mozilla build 20012311 must be the best piece of software ever made!

For Win32.. use neither (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#2603592)

Please don't port your software to Win32 unless you plan to rewrite the GUI to use native Win32 gadgets. The last thing the windows world needs is the GTK and QT bloat. The Windows world is already bloated enough.

Some points from using Qt. (5, Informative)

hpj (26910) | more than 11 years ago | (#2603660)

I have been using Qt for some years now starting with Qt 1.0 some years ago. I have also tried to both patch GTK+ programs and in one instance port one of my Qt applications to GTK+ (I was preferring gnome at the time).

The advantages I can see from using Qt is:

* Superb design. The OO design of Qt is really thought out. There are virtual function to do all the basic things you can think of and if you think of something really clever there are lowlevel routines to do that too.

* Superb documentation. A comprehensive, hypertext help and in Qt3 an included help browser. This is really an advantage since GTK+ not really being supported by a commercial entity suffer from lots of "I'll rather code than document" in the libraries.

* Good migration path to new versions. I have a program consisting of ~100000 lines of code (An Oracle client http://www.globecom.net/tora) which I migrated to Qt3.0 in about 2 hours, some of that time was spent using Qt3 specific features also like docked windows where appropriate.

* Not only a GUI toolkit. It also includes primitives for handling threading, I/O (files and sockets), UNICODE conversions and also some basic template classes made mostly obsolete now that STL is starting to actually work in GCC.

* Truly multiple platform. The application above was ported to Windows in about a day, all of the problems related to the fact that Visual C++ understands a different dialect of C++ than most of us are used to and that took some time write around, none of it was Qt specific. The extra thread and I/O classes really helps here as well.

/Mauritz
GlobeCom AB

Clearly an unfair comparison... (4, Funny)

pastie (80784) | more than 11 years ago | (#2603673)

...as everyone knows that the software with the highest version number is obviously the best.

(Score:-1, Sarcastic)

If you want better cross platform support.. (3, Insightful)

MongooseCN (139203) | more than 11 years ago | (#2603678)

..make your application interface independant. The idea is to make your program a basic application that can run without a gui. The gui is then a plugin or something. That way you can take one application and write a gui using gtk, QT, win32, whatever you want and never have to rewrite the application. This is how licq works. The licq application is stand alone and you can download interface plugins for it, QT plugins, gtk plugins even command line plugins. This is great for me since QT doesn't run on the platform I use, so I have to use the commandline plugin.

Don't lock yourself into one gui and hope that it will cover all the platforms you need, most of them don't. Allow any kind of gui to work with your program, not only is it more cross platform compatible, but other people can create guis for your application without ever have to touch the applications code.

FLTK or FOX (a little OT) (1)

Omnivorous Cowbird (457986) | more than 11 years ago | (#2603680)

Both libraries you mentioned have their disadvantages (one isn't always free and isn't normal C++, the other doesn't exactly have the best windoze support), but IMHO, FLTK [fltk.org] and FOX [fox-toolkit.org] both seem to avoid these pitfalls. Both support windoze and unixy platforms with X. FOX is capable of doing more things, but FLTK is as fast a heck.

OpenGL support (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#2603681)

As your're searching for a "GUI Toolkit for our Computational Modeling Toolkit" I guess you'll need also OpenGL support for your app. I'm doing crossplattform computer graphics together with OpenGL and I'm very satisfied with QT's OpenGL support. I also want to underline the high quality in terms of stability, consistency and documentation of the QT toolkit.

GLOW, cross-platform toolkit for 3D apps (2)

Animats (122034) | more than 11 years ago | (#2603721)

Lately I've been using, of all things, GLOW [sourceforge.net] . GLOW is a cross-platform toolkit built on top of OpenGL and GLUT. The internal architecture is sound, but the widget set is sparse. I've had to fix a few problems in GLOW, but nothing serious. GLOW is on SourceForge.

GLUT, the widely used cross-platform wrapper for OpenGL, has problems when used in a multi-window application, and those problems affect GLOW programs. I've been documenting the problems and sending them to the current maintainer of GLUT, and they may eventually get fixed. Supported platforms are Win32 and X.

These alternatives are only useful if you're writing a 3D application. Otherwise, use one of the 2D toolkits.

Also a little OT: Java SWT (1, Offtopic)

PRR (261928) | more than 11 years ago | (#2603733)

Something to keep in mind even though it's still in it's very early stages... IBM is behind a new Java API for GUI's called SWT (Standard widget toolkit). In a nutshell, it's sort of a combo of AWT and Swing. It uses mostly native widgets (like AWT) for better performance, memory footprint, and native L&F... but also makes use of emulated widgets (like Swing) for the occasions when a particular peered component may not exist on a given platform.

More info on SWT can be found at the Eclipse website [eclipse.org] as well as a good intro article here [javareference.com] . Right now it supports Win32 MFC as well as (somewhat ugly) Motif for Linux, but Qt and GTK ports are being worked on. As always with Java, portability is a strong consideration, and the hope is that an app written with SWT will work on a wide variety of platforms and native toolkits.

Use QT (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#2603760)

QT is clearly superior. If you can get your
company to pay for it, use it. This would be
good for two reasons: you'd get a clearly
superior toolkit that would give you a much
cleaner and shorter development cycle and you
would send troll tech some support for their
excellent work. (What they've done for the Linux
community by writing QT is immesurable.)

As far as my take on the gnome/kde holy war, I
think the above paragraph speaks for itself.
There is no substitute for coherent design. QT
has it, GTK-- doesn't.

My company went through this... (5, Informative)

cjhuitt (466651) | more than 11 years ago | (#2603772)

About a year ago, the company I work for went through this. (This was before I worked for them.) The company debated the merits of Gtk-- and Qt. The basic conclusions were that Qt would (or at least, should) have the better support and documentation, and lack minor irregularities. However, when it was all computed, the deciding factor was the licensing fees. Since our software would be quasi-commercial (we are a consulting company, but for a fee, we provide companies with portions of our software as well) we would have to pay the licensing fee for Qt. This was a lot more than was thought our ~6 person (at the time) company could afford, so we went with Gtk-- pretty much only for that reason.

Now that we have been using Gtk--, we have relatively few regrets. The documentation was poor, for a time, but they have semi-recently improved the documentation, and it is quite workable. There are some small things that you would think would be done differently, but overall they are very minor and easy to live with.

Since we aren't concerned (yet) with porting our software, that wasn't much of an issue. Of course, your situation may be different there.

Finally, echoing what other people have said here, Gtk-- can be quite low level at times. I would recommend that if you decide upon Gtk--, you do what our company has done. We created our own set of libraries that provide standard looks to things with minimal hassle, derived from the Gtk-- classes. An example of this would be windows. We have our own window class that sets up standard options that Gtk-- allows to vary considerably. (Additionally, it automatically checks for certain keystrokes, like the F1 key, and signals that fact.) Making a button class would be similar, so all of your buttons are approximately the same size, have the same shading, etc. We were late in figuring this out, but it has greatly simplified our code and made our program look much more consistent.

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