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Where are the non-SDMI MP3 Players?

Cliff posted more than 12 years ago | from the you-may-have-to-look-off-the-shelf dept.

Music 550

alen asks: "I'm in the market for an MP3 player. I've been looking at various models and they all seem to be SDMI ready or compliant. Looking at customer reviews on Amazon confirms this as you'll find at least one person saying you can't transfer the music from the MP3 player to your PC. At least on the newer players you do." I've been resisting the urge to get an MP3 player for precisely this reason, opting to use my laptop and a cassette adaptor for those long driving trips, but this is hardly affordable or efficient. Handhelds might work, but memory is a problem here. Are there any players out there that haven't forgotten the "fair" part in "fair-use"?

"So far I have narrowed my search to 3 choices. I want it to sound very good and be able to play music encoded at 128kb or higher.

The Rio Volt 250 is a CD based player so the SDMI thing doesn't really apply. The Creative Labs Nomad II" proudly displays this as a feature. The Samsung Yepp doesn't use SDMI, but something called SecuMax as stated in the Nomad II technical specs on Amazon. And this little tid bit on the Samsung Yepp homepage confirms that SecuMax is just like SDMI.

Now I'm not looking to download any illegal music from the Internet. I simply want to listen to my CD collection on the train to work or while working out. And there is freely downloadable music out there. If I were to download a song at work or a friend's house, put it in my MP3 player I then wouldn't be able to transfer it back to my PC at home to add to my collection. Where is 'fair use' when the artist is giving away their music for free? And I don't have the link, but what of the recent surges in so called 'secure' CD's that one can't rip into MP3's? Where is the 'fair use' there? Or are we supposed to purchase multiple copies of the same music in different formats?"

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iPod? (5, Interesting)

jspectre (102549) | more than 12 years ago | (#2619567)

Anther point for the iPod.. No nasty copy-protection. :-)

Re:iPod? (3, Funny)

pi radians (170660) | more than 12 years ago | (#2619653)

Not true. There is a sticker on it that specifically states "Don't steal music".

Now you know.

Re:iPod? (1)

42forty-two42 (532340) | more than 12 years ago | (#2619730)

Darn, there go all my plans to walk into the RIAA hq and take their confiscated mp3s...

Re:iPod? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2619739)

So when I copy my CDs to my iPod it's called stealing now?

Re:iPod? (3, Informative)

mblase (200735) | more than 12 years ago | (#2619766)

Except you can't sync the iPod's playlists to more than one Mac. (However, you can copy it manually, which is more than these other players seem to be doing.)

Women - The Myth of the Internet (-1, Flamebait)

egg troll (515396) | more than 12 years ago | (#2619568)

I would like to take a minute out to dispel a rumor that has been oozing around the Internet for quite sometime. This is a foul and insidious bit of gossip that's only used to provoke a negative reaction from people. Perhaps you've heard this rumor: That women use the Internet.

Now, this thought is quite patently absurd. To begin with, women simply aren't smart enough to use it. A woman's mind is pre-programmed, if you will, to cook and care for children and little else. Working with a global network of computers is simply not in her genes. When put in front of a computer, your typical woman will stare at it before attempting to use it to prepare dinner for her hard-working husband.

Of course monkey's have been taught sign-language, so it is theoretically possible that a woman, guided by the all-powerful mind of a man, might be able to use some of the more simplistic features of America Online. Perhaps sending a rudimentary instant messange asking how to clean a pair of her spouse's slacks. But lets enter the realm of imagination for a moment and we'll see why even if they had the mental ability to use the Internet, most little ladies still wouldn't.

The reason for this is that most women simply lack the desire. All women find the greatest joy in life to be spent in the kitchen preparing a wholesome dinner, or in the bedroom serving her husband. While some women may dispute this, its a scientific fact that this is just a coy game some women play to attract a mate. Deep inside they all crave the glowing warmth that comes making a roast beef in a Crock Pot.

So the next time you hear someone claiming to be a "woman" on the Internet, think twice. I am saddened to say this, but most likely it is nothing more than a homosexual attempting to get his jollies with this immoral act. Remember what Egg Troll says: On the Internet, the men are men...and so are the women.

Thank you.

[Ed. Note - It has since come to my attention that there have been reported sightings of women using the Internet. However, in all cases these women turned out to be lesbians. So if you should see a woman using the Internet, she will be a dyke in all cases.]

Re:Women - The Myth of the Internet (0, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2619723)

I would like to take a minute out to dispel a rumor that has been oozing around the Internet for quite sometime. This is a foul and insidious bit of gossip that's only used to provoke a negative reaction from people. Perhaps you've heard this rumor: That pubescent geek males have sex. Now, this thought is quite patently absurd. To begin with, pubescent geek males simply aren't handsome enough to get it. A PGM's mind is pre-programmed, if you will, to troll slashdot and download porn and little else. Chatting with a real live female is simply not in his genes. When put in front of a female, your typical PGM will stare at it before attempting to play quake III on it. Of course monkey's have been seen having sex, so it is theoretically possible that a PGM, guided by the all-powerful mind of a mature woman, might be able to kiss a female. Perhaps even with tongues. But lets enter the realm of imagination for a moment and we'll see why even if they had the mental control not to prematurely ejaculate, most little geeks still wouldn't get past first base. The reason for this is that most geeks simply lack the desire. All geeks find the greatest joy in life to be spent in the cellar installing mandrake, or in the shopping mall licking windows. While some geeks may dispute this, its a scientific fact that this is just a coy game some geeks play to attract a mate. Deep inside they all crave the glowing warmth that comes from overclocking an Athlon. So the next time you hear someone claiming to be a "geek" having sex, think twice. I am saddened to say this, but most likely it is nothing more than a wet dream. Remember what Egg Troll says: A geek couldn't get laid in a brothel with a 20 pound note tied around his cock. Thank you. [Ed. Note - It has since come to my attention that there have been reported sightings of geeks having sex. However, in all cases these geeks turned out to be train spotters. So if you should see a geek using the Internet, it will actually be a train spotter - a much superior race.]

Re:Women - The Myth of the Internet (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2619734)

Are you calling my mother a lesbian!?!?!?!?

Two words (-1)

I.T.R.A.R.K. (533627) | more than 12 years ago | (#2619573)

Rio Volt.
Just burn mp3's to CD, and enjoy.

- I throw rocks at retarded kids

Ipod! (1, Informative)

Noodlenose (537591) | more than 12 years ago | (#2619575)

Go for the Ipod! Dirk

Re:Ipod! (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2619644)

Yes, but then you have to buy a Mac. Clearly the readers of slashdot are past the hand-holding and don't need to pay a premium for colored plastic.

Memory on handhelds (2, Interesting)

bnatale (532324) | more than 12 years ago | (#2619577)

Memory is not a problem with handhelds. Get one that uses compact flash cards and you even can use a 1GB IBM Microdrive. I use an iPAQ with a microdrive as mp3 player and it works great. The only problem is the size and the battery.

Re:Memory on handhelds (1)

homer_ca (144738) | more than 12 years ago | (#2619677)

Yeah, battery life does suck on a Microdrive. It's a little more expensive per MB, but a 512MB Compactflash costs about the same as a 1GB Microdrive. Better battery life and no moving parts. 256MB are a little cheaper, about $.50/MB.

archos jukebox (5, Informative)

theridersofrohan (241712) | more than 12 years ago | (#2619581)

Try the archos jukebox (http://www.archos.com )

A hard drive based solution, comes at 6GB-20GB flavors, works under Linux (I'm using it with the usb-storage module), and I got it for around £150 (british pounds).

Great for transfering data as well: Windows finds it as a normal drive, and I can mount it under linux (vfat).

Cheers,
Stefanos

Re:archos jukebox (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2619601)

I use the Archos on road trips, it works great. It also uses standard AA rechargable batteries. You can void the warranty and open it and replace the stock NiCads with something better, or replace the stock batteries if you wear them out.
Its kind of ugly, but small and works well.

Re:archos jukebox (2, Interesting)

alek202 (462912) | more than 12 years ago | (#2619642)

Altough the software still has a few minor bugs, it is a very good box (don't forget you get a *real* usb hard drive for your money also). I have the Archos Jukebox Recorder [archos.com] which I primarly use for professional audio recording (yes, that's right, we use it to create live cuts of our DJ sets at various clubs). At the studio [monday-rec.com] , I just plug the recorder into the workstation, and upload the realtime-encoded MP3s to the web. Unfortunately, the Jukebox Recorder only does VBR encoding, but with around 170kbps it is sufficent.

Cheers,
Timo

Re:archos jukebox (3, Informative)

Quaryon (93318) | more than 12 years ago | (#2619755)

I second this - I'm listening to my jukebox 6000 as I write. I've ripped out the original 6Gb hard disk (you can now get a 20Gb version too, called the "studio 20") and inserted a 30Gb one - since it takes standard 9.5mm height 2.5" drives this is quite a simple operation, and it uses a normal FAT filesystem so you can use all the normal tools on it (defrag, scandisk, whatever..) The PC sees it as an extra drive using the standard USB hard disk mechanism so it works under Windows or Linux, and I believe Mac as well (I don't have a Mac so I can't test it..)

It has a few idiosyncrasies so it's well worth reading the list at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/archosjukebox6000 [yahoo.com] (requires registration) to pick up all the necessary hints and tips - the support there is probably better than you will get from Archos themselves.

The JB6K has the advantage that you can copy whatever files you want onto it - if they're MP3 format it will play them, if not it will ignore them so you can use it just as an external portable hard disk. It'll cope with MP3's encoded up to 320kbit/s CBR or VBR. It also has upgradable firmware so theoretically it could be made to support other sound formats although there doesn't seem to be any sign that Archos are moving towards this.

Q.

Seconded and amended - try the jukebox recorder! (5, Informative)

isaac (2852) | more than 12 years ago | (#2619761)

I agree with the parent that Archos seems to have the best MP3 devices at the moment. In particular, though, I would recommend staying away from their cheaper "Jukebox 6000" and "Studio 20" products, in favor of their "Jukebox Recorder" machine.

Highlights of this thing?
- Works great on any OS that supports USB storage devices; when attached, mounts like any other USB hard disk. Will store anything you put on there.
- Hackable; will take any 9.5mm 2.5" laptop hard disk. I replaced the stock 6 GB disk with a 20 GB mechanism without any problems.
- Unlike the cheaper models, the Recorder (which goes for around $300-$350 these days) does real-time MP3 recording from analog line-in, digital SPDIF, or an onboard mic!
- Digital in doubles as digital out when not recording.
- The Recorder has a MUCH, MUCH BETTER interface than the cheaper jukeboxes, with an 8-line screen that during playback shows ID3 info (or directory info if file is untagged), elapsed/remaining/total time, left and right VU meters, and labels for the three soft-button function keys.
- Also, the recorder has greatly superior sound compared to the cheaper jukeboxes, with base/treble/loudness/balance adjustments and plenty of volume.

And of course, no SDMI anywhere in sight. The iPod looks nicer, and firewire is cool, but with a 20 gig disk in mine, I've got 4x the capacity of an iPod in a package not much bigger, with digital i/o and real-time mp3 recording abilities. Oh yeah, 10-hour battery life, too, using standard replacable NiMH AA cells.

-Isaac

I like the CD option personally (5, Insightful)

night_flyer (453866) | more than 12 years ago | (#2619585)

might be a little more bulky, but you dont have to worry about a memeory chip going bad, and you can pack around 150 songs at a higher bitrate on a cd and know what you have in the player.

as for copying "back" to your collection, if its such a big deal to steal the music, borrow the CD and rip it yourself.

Re:I like the CD option personally (2)

Splork (13498) | more than 12 years ago | (#2619615)

I second this opinion. I make CD-Rs full of 256kbit/sec MP3s out of my audio cd collection. There are plenty of devices that can play these now including half of the dvd players on shelves out there today.

Re:I like the CD option personally (3, Interesting)

Paladin128 (203968) | more than 12 years ago | (#2619728)

There are some problems with the CD option. I personally want a solid state option, because I do not want the damn thing to skip when I'm working out.

The CD option is great if you have a burner and just need it for your daily commute. This is not at all an option for highly-active people, however. The solid state ones are smaller, more rugged, and skip-free.

Re:I like the CD option personally (2)

night_flyer (453866) | more than 12 years ago | (#2619744)

never said there wernt problems :)

for working out/excessive movement, the memory chip models are definitally the way to go, but from my stand point, I can archive my Music collection, and play the same medium on my home system, my computer system at work and in my car once I purchase that piece of equipment.

do moderators even read the articles? (2)

night_flyer (453866) | more than 12 years ago | (#2619764)

The Rio Volt 250 is a CD based player so the SDMI thing doesn't really apply

nuff said...

Archos Jukebox (1)

Carnivore (103106) | more than 12 years ago | (#2619589)

The Archos family of hard drive based MP3 players have nothing to do with SDMI or any copy control whatsoever.
They're cheap compared to the flashram devices and they are pretty high quality, I have heard

iPod (4, Informative)

Green Light (32766) | more than 12 years ago | (#2619594)

For the FireWire-equipped PeeCee (or Mac, obviously), you can not only carry your music collection (or at least a large percentage of it) around with you, but can transfer the files to any suitably equipped machine. The music files are in an invisible directory on the iPod, and are easy to find.

Philips eXpanium (2)

mirko (198274) | more than 12 years ago | (#2619595)

Burn your MP3 on CDs and play them in a Philips eXpanium [zdnet.com] ...
10 hours of music in a Discman-like device.

Re:Philips eXpanium (1)

glwtta (532858) | more than 12 years ago | (#2619751)

I've been looking at getting one of those (eXpanium) - anyone have experience with them?

Re:Philips eXpanium (2, Informative)

mirko (198274) | more than 12 years ago | (#2619774)

Yep, the sound is fabulous, the autonomy and fault-tolerance are more than okay (I have some dusty CDs ;-)...

My only cons is that I have to hide these from the frozen wind when I am biking (here in Switzerland it had some "hickups" around -5 degrees (Celsius))

BTW it can also read standard Audio CDs.

Nex II (1)

Yodster (180686) | more than 12 years ago | (#2619597)

its what works
no sdmi
very simple and yet uses compact flash for better expandability then smartmedia
it just rocks

Re:Nex II (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2619633)

yeah, i have one, they kick ass.
you can use a microdrive in it, or a compactflash type 2 (you can find 160 mb CF typeII cards for cheap)
and you can use it as an external drive to transport any files. (i think that works in linux too, but i'm not too sure)
try www.mp3playerstore.com if u wanna buy one, especially if you're from canada or us. they have it for cheap and i think it's free shipping now

CD players (1)

kkirk007 (304967) | more than 12 years ago | (#2619602)

There are several MP3 CD players out there. Just burn a CD full of MP3s (800MB will get you quite a few MP3s)...a 4GB MP3 collection will all fit on 4 CDs, and they're very handy. Plus, you can still trade the CDs full of MP3s with friends and transfer them to other computers with no problem.

Re:CD players (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2619654)

a 4GB MP3 collection will all fit on 4 CDs

800MB = 1GB?

Even hard drive makers don't lie that much!

The original Rio PMP300 ... (3, Insightful)

irq (68200) | more than 12 years ago | (#2619605)

The original Rio PMP300 will let you take files out of it, as long as you don't use the software that came with it. If you use the *nix rio tool by the Snowblind Alliance, you can put any file in the rio, and take any file out of the rio, and use it as a generic storage device, albeit not a very good one because SmartMedia is expensive. The limitation on pulling stuff out of it is only in the rio desktop software.

Re:The original Rio PMP300 ... (1)

ViXX0r (188100) | more than 12 years ago | (#2619696)

I was going to write that exact same comment - more or less :)

Lets hear it for the Rio PMP300 - mine's still thumping along.

I don't think that word means what you think... (4, Interesting)

elmegil (12001) | more than 12 years ago | (#2619611)

"Fair Use" in the context of copyright has a pretty specific meaning. It has to do with use of sections of a copyrighted work for review purposes and for educational purposes (among others, I make no claim to being complete in my description). But it has nothing to do with "that's not fair" as both the poster and the editor seem to believe.

C'mon people, we won't be taken seriously if we can't even learn the jargon.

Re:I don't think that word means what you think... (2)

baptiste (256004) | more than 12 years ago | (#2619651)

C'mon people, we won't be taken seriously if we can't even learn the jargon.

Wait - I believe almost everyone here will tell you they believe fair use to mean 'If I buy a song/movie, I can make copies of that said media for MY personal use only. This is commonly referred to as 'fair-use' and grew out of the rulingas and laws passwed when VCRs first came onto the scene. Now the jargon may be wrong, though EVERYONE seems to use it when referring to this scneario) SO if the term fair-use isn't the right term IYHO for personal copying for personal use, what is?

Re:I don't think that word means what you think... (0)

jon787 (512497) | more than 12 years ago | (#2619683)

It does mean that I can make backup copies or copies in an alternative form of something I bought. I still have compter games where step one of the installation procedure is to COPY the installation disks!

Re:I don't think that word means what you think... (2, Interesting)

steelwraith (141362) | more than 12 years ago | (#2619700)

C'mon people, we won't be taken seriously if we can't even learn the jargon.

Frag the jargon.. they'll take us seriously when we don't buy their SDMI 'enhanced' crap and instead go around/through them.

There is no encryption that cannot be broken

There is no hardware that cannot be hacked

But there is no way to remove or restrain my desire to exercise the rights guaranteed to a U.S. citizen under the U.S. Constitution - and Fair Use does mean the ability for me to make a back-up copy of the material I have lawfully purchased. Too bad for the corps if it is in a format they do not approve of.

Re:I don't think that word means what you think... (3, Informative)

JASegler (2913) | more than 12 years ago | (#2619701)

I believe the "fair" part they are talking about relates to time shifting and media conversion.
It's fair use to copy an LP to cassette so you can play it in your car.
It's fair use to copy a CD to cassette so you can play it in your car.
It's fair use to convert a CD to mp3 so you can play it in your computer/mp3 player.

The fair use part is that you bought it once. You shouldn't have to buy it for every media type on the planet.

Even under the "license" model. The person has purchased a license to listen to a piece of music. The media in which it is stored is irrelevant. Of course if the RIAA ever switched to a convoluted EULA like MS's...

-Jerry

Re:I don't think that word means what you think... (1)

pbryan (83482) | more than 12 years ago | (#2619707)

If I am not mistaken, the term "fair use" also equally applies to the purchaser's use of copyrighted content, and was heavily touted during the videocassette legal challenges in the 80s, which was eventually won, a success for consumers, a thorn in the side of the television networks.

I believe an owner's right to copy purchased content for backup purposes is considered fair use in the legal sense. I believe using your TiVO to record and "time shift" content is considered fair use in the legal sense.

I believe transferring the CD you purchased into MP3s for personal use is considered fair use in the legal sense, and will not expose the purchaser to legal action for doing so.

I'm sure a legal type could shed more light on this subject by giving a precice definition.

Rio 500 (4, Informative)

Bullschmidt (69408) | more than 12 years ago | (#2619612)

Its old, so you probably can't buy it new, but the RIO 500 rocks. It uses SmartMedia, has no copy protection, and came with 64MB built in. The smartmedia cards are now pretty cheap, so its not too bad to buy lots of these tiny cards. It has pretty good battery life (a little less than 10 hours if you are actively - triggering the backlite - using it). It runs on a single AA, is rugged, and light. It has nice sound quality (the earphones that come with it suck though). I recommend one if you can find it.

Re:Rio 500 (1)

jspectre (102549) | more than 12 years ago | (#2619636)

I have to second the vote for the Rio500. I have mine and a few 32/64M cards and 0 complaints. It works just fine, great battery life (I get 15 or so hrs) and 128M is good for over a hour of music. It takes 10-15 minutes to fill up (over USB) which isn't too bad. No moving parts to break, is very small and very light weight. I haven't found a mp3 player yet that has seduced me to replace it (even Apple's iPod).

I bet if you looked around on eBay or such you might find a used one.

Re:Rio 500 (1)

jspectre (102549) | more than 12 years ago | (#2619692)

Just a further note.. a quick scan of eBay lists quite a few 500's for less than $100 easy, most are around $50-60.

CD based....the way to go.... (3, Insightful)

Chanc_Gorkon (94133) | more than 12 years ago | (#2619613)

If your worried about SDMI, then the CD based ones ar the way to go. CD's fit an INCREDIBLE amount of music on it (most fit more then I would need for the six hour trip down to my parents house.......), they are reliable, cheap and best of all, if you decide to buy a regular CD on the road, just pop it in and your jamming. I plan on getting one soon. I know, they are not as sexy and small as the solid state ones, but you can't beat them right now. to get 650 megs of storage on a small mp3 player is impossible as well as expensive unless someone figures out a way to use or build cheaper chips.

Another Gay Ask Slashdot (-1)

egg troll (515396) | more than 12 years ago | (#2619617)

Is there a significant portion of the Internet that cannont use Google? Whats up with all these retarded Ask Slashdot questions. Editors please become ungay and get some real questions.


Thank you.

Jaja, das ist sehr gŁt meine Herre, (-1)

King Africa (262341) | more than 12 years ago | (#2619694)

aber vhen vill you fick mich in zee ass?

Archos Jukebox - USB Hard Drive / MP3 Player (2, Informative)

Jammer@CMH (117977) | more than 12 years ago | (#2619618)

The Archos Jukebox [archos.com] is a combination USB hard drive (6 gig, upgradeable) and MP3 player. It exerts absolutely no control over what you put on the hard drive, and works with any computer with a USB driver. (I don't know what the included "MusicMatch" software is for, I never installed it.)

It is a little bulky for carying around, but is great for use in the car and office.

Copying from portable to PC? (2, Insightful)

MrSpock (5029) | more than 12 years ago | (#2619619)

I've never understood any good scenarios for copying from a portable player to a PC. It seems to me that if you managed to put a song which you own on the portable in the first place, then you have a copy _already_on_ your PC. If you want to move the song from PC to PC, a LAN or even a ZIP disk seems to be far more efficient than using the portable as the transfer mechanism.

Am I missing something obvious?

Re:Copying from portable to PC? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2619656)

I've only used copyback for computer files. I'll bring my Archos to my coworkers house, listen to MP3s on the subway, and have my source code with me ready for download when I get there.
I could also imagine wanting to bring MP3s to the office and store them on the computer there, in which case why carry a zip disk in addition to your MP3 player?

yes, you are (1)

crayz (1056) | more than 12 years ago | (#2619658)

Am I missing something obvious?

The iPod holds 5GB of data, far more than a Zip or even Jaz/Orb disk. Plus you don't need to have that drive on the second machine(just need a FW port).

Also, the two machines are not always on a LAN. And 400Mbps is a fast transfer.

Re:Copying from portable to PC? (1)

asukarno (115834) | more than 12 years ago | (#2619670)

Supposed you going to your friend house, and he or she have some particular songs that you dont have on your PC. However he or she have the same MP3 player as yours. So, transfering to portable isn;t a bad choice then you can save it to your PC later.

I think this is a good scenario, consider if your friends might only use a modem while you want to copy over 10 songs :-)

Re:Copying from portable to PC? (1)

Jammer@CMH (117977) | more than 12 years ago | (#2619674)

I'm at a friend's house. My library (in my Archos [archos.com] ) is in the car, hers in on her PC. We're talking, her music is playing. Something I like and didn't know about comes on. Cool!

I get the Archos from the car, plug it into her computer via USB. Drag & drop file transfer.

You hear the song, you want it then. If it sticks to you, later you buy the album to get more.

Re:Copying from portable to PC? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2619709)

Yes, you are. I have some CDs that I've ripped to my work computer, and some that I've ripped to my home computer. One of reasons I'd like a portable is so that I can get my collections in synch without re-ripping my CDs or burning a bunch of CD-Rs.

The computers in question aren't on a LAN, and only one has a zip drive. Even if they both had one, it would take a whole lot of zip disks to move the music back and forth.

Re:Copying from portable to PC? (1)

mickeyreznor (320351) | more than 12 years ago | (#2619711)

2 assumptions your making:

1 - Everyone has access to a lan or other high-speed connection

2 - Everyone has a zip-disk

I can think of several people who are in groups 1 and 2, and as such using a portable would make sense, assuming they already had one. If they didn't, it would probably be cheaper to get a zip disk drive and some disks.

Re:Copying from portable to PC? (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2619758)

gah, i really should gramaar check these things before sending them off.

who are in groups = who are not in groups

NexII (2, Informative)

twenex (139462) | more than 12 years ago | (#2619620)

Check out the NexII from FrontierLabs [frontierlabs.com] . It is $99 with 0 memory, but takes compactflash cards. They are < $90 for 256MB these days (check out Pricewatch [pricewatch.com] ).


When you get to work, offload the CompactFlash card with a PCMCIA adaptor ($12) to your laptop or a USB adaptor ($25) to your desktop.


Oh, I should mention, the NexII sounds good too, but you want to dump the headphones they ship.

Fair use -- my take (3, Troll)

aclute (94263) | more than 12 years ago | (#2619627)

Let us not forget: Fair-use means that it is not illegal to make a back-up copy, or to timeshift, etc, if you can do it.

Fair-use is not a doctrine that states the owners must make it *easy* to copy, or even possible.

Now the DMCA makes it a little bit sticky inregards to being able to copy stuff for fair-use, but even pre-DMCA, there was no contract between seller and buyer that the seller would make it easy to copy.

have you been asleep this past month? (1)

vecna_99 (78228) | more than 12 years ago | (#2619638)

iPod (2, Informative)

Xibby (232218) | more than 12 years ago | (#2619643)

What about the iPod? I'm not up on it's specs, but plug it into your firewire and it shows up as a hard drive right? (On Mac's anyway ;) And the firmware on the thing is upgradable, so maybe, just maybe, it will suppot ogg sometime in the future. Or somebody will hack ogg support for it.

CD Player (1)

tubs (143128) | more than 12 years ago | (#2619645)

I've got a Goodmans one (came with a carkit too - my car is old and crap) it only cost £50, what maybe $75, although probably cheaper.

Only things are it doesn't do CD/RW discs, makes some "popping" noises now and again, but otherwise pretty much okay.

Build on yourself (1)

vnsnes (301511) | more than 12 years ago | (#2619652)

There are lots of plans around the Web to build any kind of mp3 player you can wish. One of the sites that consolidates links to mp3 projects is here [mp3projects.com] .

Re:Build on yourself (-1)

King Africa (262341) | more than 12 years ago | (#2619662)

Can I build a house on myself?

I travel alot.

Rio is the way to go for now.... (1)

bahtama (252146) | more than 12 years ago | (#2619657)

I bought the Rio a few weeks ago and can't remember what I did before that. I use a tape adapter for the car and it works perfect! I put it in the glove box and then clip the remote control to something near me, or my clothes, and away it goes! You can have it shuffle or play in order. It also reads directories so its nice to be able to organize your music on your pc like that and then just burn directories. I highly recommend it over anything else because of the amount of music you can store.

The AC adapter is nice, but I haven't really used it that much yet. The skip protection is just plain silly, I can swing it around and shake it and it doesn't care.

So, the bottom line in case it isn't obvious is that the Rio is the best solution for now.

What? (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2619659)

Only a criminal would ask such a question. SDMI is for your own good. Only a theif would desire equipment without it. You need to grow up and learn that the DMCA, SDMI, SSSCA, NET Act, CyberCrime Treaty, etc are here for your own good.
Obey them and be a decent citizen.

GOD BLESS AMERICA

If you're considering the Rio Volt, consider this. (2)

aidoneus (74503) | more than 12 years ago | (#2619661)

The AVC Soul [soul.com.hk] is essentially the exact same thing as the Volt, right down to the remote and the flashable firmware (although I have yet to hack the firmware for the Volt so that it works on the Soul, but the Soul's latest version is pretty good as well). The nice thing about the Soul is that it also supports m3u playlists (with the 1.05s firmware), it reads CD-RWs (both regularly burned and packet written) and is generally available for $15-20 less than the Rio Volt. The money you save is more than the cost of shipping in most cases too.


Just my 2 cents.


-Jason

Re:If you're considering the Rio Volt, consider th (2)

PureFiction (10256) | more than 12 years ago | (#2619715)

I have a RIO Volt, and it can play CD-RW's as well.

I would highly reccomend this system. Simply burn firmware upgrades to a CD-RW and the player will upgrade as soon as it sees the file on the CD. Pretty slick.

Audio quality is fine, although I dont thave the Volt-90 or whatever the cheapie model is (perhaps it has the problems)

All in all a great system. You can pack quite a bit of music on a 700M CDR. I will listed for hours, sometimes days on end before it loops back to the beginning.

New Sony Clie' (1)

raist_online (522240) | more than 12 years ago | (#2619668)

I've just got a new Sony PEG-770C and it rocks - if you just use plain old blue memory sticks you can put what you like on them and trasfer up and down no probs (It helps if you have a Vaio with a memory stick slot, of course *8-) - really good battery life too!

I'm not sure about the white 'MagicGate' memory sticks - I think they have built-in protection?

Raist

Cheap, works well... (1)

Coins (3612) | more than 12 years ago | (#2619673)

Jamp3 [compgeeks.com]

Rio 500 (2)

Null_Packet (15946) | more than 12 years ago | (#2619675)

As long as you don't need it to work with XP [google.com] (No Flames Please), then go with the Rio500 [ebay.com] .

They have Windows support (95-2000) that lets you load and erase music on the unit only, while the Linux drivers and apps [freshmeat.net] let you copy music on and off the device. They come with 64 Megs already, and you can add a Smart Media card [ebay.com] for more.

It's an older MP3 player, sure. Capacity is where you'll take the hit, but if you want to use it as you will, and assuming you're a Linux user, the Rio500 should do fine.

MD players (2, Informative)

atom6 (447637) | more than 12 years ago | (#2619679)

Another no-copy-protection alternative is Minidisc player/recorders -- I switched from an MP3 player about a year ago and I've been pretty happy. They have their drawbacks and can be slightly more expensive (mine was about $300), but the discs are much cheaper than memory cards and can hold a lot more music (up to 5 or 6 hours in the most extended format), and the audio quality is at least marginally better.
As far as I know, there is no security technology on the horizon for MD media. And with the USB-based "MD link" that's now included with most players, it's virtually as easy to record things off of a random friend's computer as it would be with an MP3 player.
The only big drawback is that they record in real time (so, for example, 40 minutes of music would take 40 minutes to record.) And recording from an MD onto your computer is a little bit more of a hassle. But other than that, I'd say they're worth checking out.

Rio Volt (2)

EisPick (29965) | more than 12 years ago | (#2619681)

In a way you answered your own question by listing the Rio Volt CD player as an option. If you burn all your MP3s onto CD, this isn't an issue. Of course, if a machine doesn't have a CD burner on it you won't be able pull music off of it.

Before you buy a Volt, make sure you listen to one. I bought the cheapie SP90 version for my car. There is an audible chirp/hiss in the audio output. In the car, it's not a major issue, because the hiss is competing with road noise, wind noise and engine noise. But it's definitely not hi-fi enough for headphones or a home system.

According to a review I saw somewhere (I think it was CNet), the Volt 250 has this same problem, so caveat emptor.

Apple iPod (5, Informative)

Josuah (26407) | more than 12 years ago | (#2619684)

The Apple iPod does not have any "anti-piracy" features built in. Specifically, it states something to the effect of "Piracy is a social issue, not a technological one" on the packaging. You can use it with Windows (via Mediafour's XPod [mediafour.com] ) or Macs, and probably soon with Linux. If you use the iPod as a portable drive on a Mac, you can simply copy files back and forth at will. But if you use iTunes to sync, the MP3 files are invisible. Some information on this is available here [macobserver.com] , and here's a simple utility [www.cooc.de] to access the invisible MP3 files.

Also, the iPod supports a variety of encodings. It should support up to 256Kbps (or is it 320Kbps?), variable bit rate, joint stereo or normal stereo, because that's what iTunes supports. The 1000 songs it advertises is for 160Kbps songs.

When your jogging or working out, go for the RIO (1)

Tenebrious1 (530949) | more than 12 years ago | (#2619686)

CD and HD based MP3 players just aren't up to an hour on a treadmill or two on the pavement. I still carry my ol' Rio 300 which stores about 30 minutes of music and several smartmedia cards to finish the trip. I'll probably upgrade to a Rio 500 when I get around to it, but the 300 still works for me.

you thief! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2619688)

Why would you ever want to copy music back from your player to your desktop unless you were stealing it from someone else's computer? I don't see this sdmi thing being a problem in real world applications...

iPAQ (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2619703)

iPAQ + PCMCIA sleeve + 25G IBM PCMCIA HD* + Cassette adapter = problem solved!

(*Don't remember the url, but some guy with a japanese sounding name has a free CE driver that should work for this)

-josh
josh at alumni dot southern dot NOSPAMedu

Use your head..Get a Casio PZ-5000 instead. (2)

Bowie J. Poag (16898) | more than 12 years ago | (#2619704)



Here's a good reccomendation for you:

I love mine..got a Casio PZ-5000 about a month ago. Its an portable Audio CD + MP3 CD player [mp3shopping.com] , complete with digital shock absorbpion, car casette adapter, headphones, DC to AC converter for plugging into your car's lighter, two batteries and a normal wall-outlet AC adapter for $79.00 ... You can buy them off the rack at CompUSA. That way, you can burn your own Audio CDs, or burn an ISO9660 packed to the brim with MP3s. A remarkably cheap price for such a nice player, basically, an 800MB portable MP3 player for the price. Why anyone would want one of those shitty compact-flash powered MP3 players is beyond me. Then again, if you feel like spending $300 for an MP3 player with less features, be my guest. :)

Cheers,

Homosexual: Dead at Age 25 (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2619708)


I just heard a report that a homosexual was found today dead in his home somewhere. Nobody really cared that he was found dead. Apparently, he has been there for weeks and no body noticed. One of his neighbors was quoted as saying:

"I thought there was a strange smell coming from his house, but I just figured it was one of those candles those homos like so much. I don't really care that he died, maybe that will keep his little dog quiet. Well, I am off to celebrate, now that there is one less faggot in the world."

I am sure that no one (except JonKatz) at slashdot will miss him. As he has contributed nothing but the further spread of AIDS in society.

Re:Homosexual: Dead at Age 25 (-1)

King Africa (262341) | more than 12 years ago | (#2619716)

Was his name Hercules?

Re:Homosexual: Dead at Age 25 (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2619777)

No, I think his name was King Africa

Yepp (2)

jonbrewer (11894) | more than 12 years ago | (#2619712)

I've had no trouble with my Samsung Yepp. AFAIK it needs windows software to transfer files, but it doesn't care a lick about what the files are or where they came from. My LAME encoded VBR files sound fantastic on it. Stuff obtained elsewhere on the Internet is fine too.

Considering it comes with 128MB out of the box, it's a good buy. I advise however ditching the headphones and the remote, and plugging a good pair of headphones directly into the unit. I only wish for a better design and a built-in rechargable battery with charging stand.

Re:Yepp (2)

jonbrewer (11894) | more than 12 years ago | (#2619773)

I should note I was speaking of the "Techno Yepp," as opposed to the CD, Hip-Hop, Mini, or Pendant Yepp.

Nomad Jukebox (2, Interesting)

JK Flip Flop (209163) | more than 12 years ago | (#2619718)

You can copy mp3s back to a system with the latest firmware for the Nomad Jukebox.

Fair use is not a right (3, Insightful)

ryanvm (247662) | more than 12 years ago | (#2619722)

The term "fair use" simply means that you cannot be prosecuted for letting your friend read your book, or copying your CDs to different media and so on. It does not mean that the publishing companies have to make it easy (or even possible) for you to do so.

Basically, "fair use" means you won't get in trouble for a little sharing, but it doesn't mean it'll be easy.

Handspring Visor (1)

Evanrude (21624) | more than 12 years ago | (#2619725)

The Handspring Visor [handspring.com] (any model) and the optional MiniJam MP3 Player [handspring.com] could provide a viable solution. It comes with a 64mb memory card that does not limit which way the music (or any other data) can be transfered.

Rio (2)

guinsu (198732) | more than 12 years ago | (#2619729)

I have the Rio 100, its great, its ugradable. It doesn't do ogg, but maybe it will some day. And its ability to handle subdirectories is better than any other cd based mp3 player I have seen, letting me keep everything really organized on my discs.

Ask Slashdot: (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2619731)

Are there any weaponized viruses that can cause the sudden and catastrophic loss of all muscular control of the sphincter? If it can be delivered to large portions of the population, would we all be forced from the cities, fleeing before a sickening tidal wave of "mud", if you know what I mean and I think you do?

yes (-1)

King Africa (262341) | more than 12 years ago | (#2619778)

It's called CowboyNeal. Like viruses, he is not really alive.

Unfortunately, he isn't able to reproduce (natural selection)so he is rather useless as a virus.

Buy a Soulplayer DMP-01 (1)

Da w00t (1789) | more than 12 years ago | (#2619732)

The soulplayer [soulplayer.com] is a mp3 cd player, and its tiny. it's user upgradable (burn a cd w/ DMP-01.HEX, and it flashes itself). For $145, it's a steal of a buy. I've been very happy with it. The Rio Volt is the same product, with a different skin.

Automotive MP3 Head Units (3, Interesting)

F250SuperDuty (65363) | more than 12 years ago | (#2619735)

In addition to the subject at hand--are there any recomendations for car-based mp3 head units?
The Empeg was quite nice--but expensive. Aiwa makes a unit [aiwa.com] that plays MP3's from
CD-R's, but I've heard horrors about it. Has anyone had experience with an mp3 head unit that
isn't rumoured to suck?

-Kris

SDMI, so what? (1)

JMZero (449047) | more than 12 years ago | (#2619737)

Whether they call it SDMI or WKRP or CBYNL, only a watermarking scheme will keep you from ripping audio from your CD (or from your Kazaa buddy's CD) to the player - and no current watermarking scheme is secure, thus any device currently available should suit your needs.

Nonetheless, I'm going to boycott any CD with any sort of watermark (currently boycotting music is very easy, as very little is produced).

Terrapin Mine (1)

asv108 (141455) | more than 12 years ago | (#2619745)

I'm surprised nobody has mentioned the Terrapin Mine [thinkgeek.com] handheld that is so heavily advertised on slashdot. It holds 10 gigs and runs on linux too.

Ask Slashdot: (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2619748)

Are homosexuals really Gay?

SDMI?! (2)

sulli (195030) | more than 12 years ago | (#2619750)

Isn't that dead as a doornail? Deader than OS/2? Deader than even *BSD?

Seriously, I don't know of any MP3 player that won't play all your ex-Napster or Gnutella/Audiogalaxy/etc. mp3s. My iPod, which I think is fabulous, plays everything I put on it, so long as it's mp3 (sorry no ogg or wma). And I for one am damn sure that I won't run any "up"grade that takes away that ability - and the vendors (except Microsoft) know that too, which is why you don't have anything to worry about.

But back up your tunes to CD-R anyway, in case of system crashes and other stuff - not just SDMI shenanigans.

this is a non-issue, afaik (4, Informative)

MoNsTeR (4403) | more than 12 years ago | (#2619752)

If "SDMI Compliant" means "can't copy from player to PC", then this is a 100% non-issue. Even the original Rio 300 (which I have) doesn't let you do this. Furthermore, I can't really think of a reason you'd *want* to. Why would I want to move only 64MB of mp3's over a slow-ass parallel port connection, when I can download all 6GB of my mp3's from home at 128Kbps? Or just burn some favorites to a CD and bring that to work?

The only way player-to-PC-copy would be really useful is if you had a hard-drive player, and I believe some of them (Archos Jukebox?) can do that.

OTOH, if "SDMI Compliant" means something else, then it might be a bigger problem. But if the thing plays standard MP3's, I don't see how there's much to worry about, as there's no way to "trust" an mp3, and thus no way to restrict the player, IF in fact it plays standard files.

Creative Nomand + SmartMedia Card Reader (2, Interesting)

Sylistron (122473) | more than 12 years ago | (#2619753)

I have a usb card reader that allows a SmartMedia to be used as a file system. I copy the files onto that card and slide the card into the nomad. I use the card reader for my camera as well. It's a great solution.

Neo 25 / Genica Roopaq / Neo Jukebox (1)

docstrange (161931) | more than 12 years ago | (#2619754)

I have a Genica roopaq [genica.com] (originally neo 25)with a 20 gig hard drive plugged into the input on my cd player and it works great. I used a cell phone clip on the back, and mounted it on the dashboard. If you want the newer relative to the neo25/roopaq line you can go with the neo jukebox [ssiamerica.com] Which is basically a better version of the roopaq / neo 25. The best part is that under 2000 and XP i didn't even need to load drivers. I plugged it into the usb port and it recognized the scanlogic usb2ide controller and mounted it as an external usb hard drive. To copy songs, just drag and drop. With the latest scanlogic firmware i've read linux success stories for using this device with linux as well. (works with macos too, but if you have a mac, you probably have a ipod) The only complaint I have is that it took a little more than 2 hours to copy my 20 gigs of mp3s over usb.

My Favorite Recipe (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2619765)

Order grits! [goatse.cx]

^^^ HOT GRITS ^^^
Grits

3 cups water
1 1/2 cups grits -- white (not instant)
1 tablespoon salt

Heat the water to boiling in a large saucepan over medium heat. Pour in the grits very gradually, stirring the whole time to prevent lumps. Add the salt, reduce the heat to low (one or two bubbles should rise to the top at a time), and cook, stirring constantly, until tender, about 10 minutes. Grits should be as thick as oatmeal, not runny or stiff. If the grits get too thick toward the end of the cooking time, stir in a little hot water. Pour hot, down your pants!

Serving Ideas : Pour with a pat of butter or some brown gravy. It gives it twang!

2 players (1)

mikescuba (539401) | more than 12 years ago | (#2619767)

First is this one http://www.genica.com/MP3products/Mp3-roopaq.htm it's generic & uses a laptop HDD so it's gonna eat batteries. But since it says it can be used as a USB HDD I don't belive there'd be any SDMI problems. Second is the cheap one, though it sounds fine. I've got one & it's kinda clunky but for $35 & MMC memory who cares. BTW it says it only accepts sandisk MMC cards & they mean it. http://www.jamonline.com/products/jamp3_specs.asp Enjoy, also I got mine form www.compgeeks.com

Emmerson Research (1)

re-Verse (121709) | more than 12 years ago | (#2619770)

I have last years model of the Emmerson Research MP3/CD player.

As far as i know, there is no protection on it whatseover.

Get the Rio Volt.... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2619779)

I've got the Rio Volt. Got it back when it was new. Initially it was great. No worries about where the MP3's came from or anything, just encode, burn and listen. I've been using a VBR scheme from the beginning for all my personal mp3's and never had an issue with timing or playback.

The software upgrades have improved things considerably in usability and have introduced no downsides.

One of the best things about this player, is it's excessively long skip protection. 120 seconds claimed. The way it does this is it spins down the CD during playback. It has a large enough buffer to read in part of or the entire song. Once it has the data in RAM, the CD spins down. Now there is nothing to skip. It spins back up for the next bit of data and then spins down again. Works seemlessly. It'd be cool to see an in car CD player use this. The CD spin down also translates into very long battery lifes.

The use of CD media means I can fit as much as 12 CDs on one CD of mp3s.

Wonderful player.
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