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Kazaa to be shut down?

chrisd posted more than 12 years ago | from the it-aint-piracy-unless-you-have-an-eyepatch dept.

News 419

darkpriest writes "According to this article on The Register, the file sharing software KazaA has been ordered to cease copyright infringment. They have two weeks to comply with the Judges ruling or face a penalty of $40,000 a day." CD: We've gotten a number of submissions about this, I had no idea Kazaa was this popular (must be all those a's in their name). I bet anyday that the RIAA will sue cisco for making routers that could be used to infringe.

cancel ×

419 comments

this is horrible (-1)

Anonymous Pancake (458864) | more than 12 years ago | (#2634965)

kazaa is my only source for enterprise divx's.. since I don't get UPN.

NOOO!!!!

Re:this is horrible (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2635008)

download morpheus it's the exact same thing (When you hold your pointer over the icon in the tray right after it shows up while the system's booting it says Kazaa) www.musiccity.com

But.... (-1)

Frank White (515786) | more than 12 years ago | (#2635053)

If this is a consular ship, then where is the ambassador?!

Re:this is horrible (-1)

Anonymous Pancake (458864) | more than 12 years ago | (#2635068)

yeah but it's possible the entire network might go down, rendering both kazaa and morpheus unusable

Re:this is horrible (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2635023)

d'oh!!!

time to find a long distance friend with a VCR and UPN...

i suggest you offer to supply the tapes...

this is/can be referred to as networking...

Re:this is horrible (-1)

count_sporkula (446625) | more than 12 years ago | (#2635242)

yeah, but the ping times would be terrible ...

Perhaps a NINJA should be consulted? (-1, Offtopic)

Pancake-Eatin' Ninja (538332) | more than 12 years ago | (#2634974)



Three days and four nights travel from my father's dojo, I found an IHOP, and I was pleased to discover that they served pancakes. I told the staff at IHOP, "Yes, I am a Ninja. But I also enjoy pancakes. Please, do not hate me for who I am."

I enjoyed the Vermont Maple syrup.


Perhaps KaZaa should seek the help of a ninja. Please moderate this up, and you will recieve pancakes.

Yes.

MOD PARENT UP! (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2635020)

Not only insightful, but inspiring!

I'm going to have a pancake right now!

Finally, something funny on slashshit for a change (-1)

Clint Trollwood (528787) | more than 12 years ago | (#2635079)

rou're rery r33t!

Re:Perhaps a NINJA should be consulted? (-1)

Anonymous Pancake (458864) | more than 12 years ago | (#2635085)

I hold the rights to all pancake use on this site

Oh shit (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2634976)

Is this going to affect the whole FastTrack network or is Kazaa just shutting down?

Popularity (5, Interesting)

spectral (158121) | more than 12 years ago | (#2634978)

Actually, according to download.com [download.com] , kazaa and morpheus (which are the same program/network, really..) are the top two most downloaded programs.. Which makes me wonder if it's just Kazaa that was ordered to cease and desist, or does musiccity have to comply also? It's the same p2p network, with decentralized servers (I believe? I don't know all that much about their network), unlike napster's centrally controlled server farms.

Re:Popularity (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2635051)

It's very interesting... on how they can exactly 'shut down' kazaa because I know that not only are the servers decentralized... the info is encrpyted too, so... the only way they can stop me from using kazaa is by forcing me to d/l an update for my client (I think) which I will not do, thus allowing the kazaa network to continue until the RIAA comes into my house (and faces Reason)...

Re:Popularity (5, Informative)

nsample (261457) | more than 12 years ago | (#2635078)

We did a study in the P2P group at Stanford two months ago... with pretty interesting results. Kazaa (as monitored through a Morpheus client gateway) consistently topped out at over 50 terabytes of data and peeked at just over 1.1 million active clients. It's becoming truly ubiquitous, and it's growth rates (in terms of both users and size) indicate that they will be the unquestionable king of P2P in short order.

It's pretty clear that it's a big part of the reason they're being targetted by the BSA, RIAA, etc. currently... I can only hope that University research into these things doesn't fuel the corporate interests backing the anti-P2P movement.

Re:Popularity (1)

trubbles (537741) | more than 12 years ago | (#2635191)

Kazaa and Morpheus are the same in that they are both front-ends for the FastTrack network. Totally different different companies (like the Netherlands and Tennessee different:) with differrent jurisdictions. Therefore, the Dutch court's order has no legal effect on Morpheus.

Not decentralized? (1)

gazuga (128955) | more than 12 years ago | (#2634983)

I though KazAa was decentralized like Gnutella...

Re:Not decentralized? (3, Insightful)

DarkZero (516460) | more than 12 years ago | (#2635012)

It's mostly decentralized (I believe there are some moderately large servers hosted by the program's creators that handle a lot of traffic), but they're identifiable. As long as there's someone for the RIAA to tell, "Stop making new versions of this program, and try to get rid of what's already there or you'll go to jail/be fined into poverty!", these services can be stopped. What we really need is for someone to make a P2P program anonymously and then get it to download.com or something without EVER letting their name be known. When that happens (coupled with a decentralized network, of course), we'll have a truly immortal form of P2P.

Re:Not decentralized? (1)

Raster Burn (213891) | more than 12 years ago | (#2635041)

Well, it depends if they shutdown FastTrack or not. Morpheus uses the same network as KaZaa. I think KaZaa is making money off of this P2P network, so they're a target for the RIAA. So if they are the target, does FastTrack stay immune?

BTW... giFT [slashdot.org] is an open FastTrack client. Last I checked it was blocked out somehow.

yeh, apparently these apps arn't server dependent (3, Informative)

DABANSHEE (154661) | more than 12 years ago | (#2635114)

Fast-track (Kazar, Morpheus, Grokster) apparently use some sort of P2P 'supernode' setup, where clients on computers with large bandwidth (like on-campus student networks) act as 'supernode', ie they act as servers, transparently to the user/s.

Also Xolox uses the Gnutella network, so each client behaves like a transparent server.

Because of that, you log on right now & even though Xolox says that they have shutdown because of the legal situation, the app still searches/downloads/uploads files perfectly well via the Gnutella network.

So as far as my take on this is concerned, all these law suites can do is stop new revisions of these apps - they can't stop people using these apps even if the licensies/distributers of those apps shutdown.

Re:Not decentralized? (1)

didyaseethat (539691) | more than 12 years ago | (#2635119)

All of the fast track based companies were named. And no, they are not decentralized. A couple of months ago they changed the network to require registration and authentication with the kazaa servers. (this really messed up the gift [sourceforge.net] guys ). That was just befor they entered into licencing talks with the company(s) they are beng seued by. Only the blind didn't see the kazaa sellout comming. They obviously took notes on the whole napster fiasco. Make the licensing deal before they shut you down. That way you an sneak up on your customers with a membership fee.

Re:Not decentralized? (2, Informative)

jx100 (453615) | more than 12 years ago | (#2635127)

It used to be largely decentralized, but in an attempt(and a sucesful one at that) to block out giFT an open source client to the KaZaA/MusicCity network, they put in some central servers to identify clients more thoroughly. Basically, it does give them a bit more liablity(since now the network will not work without them), and it keeps other(non-"them") clients out.

Lawyer needed... (1)

NecroPuppy (222648) | more than 12 years ago | (#2634986)

To explain why the RIAA can file suit against a Dutch filesharing system...

I mean, that second 'A' stands America, so what's their basis here?

Or is this the same kind of thing that got Dmitry?

Re:Lawyer needed... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2635009)

This is just a rumor, but I've heard that other countries have copyright laws too. If you had read the article, you may even have noticed it was a Dutch court that ordered the shutdown.

Re:Lawyer needed... (1)

Kierthos (225954) | more than 12 years ago | (#2635244)

And if you read the post you're responding to, you'd notice that NecroPuppy asked how the RIAA was able to file suit. Heads up here kids. Jurisdiction works _both_ ways. Dmitry is in the slammer because the company that produced his program allegedly violated U.S. copyright laws. However, if Adobe had a corporate presence in Russia, they would also be in legal troubles because, as it stands right now, their system violates Russian law by not allowing the ability to make backup copies.

Bottom line is, what presence does the RIAA have in the Netherlands?

Kierthos

Re:Lawyer needed... (0)

Segod (463725) | more than 12 years ago | (#2635062)

Music sharing system KaZaA has been given two weeks by a Dutch court to cease infringing recording artists' copyrights.

IANAL but its fairly obvious that a Dutch court would have the proper authority.

People should start reading articles before posting their comments because the summaries aren't that clear most of the time.

RTFA (0, Troll)

Bonker (243350) | more than 12 years ago | (#2635112)

This is the decision of a Dutch court. Now, whether or not they're being paid off by RIAA interests is another matter entirely.

Corrupt courts? I must be kidding, right? If only...

Morpheus? (1)

quinto2000 (211211) | more than 12 years ago | (#2634989)

Would this also apply to Morpheus? IIRC, they use the same network.

Re:Morpheus? (1)

prismatic (301711) | more than 12 years ago | (#2635037)

yes, it seems to apply to morpheus. here's a link to another article w/ more information: http://jesusgeeks.net/article.pl?sid=01/11/30/0313 241&mode=thread&threshold= [jesusgeeks.net]

a quick summary: "The Register reports that a Dutch court is giving the FastTrack network 2 weeks to shut down. This is the network that Kazaa, Morpheus, Grokster, and some others"

but its P2P, so shuting it down won't shut it down (1)

DABANSHEE (154661) | more than 12 years ago | (#2635135)

its not server dependent.

Apparent those fastrak apps (Kazar, Grokster, Morpheus) transparently setup 'supernodes' on the client computers that have large bandwith & storage (like on-campus student networks). So the Apps should still work even if all the companies associated with Fast-track shutdown.

Look at Xolox, a Napster like Gnutella client. You open the app & it tells you that Xolox has for legal reasons shutdown, but you can still search/download/upload just as well as ever.

I assume the same thing will happen with those Fastrack apps.

So it seems all that will happen if 'fastrack' is shutdown is that new revisions of Morpheus, Kazar & Grokster won't be avaliable.

Damn... (1)

mr. phantastik (202943) | more than 12 years ago | (#2634990)

Kazaa was the only client that seemed to work and work well. And access to 400 TerraBytes of data? So effing greating it's not even funny.

What if they were to suddenly go opensource? Would that stop the RIAA's evil powers?

Re:Damn... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2635181)

No. Why on earth would it?

Until we get universal television stations... (5, Insightful)

bonoboy (98001) | more than 12 years ago | (#2634993)


This will just keep happening.



Ok, maybe people will always want something for free, but the Internet file-sharing phenomenon is the single best argument for having simultaneous worldwide release of as many products as possible.



Now, to you North Americans, this isn't such a big issue, and you've probably never given it much thought. But to a native New Zealander and resident Australian like myself, who knows the pain of waiting a year or two to see episodes of Buffy (etc, etc, etc) that you could easily download for free, it is of paramount importance!



And another thing: a buddy of mine is a technical director on LOTR, and it's supposed to be a simultaneous worldwide release on December 19th. How is it then, that in Austalia, it's being released on December 26th? Was he wrong, or is the Australian Motion Picture League of Bastards screwing us again??

Re:Until we get universal television stations... (1)

Accelerated Joe (17680) | more than 12 years ago | (#2635111)

Universal TV stations? Paramount Importance? New Zealand? Do you mean UPN? I'm not sure this is the cure-all you seek! :-)

Re:Until we get universal television stations... (1)

fishmonkey (301785) | more than 12 years ago | (#2635134)

in Aus big movies are always on boxing day, he was right about the worldwide release - Australia just lucked out :/

Re:Until we get universal television stations... (5, Funny)

Sloppy (14984) | more than 12 years ago | (#2635212)

And another thing: a buddy of mine is a technical director on LOTR, and it's supposed to be a simultaneous worldwide release on December 19th. How is it then, that in Austalia, it's being released on December 26th?

That sucks! By the time you get to see it on the 26th, you'll have been exposed to a week's worth of spoilers from the internet, so you'll already know that Sauron Did It.

eyepatch department? (5, Insightful)

Have Blue (616) | more than 12 years ago | (#2634998)

Sorry, chrisd, it is piracy unless you own the originals.

Re:eyepatch department? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2635013)

Original what? I use Kazaa to trade porn.

Not according to my dictionary. (5, Funny)

Error27 (100234) | more than 12 years ago | (#2635052)

From THE DEVIL'S DICTIONARY ((C)1911 Released April 15 1993) [devils]:

PIRACY, n. Commerce without its folly-swaddles, just as God made it.

Re:eyepatch department? (1)

cpt kangarooski (3773) | more than 12 years ago | (#2635057)

Well, I think perhaps it is more accurate to say that it is piracy unless you have the blessing of the author.

However, just because one is a pirate, that _doesn't_ necessarily mean that one is either a) breaking the law, or b) acting immorally.*

There were, IIRC, publishers known as pirates prior to the existance of copyright, when their behavior was perfectly legal, and incidentally when there were real 'arr matey' types of pirates roaming around.

It's a bit of a slur, but a wholly seperate issue from copyrights or copyright infringements.

*Your law and morals may vary, see dealer for details.

Re:eyepatch department? (5, Insightful)

Accelerated Joe (17680) | more than 12 years ago | (#2635095)

Sorry, chrisd, it is piracy unless you own the originals.

In this one specific area, I definitely agree with Richard Stallman. Piracy is a marketing word, with many connotations. I wish the community would use terms more like "unauthorized copying" or "illegal copies". Even plagiarism sounds better than piracy, semantically. The english language can in its current form duplicate many of the worst features of doublespeak.

Re:eyepatch department? (2, Informative)

mlc (16290) | more than 12 years ago | (#2635250)

Even plagiarism sounds better than piracy, semantically.

Plagarism is totally different than "piracy". Plagarism is when you pass off someone else's work as your own. It is possible, then, to commit plagarism (which is not, AFAIK, illegal, at least in general) on a Free work, if you claim that, e.g., you wrote Emacs. This doesn't take away from the fact that you are entirely within your rights to distribute Emacs. However, it is illegal to distribute copies of MS Word, even if you acknowledge that MS wrote it.

Re:eyepatch department? (2, Insightful)

WildBeast (189336) | more than 12 years ago | (#2635204)

Find them a website which allows them to purchase music and download them instantly online in MP3 or WMA format and I'm sure many will stop the piracy.

Unfortunately, you won't be able to, the RIAA doesn't want to give us that much convenience.

Time to move on... (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2635000)

Let's see - the RIAA isn't endearing too many consumers in the US by suing everyone, so the plan is to go to other countries and start suing them too?

One has to wonder just what the ratio of RIAA lawyer bills + lobbyist *ahem* fees + the cost of bad press + cost of lost sales over this is as compared to how much they claim to have lost...

I for one will simply keep moving to a new service when they pop up. Failing that, there's always *some* news group, IRC, or whatever else we can concoct.... The more they try to filter, the more I can hide and transfer...

Just say no to the RIAA!

more info... (4, Informative)

thanq (321486) | more than 12 years ago | (#2635002)

There is a little bit more information about it on cnet:

http://news.cnet.com/news/0-1005-200-8022666.html? tag=mn_hd [cnet.com]

although it does not contain too many facts beyond the actual case and the judgement.

Distributors aren't responsible for content, no?? (3, Interesting)

Djere (171241) | more than 12 years ago | (#2635003)

I seem to recall the music industry railing pretty hard against being held responsible for artists' content. They just distribute content, they're not responsible for filtering it to make sure nothing bad is in there.

Of course, the difference is that music is protected speech, but from a logical standpoint, it's a pretty ... unusual. Of course, thinking that our laws should have some kind of logic to them is a sure path to madness.

-djere
"Where subtlety fails us, we must simply resort to cream pies."

Re:Distributors aren't responsible for content, no (1)

Djere (171241) | more than 12 years ago | (#2635014)

I seem to recall the music industry railing pretty hard against being held responsible for artists' content. They just distribute content, they're not responsible for filtering it to make sure nothing bad is in there.

Of course, the difference is that music is protected speech, but from a logical standpoint, it's a pretty ... unusual. Of course, thinking that our laws should have some kind of logic to them is a sure path to madness.

-djere
"Where subtlety fails us, we must simply resort to cream pies."

Xolox also down (2, Redundant)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2635017)

Xolox was probably my favorite, and now it has this message upon startup:

Dear XoloX-user,
Taking into account the latest law suits against p2p clients based on Fasttrack-technology (such as Kazaa), we
have decided to discontinue XoloX. As of the 1st of december, XoloX will be shut down and removed from
distribution sites. We hope everybody has enjoyed XoloX as long as it has been around and we want to use this
opportunity to thank everybody who made a contribution to its development. These last few days will give you
some time to finish your downloads and we advise you not to start new transfers. If you want to migrate to
another p2p client we advise you to visit the Zeropaid website (www.zeropaid.com) for orientation.
Thanks again and goodbye!
--Team XoloX--
Comments or suggestions? Please use info@xolox.nl

what about morpheus (0, Redundant)

vikool (523319) | more than 12 years ago | (#2635021)

what about morpheus..how is it that only kazaa gets affected...dont they connect to the same server???

vikas

I't s a Dutch court making the order.. (5, Informative)

Bitsy Boffin (110334) | more than 12 years ago | (#2635022)

For those who didn't read the artikle, it's a Dutch court who ordered the Dutch company to cease & desist.

More to the point, Kazaa (the file sharing system) and FastTrack (the network (and libraries for accessing it)) are one and the same, so this should also affect Morpehus and Grokster (not to mention the buggy linux Kazaa client) !

This is bad bad news. Quick to the Kazaa before it goes away !

Re:I't s a Dutch court making the order.. (1)

philippe_carlo (189822) | more than 12 years ago | (#2635245)

True but, like the Dutch article says: The Kazaa network (not talking about the filtering server) does not rely on a central server for sharing files. This makes that even just shutting down Kazaa will be hard. So don't worry too much ... After all, if they shut down Kazaa tomorrow, there will be three others yesterday.

from the RIAA... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2635027)

"I bet anyday that the RIAA will sue cisco for making routers that could be used to infringe."
hey, now that's not a bad idea...

Decentralized... (1)

TheOnlyCoolTim (264997) | more than 12 years ago | (#2635030)

I believe Morpheus/Kazaa is a decentralized network. I could never find much information except hype on their tech, but I believe that if the client detects that you have good bandwidth and a decent computer, it will use your computer to process search requests.

There should be some central server that finds you nearby clients to connect too, but that could probably be replaced with unofficial underground ones. It would actually get better since if they shut down the official Morpheus servers there will be no more ads popping up. (Not like they can keep their ads going - anyone who uses Morpheus should be familiar with the message boxes it constantly pops up about not being able to connect to the ads server)

I wonder if it is just Kazaa or if it is to be Morpheus too. They are connected, when i do a search in Morpheus I come up with results like userfoo@MusicCity, userbar@Kazaa, and userbaz@???.

Tim

Cisco is too big for the bully (3, Insightful)

CaptainCarrot (84625) | more than 12 years ago | (#2635033)

From chrisd: I bet anyday that the RIAA will sue cisco for making routers that could be used to infringe.

The RIAA is very careful to only pick on groups that can't afford better lawyers than they can. I wish they would sue; Cisco might well succeed in creating some sort of binding precedent that would put a stop to all this nonsense. The RIAA will never do that, of course...

Re:Cisco is too big for the bully (3, Insightful)

NearlyHeadless (110901) | more than 12 years ago | (#2635151)


From chrisd: I bet anyday that the RIAA will sue cisco for making routers that could be used to infringe.


The RIAA is very careful to only pick on groups that can't afford better lawyers than they can. I wish they would sue; Cisco might well succeed in creating some sort of binding precedent that would put a stop to all this nonsense. The RIAA will never do that, of course...


What crap! The law makes the distinction all the time between things whose main use is illegal and things that incidentally can be used for breaking the law. Laws against selling burglary tools have not been used to prosecute Ace Hardware.


All the cases Slashdot has covered--DeCSS, Napster, Sklyarov, KazaA, the one in Korea--are programs designed primarily to enable mass copyright infringement, even though they also have non-infringing uses. Get over this straw man argument that next they'll be coming after Cisco and FTP. It's nonsense.

Re:Cisco is too big for the bully (4, Interesting)

Sarcasmooo! (267601) | more than 12 years ago | (#2635219)

Explain to me what the difference is. You can use search engines to find copyrighted work to download from FTP's and websites. The only difference I see is that P2P programs are designed to funnel those people who want to share media and information on the internet into one place. Maybe you're just trolling, because it's rediculous to suggest that any of these programs were designed for copyright infringement. None of them come with programs for cracking copy-protections, or links to warez and cracking sites. Many could have that information automatically pop-up on a browser in the program, and they don't. What's nonsense is the way that programs like these, that have very substantial, legit uses, are being shutdown as an excuse for fighting 'pirates'. The end result is just to give the industry control of online sharing of media. Think about it; since you apparently haven't done enough of that. Any P2P program that pops up is going to immediately have users who share the mainstream popular media that the industry claims to be protecting. There are 500,000 people who have the latest Britney Spears album on mp3. No one who ever used Napster or Kazaa needed it to find music and video owned by the RIAA/MPAA. What those popular programs provided, was so much goddamn quantity that you could spend the whole day listening to garage bands and obscure music you heard in a commercial when you were 5 years old. Without these programs, artists who try to use the internet to spread their work become victims of an 'anti-piracy' war, and it's not a coincidence. Because now, P2P programs will stay small and obscure (grow and get sued), and we return to the pre-internet status-quo where you either do business with the RIAA or you don't do business.

Re:Cisco is too big for the bully (5, Informative)

CaptainCarrot (84625) | more than 12 years ago | (#2635254)

You're ignorant.

DeCSS? Explicitly developed to enable playing DVDs on Open Source computers with DVD drives. It's hardly practical to share full-length movies over networks or even to store them locally on hard drives -- although you should note that the latter use is not infringing. I for one can't think of a single use for DeCSS that's infringing under the traditional doctrine of fair use, given the current practical technological limitations. It may well be in violation of the DMCA, but that's a seriously broken law that undermines rights that consumers of intellectual property have enjoyed for a very long time. The DMCA isn't Norweigian law, anyway.

Skylarov? His product is entirely legal in the country where he wrote it. In fact, without his company's product it's Adobe's software that's illegal. It's against the law to erect technological barriers to fair use in Russia, but that's what Adobe's so-called encryption does. It's his company that ought to have been held accountable for marketing the product in the US where it was illegal; Skylarov himself as an employee had nothing to do with that. If he's guilty of anything, it's of demonstrating that Adobe's claims about the security of their encryption scheme was a total crock. Embarrassing corporations isn't illegal -- yet.

Peer-to-peer networks? All of them run on top of the Internet, which, in the event you haven't noticed, is one vast peer-to-peer network designed for freely sharing information. None of the other indexing schemes for available information, such as Gopher or even some web pages, are not fundamentally different from networks like Gnutella.

Shut the fuck up (-1)

ArchieBunker (132337) | more than 12 years ago | (#2635185)

Look, don't even try to kid yourself that people trade their own original non copyrighted material on Morpheus. 99% of the kids using it are there to download the latest Staind single and burn it to cd. Cisco routers can be used for any traffic, what was Morpheus written for?

A good example is a company making a master key that opens any car, its legal of course. So what will the majority of people use this master key for? Surely not their own car.

You linux freaks won't even admit it was created for the sole reason of trading mp3s, warez, and movies. Ask school kids how many mp3 sourced cds they burned so far. One of mmy friends has stopped buying cds altogether because an hour of downloading and 50 cents for a blank and you have basically the original.

Re:Cisco is too big for the bully (2)

serutan (259622) | more than 12 years ago | (#2635248)

Interesting observation. Why wait for the RIAA to sue a deep-pockets company like Cisco? I like the idea of suing the RIAA better. How about a class-action suit by musicians and music buyers against the RIAA companies for usury and monopolistic business practices? I would join the class on that one.

there are some 'S's to go with your 'A' (2, Funny)

doug13 (25087) | more than 12 years ago | (#2635034)

"...revealed when a Recording Industry Ass. of America internal memo..."

Thats 'ass' in print folks....its Official!

Re:there are some 'S's to go with your 'A' (1)

deaddrunk (443038) | more than 12 years ago | (#2635132)

The Reg has been calling them that for quite a while now, and I'm surprised that their unauthorised use of the asses of Jack Valenti and Hilary Rosen hasn't landed them in court yet.

Yawn. (4, Informative)

drix (4602) | more than 12 years ago | (#2635035)

Now seems like an opportune time to remind everybody that the FastTrack protocol was reverse-engineered some months ago by these guys [sourceforge.net] (definitely a highly impressive RE feat, IMHO). gIFT is a fully functional, open source FastTrack implementation which happily coexisted with Kazaa and Morpheus until FastTrack decided to break it by further obfuscating their protocol. Which is a shame, because in doing so they make the FastTrack protocol reliant on centrally run servers to obtain a cryptographic key... this is all covered in detail on the gIFT website. Long story short, Kazaa can go down in flames for all I care, even though I use it almost every day. gIFT is in the public domain and here to stay. It's not ever going to be taken away from us. It works like a charm. It's decentralized. And it's just waiting to load up on content so it can gain that critical mass of users needed for widespread acceptance. Kind of a chicken or the egg problem, I suppose. So my advice to everyone is to start running gIFT and develop OpenFT network. This sounds like bluster but it's true for the time being: gIFT is the be-all-end-all of P2P filesharing.

Re:Yawn. (1)

ecki (115356) | more than 12 years ago | (#2635080)

Since the gIFT site is currently slashdotted, I can't verify this, but I thought that gIFT does not implement the Kazaa supernodes which basically help searches by pooling searches and search results on high bandwidth nodes.

Re:Yawn. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2635145)

You're right; the paren't post doesn't know what he's talking about.

Re:Yawn. (1)

AbsoluteRelativity (524386) | more than 12 years ago | (#2635124)

I don't think its functional anymore. At least on the download page it says its not functional anymore. Also I noticed in their screenshot page it looks like they are working on an applet, I think it would be nice to have a full out Java application (like Phex [sf.net] ) personly, but it seems they are focusing more so on a c server, at least the only source code I found was in c, and the java applet does not appear to be in 0.9.7. So it doesnt look like its there yet. If I am mistaken let me know.

Re:Yawn. (1)

AbsoluteRelativity (524386) | more than 12 years ago | (#2635136)

Ah okay, I found gift-java trodging through the news, but its only a front end, I was hoping it would be a full out application, oh well.

http://sourceforge.net/projects/gift-java/

Re:Yawn. (1)

alphaseven (540122) | more than 12 years ago | (#2635139)

Great, I went to their page, the newest version is 0.9.7, and i read:

NOTE: giFT version 0.9.7 and ealier do NOT work.

Not only that, could they give some clue to what platforms it's supposed to compile on, or has compiled on, or what. I check the readme, this is great:

To try out the giFT daemon and the CGI client, simply install the CGI script in your cgi-bin directory on your web server.

Like who isn't running a web server. I'll stick with freenet.

FYI: They are NOT decentralized (2, Redundant)

BinaryAlchemy (521587) | more than 12 years ago | (#2635042)

They were when they started (Morpheous and Kazaa both use the FastTrack network). But they moved to a system where you must log on to a central server before you can join the network. Take a look at the giFT project for more info (they were an open source client before the network closed).

giFT Project [slashdot.org]

They are also working on a new version of the network they call OpenFT.

Not decentralized... (3, Interesting)

StormySky (528079) | more than 12 years ago | (#2635044)

I don't think any of the MusicCity protocol clients are decentralized. Or are our peers serving up those ADs? There was file sharing prior to Napster and friends --- anyone remember the days of searching Audiogalaxy for ftp sites, or, IRC? The problem with all the current crop of 'solutions' out there are that they're huge targets (Morpheus/Kazaa), don't work very well (gnutella), are good ideas but fail to work even a quarter of the time (Freenet) or are absolute utter crap (Mojonation). Any system designed specifically for file sharing will *have* to be a target to the idiots who don't comprehend that the genie's out of the bag. Notice that they're not tackling file trading on IRC, or, heck, even usenet as hard? I wonder what's going to happen when there's a nice convenient client that does chat (100% legit use), IMs (100% legit use) AND allows one to search for files of any type, without advertising and central servers? Certainly something I'd love to code if I could figure out, and something that would be near impossible to 'take down'. (Yes, the devil is in the details, but it is feasible, if you think about it.) Surely at some point there will be a p2p client not operated by any company (read: target), and even the RIAA and friends would eventually have to admit the futility of shutting down millions of nodes... especially when you can't identify easily which people are just chatting and which are actually trading files.

Re:Not decentralized... (2, Interesting)

Smthng (71777) | more than 12 years ago | (#2635166)

>>nice convenient client that does chat (100% legit use), IMs (100% legit use) AND allows one to search for files of any type, without advertising and central servers

Interesting that you should mention this specific list, because every single one of these functions can be coded into an irc client/script !!

For best results this client would have to rely on irc servers have a built in file server and have a carefully designed gui as well as hopefully running on many platforms.

Maybe it's time to reinvent mIRC and X-chat using a common tooolkit (qt?) and dumbed down simplified gui. Is there any reason why this wouldn't work ?

Re:Not decentralized... (2)

bonzoesc (155812) | more than 12 years ago | (#2635215)

It's already been done - take a look at Direct Connect at www.neo-modus.com . Sure, it's only for Windows, but it's basically a fancy irc client that connects to a fancy irc server.

Centralized Servers == Bad (5, Informative)

E1ven (50485) | more than 12 years ago | (#2635046)

The hard part about this is that the FT stack was designed to be distributed, like Gnutella.
There is not central server, like there was with Napster.

It's all peer->peer->Superpeer, where the SuperClient helps to route things, solving the scaling problems of Gnutella.

So there isn't a Server to shut down.
A least, there never USED to be.

When GiFT came out, Kazaa and Morpheus switched to authorizing people through a centralized sever, before accessing the peer->peer network.

Coincidentally, shortly after they implemented this filter, they were sued.

Let's look who's been sued over this.
Napster, Imesh, Kazaa post-auth server
Who hasn't been sued
Bearshare, Limewire, Kazaa pre-auth server, GiFT, Freenet, WinMX

It seems that the RIAA knows that they don't have a chance of shutting down a network that doesn't use a central server, so they aren't trying.

You may also have a stronger legal case that way. In the napster hearings, one of the key points was that napsters servers let it happen. Napster had control.

I think that what we're learning from this is if you never touch the packets yourself, just release the client and hope for the best, you're in much safer waters.

Colin

Re:Centralized Servers == Bad (2, Informative)

nsample (261457) | more than 12 years ago | (#2635109)

Yes, in the Napster case "control" of the network was a critical issue. Specifically, though, it's a two-tiered test in order to have "vicarious liability" like the courts found Napster did... e.g., who is liable for what in terms of a P2P network's content. Remember, you need two things: the ability to supervise, and the making of profit.


Vicarious liability arises when the defendant "has the right and ability to supervise the infringing activity and also has a direct financial interest in such activities." Napster, 239 F.3d at 1022.


Also, there's still the good competitive analysis of kazaa, etc. from the RIAA (where we also find the codification of liability):


http://www.dotcomscoop.com/riaamemo.html [dotcomscoop.com]

Downloads: 32,685,599 (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2635047)

All i can say is on download. com it says this
"Downloads: 32,685,599" Well i guess it is pretty popular huh slashdot???

WinMX (5, Informative)

DarkZero (516460) | more than 12 years ago | (#2635048)

For anyone that's unfortunately bound to Windows and is looking for a new file sharing service to jump to, I'd recommend WinMX [winmx.com] . It's a great P2P program that has always had whatever I'm looking for (and what I look for is pretty damn obscure, i.e. Asian pop and such), yet has still remained firmly under the radars of the RIAA and MPAA. Of course, at the rate the RIAA is going, every currently existing P2P program will be gone eventually (though they will be replaced with new ones in the mean time), but I estimate that you'll get at least six or ten months of use, and possibly much more, out of this one.

And by the way, for those that are modding this... I do not work for WinMX in any capacity, nor do I have any financial or personal stake in it. I'm just trying to help the people that looked at this article and thought, "Well, damn. What's left for me to go to now that doesn't suck?".

Re:WinMX (1)

steeef (98372) | more than 12 years ago | (#2635116)

last time i used winmx was a few weeks ago. it didn't have anything i was looking for. as far as asian pop goes, i'd say it's pretty popular on winmx. i saw quite a few asian clients on there (i'm basing this on the fact that when i searched for office xp, 90% of all the results were the japanese version). maybe it'll become more popular if/when kazaa is shut down.

Re:WinMX (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2635122)

what I look for is pretty damn obscure, i.e. Asian pop and such Whoa, Asians have pop now? I wonder where you would get that from... except Asia... or most of the West coast of North America, which seems to be pretty badly bitten with the whole Asian bug. Hell, I even have a healthy J-Pop collection. Now try feeding a Electroacoustic interest with Audiogalaxy, and you'll see how obscure things can get.

Already shut down for me and others (2)

DCowern (182668) | more than 12 years ago | (#2635077)

My university apparently decided to block access to FastTrak clients. A quick tip for others afflicted with the same problem, find a program called Proxy Hunter and scan other .edu's for unsecured proxies. That's how I get on now. I know that makes me an asshole but a) I want my MP3s, dammit and b) it's partly the fault of whoever is silly enough to leave an open proxy server sitting on their network.

Re: Already shut down for me and others (0, Flamebait)

Inthewire (521207) | more than 12 years ago | (#2635150)

I know that makes me an asshole but a) I want my MP3s, dammit and b) it's partly the fault of whoever is silly enough to leave an open proxy server sitting on their network.

Yeah, it does make you an asshole. Just reiterating an obvious point. Do you blame rape victims for having holes, too?

Great (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2635092)

We'll make a few more snide comments on slashdot, the RIAA lawyers will lobby a bit more to congress, and we'll slip further down. slashdot pisses me off because there's so much whining and so little action.

Too bad (1)

Prong (190135) | more than 12 years ago | (#2635093)

I'm not sad about this. Frankly, I don't know if US Fair Use principles extend to the EU, but this type of stuff is the worst enemy of legitimate sharing of materials. The bottom line is that when you set up an enterprise to make a profit from the wholesale transfer of copyrighted material, you're gonna get hit. I know that some people are going to scream "it's just software". Bullshit. These folks are running an companies based on copyright violation, plain and simple. They get what they deserve.

Lest anyone think I'm sympathetic with the current system, everyone in the Net community already knows how to fix this: roll yer own. Trade amogst yourselves, break the encoding, distribute free of charge. It may take a while, but if the technically literate help the clueless to make fair use of materials, then eventually the IP hardcore types will lose.

Sue everyone and everything (1)

Jobarr (540127) | more than 12 years ago | (#2635099)

Why don't we just sue every ISP, every internet backbone, every modem manucaturer, etc....Hell, let's sue ELECTRICITY.

RIAA Lawsuit Spree... (2, Funny)

x136 (513282) | more than 12 years ago | (#2635101)

I bet anyday that the RIAA will sue cisco for making routers that could be used to infringe.

In other news, the RIAA has filed lawsuits against Intel, AMD, and Motorola, alleging that processors produced by the aforementioned companies are being used to decode illegal pirated music.

openFT an alternative? (5, Interesting)

fault0 (514452) | more than 12 years ago | (#2635102)

Last I heard, not only were the giFT [giftproject.net] folks made an open sourced version of fasttrack (used by both kazaa and morpheus), but also, they were developing openFT, which is compeletely independent of kazaa, so if it were to go down, then we could still use it. there'd be no way to block it either, and it works much better (as in more reliably) than gnutella.

note that a few days after kazaa blocked giFT, they were sued by the RIAA. this was because they switched to a partially centralized network from a network that had previously only used central servers for authentication (which giFT had never used).

And the cycle continues... (1)

thesolo (131008) | more than 12 years ago | (#2635123)

Although the RIAA doesn't want to admit it, downloading MP3s has become commonplace anymore. MP3s get mentioned on TV, Radio, and everywhere else. For each service that they shut down, 2 more will come up to take their place. And for each one that goes down, the next one learns from their mistakes.

They can keep their legal team as busy as they want, but they will never put a real end to it.

Long live Kazaa! (1)

WickedClean (230550) | more than 12 years ago | (#2635161)

I've used Kazaa a good bit in the past couple months. It sucks that it is gonna die, but I kind of expected it. One thing you got to watch is there are a lot of virus-infected files on there and the Kazaa software has no built-in scanners.

I hope I helped... (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2635169)

Shortly after Kazaa came online I sent a note to the RIAA reporting address letting them know. To bad it took them this long. You fucks should go buy CD's instead of being common criminals that spend all your time trying to defend yourself with some bullshit communist line. HAHAHA!!! WinMX and all the others are next. There is also work being done to block access to Gnutella. You people can keep bringing new technology but others out there will keep blocking your work. It'll be fun and you will lose.

Re:I hope I helped... (1)

WildBeast (189336) | more than 12 years ago | (#2635182)

what a statement, yet cowardly posted. Sorry but you're a wimp. If you wanna state a strong opinion about something, at least give people a chance to reply to your email address and tell you why you're wrong.

Maybe you should become a dictator or something something.

Re:I hope I helped... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2635225)

Heh... I'm not going to put my email up so that some criminal high school students and Europeans can email me hah! There's no debating my opinion because it's right!! And I'm an idiot... I lost my login and don't really care.

Did anyone forget that Kazaa has spyware? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2635187)

For all of you that already get a ton of junkmail, Kazaa is cool. But it only contributes to the problem of more spam because of it's bundled spyware. I've gotten rid of it with Ad-aware and when I've reinstalled it because I wanted to DL something that I couldn't find on normal mp3 engines, I've noticed a considerable lag time in switching apps as well as all of my email accounts getting more personalized spam. For the meantime, I'm done with Kazaa and have switched over to morpheus. It's the same thing, w/o the spam. Protect your right to privacy and don't let companies scan your surfing habits so they can sell you more stuff you don't need anyway.

Good riddance to spyware (5, Insightful)

Sarcasmooo! (267601) | more than 12 years ago | (#2635196)

I don't like the copyright cartel anymore than most people here; in fact I probably hate them a lot more than most people do. But I also hate having spyware installed on my system without my knowledge. Like Kazaa does with Cydoor. So to all the guys at Kazaa, you can't see it, but at this very instant I'm giving you the big middle finger.

Re:Good riddance to spyware (1)

Sarcasmooo! (267601) | more than 12 years ago | (#2635202)

And I'm sorry if that seems harsh, but really, what could piss you off more than the RIAA except one of the 'good guys' turning around and stabbing you in the back?

At least they got it right. (2, Funny)

Sebby (238625) | more than 12 years ago | (#2635199)

....revealed when a Recording Industry Ass. of America internal memo was leaked to Web site Dotcom Scoop. Not long after the leaked memo was published, the RIAA and the Motion Picture Ass. of America sued KaZaA ...


The RIAA and MPAA sure are asses!

Stupid question (1)

saikou (211301) | more than 12 years ago | (#2635207)

Does that mean if Morpheus & Co manage to get to profitability level of more than $40000 a day they can happinly smile and say "sure, we'll pay this penalty" while continuing operating?


:)


Just a thought...

Ask for help from the Chinese (1)

WildBeast (189336) | more than 12 years ago | (#2635209)

Let's have the Chinese make a Napster-like software. The RIAA won't be able to do much :)

Re:Ask for help from the Chinese (1)

6odm (465845) | more than 12 years ago | (#2635257)

Heh, Good one.
What if someone founds out that www-browsers are used to transfer copyrighted material? HTTP must be evil protocol, lets sue every http-servers admins, and don't forget comppanies which made those unlawfull browsers.

Not translated quite correctly (2, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2635211)

The translation of the actual result seems to have lost some detail.

Basically - KaZaA is ordered itself to stop infringing on arfists their right withing two weeks. It is not said that they are actually doing so - but if they are - they better not do it two weeks from now.

But at the same time - the dutch version of the RIAA (well not quite comparable - the legal framing is way different) is ordered to sit down with KaZaA withing two days to reach agreement as to how to legally offer music.

So the sword cuts two ways. While it is by no means clear yet -if- kazaa actually has stepped on the artist rights in any way.

Also note that Buma/Stemra is quite in a different leage that the RIAA, has a lot more legal shackles and govt. oversight - and typically chargers very reasonable fees - for end users in the fractions of dollars per song. And is very cognant of fair use. The netherlands is rift with things like public libraries which rent out popular music.

Multiple A Logic (3, Funny)

Jugalator (259273) | more than 12 years ago | (#2635230)

"I had no idea Kazaa was this popular (must be all those a's in their name)."

Proof That A's Don't Determine Popularity

Kazaa = 3 A's.

RIAA + MPAA = 4 A's.

Still, Kazaa is more popular than RIAA and MPAA together.

This post is XHTML 1.0 compliant!

OLD VERSIONS? (2)

mcrbids (148650) | more than 12 years ago | (#2635232)

FT used to work w/o central servers - and presumably, the OLDER clients would work just fine, even without their parent companies.

SO WHO HAS OLD VERSIONS OF THE SOFTWARE?

Decentralizing etc.. (2, Informative)

TheCrunch (179188) | more than 12 years ago | (#2635258)

KaZaa, Morpheus & Grokster are clients for the (decentralized) FastTrack network. So unless the RIAA go after FastTrack, good ol' Morph & Grok should be OK. Possibly. I read a while back that in their attempts to stop giFt, K, M & G made all user authentication go through a central server. Hence the "possibly".

One thing I never did figure out was why K, M & G all look the same (bar different icons). What's up with that?? As far as I'm concerned, the RIAA can kill as many clients as they like. There will always be more (and better) P2P apps cropping up. Kinda like natural selection.

Anyhoo, here are some old Slashdot posts on the subject:

RIAA Looks To Stop KaZaA, Morpheus & Grokster [slashdot.org]
File Sharing: Decentralizing, Open-Source Fasttrack [slashdot.org]

-TheCrunch
.sig .freud

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