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Next Restricted CD Coming Soon

michael posted more than 12 years ago | from the reread-definition-of-customer-service dept.

Music 451

jroysdon writes: "Music industry quietly unveiling copy-proof CDs - 'Gariano said the CD case would carry a copy protection sticker and an insert explaining the technology. Record stores will accept returns, even if the CD case is opened, if buyers are unhappy with it.' I say we specifically look for titles with this sticker, purchase them, give them a whirl in our PCs and see them not play, and return them. Vote with not just our money, but their overhead costs to handle all the returned merchandise and bad publicity when stores don't want CDs with those stickers." Read the article - there are some great quotes there.

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451 comments

first? (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2638928)

post! Miranda Rirchardson is hot.

FP (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2638930)

FP haha. LOL;)

Nope. (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2638947)

If this was the wild west you would have smoked. dudeman got ya.

NIGGER KORBEN SUX DIC (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2638937)

niggerben sucks dick

'Nuff Said... (1, Redundant)

Bonker (243350) | more than 12 years ago | (#2638940)

"I own upwards of 800 CDs, but it seems like they're on a crusade against me," he said. "It's a strange development when you seem to be hellbent on alienating your best customers."

Not another one... (5, Interesting)

quantax (12175) | more than 12 years ago | (#2638945)

Yet another 'uncopyable' cd format. The way I see it, they're actually screwing themselves, because now people will crack & rip mp3s AND still be able to get their money back. Lets hope this one backfires on the RIAA real quick.

Re:Not another one... (5, Interesting)

dangit (539753) | more than 12 years ago | (#2638998)

That's a good point. Before this new return policy, an unopend cd was considered to be unreturnable unless it was flawed or broken in half :-)
Since we know that cd's with copy protection can be cracked, the RIAA is setting itself up for major losses. Does anyone (maybe people out there who work in record stores) know if 'restocking' fees might be charged on returns of copy-protected but opened cds?

Re:Not another one... (2, Interesting)

gray code (323372) | more than 12 years ago | (#2639009)

The only problem being "what happens when this becomes the standard rather than the exception?"

I wouldn't put it past the RIAA and their allies to just give a big ole "Fuck you!" to anyone who wants to listen to their CD's on a computer and for record stores to stop allowing exchanges.

I'd say Sony/RCA/etc don't care that you don't own a dedicated CD player (non-computer). They'll say that "if you want to listen to CD, buy a damned CD player you pirating hippy!"

Not their style (3, Insightful)

CaptainSuperBoy (17170) | more than 12 years ago | (#2639046)

This won't become the standard. Contrary to popular belief, the music industry does like people using portable players, computers, etc to listen to music. They just want it in a secure format. Once they brainwash everyone into dropping CD and adopting a new format, you'll be able to activate your disc online, make a certain number of copies to devices, etc., before they decide it's time to deactivate your music.

Of course none of this restricts anyone's fair use rights, and consumers won't find this at all annoying. I'll be happy when their carefully thought out scheme is adopted by exactly zero people, like DIVX and SDMI..

Re:Not another one... (1)

JMZero (449047) | more than 12 years ago | (#2639033)

Be nice if they implemented a similar system on PC games. Renting computer games for $0.00 would be way better than free music.

Re:Not another one... (2, Funny)

Hieronymus Howard (215725) | more than 12 years ago | (#2639085)

Be nice if they implemented a similar system on PC games. Renting computer games for $0.00 would be way better than free music.

I'm going to invent this and patent it. I'll make a fortune from cd-roms that can't be played in computers. That'll stop people from warezing them :-)

HH

Notice where the tech was from? (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2639102)

Israel. Imagine that. Jews trying to rip you off through the mass media biz?

Who whoulda thunk it?

Re:Notice where the tech was from? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2639113)

it doesnt matter who it is. stop being racest

Foreign copying is low tech anyway (2, Informative)

mugnyte (203225) | more than 12 years ago | (#2639189)

If you've seen the movies and music that are hacked the "cheap way" overseas, you know that they're going to put up with a few DAC loops to get the music out. Copy protection takes a whole step downward once pushed through pipes like that (although its not impossible).

I WILL buy CDs from artists I like, but only buy downloading/ripping the ones I like and mailing a personal check to the band (via member,fan club/agent) for how much I think its worth.

Yes, I also pay for shareware. I can't code and sleep at night otherwise. Call me the fool, but I want the SOURCES of things I like to continue, even through the nutjob management decisions.

Right now, bands make the most money from you directly when you organize your friends to hit the club and pay the cover and then leave with discs and t-shirts.

mug
+/-
pickle me elmo

Hrm (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2638950)

But would the RIAA even get the message after record stores stopped accepting said CDs? I mean, they sort of have a monopoly. If they wanted, they could run all the music stores out of business :/

Re:Hrm (1)

shakamojo (518620) | more than 12 years ago | (#2639088)

Yeah and if they did that, then they wouldn't have anyone to sell their products... no, I think that when they hear the complaints about these types of "secure" recordings, they'll listen... people have been making copies of music for years, it's nothing new.

we're beta-testers (5, Interesting)

klyX (116477) | more than 12 years ago | (#2638952)

you know they put this on such a random, sure fire non-platinum cd for a reson. they want to see us break the shit so they can make it better ! Which I'm sure people will do.

Re:we're beta-testers (4, Informative)

Computer! (412422) | more than 12 years ago | (#2639066)

Just crack the copy-protection (which many rippers already can do) by checking the "do not use CD error-correction" checkbox availible in some rippers/encoders. I can't remember whether it's to be checked or unchecked, you figure it out. Or, you could write a crack, and release it sans source. That way, it's protected by the DMCA. You can market it as a "sound quality enhancer" or some such. That way, the Industry must legally sit helplessly by as anyone with both brains and balls wrecks shop.

... bringing technology back 10 years... (1)

kevinqtipreedy (450228) | more than 12 years ago | (#2638956)

it seems like the solution to piracy is to make it not play in your computer. but then it doesnt play in dvd players and mp3/cd players. so i think companies that make these products should also be complaining. and are these cds red book standard?

fp (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2638958)

fp

Will it be a big star or a 'no-name'? (-1)

The Turd Report (527733) | more than 12 years ago | (#2638959)

Will it be used to 'protect' a well knows star (ie: Michael Jackson or some other pop-star) or will it be some unheard of (ie: Uncle Fudd's Oom-Pah Band)?

a day late..... (1)

8onal (539889) | more than 12 years ago | (#2638963)

If only Apple [slashdot.org] would have known about this....

Re:a day late..... (1)

Wyatt Earp (1029) | more than 12 years ago | (#2639050)

Wouldn't have helpped Apple any, because as someone pointed out from the Dead-Tree issue of the WSJ...this technology won't work on a Mac.

Re:a day late..... (1)

8onal (539889) | more than 12 years ago | (#2639076)

That was for the first copy-protection format, the one used on the Charley Pride CD. This new one may or may not use a different method. With guaranteed refunds, it is worth me trying to rip a disc on my Powerbook...the only audio component I have now that my portable player died.

For 2 days... (2, Informative)

Letter-D (469573) | more than 12 years ago | (#2638964)

I laugh when I hear that something has copy protection. I give it a month before someone cracks it.

Re:For 2 days... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2639048)

and I laugh when people say things like that. Because every single time the speaker know absolutely nothing about how to go about doing it.


They just type w4r3z in google and act like they are wizards when they finally find a site that will let them download.

Just use a CD player with optical out (2, Flamebait)

Ryu2 (89645) | more than 12 years ago | (#2638967)

Hook it to a soundcard with optical in, problem solved.

Re:Just use a CD player with optical out (3, Interesting)

brer_rabbit (195413) | more than 12 years ago | (#2639133)

yeah, that works great if you don't mind:

* doing it in real time. Glad you paid extra for that 50X speed cdrom drive?
* splitting the songs into separate files. Unless you explicitly do 1 song at time you'll be spending a good amount of time with SoundForge or a similiar editor.
* automate file naming via an external program.

The great thing about rippers is the automation. The one I'm writing myself puts the FreeDB/CDDB info into a local database along with track times from the CD and other metacrap that I deem important. All this automation is negated with what the record industry is trying to do.

Re:Just use a CD player with optical out (1)

jlower (174474) | more than 12 years ago | (#2639146)

Okay I admit my newest CD player is a couple years old but what is an "optical" out?

Re:Just use a CD player with optical out (2, Interesting)

FatRatBastard (7583) | more than 12 years ago | (#2639175)

Its a digital line out. There are usually two different types of digital line outs: optical and coax.

Grab a CD with optical out, grab a soundcard with an optical in, have fun ripping songs.

The only downside is that you have to rip in realtime and you'll probably have to ID the vast majority of the ripped files yourself.

Re:Just use a CD player with optical out (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2639166)

..or in the worst case, hook your good ole CD player to the analog input of your soundcard and sample the songs. Copy protection on analog output should be quite hard...
Sure, less audio quality, but I guess I could live what that. Can people share pirate movies recorded with camcorders in cinema theaters, can people accept sampled songs.

But what about the Xbox? (0)

liposuction (176349) | more than 12 years ago | (#2638972)

I would like to know if these CDs can be played in the Xbox? Microsoft want's the next X-station to be the bridge to the home entertainment PC - so now what? I don't have a home stereo because it's supposed to be a PC that can do everything. And I can't play music because the audio industry hates the PC.

Quite the little map for the future me thinks.

Re:But what about the Xbox? (1)

jdunlevy (187745) | more than 12 years ago | (#2639029)

I would like to know if these CDs can be played in the Xbox?

According to another article about this [cnet.com], the CD won't play on the Xbox. Or on a Mac. Or in some DVD players.

Oh, well. Guess they don't even want me as a potential customer. My current "CD player" is a PowerBook, and if I ever get a stand-alone unit, it'd be a DVD player.

Re:But what about the Xbox? (5, Interesting)

trilucid (515316) | more than 12 years ago | (#2639148)


That, sir, is a key point in all this mess. People are, more and more, wanting the ability to play their media in such devices as DVD players, the XBox, their PCs, etc. The RIAA must be completely blind.

How long before the majority of their customer base (music lovers at large) are primarily using "all in one" equipment (with PC-like capabilities) to play most of their CDs? I'd wager it won't be too long. People, seemingly by nature, love buying gadgets that do everything but clean the kitchen sink, and audio equipment is no exception. The technology is here to stay, regardless of whether or not the RIAA wants to cry about it.

My question is this: how long before the major manufacturers of such hardware get together and sue organizations like the RIAA for everything they're worth, el class action style, because their consumers can't play CDs on the equipment? Think about it: I'm a consumer, and the hardware I just bought says it can play CDs. Except it *can't* play these "protected" CDs without some sort of wierd hackery. If I'm not a geek (okay, I am, but just play along here), I won't (a) know *how* to get around it, and (b) won't *want* to get around it. I'd just want my hardware to work, damnit.

So, I complain to the hardware manufacturer, at which point they tell me it's not their fault, it's the fault of music distributors using stupid protection schemes. Uh, oh. I might get a wild hair to find out how many other people had been hurt by this, and toss my own personal class-action suit on top of the heap. Looks like the RIAA is headed for a major dent in the bank accounts.

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Better yet- (1)

Maskirovka (255712) | more than 12 years ago | (#2638975)

' I say we specifically look for titles with this sticker, purchase them, give them a whirl in our PCs and see them not play, and return them

Before you return them, rip em with a good ol' Hi-fi settup, and then post them on all you favorite swap services. In otherwords, give the labels a double finger.

Wait for Evolution to Act. (1)

ehack (115197) | more than 12 years ago | (#2638976)

If I buy a CD I want to be able to rip it. Seems to me pre-ripped CDs would sell better than normal CDs, these again better than copy-fooed CDs. This should be apparent to the buisness people in the companies (not the idiot lawyers), and the copy-fooed should soon head the dodo's way.

I agree with the plan (3, Interesting)

djcdplaya (220461) | more than 12 years ago | (#2638978)

While the poster's plan to return these cds will show an increase in sales, the massive amount of returns will hit them where it actually hurts. People that don't have computers (or burn cds) will buy roughly 80%-90% of these cds, the 10% of returns will drive stores insane and they will "prefer" not to stock them even if the album sells well.

While a record company doesnt care, a store has a vested interest in not having 1 of every 9 or 10 of an album returned with an angry customer. The stores want to keep the customer happy and these cds piss them off. Do the math.

Re:I agree with the plan (1)

The Step Child (216708) | more than 12 years ago | (#2639044)

If you decide to do this, do it at a large music store. Pissing off local small record stores doesn't do much for the cause.

Re:I agree with the plan (1)

Lonath (249354) | more than 12 years ago | (#2639079)

Actually, instead of a boycott of products now, we can stage a "returnfest" whereby everyone buys something once a week and then returns it. Amazing...they're giving people a way to cost them money without actually doing anything illegal.

Re:I agree with the plan (2, Interesting)

Computer! (412422) | more than 12 years ago | (#2639107)

Better still... organize a real "Return Fest '01". Everyone in your area can show up at the local Blockbuster Music, or Music Wherehouse or Camelot or wherever, each with 10-20 new CDs under their arm. At a predetirmined time, they can go stand in line and return their purchases, one-by-one. Get the media involved, too. The record industry assumes that people will eat whatever shit they provide. Looking at the sales of the latest "Now" compilation, they might be right.

not all stores will accept open returns (5, Insightful)

Lumpy (12016) | more than 12 years ago | (#2638982)

Remember you are dealing with people who cant handle jobs that require thought.

They wont allow you to return the cd because it's open. because they were told not to.

you need to open it, return it for another, open that and continue for 3-4 of the stock and then get a manager, explain how you have tried several and none work, take your open disc and have the manager try to play it on a dvd player or a pc.

The manager will probably clear and return the whole stock of the offending item to keep his annoyance down.

Re:not all stores will accept open returns (2, Interesting)

Silver222 (452093) | more than 12 years ago | (#2639005)

Most stores will take almost anything back if you raise your voice enough. Just make enough noise to start disturbing the other customers, and they will usually bend over backward to make you happy.

Re:not all stores will accept open returns (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2639080)

Remember you are dealing with people who cant handle jobs that require thought.

yeah, i hear that. you can't be blue-collared and intelligent. it's a contradiction in terms. also it's inconceivable to want to work at a record store. it's just a default for incompetent people who can't handle a cubicle. not to mention teens looking for job experience.. morons.

you know, as much as i value any plan to screw over the big record companies -- it seems unfair to fuck over the middle man, especially since some of them are record company victims themselves -- independent stores make very little money on cds to begin with. i just feel sorry for the consumer heat honest shopkeepers are going to get for this while the labels will be counting the bills.

Re:not all stores will accept open returns (5, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2639194)

please, please, please - don't fuck over the little guy. Please please please - if you do plan to do the "returnfest '01" do so at you local Blockbuster / Virgin / SamGoody / Big Record Store [tm]. Please don't screw over you local record shop. As a DJ and part owner of a small vinyl shop in las vegas - I beg you, please don't fuck over the little guy. There are fees involved in returned merchendise.

Come to think of it, if you go to the tower record that is just down the way from me and put them out of business with this little scheme, you're entitled to free records at my shop. Not really, but I'll hook you up ;)

Re:not all stores will accept open returns (0, Offtopic)

Jin Wicked (317953) | more than 12 years ago | (#2639082)

Remember you are dealing with people who cant handle jobs that require thought.



Not everyone is lucky enough or grows up in an environment that allows them to have a cushy programming job or something that "requires thought." I would appreciate you remembering this next time you feel like insulting retail employees or equating them with braindead zombies. Store policies exist for a reason and following instructions has nothing to do with being unable to think for oneself. Of course, we aren't all shining examples of intelligence like you.

Re:not all stores will accept open returns (1)

Computer! (412422) | more than 12 years ago | (#2639127)

Well said. Hasn't anyone ever had a really great record store clerk help them out? I have, so I appreciate the fact that some people want to work around music all day. Not because they're stupid, but because they like it.

Re:not all stores will accept open returns (1)

trilucid (515316) | more than 12 years ago | (#2639174)


Well said, indeed! I've had a LOT of music store folks help me out big-time when I couldn't find something, or wanted a recommendation on new stuff. People are either good at their jobs or not, and a lot of these people are very good.

Hmm... my first real job was serving soda and popcorn at a movie theater. I'd actually been programming for several years (started *young*), but couldn't find an employer who would take a 16 year old guy for a coding gig. I'd done some freelance stuff, but nothing big.

I don't like to hear people get down on people just because of their line of work. Honest work is, well, honest work. :)

Web hosting for geeks, by geeks. Starting at $4 USD per month. [trilucid.com]
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You must be a retail idiot too! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2639132)

Or perhaps food service. Would you like fries with that?

Re:not all stores will accept open returns (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2639155)

HAHAHAHAHAHA

Oh gawd you're funny.

retail = morons it always has been that way.
crappy service is the norm, rude or lazy clerks.... and I dont blame them I'd tell a customer to blow himself if I was getting 5.50 an hour, but then I'd go nuts doing something that braindead. hell get a job with a factory, or foundry or a plethora of other opportunities. the only job lower than a retail clerk is a manager of a gas station.

Re:not all stores will accept open returns (2)

linuxlover (40375) | more than 12 years ago | (#2639163)

You clearly haven't been to circuitcity or bestbuy in San Francisco bay area region. I just can't imagine the level of incompetenace of the sales force.

The only store I found floor people who are knowledgeable / friendly / not pushy is REI.

This is the reason I don't buy anything from those braindead stores (circuitcity / bestbuy). I mostly buy online!

Money grubbing Jews (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2638989)

Notice how a lot of those copy protection companys are Israelis? Yes, this is another Zionist scheme to suck your wallets dry, people! Dirty Jew bastards!

Blame me (3, Funny)

JMZero (449047) | more than 12 years ago | (#2639006)

I'd just like everyone here to know that I'm to blame for all this.

I copy files like crazy on Kazaa. I burn them on CD's. I seldom buy music anymore, because I can get it free.

A big sorry to all those of you who will be able to listen to less and less music on your computers/in your car. A big sorry to all those who use Kazaa for only legitimate purposes (hi Dan!)

Re:Blame me (2, Interesting)

JMZero (449047) | more than 12 years ago | (#2639149)

I find it entertaining that my post here was marked as flamebait.

What I'm hoping for is certainly not flame. I agree that these copy protection methods are wrong.

But we can't put all the blame on the RIAA. Some of the blame has to go to those who copy files illegally, like myself.

PS, I've got karma to burn - I think this is worth saying.

No. (2, Insightful)

big_groo (237634) | more than 12 years ago | (#2639017)

I say we specifically look for titles with this sticker, purchase them, give them a whirl in our PCs and see them not play, and return them. Vote with not just our money, but their overhead costs to handle all the returned merchandise and bad publicity when stores don't want CDs with those stickers."

I think that we should simply _not_ buy these CDs. That alone will speak louder than purchasing said CD and then returning it. Check the label (man are they stupid for marking these things), if it has the "new" copy protection, move on. They'll get the hint after a week or two of no sales.

We don't want to hurt the local retailer, or even the big chain. That is one sure-fired way to get the increased costs passed on to the consumer.

The WSJ said it was OS specific (5, Insightful)

Essron (231281) | more than 12 years ago | (#2639018)

There was an article on this in yesterday's Wall Street Journal, Dead Tree Version. They mention "slashdot.com" in the article actually.

Anyway, they say that the new CD's won't play on Macintosh, but are designed for Windoze. It's More evidence that WMP and WinXP are designed to bring DRM restrictions to the desktop, and most individuals either don't know or don't care how bad this is.

A few things (1)

Kasmiur (464127) | more than 12 years ago | (#2639020)

"This is not about piracy; this is about controlling consumer behavior," Von Lohmann

Love that quote.

Perhaps as they slowly introduce it to the rest of the population people will realize that thier habits will have to change(my mom rips and so does my little brother to avoid playing toaster oven all the time)

Perhaps they will force people to educate themselves on which CD's to purchase and not purchase. perhaps not.

Nice 'piracy' comment (3, Informative)

CaptainSuperBoy (17170) | more than 12 years ago | (#2639021)

From the article:

Midbar Tech's Noam Zur called copy-protection critics a fringe group that probably are pirates themselves. "Mainly those people have a large number of compilations on their PCs," Zur said.

Oh really Noam? At least you're not making any broad assumptions there. Say, did you know that music piracy actually STEALS billions of dollars from the industry each year?

Maybe he should call the EFF and hear what they have to say about it? After all they criticize copy protection.. therefore they must be a fringe group that supports piracy. I bet they have lots of "compilations" on their PCs, which we can safely assume are illegal (who would want to put songs on their computer if they already own the CD?)

What amuses me is how useless they'll find this to be. It only takes one person who can get a clean digital transfer, to populate file sharing networks with a song. They can't seriously think they'll prevent 100% of the copying. Of course they'll fight any attempts at interoperability (they call it piracy) with the DMCA.

What do they mean copy protection? (2, Redundant)

Doppler00 (534739) | more than 12 years ago | (#2639024)

As long as you can hear the music, there is no way they can actually copy protect it. You can simply connect the line out of a CD-Player to the line in of your sound card and then record the resulting song on a computer. Any watermarks in the song though will still exist, but as long as you have software that ignores those watermarks it should still continue to play.

I guess in the future they could also design all sound cards and recording devices to detect watermarks. Then you would be stuck looking for technology that predates these restrictions. I'm sure the music industry has a long term goal like this.

Re:What do they mean copy protection? (1)

Goat In The Shell (320974) | more than 12 years ago | (#2639154)


I guess in the future they could also design all sound cards and recording devices to detect watermarks. Then you would be stuck looking for technology that predates these restrictions. I'm sure the music industry has a long term goal like this.

Check out this essay [discover.com] by Jaron Lanier for more on that idea.

Remember, it's not copy protection, it's copy control.

DONT CRACK IT (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2639032)

Bide your time. Wait a couple years. Let the recording arts industry invest millions into changing over all production to the new uncopyable CD format.

THEN, crack it.

Why bother ? (5, Interesting)

Rosco P. Coltrane (209368) | more than 12 years ago | (#2639039)

The RIAA should just sell CDs with large padlocks on them, that would be a 100% efficient copy protection scheme.

Seriously though, I fail to understand the whole concept of copy protected CD : if I were to buy one of these CD at the price they're sold and I couldn't MP3 it directly with cdparanoia, I'd just play it on my standalone CD deck, digitize the audio and MP3 the captured data. In fact, I'd do that just because the RIAA doesn't want me to. The only thing I would lose is a little quality (not much, my deck is a good one), a little time to split the audio block into its original tracks, and no time at all renaming the tracks to what's written on the CD cover (which I always do/have to do anyway). The most time-consuming task of course would be to split the tracks at the right position, but I'm sure a small C program can help me do that in less than 5 minutes. Then after I'm done, say after 10 minutes of manual work, and 1 hour MP3ing everything and burning the files onto a CD, I store my original CD in a corner and enjoy the convenience of my MP3s anyway : it's a one-off job, and it really is worth doing, so at the end of the day, the RIAA's brain-dead schemes will just end up annoying the crap out of everybody and not prevent any copying at all.

good point (4, Funny)

poemofatic (322501) | more than 12 years ago | (#2639072)

and when you do, be sure to share the mp3 on gnutella, for those who don't have such a good deck.

Re:Why bother ? (4, Insightful)

CaptainSuperBoy (17170) | more than 12 years ago | (#2639074)

Even easier, if you have a digital output on your CD player you can just hook it up to a digital input on a soundcard. No loss of quality at all..

The RIAA is counting on the fact that most consumers won't go through this trouble. They are right, of course. However SOMEONE will go to all the trouble to rip the music, put it on P2P, and within 24 hours the whole world is "pirating" your "intellectual property". Don't they learn anything from the software industry? You CAN'T copy protect software for open spec hardware such as the PC. Period.

Re:Why bother ? (2)

Rosco P. Coltrane (209368) | more than 12 years ago | (#2639121)

"Even easier, if you have a digital output on your CD player you can just hook it up to a digital input on a soundcard. No loss of quality at all."

I was under the impression that there is a "copy bit" of some kind in the digital stream that prevents direct digital copying, am I mistaken ? do soundcards with digital inputs ignore it ?

Re:Why bother ? (1)

swb (14022) | more than 12 years ago | (#2639177)

Serial Copy Management System? I think it's SCMS or something similar, is generally implemented in recording decks like consumer DAT and Minidisc to prevent you from making a zillion serial (original->md->dat->dat-> etc) copies of CDs. I think most will let you do 1 generation and then balk beyond that.

I can't see a sound card caring what gets input to it digitally anymore than a CD writer cares what it writes to a CD, it's a software function.

Re:Why bother ? (1)

czardonic (526710) | more than 12 years ago | (#2639185)

I'm pretty sure that bit by bit copying is not affected by any attempts to add errors to the bit stream.

This tech usually revolves around preventing computers from recognizing the data as files, and/or adding noise that prevents a CD-ROM drive from reading the data (CD players ignore the errors).

Re:Why bother ? (2)

Shagg (99693) | more than 12 years ago | (#2639164)

Then after I'm done, say after 10 minutes of manual work, and 1 hour MP3ing everything and burning the files onto a CD, I store my original CD in a corner and enjoy the convenience of my MP3s anyway


Actually, after you're done you return the CD to the store and get your money back since stores will accept returns of open "copy-protected" CDs.

Re:Why bother ? (1)

Computer! (412422) | more than 12 years ago | (#2639165)

Sounds a lot like the process I have used in the past to "rip" vinyl. There are a lot of us still out there that collect and listen to vinyl records, and upload them to various sharing services. The inconveniences associated with this have not stopped releases from appearing online, it just usually takes a couple more days. There's a program to do the seperating of tracks for you here [cnet.com].

Good story, dumb advice. (1, Troll)

Junks Jerzey (54586) | more than 12 years ago | (#2639042)

vote with not just our money, but their overhead costs to handle all the returned merchandise and bad publicity when stores don't want CDs with those stickers

And what will this prove? That you really *were* going to copy the data to your computer and likely let your friends to the same? Look, if you're against this sort of thing then you shouldn't be looking to a giant record company to be providing you with your music. Listen to freely available MP3 files instead. Oh, they suck, do they? Well isn't that a surprise.

That's zero cost for "pirates". (5, Insightful)

thefogger (455551) | more than 12 years ago | (#2639049)

Before, the one person who ripped the cd and put it on the file sharing networks had to pay for the cd. Now, with this new ruling, he'll open the case, rip the cd with his stereo+optical out+sblive and RETURN THE CD TO THE STORE. Wow. That's cool, prestige in the ripper community at zero cost and risk. That takes all the fun away.

Copy Protection Question (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2639051)

I buy music cd's because the dvd-player (wonderful invention, that) won't play cd-r or cd-rw. If the dvd-player won't play the cd's I buy out of stores, where is my incentive to buy music cd's?

AC.

Will Philips fight it? (1)

8onal (539889) | more than 12 years ago | (#2639056)

They mentioned that 3 of the 5 major labels (possibly the most frightening fact in the article...only FIVE?!?!?) are signed on with Midbar Tech. What I wonder is whether stereo component companies like Philips (and other makers of audio-CD only player/recorders) will raise a stink against this. If it becomes widespread, it means major hardware revenue losses for them.

WTF? Modesto Bee? (1)

dongkiru (157748) | more than 12 years ago | (#2639058)

WTF? Who in their right mind would link a page to Modesto Bee? Granted, they've always carried Dave Barry's column for as long as I can remember, I just never expected to see a link to Modesto Bee... Blech. Well, few more hours of work, and it's time to head over to Modesto to see my parents...

Re:WTF? Modesto Bee? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2639097)

WTF? Who in their right mind would link a page to Modesto Bee? Granted, they've always carried Dave Barry's column for as long as I can remember, I just never expected to see a link to Modesto Bee... Blech. Well, few more hours of work, and it's time to head over to Modesto to see my parents...

Tell Gary Condidit I said hello....

Call me a Cynic... (2, Interesting)

Orne (144925) | more than 12 years ago | (#2639059)

Ok, so they're trying this "protection" out on the music tracks for the movie "Fast and the Furious".

So, now that its hit SlashDot, I expect hundreds (to thousands?) of curious geeks may travel out to their local music store, and buy a CD of a pretty awful movie that they (the readers) most likely would not have purchased under normal circumstances.

So, you're all going to head out in the name of science, and dump $20 on a CD, and plug it into your computer/DVD player. 80% of you will probably be using older drives/hardware (I still own a 2x IDE drive) that wont listen when this CD sends the copy-controls crap, and most likely you'll be able to read it like a normal CD. Or, wait a week for software upgrade, and you will. In any case, sooner or later you'll be able to rip it like normal, and the stores sure as hell won't be giving refunds.

Well, you're now stuck with a CD, and Universal just got a nice surge of capital to work on the development of "NeverCopyCD v2".

Show your anger by not buying it! Better yet, don't buy anything put out by Universal this Christmas, that'll shock them a lot more...

I don't understand it (4, Insightful)

BurritoWarrior (90481) | more than 12 years ago | (#2639065)

This will *never8 stop the true pirates...the ones that make thousands of CD's and have people selling them on street corners in big cities. It only hurts "casual copying", which is a small % of the overall problem. Same as Microsoft's activation policy...since when did the average consumer become the enemy?

Hey music industry: crack down on the counterfeit rings, that is where you are losing billions of dollars.

It seems to me (3, Interesting)

trilucid (515316) | more than 12 years ago | (#2639077)


that this continuous bullshit actually ends up hurting the already-ailing economy (here in the States). Sure, they're trying out their lovely "technology" on less-than-outrageously-popular CDs, but that doesn't help retail outlets any...

A lot of folks here are talking about sticking it to them where it hurts, namely by buying the CSs and then returning the after they're opened. This *will* hurt retail outlets who stock the discs. Unfortunately, we don't really have any other true recourse in the matter, so I have to support this course of action.

Yes, it's true that after a few thousand returned CDs, the retail guys and gals will probably get fed up and refuse to stock such "protected" CDs. The RIAA will eventually have to stop playing these stupid, asshole games with their customer base if they want to see their precious money continue to flow. How long it will take to get this through their thick heads is anybody's guess.

In the end, IT DOES NOT MATTER WHAT "PROTECTION" THEY ATTEMPT TO USE. If I can play the damned thing, I can use hi-fi equipment to dupe it. From there, I can do anything I want with the information. I can keep it for my personal, private fair-use play, or I can post it to every file-swapping network in existence. Will I personally post music ripped in this manner? Probably not (although the temptation is growing, yes indeedy). I'm CERTAIN that many, many other people will post the ripped tracks, however.

The folks behind this insanity are just plain stupid. They've been slow to embrace the concept of selling their music properly over the net, and choose instead to spend their money on dead-end paths such as paying attorneys to harass people. I laugh my ass off at them every time one of these stories breaks.

RIAA and pals, have fun hurting the economy while you can. You're only hurting yourselves in the end.

Web hosting by geeks, for geeks. Starting at $4 USD per month. [trilucid.com]
If you're gonna email, use the public key!

The logic fails me... (1)

doczarkhov (540337) | more than 12 years ago | (#2639092)

Let me get this straight. They want to make CDs unable to be transferred to an electronic format that can be copied over the internet. Plus they want me to buy an electronic copy (which, incidentally, can be copied over the internet). Am I missing something here?

it won't stop anything (2)

cr@ckwhore (165454) | more than 12 years ago | (#2639093)

This "copy protection" is silly. It won't be long before somebody cracks it... even then, there is still nothing stopping me from putting one of these CDs into a regular CD player, piping the audio into my line input jack, and encoding from that.

In fact, I prefer to encode all my CDs because I can mix/equalize them easier on my PC making them sound much better than unequalized CD audio. I do that because my PC is primary entertainment device... I made an investment in a nice sound system for my PC, and I'm sure that I'm not the only one.

This whole "copy protection" concept is really silly, and I believe it violates my right to fair use of the products I will purchase. I will continue to encode my CDs, thats all there is to it.

Remember 1983 (1)

JMZero (449047) | more than 12 years ago | (#2639096)

Why do people rent videos, instead of copying them from a friend who rented it?

Because renting a video is easy and cheap.

If there was a service that let me download music legitimately, I would use it.

It would need to be easy, and the catalogue would need to be extensive. I'd need to get a better file than an MP3 - actually, I should be getting better quality than current CDs. And it would need to be cheap. There's lots of songs I'd only pay $.25 cents for.

$0.25 > $0.00
$0.25 * 100,000,000 > $0.00

Re:Remember 1983 (1)

wwight (302660) | more than 12 years ago | (#2639188)

Why do people rent videos, instead of copying them from a friend who rented it?

Because renting a video is easy and cheap.


No, people tend to rent videos instead of owning video collections for two reasons. First, most people only watch a given movie once, or perhaps a handful of times. Why own it when you'll may never even watch it again? Second, vidoes cassettes and ripped DVDs take up a lot of space compared to music storage.

Contrast that with mp3s. People listen to the same songs over and over, maybe hundreds of times. That's the point of music. Second, music is easy to store. A whole album of mp3s takes up a fraction of the space of a DVD movie on a computer, and 12 songs on a CD take up much less physical space on a shelf than 12 vidoes or even 12 DVDs.

don't buy 'em (1)

bkim (93168) | more than 12 years ago | (#2639098)

Consumers should show some self control and not buy any of these copy protected CDs--no matter how much they really want them.

I find it amazing that the people making these albums allow something like this to happen. Why spend boatloads of money recording and mastering an album--making it sound as good as possible--when the record label is going to turn around and intentionally add distortion [cnet.com] to your music?

I don't suppose that even if the record labels were successful in increasing their revenues by reducing piracy, that the price of CDs would drop. We would essentially just be getting a flawed product for the same amount of money.

Oxymoron? (1)

Srsen (413456) | more than 12 years ago | (#2639099)

I would think something like "More Music from the Fast and the Furious" would have a sort of natural copy protection. Oh, and then there's that massive black market in pirated Charlie Pride albums.

Software licenses (1)

fiori (45848) | more than 12 years ago | (#2639104)

Wonder if the RIAA member corporations have any pirated software on their internal networks?

Argh, matey!!

look at the company behind the tech (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2639115)

Midbar is full of thievs and morons. Their technology has been talked about as ineffective and even non-existant.

Just about everyone in the industry think of midbar and those that run it as the laughingstock of the industry.

Basically thieves trying to convince everyone they have something to sell.

Think twice before following this plan... (1)

Geiger581 (471105) | more than 12 years ago | (#2639120)

Sure it may feel great to stick it to the major labels by apparently screwing them over twice, but it surely isn't N'Sync, Britney, or even the RIAA suits paying for reshelving costs. It's the owners of the franchise outlets that have to put up with it. Those poor bastards usually have enough expenses to deal with, including ungodly rent in malls, etc. And just remember about the price-fixing crap of a few years ago (of which I think the RIAA/whoever eventually were found guilty in some suit). Just let poor sales speak for themselves.

RIAA, DMCA lease retro IBM mainframes (3, Funny)

sabinm (447146) | more than 12 years ago | (#2639134)

In a related article, a new copyright protection form is in place. The Music industry is now distributing music in an old IBM mainframe. In order to listen to music, a certified IBM mechanic will come and set up one sound file in machine code to play on your personal mainframe.

"We need to do this in order to change the way people listen to music. Their behaviors." Mr Noam complained. "Those who can't fit a IBM in their boxes will have to come up to corporate headcquarters to listen to music in our RIAA muzak devices, or rent space at a cafe and listen to the Jukebox"
When asked if people would take to the idea of a IBM technician with a plummer's crack coming into their homes to play only one song, Mr. Noam stated, " We have a picture of a guy who looks pretty happy with his IBM MonoSound system. He's happy! Doesn't he look happy to you?"

http://www.columbia.edu/acis/history/collage.htm l

Don't ship it to Canada (5, Interesting)

Wintermancer (134128) | more than 12 years ago | (#2639135)

I swear, the moment these things cross the border, I'll be on my MLA's ass like a fat kid on Smarties.

Honestly, every time I puchase a CD-R, I am paying a levy that gets redistributed to the record companies for the priviledge of being able to record music at home. The moment that I can no longer do so, it's -- repeat after me -- "taxation without compensation".

Otherwise: buy-return-complain-rinse-wash-repeat

I'm sure it will be economically unsound to distribute CDs in a format that the consumer does not want. Namely, ones that prevent fair-usage rights...the one's that I'm already being taxed on.

Isn't this illegal in Canada? (1)

WillSeattle (239206) | more than 12 years ago | (#2639186)

Under the Electronic Privacy Act, I thought there was something that said you can't sell software with virus code in it.

This is virus code.

Sue them, as a True Canadian.

And have a Molson's on me!

-

What about the real error correction? (1)

mrvis (462390) | more than 12 years ago | (#2639136)

This is what I want to know about these technologies - what do they to the inherent error correction in a CD? A lot of them say that they are implemented by putting bad data in redundant tracks. Aren't these redundant areas used to make my scratched up CD's play smoothly? Will all my CD's need to be kept perfect to remain clear now?

How does this prevent CD copying/ripping? (1)

biwillia (35276) | more than 12 years ago | (#2639141)

I simply do not understand how this prevents the ripping or copying of CDs. Anyone who owns a CD player with a digital out (optical or SPDIF connector) and a high-quality external CD recorder can create an _identical_ digital copy (with correct track breaks). Since the copy of the original would not be copy-protected itself, it could then be used to mass-duplicate the original CD using any normal internal CD-ROM writer device. From there, MP3s would be produced and traded around the world.

By angering consumers who purchase these CDs with copy protection, the companies that promote technologies such as this are only shooting themselves in the foot. Consumers will only buy products that are usable everywhere.

It is simply impossible to prevent people from copying audio (or video, for that matter) content. If you can hear the sound coming out of speakers, it can be duplicated. Period.

What is wrong with this? (2, Insightful)

Astral Traveller (540334) | more than 12 years ago | (#2639142)

Fair use issues aside, the immaturity displayed by the abundance of copyrighted music on Napster, KaZaA et al. has signalled copyright holders that they need some sort of control in order to prevent copyright infringement on the gargantuan scale of today's P2P networks. While I'm still not totally enamored of this technology (since it doesn't allow for even one generation of copies for backup, WMA/MP3 players, etc.), they are at least heading in the right direction. Notice that this time, they are clearly labelling the copy-protected CDs, and encouraging returns from unsatisfied customers.

While total copy prevention is bad for us consumers, no protection at all is bad for the producers. Instead of the childish stimulus-response behaviour against all forms of copy-protection, we need to work with the content producers in order to develop a scheme that helps both consumers (by encouraging fair-use) and producers (by preventing large-scale robbery of copyrighted works). They are willing to please the consumers (remember, they have to in order to keeping getting our dollars), so instead of rejecting it, make constructive criticisms. This is the only way we are going to be able to full realize the benefits of digital information.

You assume too much... (1)

fenix down (206580) | more than 12 years ago | (#2639150)

"...bad publicity when stores don't want CDs with those stickers."

Then obviously they'll just take off the stickers again.

I'd like it better that way anyway. It's like gambling, but you can actually win. When you catch one of the defectives, you get to berrate that guy at the store that can't appreciate your impeccable musical taste!

It's not so much of a sport as "Stump the Radio Shack Drone", but it's more challenging.

How to remove linux and install windows (-1)

Anonymous Pancake (458864) | more than 12 years ago | (#2639151)

SUMMARY
This article describes how you can remove the Linux operating system from your computer, and install a Windows operating system. This article also assumes that Linux is already installed on the hard disk using Linux native and Linux swap partitions, which are incompatible with the Windows operating system, and that there is no free space left on the drive.

Windows and Linux can coexist on the same computer. For additional information, refer to your Linux documentation.

MORE INFORMATION
To install Windows on a system that has Linux installed when you want to remove Linux, you must manually delete the partitions used by the Linux operating system. The Windows-compatible partition can be created automatically during the installation of the Windows operating system.

IMPORTANT : Before you follow the steps in this article, verify that you have a bootable disk or bootable CD-ROM for the Linux operating system, because this process completely removes the Linux operating system installed on your computer. If you intend to restore the Linux operating system at a later date, verify that you also have a good backup of all the information stored on your computer. Also, you must have a full release version of the Windows operating system you want to install.

Linux file systems use a "superblock" at the beginning of a disk partition to identify the basic size, shape, and condition of the file system.

The Linux operating system is generally installed on partition type 83 (Linux native) or 82 (Linux swap). The Linux boot manager (LILO) can be configured to start from:

The hard disk Master Boot Record (MBR).

The root folder of the Linux partition.

The Fdisk tool included with Linux can be used to delete the partitions. (There are other utilities that work just as well, such as Fdisk from MS-DOS 5.0 and later, or you can delete the partitions during the installation process.) To remove Linux from your computer and install Windows:
Remove native, swap, and boot partitions used by Linux:

Start your computer with the Linux setup floppy disk, type fdisk at the command prompt, and then press ENTER.

NOTE : For help using the Fdisk tool, type m at the command prompt, and then press ENTER.

Type p at the command prompt, and then press ENTER to display partition information. The first item listed is hard disk 1, partition 1 information, and the second item listed is hard disk 1, partition 2 information.

Type d at the command prompt, and then press ENTER. You are then prompted for the partition number you want to delete. Type 1 , and then press ENTER to delete partition number 1. Repeat this step until all the partitions have been deleted.

Type w , and then press ENTER to write this information to the partition table. Some error messages may be generated as information is written to the partition table, but they should not be significant at this point because the next step is to restart the computer and then install the new operating system.

Type q at the command prompt, and then press ENTER to quit the Fdisk tool.

Insert either a bootable floppy disk or a bootable CD-ROM for the Windows operating system on your computer, and then press CTRL+ALT+DELETE to restart your computer.

Install Windows. Follow the installation instructions for the Windows operating system you want to install on your computer. The installation process assists you with creating the appropriate partitions on your computer.

Examples of Linux Partition Tables
Single SCSI drive
Device Boot Start End Blocks Id System
/dev/sda1 * 1 500 4016218 83 Linux native (SCSI hard drive 1, partition 1)
/dev/sda2 501 522 176715 82 Linux swap (SCSI hard drive 1, partition 2)
Multiple SCSI drives
Device Boot Start End Blocks Id System
/dev/sda1 * 1 500 4016218 83 Linux native (SCSI hard drive 1, partition 1)
/dev/sda2 501 522 176715 82 Linux swap (SCSI hard drive 1, partition 2)
/dev/sdb1 1 500 4016218 83 Linux native (SCSI hard drive 2, partition 1)
Single IDE drive
Device Boot Start End Blocks Id System
/dev/hda1 * 1 500 4016218 83 Linux native (IDE hard drive 1, partition 1)
/dev/hda2 501 522 176715 82 Linux swap (IDE hard drive 1, partition 2)
Multiple IDE drives
Device Boot Start End Blocks Id System
/dev/hda1 * 1 500 4016218 83 Linux native (IDE hard drive 1, partition 1)
/dev/hda2 501 522 176715 82 Linux swap (IDE hard drive 1, partition 2)
/dev/hdb1 1 500 4016218 83 Linux native (IDE hard drive 2, partition 1)
Also, Linux recognizes more than forty different partition types, such as:
FAT 12 (Type 01)

FAT 16 > 32 M Primary (Type 06)

FAT 16 Extended (Type 05)

FAT 32 w/o LBA Primary (Type 0b)

FAT 32 w/LBA Primary (Type 0c)

FAT 16 w/LBA (Type 0e)

FAT 16 w/LBA Extended (Type 0f)

Note that there are other ways to remove the Linux operating system and install Windows than the one mentioned above. The preceding method is used in this article because the Linux operating system is already functioning and there is no more room on the hard disk. There are methods of changing partition sizes with software. Microsoft does not support Windows installed on partitions manipulated in this manner.

Another method of removing an operating system from the hard disk and installing a different operating system is to use an MS-DOS version 5.0 or later boot disk, a Windows 95 Startup disk, or a Windows 98 Startup disk that contains the Fdisk utility. Run the Fdisk utility. If you have multiple drives, there are 5 choices; use option 5 to select the hard disk that has the partition to be deleted. After that, or if you have only one hard disk, choose option 3 ("Delete partition or logical DOS drive"), and then choose option 4 ("Delete non-DOS partition"). You should then see the non-DOS partitions you want to delete. Typically, the Linux operating system has two non-DOS partitions, but there may be more. After you delete one partition, use the same steps to delete any other appropriate non-DOS partitions.

After the partitions are deleted, you can create partitions and install the operating system you want. You can only create one primary partition and an extended partition with multiple logical drives by using Fdisk from MS-DOS version 5.0 and later, Windows 95, and Windows 98. The maximum FAT16 primary partition size is 2 gigabytes (GB). The largest FAT16 logical drive size is 2 GB. For additional information, click the article number below to view the article in the Microsoft Knowledge Base:
Q105074 MS-DOS 6.2 Partitioning Questions and Answers
If you are installing Windows NT 4.0, Windows 2000, or Windows XP, the Linux partitions can be removed and new partitions created and formatted with the appropriate file system type during the installation process. Windows allows you to create more than one primary partition. The largest partition that Windows NT 4.0 allows you to create during installation is 4 GB because of the limitations of the FAT16 file system during installation. Also, the 4-GB partitions use 64-KB cluster sizes. MS-DOS 6.x and Windows 95 or Windows 98 do not recognize 64-KB cluster file systems, so this file system is usually converted to NTFS during installation. Windows 2000 and Windows XP, unlike Windows NT 4.0, recognizes the FAT32 file system. During the installation of Windows 2000 or Windows XP, you can create a very large FAT32 drive. The FAT32 drive can be converted to NTFS after the installation has completed if appropriate

Fellowship of the Rings soundtrack (2)

Glytch (4881) | more than 12 years ago | (#2639159)

Slightly offtopic, but did anyone else have problems ripping this CD? When I used cdparanoia, it really screwed with the reiserfs partition I was ripping the wavs to. I've never had a problem with any other cd. Luckily, I use a 1 gig scratch partition for stuff like this, so I didn't have to go through the hassle of restoring the entire drive.

Exact tactics to use for returned CDs (4, Informative)

WillSeattle (239206) | more than 12 years ago | (#2639170)

First, use a credit card. Keep the receipt and the packaging.

Second, take it home. Do not play it on a standard CD player. Play it on your home PC, your MP3/CD player, something likely to not work "flawlessly".

Third, since it failed to work there - take it back to the store. Insist on a full credit card reversal of charges, including sales tax. If they balk, deny the charges via Visa or Mastercard. Point out that you will do this. Ask to see the manager at the first sign of hesitation. Do not accept an in-store credit or partial refund.

Fourth, file a complaint with your State Attorney General for misleading business practices. Use the info from the insert slip that you copied down when you bought it. Each of these must be investigated as attempted consumer fraud. Which they are. You can't sell shoddy or imperfect goods as if they were standard goods, and unless the ADVERTISEMENT pointed that out in large letters, they have committed an implicit fraud on you the innocent buyer.

Fifth, file with the FTC under the same claim.

Sixth, sue them in small claims court for time and trouble, travel expense (36 cents per mile to and from), postage, and any other expenses.

Seventh, send an email to the execs of the record company who did this.

Eighth, send a postcard to the artist who had their music polluted. Point out you will never buy their music again, you are so offended.

Ninth, have a merry christmas!

-

Great! (2)

mindstrm (20013) | more than 12 years ago | (#2639173)

I have no problem whatsoever with these 'restricted CD' things as long as they are clearly labeled as such, so I know they aren't a normal CD. No problem whatsoever.

WTF? (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2639182)

What is everyone's fucking problem with paying artists and record companies for music? America is the epitome of a capitalist nation. If you want to pirate music and software move to China. Let's respect intellectual property. thanks.

Can anyone say "AUX OUT" ???? (1)

GuNgA-DiN (17556) | more than 12 years ago | (#2639193)

I don't understand why this is such a big deal. Sure you can't pop it into your CD-ROM drive and rip the entire CD. But, what is to stop you from hooking the Auxillary OUT of your stereo to the Line IN port of your soundcard?

If they think that this is going to stop us from ripping MP3s they are in for a rude awakening!
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