×

Welcome to the Slashdot Beta site -- learn more here. Use the link in the footer or click here to return to the Classic version of Slashdot.

Thank you!

Before you choose to head back to the Classic look of the site, we'd appreciate it if you share your thoughts on the Beta; your feedback is what drives our ongoing development.

Beta is different and we value you taking the time to try it out. Please take a look at the changes we've made in Beta and  learn more about it. Thanks for reading, and for making the site better!

Online e-Commerce Issues w/ PayPal?

Cliff posted more than 12 years ago | from the knowing-what-happens-with-your-money dept.

The Internet 410

A concerned entrepreneur submitted this question for your consideration: "I run a very small online company and the main method we obtain payments for products is via PayPal. In this digital age having an easy way to accept payments for goods is critical to small business survival. Have you had problems with PayPal freezing your accounts, have you had any issues with PayPal harming any of your credit? Neither has happened to me but it it still is a concern. Recently, I was sent this site, became concerned and wanted to ask Slashdot readers for their input on security and any problems they may have had with this service." If you send your money to a website for safekeeping, you expect it to be safe, and a large part of this perception is based on dependable customer support. According the warning site, it sounds like PayPal might be a bit deficient on this end. Have any of you experienced similar problems?

"I don't necessarily trust the website I linked to, nor PayPal's statements. PayPal requires you to register your credit card AND your checking account and could conceivably and legally(?) remove any and all funds and stop you from withdrawing a dime from your PayPal account as well as your own checking account at their whim. What is a small business to do?"

Just an aside, if you are signing up for a personal account, you only need your credit card. It's merchants who want to use PayPal's premium features who have to specify banking information as well.

cancel ×
This is a preview of your comment

No Comment Title Entered

Anonymous Coward 1 minute ago

No Comment Entered

410 comments

Me getting FPs has got to stop (-1)

Fecal Troll Matter (445929) | more than 12 years ago | (#2683157)

It's just getting old now, not to mention boring.

You... (-1)

GaylordFucker (465080) | more than 12 years ago | (#2683380)

are a homosexual faggot, it's sad how half the comments in the sections are you under your stupid name, or anonymous coward or your other stupid names... you're just a kid, not an old timer like me... apt-get lost fool

its a scam (-1)

ArchieBunker (132337) | more than 12 years ago | (#2683164)

Its like a big troll site. People are spamming this all over usenet and its nothing new if you read paypals terms of service. I use paypal a lot for ebay and have never had a problem. But then again all my transactions were from people with good feedback and plenty of past transactions. Its called common sense.

Re:its a scam (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2683194)

Whoever modded this down is dumb. It true. There's about 5 spams to every newsgroup for this site.

Re:its a scam (0)

geddes (533463) | more than 12 years ago | (#2683215)

Well, maybe you should give them the benefit of those doubt, from thier site:
NOTICE: (12/6/01) We are received numerous reports indicating this web site is being spammed in the Usenet groups. This website has nothing to do with any spam - we rely on word of mouth and banner exchanges.The person responsible has contacted us. They thought they were doing something good. We have asked them to stop and we believe they have.

Sounds like some angry guy who was stiffed was just trying to get the word out.

I cant use paypal (-1)

Fembot (442827) | more than 12 years ago | (#2683169)

Paypal accept no forms of card that I have, and i dont think they accepted checks yet so a site using pay pal is no go for me full stop

Mis-informed (?) (2, Informative)

sid crimson (46823) | more than 12 years ago | (#2683176)


It's merchants who want to use PayPal's premium features who have to specify banking information as well.


Is this a new policy? Paypal asked for my bank info when I signed up ~6 months ago... for their standard service (no premium features).

-sid

Re:Mis-informed (?) (1)

Control-Z (321144) | more than 12 years ago | (#2683243)

The real deal is, they only require your credit card info to start a PayPal account, which is good and fine. But you can only charge up to $1,000 worth of stuff before they require you to supply your bank account information to become a "verified" member.

Now there's no way they're getting my bank account info. Don't they think that charging $1000 worth of stuff to my credit card over a couple years is enough to "verify" me?? What I did when I recently hit the $1000 limit was start another PayPal account using a different e-mail address and a different credit card number. That seemed to work just fine.

PayPal (5, Informative)

PopeAlien (164869) | more than 12 years ago | (#2683182)

The only problem I've had with PayPal was a looong delay in processing a bunch of payments for a group buy of webplayers. A lot of people in the co-op were highly irritated with the delay. They wanted the main buyer that we were sending our money to to prove his identity.. If anything this reassured me. I've also used it without a hitch to buy a few things off ebay.

I think the main thing to keep in mind is that PayPal is not a bank, and not FDIC insured.. I'd use it as a method to exchange money online, but not as a cash storage facility.

The Lack of Physical Stuff (4, Interesting)

Ieshan (409693) | more than 12 years ago | (#2683183)

I think a lot of internet junkies are still wary because they're decent business-people too, and this being the case, the reason people distrust online banks and payment services are their apparent lack of physical stuff.

When you go into a regular bank, you look around and see they have pretty lightbulbs, nice counters, poorly decorated walls, and all sorts of plush chairs and things. They've even got those little pens. Other people are waiting inside. These things make you *want* to be there.

A website might be real, real pretty, but that doesn't have any physical worth. When I step into a pretty bank, I know that my money is probably going to be secure because in the worst case senario, they've got physical stuff to back my loan with. While this doesn't have practical application in the real world, this is a large part of how our brain percieves things.

Paypal is dubious because they've got nothing to look at. Sure, they've got a big customer base, but *where is* paypal, and who runs the thing? I think the digital world is still evolving in that we still can't estimate worth by a website. I hope we can in the future.

Re:The Lack of Physical Stuff (2, Insightful)

dachshund (300733) | more than 12 years ago | (#2683231)

I think a lot of internet junkies are still wary because they're decent business-people too, and this being the case, the reason people distrust online banks and payment services are their apparent lack of physical stuff.

Or maybe it's because internet service companies have tendency to go tits up without much warning. Regardless of how much physical "stuff" they've got lying around.

Re:The Lack of Physical Stuff (1, Insightful)

MrR0p3r (460183) | more than 12 years ago | (#2683244)

Not to mention the fact that an online bank can just disappear, and a "real world" bank can't. I think the fear comes in when that kind of liquidity exists.

Re:The Lack of Physical Stuff (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2683353)

A real world bank can't disappear?

Apparently you've lived in the suburbs too long.

Fly-by-night banking scams are all too common in the larger cities.

Re:The Lack of Physical Stuff (2)

unformed (225214) | more than 12 years ago | (#2683307)

Paypal is at *http://www.paypal.com* It -is- a physical place. It is called the Web Wide World.

and Elon Musk [upenn.edu] owns Paypal.

There you go; Now all your doubts about Paypal can henceforth be gone.

Begone, Evil Thought, Begone!

Re:The Lack of Physical Stuff (3, Interesting)

mkettler (6309) | more than 12 years ago | (#2683325)

Well, I tend not to put much credit into the "physical stuff" of a bank. If a bank goes under the value of their "physical stuff" will likely be very insignificant compared to the potential debt of the company. Remember the S&L scandals of the 80's? Personally I find the fact that a bank is federally insured much more reassuring than their "physical stuff". (Paypal is not a bank and not insured as one) Even FDIC has its limits, but it provides far more backing than the paltry physical assets of most banks.
think about the assets of a small-mid sided bank office (wild guesses here, I'm not a banker):

Commercial building maybe 500k, but is likely leased
Computer equipment: 200k
office furniture, pens, etc: 100k
specialized facilities (safe deposit vault): 500k

So their physical assets might be as much as 1.2 million, supporting moderate number of small business accounts (200 maybe) and a decent number of personal accounts (3000 maybe), again, more guesses. Assuming an average value of these accounts at $2000 each (guessing) that's 6.4 million. And that's just the deposit side of things, not the loan side. Even with the wild inaccuracies of my guesses, it's not hard to see that the physical assets are not likely to match up much against the value of the accounts.

PayPal is *not* a bank (5, Informative)

coyote-san (38515) | more than 12 years ago | (#2683385)

The problem isn't that Paypal is an online bank, it's that it's not a bank at all!

Real banks have state charters and are closely supervised, have strict documentation and recording requirements, etc. I don't give a damn about the physical appearance of my bank, I do care about that little sign on the front door saying "FDIC insured." This doesn't mean that I'll never have problems, but it (and the state charter required for that insurance) does guarantee that they keep sufficient records for problems to be resolved, that money in accounts won't go *poof* if the bank goes under, etc.

But Paypal is nothing. If it goes under, the money it holds just disappears. If it says it's never heard of me, I have no way of proving that I have an account with thousands of dollars. If they make a payment, they have no statutory requireemnt to document that it was authoritized or to refund my money.

I'm not totally without rights, but instead of strong local oversight I have to deal with a civil suit in the Federal courts for a contract dispute. If I could prove that we had a contract (did you ever get a signed document from PayPal?). If I could afford the expense. If I could affort the long delays before the case is heard. And all of that assumes that they haven't changed their "terms of service" to require binding arbitration by an arbitrator of their choice.

During the early days, this may have been justifiable. Not just because it costs money and time to do it right, but because the regulatory agencies wouldn't have known what to do with something like PayPal. I know, because I actually checked local laws and discovered requirements for things like a physical location open to the public, cash reserves, etc.

But not now - even if PayPal is completely honorable (and I have no reason to believe otherwise), the lack of oversight limits how much confidence we can have in them. If they are acting like a bank and being perceived as a bank, it's long past time for them to BE a bank. Until then, they're no different than trusting "my buddy Bob" to deliver you the cash promised the next time he's in town.

Not as a seller, but as a client... (5, Informative)

richardbowers (143034) | more than 12 years ago | (#2683184)

I paid to a "verified" seller, and PayPal refused to make good when he stiffed me. They took two months to even investigate my claim, and when they did, they responded that the bank account they had verified no longer existed. (Gee, no kidding). Since then, they've continued to send me spam, but won't do anything about the money. I look at using PayPal as being a step better than sending cash through the mail, but definitely several steps below using an actual credit card or even a check (since you can place holds on checks, and they take time to clear). I don't plan on using them ever again, and I steer clear of businesses that use PayPal as their only method of credit card payment.

Re:Not as a seller, but as a client... (4, Insightful)

0xA (71424) | more than 12 years ago | (#2683251)

This is the problem with PayPal.

I know lots of people who have never had a problem with PayPal, everything runs smoothly. The people I've talked to that have had a problem all have had a complete nightmare with it. Every one of them.

Now it is possible, prehaps likely that people that have a problem that is resolved quickly are less likely to complain about it. This could be why I've never heard good things about their customer service but I don't think it's the case. Banks have sets of rules and years of experience dealing with problem transactions. They aren't perfect (I have stories, that would make you ill) but because PayPal is a pretty new concept I think they still have a lot of kinks to work out.

Re:Not as a seller, but as a client... (1)

cgleba (521624) | more than 12 years ago | (#2683260)

They stiffed me in the same way also. I agree completely with your comment.

Granted, I did do a LOT of successful transactions using them, but that one time I got stiffed pissed me off a LOT.

Re:Not as a seller, but as a client... (2, Insightful)

Tom7 (102298) | more than 12 years ago | (#2683328)


Did you take your complaint to your credit card company??

Re:Not as a seller, but as a client... (4, Informative)

clifyt (11768) | more than 12 years ago | (#2683343)

I agree, as opposed to cash in the cash in the mail (Money Orders / Whatever) it is a hell of a lot better.

I use PP for a lot of transactions, and have also recently paid to get a merchant account with a 'real' bank. Its far more expensive, and the rules are far stricter...especially since we sell everything over the internet. If I get screwed by someone with the Merchant Account, I am out the merchandice, I get a return fee AND if the bank happens to approve too many fradulent cards, they charge us again.

To me, that is far worse than PPs methods. Why the hell should I be charged by the bank for something they approved? I'm told I can pay for their verification system (at a cost of like $1 per transaction of something huge like that), but they still don't offer any insurance.

No system is perfect, hell, a friend sold a few gran worth of equipment and decided to do things the most secure way he knew how -- COD through UPS. UPS took the obviously fraulent money order (looked like it was printed on a bad inkjet) and then proceeded to blame the seller...told him to talk to the postal authorities since it was a 'postal money order', who of course didn't have anything to do with it as they didn't print it out, and it wasn't one of their folks accepting it.

So, to me, PP offers far greater security than merchant accounts. As a buyer, I get a little warry about folks using this, but as a seller, I'd rather take the few problems PP has over the other systems...

clif

Re:Not as a seller, but as a client... (1)

Shimmer (3036) | more than 12 years ago | (#2683355)

But you *are* using an "actual credit card". Can't you just get your CC company to reverse the transaction? Then PayPal is stiffed, but you aren't (joy!).

-- Brian

Lemme guess... (-1, Troll)

Wakko Warner (324) | more than 12 years ago | (#2683186)

You found this site on Usenet in alt.* somewhere, didn't you? It's a rather alarmist site, wouldn't you say? Almost as if there's some sort of ulterior motive behind it?

Once I've had a problem with PayPal, I'll let you know.

Re:Lemme guess... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2683320)

Granted, you have to take everything you read on the Web with a grain of salt. However, it should scare the pants off of every business person who uses Paypal, that Paypal isn't regulated in any way, unlike credit card companies and banks. Paypal is being like any business run by people with few morals, anything to make a buck. If we think banks and credit card companies are bad, imagine how bad they would be if they weren't regulated. Take about bending over. :)

George

Been using it for quite a while... (1)

InnereNacht (529021) | more than 12 years ago | (#2683187)

Never really had any problems in all honesty. I've been on the giving and receiving ends and never noticed any sort of blips or glitches. Everything seamlessly goes into and exits my checking account. Also, I've not only used the account with Ebay, but with a bunch of donations for other online gaming websites.

It seems that the majority of people who run non-sponsored websites (Popular ones, not Jim-Bob's Pinto Paradise) do their best to take in donations to cover the costs of maintaining their service, and a lot of them use that.

Almost there (0, Redundant)

1ridium (220238) | more than 12 years ago | (#2683190)

Paypal seems like it is a step in the right direction especially for online auctions but for now but it doesnt seem like it is quite there yet.

Previous Articles (2, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2683192)

Also good for a read:

http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=01/10/17/1919 22 2&mode=thread

http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=00/08/31/1935 21 2&mode=thread

Nothing wrong with Paypal... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2683193)

Been using it since it first came out. Security has never been a problem personally (I have purchased and sold on Paypal on a regular basis).
Another thing too is the fact that up to a certain amount of your account is insured against fraud should that happen. Another option you have is that paypal can automatically deposit your balance into a bank account of your choice...
check out their FAQs and tutorials

PooPal? No, I've never met Michael... (-1)

Al Gore (152558) | more than 12 years ago | (#2683195)

"Filthy Sanchez" takes care of all my e-Commerce needs. NAFTA rocks. Ayayayayayayayaycarumba!

someone else's experience (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2683196)

I have had many issues from a Buyer's perspective with paypal. I won't get into it, but here's [hotspotshawaii.com] a tale that you may find of interest.

Simple solution (2, Insightful)

Darth Yoshi (91228) | more than 12 years ago | (#2683197)

Open a bank and credit card account just for paypal transactions and keep your operating capital in your main business account.

Re:Simple solution (3, Insightful)

Rick the Red (307103) | more than 12 years ago | (#2683313)

Open a bank and credit card account just for paypal transactions and keep your operating capital in your main business account.
Isn't it a bit redundant to open a bank account just so you can use it to open a PayPal account?

I've used PayPal and worked as described. I was pleased and would use it more, but I'm at their introductory limit (I don't recall the amount -- $200?) and they won't let me continue without opening a regular PayPal account. OK, fair enough, but they won't let me do it with a simple credit card, it has to be my credit card *and* my checking account. My bank charges $5/month to set up an account for electronic payment, and I'm not about to do that just for PayPal. If I were interested in paying all my bills that way, maybe $5/month would be worth it, or maybe it would piss me off and I'd switch banks. But I'm not interested in electronic bill payment so I don't care if they charge $5 or $500/month.

The $5 aside, why should I give PayPal an open pipeline into my checking account when I intend to pay with my credit card? If they want a backup, I'd be happy to give them two credit card numbers, but I refuse to give them access to my checking account. And I don't see why I should open a 2nd checking account just for them.

I use it... (1)

mackertm (515083) | more than 12 years ago | (#2683202)

...to sell premium accounts on my website ($15/year). I've processed 50-60 such transactions, and have never had a single problem with them freezing my account, and have never heard any complaints from users.

I think it all goes to common sense. If you're dealing with large sums of money (which, clearly, I'm not), then don't deal with people who don't have a solid history processing transactions on PayPal.

Trust and Convenience (5, Interesting)

under_score (65824) | more than 12 years ago | (#2683203)

This is just another issue like immigration or "Homeland Security" which is a balancing act between trust and convenience. Whenever you are operating with a third party, you need to balance trust versus convenience. If you favor trust, you will take more time for your safety: background checks (of people or Paypal), getting legal advice, insurance, anonymity concerns, etc. If you favor convenience, you will worry about reducing processing time, reducing bad experiences, simplifying and generalizing requirements, etc. Occasionally, technology can help increase both trust and convenience. But ultimately, even then, you are balancing trust and convenience against the provider of the technology. For example, open source software can be more trusted than closed source, but only if you forego convenience by actually checking the source!

Any site can be hacked. (1)

purduephotog (218304) | more than 12 years ago | (#2683207)

Any protection can be broken. Anything can be done given enough resources and time- RC5 as an example.

Of course they tend to be a bit jumpy on fraud issues- numerous articles about this happening. [go.com]

Yes it's not a bank. Don't use it if you feel that way. There a reason you'd rather use PayPal instead of a credit card? What, cheaper? Well... Fraud's expensive- paypal has to cover their bases and if that means putting some people's cash in the icebox... that seems to be their choice.

You want to make a difference, choose not to use them. Frankly the protections they have in place are, IMHO, a bit over kill but then again I've never had my money misappropriated by another individual.

Obviously there will be complaints from legit users... but frankly it's got to work, else we'd see a few more of 'but all my cash was taken' etc etc.

Just some thoughts- the business model is successful because they stay 1 step ahead, sometimes, of the people intending to exploit them. They don't hve the infrastructure as credit card companies- based entirely on the 'net.

Who knows- try launching a suit against them for theft of property if they freeze yoru assets...

Re:Any site can be hacked. (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2683265)

try using next time buddy...

Why do you say anything can be broken? (1)

Tom7 (102298) | more than 12 years ago | (#2683312)


I think your sentiment is ok, but I don't agree with you that "any site can be hacked" or "any protection can be broken" or "anything can be done". It is possible to develop systems and then prove them unbreakable/unhackable, even relatively complicated ones. It's just that almost nobody bothers to do this (because ad hoc methods work pretty well and are much cheaper), not that it isn't possible.

Attention: Slashdot editors (4, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2683209)

I represent Fitsworth McGibbons, the legal firm who have been retained to manage legal affairs for Paypal, Incorporated. Negative comments without merit are actionable as slander, and we demand that you remove such objectionable material from your site immediately, or we will be forced to pursue legal action against you on behalf of our clients.

Thank you for your attention with regards to this matter.

P.S. IANAL.

paypal (2)

p4r4d0x (201226) | more than 12 years ago | (#2683210)

I also run a small online company [alphapython.com] that uses PayPal almost exclusively for its payment system. So far I've generally been happy. However, the one email I sent to customer service took a full month to get a response. Phone support was better, however the reps didn't seem like they were too knowledgeable. Needless to say, I'm a little bit wary of having so much money in my account, so I can only suggest sweeping the funds to a real bank account on a regular basis...

The Slashdot Staff: Editors or Janitors? (-1, Offtopic)

The Turd Report (527733) | more than 12 years ago | (#2683211)

Slashdot claims to have several editors on its staff. This is not true. Editors are people who edit. What does it mean to edit? Well, according to 'm-w.com' to edit means: to prepare for publication or public presentation. Does the Slashdot staff do this? Hardly. The readers who submit stories do this; they prepare the stories for slashdot. The staff just cuts and pastes them onto the front page. Editors also check for spelling and grammar. Editors also try to show both sides of a story; the Slashdot staff is some of the most biased people on the net. Just look at the icon for Microsoft posts to see this bias in action.
So, if they are not editors, what are they? They are janitors. Janitors clean up and put things back in place. The Slashdot staff cleans up troll vomit and crap floods. The janitor at my old high school was a big track star 'back in the day' but now he is just an old fool that the kids made fun of. He never really got it. He thought he ran the school just because he had the keys to the front door. It is the same with the Slashdot staff, they used to be important, but now they are just old fools who can't even remember what stories they posted just a few days back. The Slashdot staff also believes that they run the site, but it is OSDN that runs the show. The Slashdot staff doesn't see or hear the kids laughing behind their backs.

Please discuss

I use it (2)

Kallahar (227430) | more than 12 years ago | (#2683212)

I use paypal to handle my banner ad payments. I average $200 a month. I've heard about problems with paypal freezing accounts, so I try to keep the amount stored at paypal to $50 or less. It's so easy to transfer money out to my real bank account that even if they freeze my account, I'm only out $50.

You could even to a daily transfer if you recieve enough money to justify that.

Travis

I've had problems (2)

geekoid (135745) | more than 12 years ago | (#2683214)

when I was purchasing something, the froze the sellers account for reason they wouldn't dislcose.
they also wouldn't give me MY money back.
after about 45 days, during which the seller went through hell, they finally got it solved.
but the fact that they wouldn't let me get MY money back, and just hung on to it really pissed me off. there where about 100 people buys an items for aboiut 50.00 per item, si it was a sizable amount of money they held.

Win-win (3, Insightful)

dfeldman (541102) | more than 12 years ago | (#2683216)

As a customer who was defrauded by a merchant who used Paypal, I believe that Paypal would make good business sense for you and be very bad for your customers. I bought a cordless phone from an ebay merchant who never delivered it, and paid with Paypal about 3 months ago. Paypal only recently *started* to investigate my claim, and I was forced to dispute the charge with my bank instead. Their number (650-251-1100, culled from whois) is not even on their site and the customer service reps are quite useless.

If you ever "go bad" and decide to start screwing people, Paypal is your weapon of choice. If you are a scrupulous merchant, Paypal is probably the best way to go because there will be few complaints on either side of the transaction. As I am also an ebay power seller who uses Paypal, things have been just fine on that side of the table as well.

Just my 2c.

df

Re:Win-win (1)

apc (193970) | more than 12 years ago | (#2683371)

The number not being on their site is a *major* annoyance. My wife had a problem with her Paypal account about six months ago where they froze it for what turned out to be an unbelievably stupid reason. (She had typed in our address in the form 123 Main St. Apt. 23, and the bank had us as 123 MAIN ST #23-- their computer didn't realize this was the same address and thought we were trying to defraud someone) It took us three hours to dig up the number, and they were thoroughly unhelpful when we did-- in the end, she opened up another account rather than deal with them attempting to correct the broken one. Luckily we didn't lose any money in the process.

I rate PayPal a 5 out of 10 (1)

El_Smack (267329) | more than 12 years ago | (#2683218)

I use it, and have not had major problems. No cash missing or the like. However, I can't use my credit card with them, and they can't/won't tell me why. I can tranfer funds from my bank account, but that takes 3-5 days.

Summary: PayPal works for me, but is inconvenient and their customer service is bad. Takes about a week to get an emailed response from them. I use it only when there is no other option.

Re:I rate PayPal a 5 out of 10 (5, Interesting)

NecroPuppy (222648) | more than 12 years ago | (#2683334)

The reason it takes so long to transfer money is because that's what PayPal's primary income source is - interest on your money.

Look at it like this:

You pay money to a merchant, he lets it sit there for a couple of weeks before he pulls it out.

The merchant pays a small amount to PayPal for the convienence, but the big money comes from the interest on the money.

$50 for two weeks might not seem like much, but multiply it by thousands, and it adds up quick.

Consequently, when you want to take money out, they have the transaction take a couple of extra days to squeeze every drop of interest.

PayPal paranoia (2)

ptomblin (1378) | more than 12 years ago | (#2683221)

I got a spam about this web site too. At first I assumed it was one of my users (I have a web site that solicits donations via PayPal) but it turns out that it was just a spam. I'm not sure I believe all the horror stories. I'm paid for hundreds of dollars of auction stuff using PayPal, and I've received over $300 in donations to my site using them (but I send nearly $200 of that to their September 11th fund).

I am now using Amazon's Honor System and C2IT to get donations as well for people who don't trust PayPal, but frankly I don't see what the problem is.

Just Use Me! (0, Funny)

BankofAmerica_ATM (537813) | more than 12 years ago | (#2683222)

Are you fearful of doing business on the Internet? You should be, as hackers, crackers, and other malcontents may be waiting to "intercept" your sensitive private data. That's why you should count on Bank of America ATM for all your private data money storage facility needs. No worries, no hassles, just smooth transactions and plenty of locations near you.

paypal has worked for me (2, Informative)

BrentRJones (68067) | more than 12 years ago | (#2683223)

I have used it several times, without problems to make payments.

The Anti-PayPal website is spamming all the Usenet newsgroups. They had a commercial interest in seeing a paypal competitor called c2it which is CitiBank's micropayment initiative. But c2it asked them to pull the ad. c2it had a link on Friday but not today (Monday)

Consider the source.... (4, Informative)

brassman (112558) | more than 12 years ago | (#2683227)

Considering that at least one of guys who's slamming PayPal is also spamming most of Usenet, I'd be tempted to give them the benefit of the doubt. He's at least one can short of a sixpack.

Re:Consider the source.... (2, Interesting)

ywwg (20925) | more than 12 years ago | (#2683254)

he claims he's not doing the spamming. uh huh.

Running a business with PayPal? (1)

keath_milligan (521186) | more than 12 years ago | (#2683230)

Relying on a third-party (especially an internet company) for all of your transactions sounds like a bad business plan. Why not get a merchant account?

Good, but proceed with caution. (5, Informative)

DrEldarion (114072) | more than 12 years ago | (#2683233)

I have never myself had a problem with PayPal, but others have had some. Some good advice:

1) Transfer all money out of your PayPal account IMMEDIATELY. This doesn't give them a chance to freeze it.

2) Tell your bank to not allow PayPal to withdraw from your account without your authorization. I've heard of them dipping into the checking account if the funds aren't in the PayPal account.

3) Having your customers pay with credit cards... that way if anything happens they can dispute the charges.

Hopefully with these precautions you should be okay.

-- Dr. Eldarion --

Re:Good, but proceed with caution. (5, Insightful)

Syberghost (10557) | more than 12 years ago | (#2683285)

Having your customers pay with credit cards... that way if anything happens they can dispute the charges.

Most customers aren't very savvy. If you tell people "Don't use a check when you do business with me, use a credit card, because I use PayPal, and they might rip you off", they are going to hear "Don't... do business with me... because I... might rip you off."

They don't wanna hear from "this other company is at fault", they're gonna wanna give you money and have you give them goods and/or services, period.

Re:Good, but proceed with caution. (1)

DrEldarion (114072) | more than 12 years ago | (#2683314)

Well, saying something like "Paying with a credit card is highly reccomended when paying through PayPal" wouldn't seem dangerous, but would get the message across, IMO.

Re:Good, but proceed with caution. (1)

cgleba (521624) | more than 12 years ago | (#2683326)

Transferring money out to avoid freezing will not help at ALL.

When I got stiffed by a buyer they transferred the money "automagically" from my bank account without any authorization from me nor any intervention.

No Problems here (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2683234)

I've used paypal for online purchases and I've been very pleased. No problems at all.

Regards

Paypal Sucks! (1)

abesottedphoenix (468980) | more than 12 years ago | (#2683237)

YES! I used to buy things through Paypal quite often. They then asked me to further verify my account by providing them my bank acount info. I did this, seeing as how they didn't make any mistakes with my credit card. After I registered my bank account, I was routinely double charged both on my debit card and in my bank account. I asked them to switch their default to my debit card, and they wouldn't. I asked them then to remove my bank information, which they also wouldn't do. Nor would they pay my overdraft fees that were their fault since they resulted from them double charging me. I closed my account and went back to using money orders and Billpoint.

Redundancy Required (1)

kallistiblue (411048) | more than 12 years ago | (#2683238)

I think that Paypal is a great service. It's fast and simple.
BUT
If that's your only means of accepting payment, you've got a problem. Paypal has a growing universe of users BUT it's still just a fraction of the market. Many people won't go through the hassle of signing up for PayPal and you lose a customer.
Imagine your customer is Homer Simpson.(Here in the US at least half the people are that smart!) Homer knows one way to do things, anything else confuses him. Most people can handle 1 task at a time, but when you give people more tasks, there's no telling what they will end up doing. Asking them to sign-up for a Paypal account and order from you may fry their brain.
Plus, although a merchant account is kind of a pain in the butt, at least you aren't completely dependant on one vendor.(I've seen several horror story's involving Paypall and their vendors.)

I know some people on the inside of paypal (-1, Flamebait)

t0qer (230538) | more than 12 years ago | (#2683248)

They're all too busy playing Q3 or wolf. Look for usurper, he's a paypal sysadmin. If you ever have any problems just search for him on gametiger.net and annoy the shit outta him. I do :P

Getting stiffed on Payment for "electronic items" (1)

Phosphor3k (542747) | more than 12 years ago | (#2683252)

As someone who sells (correction sold) items from Diablo 2 on ebay, relying exculsively on Paypal to receive funds i've a bit to say. I got stiffed when a person whom I sold an item to claimed their credit card they made payment with was stolen. Not only did I lose the payment of 17$ initially recived, but I got hit with a 10$ "chargeback" fee. This fee is charged by Paypal when the buyer claims the payment was sent using a stoeln credit card, and the seller cannot A)prove the item was received by the user, and B)the item was tangable. I payed the fee, but immediatly emptied out my account and cancelled it. For a poor college boy, 17$ is alot of pizza money. Im not gettting burned by paypal again.

Poor college boy (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2683365)

With the amount of time you spend racking up sellable items in Diablo II, you could get a part time job.

Do I trust Spammers? (1)

John Jorsett (171560) | more than 12 years ago | (#2683259)

Someone spammed this site to every newsgroup I visit, including some in the microsoft.public.* domain. Even though they've decried this tactic, I remain suspicious. That said, if what they claim is true, I wouldn't put a lot of trust in Paypal either. I remember when the current laws governing credit cards was first passed. Before that, you were pretty much S.O.L. if a transaction went bad or your card was stolen. It may be nearing time for regulation to enter the picture here as well.

Re:Do I trust Spammers? (1)

Medievalist (16032) | more than 12 years ago | (#2683354)

Do you trust "sourcebank?" I just followed your link to their site and they tried to fill up my harddisk with cookies... I use Cookie Pal, so I get an audible warning each time a cookie is discarded, and that site beeps twenty or thirty times a minute as long as you stay on the page.
There is no excuse for that sort of behavior; it's like a smoker purposely blowing smoke in your face (no offense meant to courteous smokers).
--Charlie

No problems here (1)

WinPimp2K (301497) | more than 12 years ago | (#2683261)

I use PayPal occasionally - mostly to accept payments from people who want to use credit cards rather than checks. I've had no problems.


Now the website mentioned (paypalwarning), was spammed into Usenet in a most obnoxious manner - implying that PayPal was invloved in a bigger scandal than Enron insider trading - (with coverage on all the major news programs etc). Since it also helpfully suggested an alternative to PayPal, I considered it to be a pretty darn worthless bit of FUD.

Has any one tried this company (1)

beer_lover (542714) | more than 12 years ago | (#2683262)

The e-commerce software company [powerfulhosting.com] that I worked for last year used USA Merchants [usamerchants.com] extensively. I never heard of any reports of poor handling of funds or delayed responses. As a company who provides this kind of service grows, this is more and more likely to happen. It seems as if many users choose one or a few company(ies) to handle transactions with. This can only tend to downgrade the level of service available to every one who uses them. I think it would be helpful to try and spread the load a little bit. Just as long as they all shake hands at the checkout line.

Great job Slashdot -- you played into their hands. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2683267)

The site linked in the article (paypalwarning.com) is a hit-based advertising site which has been spamming USENET for several days to drive you their hit count.


Aparently, they wanted to be slashdotted. You just made them a lot of money -- I bet they'll be laughing all the wy to the bank.


I hate spammers, and I'm not too fond of slashdot being used to further their nefarious ends.

PAY PAL HAS BEEN GOOD TO ME (0)

waitdyahoo.com (468104) | more than 12 years ago | (#2683268)

Pay pal has been good to me, but I always recomend keeping good records and recepts, even when using a traditional bank..

If you have good records if the worst should happen you will have the paper work necessary to do what needs to be done. Even if that would include small claims or whatever...

Paypal's debit card (3, Interesting)

strredwolf (532) | more than 12 years ago | (#2683274)

I've kinda sidestepped this issue with my own dealings with Paypal. What I did is:

1. Signed up for a Yahoo! Mail account, and told Paypal to send policy updates and transaction details there. I think alot of these companies want to keep in contact with you so you don't get trapped when they have to change policy.

2. Signed up, and received, the Paypal debit Mastercard. You get this by being a Premier or Business member. This debits straight from the Paypal account. I pay for art prints, supplies, and shipping through Kinkos, Mail Boxes Etc, and even the US Postal Service (yep, they take credit cards now).

Their main aim is to keep cash in the account, so that they can make money off of it. They make no jokes about it either -- clues are there if you go to their money market fund and read through the prospectus.

Also, Paypal *does* insure the accounts though The Traveler's Group (a well known, respected insurance company). They sidestep that issue.

Of course you could use Spamazon (more trouble than it's worth) or Yahoo! PayDirect (less features, more secure, more time consuming). But Paypal's the best bet here.

You get what you pay for... (2)

mbessey (304651) | more than 12 years ago | (#2683275)

Like PayPal says, they're not an escrow service or a bank. If you want to make secure transactions with someone you've never met, you'll need to hire a trusted intermediary.

Would it be nice if Paypal was a little more customer-oriented? Yes, undoubtably. Unfortunately, their business model is all about minimizing costs, so they're really not in the customer-service business.

Really, there's nothing new here. You need to read all the fine print before you sign up for something. A "free" service will always have a lower level of customer service than a service that charges for it.

An interesting issue that's raised in some of the articles is how PayPal is ideal for money laundering. I never really thought about that, but it definitely looks like something that Ashcrft and Co. might decide to look into.

-Mark

Let the seller beware....... (1)

wo1verin3 (473094) | more than 12 years ago | (#2683277)

I sent $200usd to an account on promise of an item (it was a complete scam), the turn around time for delivery was 4-6 weeks. At the end of this six weeks I could not contact the seller. I filed a complaint with paypal and they informed me they will not become involved in disputing a transaction older then 30 days.

I sent a longer, nastier, more descriptive e-mail, a week letter I recieved a note saying the funds were retrieved and credited to my credit card.

I got my money back and I'm happy, and this was a scam, but........ they violated the terms they provide to sellers by pulling the money from their account well after 7-8 weeks from the transaction date.

sometimes the buyer needs protection, which I got, but at the cost of PayPal violating the rights of the seller.

I'm glad i got my money back, but I would never SELL anything with paypal.

Vigorous anti-fraud group... (2, Interesting)

bourne (539955) | more than 12 years ago | (#2683281)

I've never had any problem with PayPal, but my use has been minimal. I think it is worth noting, though, that PayPal has got one of the more vigorous anti-fraud groups around. I think their fraud rate is around 1/2 of 1 percent, which is (IIRC) lower than many credit cards.

Some of this information is from an MSNBC Article [msnbc.com] that showed up on SANS NewsBytes [sans.org] . But I've also heard personal anecdotes from security professionals who'd rather have the Mafia after them than PayPal.

I'm a typical slashdot idiot... (-1, Offtopic)

bytes256 (519140) | more than 12 years ago | (#2683282)

Frist P0st Does paypal use linux? Imagine paypal using a beauwolf cluster... All your paypal are belong to us... Bill Gates is a weenie... Did i forget any?

Paypal ok for me (2)

q2k (67077) | more than 12 years ago | (#2683287)

I've purchasd probably about $500 worth of stuff via paypal, in 7-10 seperate transactions and have not had a problem. I also use them for online membership renewals for a non-profit that I am President of. Granted, I do sweep the money to our bank as soon as it hits $50 - but I have not had any reason to be concerened. YMMV

$12,000 Nearly Stolen - My story (5, Insightful)

LetterJ (3524) | more than 12 years ago | (#2683288)

One of the serious flaws in the Paypal setup is that once Paypal believes that a visitor is you (i.e. logged in) that credentialed visitor has complete access to any accounts that Paypal knows about.

About a month ago, I logged into my email to find email "receipts" for nearly $12K in payments, all of which were made while I was sleeping during the night before. Someone had gotten into my account and transferred to several other people various sums of money ranging from $75 to $5000 per transaction. Most of them were against my credit card, but several were against my personal checking account (used mostly for hobby spending so it didn't have much in it) including the $5000 one. I called my bank to protect the checking account and they were very helpful. The credit card company's fraud detection department called me before I even had a chance to call them. Paypal's fraud detection??? Nothing. When I called them (and getting that phone number is no easy task), that sudden burst of activity hadn't even made anyone curious.

My paypal account was put in restricted status and I detailed exactly which transactions were fraudulent. I moved the remaining checking funds out of the path of paypal and had the credit card number cancelled. You'd think that this would stop anything from going forward and efforts could be concentrated on reversing the transactions. Nope. The middle of the next week brought me a series of automated messages from Paypal indicating that my transactions to withdraw all that money from my checking account failed, but not to worry, they'd try again in 3 days. I called paypal and was told that those attempts were automatic and *nothing* could be done to stop them from completing their course.

My bank has been great, letting those transactions bounce and not charging me a dime for stopped payments or overdrafts related to this. The credit card company is treating it like any other fraud, and while it may take a bit to work out, they're working with my refusal to pay for these transactions. As for Paypal? Their handling of this was totally unprofessional for anyone handling money.

The icing on the cake was the emails I started getting once Paypal took the money back from the recipients. I was being accused of cheating them and being asked to resubmit the payments I owed. When I asked to what address they sent the merchandise (hoping to get the mailing address of the perpetrator), it was implied that it was for something related to warez in an IRC channel. At least one of the recipients still thinks I am just out to cheat him out of his money. So, whoever set this up screwed both sides over.

What about Billpoint? (2)

alen (225700) | more than 12 years ago | (#2683294)

Or Ebay payments, or whatever they call it now? It takes credit cards and echecks and puts the money into your account in a few days. And your customers don't have to be billpoint members to use it. All you do is send them an invoice or they pay through the auction page.

Linux related from their consumer complaints... (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2683298)

Quite Funny:

Consumer reporting scam: Larry Lawrence (12/6/01)

PayPal continues to hold my $600. Illegally.

Several months ago I was offering the general public a free copy of the popular OS called Linux 8.0. This is a freely distributable program under the general license agreement. The customer only had to pay for shipping. ($5.00 US dollars)

I had hundreds of people that responded to the offer and I delivered the program as offered and according to the law. PayPal sent me an e-mail saying that they were going to suspend my account unless I could provide proof that I had permission to distribute this software.

Well, I e-mailed them back several times and explained to them that I did programming on my own and would never consider distributing software that was against any law. PayPal said that I had to prove that I had permission from Microsoft to distribute the software. Microsoft has nothing to do with Linux. Linux has always been to my knowledge, a free OS.

I am e-mailing you first before taking legal action as this is the professional way to do business.

They have closed my account, which is fine accept that they hold my funds without paying me interest on the funds and refuse to return the funds.

Yet Another Personal Story (2, Interesting)

Safiiru (24501) | more than 12 years ago | (#2683301)

I applied for a PayPal account at the suggestion of a friend long before I had any reason to use it. Luckily, I didn't store any money in the account, becaue when I came back several months later to make a purchase, I found that it had been frozen. The "customer support" responses asked me to fax them various forms of identification to make sure that it was, in fact, my bank account - I had registered my checking account as I did not yet have a credit card. This is understandable, in a way - I'm sure there are people who try to use PayPal to steal money from other people's accounts - so I paid a rather high price at my local copy shop to fax them what they needed.

They did not unlock my account, however; their stated reason was that the address on my driver's license did not match that on my bank statement. When I explained that I was a college student, they simply repeated their first request, but now they wanted a credit card statement as well, despite the fact that I never entered (and did not own) a credit card. Without anything else to do, I simply removed all of my banking info from their records. I would have closed my account, but it's not possible to do that when you're suspended.

I have a credit card now, so I could probably get it unlocked. I don't feel like spending the time and money to do that, though, and I don't have enough confidence in PayPal to trust them with my money, either. So I've made do with waiting for people to process personal checks, or paying the extra few dollars for money orders.

just accept credit cards (3, Insightful)

gmhowell (26755) | more than 12 years ago | (#2683317)

I'm not sure how much it costs for online stuff, but for bricks and mortar stores, you can lease the equipment cheap, and the fees per transaction are not much. You are much better protected in this case.

So double check your needs. Maybe you can rationalize accepting credit cards directly.

i'm fine with it... (1)

GrendelT (252901) | more than 12 years ago | (#2683322)

i'm a happy customer... no complaints...

all of those of you who use it to pay for ebay, ubid, etc... how much are your paying for their services?

Beware "Confirmed Address" (1)

dsb3 (129585) | more than 12 years ago | (#2683323)

I recently tried to purchase something via PayPal. According to the site, the person I was sending money to had specified that they'd only accept "Confirmed Addresses" (or was it certified? I don't know). Even though there was no reason for my address to be sent with this transaction (the vendor already had it), Paypal wouldn't let me continue without entering a *credit card number* (for them to use to confirm the address).

After a few rounds of emailing, the vendor was pursuaded to remove that restriction so I could send the funds over.

The issue was avoided, and I'm trying even harder to avoid using paypal whenever I can.

PayPal vs. real payment processing (4, Flamebait)

Adam Wiggins (349) | more than 12 years ago | (#2683332)

PayPal is great for person-to-person transactions, as well as small organizations requesting donations. But for a business of any size, it just doesn't cut it. You need real payment processing, and here's why:
  • Ease of use. Forcing people to sign up for a paypal account before they purchase from you is a sure way to loose sales.
  • Professionalism. When someone wants to sell me something via a PayPal payment, I get cold feet. It's not professional, and it makes me wonder about the trustworthiness of the business, especially if it's an item that costs more than $20 or so.
  • PayPal is vastly more expensive. Last time I checked, they skim something like 5% off your credit card transactions. A good e-commerce merchant account from a real bank should only charge you on the order of 2.5%.
  • Integration. I suppose this goes with the first point, but as a web designer it's an important one for me...I want to build payment handling into my PHP-generated web page, not send the user to an external site.

The only downside to "real" processing is the barrier of entry. You've got to fill out a bit more paperwork, talk to at least one real human (the banker), and there are some startup fees associated with it. But once you are up and running it quickly will become more economical than paypal, because of the difference in transactions rate (5% vs. 2.5% as mentioned above), not to mention you won't loose sales to people that don't want to sign up with PayPal.

And just as you thought I was posting to get karma...no, you guessed it, it's Shameless Plug(tm) time!

The only Open Source payment processor in the business: TrustCommerce [trustcommerce.com]

Mention Slashdot when you sign up for a test account and you'll get a free...um, well nothing, but at least we'll know you're cool. :)

Suckered Once Again! (1, Interesting)

FFFish (7567) | more than 12 years ago | (#2683333)

Slashdot gets suckered once again!

The little shit-squeeze that Slashdot has just graciously provided another bijillion hits to, is getting paid to scare people away from PayPal. He's trying to scrounge CitiBank referrels.

Way to assist the spammers and slimeballs, Slashdot!

PayPal and X.COM (1)

Bartacus (40172) | more than 12 years ago | (#2683340)

I have a PayPal account and since the acquisition of X.COM by PayPal, it has remained dormant (if it even still exists).

On 8 Feb 2000, I opened a checking account with X.COM, the web front to First Western National Bank of La Jara, Colorado. (Incidentally, they had some security problems when they started operation in December 1999.)

It was actually a nice setup, with online checking, printed checks, line of credit, a Visa/bank card, and even high-yield, short term CD's!

Soon after X.COM aqcuired PayPal (March 2000), they stopped offering overdraft protection, and stopped opening new accounts. Then they began to charge a $12 monthly fee to maintain accounts with a balance of less than $100, and finally stopped reimbursing ATM fees. This was September 2000.

X.COM officially closed operations on 9 November 2000, and were still emailing users to clean out their funds by 1 December 2000. The whole mess left a bad taste, and I've absolutely refused to use PayPal since then.

It's a good thing I never actually used the account as my sole checking account! I shudder to think what might've happened if I had started using direct deposit or automatic funds withdrawal.

You only hear the bad news (4, Redundant)

leshert (40509) | more than 12 years ago | (#2683342)

I think that some of the ire toward PayPal is because you only hear about the bad things that happen. When a transaction goes well, no one stands up and screams.

I've been using PayPal for a long time, and I've never had a problem with it. I wish I could say the same for some of the vendor sites out there (e.g., I'll never buy again from half.com, but that's another story).

In case anyone's wondering, this isn't astroturf support. I'm a real person [lesher.ws] who just happens to like PayPal.

Tim

Pay Pal Dangerous (1)

BatouOfTheNexus (541920) | more than 12 years ago | (#2683347)

My boss recently had his paypall account hacked. The hacker changed the password and the email on the account, and has charged all the credit cards to the max. Pay Pal has not even contacted my boss after weeks of him trying to contact them every day. I just removed my credit card from my account. Considering their we can't help you policy, I don't think I'll be useing them much if at all again.

I'm sorry, but MS says... (2, Funny)

Nikau (531995) | more than 12 years ago | (#2683352)

I was looking through the Wall of Shame on the PayPalWarning site, and saw this. It was just too funny... So I'm going to post it here for everyone else's amusement. It's entirely possible this is a hoax, but still...

I wonder... When did Linus Torvalds give up the rights to his OS?

Consumer reporting scam: Larry Lawrence (12/6/01) PayPal continues to hold my $600. Illegally. Several months ago I was offering the general public a free copy of the popular OS called Linux 8.0. This is a freely distributable program under the general license agreement. The customer only had to pay for shipping. ($5.00 US dollars) I had hundreds of people that responded to the offer and I delivered the program as offered and according to the law. PayPal sent me an e-mail saying that they were going to suspend my account unless I could provide proof that I had permission to distribute this software. Well, I e-mailed them back several times and explained to them that I did programming on my own and would never consider distributing software that was against any law. PayPal said that I had to prove that I had permission from Microsoft to distribute the software. Microsoft has nothing to do with Linux. Linux has always been to my knowledge, a free OS. I am e-mailing you first before taking legal action as this is the professional way to do business. They have closed my account, which is fine accept that they hold my funds without paying me interest on the funds and refuse to return the funds.

Use a credit merchant. (4, Informative)

Elwood P Dowd (16933) | more than 12 years ago | (#2683360)

Paypal only makes sense if you're pretty low volume. If you're making any real money with your business it's always safer to sign up with visa/amex/whoever and accept credit card payments. It's not much more expensive than paypal and it's a lot safer for both customers and merchants.

I have had problems...... (3, Interesting)

jsimon12 (207119) | more than 12 years ago | (#2683361)

I have had them freeze my account and hold payments (supposedly randomly), but I have had them do it more then a few times. I am by no means someone I would consider suspcious, I occsionally sell extra things I have on eBay and use PayPal for payments, also occsionally buy things and use PayPal to pay.

But on 3 separtate occasions I have had payments held, and also on one occasion I have had my account frozen. And yes it did take me FOREVER to get a hold of anyone on the phone (thank god for "free" LD on my cell). I was told it was a "routine" random freeze, blah blah blah, several days later they "unfroze" my account. And yes it was a major and total bitch, but there really aren't any other shows in town, so what do you do?

Alternatives? (1)

IanO (21302) | more than 12 years ago | (#2683363)

I've used Paypal as a buyer on occassion and I have had successful transactions but I have heard several horror stories. Particularly with international customers trying to get money transferred back to their own personal accounts.

In light of this, what other online alternatives are there for international money exchange?

I was frozen by paypal (1)

wikki (13091) | more than 12 years ago | (#2683364)

Recently I had a problem with UPS delivering a package to a customer off of ebay. The customer put in a claim against me with paypal, and my account was frozen for about 2 months. I wrote to them almost daily and rarely got a response back from them. I searched their website for a phone number but was unable to find a customer service number for them. I finally did get it resolved, but only because the person who filed the claim failed to follow up after 2 months. To top this all off a month after this was resolved, and after the customer had cashed the refund check I sent him, he put in a dispute with his credit card which again put my paypal account on hold. This was resolved by faxing a copy of the cashed check to paypal.

One thing I will say favorably is that it does state in their terms that even if you owe them money they will not take it out of your bank account. THey will only go through legal channels to get the money.

Recommend ProPay as an alternative.. (1)

xTK-421x (531992) | more than 12 years ago | (#2683377)

I've heard some good things about ProPay.

http://www.propay.com [propay.com]

It doesn't require users who are paying you to create an account, but it does have a higher per transaction fee.

try another online clearing house (1)

mwhahaha (172475) | more than 12 years ago | (#2683381)

I do some work for one on the side, http://www.echo-inc.com [echo-inc.com] . They allow transactions with credit cards and checks online. They are also working on getting some shopping carts with direct transactions enabled in them. I beleive they charge like $15/month for an account and they have been around for a very long time. If you are looking in to doing business online dealing with cc/checks, i recomend looking into them.

-mwhahaha

Uhm, duh. (2)

pi_rules (123171) | more than 12 years ago | (#2683383)

Okay, I took a gander at the horror stories and it seems that most of them flow along as such:

Buyer PayPal's somebody money for good/services. PayPal withdraws money from Buyer's bank account, holds it and places it within the Seller's PayPal account. Seller sees money in PayPal account and then sweeps it into their own bank account. Buyer never gets goods and complains to PayPal.

Well, duh. PayPal no longer has the money, why in the heck would they start shelling out money from their own pocket becuase -you- purchased something from a crook?

Use your heads... if you don't feel comfortable sending money to somebody use an escrow service or take your risks. Personally I think it's a great service. I mostly used it though to split bills w/ my roomate. No checks, no running to the bank, and I knew the guy wasn't going to hawk my half of the rent and run out on me.

PayPal's not trying to rip anybody off here. No evil corporation trying to take all of your money, no conspiracy theory and no black helicopters. Move along n ow.

why Paypal sucks so bad (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2683390)

read this.

http://www.freedomhound.com/PaypalFraud.html

Gift Sales and PayPal (3, Informative)

Kphrak (230261) | more than 12 years ago | (#2683393)

If you sell normal items with PayPal, I can say that I've never had a problem with it. I know a few people on here have horror stories to tell, but I really can't.


If you are selling anything where the sender is most likely going to specify a different address (i.e. gift sales), DON'T USE PAYPAL UNLESS YOU'RE DESPERATE. PayPal insists that the two addresses agree. I did a payment system for a Chicago popcorn business, whose main revenue comes in at Christmas when everyone's buying those big cans of caramel corn to send to their relatives. At that time, PayPal allowed different shipping addresses.


As Christmas season started, they changed their policy and stopped allowing it, basically axe-murdering my neat little scripts. :\ I wrote a work-around so they could specify their shipping address on our site, then buy the popcorn using PayPal...but it's ugly and I don't recommend it.


So if you're a gift company...be smart...keep in mind the constraints you have to work within if you're going to do a front-end to PayPal. PayPal doesn't work for everyone, although it can be really useful sometimes.

Load More Comments
Slashdot Account

Need an Account?

Forgot your password?

Don't worry, we never post anything without your permission.

Submission Text Formatting Tips

We support a small subset of HTML, namely these tags:

  • b
  • i
  • p
  • br
  • a
  • ol
  • ul
  • li
  • dl
  • dt
  • dd
  • em
  • strong
  • tt
  • blockquote
  • div
  • quote
  • ecode

"ecode" can be used for code snippets, for example:

<ecode>    while(1) { do_something(); } </ecode>
Sign up for Slashdot Newsletters
Create a Slashdot Account

Loading...