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U.S. Penalizes Ukraine for Abetting 'Piracy'

michael posted more than 12 years ago | from the communists-a-little-too-free-for-us dept.

News 671

The Politech mailing list has a note and follow-up on new trade restrictions levied against Ukraine, since they haven't complied with the U.S.'s demand for 'an optical media licensing regime.' John Gilmore's response puts the issue in perspective. Update: 01/03 23:08 GMT by M : The RIAA has a press release about the trade penalties and response to Gilmore.

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uh huh huh huh (-1)

The Turbinator (544647) | more than 12 years ago | (#2780797)

...you said penalize.

Re:uh huh huh huh (-1)

Fecal Troll Matter (445929) | more than 12 years ago | (#2780807)

MMM, your FP is mouth watering.

Are you washing your ass?

Re:uh huh huh huh (-1)

The Turbinator (544647) | more than 12 years ago | (#2780842)

That, my friend, is the golden shower of anti-terrorism!
My ass feels all warm and slippery for you.

Looks like this is my second FP of the day... (-1)

The Turbinator (544647) | more than 12 years ago | (#2780820)

Freedom fighters rejoice! Terrorist scum and Anomymous cock smoochers cower in fear!

booyah (-1, Offtopic)

MastahTrollah (543448) | more than 12 years ago | (#2780799)

frist post..

I want everyone's opinion... (-1)

Tasty Beef Jerky (543576) | more than 12 years ago | (#2780817)

What does everyone think of the name Kaeleigh?

Re:I want everyone's opinion... (-1)

The Turbinator (544647) | more than 12 years ago | (#2780862)

I think it's a cute name.
A while back, I was fucking a girl with that name. God, she was gorgeous! Fucking model material.
She was too whiney though. Always about her.. Me me me. It got old after a while.

Looks like the US... (5, Interesting)

UberOogie (464002) | more than 12 years ago | (#2780829)

... is going after targets it can afford to bully. I'd like to see them try that with China, or India.

Re:Looks like the US... (3, Informative)

Gaccm (80209) | more than 12 years ago | (#2780869)

actually according to the article, china already has it implemented.

Re:Looks like the US... (0, Offtopic)

hex1848 (182881) | more than 12 years ago | (#2780940)

you mean looks like microsoft is getting the us to go after targets it can afford to bully.

Re:Looks like the US... (0)

Zarathustra.fi (513464) | more than 12 years ago | (#2780984)

Hey US, why not bully to the E.U. about some other ridiculous issue. Hey, come on? Oh, you're suddenly too afraid, since we might actually return fire and put up another trade embargo (like we did for your silly bananas some time ago)..

Re:Looks like the US... (1)

speedfreak_5 (546044) | more than 12 years ago | (#2781062)

Mabye that's what the country needs. Some other country or union with just as much influence to slap the government in the face and say "hey! stop acting stupid and see what you're doing to the world!" And that won't happen because we all don't have millions of dollars to "donate" to the political parties like the RIAA, MPAA and other various 4-letter organisations.

Re:Looks like the US... (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2781102)

Yeah, you fucking idiot. The US imports almost three times the goods from Europe that we export. All we'd have to do is place import restrictions on your Eurotrash and your economy would be down the shitter. Oh wait, look at the Euro, 89 cents to one US Dollar. You assholes ought to thank us for saving your asses in WWII and rebuilding thereafter, but your incomprehensible attitude seems to blame us for everyone's problems. That's all you are, a sack of shit.

Double Standard (3, Insightful)

zmokhtar (539671) | more than 12 years ago | (#2780830)

I'd like to see the U.S. implement something like this before they go shoving it down other people's throats.

If don't want something here in America, why should we want it for countries abroad?

Re:Double Standard (3, Interesting)

BlaKnail (545030) | more than 12 years ago | (#2780880)

It's not a double standard. Any CD-R manufactured in the US is given a serial number that has the potential to be traced. The Ukraine is printing CDs that would be untraceable, hence the gov't want to extend its protective eye over foreign manufactured goods, and if they don't comply....push huge taxes and tariffs on them.

Re:Double Standard (0)

the_2nd_coming (444906) | more than 12 years ago | (#2780979)

I wonder why most of the world hates the U.S.

Re:Double Standard (2, Funny)

Dutchmaan (442553) | more than 12 years ago | (#2781005)

"the gov't want to extend its protective eye" Just like the protective eye of Sauron!

Re:Double Standard (1)

Vegeta99 (219501) | more than 12 years ago | (#2780884)

Here's a reason:

Because if the rest of the world is already doing it (as per our forcing), then it would be much easier to pass the law here. Then, the media companies have won.

Re:Double Standard (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2781086)

How to posts like this get modded up? Do the moderators not read the articles? IT IS ALREADY IMPLEMENTED HERE.

Umm... (1)

gooberguy (453295) | more than 12 years ago | (#2780835)

Shouldn't the government be concerned about things other than piracy in these times? How is putting trade restrictions on the Ukraine going to help protect people from terrorism? It seems to be YAWT$ (Yet Another Waste of Tax Dollars)

D/\ Gooberguy

More bad logic (2, Redundant)

gfxguy (98788) | more than 12 years ago | (#2780881)

So your argument is that no one else in the U.S. government, besides military personel, should do their jobs until "the war on terror" is over?

That's ridicules! So the police should stop chasing thieves and rapists until all the murderers are caught? Every one that needs to be doing something about the war is doing it, all the rest have their jobs to do, too.

I don't agree with this policy, but I don't like using the terrorist attack to be a scape-goat for everything else, either.

Re:Umm... (1)

torqer (538711) | more than 12 years ago | (#2780895)

Ummm is certainly correct. Perhaps you aren't aware of this, but the government does have other duties than the "war on terrorism." Hopefully an organization as large as the US government can perform two task at once. George W might not be able to, but certainly the government can be concerned two things at the same time. Otherwise we'd all be waiting at the DMV for a LOOOONG time to get our liscences renewed because of the war on terrorism.

Re:Umm... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2781012)

Perhaps you aren't aware of this, but the government does have other duties than the "war on terrorism."

Perhaps you aren't aware of this, but some of us [anti-state.com] actually don't like the government's "other duties".

Otherwise we'd all be waiting at the DMV for a LOOOONG time to get our liscences renewed because of the war on terrorism.

Or we could just get rid [anti-state.com] of licenses entirely.

Re:Umm... (2)

Computer! (412422) | more than 12 years ago | (#2781026)

Perhaps you aren't aware of this, but the government does have other duties than the "war on terrorism."

Granted, but I can't think of anything more pressing in foriegn policy right now. Although, seeing as how the US is the premiere content provider to the world, I could see the priority level for this. I'm just curious as to whether or not this came to a vote, and if so, which of our representatives needs a new job?

Re:Umm... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2781107)

Ohh so we can do two things at once, but not two things in foriegn policy. Thanks for the clarification, I never thought about it that way.

does this work? (2, Interesting)

Syre (234917) | more than 12 years ago | (#2780839)

The US wants every replicating machine to put a tracking number on CDs showing what machine made it.

I don't see why a bootlegger couldn't just put a fake number anyway.

Will requiring some number to be added to CDs (not even a serialized number, just a number) really do anything? I don't see why it would.

english translation: (2)

jeffy124 (453342) | more than 12 years ago | (#2780843)

The US had requested that the Ukraine implement the "optical media licensing regime" that would prevent piracy of things like DVDs. Ukraine didnt comply, so the US levied a tariff on important things like oil, shoes, and paper imported from the Ukraine to put pressure on the Ukraine to implement that "optical media licensing regime"

I'm not sure I see the issue.. (1)

dagoalieman (198402) | more than 12 years ago | (#2780851)

The US wants the Ukraine to help stop piracy of software, music, etc. That certainly seems reasonable to me.

It also seems reasonable to me that the Ukraine deals with it within the scopes of their law. The Ukraine may or may not have done this, I have no clue of law outside of the US. So why are we getting so upset about this?

Gilmore mentions that coding thing that they want to use with optical media. Granted I don't understand it, but if it's really as bad as he says it is, the coding idea will never fly. People will turn further towards piracy, and EVENTUALLY the industries will give up on the idea. Of course, we said that about copy-protection, and the RIAA is getting more and more worked up on that.

So again, what's the real issue here? Is it the overreaching of the RIAA to protect their works (that I'm not seeing anything TOO unreasonable, just little bit of), or the Ukrainians flying the bird at the RIAA?

Re:I'm not sure I see the issue.. (2)

jmccay (70985) | more than 12 years ago | (#2780909)

The only problem with that idea is that things tend to get really worse before they get better.

OT-Re:I'm not sure I see the issue.. (1)

dagoalieman (198402) | more than 12 years ago | (#2781018)

For whatever reason, your statement just reminded me of good ol' Monty Python...

"I'm not dead yet."
"I'll get better."
(mumble mumble) *THUMP*

Let us not have this happen to us.

Re:I'm not sure I see the issue.. (4, Insightful)

KjetilK (186133) | more than 12 years ago | (#2781080)

Well, imagine being a journalist working in an oppressing regime. Then, you get some information that may open the eyes of the outside world. Arguably, the murder of Stephen Biko and the subsequent release of the details had such an effect.

Obviously, you have to release the information anonymously, othervice they would kill you.

Unfortunately, all the paper in the world is marked. The manufacturer has inserted a unique watermark, and they have extensive records of who buys each sheet of paper. If the secret police get their hands on any of the documents you distribute, it will point right back at you. You'll be dead.

To figure out who the "pirates" are, this is what RIAA et al. wants, even if they don't dare state it up front. They want extensive records of all the CDs, so that when a "pirated" CD is found, it points right back at everyone involved, and they can be nailed for it.

I think this small label is not going to do much to achieve that goal, but it is really beside the point.

And so what? Paper is one thing, CDs is an entirely different matter?

OK, so you get a piece of footage. Compressed down to 650 MB (by Ogg Tarkin... :-) ), you can burn it on CDs and distribute it to have it aired worldwide.

Unfortunately, because RIAA needs protection from "pirates" you can't do that. You can't do that to free your country from oppression.

OK, this is a bit far-fetched perhaps, but you never know if this could happen.

Uhhh... wait a second... (5, Insightful)

Bonker (243350) | more than 12 years ago | (#2780852)

Sayeth Gilmore...

Next thing we'll have telephone answering machines recording what phone numbers people are calling from....video libraries recording who
borrowed each book and when.....Internet ads that track and record who saw them...hotel room doors that record every time each person goes in or out...cellphones that report every move we make to the authorities...tollbooths that record every car that goes through them... guards in every airport demanding to see 'our papers' before we are permitted to travel in our own country...


Hmmm... Caller ID machines, Doubleclick.net, and Electronic, DB controlled locks at hotels and Post 9-11 'random checks' at airports.

Gilmore's being sarcastic, isn't he?

Remember that the U.S. stoped being 'Of the people, for the people a long time ago'. It's been 'Of the corporate interest for the corporate intrest for quite a while... at least since the Vietnam War, (The Johnsons had a significant stake in Bell Helicopter, which profited outrageously from the war) and probably before, but I'm not a good enough history student to tell you how far back.

I know a 'Sherman Act' would sure as hell never make it out of committee in today's congress.

Well, when it gets too repressive, now I know where I can go. They speak Russian in the Ukraine, right?

Re:Uhhh... wait a second... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2780959)

How is this trash modded up? This is completely offtopic.

Re:Uhhh... wait a second... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2781016)

it is only off topic for retarded moderators like yourself who can not handle natural off shoots from a main topic like the parent post has done.

talking about the underlying reasons that the US did what it did is just as on topic as paroting what the story said, and it makes the conversation more interesting.

Re:Uhhh... wait a second... (2, Insightful)

the_2nd_coming (444906) | more than 12 years ago | (#2780990)

Canada is pretty good when it comes to consumers' rights also.

Re:Uhhh... wait a second... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2781063)

They speak Ukrainian in the Ukraine. Ukrainian is indeed quite similar to Russian, but as I remember saying that Ukrainian is the same as Russian is very offensive to Ukrainian.

Amrica, land of the freedom... (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2780853)

...my ass. If only you americans knew how your government plays with other nations, you would stop saying that you were attacked because those middle eastern mad men were jealous of your freedom.

No, I am not from middle east, and before calling me off-topic please think how uncle Sam plays with the other kids.

Re:Amrica, land of the freedom... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2780904)

Before I modded you off-topic I thought about how this post is unrelated to the article at hand. Thanks, though!

Re:Amrica, land of the freedom... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2780928)

If you don't like how we play, leave our play ground, or stay and pay up! You're just jealous because you want to live in a country where the country can kick anyone's *ss.

You can't kick Canada's ass (0, Offtopic)

Togo_Frumblefoot (547141) | more than 12 years ago | (#2781024)

haha crazy yankee

United States Iron Fist? (4, Insightful)

Wire Tap (61370) | more than 12 years ago | (#2780863)

Is this just another example of the All Powerful United States flexing its mighty iron fist around smaller countries that have almost no means by which to fight back?

Or, is this a legitimate action? Why not protect people who work hard to make their intellectual products? Does information really want to be free, and, if it does, should it be? Who is to decide?

I often find myself torn between these two schools of thought, as I believe that the IP could be integral to the lives of those who do not have the resources to pay for it, but, then again, does that justify the essential theft of such IP? Chairity theft, perhaps?

It's all very complex. Any opinions? I'd hate it if the US hurt more innocent people, only because of something as seemingly insignificant as IP law.

Re:United States Iron Fist? (2, Insightful)

GeorgieBoy (6120) | more than 12 years ago | (#2780930)

While this may seem like a bully move (the US *is* obviously using its power to its advantage) it's legitimate to go after such things - most people completely disregard the notion of copyrights. It wouldn't be shocking to see people in other nations such as Ukraine not just disregard commericial software licenses, but also open-source licenses like GPL as well. It's potentially a greater issue than just people copying Windows, etc.

They may be using Ukraine as a sort of gateway to Russia for future pressure, since Russia has just as big a problem with illegal copying of software (I really dislike the term "piracy").

I don't really agree with what is being proposed here with tracking numbers on media, but I do think steps should be made to try and curb the rampant disregard for software licenses.

Re:United States Iron Fist? (2, Insightful)

NoMoreNicksLeft (516230) | more than 12 years ago | (#2781017)

As long as they don't export them to the US, it's none of our damn business. The Ukraine is a "sovereign nation" and the only laws that apply are their own. If they choose to not implement idiotic IP laws, not only do I say more power to them, but humbly ask if I could apply for citizenship there.

And as for the accusation that they disregard the GPL, I find this ridiculous. It's only in a country like this, that a corporation like M$ might want to violate the GPL. Some "russian software pirate" loses nothing by pointing a customer toward the source code, or burning it onto a second CD for them (and charging them a fee for costs). You have some serious issues.

Re:United States Iron Fist? (1)

Neon Spiral Injector (21234) | more than 12 years ago | (#2781084)

burning it onto a second CD for them (and charging them a fee for costs)

With those said costs being lower than here because they don't have a regime controlling the licencing and production of optical media.

Re:United States Iron Fist? (1)

Score Whore (32328) | more than 12 years ago | (#2781106)

The US saying to implement such laws or we're going to start charging you a huge assed tariff is a perfectly legit thing to do. It's no different than any stupid-dotter saying "don't put copy protection on your CD or I'm not going to buy any more CD from your company." Sounds like a good idea to me.

Re:United States Iron Fist? (1)

the_2nd_coming (444906) | more than 12 years ago | (#2781034)

so tell copyright holders not to sell a product int he Ukrain. if it does get in there, there is no lost sale since they were never selling in that country, and it leaves the US out of the business of international corperations.

Re:United States Iron Fist? (2, Interesting)

st0rmshad0w (412661) | more than 12 years ago | (#2781065)

And it is perfectly reasonable for countries (Russia for example) who's laws state that making a back-up copy is perfectly legal to demand that the US force software makers to make sure their products are copyable. The US isn't the whole planet, nor is it the world government.

Re:United States Iron Fist? (2)

Zen Mastuh (456254) | more than 12 years ago | (#2781014)

You said:

Why not protect people who work hard to make their intellectual products?
Unfortunately, this action doesn't do that. The artists got screwed when they signed the contract before they recorded the album/film/etc... This action serves to protect the leech class. Even then, it doesn't really protect them unless all Ukranian manufacturers are strictly pirates. With the ubiquity of CD burners, I doubt that to be true--what need is there for a centralized pirating operation when all the equipment has been decentralized?

In summary, this is just yet another instance of the U.S.A. bullying a small country (Iran, Iraq, Libya, Panama, Grenada, Lebanon, Somalia, Cuba, Colombia, ad vomitum...) so leaders of other small countries can see what happens if they don't comply when asked. Such a leader gets to choose between "Sign this piece of paper" or "get assassinated by the CIA or a CIA-supported group and vilified posthumously by American media". Frankly I'm amazed that the Ukraine is standing up for freedom.

Oh, great! (1)

Vegeta99 (219501) | more than 12 years ago | (#2780865)

It seems as if the article has been slashdotted already. From what I get from the article blurb, and the reasoning from the US gummint's site, it looks as if the lobbyist bitch because the Ukraine won't protect IP (read: Arrest people like Dimitry Skyarlov for no reason). So what do we do? Don't let them trade with the Ukraine! I don't know whether that's to shut up the IP mongrels in the US, or punish the Ukraine. If it's to shut the IP mongrels up, it's a good thing. If it's meant to punish another country because it has different views and values of what is correct than our government is, then it is an outrage! As soon as I can view this article, I'll decide what to do. I will probably be writing my representatives.

Are color laser printers really tagging? (5, Interesting)

Deagol (323173) | more than 12 years ago | (#2780877)

From the article:

"Reader, in case you didn't know, every color Xerox machine and color laser printer prints the serial number of the machine on every page they produce, covertly hidden in the output, under a long-standing private "arrangement" with the US Treasury Department. I have been unable to confirm whether this is also true of black-and-white xerox machines."

I'm as paranoid as the next PGP-using, hard-drive encrypting, tin-foil-hat-wearing guy. BUT... I have a really hard time buying this, and I cold not locate any creditble documentation on Google.

Anyone have any good links?

Re:Are color laser printers really tagging? (3, Informative)

Wntrmute (18056) | more than 12 years ago | (#2780977)

Yes. [slashdot.org]

Re:Are color laser printers really tagging? (5, Interesting)

wolf- (54587) | more than 12 years ago | (#2780993)

[1] http://www.jj-johnson.com/copiers2.htm
[2] http://www.jj-johnson.com/copiers.htm
[3] http://www.c-prompt-dev.com/bulletin.0119.htm
[4] http://www.naqp.org/staging1/press/copier_fraud.ht ml
[5] http://www.parascope.com/articles/0197/xerox.htm

Back in late 1998, a fella by the name of Michael Castle, I think he was a republican from the north east, said that his committee was considering tagging laser printers the same way that color copiers are already tagged. Search yahoo or google looking for color copier references instead of laser printers, might help a bit in your results.

Uh, the Ukraine? (1)

joebp (528430) | more than 12 years ago | (#2780885)

Since when was the Ukraine the copyright violation capital of the world?

If they really wanted to attack copyright violation, they're take action against other, generally eastern, countries. But, no, the trade links there are too valuable so instead they've taken this token and paper tiger-esque action against a non-major country (as far as copyright violation is concerned).

Hmmm... (1, Troll)

Reality Master 101 (179095) | more than 12 years ago | (#2780886)

Skipping to the bottom, we see the phrase "...in short, we'll be living in a POLICE STATE."

In short, that's the sign that you can pretty much disregard anything he says. His tin foil is strapped too tightly to his head.

Why am I not suprised that Michael thinks this guy's ravings are "putting things in perspective"? Yeah, that's a nice, unbiased analysis of the pros and cons of balancing the rights of the music industry with fair use rights.

Re:Hmmm... (2, Insightful)

goldspider (445116) | more than 12 years ago | (#2780998)

Well using Vulcan logic, we can all see that Slashdot dogma dictates that the needs of the one (that 15 year old who's right it is to download free music/software) outweigh the needs of the many (artists, programmers, and all employees of the music/software industry working hard to make a living by SELLING a product).

Oh wait, something about that logic looks a little flawed...

Re:Hmmm... (1)

the_2nd_coming (444906) | more than 12 years ago | (#2781099)

actualy, the vulcan logic is the otherway around, Kirck(sp?) actual said "the needs of the few out weigh the needs of the many" (I belive that was the search for spock.

the converse was said in the wrath of Kahn when spock died to save the enterprise.

Seriously (3, Insightful)

sulli (195030) | more than 12 years ago | (#2781004)

John, I love ya, good article, Ukraine is right, BUT:

Massive loss of privacy != POLICE STATE.

In police states they throw you in jail for political speech, shoot you randomly, whip you with a rattan cane, cut off your hands, etc, usually in a highly arbitrary fashion. This is NOT what is happening here. Claiming that it is severely weakens your case.

Re:Hmmm... (2)

Happy Monkey (183927) | more than 12 years ago | (#2781048)

If you hadn't skipped to the bottom, you would have noticed that he was drawing a parallel between tracking CD-Rs and puting a tracable serial number on every sheet of paper, printer, and printing press. This parallel is not very far fetched, as more and more information is distributed digitally.

Re:Hmmm... (1, Flamebait)

jcr (53032) | more than 12 years ago | (#2781054)

Skipping to the bottom, we see the phrase "...in short, we'll be living in a POLICE STATE."

In short, that's the sign that you can pretty much disregard anything he says. His tin foil is strapped too tightly to his head.


John Gilmore knows whereof he speaks. You clearly don't.

-jcr

Right back into the swing of things (5, Insightful)

nochops (522181) | more than 12 years ago | (#2780888)

And here we (USA) go, getting right back into the swing of things, just like pre 9/11/01.

I find it fascinating that people like the Bush family can't figure out why America is globally hated.

"Sorry, you are not allowed to have strong encryption, supercomputers, nuclear weapons, shoes, food, oil, etc. Why? Because we are the USA, and we said so........"

(...a few years later...)

"Boo-hoo....I don't understand why these people are so mad at us...I don't understand why they would blow up our landmarks..."

Re:Right back into the swing of things (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2781038)

"Boo-hoo....I don't understand why these people are so mad at us...I don't understand why they would blow up our landmarks..."

It's Because They Envy Our Way Of Life (tm).

If their leaders could push around lots of other countries while encouraging their peasants, er, citizens to be self-righteous about their god-given rights to cheap SUVs, oil, TVs, and fast-food, then they would be just as peace-loving as we are. Alas, they just don't seem to have gotten the hang of that. Maybe if we bomb some more civilians from a safe distance, it will help them learn.

History repeats itself (5, Insightful)

sabinm (447146) | more than 12 years ago | (#2780889)

Isn't is ironic that the one tactic that drew the American colonies to revolt against England, America reuses again and again to gain leverage over countries dependent on American trade?

The only thing that this will cause is Ukraine products being shipped somewhere else. This doesn't sound too good, since the former Soviet Union prevented OPEC from cutting production on oil, thereby giving us low gas prices ($.99 where i live)just one month ago!

Hope this doesn't mean that my gas prices will go up to subsidise software companies' "right to innovate"

Re:History repeats itself (1)

kitts (545683) | more than 12 years ago | (#2781069)

Not really ironic, it's the way that empires maintain authority on a global scale. When they're not pounding rubble into dust in countries like, oh, say, Afghanistan.

What would actually be ironic would be if the rhetoric was the same, and people openly believed it.

The RIAA says... (4, Funny)

EllisDees (268037) | more than 12 years ago | (#2780891)

We Love [riaa.com] it!

Human Rights vs. IP (5, Insightful)

drenehtsral (29789) | more than 12 years ago | (#2780894)

Funny that we'll impose terriffs against the Ukraine at the whim of the RIAA to protect the profits of Time Warner, but we won't lift a finger against China in the trade department even when they go around torturing and shooting political dissidents.

I guess it shows what the U.S. is about, eh?

Re:Human Rights vs. IP (5, Interesting)

mickeyreznor (320351) | more than 12 years ago | (#2780920)

not to mention that china is practically the capital of copyright infrigement.

Re:Human Rights vs. IP (1)

WildBeast (189336) | more than 12 years ago | (#2780973)

If I lived in a country with 1 billion people, I'm not sure I'd care about human rights. I'd probably say : "hey they killed a few guys, hopefully we'll be able to eat more food"

yeah everyone knows that the U.S. is about money. But hey, that strategy worked fine and continues to work. You want someone to blame? Blame the whole planet

Effects of such actions.... (1)

sonicsft (195337) | more than 12 years ago | (#2780900)

Does anyone have any facts on what type of effects on countries these types of actions have? How much money will this cost Ukraine, how many jobs will be lost in Ukraine. When people lose their jobs they obviously don't make money, and in some areas I can see this leading to starvation. Could the U.S. governments(or rather its lobbiest's demmands) now be responsible for the starvation and possible death of Ukranian workers, only so that they will put tiny little ID markings on their CD media?!

-sonicsft

Ukraina has it's problems too (2)

KjetilK (186133) | more than 12 years ago | (#2780906)

Before everyone runs off to seek political asylum in Ukraina, do note that the authorities there have quite a lot to answer for. I've posted about that before [slashdot.org] .

But you know, the Ukrainians could throw those out, and that could help.

IFPI - a new acronym to hate (1)

b0r0din (304712) | more than 12 years ago | (#2780908)

The schemes were invented by IFPI, the International Federation of the
Phonographic Industry, the international version of the RIAA.

Its chair, Hilkari Rosenski, was quoted as saying "We ownz j00, Ukraine!"

Which reminds me, where's a good Yo Momma, Osama game for Hillary Rosen when you really need one? You can throw burnt CD-Rs at her while she tries to stamp your forehead with a fiery DCMA brand.

Frightening (5, Insightful)

DarkZero (516460) | more than 12 years ago | (#2780917)

I know some people might say I'm overreacting, but this honestly scares me. Over the course of this week, we've given full trade access to China, despite the fact that it is a communist nation of the worst kind that openly hunts, tortures, and kills people for belonging to a religion that isn't sanctioned by the government or coming anywhere near defying the government's will, and we've punished Ukraine for abetting piracy.

For Americans, we are now living under a government that cares far more about the profits of groups like the RIAA and MPAA than it does about human lives and our country's base freedoms. This week, it has rewarded one country for cruelty, torture, murder, and oppression, while punishing another for having a potential small effect on industry groups that make large contributions to political campaigns. The DMCA is a stupid and dangerous peace of legislation, and the SSSCA might fully qualify as evil... but these trade decisions belong to a whole new level of sick that nothing else on Slashdot has ever brought up.

The most powerful government in the world openly caring more about profits than about human lives... welcome to the world of several of the dystopian future sci-fi novels you've read.

Re:Frightening (1)

embee232323 (323053) | more than 12 years ago | (#2780958)

Can you honestly say that you didn't think this was gonna happen, though?

Re:Frightening (2, Insightful)

okigan (534681) | more than 12 years ago | (#2780989)

I really do not think things are like that.
The US goverment (as all other goverments) is a big layzy beast, which does not move until is poked,
What is REALLY scarry (and frightening as you noted)
that some organization (RIAA and/or MPAA ???) capable
influencing the goverment in such great extent
(and boy as you noted the goverment moved pretty quickly).

Still I think the frightening part is that organizations got the goverment in their pocket, and
nobody talks about it !!!

just my $0.02

Re:Frightening (5, Insightful)

dillon_rinker (17944) | more than 12 years ago | (#2781044)

I really do not think things are like that.
Really? Which part?
- Totalitarian government in China
- Human rights abuses in China
- China recently given MFN trading status
- Ukraine recently penalized for copying content

I don't really care how or why any entity behaves the way they do. All that matters are actions. You believe that it is not the intent of any in the US govt to be evil. I believe that too. IT IS IRRELEVANT. Look only at the actions...from actions you can discern true intent rather than marketing messages. The intent of the US govt is exactly as the previous poster stated.

Re:Frightening (2)

tewwetruggur (253319) | more than 12 years ago | (#2781006)

considering Ukraine's position geographically and geopolitically, one would think that the US might try to keep better relations with a country that after the Soviet break-up became the 3rd or 4th largest nuclear power in the world.

And not like Ukraine doesn't have more important things to worry about, like the perpetual clean-up of Chernobyl and the sometimes volatile situation of Crimea desiring separation from Ukraine.

Re:Frightening (1)

bensej (79049) | more than 12 years ago | (#2781031)

What makes no sense here is the fact that if you really want to go get a ton of super cheap bootleg DVD's there is no better place to go than China. A friend of mine came back with so many she hasn't even come close to unwrapping all of them yet and she has been back for more than a year. If we really care about copyright issues then China should be the number one target. I don't think we should be doing business with a country that has such horrible human rights violations either but on a protection of copyright level it doesn't make sense either.

Re:Frightening (1)

karb (66692) | more than 12 years ago | (#2781091)

I don't think anybody who supports normal trade relations with china thinks that it is any sort of support for their human rights abuses. In fact, it gives us a lot more say in said human rights issues. A fat lot of good sanctions against Iraq have done us.

Furthermore, if you have any delusions that China would roll over for the U.S. if we severed trade relations, you are greatly underestimating their will. I kind of see the trade relations as a way to avoid war. It provides a lot of power to those in the chinese government that are more friendly to the U.S..

*pff*, Ukraine? (2)

The Great Wakka (319389) | more than 12 years ago | (#2780922)

Well, now. The US is attempting to destablize a country. Or so it seems. Over what? Over some gibberish term? Over outdated copyright laws? The Ukraine is a nation of farming (last time I checked, could be different now), and this seems like a move to incite revolts and millitary governments. I wish we would wake up and smell the international coffee, which isn't "The Government Is Subservent To Corporations" Blend anymore. Please, for the love of god, don't destroy another country over something stupid.

Can you spell "illiteracy"? (OT) (1)

mi (197448) | more than 12 years ago | (#2780923)

It is not "The Ukraine". It is "Ukraine", damn it. "The France"? "The Russia"?

Re:Can you spell "illiteracy"? (OT) (1)

The Great Wakka (319389) | more than 12 years ago | (#2780947)

Actually...
Some coutries do have an article before them.

The United States
The Maldives
The Dominican Republic
The United Kingdom

and the name that Argentina calls itself (La Argentina) translates as, in fact, "The Argentina". Plus "Ukraine" is probably a gross angilicalization of the real name, which I do not know. Most countries acutally have a different name used within that country, but the name is changed to make it pronoucible. Case in point: Peking and Bejing are both the same city. They are equally close (from what other people tell me) to the actual Mandarin pronuciation.

P.S. Moderators: This isn't off topic.

Re:Can you spell "illiteracy"? (OT) (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2781019)

Well in russian we call Ukraine "Ukraina".

Also, there are no articles such as "the" or "a" in ukranian, russian and many other slavic languages.

Re:Can you spell "illiteracy"? (OT) (1)

gimple (152864) | more than 12 years ago | (#2781083)

It has been ages since my Russian and Polish language days, but...

IIRC, the root of the word Ukraine is kraj pronounced "cry," which means country or state. It is related to the word granica or, in English, border or frontier.

Basically, the word Ukraine means "the frontier," but since Slavic languages don't use articles it becomes "frontier."

I remember that when it was a Soviet state, the media ALWAYS called it The Ukraine, but when it reverted back to its own state, there was a huge debate on the proper name and Ukraine won out.

Re:Can you spell "illiteracy"? (OT) (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2781020)

"The United States of America" and the full Spanish name of our neighbor to the South, Spanish, "Los Estados Unidos De Mexico"

Re:Can you spell "illiteracy"? (OT) (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2781114)

Vive la France!

The core issue (4, Interesting)

syrupMatt (248267) | more than 12 years ago | (#2780943)

Do companies operating under one countries legal structure gain the same amount of protection when operating (or having their goods sold) in another country?

I find an interesting correlation here between "lassaie faire" business practices and the anti-corporation/IP movement. The movement wants corporations to recieve no help from the government for their business practices (IP, relief from economic hardship, etc), which are essentially leftist ideals. However, the fairly right ideal of lassaise faire essentially espouses the same thing, no? By all means correct me if I'm off base here.

(btw: sorry for the poli-labeling, but it helps to illustrate the constrasts in my point.)

Re:The core issue (1)

Catiline (186878) | more than 12 years ago | (#2781039)

You're confused, and it's because of the classical left wing/right wing political view. Politics aren't one dimensional. If you take the classical view, it's Communist - Liberal - Neutral - Conservative - Facist. Where are the anarchists? the Libertarians? It doesn't match the real world. See The World's Smallest Political Quiz [self-gov.org] for more information- they phrase it much better than I do.

Putting it all in some perspective....... (3, Insightful)

RobertAG (176761) | more than 12 years ago | (#2780970)

"[Summary: In response to the Ukraine government's "failure to enact an
optical media licensing regime that would preclude the piracy of such
products," the U.S. government has levied 100 percent tariffs on
Ukraine exports such as fuel oil, sneakers, paper, and diamonds. --Declan]"

Do we actually BUY that much stuff from them? It seems most of these exports can find ready markets elsewhere. It seems the loss in trade is greater than any piracy could be. Any comments?

Re:Putting it all in some perspective....... (2)

TBone (5692) | more than 12 years ago | (#2781070)

We won't be now.

Their fledgling new economy has had it's legs cut out from under it by the RIAA and the recently elected US Government. Never let it be said we didn't warn you about how this cabinet would end up being pro-big-business. Microsoft, RIAA, Verisign, it just keeps coming.

A note to the anarchists... (0, Offtopic)

cscx (541332) | more than 12 years ago | (#2780974)

Piracy is bad. The simple fact that this artice was posted as legitimate "news" is to stir up a controversy about "bah! those horrible Americans! fuck them! let the Ukranians have their piracy!"

Just the same as those fools that bash Microsoft about putting piracy protection in XP and Office. They are simply trying to prevent illegal trafficking of their products. I say, "Go USA!"

The fools that bash piracy prevention are the same reason piracy prevention had to be enacted in the first place.

Love the moderation (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2781068)

Offtopic my ass.

International RIAA (1)

Renraku (518261) | more than 12 years ago | (#2780980)

"The schemes were invented by IFPI, the International Federation of the Phonographic Industry, the international version of the RIAA. " I pity the IFPI agent that has to go into Asia and slap people on the wrist for pirating CDs that aren't sold out there anyway.

Both Ways (4, Insightful)

Alien54 (180860) | more than 12 years ago | (#2781007)

This is sort of like wanting everyone to obey USian laws without the US obeying theirs.

It becomes a matter of disrespect for national self rule. Also it is a matter of foreign policy being dictated by greed of business interests, morte than anything else.

I somehow like the old system where there always was a place on the planet that was outside the reach of the grasping hand of your local government. This is starting to go away now. Not yet, but soon.

From John Gilmore's Response (5, Insightful)

AgTiger (458268) | more than 12 years ago | (#2781045)

> There is a similar tracking requirement imposed on CD recorders (by
> the patent licenses issued by Philips). It requires that each CD
> burner record on the CD the serial number of the recorder, so that
> every burned CD-R can be traced back to which individual CD-burner
> recorded it.

Now _this_ was news to me. I'd like to see this proven or debunked. Is this software driven, or done by drives' firmware when a burn is started? Is there any way to disable this?

I don't mind my drive containing an electronic copy of its serial number for the purposes of identifying an individual unit with the manufacturer if I happen to need service.

I sure as hell mind if my drive is disclosing that information without my knowledge or consent!

As an example: John Doe works in a government agency, and notices some truly heinous and illegal activities going on with regards of that agency towards citizens of that government. John wants to blow the whistle, but he isn't stupid either. He anonymizes the information as best he can, cites several sources within the agency for the information in question, and writes it to a series of 5 CD-R's that he then sends to major newspaper editors in the hopes that they'll print it. CD-R's are the write-once/read-many diskette of the day, after all, and you don't have to worry about accidental magnetic erasure, so John thought he was being smart.

The story gets printed, there's a huge public outcry, the agency gets investigated, and this goes all the way to charges being laid and a lot of very powerful people being made _very_ uncomfortable, and quietly swearing to find the mole and give unto him a share of the misery that they are going through.

Fine, it's fictional, it probably has holes in it, and I've probably not drafted the perfect hypothetical scenario, but the basic gist of it is there.

There's a lot of cases where accidental disclosure of any information that would allow the source to be accurately identified is a _bad_ thing. Admittedly in some cases it can be a good thing, but I'm leery of making it _too_ easy.

Is there any way to prevent this little function from working correctly?

1. Change the electronic serial number of the drive?
2. Disable the routine that spits out a serial number?
3. Disable the routine that writes the serial number to the drive?

Rom microcode disassembly anyone? :-)

Re:From John Gilmore's Response (1)

SpacePunk (17960) | more than 12 years ago | (#2781112)

Easy solution. Use the CD-RW that's in the machine of someone you hate.

-

Let me tell you... (2, Insightful)

Purple_Walrus (457070) | more than 12 years ago | (#2781047)

Ukraine has it worse with computers than does Russia. And back in Russia things are really bad with computers. Software piracy is not as big an issue in Ukraine because well... not too many people own computers, and those that do probably own old ones.

Not saying that piracy isn't wrong but come on! Ukraine? That's just rediculous!

Don't like it? Complain! (5, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2781060)

Stop posting lameass "boy this sucks" complaints on Slashdot, and, if you don't like this, complain. Write your congressmen. Write your senator. Write the president. Heck, in the accouncement, there are three numbers you can call...

Kira Alvarez, Office of Services, Investment and Intellectual Property, Office of the United States Trade Representative (202) 395-6864

David Birdsey, Office of European Affairs, Office of the United States Trade Representative, (202) 395-3320

William Busis, Office of the General Counsel, Office of the United States Trade Representative, (202) 395-3150

(Me, I'd like to see some unbiased reports on this thing before making a decision, as neither Politech nor the RIAA seem like the best sources of information for something like this. But there's none of that being posted here, just loads of "me too!" posts. If you're certain its wrong, get off your "trying to be geeky cool" ass and do something...)

A note to the cynics out there... (2)

supabeast! (84658) | more than 12 years ago | (#2781089)

To all the people griping along the lines of "It is so horrible for us to do this when we don't do the same to China/India/Russia..."

If you really want to see the government do the right thing, call or write the politicians who did THIS, as well as their buddies, and commend them. Let them realize that the American people will support them when they do the right thing against smaller countries, and maybe they will start showing the courage to try pulling the stops against other nations guilty of human rights violations, which piss us off but do not hurt us economically. If all the politicians ever hear from people is "This sucks, these guys only do this to satisfy company X.," they sure as hell won't be willing to do something nasty just to protect the rights of some shmucks that they never deal with anyway.

Why not send the Navy? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2781097)

Why don't we just send the Navy like we did with those Spanish pricks around 1900. The Barbory Pirates or some shit like that.

Oh, you mean copying software?

I'm all for America, I love being an American, but our country does some really dumb things sometimes. (DMCA, Social Security, just to name two)

Karma Whorage (1, Redundant)

cscx (541332) | more than 12 years ago | (#2781104)

federal register: january 2, 2002 volume 67, number 1
notices
page 120 121
from the federal register online via gpo access wais.access.gpo.gov
docid:fr02ja02 131

office of the united states trade representative

docket no. 301 121

determination of action to increase duties on certain products of
ukraine pursuant to section 301 b : intellectual property laws and
practices of the government of ukraine

agency: office of the united states trade representative.

action: notice

summary: the united states trade representative trade representative
has determined that appropriate action to obtain the elimination of the
acts, policies, and practices of the government of ukraine that result
in the inadequate protection of intellectual property rights includes
the imposition of prohibitive duties on the annexed list of ukrainian
products.

effective dates: a 100 percent ad valorem rate of duty is effective
with respect to the articles of ukraine described in the annex to this
notice that are entered, or withdrawn from warehouse, for consumption
on or after january 23, 2002. in addition, any merchandise subject to
this determination that is admitted to u.s. foreign trade zones on or
after january 23, 2002 must be admitted as "privileged foreign
status".

for further information contact: kira alvarez, office of services,
investment and intellectual property, office of the united states trade
representative 202 395 6864; david birdsey, office of european
affairs, office of the united states trade representative, 202 395
3320; or william busis, office of the general counsel, office of the
united states trade representative, 202 395 3150. for questions
concerning product classification, please contact the general
classification branch, office of regulations and rulings, u.s. customs
service, 202 927 2388, and for questions concerning entries, please
contact yvonne tomenga, program officer, office of trade compliance,
u.s. customs service, 202 927 0133.

supplementary information: in a notice published on april 6, 2001 66
fr 18,346 , the office of the united states trade representative
"ustr" announced the initiation of an investigation under sections
301 to 309 of the trade act of 1974, as amended the trade act ,
regarding the government of ukraine's intellectual property protection
laws and practices, including the government of ukraine's failure to
use existing law enforcement authority to stop the ongoing unauthorized
production of optical media products and failure to enact an optical
media licensing regime that would preclude the piracy of such products.
see 66 fr 18,346 april 6, 2001 . in a notice published on august 10,
2001, ustr announced that the trade representative had determined that
these acts, policies, and practices of ukraine with respect to the
protection of intellectual property rights are unreasonable and burden
or restrict united states commerce and are thus actionable under
section 301 b of the trade act. see 66 fr 42,246 aug. 10, 2001 . the
notice also announced that the trade representative had determined that
appropriate action to obtain the elimination of such acts, policies,
and practices included the suspension of duty free treatment accorded
to products of ukraine under the generalized system of preferences.
the august 10, 2001 notice announced that further action might
include the imposition of prohibitive duties on products of ukraine to
be drawn from a preliminary product list. ustr invited interested
persons to submit written comments and to participate in a public
hearing on september 11, 2001. because the development of the final
product list involved complex and complicated issues that required
additional time, the trade representative determined under section
304 a 3 b of the trade act to extend the investigation by 3 months,
or until december 12, 2001. the public hearing was postponed and held
on september 25, 2001. see 66 fr 48,898 sep. 24, 2001 .
on december 11, 2001, the trade representative determined under
section 304 a 1 b of the trade act that appropriate action under
section 301 b , in addition to the prior suspension of gsp benefits,
included the imposition of 100 percent ad valorem duties on ukrainian
products with an annual trade value of approximately $75 million. the
level of sanctions is based on the level of the burden or restriction
on u.s. commerce resulting from ukraine's inadequate protection of u.s.
intellectual property rights.
the ukrainian parliament was scheduled to vote on an optical disc
licensing odl law on december 20, 2001, and the government of ukraine
assured in writing that it would make best efforts to ensure passage of
the law. in light of these developments, the trade representative
determined under section 305 a 2 a of the trade act that substantial
progress was being made and that a delay was necessary or desirable to
obtain a satisfactory

page 121

solution, and postponed implementation of the action until december 20,
2001.
on december 20, 2001, however, the ukrainian parliament voted down
the odl law. consequently, on that same day the trade representative
announced that he was imposing prohibitive duties on ukrainian products
with an annual trade value of approximately $75 million, and announced
the final product list on the following day.

imposition of prohibitive duties

the trade representative has determined that appropriate action
under section 301 b of the trade act is to impose a 100% ad valorem
rate of duty on the articles of ukraine described in the annex to this
notice, effective with respect to goods entered, or withdrawn from
warehouse, for consumption on or after january 23, 2002. accordingly,
effective january 23, 2002, the harmonized tariff schedule of the
united states hts is hereby modified in accordance with the annex to
this notice. in addition, any merchandise subject to this determination
that is admitted to u.s. foreign trade zones on or after january 23,
2002 must be admitted as "privileged foreign status" as defined in 19
cfr 146.41.
the scope of this action under section 301 is governed by the hts
nomenclature for the preexisting hts subheadings identified in
parentheses for each of the new chapter 99 subheadings in the annex to
this notice. the verbal product descriptions for the new chapter 99
subheadings in the annex are not definitive. issues regarding the
classification of particular products would be decided by the u.s.
customs service under its usual rules and procedures for product
classification.

william l. busis,
chairman, section 301 committee.

annex

the harmonized tariff schedule of the united states hts is
modified by adding in numerical sequence the following superior text
and subheadings to subchapter iii of chapter 99 to the hts. the
subheadings and superior text are set forth in columnar format, and
material in such columns is inserted in the columns of the hts
designated "heading/subheading", "article description", and
"rates of duty 1 general", respectively.

What can be done? (4, Insightful)

neoevans (179332) | more than 12 years ago | (#2781115)

As a Canadian citizen, I am fully used to taking it up the ass (I can see the Troll moderation already).

No, really. We Canadians are taxed around 55% of our total income. Our own government (my province anyways) allows companies the right to a monopoly in areas like Home/Auto Insurance, Transportation, local Telco etc... and even worse, grants those companies the right to levy citizens, even if those citizens don't use the service provided by the company (eg. Bus tax on Auto-Insurance).

I've always said that our governemt could not get away with, or even propose, the things they do here in any other country. The people wouldn't stand for it.

What I want to know, is what Americans do when their government does something that obviously by the replies to this post, the people don't agree with. Do you guys just sit by and bitch about it like us Canadians?

I've come to accept that nothing I do or say will change the vast scheme of the big-business take over in the world. I'm not rich enough to have a voice. I've written letters, petitioned my local office, even protested, nothing changes.

So I ask in this case of the world's self-proclaimed big-brother pushing around yet another perfectly content country. What are American Citizens going to do about it?
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