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New Linux PDA Announced At CES Today

timothy posted more than 12 years ago | from the the-field-gets-crowded dept.

Handhelds 161

It looks like the Royal Linux-PDA project has borne fruit. Bill Kendrick writes: "Linux Devices reports that Royal (makers of the DaVinci PDA) have announced yet another Linux-based PDA, called 'Lin@x' (how do you pronounce that!?). Unlike the DaVinci (and the Agenda VR3 -- Agenda Computing is owned by the same company as Royal), this PDA sports a 206MHz StrongARM, a color screen, and a CompactFlash slot. Planned price is about US$300." According to the PR, it will come bundled with software for Linux desktops as well as for Windows, which would be a nice touch.

Sorry! There are no comments related to the filter you selected.

fp!!! (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2807745)

Yo Yo Yo!

Shout out to the JR5!

Oh yeah, fp!!!

i have a question (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2807746)

this pda... can you get a first post with it?

a big ol second (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2807747)

second post, that's what I said biz-iz-niz-natch

Early Shemale Post! (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2807749)

Can't get them damn "chix with dix" out of my head! Does this make me gay?

Re:Early Shemale Post! (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2807753)

yes it does

Re:Early Shemale Post! (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2807816)

no, but this [xs4all.nl] might..

Re:Early Shemale Post! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2808108)

No, if you liked that, you'd definitely not be gay!

Likeness and Q (1)

BrianGa (536442) | more than 12 years ago | (#2807751)

This looks a lot like a Casio PDA... On another note, will this PDA support WinCE applications? Palm OS? If not, I see this going nowhere...

Re:Likeness and Q (2)

foonf (447461) | more than 12 years ago | (#2807893)

[QUOTE]On another note, will this PDA support WinCE applications? Palm OS? If not, I see this going nowhere...[/QUOTE]

It was mentioned that there is already an X11 implementation for it, and a Unix Palm emulator already has been ported. So yes, in a manner of speaking.

imagine a.... (0, Redundant)

elizard2k (532787) | more than 12 years ago | (#2807754)

imagine a beowulf .... nm :)

The big question... (-1, Redundant)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2807758)

Does it run linux?!?!

Dammitt! (1)

Treeluvinhippy (545814) | more than 12 years ago | (#2807760)

I'm still waiting for the Yopy!

easy. (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2807763)

"All your base belong to us.
Unless you have more weapons.
Then Don't Shoot!
We come is peace"

Expandability??? (0, Troll)

ctczar (547494) | more than 12 years ago | (#2807764)

All I hafta say is... Even my Handspring Visor Edge is more expandable than this new linux PDA!! Long live the VISOR!! Oh yeah... this is the first (rational) post...

Re:Expandability??? (1)

jockm (233372) | more than 12 years ago | (#2807875)

There are a lot more CompactFlash cards out there then there are SpringBoards...

Re:Expandability??? (0)

ctczar (547494) | more than 12 years ago | (#2807979)

yeah, but how many current CFs will work on the Lin@x?? if i wanted to use CFs, i'd get a Palm rather than go through the hassle of trying to get them to run properly in a Linux environment...

Whats with the @ (1)

oneferna (313913) | more than 12 years ago | (#2807765)

Why would they put a @ in the name, gotta be different.

Re:Whats with the @ (1)

irksome (106742) | more than 12 years ago | (#2807998)

Marketdroid-type people think it's cool to mix punctuation with normal letters.

Remember the :CueCat;.,? from D:ig:it:alCo:nverg@nce';'~

-

page lengthening post! (-1)

Klerck (213193) | more than 12 years ago | (#2807767)

Don't forget to add me [slashdot.org] to your foes list! Fags!

Back by unpopular demand, more random number crapflooding!

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Linux PDA (0, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2807769)

If it can run Linus, theen it can be ass immilated into my immense beowulf cluster (which, you can imagine, contains well over 5 machines).

Then I will play my favorite game on it, DOOM.

It will be fun, but DOOM is a very, very scary game in which you shoot monsters and evil humans so it will also be scary!

How do you pronounce it? (5, Funny)

Mandelbrute (308591) | more than 12 years ago | (#2807770)

According to RMS from a few years back it should probably be LiGNU@X - obviously pronounced "licks nuts."

Re:How do you pronounce it? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2808127)

huh how does LiGNU@X come to licks nuts? I would have to say LiGNU@X comes to li-guh-new-x. Anyways lin@x would probally be like lin-at-x. It sounds kinda stuttery huh.

Re:How do you pronounce it? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2808166)

You are so fucking gay. You couldn't leave the joke the way it was, could you? Fucking retard.

Hmm... (4, Insightful)

Paradoxish (545066) | more than 12 years ago | (#2807782)

The design is nice and it definetly has good hardware (for a PDA), but there's always the issue of compatibility. I love Linux. It's my preferred operating system, but while the OS can do everything (and a whole lot more) than Windows OS, it can't run as many things. That's important in the handheld market as well. PDAs are expensive and to be worth that expense they have to serve a greater purpose than as a glorified organizer.

This is a big reason why I'm still so obsessed with PalmOS. The amount of software available for it is staggering and a good portion is free (it's also a good, fairly fast OS). Unfortunetly, the hardware it runs on generally isn't that powerful and most Palm devices aren't quite a step in the "handheld computer" direction. And since Linux doesn't seem to be making its way into the mainstream PDA market I somehow doubt that it'll ever get the amount of programs it deserves...

Re:Hmm... (2)

zulux (112259) | more than 12 years ago | (#2807855)

And since Linux doesn't seem to be making its way into the mainstream PDA market I somehow doubt that it'll ever get the amount of programs it deserves...

Any Linux PDA, though, has the entire OpenSource/GPL universe to draw applications from if the device itself is capable of running them hardware-wise. While the PalmOS does have many purpous built applications for it - I woulden't want to program that thing with it's 64K barriers and non POSIX 'operating system.' As applications for PDA's mature, then Linux becomes a great choice, not for the 'address book/organiser' of tomorrow but for the database connected point of sale sytem that can only be now dreamed about.

Re:Hmm... (3, Insightful)

pi_rules (123171) | more than 12 years ago | (#2807991)

Any Linux PDA, though, has the entire OpenSource/GPL universe to draw applications from if the device itself is capable of running them hardware-wise. While the PalmOS does have many purpous built applications for it - I woulden't want to program that thing with it's 64K barriers and non POSIX 'operating system.' As applications for PDA's mature, then Linux becomes a great choice, not for the 'address book/organiser' of tomorrow but for the database connected point of sale sytem that can only be now dreamed about.

I don't see how the majority of X11 applications would ever run on one of these things to tell you the truth. Ever tried X in 640x480 with most applications? They're built by developers for developers. Developers that run in 1280x1024 mode all day long. Even at 1024x768 on my laptop I frequently find applications spilling over the edges of my screen. As far as console applications go I wouldn't see them as -ever- being useful on such a thing. I just can't fathom a useful console application on a handheld device -- too cumbersome.

The PalmOS limit of 64k data chunks (which can be worked around) really isn't all that bad if you ask me. I've written a bit of PalmOS code now and to tell you the truth I really like it. I'm only moderately annoyoned that things like sprintf() are renamed to StrPrintF() and such but there's a good reason for them doing this -- a standard C library is just a bit overkill for such a little device with applications that are intended to be small.

I couldn't care less about POSIX compliance on one of these things either. The majority of things defined in POSIX would be entirely non-existent on such a device IMHO.

I, and I would assume most developers, have very little qualms with an embedded device such as a PDA requireing you to re-learn some very basic things. All in all it takes less than an hour.

Besides that, most applications (well, the rinky-dink ones) are only ever tested on the x86 platform. Simply switching to a new architecuture and re-compiling is quite likely going to break things as some developers aren't always aware of little-endian vs bid-ending or that 'int' might not always be the size they expected.

Re:Hmm... (2)

zulux (112259) | more than 12 years ago | (#2808066)

Your right - I don't think we'll ever get a decent terminal application, or a word processor for a PDA - It would suck. The types of applications that would be good for a powerful Linux PDA would be things like car license database for bicycle police, or a map of the entire USA for hikers.

Palms are great - Cool small-apps on a functional device and a Linux PDA will never replace a small and efficient Palm style PDA. But they do have a nich to fill: Case in point, one of my customers would like to his workers to do Job costing in the field. Palm deceives don't have enough memory and I'm too lazy to work around the 64K barriers. WinCE devices are too flaky - they crash way too often. Symbian is cool, but you can't buy Revos anymore. Linux based Sharp looks to us to be a good development platform and were really looking forward to getting things up and running.

Re:Hmm... (2, Interesting)

Chris Canfield (548473) | more than 12 years ago | (#2807985)

Compatibility? You mean like trying to buy a keyboard to fit a Clie? (if you find one, please pick me up a copy).

I would argue that PDA's do best as organizers, and that a large portion of Palm's success in the low-cost organizer market is staying focused and realizing that a personal assistant doesn't need to play Quake. Certainly, mapping software, mail updates, spreadsheet programs, and word processors are all needed on a PDA, all of which wouldn't be hard to port to the portable. But those are really above and beyond what you need a Palm for - staying organized. Likewise, any software that was critical to your business would be much easier (and cheaper) to port to an open (or mostly open) linux platform than to try and code on a closed proprietary box. All of the intriguing point-of-sale and data gathering uses for PDA's would be best served on this platform.

I'm not convinced that most people download or buy very many applications for their handhelds. Many seem to buy it as one complete package. Does anyone have any hard data on this?

Re:Hmm... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2808072)

i dont even think many want a word processor on it
other than the hardcore geeks

I see it a bit differently (1)

clump (60191) | more than 12 years ago | (#2808011)

I love Linux. It's my preferred operating system, but while the OS can do everything (and a whole lot more) than Windows OS, it can't run as many things.


Well, that issue applies to every PDA out there. Even if you have binary compatibility, you still have to deal with the hardware and peripheral limitations. The Palm machines of course were not as developed at launch as they are today. You need popularity to get apps (See chicken and egg.)

I have an Agenda Vr3. Though to some its already dead, app-wise it is amazing. I can telnet to it, run x11 apps on it or from it, and can program on its teeny-weenie bash prompt.

Linux is great for these things. Its not hard to put a little launcher on an x11 or framebuffer device that could start Mozilla, Balsa, Abiword, Gnome-PIM, or any other reasonable productivity app.

Its not like people choose Palm because it can run Ms Word in a true-color 1280x1024 display...

Pronounced (5, Funny)

tunah (530328) | more than 12 years ago | (#2807785)

It is pronounced Lin(ux) Attacks!

Re:Pronounced (1)

minusthink (218231) | more than 12 years ago | (#2808003)

while funny, my money would be on this being correct. =\

I've got things to do! my god!

nice touch (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2807788)

it will come bundled with software for Linux desktops as well as for Windows, which would be a nice touch.


Yeah, all you slashdot editor weenies will love the windows software since you all praise linux and bash windows while not-so-secretly running it on your desktop so you can play Diablo II.

Okay, what's the goal for Linux use? (2, Troll)

perdida (251676) | more than 12 years ago | (#2807789)

Linux: a thing that is used on a very few desktop computers.

It is used on a lot of: servers and back-endy type things that very few consumers use.

So here comes this Linux PDA. Okay, that's cool. Proof of concept, etc. But where do we go from here?

Most people use their PDA with their desktops.

If the Linux PDA bundles mostly Win software, it won't encourage puchase by Linux-desktop users (a small market).

If the PDA bundles mostly Win software, it won't encourage purchase by Win desktop users (a huge market).

It can do a combo, but it's a PDA. It has limited space, and if it wants to compete in the PDA market it had better have the same bells and whistles as your average Palm or Handspring with a proprietary OS on it. So, it can't have a 50/50 balance.

It has to pick one, Linux or Windows?

I think Linux PDA's need to be Win desktop compatible. This will introduce Linux by the back-door to many consumers, while maintaining a competitive product!

The only worry is in the minds of Linux purists, who will feel underrepresented here. However, they are (from a marketing perspective) irrelevant.

Anyone who actually wants to make money on Linux will be thrilled to see it in small appliances and PDAs like this one.

Re:Okay, what's the goal for Linux use? (3, Informative)

swv3752 (187722) | more than 12 years ago | (#2807826)

What are you talking about? As long as it syncs with windows, peopel will buy it. As long as it has OSS sync software, Linux users will buy it.

BTW, I have an Agenda, and it does everything a Palm does. I barely hook it up to my desktop. Not because it is difficult to do, but because there is a lack of need. Every couple weeks I back it up and rsync it. I worte a quickie script that will backup everything, and I only need to type in one command (which has since been bound to a keystroke in Sawfish).

Re:Okay, what's the goal for Linux use? (2, Insightful)

Paradoxish (545066) | more than 12 years ago | (#2807860)

You make a valid point, but there's a reason Linux is loved by (most) people who use it. It's a fast, stable operating system with generally low requirements. That makes it perfect for the PDA market. Remember: Linux purists are going to love seeing it on a PDA, but the average consumer won't what it runs as long as it meets his needs. This is a lot different from the desktop computer market, where Joe consumer expects to see a Windows-like environment.

PDA's and other devices really are a great use for Linux. As long as the lack-of-software hurdle can be overcome I think that this is a great way for Linux to break into the mainstream.

Oooohhhh.... AAAhhhhhhhhh.... (1, Redundant)

TheQuantumShift (175338) | more than 12 years ago | (#2807790)

Oh, wait, I still don't need a PDA, and neither does 75% of the planet... But with that out of the way, it looks cool, seems like a nice PDA, and will show the ordinary user Linux IS just as good, if not better. I wish there were a few distro's that were that easy to use for the novice, and no Mandrake is still not there. When Shit Just Works, and theres no fussing about for sound (mostly done) printing(also mostly done), and just plain accounting for the average StupidUser. I know this has all been said before, and often. Theres a reason for that. But now thanks to more and more cool little embedded devices like this one, maybe I can get some fsckn' Linux coverage on TechTV...

Re:Oooohhhh.... AAAhhhhhhhhh.... (1)

Afrosheen (42464) | more than 12 years ago | (#2807845)

You must be high. Quote "When Shit Just Works, and theres no fussing about for sound (mostly done) printing(also mostly done), and just plain accounting for the average StupidUser"

Windows still can't do this for 100% of users. Actually your statement sums up windows to a T.

Re:Oooohhhh.... AAAhhhhhhhhh.... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2808156)

Yeah I agree with you on many points there. Id like to point one thing out a few months back I said I wouldn't buy a damn pda because thare aren't worth a buck over $60 to me. In early December I ended up getting a Helio for $50. Well thats because it seems V-tech is halting their whole PDA production and development. Anyways to make a short story short some damn company should make cheep REAL pdas. Well under that $100 mark and I wont count the Palm M100 for cheese.

LINATX? (3, Redundant)

Dr. Awktagon (233360) | more than 12 years ago | (#2807796)

Sometimes you think, marketing departments are useless, then you see something like that...........

Re:LINATX? (1)

danox (232017) | more than 12 years ago | (#2807840)

What we need now is some wave files to be sent around the net:

"Hello my name is Linus Torvalds, and I pronounce lin@x, lin@x"

That should settle any pronounciation disputes.

Re:LINATX? (1)

PD (9577) | more than 12 years ago | (#2807928)

I heard that we narrowly missed TWA being turned into TW@. Huh huh. He said TW@.

[OT] Re:LINATX? (2)

tunah (530328) | more than 12 years ago | (#2808159)

LINATX? (Score:4, Redundant)

No, if you want redundant, there was a program on here in NZ called backch@t.

what is the point (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2807800)

What is the point of a handheld computer that runs linux anyway? The only people that will be able to use it will be UNIX gurus that have way too much free time to devote to such a complex operating system. For a handheld device to catch on, it must be easy to use for the _average_ person (not the readers of this site). Those users want graphical interfaces and easy to use programs, not complex command line tools and switches.. the users shouldn't have to be reading technical man pages, written mostly by programmers and hackers, in order to figure out how to view or add contacts in their electronic organizer.

Re:what is the point (1)

arielb (5604) | more than 12 years ago | (#2807904)

have you even used linux? Linux has been using GUI's for years. Linux is also in the Sharp Zaurus and Tivo.

And the point is..... (5, Insightful)

josh crawley (537561) | more than 12 years ago | (#2807833)

I've seen enough about this Linux PDA tripe. Big deal they are running a modified version of Linux. I'd rather see propertiary tight code on a upgradable eeprom than a larger OS designed FOR desktop/tower/laptop computers.
All I would ask is for OPEN STANDARDS to connect the computer to the pda, wether that be mac or pc. USB would probably be the way to go, since it's on the hardware architecure of both platforms.
I wouldnt mind PAYING for a devel kit for this pda if was at a decent price. They gotta make money somehow, and the devel kit isnt a bad idea, but just as long as they don't go the MS way of Wince.. I mean WinCE :-) No Microsoft, we aren't going to pay a 1000$ for your "WinCE"ing devel kit.

Josh Crawley

Point missed (2, Insightful)

CodingFiend (236675) | more than 12 years ago | (#2807870)

MS WinCE dev kit is free.

http://www.microsoft.com/mobile/downloads/emvt30 .a sp

You may be talking about the platform builder, which lets you custom design a version of CE for your specific hardware.

Re:Point missed (2, Interesting)

josh crawley (537561) | more than 12 years ago | (#2807919)

Thanks for the link, but Boo's to MS because the data sheet is non-existant and the download isn't there (after registering bogus passport crap). Don't know if it's me. I just get thier bloated 404 file not found.

Josh Crawley

btw: I had to get MS out of Hosts cause of the link :-P Back in it goes....

Re:Point missed (1)

DavidJA (323792) | more than 12 years ago | (#2808039)

Thanks for the link, but Boo's to MS because the data sheet is non-existant and the download isn't there (after registering bogus passport crap). Don't know if it's me. I just get thier bloated 404 file not found.

I actually downloaded the thing around 6 months ago, before you needed a passport rego, BUT, the 450 odd MEG of download was corrupt!

BUT - You can get the SDK on CD, which I puchased (around $30au). Try here http://developerstore.com/devstore/product.asp?pro ductID=7516&store=Toolbox_INTL [developerstore.com]

Re:Point missed (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2808135)

I just tried the link. boom, downloaded it no problem. Also, dumbass, check out msdn.microsoft.com/library. just about everything you might want documentation on is there. no passport required.

Re:And the point is..... (1)

andrewski (113600) | more than 12 years ago | (#2807968)

Actually, dude, Linux was designed originally for hardware which was much LESS powerful than the current crop of handheld processors. Remember the 386?

Re:And the point is..... (1)

josh crawley (537561) | more than 12 years ago | (#2808083)

First off, I'm not a Dude. Second, Yes I do remember the 80386, 80286, 8086, and even older computers quite well.

If my memory serves me right, the Linux Kernel was created at about '92, and the 80386 was created at about '85 with mHz speeds rating 12.5 and 15, ranging up to 33. The 486 was released in '89, the major difference is that the 486 has the FPU. Torvalds wanted to run his kernel/OS on older CPU's. Hence why we still use 386 basic kernels (so we don't bump into non-implemented instructions like sse or 3d now).

Next, gui processing takes a toll of cpu. Hopefully, they implemented a gfx chip that does hardware windowing.

Well, have you ever used a TI-86? That's what I've used as a pda/handheld cpu. It's a Z80 (very supported) with rom calls to simplify programming. I've made math apps and downloaded Full Elemental Chart programs with electron shell energy levels. I played Mario and like games with sound on it. And all the programs are free. It may have 80KB but that's plenty for me.

Josh Crawley

Re:And the point is..... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2808111)


> First off, I'm not a Dude.

ehehehh...

Re:And the point is..... (2, Funny)

andrewski (113600) | more than 12 years ago | (#2808133)

Well, for your sake, I hope you aren't a girl with the name Josh.

Dude.

Re:And the point is..... (2)

fireant (24301) | more than 12 years ago | (#2808096)

I'd rather see propertiary tight code on a upgradable eeprom than a larger OS designed FOR desktop/tower/laptop computers.

Tight code is not an inherent property of proprietary code, and being proprietary, how can you tell if it's well written? An OS is more than just the kernel. Linux, the kernel, was originally written for the 386 (as another poster mentioned). IIRC the 386 that I had ran at 12MHz, much slower than this 206 MHz StrongARM.

I'm sure that the kernel runs like a champ on the processor. It's the bundled apps that may slow things down, it doesn't matter if you write for WinCE, Linux, BeOS, or Palm, if you can't write good embedded code, you can't write good embedded code.

Re:And the point is..... (1)

josh crawley (537561) | more than 12 years ago | (#2808161)

"Tight code is not an inherent property of proprietary code, and being proprietary, how can you tell if it's well written?"

Very true, but you fail to see the last 2 VERY important words that I included: "upgradable eeprom". I would expect to use standard modules in dips or the like. If you wanted, you could dump the eeprom with the os and dissassemble it, as ARM instruction set is open. I would expect nothing less than tight asm code coming from a pda os. A casual user wouldn't do this, but we probably would. Swap a chip, change the OS

If you ever do asm programming, you can feel if code was generated or actually written. Of course, you can always look at the internal make stamp :-) Reverse engineering of software apps readily shows this time and time again. VB isn't even worth the effort, as even the "compiled" code is nothing but slightly compressed OBJ and FRM code with 1 asm code to JMP to the VB dll. MASM does weird stuff if you use the instructions they provide, as it cannot seem to assemble JMP and JMP-like instructions correctly (it assumes that you always want a JMP or a JMP "boolean type". I usually use NASM and TASM.

Releasing whole Desktop with it (4, Interesting)

Bo Vandenberg (247590) | more than 12 years ago | (#2807848)

I have desktop machines at work that are less useful than my palm. A better link between PDA and Desktop could make an average PDA great.

PDA friendly desktop apps, with a linux standard could be a really good thing :).

bo

Give me That!! (0)

gonzoucab (548120) | more than 12 years ago | (#2807849)

and i stuck to it a ibm Microdrive, and rhen have my drems come true :-

Lin@x == S@perb! (3, Funny)

Nathdot (465087) | more than 12 years ago | (#2807857)

This new naming convention so@nds like q@ite a breakthr@

:)

N@thdot

Re:Lin@x == S@perb! (1)

arielb (5604) | more than 12 years ago | (#2807911)

@greed :)

Re:Lin@x == S@perb! (1)

KILNA (536949) | more than 12 years ago | (#2807958)

Yo@ didn't seem to notice the h@moro@s fact of which letter of the alphabet they @sed.

Another Linux Vaporware Project!! (-1)

ForWhomTheHellTrolls (543770) | more than 12 years ago | (#2807864)

Another Linux Vaporware Project!! Destined for the "whatever happened to that" category!!

Dave Thomas, founder of Wendy's, dead at 69 (-1)

WeatherTroll (529760) | more than 12 years ago | (#2807880)

I just heard some sad news on talk radio - Dave Thomas was found dead in his home this morning. There weren't any more details. I'm sure everyone in the Slashdot community will miss him - even if you never ate at Wendy's, there's no denying his contributions to American culture. Truly a fast food icon.

Re:Dave Thomas, founder of Wendy's, dead at 69 (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2808141)

I p0sted this first [slashdot.org] .

valinux

What's the point? (3, Insightful)

Burgundy Advocate (313960) | more than 12 years ago | (#2807882)

Sure, linux is great. We all love linux. Rah.

But honestly -- both Palm and PocketPC are so far ahead of linux in the palmtop area it's not even funny! I mean, they actually have applications! Ones that work... and well!

So my question is why design and build something that only a few geeks will want... and even then, just because of the "hey, it runs linux" factor?

I guess it's the same reason that GNOME and KDE don't use each other's code -- they don't want to admit that the other might be better in some areas.

Re:What's the point? (1)

mandria (442627) | more than 12 years ago | (#2807917)

>>So my question is why design and build something that only a few geeks will want... and even then, just because of the "hey, it runs linux" factor?

how about because a company wants to save money by not paying palm or microsoft for licensing.

Re:What's the point? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2808061)

Sure, linux is great. We all love linux. Rah.

But honestly -- both Microsoft and Apple are so far ahead of linux in the desktop area it's not even funny! I mean, they actually have applications! Ones that work... and well!

So my question is why design and build something that only a few geeks will want... and even then, just because of the "hey, it's not microsoft" factor?

I guess it's the same reason that FreeBSD and Linux don't use each other's code -- they don't want to admit that the other might be better in some areas.

Re:What's the point? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2808064)

So incredibly true.

--ba

Re:What's the point? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2808100)

Sure, linux is great. We all love linux. Rah.


But honestly -- both IBM and Sun are so far ahead of linux in the server area it's not even funny! I mean, they actually have applications! Ones that work... and well!


So my question is why design and build something that only a few geeks will want... and even then, just because of the "hey, it's not microsoft" factor?


etc...

Re:What's the point? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2808134)

Well since Gnome is a bloated piece of crap why would KDE borrow from it? Seriously? KDE .99 was better than Gnome current. Or should that be Ximinan gnome since they hijacked Gnome for commercial purposes.(Ah, didn't piss off any longtime Gnome coders with that one. "Sure were gonna take your work and make money off it, as long as you work for Ximinan")

Either way I avoid Gnome like the plague and tell everyone I know to do the same, its a sinking ship. No wonder everyone except for redhat makes KDE their default desktop.

from royal, um, no thanks (3, Informative)

veggiespam (5283) | more than 12 years ago | (#2807894)

there is a serious problem with royal and customer support not to mention their inability to write software. anyone who has purchased a davinci can attest to this. royal's sync program barely worked on windows 95/98 and failed to work on windows nt only giving uses duplicate records on the pda and the sync'd desktop with every docking. and now, they're telling us that this linux pda will work with linux and windows? they couldn't get their own custom pda to work with their custom sync software. and to think there was actually a small cut following.

i'm still waiting for the promised nt support on my davinci. any day now.

linux in pda's (3, Redundant)

GoatPigSheep (525460) | more than 12 years ago | (#2807895)

As much as I like linux, I am curious what advantages does it have being used in a pda besides the 'moral' ones of being open-source and such. I mean wince and palmOS have been around a while, and at least palmOS seems to do the job right. I know linux on a pda would make porting easier but do people really want straight ports of desktop applications to a pda? Running on a 240 x 320 res screen? Although ports of software such as quake to linux pda's are cool there isn't much point aside from the 'coolness' factor.

Re:linux in pda's (1)

PlaysWithMatches (531546) | more than 12 years ago | (#2808002)

Firstly, I agree that Linux on a handheld seems like a rather dubious project for a business to jump into. I'm all for the community playing around with this stuff for fun, but high-profile business failures of this nature are no good for Linux. And considering the past Linux PDAs, I don't have much faith in the future of this one.

I use a PalmOS handheld, and I love it. Granted, I really hate shareware, but there's some great software out there, and I have no qualms about paying for it if it's good. Unlike with my PC, I don't have the motivation to dink with source for my handheld. I don't have the interest or the time. I just want to store my appointments, surf my web cache in between classes, and not worry about it.

However! As I said above, experimenting by the user community is a Good Thing(tm). You say there "isn't much point aside from the 'coolness' factor." Well, that is the point. I think it's pretty damn cool to run Quake on a handheld. I'm all for it when people port software to new/interesting platforms. PsiLinux anyone? QNX on an iPaq? Generally not particularly useful, but they are cool projects, and that's the source of their value (such as it is, depending on your point of view).

Re:linux in pda's (1)

yomahz (35486) | more than 12 years ago | (#2808124)

Umm... let's see..

I'd love to:

openssh
shell script
perl script
any number of linux utils (awk, find, less, etc.)
emacs
vi!
gcc!!
nmap
netcat
etc.
etc.

from my PDA... I don't think I'll ever be able to do any of those things with winCE or PalmOS.

Screw the GUI apps.. I'd run a linux PDA for the same reason as I run my servers/development environment... I don't run linux as a desktop and I wouldn't expect my linux PDA to be a desktop. The GUI apps are nice but I wouldn't rely on it.

Re:linux in pda's (1)

wadetemp (217315) | more than 12 years ago | (#2808158)

I don't expect PDAs to be desktops. But they aren't servers or development machines either. Can you explain what you would use gcc on a handheld for? (since that one has the most exclamation points, I'm assuming that's your most-wanted app.) And IMHO, vi is really designed for a full size keyboard, not a PDA keyboard. If you can't be productive and quick on the keyboard in vi, what's the point?

OpenSSH and the Internet. All I really need (2, Interesting)

Grax (529699) | more than 12 years ago | (#2807905)

All I really need is OpenSSH or another SSH2 client and a wireless internet connection (either directly or through my cell phone). Does this do that easily? Is there another PDA or PDA-like device that does it better?

The Nokia Communicator looks like my ideal device but I don't know that there is an SSH2 client for it and they can't sell it in the USA anyway.

Yes! It can do wireless with a little work (1)

EMIce (30092) | more than 12 years ago | (#2808163)

There is currently one compact flash based 802.11b nic out there, and it's made by Symbol Technologies. As far as I know it's the only way to keep your PDA compact and have LAN connectivity.

[palmos/pocketpc rant]At first these things only worked on PocketPC but Handera technologies has just released a driver for PalmOS, though unfortunately the Handera 330 is the only PalmOS device with a compact flash slot. Palm really needs to do something about this and their tardiness in getting faster hardware to market. Their secure digital connector doesn't seem to be going anywhere and the current 200Mhz PocketPCs will be using 300-400Mhz Intel made StrongARM processors next year while Motorla won't have it's 200Mhz StrongARM processors ready till q3 2002. I know Palm likes Motorola but they have to ditch them if they can't keep up, the Intel processors are also PalmOS 5 compatible.[/rant]

Anywho, Symbol has been very nice in that they have a developer kit for OEM manufacturers to develop drivers for their hardware and it's available here. [symbol.com] This Linux PDA company should invest what is relatively a couple bucks in the kit and develop drivers, Symbol has done a good part of the work already and being wirless capable would increase geek appeal, which seems to be a considerable part of the market for this thing. Imagine walking around the house and using your PDA as a remote for everything, especially for queueing up mp3s, obsessively checking email, controlling x10 devices via a server, starting your car, etc.. A wireless PDA adds a lot of potential to the geek dream of building a truly networked, automated household.

asdf (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2807924)

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Bill is quite amazing. (5, Informative)

clump (60191) | more than 12 years ago | (#2807930)

Bill Kendrik, the submitter, is quite amazing all by himself. If you have an Agenda Vr3 Linux handheld, you are quite familiar with his Aliens [newbreedsoftware.com] game, among others.

He kept on top of the Agenda like glue, and develops amazing apps and games for free. I know I am just pontificating, but its guys like this that make Linux so cool.

Looks familiar (1)

KILNA (536949) | more than 12 years ago | (#2807942)

The interface reminds me of my favorite PalmOS "Applications" button (the little home symbol) replacement, Launch 'Em [synsolutions.com] . It is a really nice setup actually. Also, my vote is for "lin-ax" as the pronunciation. :)

Does it suck? What about the Linux trademark? (4, Insightful)

isaac (2852) | more than 12 years ago | (#2807945)

If I was Linus Torvalds, I'd be really interested in finding out whether this device sucks or not - because if it does, I wouldn't want a name so similar to Linux(TM) on it.

90% of PDA platforms suck, just like 90% of anything else, so there's a pretty good chance this thing is just going to be another high-profile PDA flop. At least G.Mate (Yopy), VTech (Helio), and Agenda had the decency not to try and use the Linux name to brand their products. If I were Linus, I might encourage Royal to do the same. And I'd royally smack up those LinuxDA fools.

-Isaac

Ahhhh (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2807952)

Linux PDA's are great! I've got one up my ass right now!

Linux-Everything (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2807955)

When are they going to make a Linux-based toilet? I need EVERYTHING in my house to be based on Linux.

Right (0, Offtopic)

unformed (225214) | more than 12 years ago | (#2807989)

All your PDAs belongs to us.

We are in a rut (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2807990)

The Yopy begat the iPAQ and the iPAQ began just about every other friggin' Linux pda type gadget.

I want the ability to add a 2.5in HDD to my iPAQ. Does anybody make a CF USB host or firewire card?

Nice widgets (1)

Comrade Pikachu (467844) | more than 12 years ago | (#2808021)

Compared to the Zaurus, this PDA looks like it wins in the user interface department. Nice icons, simple graphics, and no attempt at fake buttony looking widgets. The screen space on a PDA is so tiny, why waste it by drawing drop shadows and raised lines around buttons, as if on a desktop?

The Zaurus seems to win overall based on its features, but this one seems to have made some good decisions, too. Is that a jog dial on the left side?

Stephen King, author, dead at 55 (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2808025)


I just heard some sad news on talk radio - Horror/Sci Fi writer Stephen King was found dead in his Maine home this morning. There weren't any more details. I'm sure everyone in the Slashdot community will miss him - even if you didn't enjoy his work, there's no denying his contributions to popular culture. He also founded Wendy's. Truly an American icon.

Dave Thomas, fat ass, dead at 69 (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2808036)

I just heard some sad news on tv - Fat Ass/Fast Food Restaurant owner Dave Thomas was found dead in his home this morning. There weren't any more details. I'm sure he died from eating way too many burgers/fries, probably doing the hundreds of retakes for his commercials and having to constantly take bites of Wendy's food.

Davinci (2)

British (51765) | more than 12 years ago | (#2808040)

I hope it's better than the Davinci DV-3 I have. It can't keep correct time(which renders so many features useless), the to-do list only will show tasks checked as done, and the cursive handwriting system is an absolute joke.

Re:Davinci (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2808175)

The DaVinci was an EXTREMELY cheap Palm knock-off last time I checked, going for around $100 when the Palm III was going for $350 or so. It basically had the functionality of a $19.99 electronic organizer, with a bigger screen and a knock-off version of grafitti.

Lin@x must be pronounced... (3, Funny)

jerryasher (151512) | more than 12 years ago | (#2808052)

lin-at-x => linatix => lunatics!

wow (3, Funny)

Iamthefallen (523816) | more than 12 years ago | (#2808059)

Nice, but I'm holding out for the 1337 h4x0r 1i|\|@>< model.

It's a sad day when marketing droids are trying to be fashionably 1337.

question (1)

skEwb (548846) | more than 12 years ago | (#2808095)

Since this pda is based on linux arent they supposed to share the source code to it? If so is the source code to this pda available anywhere?

Are you people crazy? This thing looks awesome! (3, Informative)

colmore (56499) | more than 12 years ago | (#2808110)

something noone has commented on just yet: did you get a look at that keyboard? Judging from the picture (and probably a sentence that i'm not seeing on my second read-through) there is a built in *physical* qwerty keyboard that you can access by expanding the PDA Transformers-style. Can anyone else say bad-ass? This feature single handedly makes this the best PDA hardware on the market.

Now as to software concerns: this is a first-gen product. I know it will be competing with third and fourth gen products from Microsoft and Palm, but we should also remember that immediately after release, the software will undergo *rapid* improvement.

it looks like the standard PDA apps will be working out of the box, and how many part time hackers will be jumping to work on ports? I can't wait for portable nethack. (and yes i know it already exists)

there are potential problems: it sounds like it takes a few seconds to power-up and boot. that's a big no-no, unless there's a very good standby mode. The name is also a mistake. "Linux" is a scary thing to most consumers, and any reference to it in the name is a marketing mistake. The interface should hide the nerdier aspects of the system completely, it worried me to see a terminal window in the review. Not that the technical side of things should be inaccessible, it just shouldn't be required for anything outside of development or hard-core tweaking.

all in all, i want one, and at $300, it will be the cheapest 200mhz, 64mbit PDA out there. Sounds like a winner.

Re:Are you people crazy? This thing looks awesome! (1)

colmore (56499) | more than 12 years ago | (#2808122)

never mind, i'm an idiot. in my sleepless fog, i posted in the wrong open window. one of the hazards of late-night multitasking, i suppose. don't waste your mod points.

QT or GTK? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2808113)

???

What is their market? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2808125)

So who will use this besides people who are linux supporters?
I am not saying both Palm and Pocket PC are without fault, but seriously does anyone expect this to survive more than a year?
I have been hearing about linux pda's for years now and the ones that hit the market so far hold no advantages over the current ones. And no the .00001 percent of you that want to run X or konq on a 4" screen do not count.

Compatibility... (1)

gtada (191158) | more than 12 years ago | (#2808130)

Not only are these Linux handhelds competiting with the Palms and Pocket PC's, but they're competiting with each other. What are you going to do when you want applications? Is anybody going to support each of these platforms? Don't get me wrong, I like the options available. But I kinda hope in the 2nd generation (or 3rd if you count the Agenda as 1st gen) there are some standards (QTopia vs. X Window System vs. microWindows).

Can it run NetBSD? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2808183)

I'd really like to run NetBSD on these
StrongARM based PDAs. I heard DEC had
orginally based the StrongARM based NC
called Shark on NetBSD, then some folks
back East went and starting doing Linux for
the DEC handhelds.
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