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Michael Robertson Interview about Lindows

Hemos posted more than 12 years ago | from the making-it-work dept.

Linux 384

unclegus writes "I ran across this article talking about Michael Roberston and Lindows. Says a "Sneak Preview" will be available in a few weeks. Release 1.0 will be $100 for single user ..." Dan Gillmor, the author of it, has said that it appears to be the real thing - I'll be interested in getting my hands on it.

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The G Factor (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2811428)

Q. Is Lindows gay?
A. Yes! But not a gay as Linux.

Re:The G Factor (-1)

Big_Ass_Spork (446856) | more than 12 years ago | (#2811535)

* g o a t s e x * g o a t s e x * g o a t s e x *
g ÿ ÿ ÿ ÿ ÿ ÿ ÿ ÿ ÿ ÿ ÿ ÿ ÿ ÿ ÿ ÿ ÿ ÿ ÿ ÿ ÿ g ÿ
o / ÿ ÿ \ ÿ ÿ ÿ ÿ ÿ \ ÿ ÿ ÿ ÿ ÿ/ ÿ ÿ\ ÿ ÿ o
a ÿ ÿ ÿ ÿ ÿ ÿ ÿ ÿ \ ÿ ÿ ÿ ÿ ÿ ÿ ÿ ÿ ÿ ÿ ÿa
t ÿ ÿ ÿ `. ÿ ÿ ÿ ÿ ÿ ÿ ÿ ÿ ÿ ÿ ÿ ÿ : ÿ ÿ t
s` ÿ ÿ ÿ ÿ ÿ ÿ ÿ ÿ ÿ ÿ ÿ ÿ ÿ ÿ\ ÿ ÿ ÿ ÿ ÿ s
e \ ÿ ÿ ÿ / ÿ ÿ ÿ / ÿ\\\ ÿ -- \\ ÿ ÿ ÿ : ÿ ÿe
x ÿ\ ÿ ÿ ÿ\/ ÿ --~~ ÿ ÿ ÿ ÿ ÿ~-- \ ÿ ÿ ÿ ÿx ÿ
* ÿ \ ÿ ÿ ÿ\-~ ÿ ÿ ÿ ÿ ÿ ÿ ÿ ÿ ÿ~-\ ÿ ÿ ÿ ÿ*
g ÿ ÿ\ ÿ ÿ \ ÿ ÿ ÿ ÿ.--------.___\ ÿ ÿ ÿg
o ÿ ÿ ÿ\ ÿ ÿ \// ((> ÿ\ ÿ ÿ ÿo
a ÿ ÿ ÿ \ ÿ . ÿC ) ÿ ((> ÿ ÿ/ ÿ ÿa
t ÿ ÿ ÿ /\ ÿ C )/ ÿ ÿ ÿ\ (> ÿ/ ÿ ÿ t
s ÿ ÿ ÿ/ /\ ÿ C) ÿ ÿ ÿ ÿ(> ÿ / ÿ\ ÿ ÿs
e ÿ ÿ ÿ ( ÿ C__)\___/ ÿ// _/ / ÿ ÿ \ ÿ e
x ÿ ÿ ÿ ÿ\ ÿ ÿ \\// (/ ÿ ÿ ÿ ÿx
* ÿ ÿ \ ÿ ÿ\) ÿ `---- ÿ --' ÿ ÿ ÿ ÿ ÿ ÿ*
g ÿ ÿ ÿ\ ÿ ÿ ÿ ÿ ÿ\ ÿ ÿ ÿ / ÿ ÿ ÿ ÿ ÿ/ g
o ÿ ÿ ÿ ÿ ÿ ÿ ÿ/ ÿ ÿ ÿ ÿ ÿ\ ÿ ÿ ÿ ÿ ÿ ÿ o
a ÿ ÿ ÿ ÿ ÿ ÿ ÿ ÿ ÿ/ ÿ ÿ ÿ \ \ ÿ ÿ ÿ ÿ ÿ a
t ÿ ÿ ÿ ÿ ÿ ÿ/ / ÿ ÿ ÿ ÿ ÿ ÿ ÿ\ ÿ ÿ ÿ ÿ ÿ t
s ÿ ÿ ÿ ÿ ÿ / / ÿ ÿ ÿ\/\/ ÿ ÿ ÿ ÿ ÿ ÿ ÿs
e ÿ ÿ ÿ ÿ ÿ / ÿ ÿ ÿ ÿ ÿ ÿ ÿ ÿ ÿ ÿ ÿ ÿ ÿ e
x ÿ ÿ ÿ ÿ ÿ ÿ ÿ ÿ ÿ ÿ ÿ ÿ ÿ ÿ ÿ ÿ ÿ ÿ ÿ x
* g o a t s e x * g o a t s e x * g o a t s e x *

Re:The G Factor (-1)

Big_Ass_Spork (446856) | more than 12 years ago | (#2811593)

* g o a t s e x * g o a t s e x * g o a t s e x *
g g
o / \ \ / \ o
a \ a
t `. : t
s` \ s
e \ / / \\\ -- \\ : e
x \ \/ --~~ ~-- \ x
* \ \-~ ~-\ *
g \ \ .--------.___\ g
o \ \// ((> \ o
a \ . C ) ((> / a
t /\ C )/ \ (> / t
s / /\ C) (> / \ s
e ( C__)\___/ // _/ / \ e
x \ \\// (/ x
* \ \) `---- --' *
g \ \ / / g
o / \ o
a / \ \ a
t / / \ t
s / / \/\/ s
e / e
x x
* g o a t s e x * g o a t s e x * g o a t s e x *

Dave Thomas, founder of Wendy's, dead at 69 (-1)

WeatherTroll (529760) | more than 12 years ago | (#2811433)

I just heard some sad news on talk radio - Dave Thomas was found dead in his home this morning. There weren't any more details. I'm sure everyone in the Slashdot community will miss him - even if you never ate at Wendy's, there's no denying his contributions to American culture. Truly a fast food icon.

Feline poop (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2811434)

Fuck you, all of you motherfucking LambdaMOOers! Piss on you all!

Re:Feline poop (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2811481)

Ahh, drunken frat boys. There ain't nothin' better.

FP (-1, Offtopic)

gimple (152864) | more than 12 years ago | (#2811435)

For Profit, Formally Profitable, First Post

First Barenaked Ladies Post (-1)

beee (98582) | more than 12 years ago | (#2811436)

I LOVE YOU STEVEN PAGE!

Only 10 apps matter... (-1, Offtopic)

GuyZero (303599) | more than 12 years ago | (#2811448)

This is why most Slashdot readers live so well without Windows... they don't run one of those 10 apps (Word, Powerpoint, Quicken, etc).

Re:Only 10 apps matter... (0)

newton34 (542785) | more than 12 years ago | (#2811498)

what is the replacements to those 10 amps I tried staroffice and it wasn't cabibly of the amount of data I need to push around. Yet I want an application that I will be able to use it on a stable desktop. I Use Litestep and it is free to download and program For.

Key Words at End of Article (5, Insightful)

medcalf (68293) | more than 12 years ago | (#2811459)

"More choice is always better than less."

$100 (1)

tenman (247215) | more than 12 years ago | (#2811461)

it's impressive that a company (other than microsoft) can come to market with an operating system for this cost. It would seem like the product would be more expensive when you had to support it.

Re:$100 (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2811515)

Does really seem all that impressive. I mean I'll throw WINE and Redhat on a disc and sell it for $5 and undercut them by $95!

Re:$100 (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2811558)

yeah, but you don't have to support redhat and wine... and they both need a LOT of support

Re:$100 (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2811589)

The $100 figure is meaningless.

Go to your local computer store and find out what a new (not upgrade) retail (not OEM) copy of windows costs. It's sure not $100.

Then look at the price of a new (not upgrade) copy of MacOS, Solaris, BeOS (well, what it used to cost), or any PC OS.

Besides, how much can it cost to package linux, KDE + windows theme + wine? I bet they spent more time writing press releases than coding anything new.

Interdev under Linux (2, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2811462)

I get paid to write ASP pages.. there is no changing that to PHP, JSP or any other non-M$ platform. With that said, if I could run Interdev under Linux, then I would never have need for Windows again. If Lindows can do that for me, then I'll give it a shot.

Re:Interdev under Linux (3, Informative)

tenman (247215) | more than 12 years ago | (#2811540)

I understand your dependence on Interdev. Trust me I know what it is to not be able to remember all the function names. But There are up and coming IDE's that will be able to keep up with the features of Interdev. I understand that ximian is producing a .NET system for the linux systems, and ChilliSoft has had it possable to run ASP pages on linux for years now.
Microsoft coddles you, and while i'm not saying that is a bad thing, it does make you that much more dependent on them.
I used to get paid to write ASP pages. I use to use interdev, and the whole VStudio. Now I write my pages in Java, I use Eclipse, and I don't have to worry about nimda. Tomarrow, I'll be able to do the same on Lindows

Re:Interdev under Linux (1)

destiney (149922) | more than 12 years ago | (#2811618)

I write php scripts, I use vi.

Re:Interdev under Linux (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2811619)

use JSP... vb sucks. C# is crap

Re:Interdev under Linux (2, Informative)

IIOIOOIOO (517375) | more than 12 years ago | (#2811548)

That's funny, most ASP developers don't use Interdev. In fact, I too develop ASP pages for Win2k servers. All that work is done from a linux platform, and the guys here who use Windows boxes are just using TextPad, Dreamweaver, Homesite or some other non-intrusive text editor. Give it a try sometime. It's not like Interdev's data environments are really that much of a benefit...

Re:Interdev under Linux (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2811620)

Ever heard of a text editor? You use Interdev?!?!?! It's the most god-awful development tool I've *EVER* seen.

I can't believe this was marked as "+3 Interesting"......

Re:Interdev under Linux (0)

VALinux (449801) | more than 12 years ago | (#2811646)

Umm, I get paid to write VBScript ASPs too. I write them in a god damn text editor. Therefore, if I were interested in running Linux, I would still write them in a text editor. IDEs are for wussies. If you consider yourself an ASP professional after using InterDev and clicking and dragging some controls, you're sorely mistaken. If you can't live without InterDev, then you don't know jack.

Re:Interdev under Linux (2, Insightful)

Denito (196701) | more than 12 years ago | (#2811655)

Huh?

you can write ASP scripts in any old text editor. I use Homesite on the PC, but I'm sure there are very nice text editors on Linux.

Just cuz your dev SERVER is microsoft, it doesn't mean you have to write your code from interdev!

-Dennis

I'll believe it when I see it (2)

restive (542491) | more than 12 years ago | (#2811472)

With all of the current "interoperability" software available (wine etc.), I'm not convinced someone can throw together something THIS good in the time frame they seem to have done it in, but I will keep an eye on it.

... (2, Insightful)

danielrose (460523) | more than 12 years ago | (#2811483)

Mmmm. Seems to me it would be easier to write new versions of these "10 Major programs" for linux rather than reverse engineer every Windows API. It will probably end up flaky as hell.

That's if this whole thing isn't vapor..

Flakey (1)

Catskul (323619) | more than 12 years ago | (#2811583)

Even if it is not flakey now, It will be easy Microsoft to change upcoming versions of Office software to make sure it will be flakey on the newer versions. This seems like a good jabbing point for MS to quash this quickley. Hopefully there are alot of people that are only dependent on Windows for a single application that needs not be upgraded.

The big picture. (1)

bwhaley (410361) | more than 12 years ago | (#2811622)

It may be easier to rewrite "10 Major programs." However, what happens when 10 becomes 11, which becomes 20, and onward? Why not run EVERY (or most) Windows programs and support all future ones instead of doing just a few rewrites? It makes much more sense in the long run. I think Lindows sounds like a good idea.

$100? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2811485)

$100? What would he have to distrubute free under the GNU? At that price he won't see many windows users switching over, as XP lame edition costs about that.

Is this legal? (3, Interesting)

squiggleslash (241428) | more than 12 years ago | (#2811486)

Apparently some parts of the OS will be proprietry, but the OS will include the Linux kernel and be reliant on it presumably, unless they intend to provide FreeBSD running in Linux kernel emulation mode with it.

Is this (serious question) a GPL violation? If Apple can't make BASH the MacOS X command line shell (apparently they asked, RMS said no, that would be a violation), how can Lindows make Linux the kernel?

Re:Is this legal? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2811501)

"I will make it legal" -- Senator Palpatine.

Re:Is this legal? (3, Informative)

danielrose (460523) | more than 12 years ago | (#2811505)

No, it is not a violation of the GPL. They could provide it as a patch, or pre-compiled kernel modules.

IIRC the GPL says nothing about if your software "depends" on a GPL'd piece. If your software is integrated (ie. same code type deal) you are in trouble.

Re:Is this legal? (5, Informative)

bconway (63464) | more than 12 years ago | (#2811520)

I'm not sure where you're getting your information, but only changes to GPL sofware need to be released. They can do whatever they want with Wine (not GPL), and if they made any kernel changes they will be released. I dunno who told you that about bash, but it's incorrect, RMS has no say in who uses or packages bash as long as no changes are made or those changes are released. Something being reliant or using GPL software means absolutely nothing in regards to the GPL.

Re:Is this legal? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2811539)

BeOS had bash as the command-line shell.

vmware does it (4, Informative)

yerricde (125198) | more than 12 years ago | (#2811551)

Is [creating a Linux kernel module] a GPL violation?

No. Linus has allowed binary-only modules into the kernel provided they communicate with the kernel using well-defined APIs. For instance, the vmware package includes a binary-only kernel module.

If Apple can't make BASH the MacOS X command line shell (apparently they asked, RMS said no, that would be a violation)

I don't see how it would be a violation under the "mere aggregation" clause of the GPL. [everything2.com]

Re:vmware does it (2, Interesting)

squiggleslash (241428) | more than 12 years ago | (#2811671)

Is [creating a Linux kernel module] a GPL violation?
No.
Maybe, but that wasn't my question was it? Lindows is an entire operating system, not a LKM.
I don't see how it would be a violation under the "mere aggregation" clause of the GPL.
Because it's not a mere aggregation. A mere aggregation is where you bundle several unrelated things together. In this case, Lindows is reliant on a GPL'd unit, the Kernel (and presumably GNU tools, again assuming they haven't rewritten the rest of the system). That's not "mere aggregation".

Re:Is this legal? (1)

diverman (55324) | more than 12 years ago | (#2811660)

I don't think it's a violation. It's also opposite the bash/OSX thing... license application in the other direction.

As for bash on OS X, personally, I really like the way Apple put together the aliasing and tab expansion intellegence into tcsh. Although it does make things annoying once in a while, it's really nice for it to know that I only want directories to be expanded when I have typed cd as the command, and lots more stuff like that.

-Alex

GPL - Intellectual Theft (In Memory of Egg Troll!) (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2811685)

Hello,

Consulting for several large companies, I'd always done my work on Windows. Recently however, a top online investment firm asked us to do some work using Linux. The concept of having access to source code was very appealing to us, as we'd be able to modify the kernel to meet our exacting standards which we're unable to do with Microsoft's products.

Although we met several technical challenges along the way (specifically, Linux's lack of Token Ring support and the fact that we were unable to defrag its ext2 file system), all in all the process went smoothly. Everyone was very pleased with Linux, and we were considering using it for a great deal of future internal projects.

So you can imagine our suprise when we were informed by a lawyer that we would be required to publish our source code for others to use. It was brought to our attention that Linux is copyrighted under something called the GPL, or the Gnu Protective License. Part of this license states that any changes to the kernel are to be made freely available. Unfortunately for us, this meant that the great deal of time and money we spent "touching up" Linux to work for this investment firm would now be available at no cost to our competitors.

Furthermore, after reviewing this GPL our lawyers advised us that any products compiled with GPL'ed tools - such as gcc - would also have to its source code released. This was simply unacceptable.

Although we had planned for no one outside of this company to ever use, let alone see the source code, we were now put in a difficult position. We could either give away our hard work, or come up with another solution. Although it was tought to do, there really was no option: We had to rewrite the code, from scratch, for Windows 2000.

I think the biggest thing keeping Linux from being truly competitive with Microsoft is this GPL. Its draconian requirements virtually guarentee that no business will ever be able to use it. After my experience with Linux, I won't be recommending it to any of my associates. I may reconsider if Linux switches its license to something a little more fair, such as Microsoft's "Shared Source". Until then its attempts to socialize the software market will insure it remains only a bit player.

Thank you for your time.

Re:Is this legal? (3, Informative)

inerte (452992) | more than 12 years ago | (#2811686)

That would depend [gnu.org] of what libraries they are using and what licenses these licenses are released.

And later (if you clicked on the link) you can read:

"I just found out that a company has a copy of a GPL'ed program, and it costs money to get it. Aren't they violating the GPL by not making it available on the Internet?

No. The GPL does not require anyone to use the Internet for distribution. It also does not require anyone in particular to redistribute the program. And (outside of one special case), even if someone does decide to redistribute the program sometimes, the GPL doesn't say he has to distribute a copy to you in particular, or any other person in particular.

What the GPL requires is that he must have the freedom to distribute a copy to you if he wishes to. Once the copyright holder does distribute a copy program to someone, that someone can then redistribute the program to you, or to anyone else, as he sees fit."


So basically... there are several cases:

1) They do not break the GPL and make a true software without using or modifying libraries (could happen, depending on the licenses);

2) They break the GPL, and don't release the source code to anyone outside Lindows.com, so:

a) Without the sources, might be more difficult to know what library they used/modified;

3) The text that I copied and pasted from gnu.org applies. They can modify GPL and do NOT release the sources. "What the GPL requires is that he must have the freedom to distribute a copy to you if he wishes to". Just don't wish :-)

Many more possible cases, but I just pointed a few more likely to happen. Anyway, the usual IANAL surrounds my comment :-)

Why in gods name (2, Flamebait)

CDWert (450988) | more than 12 years ago | (#2811489)

Why in gods name would someone buy this at $100 a crack ????? It isnt gooing to be ANYWHERE (Windows isnt stable you say, Ok , whatever but for running Windows apps youre going to tell me a hacked emulator is)near as stable for windows apps as windows, and the Linux stuff is going to get dragged down by bloating everything to the moon for compatibilty ???

Hell now that courts have ruled its legal to resell throw a copy of Win98 under VMWare, at least there I can run all kinds of fun stuff.

At $100 a crack I cold buy a copy of whatever windows version I wanted, you mean to tell me I should buy this monstrosity because BillG isnt getting my money ?

This seems to me (I am a 30% Windows user 70% Linux user) te be the single stupidest approach for either system.

Re:Why in gods name (2, Interesting)

CatherineCornelius (543166) | more than 12 years ago | (#2811594)

Why in gods name would someone buy this at $100 a crack ?????

That, as they say, is a very good question.

It isnt gooing to be ANYWHERE (Windows isnt stable you say, Ok , whatever but for running Windows apps youre going to tell me a hacked emulator is) near as stable for windows apps as windows,

A key stability issue with Windows is the kernel--if you run under a Linux or BSD/Mach/whatever kernel then a wobbly bit of software isn't going to cream it a la BSOD. And if the basic IP services and whatnot are on top of the thing like in UNIX then you don't have that "now reboot your computer" nonsense.

and the Linux stuff is going to get dragged down by bloating everything to the moon for compatibilty ???

You mean like with Gnome/KDE/Evolution Mozilla? Run mutt and lynx! :)

Re:Why in gods name (2)

tenman (247215) | more than 12 years ago | (#2811641)

Agree...

But this product isn't about you. It's about Joe who just opened an insurance company in Idaho.

It's not going to try to be linux. It's going to try to be 'Not Windows'. The buzz will carry around the bix world that there is a new linux that works 'just' like microsoft. And while they are wrong, companies start to venture away from thier unatable, yet reliable windows installs.

Does that make sence? Lindow target market is not hackers, crackers, UNIX Sys Admins, or Kernel development. I hope that clears it up a little you seemed angry about it.

You do not see the alternatives (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2811732)

There is no doubt that Lindows will show up on the budding Linux warez market. As more users migrate to Linux and discover that WINE is still alpha-level software, they will want a program that runs all their Windows appz, for free.

Many Linux warez groups already offer appz such as Mandrake Gaming Edition, WineX, all of Loki's games, Corel WordPerfect, and all major distros. There is no doubt that as soon as Lindows is released, it'll be uploaded to all Linux warez sites in the next 24 hours and be massively pirated.

So, why pay $100 for yet another Windows emulation attempt? The FSF^WLinux warez community needs your support.

Interesting work, from a technical aspect (5, Interesting)

Marx_Mrvelous (532372) | more than 12 years ago | (#2811491)

From the info in the article, it seems that they are either erverse-engineering the Windows APIs, or mimicking the functionality with their own code. This is a time-consuming task.

Also, they said they are focusing on only 10 or so applications. They list Work, Excel, etc. But what about future revisions of these programs? I wonder if Ms would purposefully change them to break under Lindows, which Lindows would have to change to accomodate.

So will this become a perpetual 'chasing' game, trying to catch up to Microsoft?

Re:Interesting work, from a technical aspect (2)

Chris Burke (6130) | more than 12 years ago | (#2811665)

Of course it's a perpetual chasing game... Wine has been playing the same game for years, Lindows is just new.

honestly, $comment =~ s/Lindows/Wine/g; and you get a comment I've seen more or less verbatim on a dozen /. articles before.

To summarize for the future: Yes, MS will try to screw with people that threaten their monopoly in any way.

Re:Interesting work, from a technical aspect (2)

Quarters (18322) | more than 12 years ago | (#2811700)

It specifically states in the article that Lindows is being developed to help combat the constant upgrade cycle that MS tends to push with it's products. They're targetting Lindows at corporations with a large inventory of slightly older computers. Take those, put Lindows on them, get the current version of Office, and be done with it. So, does it really matter if future versions of Word don't run on it? Maybe in time, but not immediately.

Re:Interesting work, from a technical aspect (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2811731)

More importantly, you're going to be paying $100 for Lindows, and still paying Microsoft for Word, Excel, and everything else. So, end the end you save about $100, if that, and the first time someone sends you a file from Word_XP_2002, you're screwed anyway, because Lindows isn't going to support that yet, and it'll be a "new" file format.

Dut

Re:Interesting work, from a technical aspect (1)

anpe (217106) | more than 12 years ago | (#2811735)

I wonder if Ms would purposefully change them to break under Lindows

Sure. And this has already happened several times. A sample quote from here [wired.com] :

Caldera claims that Microsoft intentionally kept Windows 3.1 from working with DR-DOS in order to fend off the competing operating system.

The anti-microsoft trial revealed that such practices were common.

I know where my money's going (3, Interesting)

the_radix (454343) | more than 12 years ago | (#2811496)

He ran several Microsoft Office applications on his IBM ThinkPad, though some functions of those programs still aren't working properly under Lindows. They'll come in time, he says.

So, instead of paying $100 for a Windows upgrade that crashes occasionally, but runs everything, we can pay $100 for an OS that crashes occasionally and can't run everything.

Re:I know where my money's going (0)

Tasty Beef Jerky (543576) | more than 12 years ago | (#2811509)

But it's Linux, so it's a good thing. Quit thinking differently or you'll get bitchslapped.

Re:I know where my money's going (1)

quan74 (451034) | more than 12 years ago | (#2811699)

"He ran several Microsoft Office applications on his IBM ThinkPad, though some functions of those programs still aren't working properly under Lindows. They'll come in time, he says."

This reminds me of about a year ago when I tried running MS Word under codeweavers WINE, I could open and edit, even print documents, there was only one drawback....I couldn't save them :P

missing the point (3, Interesting)

_UnderTow_ (86073) | more than 12 years ago | (#2811502)

I know I can't speak for anyone else here, but for me the attraction of using Linux is not having to worry AT ALL about licenseing issues. If I have to worry about how many licenses is have I might as well use windows, then the windows apps I might be using will work (as well as they can).

Re:missing the point (0)

KenSentMe (528496) | more than 12 years ago | (#2811556)

I definitely agree with that. If there's one thing I would give Microsoft credit for, it would be their UI. I never did understand why companies such as RedHat are trying to push so hard for Linux on the desktop. I believe the easier something is to use, the less customizable it is in the longrun. I say leave Windows on the desktop. Who cares. But companies should be pushing Linux onto servers. That is where it excels. Kudos to IBM. Yet still, I will never use Microsoft on my desktop unless it's to play a game that only runs under Windows.

Why would you do such a thing? (1)

1155 (538047) | more than 12 years ago | (#2811510)

I mean, it is cool to put it together and all, but why would you pay 100 dollars for it? Isn't the complaint of most linux users that:

a) Windows is unstable. Period.

B) That pricing is enormously high.

Just wanted to state the obvious.

Re:Why would you do such a thing? (1)

zangdesign (462534) | more than 12 years ago | (#2811651)

$100 is not enormously high for a commercial operating system provided that the support is decent and the company is responsive to customer feedback. That being said, I'd still rather run Windows and potentially have access to thousands of commercial packages rather than just ten or so.

ok, great. it runs windows apps. but the cost? (3, Interesting)

garcia (6573) | more than 12 years ago | (#2811511)

Honestly this is a fine achievement if it does what it says. But for $100? To run on slow machines so that companies don't have to upgrade their hardware?

Come on.

Unless it supports things like USB for devices Linux doesn't already support, etc. I really don't see this being a viable competitor.

My main beef w/Linux at this point is that I can't sync my Casiopeia via USB cradle (I have to use the serial keyboard "cradle") which is slow and painful.

My god damn parallel printer (HP 960c) is not very well supported and making a /etc/printcap entry w/printtool is not helping (even w/the drivers from the HP sourceforge page).

If Lindows will solve those problems for me I would be less weary... For $100 though? I will suffer w/my serial cradle and using WP8 (which works w/the printer just fine).

Just my worthless .02

Re:ok, great. it runs windows apps. but the cost? (1)

quan74 (451034) | more than 12 years ago | (#2811673)

(slightly OT)My HP960 works great in linux using the HP drivers and CUPS.

Damn, I've been busy today... (-1)

CmderTaco (533794) | more than 12 years ago | (#2811517)

It's cutting into my troll time...
[goatse.cx]
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Screenshots (4, Interesting)

jwilhelm (238084) | more than 12 years ago | (#2811518)

There are two screenshots of Lindows in use here:

http://www.lindows.com/lindows_products_screensh ot s.php

It looks impressive to me (so far).

Think Lindows isn't 'real'? (3, Interesting)

Havokmon (89874) | more than 12 years ago | (#2811522)

If it weren't for the freaking regressions happening in Wine, I would be running 100% in Linux right now.

The current WWN [winehq.com] is convering the progress for some new testing tools for Wine..
But what if Lindows.com already HAD those tools? They could have fixed those regressions already, and boom, you have a 'more complete' Wine.

I don't think LindowsOS running Win32 apps is all that impossible. All the parts are already there, they're just not all working at the same time.

Who's going to switch!? (4, Insightful)

grahamsz (150076) | more than 12 years ago | (#2811527)

Home users are unlikely to - most of them stick with the windows that came preinstalled & M$'s oem pricing is sufficiently good that i cant see system manufacturers changing. Not to mention all those clauses that stop them shipping non-ms OS's. After all lindows is unlikely to run games or edutainment software well.

The business community are unlikely to - why would a sysadmin decide to put his neck on the line switching 5000 systems to lindows. When one critical application doesn't work as it's meant to, it all come crashing down around him. Most sysadmins will just stick to windows even if it does cost more.

The geek community are unlikely to. For the past five years i've kept a linux machine and a windows machine and will soon be readding a mac to that collection. Bluntly windows rocks for games and multimedia - whilst i'd love to do these on linux the support just isn't there. I'll keep my linux pure and gpl'd thank you very much.

The education community might. Although schools tend to avoid anything that they dont know since they dont tend to have a dedicated sys admin to set things up (and in the uk most schools pay sooo far over the odds for computers that the price difference wouldn't care).

Universities and Colleges might jump, since art students will be able to stick with word and it of course gives tech students unix as well. However most uni's at least have some linux workstations, or windows machines with exceed and big linux servers.

Quite honestly i dont see the market for it. Although if they go bust i really hope they open their code to wine.

Ultimately microsofts approach to this problem will be obvious:

Windows costs $W
Lindows costs $L
Office costs $O

Simply create a new bundle which includes Windows and Office at a price less than $O+$L.

Management... (3, Insightful)

Tom7 (102298) | more than 12 years ago | (#2811582)

> The business community are unlikely to - why would
> a sysadmin decide to put his neck on the line
> switching 5000 systems to lindows. When one
> critical application doesn't work as it's meant
> to, it all come crashing down around him. Most
> sysadmins will just stick to windows even if it
> does cost more.

I doubt that a sysadmin would switch of his own volition (unless it was a small shop), but often these kinds of decisions are made by management. They do care about the cost of software, and if Lindows.com can market it well, they might go for it.

I agree that it will be a tough sell, though. Let's hope that the Wine project can get a lot of good code out of it...

Re:Who's going to switch!? (5, Funny)

Quarters (18322) | more than 12 years ago | (#2811734)

...since art students will be able to stick with word...

Yeah. When I took computer graphics in college we only ever used Word. We did entire 30 minute CGI mpg movies in Word. It rocked. Photoshop, 3ds max, Maya, Lightwave, AutoCAD, DeBabelizer, Premiere, and After Effects are for pussies!

hehe... how true (3, Funny)

2Bits (167227) | more than 12 years ago | (#2811528)

... get off the Microsoft upgrade treadmill, ...


I always love this metaphore. And how true that describes the situation of Microsoft's customers. You keep on putting in more efforts, keep on running, but you are going nowhere.

Great Idea, Flawed Execution (3, Insightful)

futuresheep (531366) | more than 12 years ago | (#2811536)

I think this is a great idea, but the execution is flawed. I can pay less for VMWare or Win4Lin and get access to all the applications that Lindows allows, plus some that it won't. I also don't care for the fact that not only will the final product cost $100.00, but the 'preview' will as well, at least according to their website.

WINE, anyone? (2, Insightful)

dogas (312359) | more than 12 years ago | (#2811546)

I still can't believe that these guys can race ahead of the WINE developers when it comes to running windows apps in linux. It seems to me (and this has been posted before) that they're probably using some sort of wine-related or vmware-related tool to get the job done. It also makes me think of these points:

for $100, I could get MS windows and run it natively.

for FREE, I could download mandrake linux and run windows apps through wine or VMware.

What does lindows have to offer that the above don't? NOTHING.

Approach reminiscent of Transgaming (3, Interesting)

Eloquence (144160) | more than 12 years ago | (#2811552)

Lindows seems to follow an approach similar to that of Transgaming [transgaming.com] : Get a few Win32 apps to work well and ignore the rest. (Contrary to Transgaming, however, Lindows appears to be proprietary with no intention to ever change that.) Whether this approach is really sufficient is doubtful: If private users can't run Fooster to trade MP3s and cannot play their favorite games, and commercial users can't run their in-house VB/Access stuff, they might quickly want to get rid of Lindows (which will probably change its name sooner or later). $100 also appears to be too expensive to just try it out to see if you can live without Windows. One of the advantages of Linux has always been that PC magazines could bundle it, and that you could download it from various websites.

There may still be a Linux market for Lindows' extensions to WINE or whatever they're building on, though. There are certainly worse ways to burn VC.

Screw Lindows... (1)

SkewlD00d (314017) | more than 12 years ago | (#2811555)

Ever heard of Wine??? Let's see, free or $100? Btw, aren't Lindows/Wine incompatible with the whole GNU/Linux movement?!?!?!?!?

Microshit Windows 2002 Pro XP Ultra Gold, for a mainstream OS that might work for six months.

Petros? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2811562)

Has anyone tried the new release of Petros [petros-project.com] ? Does it work?

IMPORTANT WARNING: Avoid CmdrTaco's "special taco" (-1)

WeatherTroll (529760) | more than 12 years ago | (#2811566)

This is an important warning to all slashdotters. CmdrTaco has been luring people (mainly underage males) into the slashdot compound to eat his "special taco".

You may be wondering what CmdrTaco's "special taco" is. You will be wishing that you hadn't been wondering after you finish reading his post. To make his "special taco", CmdrTaco takes a taco shell and shits on it. He then adds lettuce, takes out his tiny withered dick (otherwise known as his "Commander"), puts his "special taco sauce" on it which means he jacks off on the taco, and adds a compound to make the person who eats the taco unconcious. Of course, the compound does not make the person unconcous until the taco is fully eaten. Thus CmdrTaco force feeds the taco to the unsuspecting victim. After all, who would knowingly eat shit and CmdrTaco's jizz.

After the victim is unconcous, he is held against his will and used for CmdrTaco's nefarious homosexual purposes. This includes shoving taco shells up the victim's ass, taco snotting, and getting JonKatz involved. Trust me, you do not want JonKatz anywhere near your unconcious body. Also, rumor has it CmdrTaco is looking for a new goatse.cx guy. Don't let it be you!!!!!

The last thing you may be wondering is how this goes along with "taco snotting", or what "taco snotting" is. George WIPO Bush and The WIPO Troll have been doing considerable work explaining what "taco snotting" is. Please see his FAQ on "taco snotting" which can be found as a -1 rated comment on most slashdot stories.

Please, if CmdrTaco offers you his "special taco", RUN LIKE HELL!!!!!!!!

$100 is to much (1)

luugi (150586) | more than 12 years ago | (#2811572)

The price is way too for something that will run only a handfull of Windows software.

On top of that I'm sure Microsoft will find another reason to sue Lindows. Even better they might change future updates in a way that Lindows won't be able to emulate.

Big benefit of Lindows? (2, Insightful)

Geeyzus (99967) | more than 12 years ago | (#2811574)

So what is the big benefit of using Lindows? (Assuming it is not vaporware.)

- Not having to dual-boot?
- Price?
- Just to screw over Micro$oft?

You can get Windows cheap [directdeals.com] at several places. At the previous link Windows 2000 and Windows XP (both full version, OEM) are under $150.

As much as you may hate Windows, chances are good that Windows-based software is going to run better on Windows than Lindows. Why spend $100 on Lindows when you can get the real deal for a few bucks more?

Re:Big benefit of Lindows? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2811596)

I don't care if Microsoft gave me money to run windows I still wouldn't do it.

The Chaos (2, Funny)

jjares (141954) | more than 12 years ago | (#2811577)

The thing that always worried me the most about widespread linux, is hackers. With windows (safe for XP) script kiddies can DoS a machine, but they cant r00t it. Linux has some security issues, and the common user wont be upgrading and patching every time a security issue is found. Running Office applications on Linux doesn't make a user a Linux user. Imagine a world where a script kiddie can ssh to thousands of home users boxes. DDoS has suddenly a new meaning.

linblows... (2, Informative)

Adrian Voinea (216087) | more than 12 years ago | (#2811579)

I know I'm going to be modded down to oblivion, but here goes nothin'...
Everything I've heard up until now has convinced me that Lindows is for sure a modified version of Wine, with some eye candy added and all this backed up by a team of PR goons.Also, not releasing the source speaks for itself...
Up until now, Lindows seemed like a good candidate for SatireWire's vaporware list, but they might have something to show after all.
Also, the price is unbelievable! Who would pay to run buggy microsoft software on an (almost certainly)buggy emulator? I'd rather buy a windows license:)
The bottom line is: instead of trying to emulate windows, try to help developing native linux applications. Like Staroffice and Gimp for starters.

Windows vs. Lindows (2)

Capt_Troy (60831) | more than 12 years ago | (#2811591)

Robertson is also back in court. This time Microsoft has launched the lawyers, claiming that the name ``Lindows'' might be confused with Windows and thereby violate Microsoft's trademark.

Robertson has one word for the claim: ``absurd.''

There are thousands of computer-related products with ``Windows'' in their names, he says. Yet Microsoft has left those products unmolested.


Come on, Lindows, Windows. They are obviously trying to use the Windows name to generate intrest (and the lawsuit as well). While I don't think MS can make him change it, I do think there's not much point in denying that the name is purposly similar.

And 1000s of applications with the name "windows"??? I can't think of any, help me out??

TRoy

Re:Windows vs. Lindows (1)

tweakt (325224) | more than 12 years ago | (#2811657)

*cough* XWindows ?

Re:Windows vs. Lindows (1)

DirkGently (32794) | more than 12 years ago | (#2811719)

ah, but XWindows predates that Microsoft thing by a few good years...

Re:Windows vs. Lindows (2)

Capt_Troy (60831) | more than 12 years ago | (#2811741)

Yea, but I think it's officially called Xfree86 and XWindows is a generic term. But let's count that anyway, thats 1.

Well (1)

G00F (241765) | more than 12 years ago | (#2811721)

I beleave it was determined in a court of law that generic words like that can not be "owned".

Like file manager, windows, folder.

This was years ago, and I really don't remember to much of it.

Trademark problems and pretty ones (2, Interesting)

yerricde (125198) | more than 12 years ago | (#2811598)

If Microsoft wants to get the maker of "Lindows" for infringing on the WINDOWS® trademark [slashdot.org] , the maker of "Lindows" can change the name to the Spanish word "Lindos" (meaning "pretty ones") which carries connotations of both Windows and DOS.

Manager (1)

JohnHegarty (453016) | more than 12 years ago | (#2811599)

Might make it easier to explain to the manager that it cost $100 a copy , then why its free. Managers are seem to be scared of free things.

Is this a Microsoft Plot? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2811616)

Hummmmm.

1. Only screen shots I've seen are it running windows apps.
2. Appeared out of noware.

Perhaps Microsoft is mudding the waters with a modified win kernel made to look like Linux that runs windows apps well and linux apps poorly.

The lawsuite with the name is to throw everybody off the trail.

What is so big about Goatse.cx? (-1)

CmderTaco (533794) | more than 12 years ago | (#2811624)

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Why Buy this for 100 bucks? (-1)

sucko (257144) | more than 12 years ago | (#2811627)

When you could get XP Home for 100 (upgrade ver) ?
No really. Why buy this at this price? If you want to run windows apps, its best to do it on windows.

sign up to get in on the sneak preview (2, Informative)

Frag-A-Muffin (5490) | more than 12 years ago | (#2811628)

For those curious, you can sign up [lindows.com] to get the sneak preview. I'm curious enough to at least see the sneak preview before I bash away like the rest of you. I'd rather be an informed basher rather than a newbie/fanboy/hax0r kind of basher that we see so much on /. :)

This is interesting, but I wonder how practical (5, Insightful)

starseeker (141897) | more than 12 years ago | (#2811635)

This OS, despite the near magical quality of Windows and Linux applications on one system, looks to be a nitch OS even if it succeeds. Here's why.

In the article itself, the opinion is voiced that there are about 10 major applications that Windows users use. OK, granted. Unfortunately, what we are discussing here is an OS switch, and it's not that simple.

Linux users are quite accustomed to the notion of things like using 8 different IRC clients as the situation warrants. Windows users, on the other hand, quickly grow accustom to even the tiniest quirk of their default system. AOL can't change anything, even on their website, without causing some of their users to be unhappy about the difference.

The point is, if Lindows runs Office and a few other major apps well, that's enough for some businesses. But for home users, EVERYTHING must work as they expect from previous experience, or they won't even consider switching. If their bizarre little propritary note keeper doesn't work, no dice. They ain't movin.

Linux users, who you might think logically would be more interested, will be put off by the commercial nature of the project and are far more likely to wait for/help the wine project. Also, VMware and WinforLin allow people to run Windows programs. There's already compeition out there.

So the only conceivable mass market for this system is business. Great. Unfortunately, we all know how keen the vast majority of the business world is on switching to something different and untried. Especially if it involves retraining. Linux applications won't intice them much - there are other ways to get those, using cygwin, vnc, remote Xwindows connections, etc. Lindows does most of this, let's say. It does it a little better than the above solutions. But will it do ENOUGH better to justify businesses upgrading? Unlikely.

Don't get me wrong - I hope it succeeds. It's just going to have a heck of a time doing so.

Not just $100 (1)

place4linux (449886) | more than 12 years ago | (#2811636)

I noticed on the lindows web site that its not just $100 to buy a preview copy...It also costs $99 to join their 'Insider' club....

From their site:

* A $99 fee for a one year membership in the Lindows.com Insiders program and your commitment to take time to share your feedback about our plans, our products and our future direction.
* Agree to a non-disclosure agreement, keeping the program itself and those things you learn as a Lindows.com Insider confidential, just as any Lindows.com employee would.

So basically they want you to pay to be a bug finder plus pay for the product....nice deal...for them....

sign up for the sneak preview (2, Informative)

Frag-A-Muffin (5490) | more than 12 years ago | (#2811639)

Sign up [lindows.com] to see the sneak preview before you bash. Personally, I'm quite curious to see what it can do.

Re:sign up for the sneak preview (3, Informative)

Frag-A-Muffin (5490) | more than 12 years ago | (#2811663)

I forgot to mention that it'll cost you $99 for a one year membership to become a lindows.com 'insider'. Bleh .. the audacity to ask me for money before they have a product! I might have to change my mind.

My sphincter hurts from holding it open... (-1)

CmderTaco (533794) | more than 12 years ago | (#2811645)

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GPL? (2)

suwain_2 (260792) | more than 12 years ago | (#2811652)

I've never been able to find Lindows very exciting, maybe it's because I came to Linux because I didn't like Windows. So I've seen it as merging what I fled from, into my newfound (well, four years ago...) love. But I digress...

But here's my question... Is it going to be GPLed? I always thought that if you 'changed' Linux, you were obliged to GPL it. Here they come out, selling it for $100 for a single-user system? Granted, some people will probably buy this and love it. But, IMHO, a lot of Linux's success has been that you can get it free, in both terms of the word. Lindows might suck; it might rock. But I don't want to pay my $100 and hate it, so I'd spend a while talkign to other users, or maybe *cough* try someone else's copy *cough*. With Linux, you download it, or (legally) use someone else's disk, and if you don't like it, you delete it. If you end up liking Linux, you can put it on other computers too.

I think a lot of Linux's success has been due to it's license. Yeah, IMHO, Linux is incredibly stable and secure, but if people are too apprehensive to use it, none of that's going to matter to them. So, to sum up my ramblings... I think that, while $100 alone isn't all that bad (RedHat Pro is right around there, isn't it? It's GPL, but to buy the disk set and manuals and stuff...), the fact that it's "single user" is a bad move for them, in terms of attracting users. (Granted, being mentioned on Slashdot frequently may not hurt...)

Re:GPL? (1)

EllF (205050) | more than 12 years ago | (#2811720)

Check the GPL. There's no reason why you can't box and sell a distro. You are in no way obligated to offer a free download. However, under the terms of the license - which will propogate to Lindows, most likely, as I assume that they are using GPL code - they cannot stop anyone from redistributing their distro in any form that they like. Burn a copy of the CD, sell it, give it away, allow people to download it - it's up to you.

*sigh* I'd be interested to see how he plans to make a "single-user" version of the software. Unless Lindows is not released under the GPL (which would be difficult to pull off, as it could not use any GPL code in it), there's no reason why you cannot give away $0 copies.

Concerns (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2811656)


I have some serious concerns about Lindows for
several reasons:

- Wine is licensed under a BSD (X11) license -
they are not obligated to share any of their code
or contribute any of their valuable work back to
the community.

- They have an "Insider" program - for $99 you
have to sign an NDA to be able to get help, does
this smell like Microsoft?

- They don't care about releasing any details
about the product, so we'll likely get lots of
people on newgroups begging for help and not
being able to get it because of proprietary code.

Wenning the windows user away from MS (2)

3seas (184403) | more than 12 years ago | (#2811659)

What this is really about is what MS basicly points out in taking Lindows to court over the name.

Take the ten applications mentioned and given enough time the GNU/linux/GPL side of the spectrum will come up with compairable products.

All Lindows really does is help the consumer who is stuck on windows to move over to linux. The the fear of moving from a product they paid for having such and such supposed support, to linux which is not the same "paid for and supported by the manufacture" type of system.....Lindows can only help.

Anyone here who wants to argue against that (knowing full well that wine also exist to base a market test against - regarding whatever success lindows has) is exposing themselves as being a potential MS cronie

(And the MS cronie tag game is on!! Only rule, when you find an MS cronie posting distortions here - point them out as being such! - Maybe slashdot could use a forth option on the pill [friend, neutral, foe] - a blue one for MS cronie tagging.)

Are other run levels included or just single user? (2, Funny)

sludg-o (120354) | more than 12 years ago | (#2811677)

<joke>$100 for single-user mode is kinda spendy, I
wonder if init 6 costs extra? Hope not, if
it's as ustable as windows. I'm assuming run-level
3 is also available?</joke>

Lindows Applications (1)

oobeleck (313907) | more than 12 years ago | (#2811678)

I went to their website and trolled around. I couldn't find any references to what OTHER applications they run. (Besides Office)
Can anyone provides links with more info?
(i.e. Does it run Half-Life?)

Lindows is WINE: Quick Analysis (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2811679)

Look at the screenshots. It is obvious that Lindows is Wine. In the article it mentions that you can either run it alongside Windows 9x or replace Windows with Lindows. It however is supposed to maintain your settings. It uses WINE with the Windows DLLs to increase compatibility. My guess is that the "Windows Compatibility Module" is nothing more than something to bring the Windows DLLs over to Lindows. Also if you use Microsoft DLLs you might still need a Windows OS License. I really have my doubts to these being a real product. Can you install it on a machine without Windows already installed?

Why so much Slashdot resistance? (2)

conner_bw (120497) | more than 12 years ago | (#2811680)

How can this be a bad thing?

Yeah we all have our WINE pride, and $100 dollars might be too pricey...

But if this works, and someone somewhere convinces a corporation to switch their forty thousand plus employees to Lindows then this is incredible!

If you migrate all those users to Lindows, and eventually they want to upgrade... Chances are they will migrate to Red Hat, Debian, SuSE, REAL CHOICE instead of turning back to Microsoft solutions.

I'd like to try it out, for good reasons. (2, Insightful)

Dog and Pony (521538) | more than 12 years ago | (#2811689)

While $100 isn't much money, seriously, I still would like to try before I buy, hopefully there will be such an option. It should not take more than a week or so to get the feel of the system after all.

But. Considering that I more or less feel I must purchase another system, because dual-booting is ridicolous when trying to get something done, and I don't feel I have an option of choosing either system, $100 is a bargain. I won't get under $3-400 in parts I lack to put up the minimum system I need to run two, and that is if I use my old 14" monitor or get some kind of switch.

To be perfectly clear, I can't do without Windows, and I don't want to do without Linux (I don't actually need Linux, but it sure makes life easier to test certain stuff, and it is lots and lots more fun).

If it is any good, I would definetely try and get a copy at work too, because it would make my life a lot easier there too. Being able to use the corporate-specific applications (yeah, you know the ones) and a few of my own specials alongside with running in a *nix environment would certainly brighten up my day. The applications I use in Windows are few, but extremely necessary, some according to me, and some according to guys that don't know shit, but does pay me cash. Heh.

And yes, I do love open-source, it has saved the day for me countless times, but I also believe in making money, so I understand the guy. Just possibly, this could add to the flora of open-source programs out there, as more people would possibly be able to write stuff on a *nix environment. I don't feel that whether the OS costs money is that important. Consider it a part of your computer, much like memory chips or the motherboard. It is a natural part of the system, and some prefer Intel, while some prefer AMD or Motorola. What you run on it is more important in my opinion (and in this imperfect world I might add).

Anyone know what the upgrades will cost if you buy this first version?

But, but.... (1)

genkael (102983) | more than 12 years ago | (#2811693)

I can't play Diablo II on it :(

Apparently there is no Direct X support for Lindows. What a bummer. I guess one of my machines will have to remain a Windoze box.

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